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Next entry: I Enjoyed The Obama Impeachment Previous entry: Persecuted Like Them

The great taboo

In writing this post, I want to make one thing very clear up front: I do not like the movie “Dirty Dancing”.  How could you, really?  It engages in stereotypes about sexually liberated working class people (versus repressed upper middle class people), it flirts with being a musical but doesn’t commit, and it has that cliched 80s wish fulfillment ending where everyone who has been oppressing our hero/heroine realized their mistakes and makes it up to them by gathering around and applauding.  Worst of all, it pairs classic mid-century pop music with the worst sort of 80s pap, some of which is sung by Patrick Swayze.  It’s a timid, stupid film.  Which is why it’s all the more interesting that it does make one move that seems risky, especially by today’s standards: it portrays abortion honestly.  It’s remarkable, really, because the script is so implausible, but in the realm of portrayals of abortion, the one in “Dirty Dancing” is bafflingly at the top of the list of most realistic portrayals.  The woman who gets the abortion is a good person and she contextualizes it in terms of can’t—-can’t be pregnant, can’t have a baby, it’s just can’t.  Getting money for it and getting the time off of work are the biggest issues for her.  And when it goes wrong, we very clearly see the social assumptions behind abortion bans, and they have nothing to do with “life”—-Baby’s father, who is a doctor (and the unsubtle stand-in for our sexually repressed society), is aggravated at the licentious behavior he believes led up to this moment and blames the nearest young man for the predicament in a show of paternalism.  That’s it in a nutshell.  Abortion bans are about a paternalistic, condescending attitude about women’s agency and a general uneasiness about sex.  “Dirty Dancing” is one of the least subtle movies ever made, and that’s part of the abortion storyline.  But at least it’s honest, which is so rare in movies and shows that portray abortion that it ends up standing out as a brave storytelling choice.

Naturally, someone has to fuck with it.  Before the election, a reader sent me this blog post from the Chicago Reader about a stage adaptation of “Dirty Dancing”, and now that we’re back to pre-election frenzy blogging, I have the time to write it up.  The play is a straight adaptation with very few changes, but of course they couldn’t let Penny have her abortion and survive it without shame, as she does in the movie.

Among the very few differences between the original screen version and this cotton-candy dance-party of a show, one is glaring: a scene in which the heroine’s mom expounds on the joy of holding one’s first child, while the knocked-up-and-abandoned botched-back-room-abortion survivor, Penny Johnson (played by the extraordinary Britta Lazenga), dissolves in anguish.

The scene lands with a thud and feels like a cautionary, patched-on bow to audiences thought to be more conservative than they were 20 years ago.

Apparently the screenwriter adapted the movie for the stage.  I can only guess her logic was thinking that the entire rest of the movie panders shamelessly to people’s prejudices, so this part had to be written so it’s a pure pandering extravaganza.  What next?  A version of “Fast Times At Ridgemont High” where Stacy decides against the abortion, and it compels Mike to shape up, get a job, marry her, become a decent lover, and they live happily ever after?  Why not?  You could even have him say, “You complete me,” as a shoutout to Cameron Crowe’s lesser work. 

Equally aggravating is the way that “Boston Legal” decided to tackle abortion in a recent episode. Amie has a write-up here.  There’s many, many things about this that irritate, including the way abortion is portrayed as an existentialist dilemma for the poor men tasked with controlling women’s lives, instead of a practical issue for women.  But with all that going on in this show, the ending might be the topper on a cake made of horseshit:

The 15 year old pregnant teen? Well, as is so typical with judicial bypass cases (and, yes, I’m being sarcastic), she is actually an immigrant from China pregnant with a girl and decides, influenced by China’s one-child policy and the unspoken but widespread practice of aborting females, she is only having an abortion because the fetus growing inside her is female.

i have no doubt that the writers were patting themselves on the back for writing such a daring and creative storyline, so outside of the norm.  But if they really wanted to be brave, they would have tackled the great taboo against showing a character who has an abortion and isn’t crazy or especially torn up about it.  If they wanted to do a show about judicial bypass, they might have been super-duper unbelievably brave and pulled a case from real life.  Not too many immigrants who are under the “influence” of laws in countries they don’t live in.  Molly Ivins once wrote a really good article about it that would be an excellent resource for a writer who actually wants to write a brave, challenging storyline on abortion, because she draws from the real drama of real lives.

Social worker for a 13-year-old: “She ran away from her foster home and was gone for eight weeks. Now she’s in an emergency shelter and is pregnant.
Her mother is deceased. Her father raped her when she was 8 years old and is still in prison for it. I knew her when she had to testify against him. I don’t know if I can convince her to go back to court, but she definitely wants an abortion.”

Boyfriend of a 15-year-old: “She can’t report anything to the police about what her stepfather does to the family. He works for the department. And this is a very small town. The family seems to live in fear of him.”

“My older sister got pregnant when she was 17. My mother pushed her against the wall, slapped her across the face and then grabbed her by the hair, pulled her through the living room, out the front door and threw her off the porch. We don’t know where she is now.” — pregnant 16-year-old.

“My little sister was raped. Our parents are somewhere in Mexico, but I don’t know if I can find them.” — older sister.

And so on.  Nothing there that wouldn’t make for compelling television, if that’s your concern.  Of course, all of this would make the anti-choice lawyers on the show look like absolute monsters, but that sort of brave realism would also be a refreshing change of pace, no?  The evil that lurks in the heart of William Shatner and all that. 

You know, I remember reading an interesting rumor about the creator of “Boston Legal”, who also created the legendary incredible shrinking actress show “Ally McBeal”.  I don’t remember where I read it, but I remember Courtney Thorne-Smith complaining about how David E. Kelley would roam the set of “Ally McBeal” and take food away from actresses who had the nerve to think they could eat and be on his show.  I will let readers, who are excellent at drawing inferences, determine if there’s relevance to that.  But what’s not a rumor was that he thought it was funny to have Ally followed around by an imaginary baby.  What Kelley knows about women could fit in a thimble.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 08:27 PM • (103) Comments

Did anyone else catch the House episode where the woman is a lesbian, gets pregnant, has severe complications, House is operating on her and the arm reaches out and grabs his finger!

I was about to grab my nearly 200 pound tv and chuck it down the basement stairs! He ends up saying, after they find some reason that the kids lives, that he would still have killed it if the thing didn’t come around. He did refuse, up to nearly the very end, to call it a child.

I was about to have my head explode because of the stupid ‘abortion is bad’ strong sub plot…

Comment #1: PinkyLeftBrain  on  11/11  at  08:38 PM

I always thought that when her abortion went wrong it was meant by the movie makers to be punishment for having had an abortion.  I was quite angry about it at the time.

Comment #2: pablo  on  11/11  at  08:47 PM

Oh, I always thought it was about how illegal abortion is dangerous, and it should be legalized.  None of her friends shun her or anything.

Comment #3: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/11  at  08:50 PM

I watched Dirty Dancing for the first time a few months ago and my abiding memory is that the sure sign Jennifer Grey’s preppy boyfriend is an areshole is that he recommends Ayn Rand for her to read. “I’ve underlined the best passages. It’s about people like us.” Awesome.

Comment #4: Rockit  on  11/11  at  08:58 PM

Ally McBeal was okay for the first few episodes.  It was such a hit that during its second seaon, they decided to market the first season as a syndicated half-hour “Ally” with some ‘deleted scenes filling in.

I remember watching the show one evening and being obsessed with Callista Flockheart’s shoulders.  She was wearing a sleeveless turtleneck, and her shoulders were so sharp they looked like they had ripped through the sleeves.

The next day I happened across “Ally” showing a chopped up premiere episode.  Callista is sitting in front of a mirror wearing a towel.  She’s still thin, but she has human, rounded shoulders.

What the hell happened on that set?  What the hell is wrong with Hollywood?

As for abortion, “All My Children” used to be the ‘issues’ soap.  It had the first AIDS character (Cindy contracted AIDS from her hetero drug-using ex-hubby) on a soap, and it also had an abortion early on. 

We’ve grown so damn reactionary, that not only is it impossible for anyone on a soap to get an abortion anymore, but in a freak re-write, apparently Erica’s ‘aborted baby’ wasn’t aborted after all.  The doctor who “aborted” the baby took it and raised it.  Cause that makes total sense and well, you can’t have a major character who was happy to have had an abortion.

Even “Grey’s Anatomy” couldn’t follow through with Christina’s abortion.  She had to have an ectopic pregnancy that ruptured.  Yeah, that meant that since Seattle Grace has the worst HIPAA practices ever, that the father of the child found out that Christina was pregnant…but there had to be a better way.  And how much better if someone had actually had a real-life pregnancy crisis and took care of the issue by aborting.  Without losing her mind and collapsing in tears or losing her future fertility.

Shit.  Is it really the 21st century?  Why is a common medical procedure verboten on TV?

I can’t stand “House” b/c he’s so damn unethical, but it’s par for the course that he’d want to abort a pregnancy b/c he hates children, not because it’s a logical choice between saving the mother’s life and letting her die.

Comment #5: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  11/11  at  09:00 PM

If political reporters can be bugf*ck stupid enough to think that it’s edgy to write about democrats being too liberal, are we really surprised that the people who write light entertainment think they’re being profound by shaming women who have abortions?

OK, that was a rhetorical question. I expect that anyone who wanted to write about abortion sanely or produce shows ditto got tired of the boycotts and the death threats and gave up. That’s one aspect of domestic terrorism I hope the new administration takes a good look at.

Comment #6: paul  on  11/11  at  09:02 PM

Yeah, that one annoyed me.  Of course he didn’t call it a baby, it wasn’t, wasn’t likely to survive, and he explains throughout the show why he’s doing so.  My family ended up with a tradition of talking about a fetus as not a person, but fetus - a potential life, that we hoped would be with us next year, but weren’t certain.  My mother had had several miscarriages in previous (planned) attempts.  But House is on Fox, the only reason we have an atheist hero is for everyone to hate him, since it’s on Fox.  My spouse refuses to watch the show because the commercials infuriate her so.

Also, there’s a few typos in your post… “Not too many immigrants who are under the “influence” of laws in countries they don’t live in.” I think you have a superfluous ‘who’ in there.  That wasn’t the only one I found, but…

Comment #7: Crissa  on  11/11  at  09:04 PM

Did anyone else catch the House episode where the woman is a lesbian, gets pregnant, has severe complications, House is operating on her and the arm reaches out and grabs his finger!

My first impulse was to chant “ET.  Phone home.”  Because if we’re departing from realism this much, why short change yourself at the last mile?  Not that “House” has been known to cling to medical reality much anyway.

Fuck it.  You’re more likely to get a serious abortion debate out of Family Guy than you are out of any live action prime time soup opera.  They gave the lesbian Huntington’s disease too.  :-p Just say’n.

Comment #8: Zifnab25  on  11/11  at  09:07 PM

Did anyone else catch the House episode where the woman is a lesbian, gets pregnant, has severe complications, House is operating on her and the arm reaches out and grabs his finger!

Oh, I stopped watching “House” when they had the episode this season where the embryo has attached itself to (I think) the intestine instead of inside the uterus and it’s supposed to be a Big Moral Dilemma about terminating a pregnancy that can’t possibly continue.  Either the fetus dies naturally and has to be removed, or it stays where it is, ruptures the mother’s intestine, and they both die.

Why is “House” trying to pretend that ending an ectopic pregnancy is any kind of moral dilemma?!?  Assholes.  And I really liked Doris Egan’s sci-fi books, too.  Now they’re ruined for me.

Though it was funny in that episode that they gave Hugh Laurie all kinds of anti-feminist lines that he delivered with zero conviction.  He just had this look of, “It’s in my contract to read these lines, but I’m not going to like it.”

Comment #9: Mnemosyne  on  11/11  at  09:10 PM

The House episode was an hour long set up for the Cuddy pregnancy arc that may finally be ending.  And while the patient is obviously Anne Liebowitz by another name, she wasn’t a lesbian.

Comment #10: Rob  on  11/11  at  09:24 PM

The link to Amie’s post doesn’t seem to be working.  Wondered if I could get the web address, please? 

And I saw that episode of “Boston Legal” too.  What a disappointment.

Comment #11: Piano Woman  on  11/11  at  09:24 PM

Laurie (or Fry or both) gets a big thumbs up from me for the scene they inserted into one of the Jeeves and Wooster stories, where it’s made clear that Honoria Glossop isn’t any happier about the engagement that Bertie is.

Comment #12: MissPrism  on  11/11  at  09:26 PM

Erica’s ‘aborted baby’ wasn’t aborted after all.  The doctor who “aborted” the baby took it and raised it. 

Awesome.  That’s pure, unadulterated fear of a letter-writing campaign.

Comment #13: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/11  at  09:26 PM

I still hold a place in my heart for Dirty Dancing.  *hangs head in shame*

Comment #14: roro80  on  11/11  at  09:34 PM

Piano, it’s working for me.  They’ve been up and down all day.  Server problems.

Comment #15: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/11  at  09:36 PM

roro, I still like Dirty Dancing too.  So you’re not alone in you bad movie taste.

Comment #16: ks  on  11/11  at  09:42 PM

Not going to lie, I freaking love Dirty Dancing.

Oh, I always thought it was about how illegal abortion is dangerous, and it should be legalized.  None of her friends shun her or anything.

I always interpreted it this way as well.  Also she is overjoyed when Baby’s father tells her that she can still have children.  The filmmakers were very clear: good person stuck in crappy situation gets screwed by anti-woman policies.

Also, Patrick Swayze.

Comment #17: LauraB  on  11/11  at  10:36 PM

Dirty Dancing is a guilty pleasure movie for me. Firstly because I was a dancer growing up and I adore movies with good dancing in them. But also because they dealt with the abortion not only without shaming or killing Penny, but they showed the financial and work related impact of an unintended pregnancy. And because Baby’s father actually learned something.

And because, well…I had a Johnny Castle in my life too. wink

Comment #18: Broce  on  11/11  at  10:40 PM

Why do liberals hate children? especially unborn children?

Comment #19: Larry  on  11/11  at  11:05 PM

Larry, we don’t hate children.  How could anyone hate something that tasty?

Comment #20: rowmyboat  on  11/11  at  11:10 PM

That sucks. I generally like Boston Legal a lot.

Comment #21: Rebecca  on  11/11  at  11:13 PM

No one puts baby in the national review corner (speaking of abortions).

Comment #22: DanF  on  11/11  at  11:20 PM

Do liberals believe in sex selective abortions?

Many girls in China and India are being aborted, thats why we have a severe gender imbalence there now…

*so-called feminists yawn*

Comment #23: Larry  on  11/11  at  11:30 PM

Did anyone see the Law & Order where the pregnant woman was in a coma, and her husband had the option of:

- keeping her alive to carry the fetus to term (odds = pretty good for baby’s survival, but would definitely kill her)

OR

- aborting the fetus to give her a 5% chance of survival.

The husband decides to go for the abortion and all the “good guys” are horrified*. There is absolutely no questioning of the idea that it is absurd and/or evil to perform an abortion when she’s “probably” going to die anyway. There was a total and strikingly callous disregard of any concept of woman’s life/health being important.


*The husband turns out to be bad anyway because later it is revealed he only wanted to abort the fetus because it carried a gay gene and he was homophobic. But my main point of complaint stands.

Comment #24: Anonymous  on  11/11  at  11:39 PM

I’d really like to see someone do “hospital show” right…like the Wire did “cop show” right.  I’m sure that setting would still generate drama and pathos and everything if a show actually attempted, y’know, verisimilitude.  Or (gasp) a liberal take on issues like health care or abortion.

Comment #25: Ami  on  11/11  at  11:41 PM

dirty dancing is a guilty pleasure.  i think part of the reason, other than having watched it eight zilliion times as a kid, is that it revels in its awfulness.  60s movie with all time-period appropriate music? heck no, we don’t need that—it’s the 80s! we can do whatever we want so THERE!

i interpreted the abortion episode as a positive one (tbh that’s probably the first time i was ever actually confronted with abortion as a kid) and that the message was that it shouldn’t be illegal and that women who get them shouldn’t be ostracized or called sluts.

i watched ally mcbeal in college and i thought parts of it were enjoyable, but while we’re on the subject(ish), can i just say how much that show went downhill and lost direction completely after robert downey jr had to leave?  and the ending where they randomly give ally a child (her egg donation daughter?) at the end and bam! she’s completed pissed me off so much.  i really, really can’t stand lazy writers who can’t figure out what to do with a female character’s development anymore, so they just give her a baby.

Comment #26: chareth  on  11/11  at  11:44 PM

Without giving away any spoilers, I’d also point to the last episode of this season’s Mad Men as an interesting presentation of women’s abortion choices (or lack thereof) during the same time period as Dirty Dancing. It put an appropriately ambiguous capper on a season that was all about women’s (slo-ow) empowerment in the early 1960s.

Dirty Dancing itself? I wasn’t really the target audience, and my response to the movie as a teenager to the present bears that out. The very blunt abortion sequence in Fast Times at Ridgemont High, on the other hand, has stayed with me (I think they cut that scene out in video and cable releases—for a while I thought I’d just imagined it). If there was any more effective way of convincing me that abortion was not something anyone would want to go through while at the same time showing that it should be an acceptable choice for a girl, I don’t know what it would have been.

Ally McBeal was one of those shows I began enjoying more for the supporting characters than the romantic leads. When The Biscuit disappeared from the show, so did I.

Laurie (or Fry or both) gets a big thumbs up from me for the scene they inserted into one of the Jeeves and Wooster stories, where it’s made clear that Honoria Glossop isn’t any happier about the engagement that Bertie is.

Even in the original P.G. Wodehouse stories, it was hard to imagine that an independent and sporty type like Honoria would be happy about being engaged to Bertie; her enthusiastic promises (or rather threats) to “improve” him seemed more to be making the best (in her own way) of a bad aunt-and-loony-doctor-created situation. Over time, Honoria’s enthusiasm for her project simply got the better of her.

I will agree that Laurie and Fry did a top-drawer job in all respects in the J&W;series.

Why do liberals hate children?

If you look closer, Larry, you’ll see it’s more that liberals hate adults who act like spoiled brats.

Comment #27: Gracchus  on  11/11  at  11:47 PM

Wait….....dancing is the great taboo?  No wonder everyone looks at me strange-like when I dance the Electric Slide…

Comment #28: Rugged in Montana  on  11/11  at  11:55 PM

Do you people agree with the sex selective abortions(targeting girls) in China? Should sex selective abortions be legal?

Do you have the guts to answer that question?

Comment #29: Larry  on  11/11  at  11:55 PM

There must have been something in the water in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s.  I don’t know if you recall the sitcom “Anything But Love” but the character played by Ann Magnuson, who was an awesome ball-buster, announced on one episode that she’d just had an abortion.  It wasn’t a big deal, show-wise, but Magnuson wrote an excellent article in a women’s mag, where she went off on an awesome rant about that episode and the ridiculous charicatures of women in film.  She skewered Hollywood for the way it only wrote roles for women that involved them showing up at the door in bikinis, saying things like “Honey, come back to bed!”, or as she put it - “helping Harrison Ford find his inner child or propping up Michael Douglas’ sagging libido”.  It was wonderful and I wish I could remember what the publication was.

Comment #30: Donna  on  11/11  at  11:56 PM

There was an episode of L&O;:CI where they’re looking for an anti-abortionist who has already killed an abortion provider, and the following dialog takes place:

Alex Eames: What do you really think?
Robert Goren: I’ll tell you what I think when I get pregnant.
Alex Eames: You’re gonna have to do a lot better than that, Bobby.

Goren ends up saying he’s pro choice, because more options are better than fewer ones.

You’ve shown you have more guts than us by asking mind-numbingly stupid questions, larry.

Larry, tell us how the war in Iraq is okay.  I’m sure you can.

Comment #33: Donna  on  11/12  at  12:07 AM

Larry, are you under the impression that “liberals” don’t become parents or already are parents?

I mean, we all know you’re an idiot, but you can’t be that stupid.

Oh wait…maybe you can.

Comment #34: history_mom  on  11/12  at  12:13 AM

LauraB: “I always interpreted it this way as well.  Also she is overjoyed when Baby’s father tells her that she can still have children.  The filmmakers were very clear: good person stuck in crappy situation gets screwed by anti-woman policies.”

Yes, yes and yes. That was the movie that made me pro-choice. At the age of twelve. Before that I had the usual “But babies are cute. How could anybody not like them?” simplistic pre-teen attitude. Then I saw that movie (which I freely admit kind of sucked), and that scene where Penny is thrilled she’s not infertile now brought about an epiphany in my twelve-year-old mind. It suddenly hit me that Penny COULDN’T have a baby right now, but that didn’t mean she didn’t want to still have that option in future, when her life was more financially stable and she was married. If it her employers had found out she was pregnant, she would’ve become immediately unemployed, with no way to provide for herself or a baby.

Not to mention the part where after the botched abortion she won’t let anybody call for an ambulance because she knows a hospital will call the police and she’ll be in big legal trouble. I mean, the woman is quite possibly DYING and she daren’t go to a flipping hospital for help. Not to mention the part where Jerry Orbach’s character could’ve lost his medical license simply for doing his job and helping her without calling the authorities. Anyway, that revelation hit me at age twelve and never really let go, despite the overall mediocrity of the movie.

Caren: “As for abortion, “All My Children” used to be the ‘issues’ soap.  It had the first AIDS character (Cindy contracted AIDS from her hetero drug-using ex-hubby) on a soap, and it also had an abortion early on.
We’ve grown so damn reactionary, that not only is it impossible for anyone on a soap to get an abortion anymore, but in a freak re-write, apparently Erica’s ‘aborted baby’ wasn’t aborted after all.  The doctor who “aborted” the baby took it and raised it.  Cause that makes total sense and well, you can’t have a major character who was happy to have had an abortion.”

Oh, you are fucking kidding me. Not that I was watching the show back in the early 70’s when Erica had the abortion, but DUDE, talk about rewriting history. I quit watching AMC some years ago, and was pretty shocked to tune back in earlier this year and find not only how non-“issues” oriented it is now, but also how very very white it’s gotten. In the early and mid-90’s, when I was an AMC addict, they had entire families of colour.

Comment #35: Raincitygirl  on  11/12  at  12:15 AM

‘Larry, are you under the impression that “liberals” don’t become parents or already are parents?”

You say us fundies hate women, yet we have wives and daughters….

Comment #36: Larry  on  11/12  at  12:17 AM

Why do liberals hate children? especially unborn children?

The more relevant question is why do conservatives hate children?  Liberals think children are so precious they should be born into welcoming arms.  Conservatives are the ones who think children are a punishment for naughty women.  Since you think children are a punishment, and I think they’re precious human beings who should been welcomed warmly, seems you’re the one who hates children.

Many girls in China and India are being aborted, thats why we have a severe gender imbalence there now…

Wrong.  I think that’s terrible, because it’s misogynist.  But I fail to see how invading their countries and killing everyone will stop misogyny.  Better is to fight misogynists yourself who devalue women and lead to the eventual use of abortion as a sex selection tool.

Comment #37: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/12  at  12:18 AM

I shouldn’t take the bait.  Obviously, engaging with really stupid people like this is counter-productive.  Either they’re that simple and you’re being mean talking to them above a level they can understand, or they’re willfully stupid and borderline fascists who have no interest in dialogue, but just want to disrupt.  Either way, it doesn’t work.

Comment #38: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/12  at  12:25 AM

Amanda,

You didn’t answer the question. I know it’s a tough one for liberal pro-choicers:

Should sex selective abortions be legal?

Comment #39: Larry  on  11/12  at  12:28 AM

You say us fundies hate women, yet we have wives and daughters….

Larry on 11/11 at 10:17 PM

.....just like Jefferson had black slaves.

Comment #40: phylosopher  on  11/12  at  12:30 AM

Do you people agree with the sex selective abortions(targeting girls) in China? Should sex selective abortions be legal?

No and yes. 

Larry, before you go off into an endless list of “but what ifs” and gotcha questions, the answer to all of them is the same: we think the pregnant woman should have the choice.

Our problem with the One-Child Policy in China is the the government pressure being applied to people’s reproductive choices.  We have just as much problem with women being coerced into abortions as we do with women being denied abortions because - once again - the pregnant woman should have the choice.

If a woman in this country - or anywhere else where government coercion is not being applied - decides that she would rather abort a female fetus and try again for a boy, we’re horrified and saddened that she values girls so little, but we refuse to take away her right to do so.  Because - say it with me now: the pregnant would should have the choice.

Comment #41: Seraph  on  11/12  at  12:35 AM

the pregnant <strike>would</strike> woman should have the choice.

Dammit.

Comment #42: Seraph  on  11/12  at  12:38 AM

Oh, you are fucking kidding me. Not that I was watching the show back in the early 70’s when Erica had the abortion, but DUDE, talk about rewriting history. I quit watching AMC some years ago, and was pretty shocked to tune back in earlier this year and find not only how non-“issues” oriented it is now, but also how very very white it’s gotten. In the early and mid-90’s, when I was an AMC addict, they had entire families of colour.

Yeah, and not every family was super wealthy either.  There were poor people, and when you had the rich, you also knew all about the lives of their servants and their families. 

I haven’t watched it in decades, but I read a board where people still do, so I don’t have all the details down, but, yeah…Erica’s abortion never really happened now. 

Larry, women have a right to control their own bodily autonomy.  So, yes, if they don’t want a girl, they shouldn’t have to have one.  I may not agree with that decision, but I will fight for the right of any woman to make it.

See, I also have faith that women will make the right and most ethical decision for themselves.

And just to blow your mind completely away…I’m a married mother of 3.  Being pregnant and having these children, whom I love devotedly, only made me MORE pro-choice.

Comment #43: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  11/12  at  12:41 AM

Should sex selective abortions be legal?

They already are.  Jesus, you’re dense.

Roe doesn’t require you have an approved reason for wanting an abortion, and really, any woman’s reason for wanting an abortion is no one’s business but her own.

Comment #44: Maggie  on  11/12  at  12:44 AM

I shouldn’t take the bait.  Obviously, engaging with really stupid people like this is counter-productive.

You got it. You don’t address children with adult arguments. I was tempted to give him the obvious (i.e. easy and reasonable) answer just to see what kind of insane “gotcha” he’d come up with, but why bother? Especially when the main topic of the thread is a lot more interesting than Larry’s feverish fantasies of women who crave intrusive medical procedures.

Comment #45: Gracchus  on  11/12  at  12:44 AM

Yeah, add me to the list of Dirty Dancing lovers.

On last night’s BL: I think they were trying to Make You Think by saying, “Oh, so you believe in a woman’s right to choose? What if she’s choosing because the fetus is a girl, huh? WHAT THEN?” (to which I respond: then work to change the societal pressures that lead her to make that choice). My roommate and I were interested when they claimed that Chinese American women also abort female fetuses at a higher rate; we found the study they talked about and what it actually says is that the ratio of male to female babies is what one would expect (1.05) for first-born children, but then increases with second- and third-born children when the previous ones are all girls. Which doesn’t really mesh successfully with their storyline, which is (almost certainly) a first pregnancy.

I was definitely unhappy with the way the message was definitely “you can be pro-choice and all, but you will and should feel bad about the choice you made”. Woulda been nice to have a single character presenting the opposite view. Technically the teenager doesn’t ever confirm that she would be choosing not to abort if the fetus were male, nor does she ever indicate that there’s even any hesitation in her mind that this is the right thing for her to do. But it’s clear that we’re supposed to believe that they’re right about her reasons. And the show doesn’t bother to go into any of the reasons _why_ a Chinese-American woman, with no one-child laws, would choose to abort a female fetus, which I think needs to be explored if you’re going to use it.

I too am completely obsessed with portrayal of abortion in fiction and annoyed by how many shows shy away from it—there was a Desperate Housewives storyline that makes me angry, too.  And then there was the episode of Sex & the City where Miranda thinks about getting an abortion, but decides not to. But that episode at least redeemed itself by Samantha being clear that she’d had abortions and didn’t regret them, and Carrie thinking about an abortion she’d had, and ultimately deciding it was the right decision.

Comment #46: hanna  on  11/12  at  12:45 AM

Being pregnant and having these children, whom I love devotedly, only made me MORE pro-choice.

Yes.  This. 

I love my sons with every fiber of my being.  I stayed home with them when they were little, gave up a lot of freedom to bring them up to be productive, intelligent, contributing members of society, and still make daily sacrifices for them.

It’s been hard, hard work, though, and I know that it’s work that you absolutely must CHOOSE if you’re going to do it right and without resentment.

Comment #47: Maggie  on  11/12  at  12:47 AM

I don’t know if that rumor about David Kelly is true, but i’ve heard other things that would indicate that he is a major asshole. I’ve heard that Camryn Manheim’s character on The Practice was intended to be comic relief, and that it was only her putting her foot down that forced him to take the character seriously.

Comment #48: pablo  on  11/12  at  12:50 AM

Geez Larry.  I’m against people driving cars off of cliffs.  But not against people driving cars.

Comment #49: Lefty  on  11/12  at  12:56 AM

Even if sex selective abortions were outlawed in China, the country would still favor males over females.  It’s the sexism that’s wrong, not the abortions.  The sex selective abortions are a SYMPTOM of pervasive misogyny.
But we know you never gave a shit about the plight of little girls and grown women in China, Larry.

Comment #50: SarahMC  on  11/12  at  12:58 AM

I have never understood this so called gotcha question from conservatives: In what way does limiting the freedom of grown women demonstrate how much a society values females?

Comment #51: ellenbrenna  on  11/12  at  12:59 AM

Larry, I’m not taking your bait.  You are not interested in a dialogue.  You are interested in shutting one down.  Please leave.

Comment #52: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/12  at  01:07 AM

Lefty:

I’m against people driving cars off of cliffs.

So am I, in principle. But if Larry wants to try it out, I’d be nothing but supportive.

Comment #53: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  11/12  at  01:11 AM

It’s pretty disheartening that, in the past twenty years, our society has gotten MORE squeamish and panicky about abortion rather than less.

Comment #54: SarahMC  on  11/12  at  01:13 AM

On last night’s BL: I think they were trying to Make You Think by saying, “Oh, so you believe in a woman’s right to choose? What if she’s choosing because the fetus is a girl, huh? WHAT THEN?” (to which I respond: then work to change the societal pressures that lead her to make that choice).

Which makes me angry that being a “provocative” writer in TV seems sadly to be a job that rewards being thoughtless.  But that’s less true all the time.  I can’t really imagine David Simon trying to “make you think” with an example that’s a) not reflective of reality and b) basically a “gotcha” that’s easy to figure out the “answer” to in like 5 seconds.  If you really wanted people to think about abortion and specifically judicial bypass and parental notification, you would use one of the examples I link above.  Like the “Fast Times” example shows, there doesn’t have to be a gotcha to make a storyline stick with you.  Stacy’s abortion is the most banal, mundane, average experience there is, and that’s what makes it powerful.  It’s a gut-wrenching portrayal of the low esteem our society has for teenage girls, how we neglect to give them even basic sex education and the self esteem to stand up for their own health, and how that leads directly to abortion for many of them.  And how the tragedy is not the abortion, but the circumstances that surround it. 

It also humanizes the guy who got her pregnant and exposes the danger of the toxic masculinity that got him into the situation.  The scene where he tries to do right and raise the money and fails and can’t admit it gets to me, it really does.  Lesson: you can do much more by being real than playing gotcha.

Comment #55: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/12  at  01:17 AM

anybody notice how Larry moved the goalposts on that one?

Comment #56: Indy  on  11/12  at  01:20 AM

Well, yeah, that’s what mental children do.  Again, he’s not interested in dialogue, just disruption.

Comment #57: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/12  at  01:31 AM

Seraph,

Thanks for having the guts to answer that question. But I’m surprized by your blatant sexism?  females can be aborted soley based on their gender? how cruel. Killing a girl child in the womb is the most extreme form of violence against women.  I’m surprized feminists are silent on this issue. China and India have a real problem with this.

Gutta go, Mom’s telling me to leave.

Comment #58: Larry  on  11/12  at  01:54 AM

“In writing this post, I want to make one thing very clear up front: I do not like the movie “Dirty Dancing”.  How could you, really?”

The image and the title of this post really gave me a scare so I’m glad you threw this out to start, although it produced the reaction of “if it’s not liking “Dirty Dancing” then just what IS the great taboo?”

Comment #59: jb  on  11/12  at  01:56 AM

Ah…didn’t we all call the “if women abort female feti they’re really just killing women so how can they be feminists” nonsense?

Larry, you tool, feminists are not silent on this issue.  SarahMC up there nails you on it.

And why is the pregnant woman invisible to you?  “Killing a girl child in the womb” is completely ignoring that the womb is attached to an already living, breathing, thinking woman who is entitled to make her own decisions about her bodily autonomy and health.  Women are not walking uteruses.

Until you are willing to let the government order *you* to randomly slice out part of your liver or donate one kidney to save someone else—with or without your consent—STFU about ‘allowing’ women the same right to autonomy.

Comment #60: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  11/12  at  02:20 AM

You’re welcome, Larry.  I know I made your night by giving you the chance to use your devastating “gotcha” line before <strike>flouncing off</strike> your victorious departure, and that kinda gives me the warm fuzzies.  Meanwhile, I got the chance to educate any lurkers who might think your challenge had any validity.  Looks like a win all around to me.

Comment #61: Seraph  on  11/12  at  03:08 AM

You say us fundies hate women, yet we have wives and daughters….

whom you don’t want to have the choice of what they can do with their bodies, even when they’re of legal age and not subjected to your <strike>whims</strike> “Biblical leadership” or whatever you call your role in your household.

Also, we can see how you treat the site of someone who is a woman and those who comment on it, if they aren’t ‘fundies’.  Ever heard of the old saying, “Actions speak louder than words?”

Twit.

Yes, Larry dear, Mummy is calling you.  If you were so concerned about girl babies, you’d spend less time on feminist blogs and more on Save The Children.  Really, how many underprivileged girls are you sponsoring? 

I’m guessing none, unless they are on Craigslist Casual Encounters.  In which case, you are an asshole.

Comment #63: Donna  on  11/12  at  03:59 AM

Gutta go, Mom’s telling me to leave.

Ah - so that’s who put Baby in our corner…

Comment #64: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  11/12  at  04:13 AM

Anyone remember Pyrates?  Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgwick, 1991.  It’s a sex comedy.  The two of them are wild, crazy lovers who somehow manage to set fire to something every time they have sex (thus the title). 

All is going along pretty much as you expect a romantic/sex comedy to do when, during the traditional part in every such movie when the couple are broken up, she has an abortion.  She forgot her pills during one of their more outrageous romps earlier in the movie. 

It comes as a bit of a jolt, since there’s nothing…well, very comedic about it.  But it’s not played as any great tragedy, either.  It’s played as one of the ties between them being broken and thus rather sad, but no more than that.  No grief, no guilt, no regret, it isn’t even brought up again later when they inevitably get back together.

Comment #65: Seraph  on  11/12  at  04:29 AM

Killing a girl child in the womb is the most extreme form of violence against women.

Yeah, I’m really surprised that aborting a female foetus in the first trimester—i.e. before it can even feel pain—is worse to him than even the most brutal murder of an already-born woman or girl.  It’s almost as if women don’t matter to him or something…nah, can’t be that.

Sarah Palin pulled out that “aborting female foetuses is violence against women therefore all abortion should be illegal” shit in the campaign.  Conservative women who had just discovered their ‘feminism’ ate it up with a spoon.

Comment #66: killjoy  on  11/12  at  05:27 AM

Do you people agree with the sex selective abortions(targeting girls) in China? Should sex selective abortions be legal?

Do you have the guts to answer that question?

I may be alone in this opinion, Larry, but I feel that only hermaphrodites should be allowed to be brought into this world, and hopefully they will be genetically modified snowflake children.  With wings.  And fangs. Let’s you and I make it a law, starting with a California initiative.

Comment #67: Rugged in Montana  on  11/12  at  06:29 AM

Killing a girl child in the womb is the most extreme form of violence against women.

No, it isn’t. This, on the contrary, is.

Unless you fix the deep problems that patriarchy has posed on the chinese society, the only alternative to selective abortion will be overpacked shelters with dozens of little girls tied to their beds. Because, when one society doesn’t value women at all, it doesn’t matter how many women will be born that year, their lives will be complete hell.

Comment #68: elgie  on  11/12  at  06:32 AM

RE: The abortion v/s female foeticide debate

How about some input from someone who actually is from the places where this is an issue? I’m from India myself. I’m firmly pro-choice and firmly against female foeticide i.e. sex selective abortion of female foetuses. And yes, I spell it “foetus”. =P How am I able to entertain these supposedly “conflicting” points of view without my head violently exploding in a mass of endometrium and amniotic fluid?

The truth is, there’s never been conflict in my mind. Maybe it’s because, having grown up surrounded by the culture (but NOT under the influence of it), I have some amount of immersive understanding of what factors would influence people to undergo a sex-selective abortion vs. an abortion out of genuine choice. These are absolutely things like culture, religion, so-called “family values”, flawed concepts of “virtue” and “upholding tradition” and the like. And make no mistake, all these stem from a fundamentally patriarchal society.

If you want to examine things more closely, then largely these are the families that believe in and uphold “Traditional Indian Values (TM)” (these would be the orthodox fundamentalists who believe a woman’s place is in the home subservient to her father/brother/husband, boys bring prosperity in the form of dowry, girls bring ruin by having to pay the dowry, etc.). The fact is, women in these situations have no choice with regards to aborting their female foetuses. Either they’re pressured by their families to undergo the examination and consequent procedures - in both overt forms like physical harm or more subtle ones like psychological pressure - or the same values are so ingrained in them from childhood that they just don’t know that they can think a different way. There’s also a lot of “family honour” and “that’s just what people of our social standing do” sort of thinking going on.

So the same issues of “choice” about abortion do not come in to play in the same way as it does in a more progressive, free thinking society.

But you already knew all that, I’m sure. wink

Now let me talk a little about the “sexual activity” aspect of Indian society. Although the country is getting more progressive (especially in the big cities), the vast majority of India is still sexually regressive and repressed. Sexual contact outside of marriage is a BIG taboo - totally out of the question for girls, not acceptable but still “understood” for boys. I don’t think I have to explain any more about that.

My point here is that the women who get pregnant outside of marriage (for whatever reason - rape, incest, “one mistake in the heat of the moment that needs to be ‘corrected’”, those exploring their sexuality outside the societal bounds, etc.) are NOT the ones doing it because of sex-selection. They will NOT be asking for the sex of the foetus. THEY will be the ones doing it out of CHOICE. Sex-selective abortion does not even come into the picture.

That’s why, apart from the obvious approach of education and changing societal values as a whole, we also need a ban on sex-determination practices in this country. And THAT is what social activists are working for. NOT a ban on abortion.

The bottom line of this whole long-winded thing? Things are different here. You can’t compare two completely different sets of social circumstances. Choice for you is not the same as choice for them.

And the next time you want to bring up an issue you understand nothing about, do it with someone who may actually know enough to educate you.

Troll.

Comment #69: Aconite  on  11/12  at  10:34 AM

But that’s Larry’s schtick, and the schtick of all pro-lifers everywhere:  To deflect their true callousness and hatred of women behind their love of the BAYBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ in the womb.

Who cares if small girls are tied to metal highchairs with a hole cut in their winter suits so they can shit and piss in a bucket strategically set below them?  Let’s talk about the fact that some of the female fetuses were aborted.  Nevermind that quite possibly, the woman pregnant with said female fetus probably knew was going to be her daughter’s fate, and out of love, decided the best thing was to end it now rather than have her daughter live a life of misery chained to a bed.

Who cares about all those women in Afghanistan under the Taliban rule being unable to see a doctor or go to school?  The fact is, somewhere out there in the world, some woman is having an abortion and THAT is the true affront, THAT is the true human rights atrocity.  Regardless of the fact that the WOMAN who is pregnant and living in the reality of her life is looking at all of her options and realizing that the best thing for her and her life is to end this pregnancy.

Fuck their misogynistic attitudes.  And don’t get me started on Palin and her sanctimonious attitude about how great it was that her daughter made a CHOICE.  A choice she wants to take away from everyone, except herself, since she can just charter a government airplane to fly her and her daughter to Canada should an abortion be a requirement.  Or, you know, just take a misguided flight herself right after the water breaks and hope for the best, which would be a dead kid.  Cause that’s so much more humane.

Sorry about the rant.  It just gets pent up in me, and that picture of that girl…the sorrow in her tiny, young face…I just lost it.

Comment #70: speedbudget  on  11/12  at  10:50 AM

“Being pregnant and having these children, whom I love devotedly, only made me MORE pro-choice.”

Me too.  Times a million.  I guess though, that this isn’t really something Larry has ever thought about for himself.  I mean, if he does indeed have a wife and daughter (as he claims “fundies” do, because “fundies” are all, and exclusively, men, right?), which I doubt, I’m betting he wasn’t the one having to sacrifice anything to carry, give birth to, and bring up said daughter.

Comment #71: Katherine  on  11/12  at  11:13 AM

Shorter Larry: I miss the days when unwanted girls were left to die of exposure.

Comment #72: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/12  at  12:23 PM

Killing a girl child in the womb is the most extreme form of violence against women.  I’m surprized feminists are silent on this issue

After that build-up to a major “gotcha,” that’s it, Larry? The same old science- and reason-challenged wheeze about a non-cognizant blastocyst or embryo being the direct equivalent of a fully-formed and reasoning female?

If you want to be an entertainer, Larr, clown or otherwise, you have to deliver on your implied promises. Otherwise the audience gets bored, the producers stop calling, and you end up back waiting tables.

Comment #73: Gracchus  on  11/12  at  12:45 PM

And don’t get me started on Palin and her sanctimonious attitude about how great it was that her daughter made a CHOICE.

Bristol had a choice?

In what way? 

Her mom was running as the freeper fundy choice for VPresident.  Palin gets superdoubleplusgood bonus points for not aborting Trig.  There’s no way she and First Dude can allow their daughter to abort, even though that is what’s in Bristol’s best interest, especially when compared to a shotgun wedding to a fellow high school dropout.

What were Bristol’s choices?  Have the baby and marry Levi and we’ll continue to support you, keep you on our health insurance, help you to finish high school, get some friends to hire Levi, etc.

Or have an abortion and live on the streets.

What kind of choice is that for a 17 y/o high school drop out?  It’s not a free choice made from careful consideration of the options and their probable outcomes.

People do cut their daughters out of their lives for getting pregnant out of wedlock.  Offering support for a shotgun wedding is actually a step up—I know of Catholic priests as late as the 80s who still advised parents to cut off all contact with their daughters and soon-to-be-born grandchildren.

Comment #74: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  11/12  at  12:49 PM

Palin gets superdoubleplusgood bonus points for not aborting Trig.

What are the odds that within a year it is revealed that Trig is actually Bristol’s?  Maybe as a revelation from Levi, from the horde of GOP lawyers headed to Alaska to the their wardrobe money back, or from the local GOP tired of being an embarrassment on the world stage?

Comment #75: KL  on  11/12  at  01:06 PM

I’m kind of sad that I’m the only one around here who likes “House”, but I decided not to go into a long-winded fan defense, especially since I’ve never seen the episodes discussed in these comments.

I’ve also never seen “Dirty Dancing” but I do remember hearing repeatedly that if the movie was made today, Penny’s abortion wouldn’t exist.  I’m not sure if that’s better or worse than “it exists, but she feels like a TERRIBLE CHILDLESS PERSON for having it.”

I was born the ‘80s and didn’t become conscious of the media until the ‘90s and after.  I was *shocked* the first time I heard that “Dirty Dancing” and “Fast Times at Ridgemont High” (two movies I associated with teen Hollywood fluff) dealt with abortion.  It was absolutely mind-boggling for me to realize there were mainstream, popular movies and TV shows that used to do that.  I didn’t grow up with that.

“Scrubs” had a pretty decent episode, a lot like the “Sex and the City” one mentioned upthread, where at least the *option* of abortion was discussed.  Of course the main character and his girlfriend decided they wanted the baby after all, but to me the memorable part was a minor character (who now had an adorable toddler!) openly talked about an abortion earlier in her life, which she did not regret.  It’s sad that that’s probably the best handling of the topic I’ve ever seen on a network TV show.

Comment #76: Nicole  on  11/12  at  01:12 PM

I hadn’t watched “Dirty Dancing” in years—it was very popular with my sister and her friends when it first came out—but bought a copy recently when Rifftrax tackled it. I’d forgotten how central abortion was as a motivator for everything. I could be wrong, but does the actual word “abortion” appear anywhere in it? I didn’t notice it anywhere, and it seemed like an elaborate tap dance around the usage.

I may have missed it from laughing so hard at the Rifftrax jokes. “It’s the Lenny Briscoe disco!”

Comment #77: Terry  on  11/12  at  01:15 PM

Meanwhile, over at Salon.com we have Camille Paglia saying this:

Pro-life women will save feminism by expanding it, particularly into the more traditional Third World

While getting her love on for Sarah Palin and someone said this:

Did she say this? Really? For God’s sake, woman! The third worlds are SWIMMING in children and illogic about the failure of birth control fed by the self-righteous and malignantly stupid missionaries (from where? Hell?).

Pro-life women will seek to saddle the third worlds with more and more children and won’t bat an eye to the real and visceral evil that their partisan illogical agenda does to the world. You see, they want the spot light. They will use the opportunity of a swelling and putrid third world population explosion to beat their little drums for funding to ‘help those that value life’ and take a handsome cut off the top too…

There is no excuse to parade ‘pro-life women’ as some kind of saviour to third worlds. My God woman, haven’t those vacant headed religious bigots done more than enough damage? Yet?

Like the case of Joe Lieberman, it’s time for Camille Paglia to be shown the door and the sooner the better…

Her posts usually always spart a lot of heated comments… Is that why Joan still has ber on Salon?

Comment #78: PinkyLeftBrain  on  11/12  at  01:26 PM

audiences thought to be more conservative than they were 20 years ago.

I know the evidence is all around us, but whenever I see it spelled out like that it really makes me weep.

Not too many immigrants who are under the “influence” of laws in countries they don’t live in.

Maybe not the laws, but I recently met a second-generation Chinese-American woman with one daughter who said she was still under not-very-subtle familial pressure to keep having children until she had a boy.

Comment #79: Rick Massimo  on  11/12  at  01:27 PM

P.S.: Pre-nose-job Jennifer Grey = awesome. The rest of Dirty Dancing = not awesome.

Comment #80: Rick Massimo  on  11/12  at  01:28 PM

Yeah, I loved Jennifer Grey as well. I thought Dirty Dancing was a fantastic movie and was devastated to find out that Patrick Swayze chain smoked his way through the movie… Didn’t Jenny get a nose job during the filming of one of her movies? The pursuit of beauty…

Comment #81: PinkyLeftBrain  on  11/12  at  01:34 PM

Possibly off-topic, but speaking of abortion and the media—I really liked how it came up in the “Mad Men” season 2 finale. [spoilers ahead]

When Betty finds out she is pregnant, her doctor completely dismisses her negative reaction and basically tells her she’s not the right kind of person to ask for a hush-hush abortion—she’s not a teenager, unmarried, or poor, so her reasons for wanting to control her own body and life aren’t good enough. (An attitude that exists today just as much as 1962.  Even the pro-choice majority is more comfortable talking about desperate situations that lead to abortion.  It’s a whole other taboo around an adult woman simply saying “it’s not a good time” for her.)  She has a neighbor who vaguely refers to a doctor in Albany, but advises her to just “wait it out” and hope for a miscarriage, which is what she decides to do (eating a little raw chicken for good measure). It really captured the quiet, subtle sadness of how limited Betty’s options are before Roe v. Wade, and how trapped she feels.

Comment #82: Nicole  on  11/12  at  01:35 PM

Jennifer: In a recent interview for Channel 5 (UK) she said that having plastic surgery to her nose was the worst mistake she had ever made. This was because she was no longer recognizable as the girl from the film Dirty Dancing, just somebody who looked a bit like her.

Comment #83: PinkyLeftBrain  on  11/12  at  01:37 PM

It was absolutely mind-boggling for me to realize there were mainstream, popular movies and TV shows that used to do that.

What I find interesting is the timing. It took approx 10 years for serious and non-judgemental portrayals of abortion to start showing up in movies and TV aimed at teenagers, approx. another 10 years for abortion portayals to devolve into “very special episode of Blossom” cliche, and then a period where it didn’t appear at all, and now something of a retrenchment. Knocked Up referenced it because they had to, but due to plot purposes (a"schmamortion” meant the end of the movie) had to leave it at that. The stage version of Dirty Dancing also had to reference it (because its target audience would see the glaring omission), but the producers felt compelled to insert the scene Amanda mentions.

The timing has little to do with national politics: Fast Times and Dirty Dancing came out at the height of the Reagan years, and the re-trenchment started happening under Clinton. I suspect it was more of a generational thing: Boomer entertainment industry execs coming into their own, grappling with the contradiction between their fading idealism and their growing greed; and a no-BS Gen-X audience was demanding teen movies with at least a taste of 70s edginess.

Possibly off-topic, but speaking of abortion and the media—I really liked how it came up in the “Mad Men” season 2 finale. [spoilers ahead]

Mentioned it above, sans spoilers. But yeah, what I liked most about that aspect of the episode is how anyone who had an interest in the issue talked about it (or, more accurately, around it) in those days of limited options.

The ending of the episode goes directly to the compromise that a 30-year-old woman had to make when she finally realised that, barring an “act of God,” she’d have to go back to her philandering and secretive husband (who almost abandoned her completely) because she had no career or independent means to fall back on. The best she could do was get back at Don by having a quick screw (and a rough one—like the raw chicken, it might help) with a stranger in a bar.

That is one amazing show.

Comment #84: Gracchus  on  11/12  at  01:51 PM

“My mommy had a abortion!  My mommy had a abortion!”
“She sure did, sport.”

My husband is an ICU nurse, and he says Scrubs is the closest thing to a realistic medical show.  At least the characters kind of act llike real people.

Comment #85: lonespark  on  11/12  at  02:16 PM

Nicole—you’re not alone. I loves me some House. I had the same problem with the episode discussed above (he’s so good about insisting it’s a fetus until it does that ridiculous finger-grabbing thing), but if I stopped watching shows that had problematic stuff, I wouldn’t be able to watch tv anymore. And then I would cry.

Amanda: “I can’t really imagine David Simon trying to “make you think” with an example that’s a) not reflective of reality and b) basically a “gotcha” that’s easy to figure out the “answer” to in like 5 seconds. “

See, I think that the “gotcha” is problematic for people whose view on abortion is “I do think, on basic principle, that women should have the right to choose, but I’m hesitant because I feel pretty squicky about the whole killing-the-fetus thing.” Because when the reasons for choosing an abortion add to the squickiness, that can threaten to outweigh the first part. That was where I was a few years ago, and I know I’m very much not alone in having felt that way.

One of the (many) problems with this episode of Boston Legal is that everyone who was pro-choice fell into that group (except possibly the pregnant teenager herself). So, yeah—this issue shows up, and suddenly there’s no one there to say, dude, your gotcha is stupid. We don’t have nearly enough examples out there of characters who are able and willing to explain how one can be pro-choice with unapologetic disregard for the squick factor.

Comment #86: hanna  on  11/12  at  02:24 PM

Caren, I’m sorry if I wasn’t more clear pointing out that Palin was sanctimonious about the choice Bristol made.  I never meant to imply that Bristol had any kind of choice at all, unless she decides to take a non-stop flight to Australia after she breaks water….

The point is, whether Bristol actually was allowed to have a choice or not, Palin made a big stink about her “making” a choice.  And the fundies all sighed with adoration.  So they want it both ways:  They want strokes for making the “right” choice, and they want to take away choice.  That was my point.

Comment #87: speedbudget  on  11/12  at  02:43 PM

I always found the ending to Dirty Dancing to be annoying.  They’re all dancing to a song that didn’t exist in 1963.  And the song is on one of thos singles records that can play at most a song that’s about three minutes long, while the song ends up playing nearly ten minutes!

I also hated that Jennifer Gray’s character was called “Baby” by everyone.  Give her a real name for goodness sakes!  Her character was what, 17 or 18 years old?  Calling her Baby infantilizes her.

Comment #88: Tommykey  on  11/12  at  03:03 PM

I’m kind of sad that I’m the only one around here who likes “House”, but I decided not to go into a long-winded fan defense, especially since I’ve never seen the episodes discussed in these comments.

I will say that I mostly liked last season (though the way they completely ignore actual medicine and science gets to me sometimes), but this season so far has been pretty much unwatchable for me.

(SPOILER)
Of course, they made the stupid mistake of killing off Amber at the end of last season, so now I think they have no idea where to take the characters.  Last night’s Cuddy/House/Wilson subplot was particularly painful.
(END SPOILER)

Comment #89: Mnemosyne  on  11/12  at  03:41 PM

I also hated that Jennifer Gray’s character was called “Baby” by everyone.  Give her a real name for goodness sakes!  Her character was what, 17 or 18 years old?  Calling her Baby infantilizes her.

Well, yeah, that was kind of the point of the whole movie—her parents still see her as a child even though she’s almost an adult. 

There probably should have been some kind of moment at the end when they finally call her by her real name to emphasize that part of the theme.  (For all I know, there was one and I can’t remember it.  All I can remember from the end is “Nobody puts Baby in a corner!”)

Comment #90: Mnemosyne  on  11/12  at  03:46 PM

All I can remember from the end is “Nobody puts Baby in a corner!”

Which is a serious contender for worst line ever spoken in any movie anywhere. Secondly, a moment where SHE tells her parents she doesn’t want to be called Baby anymore would have made a lot more sense, no?

Comment #91: Rick Massimo  on  11/12  at  04:20 PM

P.S.: The only episode of Family Guy I’ve ever seen had a Dirty Dancing sequence in which Patrick Swayze says “Nobody puts Baby in a corner!” and her father responds, “Well, I do; I’m her father and she’s 16 years old. What are you, like 35?” Cut to Patrick Swayze getting his ear licked in a jail cell.

Sorry for the P.S.‘s; it’s that kind of day.

Comment #92: Rick Massimo  on  11/12  at  04:27 PM

Every one of life’s important lessons can be learned from Patrick Swayze movies.

Comment #93: Grandjester  on  11/12  at  04:56 PM

What are the odds that within a year it is revealed that Trig is actually Bristol’s?

Probably longer than the odds that anyone will remember or care who Sarah Palin is a year from now.

Comment #94: junk science  on  11/12  at  05:31 PM

Aconite, thanks for your comment.  That was really interesting.  I haven’t read enough of what Indian feminists are saying, for sure.

As for Paglia, oy.  Pro-life women will…whatever.  Yeah, because pro-choice women are all about the abortion all the time and cannot possibly get involved in anything that doesn’t lead to ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION.  Paglia sucks. 

(Also, her line about how Palin’s accent is identical to Western Canadian accents?  She is so full of shit.  Western Canadians don’t sound like that.)

Comment #95: killjoy  on  11/12  at  07:29 PM

Amanda, have you ever watched reruns of Maude?

Maude had an abortion in November 1972, two months before the Roe v. Wade decision made abortion legal nationwide, and the episodes which dealt with the situation are probably the series’ most famous and most controversial. Maude, at age 47, was crushed when she found herself pregnant, and everyone agreed with her that having a baby at her age was very risky and not a wise thing to happen. Her daughter, Carol, brought to her attention that abortion was now legal in New York state. After some soul-searching (and discussions with Walter, who agreed that raising a baby at their ages was not very wise), Maude tearfully decided at the end of the two-parter that abortion was probably the best choice. Noticing the wide controversy around the episode, CBS decided to rerun the episodes in August 1973, and members of the country’s clergy reacted strongly to the decision. At least 30 stations dropped the show.[citation needed]

Larry: Do you people agree with the sex selective abortions(targeting girls) in China? Should sex selective abortions be legal?

What do you propose we do about it Larry? Perhaps we should invade their country, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity. If that fails, we can bomb them back to the stone age.

Sorry if it’s been mentioned and I missed it, but a little shout-out to If These Walls Could Talk. A little slick and overproduced IMO, but damn it was nice to see a Hollywood production centered around the issue, as opposed to it being a brief or invisible diversion from the storyline.

Comment #97: Froggy  on  11/12  at  09:30 PM

What do you propose we do about it Larry?

Make all abortion illegal, of course. That way we can get women back under the fundies’ thumbs, and put a stop to the only real misogyny in the world, which is refusing to give birth to girl babies. Win-win.

Comment #98: junk science  on  11/12  at  09:58 PM

The finger-grabbing fetus from the House episode is based on something that actually happened. Doctors were operating on a 21-week-old fetus with spina bifida, and it reached out and gripped the surgeon’s finger. Here’s the photo.

I remember seeing it in National Geographic years ago. Although pro-life groups have orgasms over it, of course, it really isn’t pro-life propaganda, but more of an example of an amazing medical procedure that helped a family have a healthy, wanted child.

Comment #99: flea  on  11/12  at  11:42 PM

flea, that didn’t happen.

The doctor was operating on a fetus with spina bifida.  While closing the mother’s uterus, the baby’s arm flopped out.  The doctor put the arm gently back in.

As the doc himself (Joseph Bruner) said “The baby did not reach out.  The baby was anesthetized.  The baby was not aware of what was going on.”

House should have had a fit that the mother/fetus were improperly anesthetized.  The stress alone could have killed them.

Comment #100: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  11/13  at  12:24 AM

Caren, I looked all over the Google to find a decent account of the operation, but came up with bupkis. Can you link to a trustworthy source about it?

Comment #101: flea  on  11/13  at  02:21 PM

Thanks, Froggy! I don’t know why I didn’t check Snopes. I went to urban legends.com, which said it was real. Which I suppose it was, it just didn’t explain the circumstances that led up to the shot.

Comment #103: flea  on  11/13  at  06:59 PM
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