Login

Register

Member List

RSS Feed

Amanda | Contact

Auguste | Contact

Jesse | Contact

Pam | Contact

Next entry: Lady Books Previous entry: Marriage FAIL, redux

The face of the LGBT movement and the mainstream media: tackling the diversity problem

DemocratsLGBTMedia

I’ve noticed that there’s a familiar trend of nearly all of the on-air talking heads that represent the LGBT community’s anger with the Obama administration and Congress have been urban gay white men. I have to wonder if this feeds long-held impressions and biases out there that this is a “hissy fit” by a privileged class, albeit a gay one. I’m not saying the representation on-air so far hasn’t been effective; to the contrary, all the interviews and segments covering the issue have been strong.

What I believe hurts our case a bit, from a PR (and strategic) perspective, is that we’ve seen few LGBT people of color on-air as the movement faces off against the first black President and his administration. If you think this shouldn’t matter, well you’re right. But in reality, do you really think it isn’t an issue? You only need to read some of my posts on race and LGBT issues (see “Black, Gay and Reclaiming ‘Civil Rights’” at Huff Post) for a prime example of blowback, and I’m black, for god’s sake.

One of the problems with this is it allows the inaccurate impression that if you’re black and gay, these things aren’t on your radar, or worse, that it’s only white gays who are angry at this President, a black man, something that doesn’t go unnoticed in communities of color. This impression was somewhat exacerbated in a CNN debate between Dan Savage and Stampp Corbin (co-chair of the Obama LGBT Leadership Council during the 2008 campaign). They disagreed on-air about the logistics of DADT repeal in a segment host Campbell Brown framed as “President Obama selling out the gay community” (transcript here).

But what did people

see

in that segment? It was a black man defending the President (asking the gay community to stop asking Obama to move more quickly on DADT). It’s not that simple of course, since Stampp worked for the Obama campaign. But we’re talking about the visual medium and cultural shorthand/bias telegraphed to viewers not keenly attuned to our community and its issues. It’s easy to imagine someone walking away from the TV and thinking “well black gays are defending Obama, so it’s just these white whining gay men again.” You know what I’m talking about.


BTW, Stampp, who agreed on-air with Dan about the DOMA debacle, later announced he wasn’t going to attend the upcoming gay “10,400-sq.-ft spa” fundraiser (featuring Joe Biden and hosted by the only out members of Congress, Barney Frank, Tammy Baldwin and Jared Polis, targeting wealthy gays to hobnob with pols and drop big bucks; many are now dropping out like flies over the admin’s inaction), writing “The DOMA brief ruined everything.” The reality is that one can disagree on one aspect of policy but not another, and support the President overall. Those who are unhappy (enraged, pick your word), usually argue that “oh we’d be better off with the Republicans in power” or some such, but honestly, I can’t see how that’s a useful tack to take. That said, overall support for this President does not equal criticism-free governance, something the apologist set seems to forget; Obama himself said to hold him accountable. His administration’s behavior regarding our issues has been abominable and there are a variety of ways to hold him accountable. As a movement we’ll never all be on the same page.

But back to the matter at hand—I’m grateful, that Rachel Maddow, an out lesbian, is on the air discussing these topics (have we seen any lesbian talking head guests of

any

color?) and that Daniel Choi has been very visible re: DADT. It’s pretty clear that we have a shallow, pale bench to make our cases on the air and it reinforces the stereotype of what “gay” looks like.

The bottom line is that this image problem gives the Obama administration racial and cultural cover it shouldn’t have and doesn’t deserve. When you have POC on the air to represent the grave anger at this administration’s inaction, it shatters the ingrained perceptions of people—and that includes some of our straight progressive “friends”, not just the pols and admin drones—that discussion of these issues affects a broader spectrum of our community. It’s sad that this is the case, but you know we’ve had to deal with this image problem for a long time. Unless it’s right in front of their faces—and that’s the power of the visual medium, for good or ill, people will lean toward their implicit biases.

I don’t have an easy solution for this, mind you, since the MSM is lazy and goes to its rolodexes and picks out people they’ve had on before; it’s not a conspiracy. Oh, and for the skeptics out there eager to think this is self-serving, let’s just quash that straight out—this isn’t a bid on my part to go on-air. I

hated

the experience the two times I did appear on CNN:
1) I had to do it by satellite, so you cannot see who you’re speaking with, and it’s an art to do it well;
2) I do not live in a major media center like NY, LA or DC - I had to drive all the way to Raleigh to a contract studio;
3) I’m not available at the drop of a hat to do it anyway since I have a full-time, unrelated-to-politics day job;
4) I’m not sufficiently telegenic for the MSM; let’s get real; it’s a cruel medium for non-svelte women .

Radio is a lot easier, though the scheduling problems remain the same. I’ve done Skype before—that is still junior-league broadcasting and is still rife enough with technical problems to be unreliable for live TV.

So let’s get back to building a vibrant, diverse media bench—certainly we need to add more women, T-folk and minorities to be effective on-air advocates (and people from outside gay metro areas of the country, another perception problem out there, but there are the above logistical problems to reckon with). It strengthens our game. If the media would ring up POC LGBT orgs, they certainly would find people to put on the air. If the MSM called up the Women’s Media Center for example, an organization that actually holds training for women to build on-air skills, they might net new guests.

However, as I said, the MSM is lazy and has to be spoonfed. I think one of the things the LGBT movement could do, in terms of boosting its effectiveness, is to build that bench and give the MSM an information guide filled with a slew of people they can bring on air to discuss our issues, including the usual people we see. I do, however, see internal political problems ahead, particularly with our organizations, which will have a hard time with the idea of messaging for the community coming from those not affiliated with the “professional gay” sphere.

What none of us can ignore, however, is that on-air media messaging and advocacy can reach the greatest number of people less well-versed in the issues being discussed, and it can have the greatest impact in a single shot. We need our issues represented by a wide range of well-trained members of the community of all stripes to throw down on the air to counteract the stereotypical image of what it looks like to be LGBT.


Qs of the day...

* Do you think that on-air diversity is a problem? If not, why not?
* If so, what can or should be done to help build a deeper bench?

 

------

Registration is now required! We're still in the process of getting it all squared away, so for the moment don't forget to Login or Register using the links in the upper left menu before starting to write your comment.

Posted by Pam Spaulding on 11:23 AM • (32) Comments

Despite my ambivalent feelings on this issue I can honestly say, what I see first and foremost is a President who looks like a serious backpeddler. He was so clearly pro gay rights during the campaign. And now... ?


As far as the two debaters go: The White gentleman appears to be calling it as he sees it & the Black gentleman appears to be unwilling to believe he’s been bamboozled. And… he seems to be saying that the President is slow walking it in an effort to be strategic.

Damn - if I were gay, chances are I probably voted for Obama partially because of his stance on gay rights during the campaign. And at this point I’d feel betrayed now that he’s in office.

I think the President is doing what he does best: Attempting to appeal to everyone simultaneously by picking a “middle ground”. The thing with this issue is - there doesn’t seem to be an obvious middle ground.

Comment #1: Uhura, The Black Gurl  on  06/21  at  11:56 AM

Qs of the day…

* Do you think that on-air diversity is a problem? If not, why not?

Never thought of this, but this post is good because it brings it to light.

If the gay community (ie - Black / White / Male / Female) spoke with one voice, the voice would be louder & more effective - yes?

* If so, what can or should be done to help build a deeper bench?

Gosh - I am not convinced that the gay community is immune to the racism & sexism which plagues the general populace. I see no solidarity between Black gays & White gays… nor between lesbians & male homosexuals.

Comment #2: Uhura, The Black Gurl  on  06/21  at  12:11 PM

Uhura, The Black Gurl  on  06/21  at  10:56 AM
I think the President is doing what he does best: Attempting to appeal to everyone simultaneously by picking a “middle ground”. The thing with this issue is - there doesn’t seem to be an obvious middle ground.

You have two friends. You all want to share a pizza.

One of your friends loves pepperoni and hates pineapple. He’s a nice guy and fun to hang around. He discusses the issue of the pizza rationally and civilly, and if he doesn’t get a pizza he likes, he gives you more rational and civil discussion.

Your other friend loves pineapple and hates pepporoni. He’s a prick, but he’s rich and he’s making you rich and famous both by just hanging out with you. However, he demands the pizza be topped to his specifications, and if the pizza veers from those specifications, he will shank you repeatedly, slicing between the ribs to reach the vitals, and leave you to bleed out on the ground.

Question: What are the toppings on the pizza going to include and exclude?

Obama isn’t attempting to compromise. He’s attempting to grant benefits to one party at the expense of another without being undermined by the latter party. Politicians have a responsibility to transform their constituency. Obama (like most) is doing the opposite—plying the various factions with actual benefits or with mere words. Our side is the one getting the words.

Comment #3: No One of Consequence  on  06/21  at  12:46 PM

I think that Obama may be in for the uncomfortable realization that a progressive movement that is finally capable of pressuring the GOP from the left and the party from the left may also be capable of effectively pressuring a President from the left.

For all of his progressivism, both genuine and feigned, Obama is very much a traditional Beltway Dem in one key respect: he believes he can use the Left in the same way that a celebrity uses a prostitute: I had a use for you, and now that I’m done with you I have no further obligations.  Go.  I sincerely hope that he is the last in a long line of Dem centrists who realize that that can’t be done any more, and the first who has to adapt and listen and respond.

What we’re seeing here is a bit of what Hilary supporters were saying during the primaries: criticize Obama and there are quite a large number of his supporters who will defend him even in the face of clear evidence that he isn’t on their side on the very issue on which they leap to his defence.

Comment #4: seeker6079  on  06/21  at  01:43 PM

The reality is that one can disagree on one aspect of policy but not another, and support the President overall. Those who are unhappy (enraged, pick your word), usually argue that ”oh we’d be better off with the Republicans in power” or some such, but honestly, I can’t see how that’s a useful tack to take.

This.

There appears to be quite a bit of division brewing at both DailyKos and MyDD over the Obama Administration’s handling of LGBT issues, and a false dichotomy has sprung from it - either you are blindly apologetic for anything the president does 100% of the time, or you hate him and wish he wasn’t the president.  Interestingly enough, Markos Moulitsas, who has been the target of a great deal of ire from a number of PUMAs, and has at times been accused of being an outright shill for the president by several PUMA blogs, has come down staunchly against the president on LGBT matters, and has been quite scathing in his criticism of the DOMA brief.

In reality, I think the majority of commenters criticizing the president on this front are essentially just expressing their (quite justified) anger over the issue, not giving a wholesale condemnation of his entire presidency.  Sure, those people exist as well, but many of them have been opposed to his presidency virtually since day one.

It’s getting rather frustrating, because I have generally been a pretty staunch defender of Obama and supported his candidacy from the moment he got into the race, and while I’m still generally happy with his presidency overall, I’m really quite disgusted with his handling of LGBT matters.  It isn’t a personal battle for me, as I’m not a member of the LGBT community, it’s a human rights’ matter - I wasn’t alive for the civil rights battles of the 1960s, but this feels very much to me like what I imagine those fights were like.  And I get so disgusted at the thought of how many of my fellow hetero people are on this issue… I just want to ask, “Why the fuck do you care?  How does any of this take anything away from you?”

Anyway, I am pretty critical of Obama when I respond to any diaries on this subject, and I invariably end up getting accused of being a PUMA or some such nonsense, despite how frequently I make comments that speak very favorably of the president.

I don’t like this need for absolute purity in our ranks.  We’re not freaking Republicans, or at least I would like to think that we aren’t.  We can be substantively critical of our leaders - even extremely popular ones like President Obama - without having it being turned into questioning our loyalty to the party.

And putting pressure on the president when he is dropping the ball on a particular matter shouldn’t be equated with hating him or regretting his victory.  The bottom line is, in my opinion, however frustrating Obama can be on a few issues, would I really prefer things right now if President McCain were heading into the sixth month of his administration?  That’s a question that reasonable people shouldn’t have to spend more than 2 seconds contemplating.

Comment #5: DTG in STL  on  06/21  at  01:44 PM

That said, overall support for this President does not equal criticism-free governance, something the apologist set seems to forget

The MSM is still firmly in GOP-think—remember how any criticism of the President was terrorism and anti-American and damn near treasonous? 

It’s team-think Our team, right or wrong.  It’s a debate-style: I’m a Democrat, therefore I will defend everything my leader says.

It’s bullshit and idiocy.

Obama is light-years aheadof McCain in every possible way.  We are infinitely better off without McCain in the White House.  Even George Will called McCain out this week on foreign policy—McCain’s supposed strong suite against Obama.

That said, better than McCain is faint praise.

Competency, while a vast improvement, is barely acceptable.

This middle-of-the-road, bipartisanship crap is why Barrack was not my first choice.  He did sucker me in, but he’s reminding me why he wasn’t #1.

It doesn’t matter what he does right, when he is also actively doing wrong.  We can praise him and vote for him and fight for him when he’s right, but when he’s wrong, like he is here, or like he is with health care?  Fuck that shit.  You do not get my support for acting like you have corporate sponsorship.

As I’ve said before, we need to fight harder now that Obama’s in power.  We need to send increasingly progressive people to Congress to push him.  Arlen Specter needs to go DOWN: he’s not an acceptable Democrat by a long shot.

They will fight us.  Ned Lamont got no love when he beat Joe Lieberman in the largest primary turnout ever in CT.  Left alone Rahm Emanuel will pay attention only during election years He was not a 50-state strategy supporter.

We need to keep the 50 state strategy and keep fighting for the left.  Progress is hard.  People don’t like to change

Comment #6: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  06/21  at  02:51 PM

We can praise him and vote for him and fight for him when he’s right, but when he’s wrong, like he is here, or like he is with health care?

Just out of curiosity, where’s your issue with his health-care stance?  That he’s not pushing single-payer, or that he’s not defending public option more fiercely?

If it’s because he isn’t pushing single-payer, I don’t think it’s fair criticism.  I would LOVE to have single-payer healthcare in the US, but with this Congres, there is absolutely ZERO chance of it happening.  It wasn’t even considered.  Which is tragic, but I don’t fault Obama for that.  Now one could argue that he could have pushed for such reform, but let’s not kid ourselves… single payer was never on the table, and was never gonna be on the table.  Even if Obama supported such a system 100%, Congress would have never given him such legislation.  And Hillary Clinton would not have succeeded in getting single-payer passed, either.  No president would - this Congress, even with strong Democratic majorities, is still entirely too beholden to the health insurance industry to even give such legislation consideration.

Considering how much fighting is going on just to get enough votes to get a public option, I see no possible chance that Congress would have been able to get even 1/3 Congressional support for single-payer right now.

Now if the criticism is that he’s not being effective enough at stopping the Republicans and Conservadems from railroading the public option, I’m with you.  And that’s a fair criticism - I know that he supports a system with a public option, but he’s not being strong enough in demanding that a public option be implemented.  And frankly, I would just assume do nothing to the current system rather than give up the public option.  I don’t think any other pseudo-reform will do anything good, and could very well wind up hurting Obama and the Democrats in the long run - Dr. Dean’s analysis was that it would effectively be flushing a trillion dollars down the toilet for no appreciable change.

Obama needs to come out and say that he will veto any legislation that does not include a public option.  Period.  If Congress fails to deliver, our healthcare system’s continued decline will fall completely on the Republicans and conservative Democrats.  If he signs a piece of legislation without a public option, however, he owns it, along with the Democrats in Congress.  And when it fails, the Republicans will reap the benefit.

Comment #7: DTG in STL  on  06/21  at  03:15 PM

The McCain/Obama comparison is a false dichotomy. The chance for advancement was in the primaries, and the Obama and Clinton supporters fucked the U.S. over by failing to recognize that until, well, now.

Similarly, the comparison is irrelevant now, since the presidential election was fait acompli before the polls rolled in. It simply wasn’t interesting—unlike the primary.

Now the relevant question isn’t how do we control Obama but instead how would we replace him? Concentrating on means of influencing Obama is ludicrous fail. That method facilitated Clinton driving the country’s policies further right, and it’s what enabled Bush to crawl into office.

Rightwingers pushed the Republican party further right with some staggeringly pragmatic thinking. Their aims were evil, but their methods (in this particular instance) contain no moral color. They were forward-thinking—when a pol pissed them off by not being nasty enough, they worked to undermine that pol in the long term, even if it cost them a seat, temporarially.

If progressives cannot think in terms of shifting the electorate and the representatives in a revolutionary fashion, they do nothing but waste time.

The relevant, non-rhetorical question is: if Obama continues to oppose civil rights, what is the correct political response? An intelligent actor would conclude that if a pol opposed your basic human rights, he is an adversary, party affiliation be damned, and act accordingly. The Repugs drew that conclusion and have purged their party since the 80s—and the only reason they haven’t completely won is because their policies are so damned anti-populist that they can’t keep the public on their side. Are we willing to crush a pol even if he smiles and says nice things?

Comment #8: No One of Consequence  on  06/21  at  03:20 PM

Concentrating on means of influencing Obama is ludicrous fail.

Denying the DNC cash is clearly making Obama and Rahm sweat, and that’s why they are scrambling to throw something on the wall that LGBTs will find acceptable. Unfortunately, the meager offerings represent NONE of the promises candidate Obama stress were his priority. He dug this hole for himself and the gAyTM is now closed.

Comment #9: Pam Spaulding  on  06/21  at  03:39 PM

I would LOVE to have single-payer healthcare in the US, but with this Congres, there is absolutely ZERO chance of it happening.  It wasn’t even considered.  Which is tragic, but I don’t fault Obama for that.  Now one could argue that he could have pushed for such reform, but let’s not kid ourselves… single payer was never on the table, and was never gonna be on the table.  Even if Obama supported such a system 100%, Congress would have never given him such legislation.  And Hillary Clinton would not have succeeded in getting single-payer passed, either.  No president would - this Congress, even with strong Democratic majorities, is still entirely too beholden to the health insurance industry to even give such legislation consideration.

If it isn’t the president’s job to shape his electorate and affect the make-up of Congress, then he doesn’t have a job at all. Arguing otherwise is literally claiming that the president’s job is not one of leadership. If Obama cannot even begin to formulate a plan to change the content of Congress (and, with that obviously, the process that makes terrible Congresspeople end up and stay in office) then he lacks the basic requirements of the job. He may as well be unable to read or speak English.

This is an absurd conclusion, obviously: Obama does not lack will or skill. He simply doesn’t give a rat’s ass. It’s like arguing that a corrupt cop simply needs better training. If I had a neighborhood backing a cop acting as a shakedown artist and they responded with that attitude, I’d move.

Clinton was a good example of how political skill can work against one’s electorate. His methods and policies fueled a right-wing grab for the Congress that would have been utterly unthinkable before his first term. Clinton didn’t make an error; instead, he was concerned with his own political agenda and priorities at the expense of “his” party (party affiliation is a bit of a canard, but let’s not digress). Triangulation assured his power and cost Democratic seats and gave the U.S. a Republican majority. Clinton would read that last sentence and stop at the word “power.”

Obama needs to come out and say that he will veto any legislation that does not include a public option. 

As we used to say, the only thing Obama needs to do is stay black and die. (Mr. Jackson kinda took the punch out of that aphorism.) Barring those eventualities, Obama’s options include playing both sides down the middle for fun and/or profit.

Comment #10: No One of Consequence  on  06/21  at  03:52 PM

If it isn’t the president’s job to shape his electorate and affect the make-up of Congress, then he doesn’t have a job at all.

I didn’t know that Barack Obama was the president on November 4, 2008, when the current Congress was voted into office, or that he had the power to pick and choose Congresspeople in the middle of a term.

Thanks for the head’s up.

Comment #11: DTG in STL  on  06/21  at  04:09 PM

I’d like to get back to Pam’s original point of the lack of gay diversity in the corporate media. It’s a good one. I don’t know anything about how people get selected to appear on TV shows, who does the selecting, what the criteria are, etc. Is there a practical way of addressing this from our side? I mean, if Dan Savage gets a call to be on TV in an hour, should he say, “No, pick that black person”?

How do we put a diverse group forward as those we want to appear on TV? If Pam’s point is the meta image of a white man arguing a black man is not good, how do we know ahead of time who will be representing the other side and what would be the most effective person to pit against him or her on every level?

Lastly, in a post that is supposed to promote diversity, Pam, you say this:

I’m not sufficiently telegenic for the MSM; let’s get real; it’s a cruel medium for non-svelte women

Aren’t non-svelte women a part of our diversity? Whose rules are we going to play by, theirs or ours?

Comment #12: David B.  on  06/21  at  04:13 PM

Are we willing to crush a pol even if he smiles and says nice things?

If the question is, “Am I willing to vote for Obama’s Republican opponent in 2012 to help purge the party?”, the answer is almost certainly no, unless said Republican nominee is a progressive leftist with a record that attests to that.

Comment #13: DTG in STL  on  06/21  at  04:25 PM

Aren’t non-svelte women a part of our diversity? Whose rules are we going to play by, theirs or ours?

It is part of our diversity, but take a look at the MSM. The producers do the selecting, it appears that, at least for women, they’ve worked out some batsh*t formula in their heads that the increase in the number of pounds = equal points drop in IQ. So I didn’t set the rules of the bookers, nor do I want to play by them, but honestly I think you’ll see more diversity of color before size (just my two cents). Notice men have a wider latitude in terms of telegenic standards.

Comment #14: Pam Spaulding  on  06/21  at  04:50 PM

Notice men have a wider latitude in terms of telegenic standards.

Limbaugh on the left Ed Schultz comes to mind.

Comment #15: DTG in STL  on  06/21  at  04:57 PM

Useful article here.

Comment #16: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  06/21  at  05:21 PM

Interesting footnote: After the CNN debate with Dan Savage, Stampp Corbin actually read the DOMA brief.  He then promptly announced that he was pulling out of the DNC gay fundraiser.

Comment #17: BABH  on  06/21  at  05:55 PM

I didn’t know that Barack Obama was the president on November 4, 2008, when the current Congress was voted into office, or that he had the power to pick and choose Congresspeople in the middle of a term.

Playing stupid is one thing, but failure to read is simply tedious. The facts making the quoted statement idiotic were already stated upthread. If you want to forget Clinton’s influence on the contents of Congress, serious political discussion may not be your thing—perhaps you should try rightwing blogs. Or poo-flinging.

If the question is, “Am I willing to vote for Obama’s Republican opponent in 2012 to help purge the party?”

No, the question, apparently, for you, is “Can I ignore the original poster’s point, create a loaded question, promote a strawman argument and serve up bullshit to hide my own argument’s inadequacies?”

You ignored earlier comments on points of control during primaries and the implication that there is more to modern politics than the classic Repug-Dem presidential horserace.

Looks like you took up poo-flinging after all. Really, there’s a rightwing blog waiting for your input. Run, don’t walk.

Pam Spaulding  on  06/21  at  02:39 PM:
He dug this hole for himself and the gAyTM is now closed.

If they can take a stand long enough to get more than a rhetorical retreat, I might actually have to consider making a positive statement about this mess. It’s not iron political discipline yet, but it would be a start.

Comment #18: No One of Consequence  on  06/21  at  06:08 PM

Inconsequential Nobody,

You stated that a significant part of the president’s job is to influence the makeup of Congress, and intimated that Congress unwillingness to consider single-payer healthcare was a failing of President Obama’s.  The implication was directly that it was somehow Barack Obama’s fault that our current Congress isn’t made up of more progressive people.

I refuted that ridiculous tripe by pointing out the reality that Barack Obama has been president for exactly 5 months and 1 day, and as such there hasn’t yet been a national Congressional election since his inauguration, thus making it impossible for him as president to have any real sway on who was elected last November when he himself was still just a member of Congress at the time.

You seem to want to blame President Obama for who happens to be in Congress right now, which is just ridiculous nonsense.

Now troll away.

Comment #19: DTG in STL  on  06/21  at  08:30 PM

You stated that a significant part of the president’s job is to influence the makeup of Congress—

—Wait, what? So you can read? So is there any excuse for behaving like a dick upthread? So is there any evidence you were doing more than trolling before?

The implication was directly that it was somehow Barack Obama’s fault that our current Congress isn’t made up of more progressive people.

Ah, you can read, but you’d rather make up a strawman argument, as before, then actually engage. Since you can read, you know I never said that. Obviously, I pointed out that presidential leadership affects the Congressional body itself.

I refuted that ridiculous tripe by pointing out the reality that Barack Obama has been president for exactly 5 months and 1 day—

You didn’t refute a goddamn thing. Stating the day Obama became president doesn’t do anything to show that presidential leadership can’t affect other offices. You didn’t even adress a thing I said. You’re actually lying, right now, about something approximately five posts above you. It’s right there.

I NEVER claimed that Obama would use magical powers to change the makeup of Congress overnight. My consistent position is that it isn’t part of his agenda, due to a difference of values between himself and progressives. You made up that strawman.

If you had any credibility whatsoever, would you have begun your post with a purile attempt to mock my handle name? Seriously, no joke: you are trolling. Please take it to a rightwing site.

Comment #20: No One of Consequence  on  06/21  at  10:27 PM

stop, please

you guys are arguing two different things. DTG is getting that people are expecting Obama to take responsibility for things that it is literally impossible for Obama to take responsibility (or blame) for, and he is seeing what he thinks is another version of this same argument from No One.

so: NOOC is saying that Obama needs to start making a concerted effort to sway the current Congress his way. DTG is saying that Obama probably can’t affect the current Congress, and efforts needs to be put forth to elect in a *different* body of people to be Congress.

in general, to everyone - when someone mis-understands what you are saying, and it is obviously *NOT* someone deliberately trolling by calling offensive names, could we just stop and make sure that everyone is one the same page before we start fighting?
because, while i grant that it is *really* easy to get pissed when someone doesn’t understand you and then repeats what s/he *thinks* you said as what you actually said - us fighting over little misunderstandings like this only make it easier for those who oppose us attack us - this thread could be used by a right blogger as an “example of what the left *really thinks*, and would be easy to mock and make fun of.

i don’t mean to sound like a mother-hen or something, but the infighting over misunderstandings has gotten kind of bad lately. and it appears to me (YMMV) that 90% of these are literal, actual instances where one person misunderstood what the other was saying.

On Topic - Pam, while i donate to a few LGBT-type organizations, i don’t participate (because even when i could physically do things, i never could do a whole lot), so i don’t know how realistic this is - but can some of the bigger/richer/more influential start lobbying to have non-white-men invited more often as spokespeople? like, if CNN calls NOW (which is not LGBT, i am just using an analogy) and asks for a person to comment, NOW can offer a lesbian-of-color instead of a straight white woman sort of deal? or call the various MSM and offer a list of experts? (an adendum to their list of experts)?

the only other ideas i have revolve around more civil disobedience, which is not at all the same as getting interview time…

Comment #21: denelian  on  06/22  at  03:48 AM

Competency, while a vast improvement, is barely acceptable.

This middle-of-the-road, bipartisanship crap is why Barrack was not my first choice.  He did sucker me in, but he’s reminding me why he wasn’t #1.

So..Caren. Who was your first choice? LOL!

I think you’re just feeling the betrayal @ this point. Middle of the road and wide reaching appeal is exactly why many people liked Obama & still do.

Comment #22: Uhura, The Black Gurl  on  06/22  at  09:48 AM

...in general, to everyone - when someone mis-understands what you are saying, and it is obviously *NOT* someone deliberately trolling by calling offensive names, could we just stop and make sure that everyone is one the same page before we start fighting?

I’ll add to this by saying: Just because someone disagrees with your fundamental assumptions does not make them a troll.

I have repeatedly stated that “troll” is used so often here it’s &^%$#ing misused… like a $3.00 whore.

Comment #23: Uhura, The Black Gurl  on  06/22  at  12:56 PM

You’re right, Uhura, troll should be sparing applied only to clear cases when there is irrefutable evidence that the person is only playing around and not being serious about the subject.

Say, someone who claims to ‘know’ that because they ‘know’ about the ethnic group they belong to, position A will never be held by a majority of said ethnic group.

Comment #24: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  06/22  at  04:18 PM

Oh…My bad - Are we speaking again? Because I’m still ignoring you.

You’re one of the fraking idjuts who doesn’t know how & when to use the word “troll” and who insists upon taking the convo away from the main point in an effort to play pin the tail on the troll.

Here’s the main funny:

The core definition of a troll is not someone who disagrees with you on fundamentals. It’s not someone who is making jokes. It’s not even someone who is uneducated or mistaken. It’s someone who attempts to DERAIL the convo.

That’s you.

Comment #25: Uhura, The Black Gurl  on  06/22  at  08:07 PM

Because I’m still ignoring you.

You’re one of the fraking idjuts who doesn’t know how & when to use the word “troll” and who insists upon taking the convo away from the main point in an effort to play pin the tail on the troll.

You know, PiatoR and others have survived being called a troll with much more equanimity than you’ve displayed in your postings here. 

The core definition of a troll is not someone who disagrees with you on fundamentals. It’s not someone who is making jokes. It’s not even someone who is uneducated or mistaken. It’s someone who attempts to DERAIL the convo.

Like this?

If I tole you once, I have tole you a million times….You folks need to stop equating being gay with being Black.

Black people find it offensive.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled bitching.

Comment #26: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  06/22  at  08:29 PM

I’m thinking that either way you slice it, the two gentlemen which appeared in the clip canceled each other out…The thing is: The gay community needs to speak with one strong voice.

It appears to me that the President has a serious case of The Backpeddals on this one.

Comment #27: Uhura, The Black Gurl  on  06/22  at  08:57 PM

Oh…My bad - Are we speaking again? Because I’m still ignoring you.

Hmm…

Comment #28: Clio  on  06/22  at  10:02 PM

Oh…My bad - Are we speaking again? Because I’m still ignoring you.

Hmm…


Nope, didn’t look that way to me either, clio.
I suppose it just flies over everyone that both the men were gay?  That looks to be a MSM framing problem that they did nothing to correct.

Comment #29: helen w. h.  on  06/23  at  10:21 AM

Screw you both.

Comment #30: Uhura, The Black Gurl  on  06/23  at  01:46 PM

She explained gently.

Comment #31: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  06/23  at  05:09 PM

LOL!

Comment #32: Uhura, The Black Gurl  on  06/23  at  08:48 PM
Page 1 of 1 pages
Commenting is not available in this channel entry.