Did I just hear someone call for a US invasion of Zimbabwe, what, as a consolation prize?

I’m off to check my premises… brb…

You can expect on some public sector trolling soon. No, I’m not joking. There will be a completely transparent troll paid off by the Zimbabwean government commenting here soon. This has happened on every other blog I’ve read when a blogger dare criticize their “great” leader.

Jess, WAKE THE FUCK UP….

Bush is doing a job on Zimbabwe, regime change (ukraine, Burma, Lebanon, uzbek…Iraq)
They are bad regime alright, but that’s not why there was shenanigan.

consider this:

1. Bush cut Zimbabwe from IMF/world exchange. (basically they can’t get hard currency to buy anything. economic collapse)  Bush was starving that country. He was red-lining that country.

2. Bush is sending some NASA expat puppet to run against Mugabe.

Now, I am not saying Mugabe is a nice guy. But he is the independence hero. He fuck white farmers and gives a whole plot of fertile land to black farmers.  (Guess what happen next? Zimbabwe is RIGHT NEXT to south africa, guess where the white farmers ex aprtheid was running to?)

And more importantly, ever wonder WHO run the zimbabwe show in washington DC? (the zimbabwe liberation act, so to speak)

What happens in Zimbabwe is PURE colonialism act, just like Cheney helping apartheid regime in the 80’s. This has NOTHING to do with Mugabe (in fact there is no other leader that can hold zimbabwe together. Trust me, that mofo Bush tries to instal? he gonna fuck up the country pronto.)

so here is things if you don’t believe me, search the net:
- search that “white land confiscation case” (happens under Collin powell)
- search when Bush fucks Mugabe by unplugging them from IMF/world currency
- Check that NASA expat Bush trying to instal (He got no power base. He is the chalabi of zimbabwe)

———————
also search:
Lebanon (March 14 movement)
Urkaine (orange revolution, who they are who the players are, who is paying, what the election shenanigan was)

I have to do a lot of posting (in case you don’t want to search it. But trust me. Zimbabwe is the CLEAREST case of US fucking a country for the purpose of colonial power. White apartheid farmers)

You want racism. this is it baby. The HARDEST form of it all.

http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Africa/Zimbabwe-ECONOMIC-DEVELOPMENT.html

During the 1990s, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) supported Zimbabwe’s balance of payments, but in 1999 President Robert Mugabe declared that he would sever ties with the development fund. The president was not willing to “save” the economy under a structural adjustment plan because it would have effectively bankrupted the government. In 2000, economic development slid backwards as inflation spiraled, industries died, and agricultural production fell; but in terms of leveling the distribution of wealth between blacks and whites, it was a redletter year.

See? The guy above has just validated my prediction.

The law was passed in the 80’s right after independence. But didn’t get fully implemented after the 90’s. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_Zimbabwe

Land reform in Zimbabwe began after the signing of the Lancaster House Agreement in 1979 in an effort to more equitably distribute land between the historically disenfranchised blacks and the minority-whites who ruled Zimbabwe from 1923 to 1979. The government’s land distribution is perhaps the most crucial and the most bitterly contested political issue today.

consider their history. (They are only 20 or so year old as a country. After several centuries of colonial power and white ruler. OF course they are not going to get it right at first. They will have to reorganize their society and turning the power-ethnic structure upside down)

That’s like hoping black-white ethnic relationship to produce positive economic output by 1970. instead of 1990… (and we are in so called “free country” with plenty of public education to create leaders)

now Imagine zimbabwe, revolution, in debt. gotta hold angry populace. etc, etc..

This is not a simple evil vs. good like NY Times wants us to believe.
(If you don’t believe me. then at least search and plot the country history, economic development level , human resource, and compare it to surrounding countries…!

then of course, check if Bush adminsitration EVER have good intension when it come helping country!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe

On 18 April 1980, the country attained recognised independence and along with it a new name, Zimbabwe, new flag, and government led by Robert Mugabe of ZANU. Canaan Banana served as the first president with Mugabe as prime minister. In 1987, the government amended the constitution to provide for an executive president and abolished the office of prime minister. The constitutional changes went into effect on 1 January 1988, establishing Robert Mugabe as president.

Under the leadership of Mugabe, land issues, which the liberation movement promised to solve, re-emerged as the vital issue in the 1990s. Beginning in 2000, Mugabe began an effort to redistribute land from white holders (predominantly large farms) to 250,000 Africans.

How much are y’all getting paid?

The Mugabe apologists bear a striking resemblance to those who said how great things were under Stalin if you compared it to Imperial Russia.

This is Animal Farm, Africa Edition.

Zimbabwe is classic banana republic event.
Except it’s tobacco international conglomerate.

Remember even in the US tobacco lobby was some of the most powerful in the country in the 80’s (smoking doesn’t cause cancer)

And for those who live in SC/NC, know exactly what I am talking about.

All you need to look at is US slave experience. 1865, even after 150 years, nothing changes. (Yes, officially blacks are free. But they can’t get seed, farming equipment, management skills, schooling, access to market, financing/loan, etc etc… nevermind things like voting or access to global market or cotton, tobacco, etc)

SAME thing with Zimbabwe. I bet it’s same plantation family. (Check the Cheney/couth Africa connection. I am just guessing here. so don’t quote on this. But I won’t be surprised if there are connection.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2064468.stm

An order to almost 3,000 white farmers in Zimbabwe to stop working and begin leaving their land has been widely ignored as many vowed to stay put.

They were told to stop working at midnight on Monday, and now have 45 days to leave their farms or face imprisonment, under a deadline imposed by Zimbabwe’s government.

The Commercial Farmers’ Union (CFU) says farmers do not want to leave their crops to rot at a time when a severe food shortage is affecting millions of Zimbabweans

The policy of confiscating white-owned farms was begun by President Robert Mugabe over two years ago, and his critics say it is partly to blame for the food shortages.

————

(it is not pretty. No doubt killing/beating/the usual post colonial revolution.
white farmers die, etc, etc…)

But this is the result of long colonial resentment. and even after a decade of independence, economic equality between majority poor black farmer vs minority white farmers are huge. That spark 2000 violence, etc…

You know what’s funny? Zimbabwe IMF loan was only $140 million or so. lol…
We spend that much in about 20 minutes in Iraq.

Freedom!

Read excerpts from the new book The Neo-Feminist at
http://elizabitch-ez.blogspot.com/

I just can’t shake the idea that Bush is the ventriloquist’s dummy, while Cheney is the real life Cigarette Smoking Man, who at one level seems to be the evil power behind the worst aspects of BushLand, but is in reality just the (semi) public face of a whole cabal of NeoConMen acting out their ambitions on the world stage.

Mike, I don’t know if you’ve looked at Atrios tonight but, um, you’re more right than you ever dreamed.

Some people have a attitude that as long as Whitey gets shafted and they can indulge in their black empowerment pet fantasies it’s all OK. Never mind that those farms were major employers and were keeping the economy floating and they were not distributed to any “landless farmers” but to Mugabe party cronies that drove the workers off , looted the place and left it fallow. Now we have 80% unemployment , starvation and inflation not trough the roof but on it’s way to the Moon. And even if the land was distributed to poor “landless farmers” it still would have collapsed the economy since there is a bit difference between comercial farming and subsistence farming on small plots.
    As for Bush cutting IMF/world bank in view that Mugabe’s economic policies seem to indicate a will to destroy the entire economy that actually seem a good idea, since I don’t think they will be in a position to pay off loans for a very long time.

Now we have 80% unemployment , starvation and inflation not trough the roof but on it’s way to the Moon. And even if the land was distributed to poor “landless farmers” it still would have collapsed the economy since there is a bit difference between comercial farming and subsistence farming on small plots.
dav on 06/06 at 01:37 AM

whatever it is, we have pivotal role screwing them good by isolating their banking from global market. They maybe in the hole, but we are talking very small amount of money. hundred of millions per decades. After the isolation, inflation explodes.

Bottom line, we are fucking them good. like I said, classic banana republic / colonialism case.

———————

A collectors item from the anti-colonial struggles of the seventies. This text details how the US military and CIA colluded with Solider of Fortune magazine and others to send white mercenaries to fight for the Ian Smith regime in Rhodesia. While the nitty gritty details are mainly of historical significance, given the heavy reliance on “contractors” in Iraq and elsewhere, the broad outlines of this work remain relevant today. Originally published in the 1970s, ths new introduction has an introduction written in 2005. From the introduction by Jon Dough: “Although the CIA’s mercenary operation for Zimbabwe had failed in the end, the machinery remains as a covert weapon that can be restarted and put to use in new imperialist interventions and wars in the Global South. That’s why this investigative report still has useful knowledge for everyone tracking the bloody footprints of the u.s. empire.”

http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Hire-Recruit-Mercenaries-Rhodesia/dp/1894946170

get yourself a poor sub saharan country on the cheap. (I read part of it. fascinating in twisted sort of way)

OF course they are not going to get it right at first.

Other post-colonial African governments have done a fuckload better. And Thabo Mbeki has been an atrocious old-guard enabler here too.

For comic relief on an inherently tragic situation, there’s a bit in a recent Bugle podcast by Andy Zaltzman and John Oliver, noting how Mugabe’s goons now provide certificates of authenticity after issuing beatings to MDC supporters. Presumably, those beaten can produce their certificate to avoid or offset subsequent beatings. That’s what 28 years’ control of the bureaucracy brings.

Other post-colonial African governments have done a fuckload better. And Thabo Mbeki has been an atrocious old-guard enabler here too.
pseudonymous in nc on 06/06 at 02:00 AM

Bullshit man.

Look at Rhodesia, Botswana, south africa, etc. How long does it take them to get it right after independent? (south africa particularly, and they have the biggest gold and diamond reserve in the world ) None of them get it right within a decade or two.

More importantly notice the “language” in this thread… “hey those black fuckers are lucky with bunch of white corporate farmers owning the whole thing. Look at now, they are all starving.” That’s like saying “those slaves were lucky, they got free roof/food/etc. Look how poor they are after getting their freedom”  Yay Bush administration for spreading freedom!

now THAT is twisted.

That is what colonialism is about. THAT IS the purest form of racism.

And people were screaming for 36 hrs during that book illustration debacle, or at me saying about harriet Christian being small time idiot.. But when it comes to REAL racism, colonialism, we have “Fuck those blacks wanting land and freedom, let’s screw them using the system.”

NOBODY…NOBODY here is raising voice.

... amazing right?

This is why I am sceptic with most of outrage people are showing. Most are just kneejerk stuff.

This looks like the path of a typical Marxist regime to me.

“The Mugabe apologists bear a striking resemblance to those who said how great things were under Stalin if you compared it to Imperial Russia.

This is Animal Farm, Africa Edition. “

Oh man you do not totally fail to interpret Animal Farm while I am around. It was anti-capitalist and anti-Soviet union. Just read the last two pages and report back.

Seriously, how can you possibly get that book so incredibly wrong, it’s about twenty pages long and the least subtle piece of writing in existence.

Thanks for bringing up a very important matter that rarely gets reported.

Zimbabwe makes me twitch. Especially when it is being discussed by no-nothing no it alls like the person who cannot choose a name and stick to it.

First let us consider the actions that the Government of Zimbabwe has done within the date since the last election, in which the current government lost power of the parliament, but is still governing due to the fact that all the power in the nation rests in the hands of the executive.

The election was held on the 30 March 2008. The government controlled/appointed electoral commission started slowly the releasing of results as it appeared that Zanu PF lost both the parliamentary and presidential races. Unfortunately the presidential candidate needs to have more than 50% of the vote. Of the three, none reached above 50% Tsvangari had 47% IIRC, Mugabe had 43% and a third party candidate received the remainder. Thus necessitating a run-off within 29 days. The run-off is due at the end of June. Of course accepting the result that Tsvangari did not win the initial election is problematic due to the almost month long delay in releasing the results of the presidential election.

Some other facts, Mugabe frequently calls Tsvangari a traitor, has had Tsvangari arrested as recently as the DAY before YESTERDAY, Tsvangari has been beaten during his previous incarcarations. Mugabe has also prevented aid agencies from distributing food, including rumours that food aid and other essentials are being withheld from opposition party supporters.

Mugabe is also one of the African’s continent’s leading homophobes, including calling them un-African. Mugabe has had the Armed Forces of Zimbabwe intervene in the conflict in the Congo for his own personal gain. He has been running Zimbabwe like a feudal lord since the 1980’s. Maybe that is why the inflation has reached a rumoured 1 000 000%. No that is not a typo, there are no extra zeros in the number, that is what their inflation looks like.

Over a fourth of Zimbabwe’s 11 million citizens have fled to neighbouring countries over the past 8 years, of those remaining approximately 2/3 requires food aid to prevent starvation. In the initial yers of his rule he carried of a campaign of mass murder against those who did not support his regime. 20-30,000 people died. It went unregarded because the media considered apartheid South Africa to be a much more “sexy” topic.

It is beyond a matter of idealogies, and the only way things can improve for Zim is if the tri-fecta of stupid, Bush, Mbeki, Mugabe go away. Fortuneatly both Bush and Mbeki are reaching the ends of their terms. Once they are gone, perhaps progress can be made.

In short the US has little credibility to interfere. The US has lost its high ground, you cannot even tell a third world dictator his hands are dirty without him pointing out the credible flaws of the us. Indeed, the US actions in Iraq “Regime Change” have been incredibly usefull for Mugabe to play to fears that the campaign to get rid of him is nothing more than an imperialist plot.

I need to go calm down now. My blood pressure must be sky high.

Having read a little on Zimbabwe, but not having heard about the IMF angle, it’s entirely possible that we managed to explode their economy.  However, as to the “NASA puppet assertion” about Tsvangari, I would like to ask how, if he has “no popular support,” he managed to win an election that, by all accounts, was one of the most rigged ever, in a country where his opponent controls pretty much everything and can and has have him and his supporters beaten, as documented by Liberaldirk.*

The perfidy of America does not make Mugabe less of a tyrant.

*On a similar note, I would also like to know what you are smoking.  And congratulate you on inspiring me use that phrase for the first time ever on the internet, where I usually say nothing and when I say anything it is studiously polite.  You, sir or madame, speak as one seriously unhinged from reality.

Refugee crisis

The economic meltdown and repressive political measures in Zimbabwe has led to a flood of refugees into neighbouring countries. An estimated 3.4 million Zimbabweans, a quarter of the population, had fled abroad by mid 2007.[87] Some 3 million of these have gone to South Africa.[88]

Apart from the people who fled into the neighbouring countries, an estimated 570,000 people are displaced within the borders of the country, many of whom remain in transit camps and have limited access to assistance. Most of the displaced have been victims of the Operation Murambatsvina in the year 2005 and continuing evictions and violent farm seizures. Their plight is virtually impossible to assess, as there has been no national survey of people displaced since 2005.[89]

However, these numbers are not solid, and are likely greatly exaggerated, as a study by the Forced Migration Studies Program of Witwatersrand University finds. [90]

———————

The refugee crisis is AFTER economic meltdown. So the question is: why the economic meltdown.
(make no mistake, this is Mugabe’s doing primarily. But the fact we isolate them from global economy makes it that much worst.)

I would like to ask how, if he has “no popular support,” he managed to win an election that,

do you know what 1200% feels like? I sure don’t, but I am already complaining at 3% inflation.
The large inflation start at 2006 or so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwean_dollar

see that sanction? It was 2006. So they can’t do any normal trading in the world.

http://www.afsc.org/africa-debt/take-action/ZimbabweDebt.htm

A surprise repayment

The IMF board was going to meet and decide on Zimbabwe’s fate in mid September 05. After years of not meeting his obligations to the IMF, President Mugabe surprised everyone by making a sudden $135 million down payment to the institution and promised to clear his arrears within six months.

True to his word by February 2006 Mugabe had cleared all his arrears to the GRA which stood at $295 million the previous year and Zimbabwe demanded the reinstatement of its voting right and resumption to balance of payment support.

In spite of the payment, the IMF only stopped the compulsory withdrawal procedure but maintained sanctions against Zimbabwe.

The Social Cost

To fully grasp the social cost of Zimbabwe making this payment, one has to look at the circumstances under which the payment was made.

This was in the middle of a most severe economic crisis; the economy had already bled to bare bones having shrunk within six years to the 1950s level of output. The country was reeling under acute foreign exchange shortages failing to import basics such as medicine, food, fuel, and chemicals to treat its drinking water.

I don’t always hear enough international news, but I remember something from a few years back about Mugabe having entire neighborhoods razed, just because the popular vote in those areas went against him. And they weren’t white neighborhoods.

But it is to say that the gross abuse of the world’s trust might have been ameliorated, ever so slightly, had Bush actually attempted to obscure the massive fuckup he was about to embark on by engaging other spots around the world where the direct intervention of an American president with what was, at that time, large-scale support and sympathy could have truly done some good.

That’s assuming he wouldn’t have messed it up.

According to a 1995 World Bank report, after independence, “Zimbabwe gave priority to human resource investments and support for smallholder agriculture,” and as a result, “smallholder agriculture expanded rapidly during the first half of the 1980s and social indicators improved quickly.” From 1980 to 1990 infant mortality decreased from 86 to 49 per 1000 live births, under five mortality was reduced from 128 to 58 per 1000 live births, and immunisation increased from 25% to 80% of the population. Also, “child malnutrition fell from 22% to 12% and life expectancy increased from 56 to 64. By 1990, Zimbabwe had a lower infant mortality rate, higher adult literacy and higher school enrollment rate than average for developing countries.”[30]

In 1991, the government of Zimbabwe, short on hard currency and under international pressure, embarked on an austerity program. The World Bank’s 1995 report explained that such reforms were required because Zimbabwe was unable to absorb into its labour market the many graduates from its impressive education system and that it needed to attract additional foreign investments. The reforms however undermined the livelihoods of Zimbabwe’s poor majority; the report noted “large segments of the population, including most smallholder farmers and small scale enterprises, find themselves in a vulnerable position with limited capacity to respond to evolving market opportunities. This is due to their limited access to natural, technical and financial resources, to the contraction of many public services for smallholder agriculture, and to their still nascent links with larger scale enterprises.”

http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:DEQYEGjzn7sJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe+mugabe+wiki&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

ok. look at the number. Everything was going great until 1991-1995. Suddenly IMF come in. Why? There was global financial crisis (mexico, asian financial crisis 1997)

Remember he was a hero. Suddenly after IMF doing their magic, he is a total and complete psychopath?

This is after 3 decades of fighting, a decade doing great and fubar decade under IMF, then Congo and land reform ...

And then Bush did his trade embargo and IMF suspension magic in 2006. And after suspension from global market he is a total murderer who created 3 million refugees?

Think about what happens here.

See also Congo, in which current Zimbabwe lost favor is connected. Mobutu helps toss out Mugabe in 1997 in Congo war. (now Mugabe is one nasty fucker, but he is OUR bastard. Nobody was complaining about Mobutu right?  Diamond and coltran baby.)

Congo war was when EU/US started fucking Zimbabwe economy (putting them on trade embargo. ultimately big debt with IMF and 2006 economic implosion.

See how it all work now? This is how Colonialism work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo

Following five years of extreme instability and civil unrest, Joseph-Désiré Mobutu, now Lieutenant General, overthrew Kasavubu in a 1965 coup. He had the support of the United States on account of his staunch opposition to Communism, which would presumably make him a roadblock to Communist schemes in Africa. It is also argued that the Western support for Mobutu was also related to his allowing businesses to export the many natural resources of Zaire without worrying about environmental, labour, or other regulations. A one-party system was established, and Mobutu declared himself head of state. He would periodically hold elections in which he was the only candidate.

Relative peace and stability was achieved; however, Mobutu’s government was guilty of severe human rights violations, political repression, a cult of personality (every Congolese bank note displayed his image, his portrait was displayed in all public buildings, most businesses, and on billboards, and it was common for ordinary people to wear his likeness on their clothing), and excessive corruption. Corruption became so prevalent the term “le mal Zairois” or “Zairean Sickness”[citation needed] was coined, reportedly by Mobutu himself.[citation needed] As soon as 1984, he was said to have $4 billion (USD), an amount close to the country’s national debt, deposited in a personal Swiss bank account. International aid, most often in the form of loans, enriched Mobutu while national infrastructure such as roads deteriorated to as little as one-fourth of what had existed in 1960. The term “kleptocracy” was in fact coined to describe Mobutu’s embezzlement of government funds.

And if we could convince Jesse to ban the Mystery Troll here (who just loves to suck all the oxygen from the room), we might even have an interesting discussion about it…
MikeEss on 06/06 at 08:40 AM

Without the mystery troll, there is only giggling airheads talking about TV and how freedom must spread in zimbabwe, instead of historical analysis. (there is only one person, posting meaningful information you dumbass.)

My god, don’t you ever get tired of hearing yourself speak?…

You’re just asking for a SATSQ, Mike.

But it is to say that the gross abuse of the world’s trust might have been ameliorated, ever so slightly, had Bush actually attempted to obscure the massive fuckup he was about to embark on by engaging other spots around the world where the direct intervention of an American president with what was, at that time, large-scale support and sympathy could have truly done some good.

Fuck, you don’t even need to go that far. How about starting by not funnelling vast sums of money, military hardware and political support to well-known tyrants and murders such as Islam Karimov (the former KGB despotic ruler of Uzbekistan who likes to have dissidents boiled alive) and Rashid Dostum (the former KGB despotic warlord in Northern Afghanistan who likes to have dissidents torn apart by tanks).

Before attempting to do good, first stop doing monstrous evil - then we’ll talk.

Of course, that’s not going to happen because these guys are every bit as vital to the US’s “strategic interests” (read: world hegemony) as Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Augusto Pinochet, and The Shah (etc, etc, etc - it’s a long list) were.

Seriously, this “if only we really tried to do some good” shit is fucking insane. It’s like some cannibal mass-murderer thinking that people might like like him better if perhaps he did some voluntary work with disadvantaged kids in between torturing people to death, eating bits of them, and storing their cadavers in the half-dozen chest freezers in the basement along with the remains of his hundreds of previous victims. Just stop fucking killing people!

How do you misread:

The report on the prewar statements about Iraq found that on some key issues — most notably Iraq’s purported nuclear, biological and chemical weapons programs — the public statements from Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney and other senior officials were generally “substantiated” by the best estimates at the time from American intelligence agencies.

As you were fucking right?

The message of Animal Farm is that a resistance movement can quite easily transform into the very thing they fought against, becoming what you hate. Thats what has happened in Zimbabwe.

Tyranny is tyranny, I don’t care if it calls itself a left wing tyranny or a right wing tyranny.

Amanda…. dude. This is all around. It’s just basic greed/stealing. It’s not some fancy scheme.
It’s basic googling and asking really basic common sense question. It’s not some super secret stuff.

put this in some notepad/at the back of your mind. Then when Iraq “so called” agreement comes out, or there is civil employee strike/wage revolt in baghdad. You know why that comes about…

Then when 20 yrs down the road we still in Iraq, you know the series of event leading to that debacle. (Iraq war is VERY hard to stop. Not even Obama can stop it. I don’t think. He will do the Embassy/secret massive military bases thingie.  (Hillary will do full Iran war and play stupid about it. Acting like she has no choice.)

THIS IS how colonialism work. (It’s soft, very graceful deceit in fact and all seems so natural.)

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/06/bush-administration-blackmailing-iraq-over-long-term-military-agreement/

Bush administration blackmailing Iraq over long-term military agreement.

Yesterday, the UK Independent reported that the Bush administration is trying to push a secret deal to “perpetuate the American military occupation of Iraq indefinitely.” Today, the paper has more troubling details about the Bush administration’s shady tactics:

  The US is holding hostage some $50bn (£25bn) of Iraq’s money in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York to pressure the Iraqi government into signing an agreement seen by many Iraqis as prolonging the US occupation indefinitely, according to information leaked to The Independent.

  US negotiators are using the existence of $20bn in outstanding court judgments against Iraq in the US, to pressure their Iraqi counterparts into accepting the terms of the military deal.

The Bush administration is arguing that some of the Iraq

Mugabe is the biggest colonialist there is. Hes made an entire nation the personal colony of he and his cronies.

But hey, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch etc, those are just crazy Bush-loving neoconservative groups, right?(end sarcasm)

So, when the article says that the arguments were largely substantiated, you just dismiss that because the NYT didn’t devote the same amount of space to that as to the conclusions Democrats on the committee agreed with?

Did you read this part of the article, too?

Mr. Bond and four other Republicans on the committee sharply dissented from the report’s findings and suggested the investigation was a partisan smokescreen to obscure the real story: that Central Intelligence Agency failed the Bush administration by delivering intelligence assessments to policymakers that have since been discredited.

In a detailed minority report, four of those Republicans accused Democrats of hypocrisy and their own campaign of cherry-picking — namely, refusing to include misleading public statements by such top Democrats as Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Mr. Rockefeller.

As an example, they pointed to an October 2002 speech by Mr. Rockefeller, who declared to his Senate colleagues that he had arrived at the “inescapable conclusion that the threat posed to America by Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction is so serious that despite the risks, and we should not minimize the risks, we must authorize the president to take the necessary steps to deal with the threat.”

Still doesn’t prove you were “so fucking right.”

Amnesty international and Human right watch ...?

Do they even SAY anything about Iraq torture, guantanamo or secret rendition?

GO READ it YOURSELF what violation exactly was cited.

(It’s all land confiscation related. It’s bunch of white guys feeling sorry for other bunch of white guys. Did you ever hear humanright group complaining about Zimbabwe during white ruling era and land use?  Think about the extent here ... )

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/zimbabwe/

IV. Human Rights Violations

    Violence and Intimidation in the Course of Land Occupations
        Assaults Against White Farm Owners
        Assaults Against Farm Workers
        Use of Farms as Bases to Harass Opposition Supporters Police Failure to Protect Victims
    Discrimination in Land Allocation
    Gender Issues in Allocation of Land
    Displacement and Marginalization of Farm Workers
    Difficulties for Organizations Working in Rural Areas

(By same measure, homeland security detaining illegals immigrants going to get 100 times harsher pages)

amnesty.org/en/region/africa/southern-africa/zimbabwe

We have more prison brutality everyday combined than those incidence !!!

——————

just for a note Mugabe is bad. (But he is not the evil in the story Bush is pushing in newspaper)
His biggest mistake was being naive.

As if one can’t be anti-Bush and anti-Mugabe.

Hey troll, Bush says the world is round and the sun rises from the east. Does that make it wrong just because Bush says it? Christ, you have a warped mindset.

BTW, how much are you being paid?

Look at Rhodesia, Botswana, south africa, etc. How long does it take them to get it right after independent?

In the case of Botswana, about 30 seconds.  Botswana’s transition from colonial rule to independence was smooth and relatively painless.  Standards of living, education, and health have been steadily improving since independence in 1966 with the major glitches being due to AIDS and the crisis in Zimbabwe.  Botswana’s a special case because its relative ethnic homogeneity and the fact that it was a protectorate, not a colony.  The first means there was little ethnic conflict to stir up, and the second means that the traditional tribal structures and culture remained relatively intact, both of which mitigated the disruptions that inevitably come with a major change in government.

There is a lot to be learned from the different outcomes of decolonization in different countries.  Shoehorning them all into one big mess is both stupid and counterproductive, not to mention racist.  Zimbabwe’s troubles originated in the colonial era in part due to the expropriation of land for settlers and in part due to the arbitrary drawing of borders around and through different ethnic groups.  Land reform was (and is) a necessity, but the way Mugabe has pursued it in recent years has been enormously counterproductive.  His decision to hold on to power by polarization and cronyism has taken a problematic situation and turned it into a catastrophe.  The tribal devisions he is exploiting will fester long after he is gone.  In addition, the de facto expulsion of whites is resulting in a huge drain on the skills available within the country.  It’s all well and good to see this as well deserved elimination of unearned privileges, but if you want a working farm you need someone who knows how to run the damn thing.  Non white Zimbabweans have been learning these skills, often in partnership with whites, but the seizure of land isn’t putting it into the hands of knowledgeable black Zimbabweans, it’s putting it into the hands of people who often know jack shit about farming.

The fact that leaders of neighboring nations are beginning to weigh in against Mugabe is a very good thing.  It took this long because for a long time during the immediate postcolonial era Mugabe was a strong ally to his neighbors and particularly to the anti-Apartheid struggle in South Africa.  For Mbeki to criticize Mugabe is a direct stab in the back to an ally who stood with the ANC when nearly nobody else would (including the USA).  The fact that the crisis has reached this point is both a sign of how bad it is and a sign that ZANU-PF’s days are numbered.

Mr. Bond and four other Republicans on the committee sharply dissented from the report’s findings and suggested the investigation was a partisan smokescreen to obscure the real story: that Central Intelligence Agency failed the Bush administration by delivering intelligence assessments to policymakers that have since been discredited.

Gasp!  You mean Republicans said that everything Bush told them was true and anyone who says otherwise is just a big giant meanie-head who hates America?  Wow, that’s the most credible source I’ve ever seen—Bush’s own political party, the party that pushed and voted for the war, now says the war they wanted was perfectly justified!

In other news, water is wet and bears shit in the woods.  Film at eleven.

FWIW western intervention would be counter-productive and stupid. South Africa, Botswana, and other southern African countries intervening would be much more effective.

Gasp!  You mean Republicans said that everything Bush told them was true and anyone who says otherwise is just a big giant meanie-head who hates America?  Wow, that’s the most credible source I’ve ever seen—Bush’s own political party, the party that pushed and voted for the war, now says the war they wanted was perfectly justified!

But a report supported by all Democrats is just truthful, right?

But a report supported by all Democrats is just truthful, right?

Considering that the report from the Democrats has, you know, actual facts and testimony in it and not just a bunch of whining about how Big Daddy Bush said it was true so it’s true and if you don’t agree the Republicans are all going to hold their breath until they turn blue?

There is one sure thing—Mugabe will be in power probably long after Bush’s term expires.

Due to the shifting usernames of a person I consider to be the same commentator I’ll just make this a general, hopefully informative comment. I’m helping four Zimbabweans, who are trying to make a new life in South Africa tomorrow. Of course the current Xenophobic violence in South Africa is also truly abhorrent.

I wonder what they will make of this discussion? Poor Mugabe he can’t be blamed, he is just acting out because the IMF and world bank is messing with him? Bullshit. Yes, the IMF and the World Bank, do favour the interests of the developed world above that of the developing world, and yes it is bullshit. But you get the live in the privililage of the first world and go “tut, tut”

But you ignore some important points. Robert Mugabe, chose to unleash the violence in the 1980’s, he chose to become involved in the great central african war in which he used the state armed forces to pad his own pockets through blood diamonds, he chose to order the mass printings of money that put the initial upswing of inflation, he chose to spend that money on the “War Veterans” whom he chose to use to start the land seizures in 2001 when his new pet constitution granting him even more powers was rejected by the Zimbabwe.

He chose to destory his countries economy whilst blaming it on sanctions.  Yes there are sanctions, but they are sanctions on Mugabe and his government ministers, not on the economy of Zimbabwe. Robert Mugabe is what Dick Cheney would be if the US did not have its strong tradition of civil liberties.

Robert Mugabe has agency, and he has chosen to use it in the vilest possible ways. Sometimes I wish I wasn’t an atheist so I could wish that men like him could go to hell.

Can I bring your attention to a couple of things eg. Operation Murambatsvina
http://www.un.org/News/dh/infocus/zimbabwe/zimbabwe_rpt.pdf

Basically a campaign that resulted in the eviction of about 8% of Zimbabwe’s total population. Of course, the fact that they were living in urban areas and urban areas are mostly MDC (Movement for Democratic Change) e.g. opposition party supporters had nothing to do with it… Can I sell you a bridge in Brooklyn?

Perhaps a mention of the Gukurahundi, the earlier (1980’s) state sanctioned mass murder would be of interest.
http://www.sokwanele.com/pdfs/BTS.pdf

Additionally, here is a blog. Warning, disturbing images, that you will not see on the news ahead.
http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/

Of course the cold war fucked us Africans up, and now China (PS China loves Mugabe) is slavering at its chance. Africa could be a pretty decent place. Please first world stop supporting our dictators out of some post-colonial impulse. I once met an Italian Communist who supported Mugabe, for one of the few times in my life did I have to restrain myself from violence. The man, his government and his followers are monsters. No-one else can be blamed for the vile actions that they have chosen to take.

Deep Breaths. Deep Breaths.

Considering that the report from the Democrats has, you know, actual facts and testimony in it and not just a bunch of whining about how Big Daddy Bush said it was true so it’s true and if you don’t agree the Republicans are all going to hold their breath until they turn blue?

The facts include that Democrats as well as Republicans believed Saddam Hussein was a threat. But I guess inconvenient facts—such as that the same report you are touting as showing you were “so fucking right” includes—don’t really matter when it interferes with your opinions.

Sharon, are you really that stupid?  I know you imbibe the Wingnut Koolaid regularly, but does it actually prevent you from seeing any of the inconvenient aspects of reality?…

Well, no, I’m not stupid and, at least, I can read. Gotta wonder if you actually read the NYT story before writing your post. Are you really that stupid?

Scott Ritter, the former U.N. weapons inspector said in 2002 that there were no WMDs. So did Hans Blix. But they were ridiculed and told they were “irrelevant”.

Sharon, you read one sentence out of an article, and you’re an expert.  I read the entire thing, and have no idea what I’m talking about.

Well, if we’re now at the point of setting up straw man arguments to support your thesis, I guess you have to do what you have to do. I did not, in fact, read one sentence. I read the entire article, which included inconvenient information for you proposition. Nor do I claim to be an expert. What I do claim is to be able to read and the article you linked to contained information that President Bush’s arguments were largely substantiated by the intelligence available at the time. That doesn’t comport with your claim that you were “so fucking right.”

That there were those who argued the intelligence was wrong—such as Scott Ritter—doesn’t refute this point. There were certainly conflicting reports about whether or not Saddam Hussein had WMDs—only one of the reasons given for invading Iraq—and the President decided to accept certain information and reject other information.

Sharon, arguing that something you did wasn’t stupid because other people did it too may work in WingnutLandia, but in the real world it doesn’t fly.  If it was stupid (and all these years later no one with a shred of credibility left will argue that invading Iraq was a good idea) it’s still stupid, no matter how many people are clinging to the sides of the bandwagon…

And using hindsight to say, “See? I was right!” is great in grade school arguments but does nothing in adult life. The fact is, many, many people in the intelligence community as well as leaders here and around the world, supported regime change in Iraq because Saddam Hussein was a threat to his own people, his neighbors, and even the U.S. He supported terrorists. He tried to have a U.S. president assassinated. He flagrantly violated U.N. resolutions. Arguing that it was “stupid’ because you preferred us worrying about tinpot dictators in Africa more than threats in the Middle East is, well, stupidity itself. Yeah, it would have made way more sense to say, “Hmm, we just got attacked by Islamic extremists. Let’s go after an African dictator who hasn’t got the most remote connection to anti-American supporters.” I guess in the moonbatosphere, that makes sense. In the real world, it’s just more idiocy.

Look at Rhodesia, Botswana, south africa

Botswana is doing quite well.  So are a number of other African countries.  In order to have a chance at success, a post-colonial African country seems to need a number of things:  a relatively homogenous culture or at least ethnicities and religious groups who can get along, natural resources and/or fertile land, and leaders who, even if they become de facto dictators at first, are relatively magnanimous and don’t rob the country blind.  My understanding is that Zimbabwe does have some ethnic strife, but it’s not insurmountable.  They have very fertile land.  But they’ve been saddled with the worst of the worst sort of dictator, determined to hold onto his own power and enrich himself and his cronies to the detriment of everyone else.  You don’t need to look any further than his land “reform” policies for evidence of that.

And this pro-Zimbabwe troll might not even be bought off by the government.  South Africans in particular have a great deal invested in seeing Zimbabwe’s land reform succeed.  Zimbabwe has a much smaller white population.  If land reform can’t succeed there, then it absolutely won’t succeed in South Africa.

Oh, and most of those war veterans aren’t actually veterans.  The war ended in the early ‘80s.  Most of those guys are in their 40s, 50, 60s.  Quite a few of the pro-government hoodlums are much younger.

But who is going to believe say? For all practical purposes, everybody else would think you are my sock puppet who lies or tell the truth equally. You could be the King of Belgium, MI6 operative doing damage control, or my figment of imagination to stir up the thread.

You don’t have the narrative of trust to verify the truth. Thus to everybody else, the burden of proof is yours. Everything is a lie until verified.

And using hindsight to say, “See? I was right!” is great in grade school arguments but does nothing in adult life.

Next time you rear-end someone with your car, remember to tell your insurance company that assigning the fault for that accident to you just because you weren’t paying attention to traffic is a grade school argument, so therefore your insurance rates shouldn’t go up.  I think it’ll go over really well.

Yeah, it would have made way more sense to say, “Hmm, we just got attacked by Islamic extremists. Let’s go after an African dictator who hasn’t got the most remote connection to anti-American supporters.”

It makes just as much sense as saying, “Hmm, we just got attacked by Islamic extremists.  Let’s go after a secular dictator who the Islamic extremists would love to have out of the way so they can take over and run rampant in Iraq.  Then once Saddam’s out of the way, we can let the country become a playground for the al Qaeda and Iranian agents that Saddam was keeping under control!”

<quote>In the case of Botswana, about 30 seconds.  Botswana’s transition from colonial rule to independence was smooth and relatively painless.  Standards of living, education, and health have been steadily improving since independence in 1966 with the major glitches being due to AIDS and the crisis in Zimbabwe. 
togolosh on 06/06 at 10:59 AM </quote>

... major glitch? That’s a convenient way of putting it. They lost nearly “half” of their adult population. Their average life expectancy is halfed, from 59 to 34yrs.  And this is a very small country, population one million or so. Population density is similar to South Dakota or Montana.

They don’t have enough people to go to war if they want to, their military size barely filling a regular university stadium. And this is a country under the British Commonthwealth. (which Congo, Zimbabwe and SA are not. They have few perks.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botswana

My zimbabwe prediction:

Tsvangirai will go in one way or another (If you observe he has major western backing) But based on his organizational capability, educational level and part performance, He won’t have a clue what’s going on.

so:

1. He will have to survive protected by mercenaries, if his car doesn’t get blown up soon. (Kenya style or rebel going down all the way from Somalia entering from Mozambique)

2. He has no base (military support) So again, he will have to rely on neighboring country, which he has no support whatsoever.  (Congo, Mozambique, South Africa are all ZANU’s allies with long history of base operation)  He will exhaust the country into endless civil war if he can survive assassination at all.

3. He still has to answer how to give divvy up the land. He obviously has no base, so he has to please white farmer in order to maintain western backing. (Which means he is toast against larger populous.)

4. After Bush is gone, I doubt Obama will support that sort of regime. So, how they gonna get US support is pretty neat trick. (They have 8 months to pull this off and have a self sustaining new government.)

5. My closest model to this will probably be Somalia vs Condi’s puppet. Practically collapse and dragging Kenya into ethnic strife.  (anybody notice that we install new regime in Somalia and Erithrea and that we have military operation trying to hold together urban gangland?)

6. I seriously doubt, white zimbabweans are going to get what they want and sustain new government. They are going to need massive arms and man power.

anyway, here is the reason why if you google “zimbabwe news”
all of them are “english” (US/UK, news.  eg. VOA, BBC, Reuters, ...  very states department-ish. No Fox-News (eg. Cedar Revolution, which is Israel interest)

So this is connected to mining and plantation interest, very old skool.  Even Tsvangirai is connected to “Rhodesia” a British colony.

“More than half of white Zimbabweans, primarily of English origin, arrived in Zimbabwe after World War II. Afrikaners from South Africa and other European minorities, including Portuguese from Mozambique, also are present. Until the mid-1970s, there were about 1,000 white immigrants per year, but from 1976 to 1985 a steady emigration resulted in a loss of more than 150,000, leaving about 100,000 in 1992. Renewed white emigration in the late 1990s and early 2000s reduced the white population to less than 50,000. English, the official language, is spoken by the white population and understood, if not always used, by more than half of the black population.”

Mike, yer not that good at it. Give it up.

Mike, as I said at the beginning of this thread—this clown (clowns? bot?) shows up on every blog, no matter its political persuasion, as soon as something not nice about Mugabe is said.

The same thing happens if you mention AIDS and Africa. Two minutes later someone shows up and says AIDS is not really caused by HIV, but instead is caused by dirty water or something, and therefore condoms are unnecessary. Anyone who disagrees with him is accused of being a racist drug company shill, and a homosexual (!)

MikeEss—I believe the troll of many names IS squashed. Each post has one or more of squashed’s signature grammatical errors, e.g. THIS IS how colonialism work. subject-verb agreement.

Ben D.—I don’t believe “squashed” is trolling for money; rather he just LIKES to.

@ Phill Williams.

You have a very warped understanding of Zimbabwe.

1) Tsvangirai has managed to become the leader of the first party in 20+ years to pose a serious challenge to Mugabe, and has managed to keep his party under control. He managed to lead the labour unions away from their coalition with government. And he has survived three assassination attempts. He has been beaten, arrested, falsely accused of treason. And still he keeps going.

2) In short he is very much aware of what is going on, at least he is more aware than Mugabe and his cabinet.

3) Since when should a democratic leader need a military base to gain power. Additionally, Mugabe’s hold on the lower ranks of the Zimbabwe military is decaying as fast as the economy. Also it is not the 80’s anymore. With the death of the cold war there is lot less funding in Southern African for supporting rebel movements in neighbouring countries. So Zanu is not going to be military supported in a terrorism campaign against the legitimately elected government of Zimbabwe.

4) Whites taking back the land in Zimbabwe is a talking point. A Robert Mugabe talking point. In the town/city where you live there are probably more “white” people than there are remaining in the whole of Zimbabwe. Ditto the whole 70% of land is owned by whites. Courtesy of some of the oppresive legislation passed since 2000, all land belongs to the state. Even people re-settled only have 100 year leases. So I call bullshit, yes he is going to have to make the Zim agricultural sector working again. How that is going to happen I do not know. Zanu PF members of parliament probably own more farms than all the remaining “white” farmers in the country.

5) Why shouldn’t Obama support Tsvangirai, because of your speculation that he will have to assume power by some type of military/mercenary/us intervention. No, there simply has to be a free and fair election.

6) With regards to the language issues. Most Zimbabweans I have encountered speak better English than most Americans one find on the internet. They also have greater reading comprehension.

7) White people + Rhodesia = Connection with discussion around Zimbabwe is a massive red herring. White people in Zimbabwe are not interested in or capable in taking control of Zimbabwe.

8) Why is it mostly western agencies reporting on the situation, one it is what you hear most, being in the west and all, and two even during the Rwandan Genocide most news about the situation came from outside africa based news agencies.

9) Additionally, do you know you can be arrested in Zimbabwe for reporting on the news, if you dont have accreditation with the state?

Twitch, Twitch…

7) do you know you can be arrested in Zimbabwe for reporting on the news, if you dont have accreditation with the state?
Liberaldirk on 06/07 at 01:56 AM </i>

Sure do. If I read the news correctly, Mugabe is at the beginning of Salvadorian option. He is unleashing angry mass to eliminate remaining white population, basic ethnic cleansing. It has not yet reached political clash or civil war.  Depending on the degree of state apparatus control he has, the result can be crude as time progresses. Naturally he will need to have some minority left to kick around if he decides to go down the usual authoritarian path. (probably under under 20K in urban area) I wouldn’t want to be white in Zim, unless I am the old member of pre-mugabe politee. This is fairly common actually, we do it all the time around the world.

Anyhow, here is the model. Political base that matters is armed group.  And since both Mugabe and Tsvangirai are children of armed revolution from unstable time, their base are armed political group. (the Egyptian MB model.)

Tsvangirai is very weak. Here is how I evaluate: how many time does he has to run away? And How many time he got beat up? From there one can surmise a) His ability to calculate danger b) his organizational capability to project or implied projection of force. c) His power asset. Those are what ‘base’ is about.

To put it bluntly, in post Mugabe politics he can’t operate in Afghanistan like environment, with small armed group shooting randomly. I doubt he can travel in the open protected by his organizational asset and base without getting killed. He doesn’t have enough control of his surrounding to protect himself. He can’t even “campaign” smoothly. I am afraid he won’t survive. This is worst case scenario of course, depending how ambitious his opponent is after he assume power.

Second. International support. The reason I brought up the set of news agencies. It shows who is backing Tsvangirai. Is it a push or a pull? Observing the pattern: It’s a push by UK/US agencies. So this is an active operation. He is being installed by colonial power. To major ground players, this is obvious. His legitimacy diminished. He is a peon of external forces. That’s why SA is not all that hot supporting him.

Remember, we are in time where Bush is doing high number of regime changes and nearly all of them fail after 2-3 yrs because it has no internal support. (Uzbek, Orange, Chedar, Saffron, Venezuela, Russia, etc, etc)  If Tsvangirai can’t even campaign when inflation is reaching 7-9 digit number, he is weak.

After this is done any country next door can inject armed group, all the major ones are ZANU’s ally. (Congo, SA. Mozambique) All can supply and protect ZANU.

From how you make your argument: Let’s just say, you are not going to get what you want.  White refugee cannot return under Tsvangirai. He is too weak to protect white land ownership over period of time when forces that protect him is gone. (money, weapon, UK/US government support.) This change happens because of massive external push, but all internal political organs are not with him.

It is not a question if one can push out Mugabe, but is the new guy strong enough to stay in power when the external pressure is waning and the backlash begin. He is not. He is just the latest Bush regime change project. From his organizational skill, resource, public support, international backing, he will dissipate quickly. Two or three years at most in normal political struggle. Faster if there is guerilla war. He will not survive a condition where ZANU returns to their guerilla root.

I think Mugabee chance of staying is only when he can survive the remaining 8 months window.

Hey dirk, I would believe you if this hadn’t happened. (so much for not re-establishing colonial power eh?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesia

The name was also used with the establishment of Zimbabwe-Rhodesia in 1979. After a brief return to colonial status as Southern Rhodesia from 1979 to 1980, the country became the independent nation of Zimbabwe in April 1980. The country is landlocked and located in southern Africa. Predominantly white Settler Governments governed the country until 1979, initially as a self governing colony then, after the Unilateral Declaration of Independence as a self-proclaimed sovereign Dominion and latterly a Republic.

Robert Mugabe, latterly based in Mozambique, led ZANU with support from the People’s Republic of China. Joshua Nkomo, based in Zambia and supported by the Soviet Union, led ZAPU.[7] ZANU and ZAPU together formed ‘the Patriotic Front’. Broadly, ZANU represented the 80% of the Black population who spoke Shona and ZAPU represented the 20% who spoke Ndebele.[8]

An impression quickly took root during the war that the Rhodesians were going to lose. Even the South Africans considered sustaining white minority rule in a nation in which blacks outnumbered whites by 22:1 as untenable.[7] In 1978 there were 260,000 Rhodesians of European descent and more than six million of African descent.[9] International business groups involved in the country (e.g. Lonrho) transferred their support from the Rhodesian government to black nationalist parties. Business leaders and politicians feted Nkomo on his visits to Europe, funding his ZAPU party and associated ZIPRA military operations. This funding allowed ZIPRA to purchase sophisticated weaponry on the international arms market, which ultimately helped lead to the demise of the Rhodesian state. ZANU also attracted business supporters who saw the course that future events were likely to take.[10]

I hope I have now proven without doubt, that current event in Zimbabwe is nothing more than colonial power messing around in Southern Africa.

The lie and deceit should be obvious by now.

yer a natural genius Mike. Congratulation, you are quicker than a lawn chair.

meh, yer too much of a coward to do that. Plus it’s not in your nature to be in a gang.

Ah yes. The “we don’t need politeness”, “I love punk” crowd .. suddenly all about demeanor and decorum. Do you even notice that you haven’t made a single useful comment in this thread yet you complain about what other people are saying?  That’s a jerk off. OD-ing on cog psych? All about behavior, mannerism, and lingo. What you want is endless group hug and sweet little lies packaged in pretty proses. You want a gated community where everybody is saying the same thing, regardless if it is wrong or not. Or worth prodding.

You are so busy thinking about building wall, you don’t even know if the wall will work or not or if there is anything worth defending after the wall is built.  Sounds familiar? What difference does it make if there is registration or not. (free wifi, auto proxy, darknet client, etc are all available in the open) feministe/-ing/shakes/wingnut blogs tried it and it can’t detect sockpuppets. Paranoia roams in the little echo chamber as a result, creating completely destructive delusion. They keep producing wrong analysis and growth stuck.

I am not interested in fucking with your little head, if that’s what you are afraid of. Yer not that interesting to me. In fact I seriously don’t think I can’t remember anything you ever post. I just assume, you do the same. I mean.. hey, the net is a big place, can’t be outraged about everything in it. Did I ever bother you with your inane ditties at other threads?

so… whatever. Satisfy your inner fascist. Everybody got one I suppose. But illusion of security is not security. And more importantly I don’t fucking bother you until you start bothering me.

Mike you seems to think your shit don’t stink, that your diarrhea is prettier than others. You actually believe your asshole taste better. So much so you think you being around longer entitled you some authority, despite you not really saying anything that makes sense. You can’t even make consistent argument about your demand.

You know what just strike me? You really are afraid! Of not being able to tell which one is true which one is dubious post. You really can’t tell. You use flimsy devices such as appeal to authority, association or familiarity to react. You can’t decide if you agree or disagree based on content alone. That bothers you.

And if you’re so incredibly knowledgeable about blogging and making blogs successful, why are you commenting here instead of competing with Kos?…

I comment in kos. why?
(a couple accounts too. lol. Now that’s an interesting place when it comes to identity and opinion.)

why I like this place ?

I thought this place is interesting. Amanda certainly has some opinion, something new I learn. Some other bothers the shit out of me. What’s more she sometimes takes unusual position that takes guts. What’s more this blog has pretty interesting cross section, the only feminism blog that also happens to be general political blog. OPEN! now that’s something worth keeping. Jess is interesting. Pam is definitely something. So overall this site gives me insight.

Anyway. I am not that into psychoanalysis with you. I can just read archive and construct approximate personality profile and guess what you gonna say for next few posts after I say certain things. but who cares…? It’s useless.

How about this:
you want to make me go away? Let’s do something interesting.

Predict how the Zimbabwe situation generally will unfold.Sequence of events, players, probable motive. How it relates to DC politics. If My general assessment is correct, and if you have significantly differing opinion, post it.

set some criteria and time frame.  The guy who get it wrong should go away forever.
If I am wrong I’ll go away. if You get it wrong stfu.

Interesting right? hardcore political analysis. much more useful than endless whining or arguing meta.

If you can’t judge content on it’s own, even at basic. Then it’s weak. of course nobody knows detail precisely, nobody is on the ground, and nobody can read mind. But that’s the point of open source analysis.

Context do matter. But you are insisting on wrong context. You are insisting on appeal to authority.  (Hence the NY Times article. It’s classic)  For eg. why “shock and awe”, judith miller or “Saddam tossing baby from incubator” story can work. Because it has NY Times brand stamped on them, despite being completely fictitious.

you can’t have wildly differing opinion based on this useless information: “I am Dr. Chenzira. I worked in Harrare 2 months ago (total lie) vs. Fiu Chenzira random poster you don’t like. (truth)”

All those information above you given me don’t mean squat. (Maybe it means something if I ask personal experience or eye witness on the ground. but for analyzing event judging with fact makes sense which doesn’t…they are useless.)  I don’t care if you are a mountain goat, an omnipotent being or a plastic cup. The logic has to fit. Sequence of event has to make sense. The utility of an open forum is to test idea against a public “hive mind”.

Also, there is also a danger knowing poster too personally. You can’t call out somebody’s crap, specially if it means something personally. (very rare, but it does happen)

Nobody can speak authoritatively on Zimbabwe, unfortunately we live in a democracy. And state forces are being used under “voters” name. Just like Iraq, nobody is nuclear weapon expert, but being curious about aluminum pipe, yellow cake and international diplomatic paper can give few insight.

Some weird shit is going down. That’s all I am saying.

PS. just a friendly advice: what you post stick online forever and ever. If you dish out hardcore political opinion. do use anon devices.  What you post can be reconstructed to create a profile of you. You can’t discount the possibility of a “big brother machine” in the near future.

yet you give the most useless advice to be implemented. So much for admitting you are a pro right?

on one person gives you nothing: Well if it gives you nothing, you wouldn’t make such big deal if I post under a random pseud posting good info or I announce my intention and posting some other random info. They all should mean nothing to you.

PS. So how was it tracing a public browser with randomizer referral?
Did you whack some poor guy? (see the problem there? You end up chasing crazy stuff and probably kicking a whole lot of wrong people. And all that has NOTHING to do with Zimb. or whatever you purport trying to protect.)

btw, redesign the theme, it has pure usability and visual flow. It affect traffic. (The very least you can advise that as a pro.)

yeah, everybody has inner fascist. The so called progressive sometimes is the worst. If In the future the Zimb, turns out to be the opposite as NY Times describe and it turns blood bath under Ts. Just remember, you were doing your fascist orgy instead of looking at the event.

But like you say, whatever…

http://www.alternet.org/story/86984/

South Africans wouldn’t be killing Zimbabwean refugees if it weren’t for the stranglehold Zimbabwe’s whites have on its farmland.

  “The native is to be treated as a child and denied the franchise. We must adopt a system of despotism in our relations with the barbarians of Southern Africa ... I personally prefer land to niggers.”—Cecil Rhodes, Founder of “Rhodesia” (Zimbabwe) (1887)

  “We do not accept that Britain has a special responsibility to meet the costs of land purchase in Zimbabwe. We are a new Government from diverse backgrounds without links to former colonial interests.”—Clare Short, UK Secretary of State for International Development (1997)

There was a sad little war in South Africa last week. Actually, it was one of the latest battles in a war that’s been going on for over a hundred years. Like they say in the Congo, “Mokilo e komplike,” “It’s a complicated world.

Oh I give up.

“South Africans wouldn’t be killing Zimbabwean refugees if it weren’t for the stranglehold Zimbabwe’s whites have on its farmland.” That is so fucking retarded it doesn’t even make sense.

There have less than three hundred white farmers left in Zimbabwe. Less than three hundred. Some fucking stranglehold.

What happened in South Africa is frustration at the ANC and its promises of service delivery spilling over onto available targets, e.g. foreigners, of which their is an estimated 5 million living illegally in South Africa. Also to make matters worse is the ANC is not shy harping about Nationalism. Nationalism + Violent Culture + Failed Promises + Illegal Immigrants = Violence.

PS Less people died in the Xenophobic violence in South Africa than have in Zimbabwe since the election. Which got more reporting…

the total number of large farmer is about 3000-5000. They largely control the entire thing out of 13 millions population or so.

There are only about 2 million farmers out of entire 300m US population, each sector is controlled less than 5 big corporation, some only have one or two.

If there is only “3000” farmers left, and the number is so trivial, why don’t they emigrated to Canada, UK, OZ or the US? Can they even do it in SA or Rwanda?

That’s right, there is no other place that can fit their farming size. All of them will be destroyed and unable to compete outside Zimbabwe. They will be small time farmers.

Mark Bannister, a tobacco farmer in nearby Vanessa, Ont., since 1980, speaks of one farmer “hitting the bottle pretty hard” and another under close watch because his family is worried he might take his life.

“This is a man now that’s on 24-hour a day surveillance by his family. He’s depressed. He’s on antidepressants, day in, day out,” he says, looking to the ground.

“People are scared.”

There were more than 4,500 tobacco farms throughout Canada in the 1960s. A decade ago there were about 1,650 growers.

Today there are 680, virtually all toiling in a small stretch of land north of Lake Erie known for its natural irrigation and fertile soils that provide Canadian tobacco a distinct flavour unlike any other in the world.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20050916/Tobacco_Crisis_050916?s_name=&no;_ads=

That is Canada, a country with high disposable income and large cigarette market.

Antioch, a question…

What is the difference between 3000 and 300. Quite a bit? Reading comprehension, you are doing it wrong.

There used to be much more (in the range you quoted) now there are less than 300 commercial farmers working in South Africa, but then at one time Zimbabwe had enough of an agricultural sector to feed its people. And your own example of how agriculture should perhaps demonstrate something. Control of the land =/ control of the country.

Also do you have any idea how bad an idea it is to attempt to rely on subsitance farming in Southern Africa with its routine droughts? Because then you have the unholy tri-fecta of starving people, unemployment and environmental degradation.

PS other African Countries, e.g. Nigeria, Zambia and Mozambique are welcoming the Zim Farmers.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,334756,00.html

Zimbabwe has limited amount of money to import fertilizer and farm equipment, not to mention limited access to world market, and human resource. That should explain output collapse

On top of that tobacco is a loser product these days, despite being a major zimb. export. If there are only 300 farmers left, what’s the big deal? Compensate them and ban white from farming in Zimb.

What is so important for white to farm in Zimbabwe? (or at all in Zimb.?)

Why are the inputs limited? Because virtually no-one is stupid enough to entrust money to a government which allows its President to blatantly steal it, no one is stupid enough to invest in a country where the government has a habit of doing mass expropriations without any form of compensation…. You loan me your car, I wreck it while snorting coke lines while driving… would you lend me your car again?

Why are the issues around white farmers important? Because Mugabe is running it as part of his election campaign, because there is such a thing as legal ownership and expertise? In a country suffering periodic droughts it is a really bad idea to encourage subsistence farming? A really bad idea dooming people to poverty and starvation.

White Farmers weren’t only producing Tobacco. They were also producing food, cotton etc… Which made up a large portion of the economy. Which Mugabe deliberately chose to sabotage.

But you are right, white farmers are currently irrelevant to discussions around the future of Zimbabwe. How they are/were treated is simply a sign of how authoritarian regimes demonises the other

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