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Next entry: Holiday quick post Previous entry: Don’t be That Guy

The economist who resembled a bad penny

Economy

So, Larry Summers got into a job as an economic advisor to Obama, which is sort of a backdoor entrance, considering the progressive wing of the party protested the very idea of Summers as the Secretary of the Treasury.  I’ve felt wishy-washy about him having a role in the Obama administration from the get-go.  On one hand, he is a repeat offender of neoliberalism, a centrist whose own self-regard made him disdain a lot of good liberal ideas he should have taken more seriously.  On the other hand, he’s smart and experienced, and we need those things during an economic crisis.  More to the point, while he hasn’t apologized or anything like that, he’s been on a repentance journey of sorts, admitting that vast economic inequalities in a society is bad for the economy.  This NY Times article by David Leonhardt is a good overview, and summarizes the situation as thus:

Mr. Summers has spent much of his career tweaking fellow liberals with arguments he considers unpleasant truths — on the dangers of budget deficits, the benefits of capitalism and other subjects. But he seems to have decided that conservative orthodoxies have become a vastly bigger threat to good economic policy than liberal ones. His favorite argument today is one that instead drives some conservatives nuts.

It goes like this: To undo the rise in income inequality since the late ’70s, every household in the top 1 percent of the distribution, which makes $1.7 million on average, would need to write a check for $800,000. This money could then be pooled and used to send out a $10,000 check to every household in the bottom 80 percent of the distribution, those making less than $120,000. Only then would the country be as economically equal as it was three decades ago.

The lack of middle-class income growth during that span is “the defining issue of our time,” Mr. Summers has said, in a tacit admission that liberals were ahead of him on this issue. He is likely to be front and center in Mr. Obama’s push to reduce taxes on the middle class and create good jobs. Mr. Summers may also push the administration to work with foreign governments to crack down on tax shelters.


We have no evidence to show that he’s lost his infatuation with deregulation, but I suspect you’d have to be a really big fool to push it at a time like this.  But on the whole, I want more than anything to have someone who realizes that economic inequality really is the defining issue, and that the only way to save ourselves is to take measures to rebuild a real middle class that, oh, can engage in the sort of consumer spending that could get us up and running again.  I doubt we’ll all be getting a check any time soon, but there’s other measures to help push people out of the paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle and towards something more substantial.  The most obvious way to start this process is to attack a major expense that keeps people from being able to get ahead—-health care.  According to Ezra, Summers is on board.  As he should be, because anyone who is not on board at this point is a frigging moron.

In this, Summers isn’t articulating a bold new vision: He’s echoing the Democratic consensus. The Obama/Clinton/Edwards/Hacker/Baucus plans all do the same basic thing. With one hand, they spend some money to buttress the existing health care system and erect some new regulations to make it a gentler, more decent place. You do this because people are fundamentally scared of losing what they have right now, and reform needs to speak to their fears, not just the fears of budget and health care wonks.

With the other hand, they create a parallel health care system where the government acts as a health insurance superstore: It has a buyer who chooses products based on quality and price, offers an array of competing private and public options, and lets individuals and businesses alike compare coverage options and purchase the insurance that works best for them. At the beginning, this alternative system is fairly small. But the idea is that over time it grows to be quite large, as employers cannot continually absorb the cost of health care and they cannot squeeze out the efficiencies that a government agency with huge market share can demand. In essence, the plan deals with the fears of the public in the short-term but sets up the incentives so that the system moves towards the ideal of the experts in the long-term, which means moving away from employer-based health care.

I’d add that a side benefit of this is that it reduces the possibility of dramatic negative change.  Insurance companies, after all, employ people, and if we made moves that put them in direct economic crisis, they’d start laying off people immediately.  Gradual change will make it easier for the jobs to slowly convert to public ones without risking major job loss. 

But what’s important to me is that we have people on the team that will make inequality (and therefore health care) a priority, and if Larry Summers is that guy, I’m on board.  But I definitely agree with others who fear that he’ll backslide immediately.  Guess we’ll have to wait and see. 

One thing that I don’t think is relevant to this discussion is the controversy over his nasty comments about women’s inherent abilities, and how that might be the reason that we see too few women in math and science.  Not that I think he wasn’t being odious, because he was.  He was sexist and engaging in blatant ass-covering behavior.  (To be fair, the ass-covering behavior is a point of concern, and since he won’t face up to damage he did under Clinton, it seems it might be an issue with his personality that hurts his leadership abilities.)  His opinions about women’s basic capacity to be geniuses at physics is irrelevant to this position.  I’m sure that a lot of people that do great jobs at their current high level jobs have stupid prejudices that we don’t know about because it never comes up.  I don’t see how it could hurt his performance at this job, and if he is the most qualified person, I’d hate to see him swapped out for someone less qualified who may not have prejudices or, more likely, just hasn’t had any reason to have them published in newspapers. I’ve seen a few feminists reach for his sexist comments as a reason, and I think that’s the sort of off-message behavior that gets us ignored.  You know, ;ike bringing “Free Mumia” signs to anti-war protests.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 08:33 PM • (65) Comments

hmmm….while I agree that Summers comments themselves are irrelevant, I don’t agree that his tenure at Harvard as Pres. is irrelevant.  While there, the number of tenured women professors declined precipitously, and he managed to alienate most of the academia there as well.

So if all he were doing was making dumbfuck comments, that’d be fine.  I wouldn’t want to go to a dinner party with him but wouldn’t care if he was steering the coutnry’s economic policy.  But I do care how many women are involved in the process, and if it seems like he actually acts on his prejudices, that matters to me.  What’s more, if he’s annoying to work with, that’s going to drive away lots and lots of smart, talented people who would otherwise be really helpful.

And, sure, he’s smart, but he’s been wrong so many times before that I really don’t think his intelligence or experience matter that much.  I’ve known too many Harvard MBA’s who were brilliant and clever, and experienced and thoughtful, yet they wer still spectacularly wrong on important issues.  They simply had a blindspot (probably because of their privileged experiences) and all prior evidence suggests Summers has a similar problem.  In some thigns, what matters most is that you have hte right instinct, and I suspect summers has the wrong instincts most of the time.

Comment #1: t-ster  on  11/26  at  08:54 PM

By “ass-covering behaviour” are you referring to the precipitous drop in the percentage of women as new tenure-track hires during his stay at Harvard?

Or something else?

Comment #2: Andrew  on  11/26  at  08:55 PM

Yeah, I never said his entire tenure is irrelevant.  But he’s an advisor, not a manager, so his management skills don’t matter to me that much.  If he’s a good idea man and he can push for good ideas, that’s what he needs to be.  It seems that he is these things, and it’s really a matter of whether or not the ideas he gets behind are the important ones.

But agreed that his blind spots are troubling to say the least.  It’s the biggest and pretty much only issue.

Yes, Andrew.

Comment #3: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/26  at  08:58 PM

I unno Amanda, dude reminds me a lot of Robert McNamara. Brilliant idiot, if you know what I mean.

I’m less willing to give him the benefit of the doubt than I am the President-elect. Obama likes him, and so far he’s shown a lot of good judgment. So far.

Comment #4: Andrew  on  11/26  at  09:03 PM

<blockquote>By “ass-covering behaviour” are you referring to the precipitous drop in the percentage of women as new tenure-track hires during his stay at Harvard?</blockquote

???? After his comments, wouldn’t “ass-covering” involve INCREASING the f. tenure-track hires?  Instead, a ‘precipitous drop’ seems more like “compounding the problem”, since he’d catch flak for it.

Comment #5: Eric, Rejector of Memez  on  11/26  at  09:05 PM

Eric -

I meant - and I think Amanda meant - that his stupid attempt to explain the dearth of women at the top end of the sciences and engineering as the result of differences in innate ability was an attempt to cover his ass for Harvard’s taking about ten steps back in gender equity under his watch.

Comment #6: Andrew  on  11/26  at  09:15 PM

Well, hey, as the graphic in the previous article shows, douchebags sometimes work as enemas, and sometimes an enema is a good thing!

Won’t get into the enema of my enema is my friend jokes here ..

Comment #7: Ms Kate  on  11/26  at  09:45 PM

I actually worked at Harvard during his watch.  It was a mixed bag, and not entirely of his making.  Some of it was the legacy of years of “every tub on its own bottom” that meant fewer tenure track eligible women in the pipeline because of a festering boys club, the backlash from his predicessor removing the “tubs” (each department = tub having complete control and its own bureaucracy), some of it was the tightening of the extreme requirements for tenure that made Harvard unattractive for people wanting to have kids, etc.  Summers, if anything, was the buffoon that said what some were thinking, but his buffoonery outed those who were most backward and they had to defend themselves or be held accountable.

In any case, Harvard routinely scores high as one of the best places to work for parents, and that I can vouch for.  Certain benefits were fantastic.

I still wish that I had been in a position where losing my job for dumping a bag of peanut m&ms;from a third floor balcony on Summers’ head would have been possibility.  Then again, I didn’t want to hurt Bono as collateral damage.

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Comment #9: qlghydgab  on  11/26  at  10:10 PM

Summers is a DEMONcrap, so he’s horrible.  I thought your precious black J*esus was going to have a bipartisan administration by having an all Republican cabinet…what ever happened to that campaign promise?

Comment #10: Rugged in Montana  on  11/26  at  10:27 PM

RiM, you are so right!  Now if Obama could find some fine, competent Republicans like Michael Brown, or a quintessential Republican like Doug Feith then we could really have a bipartisan administration — half SUCCESS and half FAIL…

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Comment #13: coczmy  on  11/27  at  12:54 AM

i want to ask a complicated question. i am asking here, because most of the time i bring this up i am shushed (kinda literally). let me try to explain my thinking…
my dad works for the Ohio BMV (which is a DMV in sane states) as a computer programmer. he is a actually a SP 2 (i think. it’s something like that, systems programmer or something). he codes, and debugs. he works something like 50-60 hours a week. i have gone to visit him. he doesn’t take breaks longer than 5 minutes, he doesn’t do extraneous things, when i visit he sits and runs debugging or compiling. he doesn’t stop working.
he is an anomoly.
according to his boss (John. funny story, but when they were in the Air Force my dad was John’s boss wink, most of the SPs and SAs (system administrators) clock 40-45 hours. my dad averages 55. my dad averages 53 hours WORKED in those 55. the average SP or SA at this particular BMV? somewhere around 20. they goof off, take half hour smoke breaks and 2 hour lunch breaks, play games instead of code, work on personal projects, etc half of the time they are getting paid to work. it takes more money to fire one of these people than it does to just add another person. they have a process to fire someone - and there are 14 steps (each of which takes at least a week) before there is even a FORMAL WRITTEN WARNING… and, if the person keeps his/her nose clean for six months, all of it (including the formal written warning) disappears, and they can go back to slacking off again. not that it gets that far very often, because most of the bosses don’t care enough. and i would like to note that this only applies to those employed directly by the state - contracters are held to MUCH higher and tighter standards, and are much much MUCH easier to fire. and that my dad is the only person he knows, besides his boss john, who used to be a contracter and was hired directly by the state, who still does the SAME AMOUNT OF WORK. or, in my dad’s case, MORE work. everyone else he knows who transitioned immediately started slacking off. its why most of the people who do the main work are contracters. contracters actually work.

this is where my question, or maybe concern comes in. with the government as the main insurance company (which is the best way i can think of to simplify the situation) we end up with government workers being the ones who do all the insurance work. how long before healthcare follows social security, the BMV/DMVs, the VA? even better, and more importantly, how do we KEEP THIS FROM HAPPENING? my insurance (through the school, so better than most) already takes something like 6 months to process claims. i haven’t been reimbursed for drug claims from JANUARY.
that, right there, is my ONLY problem with the Obama plan. it worries me. its not that i think that people who work for the government are INHERENTLY lazy (i am sure there are some) but that there is a climate of laziness in almost every government agency that *I* can think of. if someone works more than everyone else, they are informally punished by everyone else for making them all look bad (my dad has been protected from the worst of it by John, but please note that he is the ONLY person in his office never invited out, never invited to office parties, never included in Secret Santa, etc).
does this make sense? does anyone have any ideas as to how to fix/prevent this?

Comment #14: denelian  on  11/27  at  03:48 AM

I unno Amanda, dude reminds me a lot of Robert McNamara. Brilliant idiot, if you know what I mean.

Uh, I’d recommend suspending judgement on McNamara until you’ve watched this. Not that you’re wrong, just that it might be a little more naunced than you think.

Comment #15: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  11/27  at  03:58 AM

But he’s an advisor, not a manager, so his management skills don’t matter to me that much.

Yeah, this is why we have Tim Geithner to actually be Secretary of Treasury—word is that he’s more the manager type.

Comment #16: Neil the Ethical Werewolf  on  11/27  at  04:21 AM

this is where my question, or maybe concern comes in. with the government as the main insurance company (which is the best way i can think of to simplify the situation) we end up with government workers being the ones who do all the insurance work. how long before healthcare follows social security, the BMV/DMVs, the VA? even better, and more importantly, how do we KEEP THIS FROM HAPPENING?

Denelian, there’s comparative statistics showing that less is spent on administrative costs in other OECD countries.  See this press release and this table - you spend the most, but you’re 37th in performance. The top three (major) countries are France, Italy and Singapore.

Comment #17: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  11/27  at  04:46 AM

Yeah, he’s smart, he experienced, he’s a realist, and he certainly recognises the importance of inequality - which is why he once said “the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that”. (The argument being that the economic impact resulting from people dying is lower if they’re poor.)

Is that really the kind of guy you want? Personally, that’s not quite the approach to inequality that I’m looking for.

Comment #18: Dunc  on  11/27  at  06:52 AM

The question I’ve yet to hear answered re Summers: if not him, then who? Note that Krugman has said he doesn’t want such a job.

Comment #19: me  on  11/27  at  08:18 AM

p.s. spot on w.r.t. Summers’ inappropriate comments. Some columnists have been using it to pretend it’s the reason he’s been criticised.

I can’t find the article I’m thinking of, but here’s a DK diary in that vein:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/16/85911/068

Oh, and c.f.
http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/larry-summers-treasury-secretary

Comment #20: me  on  11/27  at  08:29 AM

For an incoming government with so much promise, rewarding people like Summers is a real disappointment.  There are many talented people in academia, and Summers is extremely well qualified but not uniquely qualified.  He also happens to be a real jerk.  I had to interact personally with Summers through my involvement with the student body of Harvard’s graduate school during the fiasco he stupidly triggered.  The guy has a real distain for anyone who challenges him, and clearly thinks he’s the smartest person in the room.  To his credit he probably often is, but it doesn’t endear him as a leader.  Summers is the economical Rumsfeld.

His poor leadership damaged the education of many people, as it’s difficult to hear a university president question your abilities.  Harvard’s Graduate Student Council found ourselves writing open letters like this (scroll to the bottom):

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~gsc/meetings/minutes0502.shtml

simply as encouragement to our fellow students working in such an ugly environment.

I was hoping that Obama would understand that many of his supporters would take a Summers appointment as a poor sign, but he did not.  I was hoping that morality, in addition to capability, would be a requirement for a position in the new administration, but clearly that’s already taking a back seat to pragmatism.

Comment #21: BR  on  11/27  at  09:08 AM

“he’s smart and experienced”

And yet he was drastically wrong on one of the key issues of our time.  Smart is as smart does.

Comment #22: Notorious P.A.T.  on  11/27  at  10:18 AM

“Insurance companies employ people, and if we made moves that put them in direct economic crisis, they’d start laying off people immediately.”

I know I’d be willing to sacrifice my life so that an insurance company bean-counter can keep his job a little longer! ! !

Comment #23: Notorious P.A.T.  on  11/27  at  10:21 AM

denelian -

Your father sounds like he’s a real pill and my guess is that you are fruit that did not fall far from the tree. 

I’ve worked in government and corporate offices.  The main differences in goofing off was that the corporate types hid it better.  The bosses also managed to find frightened little people like you to do all the work while their frat buddy pals slacked off. Also, people tended to put in the four hours of work the government people did, but had to stay in the office for 10-12 hours a day, rather than the 8 the government workers put in. There is more inflexibility in lots of government departments.  My guess is that your father’s office was staffed for when much of the programming was written from scratch in COBOL or C, and now that the work is in a higher level language and thus much lighter work, they still have the same number of programmers.  But… my guess is that your father doesn’t actually produce more or higher quality output than the folks who are goofing off?  Why?  People who are good at what they do generally learn to work efficiently and take care of themselves.  If he is running that close to the edge of burnout all the time, he isn’t doing higher order thinking.  You seem to be falling into the same trap.

The real difference between government and corporate.  In government, when things go wrong, the people up top loose their jobs, and the people at the bottom remain.  In corporate, the bigwigs stay and the folks who sacrificed to implement their policies are thrown out on the street.

Comment #24: Mo  on  11/27  at  11:16 AM

“There are many talented people in academia, and Summers is extremely well qualified but not uniquely qualified.”
Please, name names.

Comment #25: me  on  11/27  at  11:19 AM

What’s fascinating about watching this is how the debate is framed.

For about 28 years or so it has been established economic orthodoxy that only the “right” and the “centrists” were correct about economic matters.  It wasn’t even conceded that anybody else even knew anything about economic matters.  From Reagan through to Bush II it has been right-wing and so-called centre all the way.

Now that so many of their pieces of accepted wisdom lie shattered on the floor, now that so many of their baseline assumptions and policies turn out to have been totally wrong, is any credit—outside the blogsphere—going to the left, to progressives, to liberals, to people who had this called from the get-go?  Paul Krugman won the Nobel Prize… and that’s it.  It isn’t being openly conceded that any of them were right, or that their solutions might have validity even if those solutions are being actively implemented.  It is seen, rather, as this: the economic theories of the centre were and are fundamentally correct, and those of the left incorrect; we are only going through a period of overdue correction to those ideas.

Got that?  The people who drove us off the cliff are being rightfully excoriated.  The people who said, “yeah, what a good idea to let them drive us off the cliff!” are being rewarded.  The people who said, “off the cliff, are you NUTS?????” remain fringe and disdained even though the centrists now lie and say, “we thought the cliff was a bad idea”.

Pathetic.

Comment #26: seeker6079  on  11/27  at  11:24 AM

Denelian, I worked in healthcare insurance IT.

The situation with people slacking off is almost as bad there. And morale was extremely low because our company had merged with another, and the other IT department was getting our work, so it was all being moved over. No one was motivated to do a damn thing. Add to that that our paid claims division was *so* sluggish and the software design had been so incompetent, providers who had submitted claims 2 years ago hadn’t been paid yet. Later in talking to providers, I found out that the particular company I had worked for was actually infamous for never getting around to paying claims.

The thing about government agencies is that they can be required by regulation to pay claims within a certain time frame, which can’t be done with private companies (or rather, theoretically it could be done, but because the government isn’t involved in the transaction of private citizen - private insurance - private healthcare provider, it would actually involve someone having to sue to get enforcement. Whereas when the government is in charge, it’s obviously involved and has direct oversight of the department.) Government is bloated, but from an IT perspective it often works more smoothly because one government division uses one IT system, and has the clout to require that everything be sent to them in a compatible format, so you don’t have to handle eight zillion formats coming in and going out.

So I don’t think the situation will be as bad as you fear, because honestly, it would be almost impossible to be worse than it is right now.

Comment #27: Alara Rogers  on  11/27  at  11:27 AM

PIATOR:

I’ve seen Fog of War and I’ve done a fair bit of study of the Vietnam War.  I still think that MacNamara was wrong in many of the most colossal ways that a SecDef could be.  He was responsible for some great and overdue administrative and structural changes, iirc, but as a SecDef in wartime he was an appalling failure.  He was notorious for not heeding the counsel of people who told him things he did not want to hear, amongst other things.  Worse, he was, in a way, a kind of reverse Hitler in the way that he processed information: Adolf tended to believe in the “Will” and “Spiritual” and “Instinctive” and “Ideological” elements of war to a fetishistic and self-damaging way; MacNamara didn’t believe in any of these things but was equally narrow-minded and fetishistic about quantification, mathematical modeling, progress reports, and the like.  As long as the flow charts said the USA was winning then the USA was winning.

I don’t mean to compare Hitler and MacNamara as people.  I only note that as processors of information as planners, and as implementors of plans they were two sides of the same coin.  Both became wholly blinded to the reality on the ground.  (The fact that MacNamara spent so long in the job and never grasped that the war was in huge measure a national liberation movement shows that the smartest guy in the room can be the dumbest, too.)

Hitler would at least listen to junior frontline officers (before almost always later wholly rejecting their input); MacNamara never really even did that.

Comment #28: seeker6079  on  11/27  at  11:40 AM

Denelian:

My experience with a multitude of Canadian bureaucracies is that, for the most part, the people in them give a shit about the services and do their best to provide them well.  There are some caveats:

1. The bureaucracy tends to take its cue from the government.  So, if the government is hostile to poor people (like the previous Harris Conservative government here in Ontario some time ago) then the staff will treat poor people badly. 

2. The quality of government staff depends greatly both on the union and its especially its stewards.  I’m a union man myself, and have been off and on since I was 15; I retain my union membership even though I’m now a lawyer.  But I’ve grown to realize that one of the biggest problems that the union movement has is bad stewards. Many of the ones that I’ve seen are utterly devoted to protecting the laziest, snarkiest bums (who are often their best buds) and working passively or actively to get decent employees fired.  But, that said, even with a snarky union and shitty stewards the public services here tend to be quite good.

3.  People’s perceptions of government workers are often immune to reality; many will instinctively believe that government workers are lazy, pampered, (etc).  A friend of mine was a junior lawyer with an Ontario ministry.  When she’d drag her ass home to her apartment, exhausted after a 12+ hour day she’d often be greeted by a neighbour who worked a 9-5 job; this neighbour loved to joke with her about her “cushy government job”, and meant it.  He’d have been home for hours, fed, had a beer, relaxed with his wife.  But he still felt in his bones that he Worked and she was Government And Didn’t.

4.  When government is the monopoly provider people apply different standards. When, say, people get shitty service at a Goodyear they don’t believe or say, “screw this, all tire stores provide shitty service!”  [even if they do, like cell phone or telcom companies!].  When people get shitty service from government they think that government is shitty at providing service. The fact that they may have accessed dozens of government services without a problem over the past few months doesn’t occur to them.

5.  Voicemail and automated phone systems are a boon to two types of government workers: those who need a few quiet hours to get some work done; those who are now delighted to have any public access to them euthanized.

[/derail]

Comment #29: seeker6079  on  11/27  at  11:57 AM

PIATOR -

Yeah, I’ve seen the film. I also know a bit about his time at the World Bank. Still going with “brilliant idiot.”

Comment #30: Andrew  on  11/27  at  12:01 PM

Denelian:

Consider this: Canadians have single-payer universal health care provided by their governments.  It is, in many ways, flawed.  We also have, right next to us, a clear example of how private health care works: the USA.  We are in a position to constantly compare the two systems and how they work.

Now consider this:  The fast way, bar none for a Canadian politician to cut his own throat politically is to suggest getting rid of our health care system or move to a more American system.  It is electoral suicide.  Even then-ultra-popular Alberta (Canada’s Texas!) Ralph Klein had to back off most of his efforts to introduce greater privatization. This is in Alberta, for god’s sake, which is waaaaaaaaay to the right of every other Canadian province!!!

You worry that a government health care system would be a DMV-style nightmare.  Please ponder Canada, then.  We see your system, and we see ours.  And our first reaction to any politician who suggests that we move to your system is to “kill” him at the earliest opportunity.  Who’s more satisfied?

Comment #31: seeker6079  on  11/27  at  12:05 PM

Dunc, that’s certainly my concern.  I don’t want to be a hardass who says people can’t change, though.  And I suspect that the select-a-villain method of politics is self-defeating.  For instance, the people so enamored of voting for Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader as a useless “protest” against Democrats that they couldn’t be bothered to apply scrutiny to their own choices.

Comment #32: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/27  at  12:25 PM

Think about the Summers appointment this way:

Is Obama adopting a key tenet of the Bush II Presidency?  “No matter how badly you err you can never be damned from the magic circle.”  (In the Dem variant, bonus points for pissing on the shoes of the people who brung ya to the dance in the first place.)

Comment #33: seeker6079  on  11/27  at  12:25 PM

(To be fair, the ass-covering behavior is a point of concern, and since he won’t face up to damage he did under Clinton, it seems it might be an issue with his personality that hurts his leadership abilities.)

Economics = Math.

Comment #34: Roxanne  on  11/27  at  12:27 PM

I know I’d be willing to sacrifice my life so that an insurance company bean-counter can keep his job a little longer! ! !

Way to pretend a complex issue is a simple give or take.  Getting someone fired without a direct replacement for her job isn’t necessarily going to save a single life.  Pretending that the choice is between the gradual system offered by Democrats and immediately installed national health is naive.  Your choice is gradualism or nothing, if you want to be realistic.

Comment #35: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/27  at  12:27 PM

Roxanne:

Knowing which numbers to pick = personality and judgment.

Comment #36: seeker6079  on  11/27  at  12:28 PM

Your choice is gradualism or nothing, if you want to be realistic.

If we’d gone for gradualism in Canada we’d still have a system like yours, Amanda.  The GOP and the right aim for miles, sometimes get there, and when they don’t they are still hundreds of yards ahead.  The Dems and the left aim for a foot or so, and feel pleased with themselves when they get an inch or two.  Go large, and force them to fight and claw just to keep some of what they have.  As a political tactic against zero-sum opponents maximalism works.

Comment #37: seeker6079  on  11/27  at  12:32 PM

I have the same concerns about Summers, but I look at it this way: he may be a proponent of neoliberal economics like his colleagues because neoliberalism benefits him as a white educated American; but unlike most of his colleagues, he seems genuine in his desire to share those benefits with others. Unfortunately, and despite his experience domestically and abroad, he’s still wedded to the core delusion that the majority of participants in any given economy are rational actors.

So until a behavioural economist with Summers’ public and academic standing and profile comes along (and it’s a young sub-discipline), as an advisor he’s one of the better choices of a dismal lot (sorry for that. I blame Ms Kate).

there is a climate of laziness in almost every government agency that *I* can think of. if someone works more than everyone else, they are informally punished by everyone else for making them all look bad

If you replace “almost every government agency” with a more general “almost every large bureaucratic organisation” (including HMOs) the statement is just as valid. The nature of large bureaucracies are such that some form of the Human Resources Culture takes hold easily in them, whether they’re public or private. The stuff your father deals with is also present in most large corporations.

Comment #38: Gracchus  on  11/27  at  12:41 PM

I’ve engaged in some of the hand-wringing over the Cabinet appointments thus far, as they have been a little less progressive than many on the left, and particularly in the netroots, would have liked to have seen.  I think Barack Obama will be a center-left POTUS, but decidedly a little more towards the center than towards the left.  Summers, Geithner, Gates, and even to a degree Clinton were not my ideal choices for the jobs for which they are being appointed to.

That said, I got a lot of perspective on my angst after reading this yesterday at DailyKos:

Goodbye to My Old Friends of the Radical Left…

It was written by a diarist who considers himself to be an ultra-progressive far left thinker, and he points out that while we still have a long, long way to go in really eradicating the societal cancers that have been imposed upon our global society by privileged classes, that sometimes we need to step back and see what good things we HAVE accomplished rather than constantly focusing on the goals that sometimes seem so impossibly far away.  It’s not an argument against vigilant skepticism, nor is it a call for everybody to stop fighting the good fight and come together to sing Kumbaya, it’s more of a call for an occasional “bummer-free zone” where we celebrate the great things that we have helped to make happen, to not always be so down about what has yet to happen, and to go forward with a sense of optimism about what CAN happen in the future, rather than always clingin to the cynical outlook which tells us that we will always be doomed to horrific inequities in society.  The gist is that while it is important to always maintain a healthy level of skepticism, hanging onto a permanent moribund sense of cynicism may not be very helpful to achieving our desired goals.

Think about it… my flipping President is black.  Seriously.  20 years ago if anyone would have suggested that would happen 2 decades later, it would have gotten them laughed out of the room.  And a lot of people on our side would have been laughing, too.

Great things can, and do, happen.

Comment #39: DTG in STL  on  11/27  at  12:48 PM

I don’t want to be a hardass who says people can’t change, though.

That’s fair enough, but I think it’s also possible to err on the other side, by giving the benefit of the doubt to people who haven’t really shown any inclination to change. I see no indication that Mr Summers has fundamentally revised his views on economic efficiency, and the unpleasant fact is that once you accept those views, then the economic logic of dumping toxic waste in the lowest-wage country genuinely is unassailable and there’s no use pretending otherwise.

I’ll say one thing for him though - at least he was honest about it.

Comment #40: Dunc  on  11/27  at  12:52 PM

So until a behavioural economist with Summers’ public and academic standing and profile comes along

And how, pray tell, can such a new voice come along and gain Summers’ “public and academic standing and profile” if people like him remain at the top and are first in line for all jobs that create and maintain that ‘public and academic standing”?  Face it.  Sometimes ruthless culling of otherwise deserving people who have screwed up is necessary that even more deserving people get their chance at the top.

Comment #41: seeker6079  on  11/27  at  12:55 PM

Just a follow-up on my 10:55.  I have very little patience for that sort of “standing” argument.  It usually means—in practice, if not in intent—that the self-preserving top protect each other.  Fuck up here?  No worries, get hired here, or here, or here.  You’re in the magic circle of People Who Know Each Other.  One of the reasons that corporate America is such a sinkhole of greed, inefficiency and stupid decisions is that people glide from one high-profile failure of cockup to another, because they are people of standing, well-regarded in their own little community at the top. 

Summers probably has more brains in his left hand than I do in my head.  But the fact remains that he ain’t the only smart guy in the US of A, and so why not pick somebody up-and-coming and equally smart who hasn’t looked down his nose at why girls shouldn’t worry their pretty little heads, or mused that poisoning countless Africans is just peachy?  Why the hell not?????

If Summers hadn’t been a cabinet appointee and Harvard president would he keep getting these do-overs?  No.  People at the apex get countless do-overs.  People like you and me get fired.  (Hell, I got fired last year for doing too good a job, something that doesn’t happen in politics!)  So why all the sympathy for such an asshole?

Comment #42: seeker6079  on  11/27  at  01:02 PM

And how, pray tell, can such a new voice come along and gain Summers’ “public and academic standing and profile” if people like him remain at the top and are first in line for all jobs that create and maintain that ‘public and academic standing”?

Time and pressure. As I said, behavioural economics is a young sub-discipline, but that doesn’t mean it’ll stay that way forever. If that’s the way it worked, every modern economics faculty would still be dominated by Adam Smith purists.

You’re correct that, for the moment, Chicago School economists rule the academic roost, and use all the power that implies to deny tenure, deny hires, deny peer-reviewed publication, etc. But “for the moment” is what we’re dealing with when it comes to Obama’s first-term cabinet appointments. Obama doesn’t have a time machine to snatch a major behavioural economist from the future, and even if he did I’m not convinced that a moderate-centrist University of Chicago professor like the President-elect would be so inclined.

Comment #43: Gracchus  on  11/27  at  01:13 PM

I don’t disagree, Gracchus.

I think that my complaint is wider.  I am just so sick and tired of watching government, business, education and social services play musical chairs at the top while young up-and-comers never get a chance.  It’s interesting to note that some of the most signal successes in American business over the past two decades have come from very young people who didn’t come up through large organizations such as universities, corporations or the like: Google, Myspace, Facebook, Pixar and such.

Comment #44: seeker6079  on  11/27  at  01:18 PM

I should note: musical chairs where none of those assholes is ever left standing.  Hell, even when there are more chairs.  I’ve seen some large organizations close down a position or opportunity, or defer hiring, when the only people available are younger individuals.  They prefer to sit on their hands until one of their own established set becomes available.  Then, magically, the job comes open again.  Gasp!!!!!

I am SO glad that I’m self-employed.

Comment #45: seeker6079  on  11/27  at  01:20 PM

As for the argument that healthcare would become like the DMV, I say “so”? I personally have never once had difficulty at the DMV in my 8 years of driving. I’ve never had to wait more than 30 minutes for anything (and that was because I came at a peak hour), and it was all quite efficient and functional.

In contrast, I’ve had to stay on the phone for well over an hour to get something cleared up in my insurance billing, have had medicines declined, and for some odd reason my insurance company is absolutely convinced I have diabetes (and I don’t) and sends me something about ‘managing your diabetes’ about once a month.

Looking at the two models from my personal experience, I’ll take the DMV any day.

Comment #46: Ashley  on  11/27  at  01:29 PM

Just a follow-up on my 10:55.  I have very little patience for that sort of “standing” argument.  It usually means—in practice, if not in intent—that the self-preserving top protect each other.

Welcome to the world of academic life (and bigcorp life ... and government life). I don’t like what I call the “glass floor” (AKA too important to fail) or the Human Resources Culture any more than you do. But unless you’re fortunate enough to opt out or reach a modus vivendi with the situation (and that takes a lot of luck), it is what it is.

so why not pick somebody up-and-coming and equally smart

Mainly due to the “up-and-coming” part—that requires a level of risk-friendliness that’s not found in most politicians, let alone a President-elect. These people make the safest picks they can.

If Summers hadn’t been a cabinet appointee and Harvard president would he keep getting these do-overs?  No.  People at the apex get countless do-overs.

Exactly. That’s the “glass floor” at work. The congenital screw-up who’s our soon-to-be ex-President has lived his entire life working that way. I don’t have sympathy for these guys, but I recognise that changing the situation is beyond the ability of Obama. Heck, Lenin used extremely coercive measures to sweep away the old system, only to see his successor re-instate the “glass floor” on another basis—time-serving commissars instead of time-serving aristocrats.

People like you and me get fired.  (Hell, I got fired last year for doing too good a job, something that doesn’t happen in politics!)

I understand the anger, and I’ve been there myself. Fortunately it was a low-stakes temp job just after college, but I learned my lesson then and there. People in our position deal with it in different ways: some are able to reach a point where they can opt out (like me and apparently you), some choose to struggle their way up in the system to the point where they can hold the power and make a difference (like the up-and-coming behavioural economists), and some just decide to give up and set their attitude to perma-bitter.

I’ve seen some large organizations close down a position or opportunity, or defer hiring, when the only people available are younger individuals.

If you’re a Gen-Xer like me, you ain’t seen nothing yet. Between the Boomer “I’m a unique, indispensible flower” attitude and an economy that’s going to defer retirement for a lot of them, this trend is going to get worse.

Comment #47: Gracchus  on  11/27  at  01:35 PM

I should note: musical chairs where none of those assholes is ever left standing.  Hell, even when there are more chairs.  I’ve seen some large organizations close down a position or opportunity, or defer hiring, when the only people available are younger individuals.  They prefer to sit on their hands until one of their own established set becomes available.  Then, magically, the job comes open again.  Gasp!!!!!

The irony there is that many of the folks in that establishment today probably leveled the exact same complaint 25 years ago.

And 25 years from now, when the late Gen Xers and Millennials are ruling the roost, generations that are just children now or who have yet to be born will likely be saying the exact same thing about us.

Comment #48: DTG in STL  on  11/27  at  02:04 PM

And 25 years from now, when the late Gen Xers and Millennials are ruling the roost, generations that are just children now or who have yet to be born will likely be saying the exact same thing about us.

That’s really what it comes down to, although from what I’m observing the Boomer generation will take seeker’s game of “musical chairs” to televised spectator league-play levels.

Comment #49: Gracchus  on  11/27  at  02:14 PM

I agree with Ashely - if figuring out health insurance issues was as easy as getting your car registered or license renewed, that would be fantastic.  Thinking about all of my interactions with government agencies in the last few years, I’d say my biggest bitch is that I could use a few more people behind the counter during peak times at the post office. 

I hear getting welfare is a real pain in the ass, though.  Maybe we should just pick the right bureaucracy to model.

Comment #50: Kyso K  on  11/27  at  04:39 PM

I don’t think we need to worry about Obama’s cabinet &, more significantly, his advisorate, in the way we needed to for Bush because, to borrow a sexist expression—Obama wears the pants. We just need to keep up our advocacy: Obama will force those he hires to work toward his goals or fire them. We’re not gonna be in a heckuva job situation.

Comment #51: Erl  on  11/27  at  07:55 PM

Obama is being cautious because he is going to be the most heavily scrutinized and most strenuously attacked president in modern history.  What happened to Clinton is going to be a fond memory compared to the shitstorm the flying monkeys will unleash against our new secret muslim terrorist marxo-fascist antichrist leader.

You can argue that he should just say damn the torpedoes, but if he’s to have any hope of a second term the first term needs to be squarely middle of the road.  I think he’s going to do OK in the long term, but along the way there will be disappointments like DOMA and DADT.  Still a net win overall, is my prediction.

Comment #52: togolosh  on  11/27  at  07:56 PM

I work in health insurance (markeing, not bean-counting) but I am progressive and for universal coverage. It’s possible my job may go away someday, but it won’t be tomorrow, and by the time my company really thinks things are going to go kaput (if ever) I will be able to move on. Maybe even to a job in some new industry spurred by our government’s investment in new technologies. Or maybe my own business, since with guaranteed healthcare, I no longer have as high a risk in doing so.

I am eager for change, but it needs to take place in a smart, measured, and smooth way that minimizes disruption for everyone. I work for one of THE largest insurers, and we employ thousands of people, and provide coverage for millions more. Most of us are just your average office types, customer service people, statisticians, IT people, janitorial, maintenence, secretaries and middle managers. You can’t just close our doors tomorrow, and it would be dumb to do so; our current patient records and doctor contracts, for one, will take some time to unravel for transfer into a new system. Multiply that by all the other insurers out there and you have a huge task.

Comment #53: emjaybee  on  11/27  at  09:29 PM

Kyso: I agree, dealing with most government agencies is a breeze compared to private service companies, try even doing a return sometimes at a department store or try getting service help when said department store has decided to cut staff to increase profits (satisfy stockholders).

On your comment about welfare, yes, welfare agencies on the state/federal level are intentionally difficult. Roadblocks are put into the system and the agencies are intentionally understaffed with the goal in mind of making the experience for the applicant/recipient as miserable as possible.  Apparently, the farther from poverty people (by and large I mean Congress and whatever POTUS is in office) get the more they get the idea that poverty itself isn’t a miserable enough motivator to want out.  Ironically, the inefficient services, the complicated rules and cross checking and the programs that are nearly useless due to being only half-assedly funded does more to discourage and demoralize people, waste their precious time that could be better spent getting skills or work and basically sending them home with each visit with the uplifting sublimal message, “We think you are a scamming, whoring, talentless dirtbag.”

By contrast, other services for poor folks run by the government work like clockwork, take for instance the federally run HUD programs such as Section-8 housing vouchers. Although low funding allocations have caused a “waiting list” that causes the average wait for housing as long as five years, the agency itself runs very well.  Landlords are paid ontime and promptly, services are delivered to recipients as promised and on time (once they get into the program).  I’d say the same for the fuel assistance program, which although is pathetically underfunded to the point where they must turn away many needy people, the fact is that the agency runs efficiently and delivers service accurately and ontime.  Same with the Social Security administration.

So, yes services for poor folks are difficult and cumbersome, but it seems that mostly due to intentional bottle-necking at the initial delivery end in order to keep down the number of people actually on the program.  In other words, service agencies for the poor are engineered to serve a very limited number of persons each year.  This also makes it convenient for administrations to boast of “reduced numbers” on the dole as a proof of their poverty curing powers, while in truth, they shut kick more people to the curb where they become invisible to the public.  But on an administrative level, they run just fine.

Comment #54: kate  on  11/28  at  01:06 AM

Speaking of welfare I do have some exp with it since I am on food stamps due to medical disability.

Every six months is a renew with a sheef of papers to fill out then have an interview and getting about 150 bucks a month to spend on just food. They should have a seperate amount for stuff like toilet paper, tooth paste, soap, shampoo.

Thankfully I do not have to go to the office anymore for the interview it seems like since I just do a phone interview.

A lot more people these days are applying and getting in (a story said six million more people this year alone) and well lets say the food stamp office has it’s share of low lifes that just hang out there day after day after day. These are the people that give a bad name to welfare since they just want free money, they could work but don’t want to. These lowlifes get enraged when white people who have never been on food stamps, but have recently lost their job get priority access instead of being put on a waiting list.  There are a few security guards too armed ones with the gun being ready to be pulled out if someone causes trouble.

As to how they know the white person got priority access it’s a different colored form that indicates it.
A lot of the paperwork is stuff that is already in the system and it is a major pain in the butt to fill out so it does weed out some people that it shouldn’t.

So yeah it is bothersome and underfunded so it is demoralizing however a number of people would just rather soak up the welfare money never getting out of poverty since to them it’s a way of life. So it’s better to stop the number of people going into that life style and for those that just need help for a little while it’s a hassle they don’t want to have to deal with ever again once they get their life back in order. For people like me the welfare office is just a neccessary but needed evil.  I think it’s the same mentality a number of people in the prison system get that when they finally get out of prison they do a crime to get back in since they don’t want to live on the outside anymore since prison is their new home.

I will say that medicaid in my state is pretty nice. Not having to pay eighty bucks on a prescription drug is wonderfull. Usually I only pay eight bucks. Even narcotics are covered which came in handy when I had to a piece of the underside of my tongue removed and my wisdom teeth a few weeks later. Military dental under my father’s plan since he is retired is also quite handy. If you know how to deal with that hassle it is quite rewarding to not have to pay anything for a dental visit.

Comment #55: tootiredoftheright  on  11/28  at  03:29 AM

Obama will force those he hires to work toward his goals or fire them.

I would assume that he’s hiring them because they share his goals. Perhaps that should cause some concern as to exactly what those goals are. Campaign speeches ain’t worth shit - it’s actions that tell you what someone really believes. The action of shortlisting Summers for Treasury Sec, and then bringing him in as an advisor when that proved impolitic, indicates to me that Obama’s basically in favour of business-as-usual on the economic front. Of course, this shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone…

Comment #56: Dunc  on  11/28  at  07:13 AM

I just hope he doesn’t advise Obama to pay third world countries to dump our toxic waste for us, because you know… their health isn’t as important as ours is.

Comment #57: pablo  on  11/28  at  01:48 PM

Tootiredoftheright: I don’t want to divert this conversation so I’ll keep it in context.  But I want to point out how you made note of “white” people as a deserving group.  That’s racism plain and simple.  The stereotype that the deserving and undeserving fall within a specific skin color grouping is playing into the hands of those who wish to divide the poor by any means possible and, its just plain untrue. 

But if Larry Summers et al were to apply to the bailout the same principles as applied to applicants for food stamps and cash grants or other assistance then they might have to follow the following rules for qualification:

- that their CEOs and top management can make no more than $60,000 a year, with the savings reinvested into the company
- that their CEOs and top management divest of their stock options, bonuses and other executive perks and have the savings and/or immediate liquidity reinvested back into the company.
- that the companies sell their corporate leer jets with the monies reinvested into the company.
- that the companies divest of all non-automotive or non-banking investments and holdings with the monies reinvested into the company.
- that the CEOs and top management divest of their extra properties, investment holdings, stock options and other executive perks and reinvestment that savings into their company
- that board members divest of their perks as well, including any corporate juntas, fancy retreats or other needless expenditures and the savings reinvested into the company.
- that investment in research and development of globally competitive, alternative energy vehicles begin immediately and on a serious level
- that banks heal the wounds caused by their knowing greed in investing and trading bad loans and other questionable paper
- that those satellite companies that made millions and even billions in these investments be hauled to make accounting for their fraudulent activities.

Only then would I consider that picking through “bad” people at the welfare office, deciding who will have housing, who will have food today is a fair system, knowing that everyone is willing to make their share of sacrifice.

I’ve was on welfare twenty years ago when my kids were small and I couldn’t earn enough to support them (being a woman, unlike any unskilled man who could at that time easily get a decent paying job regardless of his lack of “office skills” or some such) and no well the way its played out. 

I am now a small business owner and when I first started up I put my own funds into the company to get it off the ground and I never asked or expected hand-outs when things got tough, I pulled out of my own pockets because that’s the way I thought it should be. 

With all the blather from the Republicans about how Americans need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, I think the top brass from the auto companies and the banks are in a great position to show us how that’s done.

Comment #58: kate  on  11/28  at  07:51 PM

I’m torn. I trust Obama, and I’m so relieved that he won, but this choice seems really poor to me. You can argue that openly sexist and idiotic views are immaterial here, but I wonder how many open racists are going to have positions in the new administration.

Although, maybe Obama has already selected someone who has openly stated that blacks just don’t learn as well as whites do, and that’s why there are so few black CEOs and I just am unaware of that appointment.

I guess all I’m saying is, I don’t have to like it. And I highly doubt that there wasn’t SOMEONE equally qualified who wasn’t an openly sexist jerk, had they looked long / hard enough. Surely.

Comment #59: Ellen  on  11/28  at  08:41 PM

well, at least i got responses smile and most of them were useful. you are all correct, in that yes of course the same sort of atmosphere will happen in large corporations, etc. i think what i was trying to explain is that people ALWAYS expect government jobs to be, somehow, “easier”.
and yeah, in context with how Canada views our medical system, i can see the comparision and why i should hate our current system (and i Do!) i never meant to imply that i DON’T want a new system, just that i have this one niggling little worry.

Mo: what the HELL is a “Pill”? i feel as if you insulted both myself and my father. because he works his ass off, apparently.
also, you don’t know anything more than i originally posted - you don’t know how long his deparment has been around. he was originally hired, as a contracter, 7 years ago as the core of the then-new department he is still in. he is the only person in his department to get EVERY bonus and raise. because he is the only person in the deparment who consistently does a complete and comptent job, he does almost all of the teaching of new stuff ON TOP of all of his programming work. but, somehow, he is a bad person for doing all the work he is paid to do. and somehow, by extention, *I* am a bad person who works exactly as my father does (which is funny as hell to think about). seriously, wtf was the point to your post, other than trying to insult me and/or convince me to change the way that you think i work because it somehow you are offended by competent people doing all the work they are given? i could wish i had my dad’s work ethic, but no matter how i try i am still not able to work as he does. which i find a MUCH worse situation than the one you describe, wherein i do all this work and am productive and useful.
i grant that because you don’t know me that you don’t know how much you have hurt me (and that i probably shouldn’t be that sensitive to a stranger casting judgement). but, by the same toke, YOU DON’T KNOW ME, so where the hell do you get off, casting judgement and insults around as if YOU have every right to be a jackass?

PiatoR, thank you; those are very useful. at least once i was able to understand the table lol. i am table deficient! i always have trouble reading them.
you are from/in NZ, yes? do you know enough about Canada’s and the US’s systems to compare them to yours? my australian friends says that no one has healthcare as good as the NZs have it… (Zealand? Zeeland? my fucking pain pills make it so hard to spell…)

Comment #60: denelian  on  11/28  at  08:51 PM

you are from/in NZ, yes? do you know enough about Canada’s and the US’s systems to compare them to yours? my australian friends says that no one has healthcare as good as the NZs have it… (Zealand? Zeeland? my fucking pain pills make it so hard to spell…)

Your Australian friends are wrong. The best health levels are probably Japan, and the best performing health system is France.

Comment #61: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  11/29  at  12:40 AM

my friend Vicki just finished an 18 month study-abroad of all of the old british empire (she LOVED India). so she was specificly i guess comparing new zealand to: britian, india, canada, the US and all the other bits she was able to get to. funnily she DID go to france, but had a bad experience, probably i’m guessing because she was a foreigner and they didn’t want to do something she would percieve of as wrong.
my more-than-boyfriend-but-i-refuse-to-marry-him-until-he-quits-overdrafting and i are planning on trying to go to japan and teach for a year or two. so maybe i will get to see it up close! if its as wonderful as you say… maybe the injun and the black guy will stay… hrm.

thank you PiatoR. i hate reading reports, they put me to sleep. even the synopses are boring! but a casual word from you makes it make more sense smile

Comment #62: denelian  on  11/29  at  06:47 AM

thank you PiatoR. i hate reading reports, they put me to sleep. even the synopses are boring! but a casual word from you makes it make more sense

Then you’re making a serious mistake 8-)  I’m just another random asshole on the Internet - you shopuld never trust anyone online unless they give cites for their information and you can check them out and assess it for yourself.

Seriously.  Go and read through this site - it’s one of the standard models for information literacy skills.

I can’t stress this enough, Denelian. Do not look to me or anyone else for the answers - learn to think critically for yourself.

Comment #63: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  11/29  at  07:14 AM

In the late 1990s when I worked at Microsoft, and we were—according to the wisdom of the market!—about as productive as any company had ever been—there were plentiful Nerf wars and LAN parties and long lunches and general goofing off. Your father, denelian, is unusual if he’s a productive programmer *because* he works steadily for many hours. Many people do better in bursts.

A healthy company/bureaucracy/whatever doesn’t judge by `hours worked’, for that reason, but by useful stuff done. This requires competence, forward planning and good faith on the part of management and workers alike, though.  (In my experience, small bureaucracies are fine and big ones infuriating, whether gov’t or commercial.)

Virginia Valian’s _Why So Slow_ has an interesting section on how weak sexism has strong effects over time. In groups—committees, bureaucracies, any groups—you get listened to if you’re one of the people who is usually listened to. It’s hard to start being listened to; a very, very small degree of being favored for sex or race or background can be the important edge that gets you from invisible to up-and-coming. It’s cumulative, because there are many nested inner rings to get to. And it’s reversible; if you are very well accepted, your mistakes are taken as external to you; if you’re barely accepted, your mistakes are a reason to dismiss you again. So, see, this is also a reason why Summers will never be truly outside again (sigh), and something that healthy bureaucracies should have a check-and-balance against.

Comment #64: clew  on  11/30  at  02:35 AM

i think we miscommunicated there lol

you make it easier to understand what i am reading, by making it seem personal instead of abstract. that’s all. i am not “taking your word” per se, i am using the personal anecdotes you provide (plus the base you provided for that information; once you gave me the first websites to look at finding others was MUCH easier) to make what i am reading seem relevant. its a trick i was taught decades ago in AP classes - we would be given hundreds of pages of dry stuff to read every week, and that’s incredibly hard for most people (especially teenagers!) to force themselves to digest. so we would apply the stuff we were studying to one, or a few, specific people. in this case, because of your experience in an enviroment that already has national healthcare, i am able to sort of visualize better by using the personal info you have given me.

Comment #65: denelian  on  11/30  at  06:47 PM
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