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Next entry: Gadzooks! Previous entry: The invisible sinners

The Dumbest Man In Public Life, Perhaps Ever

The question of whether or not there is someone dumber than Jonah Goldberg is not really a matter of debate.  It’s more a matter of certain fact, buffeted by a gospel of buffoonery so vast and deep that the Marianas Trench is envious.

First, Jonah, playing off of a Mark Steyn post that allows us to indict entire systems based on a single outcome because it could happen to you (which is why capitalism is a failure after my friend’s combination pornography and Baby Bjorn emporium didn’t work out), leads us to this story which has been making the wingnut rounds: a man pulled out his own teeth after not being able to find an NHS dentist in Britain.  And he’s a veteran, so it’s basically like each of those teeth was aborted.

Hence I want to be very clear the following story says absolutely nothing of import about British healthcare and in no way detracts from the argument that we should emulate their system.

Unfortunately, Jonah leaves out this part:

A spokesman for NHS East Riding of Yorkshire said Mr Boynton’s case gave an ‘inaccurate scare-mongering picture of dental service provision in East Yorkshire based solely on the claims of one man’

The spokesman said: ‘As well as 34 dental practices, we have seven dental access centres across East Riding of Yorkshire, including Beverley, where Mr Boynton could access a full range of NHS dentist services.

‘So there is absolutely no reason why anyone should have to resort to pulling out their own teeth.  NHS East Riding of Yorkshire has invested around £1 million in helping dentists target new patients.  At many of our dental practices appointments are being offered to new patients within two weeks.

‘Our local out-of-hours and Accident and Emergency Services would have both been able to give Mr Boynton details of how to access emergency/urgent dental services if he had approached them.’

No system of insurance can take care of someone who won’t actually seek medical attention.  The man’s complaint is that he wasn’t able to find a single NHS dentist anywhere, except for the seven that were close to him.  This also fails to take into account that the American system, being almost entirely private, could easily result in the exact same outcome.  (And if we’re getting into how our countries take care of veterans, I’m not sure that we come out on the winning end of that skirmish, either.)

That, of course, leads into something better, because why not go full wingnut?  Were you aware that Sarah Palin is the most put-upon figure in public life…ever?

I’m getting a lot of indignant leftwing email for my statement yesterday re Palin:

“It certainly is true that nobody in public life in recent memory has been as shabbily treated as she has.”

The gist of the complaints is that some rightwingers said mean things about Hillary Clinton or Janet Reno or some such. And it’s true, some mean and unfair things were said about those folks. But I think a lot of these lefties seem oblivious to the fact that The New York Times, the news networks (minus Fox), David Letterman et al aren’t supposed to be scored as partisan outlets, but they are. And they’ve gone after Palin and her family in ways that I think are particularly egregious. Complaining about Richard Mellon Scaife’s treatment of the Clintons is perfectly fair. But comparing it to the mainstream and “respectable” assaults on Palin is not persuasive.

What’s funny is that he has nearly two decades of late-night comedians never attacking the Clintons to back him up.  I did a Lexis search; Jay Leno did one joke in the mid-90s about the balanced budget amendment, then was disappeared for a week until he came back, looking ten years younger and making obscure references to how Bob Dole was a Sandinista.  It was a strange time for us all.

Why Jonah Goldberg is so fascinating is because he is the ur-conservative: someone who advocates merit for everyone else, but achieved his own success through nepotism and ideological social promotion; someone who is incapable of debate yet is cocooned in a forum that simulates every element of debate but the reality that is supposed to govern it; someone who has written a falsely counterfactual history so odious and so damaging to our understanding of evil that only the modern American right could raise him up to the level of a public intellectual; someone who, were he anyone else’s son and in any other field of employment, would barely be able to feed himself, let alone be a millionaire pundit. 

I’ve always joked that if I ever fell on hard times, I’d undergo a sudden ideological transformation and be taken care of for life.  You don’t have to be good or smart or talented or even particularly bright to be a successful conservative, you just have to be born to the right people, have someone owe you a favor, or just fill a niche.  It renders the entire ideology of conservatism a sham, as its most successful proponents are by far its worst adherents.

 

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Posted by Jesse Taylor on 06:13 PM • (46) Comments

Jesse Taylor, brave black conservative, telling it how it is without the “African-American Studies” crowd forcing him to advocate for welfare and higher taxes and making some Ladysmith Black Mambazo song our new national anthem.

Yes, I believe a niche might just exist for you!

Comment #1: Ferox  on  07/05  at  07:10 PM

Jonah is the poster child for the evils of affirmative action.

Comment #2: DrDick  on  07/05  at  07:12 PM

And nobody said ANYTHING bad about Chelsea Clinton EVER! In fact, they had NO idea who she was!

Shorter Goldberg. “WAAAHHH!! The candidate with boobies is gone!! Maybe!? Why’d everyone have to be so MEAN?”
I wonder if he still has his Purple Heart band-aid.. oh wait that shit never happened either.

Comment #3: Danica Lefse Queen  on  07/05  at  07:16 PM

When <strike>the joke ticket</strike> McCain/Palin lost last year, I was hoping to see the figure of Sarah Palin - which I had only just met two months prior - disappear into the past.  She is a lot like a lot of American conservative women, and like it or not, we have a lot of them.  Alaska is a small place, Wasilla is even smaller.  After 8 months and resigning from office, I think its time we start ignoring her until actually does something notable.

Comment #4: Ursula  on  07/05  at  07:21 PM

I always want to play anecdote wars with these people- for every one they can find about some guy in Great Britain not getting a hip surgery, I’m sure I can find 10 stories of people dying because they can’t get health insurance (to the sum of 22,000 a year).

Comment #5: Antigone  on  07/05  at  07:22 PM

I’ve always been tempted to see if I could get myself a RenewAmerica column, just for giggles and extra dough. I figure I’ve got enough of my old Illuminati cards to be able to deal out a paranoid conspiracy column every week for months, if not years.

The only thing that really stops me is that I’d rather use a fake name to do it (why make all my friends think I’m a wingnut?) but I still want to get checks I can deposit…

Comment #6: Scott  on  07/05  at  07:33 PM

The only thing that really stops me is that I’d rather use a fake name to do it (why make all my friends think I’m a wingnut?) but I still want to get checks I can deposit…

That’s not a problem—heck, IIRC Michelle Malkin’s legal last name isn’t Malkin (she kept her maiden name, Maglalang), so it’s not like they’re not used to it.

Comment #7: Mnemosyne  on  07/05  at  07:46 PM

Best part of the dentistry story about the OMG-terrible wait times for public care?

“... Ian Boynton could not afford to go private for treatment so instead took the drastic action to remove 13 of his teeth that were giving him severe pain.”

Obviously, the solution to not being able to afford private treatment is to make private treatment the only option available.

Comment #8: jalmondale  on  07/05  at  07:48 PM

I’m not sure why Goldberg is holding this up as a horror story. Isn’t the conservative mantra that if you can’t afford it, you don’t get it (and probably don’t deserve it)? Where is the parade of blaming Boynton for not having taken better care of his teeth?

Oh, right - because they’re lying sacks of shit.

Comment #9: mythago  on  07/05  at  07:58 PM

Not only is Jonah pompously promoting a bare faced lie, he is strongly insinuating that

1) Pulling One’s own teeth is the only thing to be done if treatment isn’t free.

2) Things are better in the USA, anyone can get dental treatment, cheap, any time.

3) If we get a public medical plan it won’t cover dental.

He is beyond and below stupid and mendacious.  As for Sara"cuda”, she didn’t suffer anything like the vicious loathing and violent rhetoric Hillary Clinton was constantly buffeted with, by the “Liberal” press and the “Compassionate Conservatives”.

But Loadpants is not only a liar, he is too stupid to understand his lies are easily disproved.

I’ve known some very smart persons who had a bad tendency to talk down to others, to seem to think everyone *else* was dumb.  It is really annoying.

But having a certified liar and moron think he’s smarter than everyone, that’s…beyond galling.

Comment #10: Kwillow  on  07/05  at  09:02 PM

The question of whether or not there is someone dumber than Jonah Goldberg is not really a matter of debate.

Are we forgetting the fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth?

Comment #11: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  07/05  at  09:10 PM

That’s not a problem—heck, IIRC Michelle Malkin’s legal last name isn’t Malkin (she kept her maiden name, Maglalang), so it’s not like they’re not used to it.

She kept her last name?!? o_O. I’m SHOCKED. I thought for them only lubrul feminazis kept their last name as an affront to gawd. Who knew.

Comment #12: UltraMagnus  on  07/05  at  09:39 PM

Well, my schizophrenic uncle had an exorcism because my grandparents couldn’t afford real medical treatment.  Not only was my uncle a veteran, but it’s likely that his initial breakdown was caused by LSD experiments done in him while he was serving in the military.  All of this happened right here in the USA.  So, if we’re judging health care systems on horror stories, my anecdote wins.  Clearly our system is the worst anyway, and this just adds to it.

Comment #13: bananacat  on  07/05  at  09:56 PM

But Hillary was (is?) and evil librul who doesn’t even have a soul, much less feelings, and besides, since as a Democrat under Bush, she was by (their) definition a traitor anyway, so it was okay to say mean things about her.

But Sarah is a nice person, so people should say nice things about her. Given the questions that have already arisen, we can be sure that the media and the Republicans will be just a diligent in digging into her financial background as they were with that whole Whitewater thing, eh?

And as for Chelsea, come on, no comparison. The mean things that were said about her were about her looks, and surely she had years to get used to that, while the mean things said about the Palin kids were about something they couldn’t help, like their actual behavior. And again, no comparison, because with Chelsea, someone ELSE brought it all up, while with the Palins, their MOM brought it up and dragged them around like poster children, so the Clintons obviously had something to hide, so the abuse was justified, while since the Palins dragged it out onto the carpet, it was obviously off-limits, like Mary Cheney’s orientation.

Or something.

Comment #14: Lymis  on  07/05  at  10:41 PM

It certainly is true that nobody in public life in recent memory has been as shabbily treated as she has.

Awww, Jonah was born too late.  He’s forgetting Nixon.  Trickydick was so shabbily treated as ultimately to be run out of office*; if he wasn’t attacked through his family, it’s because he wasn’t vulnerable there.  (Something Palin might want to think about the next time she decides to make a sideshow out of her private life or to claim, implicitly or explicitly, that proven fertility equals proven morality.)

*Not that Nixon didn’t deserve to be given the boot. 

It shouldn’t have to be restated at this juncture that it was Nixon’s ouster which incubated the sense of right-wing outrage and demotion the shadow of which pursues us today, but there are some points that can’t be made too often.  IMO, Nixon ought to be remembered in conjunction with Palin because, in a way, he made her ascendancy as a major political figure thinkable.  Somehow I can’t help suspecting that if Nixon had served out his presidential term Palin would have been viewed (correctly) as too much of a non-Franklin to be run for anything serious, even in Gooper terms.  But that’s just me.

Why Jonah Goldberg is so fascinating is because he is the ur-conservative: someone who advocates merit for everyone else, but achieved his own success through nepotism and ideological social promotion; someone who is incapable of debate yet is cocooned in a forum that simulates every element of debate but the reality that is supposed to govern it; someone who has written a falsely counterfactual history so odious and so damaging to our understanding of evil that only the modern American right could raise him up to the level of a public intellectual; someone who, were he anyone else’s son and in any other field of employment, would barely be able to feed himself, let alone be a millionaire pundit.

God’s Jonah was a guy who realized that when you get swallowed by a whale, it’s because God’s mad at you.  God’s Jonah understood that life inside the gullet of a whale is properly regarded as a punishment.  God’s Jonah didn’t like life inside the whale and wanted to get out.  Lucianne’s Jonah, OTOH, is a guy who was fed to the whale by his Mom, who enjoys it in there, and who doesn’t intend to emerge.  (And why should he want to come out?  He’s fine where he is.  He’s not troubled by earthly weather and his meals are pre-digested.  Nice work if you can get it, thinks Jonah, and I have got it—-while he limbers up his fingers for his next magnum opus, “The Birkenstock Goose-Step or Bolshies Make My Mommy Mad.”)

Comment #15: bekabot  on  07/05  at  10:50 PM

Goldberg reminds me of Mr. Collins of ‘Pride & Prejudice ‘, as Lizzy put it “The stupidest man in England”.

Comment #16: Kwillow  on  07/06  at  12:13 AM

This, from, Steyn, is particularly egregious:

The difference between government health care and a private system is that, under the latter, you’re free to say, “This dump’s filthy. I’m going to the state-of-the-art joint five miles up the road.” You may have to get out your checkbook, but ultimately the decisions are yours.

My fairly strong understanding is that in Britain, if you are willing to “get out your checkbook,” you can go to a private hospital and get other kinds of private health care.  I’m not sure whether Steyn knows this, and is lying, or doesn’t know this, and is an idiot.  Thoughts?

Comment #17: jlk7e  on  07/06  at  12:44 AM

My fairly strong understanding is that in Britain, if you are willing to “get out your checkbook,” you can go to a private hospital and get other kinds of private health care.  I’m not sure whether Steyn knows this, and is lying, or doesn’t know this, and is an idiot.  Thoughts?

Lying.  He’s been in enough arguments to know his scthick is built on untruths, but he (a) gets paid to stroke his base and (b) can justify lying ‘cos it pisses off the DFHs.

Comment #18: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  07/06  at  12:48 AM

Merely being in the military, minus LSD, causes breakdowns.  So it’s more likely than some nefarious drug testing on someone.

...You know, MAJeff, I’ve read that one before.  I’d seen soo many of those movies.

Either way, sheesh, they hate the statistics when they work against them and then use random horror stories which don’t even pass the basic call-back test?

Comment #19: Crissa  on  07/06  at  02:18 AM

You know, as somebody who is American by birth, and spent the first 29 years of her life there, and has since moved to the UK and been living here for over a decade, I cannot begin to tell you how much bullshit this is. Yeah, the NHS can kinda suck sometimes, but you know what? It doesn’t even begin to rise to the level of suckitude in the US system. It’s not even close. Yes, you may get stuck on a list for non-life-threatening health issues, from time to time—although preventative care is just fine, in general—but when something utterly ghastly and catastrophic happens, it’s like a miracle occurs. That miracle being your care is immediate and awesome and you are NOT BANKRUPTED by the process. I probably sound evangelical about OMG SOCIALIZED MEDICINE to my American family & friends, but every last one of them, no matter how wingnutty, has pretty well been convinced by my glowing reports of how awesome it is to not have to worry about health care. And not one person among my British family and friends would trade the NHS for the American system.

Comment #20: Bella  on  07/06  at  03:05 AM

erm…

does Goldberg (or any conservative) understand that mayn MANY people in the US have NO access to healthcare, and even *less* access to dental care? and that dental care is *really* expensive? if you are born with good teeth and take good care of them and never have the misforturn to have them messed up some *other* way, you’re fine - but since most people aren’t born with perfect teeth…

a simple filling, if one catches the cavity early and it doesn;t go very deep, is about $100. which, realistically, is the difference between paying the rent/mortage, for a lot of people.
and gods help you if you need a root canal and a crown! thats at least a grand - and most insurances, even if they cover “dental” only cover routine maintence, and possibly 50% of a teeny amount. i have never heard of ANY insurance (save CHAMPUS, but that requires you go to a dentist on Base) that pays even 90% of everything.

so a story about a guy who “couldn’t find a dentist” is really a “dog bites man” issue - i know many people who *NEED* dental work done, but can’t afford it, and literally just suffer. (i am one of them. stupid vacomiacin, fucking my teeths up; sigh)


and - am i the only one who remember that Saturday Night Live skit about Clinton after he retired, being henpecked by his wife - and it turns out to be Monica? *that* is much more hurtful than someone saying “Palin was a Beauty Queen”...

Comment #21: denelian  on  07/06  at  03:11 AM

What’s even better is when conservatives point to English people’s ugly teeth as evidence of their horrible health system.  Of course you can’t count on wingers to acknowledge, or know, that residents of the British Isles are genetically predisposed to having terrible teeth.

Comment #22: keshmeshi  on  07/06  at  03:35 AM

I’m not at all sure about that genetic predisposition argument, keshmeshi - do you have a citation for that?

The thing about ha-ha ugly British teeth is that they are ugly teeth, not diseased teeth, and ugly by the standards of a society where cosmetic orthodontic work is commonplace. NHS dental care is free for children and pregnant women, and subsidised for everyone else - the costs can still add up, but are nothing like American prices. People will get braces if their dentist thinks it’ll have a health benefit, but if it’s cosmetic they have to pay for it privately, so most people don’t.

When I lived in the US the thing that surprised me wasn’t my friends’ perfect teeth, beautiful though they were, it was that straight white teeth were such a badge of class. As far as I could tell, poor people’s teeth were in general much worse in the US than in the UK.

Comment #23: MissPrism  on  07/06  at  05:46 AM

To be fair, dentistry is probably the worst part of the NHS, and is pretty crappy compared to other countries. It’s not free at the point of use for most people - unlike comparable treatment in other fields of health - and it can indeed be hard to find a local one. But, as has been pointed out, having NHS dentists at all is better than only having private ones. The amount you will ever have to pay for an operation is capped, and if you’re on benefits it’s free, so nobody is going to be put under real financial pressure by dental costs.

Comment #24: Ginger Yellow  on  07/06  at  06:09 AM

I find it hard to believe anyone pulled their own teeth out.  Has this story been proven?  Unless they were all hanging by a thread, in which case, it’s his own dumb fault for not going to the dentist when he first noticed a problem/change.  When even if there were a wait, it wouldn’t have been a nuisance. 

I’ve called specialists here in the states for appointments and been told the wait is three months out.  Where is our awesome super special health care system then?  Oh, and I have to pay cash for the appointment.  But at least it’s three months out, so I can save the $150-$200 they will charge me if the specialist isn’t really cool about my crappy insurance needs and doesn’t already have a cash price they charge people with shitty insurance.

I love these stories.  They make so many classist assumptions, you can get a window into the upper-crust’s life!  Imagine:  dental insurance.  Wouldn’t that be grand?  Imagine:  Being lucky enough to have never needed braces or orthodontic work or cavities filled (my parents were NUTS about tooth brushing, thank dog) and get to adulthood and watch all that good work go to SHIT because you can’t get dental insurance, the insurance you can wants to send you to the one dentist EVERYONE in town has complaints about, and you can’t pay cash. 

Fuck Goldberg and all his classist friends.  Don’t they understand that you can still be a prick with socialized insurance?  You can still pay for a single room, pay extra for all the bits that the guy who is surviving on the bare minimum can’t afford.  What a bunch of asses.

Comment #25: speedbudget  on  07/06  at  08:59 AM

I just paid $3,300 for an emergency root canal and crown.  Fortunately Delta Dental has a $40/month plan available in my state for individuals, so I used the savings gleaned by getting an energy-efficient refrigerator to buy a policy.  It won’t pay everything but it’ll be a damn sight better than spending twice what I make in a month on a single tooth.

And oh, I talked to my dentist about the lack of dental insurance…he said it’s incredibly trusting to see so many young people coming in asking him to pull teeth that can and should be saved because so few employers offer dental insurance.  It’s cheaper to have a tooth pulled than crowned, and unlike me, many of them can’t afford that extra $40….

Goldberg should try living like a normal person.  He’d bail after a week, guaranteed.

Comment #26: Ellid  on  07/06  at  08:59 AM

I agree with Jessee in part and disagree in part.  My disagreement is that Jonah doesn’t have some pretty stiff competition for dumbest human on the planet.  My agreement is that Jonah wins.

Comment #27: Magis  on  07/06  at  09:25 AM

Sorry, but Glenn Beck is the dumbest man in public life.

Comment #28: Ben D.  on  07/06  at  09:33 AM

My husband has actually resorted to pulling one of his own teeth out. (He didn’t consult me first, or I would found some way to pay for having a an actual dentist do it). He finally got dental this year, but he’s already maxed his policy out and still needs an additional root canal. The thing is, this isn’t even newsworthy here in the states.

Comment #29: wednesdayaddams  on  07/06  at  10:33 AM

I have heard of many people pulling their own teeth because they couldn’t afford a dentist, but all of those stories took place in America. And non-profits like Remote Area Medical see these folks (after they’ve waited hours in line) and do what they can to repair the damage. And I’m sure guys like Goldberg think that this charity system which comes about once a year to rural areas and only sees 4,000 of the 10,000+ people waiting in line is much better than any government health care plan could ever be.

Comment #30: DC Fem  on  07/06  at  10:34 AM

Ellid: It’s cheaper to have a tooth pulled than crowned

“Several dentists have told me that in industrial districts a person over thirty with any of his or her own teeth is coming to be an abnormality. In Wigan various people gave me their opinion that it is best to get shut of your teeth as early in life as possible. ‘Teeth is just a misery,’ one woman said to me.” (Orwell: The Road to Wigan Pier, Chapter 6)

Comment #31: inge  on  07/06  at  11:14 AM

So basically they’re complaining that they heard about a BMW that broke down once on the highway so they’re keeping the Yugo dagnabit!

Comment #32: Woodrowfan  on  07/06  at  11:19 AM

Road to Wigan Pier was of course written before the establishment of the NHS.

Comment #33: Ginger Yellow  on  07/06  at  12:54 PM

my friend’s combination pornography and Baby Bjorn emporium

Did he call it “Pjorn”?

Comment #34: FlipYrWhig  on  07/06  at  12:59 PM

Ginger Yellow: Road to Wigan Pier was of course written before the establishment of the NHS.

I suspect that situations like the one described in the book played a role in the creation of the NHS. I wonder how long it will take the US…

Comment #35: inge  on  07/06  at  01:38 PM

And the NHS dental story is relevant how? Did Obama promise us free dental care?

Comment #36: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  02:06 PM

The value of these stories is that a good system doesn’t need lies to support it.  This sort of thing is proof that we have a bad system currently.

Comment #37: Punditus Maximus  on  07/06  at  02:23 PM

Dental care at the VA. Ah, broke two teeth on bad food in the mess hall just before I got out the service.

Discharge specialist told me to go to a VA hospital and they would fix them.  Moved to San Francisco, about 15 miles from a VA hospital, they “would have to get my records”  Moved to Oregon, lived 23 miles from a VA hospital, they"would have to get my records”  moved back to SF 2 miles from VA Hospital “they shipped my records to Oregon, gotta wait.”  Moved to Denver, lived about 3 miles from a VA Hospital that “would see what they could do.”  After 4 years, I paid $500 to have my damn teeth fixed.

In 1995, I applied for medical benefits at the Phoenix VA hospital as an unemployable veteran.  They turned me down because I missed my dental appointment in San Francisco in 1977.

In 2004, I moved to Peru.  My interpreter took me to her dentist.  Xrays, consultation, xrays, consultations, numbers and then how much?  Very expensive, how much. very very expensive, HOW MUCH? $800.  Per tooth?  No, for everything.  11 to 13 crowns. 4 to 6 root canals, two split teeth in front that a dentist in Phoenix told me could be transplanted for $15000, glued together with a German technique. 

Best dentists I have had in my life.  I would recommend them to anyone.  One of my root canals was tricky because it had twisted itself into a spiral, they brought in a specialist from Lima, 900 miles on a 29 hour bus trip to do the root canal and then get back on a northbound bus for 19 hours because they had agreed to $800 to fix my teeth “guaranteed.”

The last dentist that I went to in Phoenix charged me $1200 for a botched root canal that he put a crown on after splitting the tooth.  I had to go to Arequippa to have surgery to stop the rot in my jaw.  Cost $1000+ change. 

You got tooth problems and need over $2000 american worth of work, send me an email to .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).  I’ll arrange for someone to find you a hotel for $70 per week, safe food,
and get your damn teeth fixed.  And it is cool here at this time of the year.  I don’t want to do this but one of my sisters just maxed out her dental insurance for the year with one crown.  For less out of pocket cost she could have had it fixed here and had a two week vacation in the old Inca highlands and never touched her dental insurance.

Comment #38: evil is evil  on  07/06  at  04:03 PM

kwilow re: the dumbest man on earth.

You can now locate anyone’s home address and for a fee get their unlisted telephone numbers and also their neighbors telephone numbers.  Costs about $150.

Huge american bank told me they would not straighten out my debit card without “this this and this.”  I tried explaining patiently that I am clinically insane and I can’t do this this and this.  Maxed out on Valium and went dirty.  The bank has a president.  There is a dirty server somewhere that gave me his unlisted home number.  I called and politely explained my problem to the prez’s wife and then I started screaming to get this fixed.  My email overloaded.  My phone rung off the hook.  My card started working again within half an hour. 

Insanity can be useful.

I now have a private banking representative who will “take care of absolutely any problems that I have.”  Called the prez’s wife and thanked her.  Bet they have a new number by Tuesday.

Comment #39: evil is evil  on  07/06  at  04:14 PM

evilisevil:

that is damned tempting - i *know* i need at least 2 more root canals (with crowns!) plus the two i have had done with the temp crowns…
and my bestest friend was just quoted with $10,000 as the MINIMUM amount for her dental work. it’ll probably be twice that.

but i go to the student dentists - after their 3rd year, they know how to pretty much do everything. and there are full-dentist teachers who watch everything (and for this first temp crown i got, the teacher did everything, and most of the work on the second…)
so it is only $300 for a root canal, and only $500 for a crown (“ONLY!” my rent is $500 a month!)
so you are tempting me - but i can’t afford to go anywhere (medically i can’t go anywhere) so i’ll have to look you up in January or so, when i might have the money to do so…

Comment #40: denelian  on  07/06  at  07:04 PM

The Dumbest Man In Public Life, Perhaps Ever
Wait, wait: is George Bush dead?!?

Comment #41: hbsweet, empress of ice cream  on  07/07  at  01:24 AM

“I suspect that situations like the one described in the book played a role in the creation of the NHS. I wonder how long it will take the US…”

Indeed. There was a fascinating <ahref=“http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n10/pede01_.html”>article</a> by Susan Pederson in the London Review Of Books recently which explained (among other things) how the creation of the NHS transformed health and empowered women among the working class especially.

But there is another reason, scarcely noticed by Beier, for their enthusiasm: the NHS brought decent medical care, for the first time, to working-class women themselves. It’s hard to exaggerate how overdue this was. The health insurance system of the interwar years was employment-based, and so mostly covered working men; their wives (unless formally employed, and the vast majority were not) were covered only for maternity. Such a system effectively declared working-class women’s health to be unimportant – and mothers, locked in the struggle to keep their children alive, had trouble thinking it mattered much either. (By focusing so intently on those women’s role as healthcare providers rather than consumers, Beier does little to combat this view.) When social investigators or health visitors bothered to ask, however, they found that most women were struggling with anything from anaemia and poor eyesight to varicose veins and heart disease, often for years on end. The advent of the NHS shone a bright light on that ‘vast reservoir’ of ill-health; in a nutshell, it told women that they didn’t have to live in pain any longer. In this sense, the introduction of the NHS ranks alongside the Representation of the People Act of 1918 and the Equal Franchise Act of 1928 as a milestone in women’s emancipation.

One wonders what universal healthcare would do for equality in the US.

Comment #42: Ginger Yellow  on  07/07  at  07:25 AM

I second Ginger Yellow’s recommendation of that article, it really is excellent. (Yay LRB!)

Re. the original article, it strikes me that stories like this one get written about mostly because there is an endemic discontent with dental services here in the UK. Not because NHS dentistry is bad, but precisely because there isn’t enough of it: dentistry is increasingly going private, the supply of NHS dentists is drying up, and - astonishingly - lots of people therefore don’t get care.

In what universe this could be taken as an argument *against* socialised medicine, I have no idea - the whole point is that the system is breaking down because of privatisation!

Count me in as another Brit who is very happy with the NHS, thank you very much.

(aside from the fact that nurses barely ever seem to get chance to do actual nursing these days, although I gather that’s an issue in the US, too)

Comment #43: Nic_C  on  07/07  at  11:32 AM

I find it hard to believe anyone pulled their own teeth out.

Oh, I can believe it. It’s the kind of thing I’d expect from older people, or people whose older parents did that kind of thing. The bloke in that story sounds like he just assumed he couldn’t find a dentist and didn’t, say, bother looking in the local paper, where they usually list emergency contact numbers. Since he was on the dole, he’d have had it done for free or at a nominal cost.

My fairly strong understanding is that in Britain, if you are willing to “get out your checkbook,” you can go to a private hospital and get other kinds of private health care.

Indeed. Though when the private hospitals fuck up—which they do, at a rate far higher than the NHS—they usually send their patients to the nearest NHS A&E;department to patch up their messes.

Dentistry is, basically, a profession dominated by fuckers. Sorry, it needs saying: there’s a reason why Rachel Green’s cheating fiancé in Friends was an “evil orthodontist” and not an “evil orthopaedic surgeon”. They were the biggest holdout in the creation of the NHS—not dissimilar to how most dentists in the US demand separate insurance.

The problems of NHS provision are very much a regional thing: London and the SE of England, in particular, have seen increasing numbers of dentists either accepting no new NHS patients or going fully private. In other parts of the country, where incomes are lower and there are fewer people willing to go private, you can usually get a regular appointment at relatively short notice, and emergency treatment when needed. Not long before I went from the UK to the US, I broke a tooth—got a temporary filling the next day, and a permanent one a week later. Total cost? Oh, about £40.

So, while it’s presumably good at perpetuating the Austin Powers / bad teeth jokes, and the Daily Mail offers up good ammunition because it is a nasty rag that loves shitting on the NHS,  El Pantaloado’s really just dodging the issue. In the meantime, kids in his part of the US die because of a lack of access to timely dental treatment—something that absolutely would never happen in the UK. We can also point to Diane Sawyer’s extended visit to Appalachia, where one in 10 people have no teeth, and kids who drink nothing but Mountain Dew only now have a roving dentist who’ll pull out half a dozen teeth at a time.

Comment #44: pseudonymous in nc  on  07/07  at  04:47 PM

You gotta admit, that in some respects Jonah has set bar lower than a Bill Pullman character once did:

Lt. Bender: GIVE THE BAG TO BOZO, DROP THE GUN, AND PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR.

Earl Mott: Who said that?

Lt. Walters: This could very well be the stupidest person on the face of the earth. Perhaps we should shoot him.

Lt. Bender: IT’S THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

Earl Mott: Really?

Lt. Bender: NO! WE’RE THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION!

Comment #45: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  07/08  at  02:31 AM

Punditus

The value of these stories is that a good system doesn’t need lies to support it.

Ah, to be young and innocent again…

hbsweet

is George Bush dead?!?

from coke?

Ginger Yellow’s excerpt makes me wonder how much of society’s perception of women dating to that era is informed by observations of women with untreated conditions such as poor eyesight or hearing.

Comment #46: Hershele Ostropoler  on  07/10  at  09:14 PM
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