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Next entry: A dialogue in pop music Previous entry: Your Developing Republican Primary Narrative

The obliviousness of our conservative dudely leaders

Choads

Posted at Think Progress:

 

During the House’s debate, Rep. Pete DeGraaf, a Mulvane Republican who supports the bill, told [Bollier]: “We do need to plan ahead, don’t we, in life?”

Bollier asked him, “And so women need to plan ahead for issues that they have no control over with a pregnancy?”

DeGraaf drew groans of protest from some House members when he responded, “I have spare tire on my car.”

“I also have life insurance,” he added. “I have a lot of things that I plan ahead for.”

I have a lot of thoughts on this that I'll soon be sharing, but I want to add this: I'm always dazzled by how little these middle-aged men who say these things know about women's lives, and how little empathy they have for women.  I'm surprised because most of them are married fathers, and yet their understanding of what pregnancy is like rivals that of a 5-year-old who has never seen a pregnant woman but has been informed that babies come out of mommy's tummy.  Their assumption that bearing and raising a child is roughly equivalent in difficulty to spending 45 minutes changing a tire suggests a remarkable disconnect from their own families.  Their wives must go to great lengths to conceal how much of a pain in the ass pregnancy and child-rearing are, and to present them only with picture perfect images of their very own homes that make it seem like pregnancy is a breeze, childbirth is no harder than having a minor bout of gas, children never cry or have needs, and probably that houses clean themselves.  These men probably think women don't pass fecal matter, as well.

I find this remarkable, because I doubt I could conceal this much of reality from a man I lived with, even if I wanted to.  My god, I've been trying to handle what amounts, in the grand scheme of things, to a very minor set of cat health problems, and I've had  my boyfriend's ear and support every step of the way, including having him hold my cat down so I could dose her with antibiotics.  I can't even imagine what it must be like to go through kids while concealing this much of reality from your husband so that he bop along on his merry, patriarchal, oblivious way.  I mean, a pet is like 5% hassle, 95% fun, and with kids, the ratio is more like 75-25, especially when they're little.  But in order for these men to think the way they do, they must assume kids are a breeze!  And it's because for them, kids really are easy.  They come fully disciplined, washed, fed, and nurtured.  If you believe children and pregnancy are about 5,000 times easier than they are, it must be very easy to  convince yourself it's no thing to force it on women.  

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 08:07 PM • (76) Comments

have you ever noticed the annoying habit righties have of declaring some solution they think is obvious and “common-sense” but, if you actually considered it, was a really dumb idea…  Creationists do it all the time. They come up with what they think is a clever argument (Bananas!  Peanut Butter!  Why are there still monkeys!?) and smirk as if to say “so there! Ha!), but they only end up looking amazingly clueless…

Comment #1: Woodrowfan  on  05/24  at  08:30 PM

I doubt it’s much trouble at all to “conceal” the work, effort, and PITA factor of something from somebody who’s deeply disinterested in the topic, deeply invested in not seeing it, or both.  It’s like that thing with a lot of MRAs, where one day the bitch just up! and left them! with no warning whatsoever! You know, where it was ten times more likely than not that the wife had been complaining persistently for years about not being happy, and what he could do to fix it, and the husband mentally classed it as “women making noise again” until he got served with papers. 

A lot of these guys have so deeply internalized the idea of women as helpmeets and appliances that their wives’ complaints or simple communication about how hard this shit is either just doesn’t register as real or are handwaved away as womanly exaggeration.

Comment #2: preying mantis  on  05/24  at  08:39 PM

@Woodrowfan

The best example of that phenomenon is “It’s snowing outside, some global warming huh? HA! HA!”

This summer I swear to God I am going to to say to every conservative I know how the fact that it’s 100 degrees in July and August proves global warming. It’s not true, but they deserve to be trolled like that for me having to dealing with two winters in a row of the above.

Comment #3: Ben D.  on  05/24  at  08:40 PM

have you ever noticed the annoying habit righties have of declaring some solution they think is obvious and “common-sense” but, if you actually considered it, was a really dumb idea…

“Having babies raised by gay couples is child abuse, because most children will be straight and it stands to reason that children need heterosexual role-models”.

Comment #4: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  05/24  at  08:44 PM

Oh, I forgot one about global warming that is even dumber. “How can carbon dioxide be so bad for the environment if we breathe it out?? Huh?? And plants breath it too!” or “If Co2 is so bad, why does Pepsi use it to make bubbles???” And they act like it’s some slam-dunk argument. The morons don’t even know the difference between burning trapped carbon and the natural carbon cycle.

Comment #5: Ben D.  on  05/24  at  08:45 PM

With these fuckers, it’s surely a nice little combo of willful ignorance and flat-out fucken lying.

BTW, I hope your cat is ok!

Comment #6: PhysioProf  on  05/24  at  08:49 PM

So abortion is so awful that insurance companies need to be banned from covering it in their general plans? But so inevitable that it’s totally reasonable to expect every woman to buy a supplemental policy for it? Well okay, then.

Comment #7: chingona  on  05/24  at  08:52 PM

Yeah, that part of it makes no sense.  You carry a spare tire because shit happens, right? But also somebody needs to ban car lots from including donuts and spares automatically, and heavily regulate who can sell jacks, and maybe pass a law excluding manufacturers from any sort of tax write-offs if they include space for a spare in the trunk, and try to charge anyone who helps you change your tire in the event of a flat with murder.  “You have to plan ahead for all the awful things that can happen in life, and also we are going to make it as difficult as possible for you to plan ahead for all the awful things that can happen in life.”

Maybe somebody should write a protest bill that makes it ten times harder to get life insurance if you’re a male Republican.

Comment #8: preying mantis  on  05/24  at  09:03 PM

When liberals try to pass laws requiring insurance companies to quit abusing their customers, Republicans have some supposedly principled stand against interfering in the free market.  When the free market leads insurance companies to do the right thing like cover abortion care as normal healthcare, the same Republicans are plenty happy to step in and force them to act like assholes.  Kinda surreal.

Comment #9: GumbyAnne  on  05/24  at  09:17 PM

Reminds me of the time my ex-husband was introducing himself as a stay at home dad when he was unemployed. The only problem was, I was paying $900/month for full time child care because my ex couldn’t handle being alone with our son for more than a few hours.  So I can see where this male priviledge thinks that dinner magically appears on the table when he gets home and his children learn manners all on their own.  Kids, they raise themselves!

Comment #10: phinky  on  05/24  at  09:23 PM

@preying mantis

I think it’s even worse than that. I would be like the government banning car warranties and extended service plans.

Comment #11: Ben D.  on  05/24  at  09:27 PM

I’m with mantis. If you’re good enough at ignoring all the inconvenient facts around you to run for and win office as a conservative republican, minimizing your wife’s pregnancies is pretty much a piece of cake.

But here’s the thing that really pisses me off about this kind of deliberate claim of ignorance: insurance companies don’t cover elective procedures. You want your insurance company to cover that methotrexate or D&C, you need a doctor to say you need it for your life or health, not just you want it and it’s your right to have it. So this isn’t like spare tires, it’s like saying that everyone who doesn’t carry a Jaws of Life in their trunk should be SOL if they get hit by a drunk driver and the EMTs can’t open their car door.

Once again, the pro-dead-woman faction wins.

Comment #12: paul  on  05/24  at  09:27 PM

I third mantis. These guys are probably really good at filtering out any sort of pain or complaint by their wives about the rigors of pregnancy, childbirth and parenthood. It might also have something to do that in their mental compartments, their wives, sisters, mothers, etc., are all put in the ‘Good Woman’ box. And of course, Good Women never get raped - only bad, slutty sluts do.

Comment #13: Ismene  on  05/24  at  09:55 PM

< bored socialite voice >  They have nannies, dahling. < / voice >

Really, the only thing that teaches conservatives empathy for anyone other than conservatives is their own pain.

Comment #14: Just a Singer in a Rock 'n' Roll Band  on  05/24  at  09:58 PM

(trigger warning:  I got nauseated writing this, but I thought the point I’m trying to make is worth it…)

Amanda represents the problem.  Not only is she not bearing white soldiers for the Fatherland, but she has an uppity attitude and a sharp tongue.

Only one solution:  Modern Female Circumcision, which doesn’t have anything to do with genital surgery.  The kind of surgery needed to stop Feminazis happens from the neck up. 

A quick transorbital lobotomy and that problem woman turns into a meek helpmeet, unable to formulate and propagate those harmful independent and unauthorized thoughts.  All the reproductive machinery intact and no willful mind to mess things up.

With forward (male) thinking like that, we can ensure the real-life Gilead is much more comprehensive and (re)productive than the fictional one…

Comment #15: MikeEss  on  05/24  at  10:03 PM

“I also have life insurance,” he added. “I have a lot of things that I plan ahead for.”

Oh, you mean like health insurance plans to cover hypothetical abortions?

Comment #16: Tobasco da Gama  on  05/24  at  10:13 PM

This isn’t DeGraff’s first love letter to women, or Kansans in general for that matter.  A quick perusal of his sponsored bills shows every piece of shit we’ve had to deal with this year.  He’s a real piece of work.

Comment #17: veggiegirl2  on  05/24  at  10:13 PM

You’re incorrect, paul.  The majority of private insurance policies DO cover elective abortion services.  Around 85% is the statistic I’ve heard and my own experience working in abortion clinics makes me thing that in my area it may be even more than that.

I have no illusions that this is insurance companies suddenly growing a set of liberal values.  It comes straight from the fact that when an insured person is pregnant, the insurance company is definitely on the hook for either an abortion or a pregnancy, birth, and new person on the policy.  The abortion is VASTLY cheaper, so if the abortion is what the patient wants anyway, the insurance company is happy to pay for it.

Comment #18: GumbyAnne  on  05/24  at  10:15 PM

I’m thinking it may not be so much that their wives are so skillful at hiding how much work bearing and raising children is, but that they are just willfully oblivious.

Comment #19: luxaeturna  on  05/24  at  10:16 PM

Paul,

My elective sinus surgery would have been covered by my insurance policy.  Then I waited until it wasn’t elective any more, which was really stupid.

/digression

And as others have pointed out, I don’t understand why he doesn’t help the dim-witted little ladies out by putting abortion coverage on all of our plans.

Comment #20: Ismone  on  05/24  at  10:27 PM

Having been married to a bozo like that, I can safely say that you don’t have to hide anything. They are masters at not seeing anything they don’t want to see, and even more, they are the masters of not caring about anything except pleasing themselves.

Comment #21: Jodi  on  05/24  at  10:36 PM

What everyone said and Jodi put wonderfully succinctly. And I’m very sad to note how many of us have found ourselves at some point in our lives in a relationship with this type of man. Myself included.

Sociopathy is not as rare as we would like to believe. It can be damn hard to see when that person is trying to keep it hidden from a mate, and at the same time damn obvious when that same person is being rewarded professionally and politically for it.

Comment #22: Dymphna  on  05/24  at  11:13 PM

What douchebags DeGraaf and his ilk are.

Quibble over this though:

I mean, a pet is like 5% hassle, 95% fun, and with kids, the ratio is more like 75-25, especially when they’re little.

Even infants are more fun than most non-parents think (including me BK).  It’s only in the first month, or sometimes longer, that the non-fun percentage is a lot higher than the fun, when they’re not sleeping through the night and you don’t notice their development (maybe from your own sleep deprivation).  Once they get beyond the non-sleeping, crying all the time phase, the hassle/fun ratio goes to 25/75, rising a little for about a year during the “terrible twos” when they learn to say no and throw temper tantrums.  All of that does not apply, of course, if the kid has a significant health problem.

Comment #23: MiddleageLiberal  on  05/24  at  11:51 PM

veggiegirl @ 17: I just read that page, and wow: what a piece of shit.

Comment #24: Kristen from MA  on  05/24  at  11:52 PM

Even infants are more fun than most non-parents think (including me BK).  It’s only in the first month, or sometimes longer, that the non-fun percentage is a lot higher than the fun, when they’re not sleeping through the night and you don’t notice their development (maybe from your own sleep deprivation).  Once they get beyond the non-sleeping, crying all the time phase, the hassle/fun ratio goes to 25/75, rising a little for about a year during the “terrible twos” when they learn to say no and throw temper tantrums.

Total derail, but Amanda’s 75-25 ratio seems about right to me, at least for the first few years.  Mine are 9 and almost 6 now, and it wasn’t until about 4 that they started to be more fun than not.  The first year was awful (although that is probably because neither of my kids were good sleepers; my oldest didn’t sleep through a single time until past his first birthday and my younger took until about 9 months) and after that they were still exhausting to take care of.  Really, at about 4 they can start to have a conversation and get to be a little more self-sufficient so that you don’t have to be “on” all the time, plus you get to see a personality beyond toddler tyranny.  Now is a good set of ages for me, although the attitude from the 9 year old is getting a bit old and I imagine the puberty years are pretty unpleasant as well.

Comment #25: ks  on  05/25  at  12:09 AM

Well having kids is like dying so I totally get the life insurance comparison.

Comment #26: Robert  on  05/25  at  12:21 AM

A quick transorbital lobotomy and that problem woman turns into a meek helpmeet, unable to formulate and propagate those harmful independent and unauthorized thoughts.  All the reproductive machinery intact and no willful mind to mess things up.

With forward (male) thinking like that, we can ensure the real-life Gilead is much more comprehensive and (re)productive than the fictional one…

How many good conservative wives are on SSRIs again?

Comment #27: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  05/25  at  12:23 AM

Yeesh, that’s not even a valid analogy. Carrying a spare tire is like carrying mace in your purse. Being raped is more like having all your tires slashed. Who prepares for that?

It’s not just conservative menfolk, either. I have had the unfortunate experience of dating a dude who was quite liberal on all issues…and completely clueless as to the actual care children require despite being involved with his young nephews. (Seriously, he agreed to babysit them both one day, because “it can’t be that different from teaching middle school.” Uh huh. Yeah.)

Comment #28: verity khat  on  05/25  at  12:30 AM

Oh indeed, liberal guys can have that cluelessness. Last weekend I was at a party in the home of a man who was very, very proud that he and his wife had chosen a compound last name, which apparently gave him a pass on a) not ever once doing anything to take care of their 3 young children in the 6 hours I was at his house and b) having a grand old time with his buddies while every woman at the party (other than myself and the only other single gal) hung around in the kitchen trying to reign in their children and keep them away from all of the (male) guests. The environment was so segregated, I can imagine how the men might forget that there was work going on one room over ... sortof.

Comment #29: Dymphna  on  05/25  at  12:57 AM

I see a beautiful Republican plan forming here: Tax vouchers for private baby insurance.

Comment #30: Ted H.  on  05/25  at  01:20 AM

Very well then. All males in Kansas should have to pay an automatic 100% increase on all healthcare. Being male is a pre-existing condition, since one has been groomed from cradle by rape culture and cannot be trusted to self-control. Thus, all males must be penalized to attempt to control this wantoness. Think of it as a rape-muzzle.

This will allow the funding of Planned Parenthood to reduce male-caused health problems in women.

If it sounds stupid when you apply misogynist policies to men, it reveals that a lot of politicians think women aren’t really people, but at the very least people-shaped flesh dummies who can be freely compared to (and treated as) machinery.

Comment #31: Princess Rot  on  05/25  at  05:52 AM

45 minutes for changing an tire?
Somebody must have had an poor jack.

Comment #32: Gumiman  on  05/25  at  06:08 AM

@2
It’s like that thing with a lot of MRAs, where one day the bitch just up! and left them! with no warning whatsoever!

And she did it just to steal half his money! And that’s why he’s a deadbeat today!

Comment #33: Triplanetary  on  05/25  at  06:31 AM

“Even infants are more fun than most non-parents think (including me BK).  It’s only in the first month, or sometimes longer, that the non-fun percentage is a lot higher than the fun, when they’re not sleeping through the night and you don’t notice their development (maybe from your own sleep deprivation).  Once they get beyond the non-sleeping, crying all the time phase, the hassle/fun ratio goes to 25/75, rising a little for about a year during the “terrible twos” when they learn to say no and throw temper tantrums.”

Should I just assume that you’d get ten kinds of bent out of shape at the suggestion that your wife might have a somewhat different take on those ratios and move on?

Comment #34: preying mantis  on  05/25  at  06:50 AM

But if I have a spare-tire uterus that I keep in my trunk with my junk and I use said spare-tire uterus in the case of an emergency like an unplanned pregnancy, wouldn’t I still be aborting one pregnancy?  And once I use my spare-tire uterus, is it reusable?  What happens to the first one?  Where can I purchase a second spare-tire uterus? 

Do I have to install it myself, or can I stand on the side of the road with emergency flares and a gurney all set up?

Comment #35: speedbudget  on  05/25  at  07:00 AM

I partly think that makes sense.  I’m prepared for the possibility of pregnancy - I found out how I would go about getting an abortion if I needed one, and I have the money saved to pay for one privately if I need to go that route (although I’m lucky because in the UK the NHS does cover abortions).  Indeed I’m also prepared for a whole range of decidedly unpleasant things that might happen to me.

On the other hand using the example of a flat tire is really irritating to me!  And also I don’t think this douche believes that “being prepared to get an abortion if I need one” counts as “being prepared for pregnancy”.

Comment #36: naath  on  05/25  at  07:07 AM

I was a stay at home dad—with a full-time job with thankfully flexible hours and no childcare—for the first ten months of our daughter’s life. I’d say the hassle/fun ratio starts around 75/25 and very quickly gets better after the end of the first month. The only really ongoing sucky part was having to get up two or three times a night and bring her from the crib to our bed so my wife could nurse her.

Now she’s 2.5, and the h/f ratio is at least the other way round. Sure, she’s a pain in the ass to put to bed, and she has random hypoglycemia/bossy moments, but for the most part it’s wonderful, and she says the absolutely most hilarious things. But we do notice a lot of other couples, most of whom would consider themselves enlightened, egalitarian and/or liberal, where the guy will say: “Hey honey, I think s/he needs a change.” But in our subculture the guys stand around talking about crappy shoegazer bands instead of sports.

My wife just read this over my shoulder and said “Yeah, that’s about right—but make sure you put in what an ongoing hassle the breast pump was.”

Comment #37: felagund  on  05/25  at  07:26 AM

The changing-a-tire tire analogy vs the difficulty of raising a child…facepalm.

It would only work if, when you got a flat tire, you had to change that tire not just once, but every day, three times a day, for three years.  And also wash the tire every day.  And rub a nutrient compound into the tire three times a day, every day, for over a decade.  And put a clean tire cover on the tire every morning, which you then had to wash before the tire could be covered by it again.

Comment #38: dopus dei  on  05/25  at  08:08 AM

Jodi @21 hits the nail on the head: these conservative politicians aren’t oblivious, they just don’t give a rat’s ass.  They literally couldn’t care less.

Comment #39: bouj  on  05/25  at  08:39 AM

And also I don’t think this douche believes that “being prepared to get an abortion if I need one” counts as “being prepared for pregnancy”.

I think this is also ties in with “I believe in personal responsibility, so I had to have the kid” line of thinking, without considering that someone’s “personal responsibility” means having an abortion because they’re not in a position to raise a child at that moment.  I’ve never understood that - I am all for meeting obligations and personal responsibility, but I don’t think that extends to birth control failure or not wanting to be pregnant.  Then again, I don’t look at sex as some kind of humorless chore or dirty, sinful act.  I also don’t think that if I have a child, that I have to demand that other people validate my life choice.

The 75/25 is probably for those who wanted children, which I’m sure that these dudes have no clue that some people out there don’t want those belligerent mess factories.  People who don’t want children and think that they have to have one will probably have a different opinion on that ratio.

Comment #40: SporkeyO  on  05/25  at  08:41 AM

No rightwing douchebags like DeGraaf don’t think children have needs. Republicans in congress are currently planning to cut one billion dollars from the WIC (Women, Infants, children) food program because it provides food for people who don’t really need it—the poor. Why wouldn’t they compare rape to the annoyance and inconvenience of a flat tire? They haven’t given any thought to rape because they assume that it will never happen to them, so it’s not important.

Comment #41: serious bette  on  05/25  at  09:22 AM

Should I just assume that you’d get ten kinds of bent out of shape at the suggestion that your wife might have a somewhat different take on those ratios and move on?
Comment #34: preying mantis

Go ahead and assume. Wife wouldn’t alter the ratios I described much in the direction of your perception on child rearing, since it’s something we’ve discussed, but nothing I say will likely disabuse you of that view. If you try to tell me I dominate her so much she’s afraid to tell me her true feelings on it, I’ll get a big laugh. 

Her miserable pregnancies and one very dangerous delivery help make us aware that forcing women to bear children is an abomination. (And for us make us think home deliveries with midwives are foolish, since wife would not have survived without “modern” hospital medicine, but that’s a different topic.)  However, those experiences don’t change our perception of the relative troubles and rewards of raising the kids. 

I agree that my perception and those of my friends are likely skewed by our wanting our kids, despite the trepidation and dread at losing our former happy lives.  Also as I said before, I recognize the ratio is drastically altered if there are significant health issues of the child.  I was just quibbling with the toss-off in the original article of “normal” childrearing being 75% hassle and 25% fun.

Comment #42: MiddleageLiberal  on  05/25  at  09:55 AM

I sit corrected.

But I would have to go with the much higher hassle-to-fun ratio. The only reason it seems low is that parents redefine their lives so that much of the hassle gets folded into everyday maintenance, and “fun” is things that are fun in the moment rather than “there isn’t anything I’d rather be doing.”

Yeah, sure, I’m still a little biased this way by the first 6 months or so of our eldest’s life, where hassle was hours upon hours of walking a screaming infant in a sling alternating with washing everything baby-contact in blistering hot water, and fun was “he’s asleep and we’re not”. But even now, when I look forward to picking him up at the bus stop, I’m not thinking “gee, this is ever so much more fun than a peaceful walk in the woods or a good online discussion.”

Comment #43: paul  on  05/25  at  10:24 AM

“If it’s between you having a baby and me getting re-elected, I know what I’m picking!”

Comment #44: Zifnab  on  05/25  at  10:28 AM

Because getting pregnant is just like a getting a flat tire. 

In spite of himself, Doofus actually makes an argument in favor of choice and broad recognition of reproductive rights, including contraception and abortion, despite his intentional belittlement of them in his choice of comparison.  The reason you have insurance and spare tires is to protect you against times when accidents happen or things don’t go the way you have planned, i.e., exactly why you need contraception, abortion, reproductive rights as a whole.

Comment #45: blondie  on  05/25  at  11:32 AM

i get this post & i agree with amanda’s point. and i realize that the 75-25 remark about parenting is not the most important part of her argument. i just like word on the street to include the feelings from parents who genuinely feel that raising their infant has been loads of fun.

i’m not here to trivialize how other parents feel raising their babies. i’m very grateful to have given birth to a very healthy baby and that we have the money to afford life plus baby. my kiddo is almost 11 months and, yes, there’s been a lot of hassle w/ the wake-up nursing, colds from daycare, working full-time, pumping, etc etc etc. it’s true, that stuff is sucky. but even with all the hassle & frustrating stuff, no way wd i peg it at 75-25. raising this baby is so flippin’ fun! for me, the hardest part was the first 6 weeks when i was nursing 10 hours a day and trying to get a hang of it all.  i have a really incredible group of parents, especially mamas, around me for support and that has gotten us through. (i think this is critical for new parents). at six weeks, things started really clicking for me and this has been without a doubt, the most fun year of my life. i’d peg the ratio at 10-90, really.  everyday is so much awesomeness. it’s been a year of falling in love anew every day. my heart’s never felt so full, my husband & I and can’t wait to get him home or to wake up with him.  yeah, waking up at 5:30-6 am on the weekends has been an adjustment but both of us wish we cd push pause. i wish i cd go back to the beginning and start all over again.

it took us a long time to decide that we really wanted to be parents, we’d been together for close to a decade when we decided to have a baby. we were very happy and were nervous about how much life was going to change. we definitely went through a grieving period while i was pregnant. but at least for us, so far, we had no idea how much we could love being parents. we didn’t know our hearts wd get bigger, that we cd love deeper and or that this little baby could teach us so much.  i’ve never felt more confident about who i am and what i’m doing. i’ve never felt so happy. i wish my 31-year-old self cd have told my 28-year-old self not to stress out so much about deciding how i felt about parenthood. that i could relax, at 30, i’d figure out my feelings and start an awesome adventure w/ my husband and now, our son. i know that this isn’t the case for every parent, especially parenting a newborn. it can can be exhausting and frustrating. and the game totally changes when your child has health concerns or there’s not enough money to even cover expenses. but it just frustrates me when the narrative on families is one where your kids only suck the life out of you. and we’re just lying to ourselves if we believe that we really love being parents and think our kids are kick-ass.

Comment #46: wannabechef  on  05/25  at  12:18 PM

I don’t understand how they think pregnancy and child rearing is such a breeze, either. I had a fairly easy pregnancy as far as they go, but my husband was still plenty aware of my aches and pains and general discomfort. Not to mention the actual birth process. I seriously feel sorry for the women in their lives.

Comment #47: Livi  on  05/25  at  01:52 PM

I’ve gotta go with #46. My first year with my first baby (I eventually had 4) was like being in love for the first time, but being encouraged to spend all my time with the beloved.  It totally helped that I was older, financially stable, in a stable relationship, and really, really wanted kids.  And nobody who doesn’t have all that going for them won’t have as good an experience as I did.  And I can do without a lot of sleep, and don’t mind being awakened a lot, so that helps too.  But there’s just nothing like spending an afternoon in a sandbox with a two-year-old for whom everything is new and interesting and exciting.  My youngest, twin girls, graduated from college on Sunday.  It’s been an amazing journey.  I can’t believe that it’s over, how quickly it went by,and how incredibly lucky I am to have made the journey. Yeah, 90-10 is more like it.

Comment #48: gretchen  on  05/25  at  02:33 PM

And despite having a good experience myself, I think DeGraaf is a douchebag, and feel sorry for his wife, because I’m sure she got absolutely no support or sympathy or help while raising his kids while he cruised past oblivious.

Comment #49: gretchen  on  05/25  at  02:35 PM

But there’s just nothing like spending an afternoon in a sandbox with a two-year-old for whom everything is new and interesting and exciting

There is if it’s just not you. I like kids a lot, they’re great fun and I enjoy their company enormously. But much as I enjoy babysitting I could never, ever, be a primary carer. I mean, the relentless grind of looking after _me_ gets boring. One afternoon in the sandpit, a week, a holiday in the sandpit - fantastic, I love it. Every day in the sandpit for a year, and I’ll be crawling up the wall.

And an awful lot of kids are not easy. I had health issues - minor ones, but the doctor every week, fevered nights, and all the rest of it. Other kids won’t eat. Others don’t sleep, for years and years, and they aren’t necessarily matched with parents who can cope without sleep, and not everyone can sleep when the baby sleeps. It’s fantastic when things go well, but no-one knows that they are going to be the lucky one and not the mother of a baby with reflux who won’t sleep for a year, or just not easy, or allergic to X, or the father who has to give up work to care for the kid damaged at birth.

Comment #50: Nineveh  on  05/25  at  02:47 PM

It’s not that he’s oblivious to the realities of pregnancy.  It’s that he just doesn’t think rape is that big a deal, or that it’s something victims bring on themselves.  The thought process that produced “be prepared” also seeks out reasons to call rape victims sluts or liars.

Comment #51: jeevmon  on  05/25  at  03:15 PM

#50 - I absolutely agree.  Some kids are easy.  Some kids are so hard it would be easier not to have kids.  That’s something I think about with regard to my own kids.  I’d love to be a grandma, but so much can go wrong.  What if there are health problems, or the baby is autistic, or all kinds of negative outcomes?  It’s great if everything works out, and incredibly difficult if it doesn’t, which is why I never, never ask my married daughter when she’s going to give me a grandchild.  If the answer is “never”, so be it.  It will spare me a lot of worry as well as a lot of potential joy.  Wouldn’t it be great if life had easy answers?  And again, that’s why nobody at all but the person who would have to deal with all the consequences, should decide whether someone should continue a pregnancy.

Comment #52: gretchen  on  05/25  at  03:24 PM

What I don’t understand is why the insurance company lobbyists haven’t yet swooped in with a re-draft of the legislation that says they can’t sell abortion-only policies or other policies that include abortion coverage, and a big ole stack of money for Representative Clueless’ re-election campaign.

Or maybe that’s what all this is about:  Representative Clueless doesn’t feel the insurance lobbies have thrown enough cash his way, so he’s threatening to interfere with their ability to sell policies until they cough up the dough.

I’d be really interested to see the insurance industry response to this, because I know they’re not going to let some little piss-ant legislator in Kansas stand between them and some profits.  This guy is simply not important enough to their overall plan to bleed all excess private capital out of the labor force and reallocate it to the insurance company.  And if he doesn’t get out of their way, he’s likely to be squashed like the insect he so obviously is.

Comment #53: Rachel Tyrel  on  05/25  at  03:25 PM

Admittedly, my ex husband is a…well, there really isn’t a word. But this little nugget might illuminate how/why these guys get to be so clueless.

When my son was about 3, I woke in the night hearing him cough repeatedly over the baby monitor. After a few minutes, I got up and went into his room. I leaned down over the bed, putting one hand down…and slipped and fell face down into what turned out to be a massive pile of kid-vomit (It wasn’t coughing). My son was covered. The bed was covered. I was covered. (Kid had a stomach flu and raging fever). My ex, hearing the noise, walked into the room, switched on the light, switched it off again and said “That’s disgusting. Can’t you shut him the hell up? I’m trying to sleep. I have to work tomorrow” and returned to bed.

Now…faced with the prospect of having to clean up & comfort my son, clean up myself, change the bedding etc., I didnt have the time or energy to go start an argument about how clueless my ex was being. It just wasn’t worth the trouble. I had more important things to deal with.

When you have small children, there is a tendency to prioritize their needs over the almost daily struggles with patriarchal bullshit that goes on in some households. You can learn to ignore a lot of crap that you know is bullshit anyway, in order to have the energy to deal with the things which matter more in a day-to-day way - the immediate needs of the kids. Is it “wrong?” Maybe, but most mothers of small kids have a limited amount of energy to address issues outside of their kids/job/house.

Comment #54: Broce  on  05/25  at  03:29 PM

Funny you should mention the pets. We just got a puppy this weekend, partly because we wanted to ramp up to kids one day but thought we should see how we do on keeping a dog alive….and yes, we researched the hell out of it. One reason we thought it would be a good time to do it was because my husband was unemployed and has been since January, so aside from job hunting, he’d have time to help train the pup. Monday he had a day where he had to go to the dentist, go to the vet, and basically run a shit-tonne of errands after we got the meds for our puppy. It was a taste of what being a stay-at-home parent has to deal with, and I think his appreciation ramped up appreciably. (We discussed it in relationship to parenthood and the assumptions people make about stay-at-home parents and how much work it actually is.) I also have to say it’s nice to see the partnership actually in action and realise it’s not just him telling me stuff I want to hear. He’s engaged on this task at the same level (if not more sometimes) as I am.

Comment #55: PixelFish  on  05/25  at  03:32 PM

#54: Seriously, you married that guy?

Comment #56: Eric_RoM  on  05/25  at  04:00 PM

Yeah, I know. Turns out, according to therapists, he was/is a sociopath. I honestly didn’t know who he was when I married him.

And I’m an intelligent woman, who was pretty much *born* a feminist. I have no explanation other than his sociopathy. He is pretty much the same 20 years later. My son graduated from college last week. No note, no phone call, no card….nothing. (Naturally there was no child support, and I paid 100% for college too). 

My mother refers to him as “pond scum” but I think that’s insulting to scum.

Comment #57: Broce  on  05/25  at  04:08 PM

Seconding GumbyAnne re insurance and abortion being way cheaper than the alternative to the insurance companies. (I’m a little suprised they don’t have pregnancy councillors who promote it, for profit rather than health reasons, making it equally awful).

Comment #58: helen w. h.  on  05/25  at  04:22 PM

Broce, he’s probably the guy writing the trollery in the comments under the “friend zone” essay below.

Comment #59: MiddleageLiberal  on  05/25  at  04:25 PM

preying mantis @34, felegund@37, SporkeyO@40, et al:
I think the ratio is dependent on a multitude of factors, including but not limited to: health of the child, health of the parent(s), economic situation of the family, stability of the family, support available from the community, desire to have a child. 
Even so, mine were funnist from 6 mo to about a year when it tanked and then again improved steadily from about 4YO on.  I literally went nuts/nearly had a nerveous breakdown when I was a SAHP, mostly due to lack of adult contact but also due to economic issues and lack of available family and community support as that was immediately after a cross-country relocation.

Comment #60: helen w. h.  on  05/25  at  04:35 PM

“#54: Seriously, you married that guy?”

Victim-blamey, much?  A lot of abusers and megawatt assholes manage to pull off the Charming McCharmalot from Charismaville, NC act until they feel their partner is sufficiently stuck that they can drop it.  See also, “He was a great partner right up until I lost my job and was completely dependent on him for food/shelter/medical care” and “Things were fine until we moved somewhere he had social ties and I didn’t.”

“But this little nugget might illuminate how/why these guys get to be so clueless.”

A person smart enough to tie their shoes and not drown in their cheerios don’t have to be constantly challenged on their patriarchal “childrearing isn’t my problem” bullshit unless they’re already pretty invested in not seeing it, though.  It’s not a fight to have the father of a vomit-covered, fever-running child give a shit about the child’s wellbeing unless he’s already decided that he shouldn’t have to give a shit, his time is too important to be wasted with this, and stop being such a bitch about everything, jesus, kids are women’s work.  That a lot of mothers are too emotionally sapped and physically worn out to butt heads with a father who’s decided that he shouldn’t have to acknowledge the children unless he feels like it isn’t a failure on the mothers’ part.

Comment #61: preying mantis  on  05/25  at  05:20 PM

Seconding GumbyAnne re insurance and abortion being way cheaper than the alternative to the insurance companies. (I’m a little suprised they don’t have pregnancy councillors who promote it, for profit rather than health reasons, making it equally awful).

Me too.  I want to know why insurance companies don’t promote abortion, as a counterpoint to all the religious condemnation of it?

Technically, the argument could be made that since Prosperity is an Outward Sign of God’s Favor, insurance executives and the shareholders who live off insurance company dividends are quite obviously members of the Elect, and have obtained carte blanche Divine Authorization to promote abortions over childbirths, if doing so will enhance their prosperity. 

I’m not asking to be a smartass, or JAQing off.  I really want to know.  Surely, I’m not the first one to come up with this idea. 

 

Comment #62: Rachel Tyrel  on  05/25  at  06:28 PM

To Mike Ess @#15

Usually, you’re really good at this Mike, but I think Hollywood beat you to it by a couple of decades on this one.  Remember The Stepford Wives?

Comment #63: phylosopher  on  05/25  at  06:47 PM

I’m thinking it may not be so much that their wives are so skillful at hiding how much work bearing and raising children is, but that they are just willfully oblivious.
Comment #19: luxaeturna on 05/24 at 10:16 PM

Uhm, conservative women may be somewhat complicit in this , too.  Yes, there are still a few of them who won’t discuss “female Problems” in front of men, the kind of women who hide their razors so that “he” won’t know women have leg and underarm hair, and put on lipstick before bed; who, as sahms schedule housework when “he” isn’t home so that he won’t ever see them scrubbing the bathroom.  I had thought they were a dying breed, evidently DeGraaf’s wif eis a species remnant.

Comment #64: phylosopher  on  05/25  at  06:53 PM

“I want to know why insurance companies don’t promote abortion, as a counterpoint to all the religious condemnation of it?”

Companies tend to be run by people who, being less than 100% rational profit-machines, are going to be subject to their own blind spots, kneejerk reactions, and disproportionate fears of public opinion blowback.  It probably boils down to not promoting abortion as good for the bottom line because enough of their employees—from top brass down to mid-managers—get all squishy when thinking about teh babies or enraged when thinking about irresponsible sluts that their personal biases outweigh the profit motive.

Comment #65: preying mantis  on  05/25  at  07:08 PM

Gretchen @ #48 - But it definitely changes depending on which kid we’re talking about.  First kid - oh yeah, all that attention can go to the kid and it can be idyllic or close to it.  Second kid… well while you may want to spend that kind of time with BABYYYYYYYY! the first kid (depending on birth interval) is still around.  And wanting attention tooooooo, NOWWWWWW!  Add in job demands for non-SAHP’s, not to mention other responsibilities, and that ratio changes quickly.

Comment #66: phylosopher  on  05/25  at  07:25 PM

“Usually, you’re really good at this Mike, but I think Hollywood beat you to it by a couple of decades on this one.  Remember The Stepford Wives?”

I’ve never seen the original The Stepford Wives, just the Mathew Broderick/Nicole Kidman version.  And it wasn’t anything to write home about.  But I take your point.

However, did you click on the image link I put there?  That was not a typical clinical picture hidden away in some dusty book, but an actual advertisement attempting to sell the idea that lobotomy might be good for everyone who isn’t happy all the time, or some such crap.  Very deeply disturbing…

I suppose these days the actual physical destruction of brain tissue would not be necessary if you could achieve the same “desired” result through chemical means.  Sick…

Comment #67: MikeEss  on  05/25  at  07:30 PM

#61 “That a lot of mothers are too emotionally sapped and physically worn out to butt heads with a father who’s decided that he shouldn’t have to acknowledge the children unless he feels like it isn’t a failure on the mothers’ part.”

Absolutely isn’t, but I have spent a lot of time over the years having to “defend” this to, generally but not always, younger, childless feminists, who feel I somehow “let down” feminism by not taking on each and every instance of my ex husband’s behaviour. Frankly, I was too busy trying to survive the situation with my emotional and mental health intact. It’s difficult to live with an emotionally abusive sociopath without absorbing the shit they routinely fling…and survive it I did. I went on to single parent for 20 years, raise my son without his assistance, build a career, pay 100% out of pocket for my son’s college education. (I’ve recently been sidelined with Multiple Sclerosis). Truly, I have nothing to feel defensive about, but I can’t help sometimes but slide into that ... see as point the fact that the victim blaming inherent in the comment about me marrying him *completely* escaped my notice until you pointed it out.

Even us tough old second-and-a-half (not really old enough for second, too old for third) wave feminists fall prey to this sort of thing.

Comment #68: Broce  on  05/25  at  07:40 PM

Or Mike, we could just use digital media to do that, right?  wink

Comment #69: phylosopher  on  05/25  at  07:42 PM

Broce, I was in a relationship with a sociopath too. Ignore that victim-blamey shit. People who say that kind of thing have never been close to a sociopath. They have no idea. They want to believe they could never get manipulated that way, and they are wrong.

You really, really have no idea, dude from comment #56. And you might want to think a bit about why your knee-jerk reaction to Broce was to publicly post a comment shaming her for someone else’s behavior.

Comment #70: Dymphna  on  05/25  at  10:46 PM

I suppose these days the actual physical destruction of brain tissue would not be necessary if you could achieve the same “desired” result through chemical means.

That reminds me of Vonnegut’s “The Euphio Question.” How fun.

Comment #71: junk science  on  05/25  at  11:10 PM

Broce and Dymphna, I am right there with you. My ex fooled everyone in both his family and mine; when the you-know-what hit the fan and he was exposed for something else entirely, no one would have believed it except for the video-taped proof that he’d made himself.

For anyone else: If you’ve never been gaslighted, you have no idea what it’s like. You start to doubt everything you ever knew.

Comment #72: Jodi  on  05/25  at  11:57 PM

I am throwing in with Broce and Jodi and Dymphna. (And I was just explaining “gaslighting” to someone yesterday.)

A good sociopath can fool you for quite some time. I have only one ex who might qualify (Mostly chance pulled me away and it is only in retrospect that certain things look suspicious) but have family and friends who have been there.

Comment #73: LC  on  05/26  at  10:16 AM

Broce: 3rd gen, mid-20s, childless feminist here… and I just want to give you mad props for getting through that. That’s… oof, I can’t even imagine how tough that had to be. So no, you have nothing, nothing to defend, and I hereby offer to head-thwap any compatriot of mine who says otherwise. wink

And yeah, sociopaths are walking mindfuck factories; I’ve never dated one, but had one in my circle of friends in college. Oy…

Comment #74: Falyne  on  05/26  at  11:00 AM

Maybe the wives and daughters of this man and his friends all have servants.  Nannies do the childcare, maids keep the mansion clean and boarding schools take the children as they grow older.  The main job of a wife like his may indeed be social, hosting or attending the dinners and parties where this fellow schmoozes.

Comment #75: someofparts  on  05/27  at  01:01 PM

but…all cars come with spare tires. you don’t have to plan for it. it’s just there when you need it. so all women should automatically have abortion insurance. QED

Comment #76: shade  on  05/27  at  07:47 PM
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