*retch*

Other questions on the worksheet include, “Prop 8: Great proposition, or the greatest proposition?”

Memo to the Transgender Lobby: women do NOT want biologically-born men (wearing dresses and high heels) with male genitalia in their public restrooms—period.

Speak for yourself, bub.

Women’s restrooms all have stalls in them, and if there’s a tranny/cross dresser using the women’s room, I don’t see anyone’s junk.  If the bathroom is a one-person dealy, I’m still not going to be able to see anyone’s junk unless I accidentally walk in on them.  The point being, I’m not going to be seeing anyone’s intimate parts while they’re peeing, and really, just the presence of transgendered people will not threaten me in the least.  It’s not like I have a natural “penis alarm” or something that immediately alerts me to the presence of a penis.

Haha )  suck on this, Christianists.

Wow, the anger and weird fixation(s) could keep a therapist in business for years if the “Peter,” would only seek out one.  Methinks his last name and his first, has as much to do with his “problem,” as anything in the real world.  Um, yikes.

I’m the first person to jump in and argue whenever someone tries the old “all homophobes are just gay people in the closet” line, but seriously, what is it with this clown’s obsession? The undercover trips to Gay Days at major amusement parks, Folsom and IML have to count for something, too.

Just throw your legs in the air and get over it, for God’s sake!

This would include the supposed “right” of a very young boy to come to school in a dress if he thinks he should be a girl.

What frightens me most is not that Mr. Peter is focusing all his time, energy, and thought-power on something that really isn’t important, like people being able to wear whatever clothes they feel most comfortable in, but that Mr. Peter seriously believes that this “issue” is of the UTMOST importance.  More important than war crimes, starving children, the melt-down of ecosystems, ad infinitum.

I like how these groups all *insist* that gay behavior is a choice; thus the ‘changeable’ in the first of his questions, despite all research to the contrary.

And some of them who do this, will turn right around in the next breath and hiss that when the ‘gay gene’ is identified all gays will be aborted. (Despite their also opposing abortion… and, you know, the fact it’s not just one gene.)

So which is it guys? Innate or genetic?

Wow. Shit.

Do you think this kind of crazy hate is more effective in stirring up homophobia or making people who are kind of borderline on gay rights understand why they are needed?

The idea of transgendered men in the ladies room does worry many women, I think, not about the actual transgendered guys, but the possibility that sexual predators and voyeurs might put on a dress to gain access to the ladies’ room, and how can one tell them apart from the men who actually need to be their for their own safety?

The main question on this issue should not be: “What’s wrong with gay marriage?” or “How does my ‘gay marriage’ affect you?”

Actually, no, you’re wrong. Those are exactly the two questions America needs to ask itself.

Asshole.

Dear Peter,

I’m sorry, but my spare money has already been pledged to the King Canute Tide Management Program.  Maybe next year.

Yrs etc etc.

“and how can one tell them apart from the men who actually need to be their for their own safety? “

Aren’t the transgendered at that stage taking female hormones so they pretty much look like a woman? I think the transgendered would even make women think they were women wheras a sexual predator in drag looks like a sexual predator in drag.

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t the reason for allowing men in the woman’s bathrooms under the transsexual laws was because they were undergoing gender reassignment and would cause confusion if they tried to enter the man’s bathroom right?

Those poor heterosexual taxpayers, whose money might get spent on “subsidizing” married homosexual couples….

Do not gay people pay taxes, too?

The old “MENZ IN TEH LADEEZ BATHROOMS OH NOES” argument dates back to Phyllis Schlafly, who insisted that passing the ERA=mandatory unisex bathrooms everywhere=men seeing women nekkid…or something. It was never really clear what we were supposed to be scared of. But nice to see Peter recycling that old chesnut.

If a dude is a sexual predator, why would the “lady” symbol on the bathroom door magically protect me?  If sexual predators in bathrooms are a problem, then let’s address that, not start freaking out about what equipment the person in the next stall has.

“Why should homosexuality-based “rights” (mandates) take precedence over Americans’ historic religious and First Amendment liberties?”

For the same reason that the rights of slaves took place over Americans’ historic ability to own slaves, their religious books and teachings condoning slavery.

Will pastors who teach correctly from the Bible that homosexual behavior is sinful be brought up as “accomplices” if someone who attends their church attacks a homosexual?

Because what’s really important in that scenario is that the pastor be completely sheltered from the incredibly slim chance that his preaching counts as incitement to violence (in the legal sense).

Of course, it would be AN ATTACK ON THEIR RELIGION!!!1!!ONE! to suggest that they maybe shift their focus to something that doesn’t have hurting people as its logical conclusion (indeed, a direct commandment in the text), like helping the poor (I don’t owe those lazy slobs my hard-earned money!) or not passing judgment (BLASPHEMY!).

Honoring homosexual unions and rewarding them with government benefits only undermines genuine marriage in society.

Does he also believe that Oliver Wendell Holmes’s argument that freedom of speech “...does not protect those who falsely shout fire in a theater and thereby start a panic…” only undermine fire safety? Societies confer a thousand benefits on married couples to reward stable monogamous relationships. Does giving them to gay couples somehow devalue them nearly as much as giving them to frivolous straight “marriages?”

The real way to protect traditional marriage is to stop scapegoating it to promote a homophobic agenda.

Lord, do I ever hate the toilet defense.  The specter of men and women mingling in public restrooms must genuinely bother a lot of people, because it helped defeat the ERA even though the ERA had nothing to do with it.  But I’ve never understood it.  I went to a college with coed restrooms, and I recently had a transgendered coworker who used the ladies’ room.  In neither case was there ever any trouble, unless you count the one time in college I caught a guy peeing with the stall door open.

And geez, if a “very young” boy wants to go to school in a skirt, why shouldn’t he have that right?  How come the First Amendment rights and traditional American liberties La Barbera keeps screeching about don’t apply to that little boy?  I wasn’t aware that the First Amendment read, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances…unless it’s some sissy-boy putting on a skirt.  That shit’s so gay, dudes.”

And geez, if a “very young” boy wants to go to school in a skirt, why shouldn’t he have that right?

There was an article in the Boston Globe about this several years ago.  It was reported that a kid in the suburbs (can’t remember which one) went to school as a boy before winter break, but after break came to school and wanted to be treated as a girl.  That child’s parents were cool even if a few others were freaking out, but the principal had the best quote ever: “Most of the kids are more concerned with what’s for lunch.”

I spent my first three years of college living in dorms and using all gender bathrooms. I never once saw anyone else’s boobs, vagina, or penis (correction: I did see my own). Not even an ass check! That third year I lived in an all gender dorm, where MEN AND WOMEN COULD BE ROOMMATES. It truly was SCARY, CRAZY, AND DISAPPOINTING how much of a non-issue and non-problem it was.

Besides, how is a straight guy supposed to get a little Larry Craig fun at the airport if he can’t put on a dress and go into the women’s restroom to tap his foot (well, his heels)?

I’m the first person to jump in and argue whenever someone tries the old “all homophobes are just gay people in the closet” line, but seriously, what is it with this clown’s obsession? The undercover trips to Gay Days at major amusement parks, Folsom and IML have to count for something, too.

If nothing else, Peter’s intense fascination with man-on-man sex makes people like our own trolls feel a little better about their own odd obsession with the topic (the one that, along with their concern over microscopic cell clusters, drives them to comment here).

In Peter’s honour, I present a classic article from The Onion.

As a born, and still, straight female, just let me thank Peter - presumably neither of those - for telling me what all women want. And by the way, what “women” in the school bathroom. Wouldn’t it consist overwhelmingly of girls?

All crimes involve hate at some level and all Americans — including homosexuals — deserve equal protection under the law without regard to special criteria.

dumbshit.  “Hate crime” is such a misnomer; we really need a better term b/c even having this idiot think that the above is a proper argument is embarrassing.

Defacing someone’s property is a crime.  There’s an amount of hate involved, no doubt, or just stupidity.

Defacing a black family’s lawn with a burning cross is a “hate crime”.  Not because it involves hate anymore than randomly defacing someone’s lawn would, but b/c the message isn’t personal, or solely personal.

Burning a cross is a hate crime b/c it is a message to all black people to stay out.  That’s what brings in the kicker.  Not the thoughts in the criminal’s head, not some amorphous ‘hate’ at the root, but a class-wide systemic hate for a class of people.

——-
all genders use the bathrooms in my house.  Except for my mom’s house, I’ve never been to anyone’s house where a bathroom was off limits to one gender.

I’m grateful for the “family” bathrooms that are more and more available.  Sometimes an adult of one gender needs to aid a child or adult of another gender.

Sexual predators don’t need a unisex to rape someone.

I wonder why its such a huge issue for little boys to wear dresses, but little girls can wear pants no problem.  They can even have short hair!

‘Obama’s call to allow open homosexuality in the military — during wartime no less’

Can someone translate for me why this is magically worse ‘during wartime’?  I’m not sure I’m getting the wingnuttery correct and I don’t know the US military at all - is it something like ‘people will try and protect their partners over order obedience’ and if so, how does that differ from married/defacto folks serving anyway?  I don’t know.

It sort of seems more like: ‘Oh God, the enemy will see this and get ideas about it!’

When I was about 14, I was at Cleveland Stadium for a Browns game. I realized that if I waited in the incredibly long line for the ladies’ room, I would probably miss the rest of the quarter. So I walked into the men’s bathroom, past all the guys peeing in the “trough”, (basically a long, mass urinal), went into a stall, used it, washed my hands and left. Some of the men looked a bit surprised, but no one cared. Or at least I THOUGHT no one cared, but maybe Peter was one of those men and my female presence scarred him for life. That would be awesome.

past all the guys peeing in the “trough”, (basically a long, mass urinal),

I fucking hate that thing.  I realize we get no privacy, not even a little thing dividing people. I guess for a tea queen like Larry Craig it imight provide a lot of window shopping opportunity, but it feels way too much like being an industrial farm setting.  And it takes a lot of work to avoid spillage. Just ewwwwww all around.

I’ve done that in a gay club Liz. The line for the women’s bathroom was super long (there was like, one stall or something) and there was NO LINE for the men’s half of the bathroom. For some reason there was a bouncer standing in front of the men’s bathroom in order to keep women out (perhaps they’d had problems before, I don’t know).

Even still, I looked at the bouncer dead in the eye did a little “I gotta pee” dance and told him I’d be quick. He motioned me in and I ran into the nearest stall (there were other men peeing in the trough) peed, washed my hands and quickly dipped out of there. Meanwhile, the line for the ladies room hadn’t moved. I will forever be thankful to that bouncer.

As far as the little boys wearing dresses in schools. Let’s not forget, women wearing pants means they’re elevating themselves to “male” status, which, as we all know, everyone not male wants to be! But for a boy to wear a dress, that means he’s lowering himself to the lowly level of “female”. But I’m sure if LaPeter and his ilk could have their way then women wouldn’t be allowed to wear pants either.

I’ve used the men’s room at sporting events and restaurants when I was desperate and the women’s room was in use, and no one has ever said a word to me.  I frankly have never checked to make sure that the person using the stall next to me isn’t a tranny, and I can’t see any reason why I should.

As for Peter LaBarbera, he needs to volunteer at a soup kitchen, or go build homes for the homeless in New Orleans.

Sometimes I think the ‘dude in the girl’s room’ thing is partly male priviledge.

Guy facilities have unshielded urinals or troughs, and maybe they think, even subliminally, that the ladies is the same way. But no, we don’t have ‘out in the open’ facilities, but they can’t imagine that because if male=default, then men’s facilities = default, too.

“women do NOT want biologically-born men (wearing dresses and high heels) with male genitalia in their public restrooms—period.”

Like everyone else here, I’m a woman and I disagree with this statement vehemently.  I don’t mind having transgendered persons in my bathroom.  We have stalls anyways.  What’s more, I asked my husband what his reaction would be if transgender man came into the bathroom while he was standing at a stall and he seemed confused by the question: “why would it bother me?”

‘Obama’s call to allow open homosexuality in the military — during wartime no less’

Can someone translate for me why this is magically worse ‘during wartime’?  I’m not sure I’m getting the wingnuttery correct and I don’t know the US military at all - is it something like ‘people will try and protect their partners over order obedience’ and if so, how does that differ from married/defacto folks serving anyway?  I don’t know.

It sort of seems more like: ‘Oh God, the enemy will see this and get ideas about it!’

The convoluted “logic” of his argument is rooted in the homophobic (and misogynistic) stereotype that homosexuals are all naturally effeminate, and that to be feminine is to be weak and incapable of handling the physical and psychological rigors of active combat duty.

He’s a turd.

Ah! The Trans movement has grown enough so that we now warrant specific hatred from the Pope AND the american fundies too!

Nice to know we’re making an impact

“Just ewwwwww all around.”

Don’t forget something that makes a lot of straight men uncomfortable. The John Holmes factor.

Stalls are something I think should be standard along with self cleaning bathrooms. When the general public uses the bathroom they often don’t care to clean up after themselves or flush the toilets.

I hate this guy. CADC was amusing in a surreal way; not him. He’s just loathsome.

Maybe THAT’s Peter’s problem with IML!

One of my favorite IML (International Mr. Leather, a gay leather event in Chicago) was going to the restroom during intermission. Since there were nearly infinitely more men than women, men were (as is often true at all male gay venues) using both the men’s and ladies” restrooms.

One biological woman who had finished in the restroom came out and addressed the waiting line of men:
“Don’t panic! I left the seat up when I finished!”

I hate you, therefore I’m stealing your TV or bicycle seat?
I hate, therefore I speed, talk on my cel phone, and drive?
I hate, therefore I dump toxic pollutants into the environment?
I hate, therefore I skim money from the till?
I hate, therefore I buy from slave labor overseas?

WTF, man?

“Memo to the Transgender Lobby: women do NOT want biologically-born men (wearing dresses and high heels) with male genitalia in their public restrooms—period.”

I would think that a far better option than trying to use the men’s room and having some bigoted goober beat the shit out of you.

Whoa, late to the party, but…I have a story!

My boyfriend has a daughter who is completely dependent on others in order to go to the restroom. She’s 17 years old and he has to take her to the restroom when she needs to go…it’s been this way her whole life.

I asked him which bathroom they go to in public places and he said the Mens room. I was kind of surprised. Why don’t you take her to the Womens’ room so she won’t see any penis (she’s a teenager, I figure if she’s typical, then that sort of thing is still squicky).

He insisted he’d get in trouble if he went in the womens’ room. I told him (and I believe) that no woman on earth would fuss at him, I mean it’s OBVIOUS he’s there to help his wheelchair-ridden daughter. He doesn’t believe me, but I think I’m right.

Complete tangent on the women being uncomfortable using the same restroom at the same time thing:

At least here in the frozen north, it seems to be some sort of unspoken cultural expectation that women don’t have bodily functions.  No belching, no farting, no pooping, etc.  I remember going on a choir trip in high school, and one of the guys was horrified at another girl for daring to burb while in the presence of his manly self.  Sadly, that’s not such an uncommon attitude (though it’s fading into more of a a general, non-gendered expectation of keeping one’s grosser bodily functions to a minimum around those who aren’t family or close friends.)

This even extends into the restroom—things are deathly quiet in there.  The pee hitting a toilet sounds like Niagara Falls; the crinkle of tampons/pads sounds like someone’s holding a microphone up to it.  No matter how badly a woman has to evacuate her bowels, many will hold it until the restroom is empty of other people (if possible).  I know some women who refuse to even let go and pee until the restroom is clear.

So in this context, if a woman has already been conditioned to be uncomfortable with anyone else even hearing her pee, I can understand why she’d be even more embarrassed to have her male coworker or whatever have access to the bathroom while she’s in the stall. 

Which strangely doesn’t really bear any resemblance to the argument that little Peter is making.  Not to mention that having unisex bathrooms become more commonplace would probably be a good thing , proving that there’s not something mystically different between the sexes which bars them from using the same bathroom stalls.

The idea of transgendered men in the ladies room does worry many women, I think, not about the actual transgendered guys, but the possibility that sexual predators and voyeurs might put on a dress to gain access to the ladies’ room, and how can one tell them apart from the men who actually need to be their for their own safety?

I have a friend who was raped in a public woman’s restroom, by a man not wearing a dress or in any way appearing transgendered. So I don’t really see how keeping transgendered ppl out of restrooms does anything to stop actual rapists (who probably don’t give a fuck about what the sign says).

I have also had a kid in a woman’s restroom scream, “there’s a boy in the girls bathroom!” when I went in. I can only guess it was because I have very short hair. i have huge boobs, no way an adult would mistake me for a man… but what if that wasn’t the case? what if i was a woman that really did look like a man? or what if you couldn’t tell what sex i was? should there be some kind of penis/vagina test we have to pass to get into the fucking restroom?

“I told him (and I believe) that no woman on earth would fuss at him, I mean it’s OBVIOUS he’s there to help his wheelchair-ridden daughter. He doesn’t believe me, but I think I’m right.”

Yes, to 99.999% of the women on the planet. However….

It will be far easier to deal with the lawsuit or arrest (if it ever came to that) regarding a disabled woman requiring total care by her father, brought by some utter asshole whose self-esteem is so low that a wheelchair ridden 17 year old MIGHT have seen his penis (laughed out of court and no lawyer will touch the case).

than

the lawsuit by the Shocked and Scandalized, DECENT, I tell you DECENT woman who was Utterly Traumatized by the perfectly healthy man who went into the restroom, and what proof do we have that his daughter needed to be there, the poor thing, isn’t it shocking that he would abuse the trust of his DAUGHTER - his DAUGHTER as a prop to let him indulge in his shameless desire to be in the ladies’ room. After all, she is nearly adult, and he keeps seeing HER nude, what else might he be capable of!?!

A higher percentage of men might feel weird about it, but a far, far, far lower number of men would EVER consider legal or police action.

I should add, my opinion is at least a commentary on the depths to which I think sleazy lawyers will sink than anything else.

” have also had a kid in a woman’s restroom scream, “there’s a boy in the girls bathroom!” when I went in. I can only guess it was because I have very short hair. i have huge boobs, no way an adult would mistake me for a man”

Could you describe your body some more such as being thin or fat? What gender was the kid?
Because there are men with breasts usually incredibly fat.

I love your president elect =)

wooo .

suck it fundamentalists ! !

Could you describe your body some more such as being thin or fat?

Uh… *creeped out* No, thanks.

Do you think if I look like a man I shouldn’t be allowed in women’s restrooms?

What gender was the kid?

female

Because there are men with breasts usually incredibly fat.

Well, by “breasts” i meant “mammary glands”. I’m pretty sure even THIN men have breasts, and that fat men don’t grow mammary glands.

Do you think fat men shouldn’t be allowed in men’s restrooms?

“I’m pretty sure even THIN men have breasts, and that fat men don’t grow mammary glands. “

Actually there are a few medical cases that show otherwise. A mammary gland is just an altered sweat gland. Oh every fetus started off as female it’s just a few genetic alterations on the y chromosome that turn most y chromosome bearers into men.

“creeped out* No, thanks. “

Just trying to figure out why a female child would think you were a man.

Just trying to figure out why a female child would think you were a man.

I think the child thought i was a man because I have short hair. Kinda like how at work when i cut my hair one time from chin length to 1/2 an inch, and the men at work said, “who’s the boy who just walked in?”. They KNOW i’m a woman, but i don’t follow gender stereotypes, so therefore, maybe i’m actually a man.. I have never had an adult actually mistake me for a man. Plenty of ppl assume I’m a lesbian because of my short hair though, so I was assuming the child thought I was a boy for the same reason adults assume I’m a lesbian.. of course who REALLY knows what the kid was thinking? everyone ignored her, it’s not like i was kicked out of the restroom.

But lets say i really did look like a man, or my gender was indistinguishable. What restroom should i use?

“fat men don’t grow mammary glands. “

Actually there are a few medical cases that show otherwise. A mammary gland is just an altered sweat gland.

Uh, so when u get fat, your sweat glands could alter into mammary glands? Cite please…

“Uh, so when u get fat, your sweat glands could alter into mammary glands? Cite please…”

No I meant there were a few cases where men had grown mammary glands. The mammary gland is an altered sweat gland hence why men can develop them. Extra nipples that can lactate have been found in men but is more common in women.

http://dermatology.cdlib.org/124/case_presentations/pseudomamma/conde.html Presents a case in which a nipple grow on a woman’s foot.

How long before a shift in radical tomfoolery has a state,the mere whim of it, exercise it’s so called right to ban civil rights on other Americans just because they have the votes.
Can we in the future see, say for example California vote out marriage for heterosexuals.
Lets say the impetus is ridding the state of divorce laws or just vindictive playfulness. I can see it now; the mentor will be that bastion of anit marriage, Tom Lykis. He will convince all his minions that fair play is justfied and now that it is found legal that one group can deny some other group the civil rights of marriage; then, just ban the institution all together.
Lykis supporters, straight men and women alike will join the gay community, liberal progressives, and the enormous youth voting block and make marriage illegal for heterosexuals. To add spice to the whole thing; lets add what was added to Prop 8, a retro clause. Let’s void all heterosexual marriages in the last (oh let’s have fun with this) say 80 years; then everyone is living in sin, and we’re all bastards.
Mom and dad, grandpa and grandma, aunt and uncle will have to move to seperate rooms or else they are committing some kind of sin.
The pandora box you open now may come back to bite you. Never say never.

Lymis, I suppose you’re probably right. But, man, you’d have to have a pair to pull a stunt like that, legally. But there’s always a pearl-clutcher SOMEWHERE. Sigh.

Will pastors who teach correctly from the Bible that homosexual behavior is sinful be brought up as “accomplices” if someone who attends their church attacks a homosexual?

Oh please oh please oh please oh please oh great FSM do grant us this one little favor!