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The political problem with the trigger option

Besides the one that Digby describes, is the same problem with any and all arguments against the public option.  And that it’s still a tactic to avoid offering a competitive public option.  And if you put up those obstacles, indulge those obstacles, or even consider the arguments for those obstacles valid, you are telling the voters this:

You value corporate profits over human lives.

In fact, you value corporate profits over your own electability, because you’re willing to write a law forcing people to write a check to a private company who is actively seeking ways to deny them care.  That’s another way of saying, “Vote for my opponent,” and then of course said opponent will get to work minimizing the benefits that insurance companies have to provide for that check you’ve been forced by law to write them.  Even if you’re motivated strictly by lobbyist pampering and dinners, then you should see political suicide as a problem, as it will cause that pampering to go away. 

There is only one argument against the public option—-or for a trigger, really.  That argument is that companies that are in the business of denying care should not be required to compete with a non-profit government entity in the business of providing care.  The idea that the already wealthy are too delicate to have to compete is a politically stupid message most of the time, but right now, it’s particularly ugly, since the rest of us are feeling that climbing unemployment keenly, and the knowledge that we have to compete—-not just for extra money but for our very lives—-is unlikely to make us sympathetic to super-rich people who will be fine even if they lose this competition. 

The worst part is that these town hall sideshows are so silly and out of control that Democrats can’t even pretend to be responding to what the citizens want.  It’s obvious that people who show up screaming about how they want the government out of their Medicare and who go into a faint because they heard that the health care bill has no provision to ban abortion aren’t people that you can respond to in any way.  They can’t compromise or understand the concept.  They’re too busy struggling against reality itself.  No, if they ditch the public option, it’s for one reason and one reason only: They don’t consider the voters important, just the insurance industry lobbyists.  Our lives versus their profits?  Our lives didn’t have a chance. 

The worst part is that in all this, the people who sensibly think that corporate profits shouldn’t even be a contender when set against human lives are the ones being told we have to explain ourselves.  Ross has a darkly funny post about this:

“You’re overly hung up on this so-called ‘Public option’,” we’re told during the Sisyphean conversations on this topic. “What’s the big deal? Shouldn’t the goal be a good bill, rather than some arbitrary position?” Well, since we’re obviously just ignoring reality today, that’s certainly a good question.

He explains that alternative bills are aimed directly at taking your money and giving it to insurance companies, but I’m going to question whether or not that’s a “good question”.  The people who value human lives over corporate profits aren’t the ones who should be required to explain ourselves.  Our argument is sound.  We believe all people are equal, and that the rich’s wallets are therefore not more important than your lives.  We’re the ones who stick by the principles of our founding documents, and we’re the ones who steadfastly maintain that human life is valuable, even if the human holding it isn’t a rich insurance company executive. 

It’s the people who are putting corporate profits ahead of human lives who need to explain themselves.  They’re the ones who should be asked why corporate profits count more than lives.  They’re the ones who should be asked why working class citizens should be forced to decide between paying for an insurance bill or paying their rent in order to make sure that no insurance company executive goes without a fresh supply of yachts and fancy cars.  They should be forced to explain why insurance company executive yachts count more than your ability to avoid homelessness, or your ability to have a perfectly treatable illness actually treated.  (If you think that laws against rescission will stop the practice, keep kidding yourself.  The fines will be low enough to count as the cost of doing business.)  Instead of asking why “the left” is so unreasonable, let’s start asking why everyone else thinks human lives count less than rich people’s dollars.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 09:53 AM • (41) Comments

I am rather amazed at the shit you Americans keep eating without that much serious complaint.

I mean, take the Baucus proposal with it’s 13% “limit” on how much of a family’s gross income should go into medical premiums.  I made the rough calculation that, taking into account our progressive income tax levels, my wife and I pay roughly 19.5% in our federal taxes.  With assorted deductions, it’s more like 18.5%.  And for that, we’re paying for roads, the military, parks, police, and, oh yeah, our basic health care.

You are probably the biggest nation of complete suckers on the planet.

Comment #1: KeithM  on  09/09  at  11:07 AM

I am waiting (not with a lot of hope, I admit) to see just how this proposed trigger option would work. If it’s some kind of legislative benchmark and timeline bullsh*t where congress has to come back to the issue, then it’s worse tha no good at all. If it’s based on a determination by the secretary of health and human services or someone else like that, then I might say hurray for the arbitrary power of the executive.

Comment #2: paul  on  09/09  at  11:07 AM

(The Snowe version of the trigger comes pretty close to this. There’s a determination ahead of time—which requires the insurance companies to publish their planned rates and stick to them—of whether affordable health care will be available, and if it’s not the public option goes into effect. Obviously it all depends on how “affordable” is defined, but as long as the executive branch gets to choose that commission…)

Comment #3: paul  on  09/09  at  11:36 AM

I think the basic idea is that poor-ass white people think that if it weren’t for those lazy-ass niggers and spics, they’d be rich-ass white people.

Comment #4: PhysioProf  on  09/09  at  11:44 AM

We already have a trigger—>what is going on now is requiring legal reform.  The insurance companies have already proven themselves unable to provide health care at reasonable rates (because that’s not their purpose—their purpose is to provide for ever increasing profit by higher premiums covering less care). 

If the free market and for-profit insurance worked best, then why would people be uninsured and desperately looking for relief?  Why would our life expectancies, amenable death rates, and infant mortality rates be the worst in the Industrial Nations while we spend twice as much per capita?

Our current conditions prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that giving free reign to insurance companies and the free market does not work, as long as you describe “work” as providing decent health care to human beings and not siphoning money from the middle and lower classes when they are at their most desperate and sending it to the uppermost rich.

It all boils down to this:

What VALUE do insurance companies add to the transaction?

They don’t provide the medical care, they don’t provide the hospitals, they don’t provide the medicines: they RATION it by restricting which doctors you can use and what medicines and procedures you can receive.  They accomplish the rationing by leeching money out of the transaction.

What VALUE are insurance companies adding?

They are an unnecessary payment system that sucks billions of dollars out of health care and puts it in the pockets of a very few.  Their entire existence is based on sucking money out of people’s pockets and refusing to pay claims.  Their purpose is not to provide healthcare, but to make ever increasing profits.

A trigger is delay.  A trigger gives insurance companies 47 million new customers and the time to figure out legal loopholes and ways to squeeze out maximum profit without setting off the trigger.  A trigger gives insurance companies time to fund campaigns for candidates who will claim all the reform was a failure and scrap the trigger and reforms entirely.

A trigger is unacceptable.

Comment #5: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  09/09  at  11:48 AM

I think the basic idea is that poor-ass white people think that if it weren’t for those lazy-ass niggers and spics, they’d be rich-ass white people.

More that the poor-ass white people think those lazy-ass n*ggers and spics should know their place and be working for them.

Comment #6: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  09/09  at  11:50 AM

“It’s the people who are putting corporate profits ahead of human lives who need to explain themselves.  They’re the ones who should be asked why corporate profits count more than lives.  They’re the ones who should be asked why working class citizens should be forced to decide between paying for an insurance bill or paying their rent in order to make sure that no insurance company executive goes without a fresh supply of yachts and fancy cars.  They should be forced to explain why insurance company executive yachts count more than your ability to avoid homelessness, or your ability to have a perfectly treatable illness actually treated.”

Amanda, how long have you lived in America?  (rumor has it ~32 years or so…)

You know Those Questions Must Not Be Asked.  We live in an economic system where we proles belong to the upper classes to with as they like.  Corporations are just one tool in their arsenal.  Politicians are another.  The MSM is yet another.  The Base is another.

We do not exist to live our lives, find love and be loved, learn about each other, enjoy good food, good conversation, and a good life. 

We are a means to an end.  We are like the humans in The Matrix, but not living in gelatin-filled tubs.  Instead of our energy going to fuel giant amoral computers who run everything, our energy fuels incomprehensible wealth among a few amoral human beings, who live lives so different from our own they might as well be another species.

Universal Healthcare has been turned into a line in the sand, which we cannot cross without fatal consequences, cheerfully brought by the real citizens of America.  But our overlords seem not to understand that we already face fatal consequences if the system is not fixed.  They pour millions into stopping reform, but our lives and our children’s lives are at stake.

Sooner or later we will get Universal Healthcare.  The only question is how long and how many lives will be lost…

Comment #7: MikeEss  on  09/09  at  11:55 AM

The only, repeat only, reason that we will not have the public option is that we can’t get 50 Dem votes for it in the U. S. Senate.  Otherwise, it’s a go.

Comment #8: Magis  on  09/09  at  12:09 PM

I think the basic idea is that poor-ass white people think that if it weren’t for those lazy-ass niggers and spics, they’d be rich-ass white people.

Sometimes it’s more passive than that—I’m originally from Mississippi, and what really comes through among the softer racists is resentment that the minorities are the ones driving down their quality-of-life stats to such embarrassing levels.  You see, it’s actually a really nice place and they have big-box-stores & Starbucks and everyone wears shoes and McMansion developments spring up in rural fields and so forth, but those people are so sickly/shiftless/undereducated that things just look worse to outsiders than they really are.  Never mind that even among the relatively privileged the standards are still mediocre; it’s all because they’re saddled with an even-worse-than-average minority population.  After all, look at the inner cities, right?

The idea that it’s actually the fault of the white power structure—those who could actually change things if so inclined—that things are so miserable for blacks and singularly unimpressive even for whites never even occurs to them.

Comment #9: latts  on  09/09  at  12:09 PM

Amanda wrote:

In fact, you value corporate profits over your own electability, because you’re willing to write a law forcing people to write a check to a private company who is actively seeking ways to deny them care.

Yet, Rep. Mike Ross (D-AR), who took the lead in July in negotiating changes to House Democrats’ health overhaul bill to make it more palatable to moderates, said Tuesday that, after hearing from his constituents during the congressional recess, he could no longer support a plan with a government provided option.

Apparently at least one Democrat, who supported the public option, changed his mind after hearing from the people he’d count on next election.  Perhaps he disagrees with your assessment concerning electability.

Serious question: if you were really right, that voting against this one will hurt the re-electability of congressmen, why aren’t they falling over each other to support some form of the public option?  These aren’t stupid people; they have already won elections, and know what it takes.

Comment #10: Dana  on  09/09  at  12:26 PM

Or, perhaps put more simply: if your congressman is a Democrat, and he doesn’t support the public option, are you going to vote for his Republican opponent in 2010?

Comment #11: Dana  on  09/09  at  12:30 PM

There is only one argument against the public option—-or for a trigger, really.  That argument is that companies that are in the business of denying care should not be required to compete with a non-profit government entity in the business of providing care.

It’s more like an argument that any industry in a capitalist system should not have to compete with a government (read taxpayer) subsidized entity.  That argument has some appeal.

If something like 80% of people like their health care coverage, it’s a bit silly too say that voting against a big overhaul of the system is political suicide.

Insisting that the public option must be part of the bill or nothing should be done at all is in my view another example of the left insisting on ideological purity to the detriment of getting any progress.

I’m in favor of a UK-type of socialized medicine system but that’s not likely to happen.

Comment #12: MiddleageLiberal  on  09/09  at  12:35 PM

“Insisting that the public option must be part of the bill or nothing should be done at all is in my view another example of the left insisting on ideological purity to the detriment of getting any progress.”

So, is “Middleageliberal” actually a codeword for “I sold my soul to the wingnuts for an SUV and a McMansion so don’t mess things up by insisting on pursuing those silly progressive ideas”?...

Comment #13: MikeEss  on  09/09  at  01:01 PM

Or, perhaps put more simply: if your congressman is a Democrat, and he doesn’t support the public option, are you going to vote for his Republican opponent in 2010?

I don’t think I would bother voting at all, I think to an extant this is how we wound up with Bush, normally reliable Democratic voters stayed home in 2000, and they may stay home in 2010 if the Democrats mess up health-care

Comment #14: John Rove  on  09/09  at  01:04 PM

You know something?  Fuck this.  Why is the left the only one that worries and hems and haws over ideological purity?

The right rams ideological purity down the Republicans throats.  They demand it, and they demand it with the force of god behind them.  Why do we have to worry about “electability” and “incrementalism”?  That’s not our job.  Our job (the public left) should be screaming from every rooftop, in every city, for Nationalized Health Care.  We should be having giant protests of health care companies.  We should be organizing letter-writing campaigns until the legal aids eyes are bleeding.  And it sure as fuck shouldn’t be about the public option.  It should be about Nationalized Health Care, full stop, because the only way we’re going to get ANYTHING is if we argue the extreme.  Then the “compromise” will be the public option.

Stop being reasonable, the right’s base sure as hell isn’t.  If that’s anybody’s job, that’s the job of the politicians.  Our job is to be a pressure cooker for OUR stuff.  Our job is to not to have reason and facts (though those help an argument with everyone else).  Our job is to be LOUD, and maybe then something’ll get done.

Comment #15: Antigone  on  09/09  at  01:12 PM

Also, I think it’s time to reconsider third parties.

Comment #16: Antigone  on  09/09  at  01:15 PM

Or, perhaps put more simply: if your congressman is a Democrat, and he doesn’t support the public option, are you going to vote for his Republican opponent in 2010?

No, asshole, I’m voting against him in the PRIMARY.  Voting Republican is no different and might be worse.

We have too many traditional Republicans in the Democratic Party.  The GOP has just gone ape-shit, so I think the Dems will split—>the Blue Dogs, or Traditional Republicans, and Progressives.  Racist fucks and soulless motherfuckers will still vote GOP.

But if it’s a choice between two corporate-owned weasels?  That’s no choice.  I’ll write something in.

Comment #17: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  09/09  at  01:24 PM

But if it’s a choice between two corporate-owned weasels?  That’s no choice.  I’ll write something in.

“I believe the puppet on the right shares my beliefs.  Well, I believe the puppet on the right is more to my liking.  Hey, wait a minute - it’s the same guy holding up both puppets!” - Bill Hicks.

Isn’t it marvellous how you have a choice between Tweedledee and Tweedledum, and they trumpet so loudly how great your democracy is?  We’ve been there.  But the US political system is way too calcified in “The Land of the Free” for a push towards a Constitutional amendment to alter the voting system to even be a remote possibility.

It’s not a bug; it’s a feature.  Just don’t ask for whom…

Comment #18: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  09/09  at  01:34 PM

Things are going to have to get Depression-era bad before we can get that level of reform instituted again. I really think the healthcare system is going to have to actually collapse before any problem gets solved.

Comment #19: Entomologista  on  09/09  at  01:38 PM

“I really think the healthcare system is going to have to actually collapse before any problem gets solved.”

I guess the “good” news is that any plan likely to make it to Obama’s desk will make things much worse, so we may be closer to a collapse of the system than ever before…

Comment #20: MikeEss  on  09/09  at  01:46 PM

If they pass a law requiring us to pay for insurance while not providing an immediate provision to control costs either through very strict regulation or the immediate institution of a public option, I will, for the first time in my life, be strongly in support of finding the right third party to back.

Comment #21: Dymphna  on  09/09  at  01:59 PM

Dana:

If you believe what a blue dog tells you about his constituents you might as well believe Inhofe on climate change.

Comment #22: paul  on  09/09  at  02:02 PM

It’s the people who are putting corporate profits ahead of human lives who need to explain themselves.  They’re the ones who should be asked why corporate profits count more than lives.

I agree with Amanda 100%.  But I also know the answer.

Berke Breathed was right when he said (in an early Bloom County strip) that the great principle this country was founded on is: MONEY TALKS.

Comment #23: liberalrob  on  09/09  at  02:13 PM

If they pass a law requiring us to pay for insurance while not providing an immediate provision to control costs either through very strict regulation or the immediate institution of a public option, I will, for the first time in my life, be strongly in support of finding the right third party to back.

There is no credible 3rd party to back.  It would have to be created from scratch.

I keep wondering how they would enforce such a mandate, and what the penalties would be.  Are you summarily arrested if you show up at the emergency room and don’t have insurance?  The jails would overflow even more than they do now, and if I’m in jail I certainly will feel no inclination to pay a goddamned cent to anyone.  Would a hefty fine be assessed?  That’s a laugh, when the problem is that people can’t afford the insurance now, so hey let’s assess a fine they also can’t pay, on top of their hospital bill, heh!  Brilliant!  And when they don’t pay the fine, what then, coach?  Lock ‘em up?  Brilliant again!

If a health insurance mandate gets passed, with OR WITHOUT a public option (but especially without), it will be proof positive that our elected officials are as dumb as a box of rocks.  The only mandate that makes any sense at all is single-payer for all.

Comment #24: liberalrob  on  09/09  at  02:24 PM

“Insisting that the public option must be part of the bill or nothing should be done at all is in my view another example of the left insisting on ideological purity to the detriment of getting any progress.”

Just want to add that the whole point of my long winded screed Amanda kindly linked to is that, contra centrist appeasers, we lefties are as compromised as it is possible to get and still claim to be holding a position. We’re not insisting on rigid idealogical purity because if we were then the Single Payer would be on the table and not this weak sauce public option. The public option is the fucking compromise, asshole, and you know it.

Or more simply put,  I’m sick to death of being expendable, of being expected to bargain away every single one of our priorities, and I think I’m not the only one. It’s time for the people who have ruined this country to give a little, not the other way around.

Comment #25: Ross Lincoln  on  09/09  at  02:33 PM

It’s not that *I’m* going to vote Republican.  That will never happen.  But I’m not the person who decides elections.  Those folks they call “swing voters” do.  As do the people who vote sporadically.  And if the Democrats make their lives more miserable with a giant insurance company giveaway directly from their pockets, they will hand the election to Republicans by either voting for them or staying home.

That’s politics 101.

Comment #26: Amanda Marcotte  on  09/09  at  02:42 PM

I keep wondering how they would enforce such a mandate, and what the penalties would be. 

Baucus plan suggests a $3,800 annual fine.  That would render a number of families homeless.

Comment #27: Amanda Marcotte  on  09/09  at  02:45 PM

Or, perhaps put more simply: if your congressman is a Democrat, and he doesn’t support the public option, are you going to vote for his Republican opponent in 2010?

No, we are going to organize and fund a primary campaign against him or her, and then that Blue Dog will be forced to expend a lot of campaign money fighting off a primary challenger.  Should they be able to survive the primary challenge, they’ll be so bloodied and bruised that they’ll easily be picked off by a Republican opponent inthe genral, because their Congressional District is not a diehard hippie land of ultra liberalism.

Wingnuts amuse themselves at the possibility of harming staunch liberals over this whole process, but that isn’t gonna happen, regardless of the ultimate outcome.  Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi will absolutely hold onto their seats in 2010, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.

The Blue Dogs are the ones who should be fearful… they represent constituencies that are no further left than the political center, and often lean a bit to the political right.  If they destroy healthcare reform by their obstruction, progressives will destroy them with a brutal primary battle.  And even if they survive the primary battle, they’ll be toast in the general facing a well-rested and well-funded Republican opponent.  Because if the Blue Dog is one of the two names on the ballot in November 2010, we won’t vote for the Republican.  We probably just won’t vote at all.

Yes, these Blue Dog Congresscritters really aren’t very bright.

Comment #28: DTG in STL  on  09/09  at  02:59 PM

“Serious question: if you were really right, that voting against this one will hurt the re-electability of congressmen, why aren’t they falling over each other to support some form of the public option?  These aren’t stupid people; they have already won elections, and know what it takes.”

Well, there’s some assumptions in that paragraph, aren’t there?

Insurance company cash > what constituents think, in general.

There might be house districts where a Democrat could get punished for voting for a public option and maybe this guy is in one, but overall?

A healthcare bill that just adds a requirement to buy insurance, with dubious promises of cost containment, is political suicide. It’s way easier to run against than OMG socialism!!!111!!!, especially if the public option is called something like Medicare II:Even better! The opposition is coalescing against a public option, not because of capitalist purity (there isn’t any among corporations) but because the agree with the left that it would be huge brake on the cost of health insurance to the public.

Comment #29: witless chum  on  09/09  at  03:04 PM

It’s more like an argument that any industry in a capitalist system should not have to compete with a government (read taxpayer) subsidized entity.  That argument has some appeal.

Sure, if you are such a callously cynical fuck that you view living and dying from horrible diseases as a market-based industry.

Auto manufacturing is an industry.
Vacation travel is an industry.
Software is an industry.
Retail clothing is an industry.

A system that directly influences whether or not people live or die because of mechanical problems with their human bodies is NOT A FUCKING INDUSTRY.

Comment #30: DTG in STL  on  09/09  at  03:05 PM

“A system that directly influences whether or not people live or die because of mechanical problems with their human bodies is NOT A FUCKING INDUSTRY.”

This.

Comment #31: Ross Lincoln  on  09/09  at  03:07 PM

It should be about Nationalized Health Care, full stop, because the only way we’re going to get ANYTHING is if we argue the extreme.  Then the “compromise” will be the public option.

You know, when this whole debate began, I wasn’t one of the folks who screamed “single-payer or nothing!” and I kinda thought those folks were going off the deep end.  To me, the public option seemed like a pretty good idea that was at least capable of getting passed.  It wasn’t that I was opposed to single-payer - I thought then, and I still think today, that single-payer would be the best possible outcome.  But I just figured that single-payer never had a prayer, so why waste time pursuing it?

And I still think that there is no chance of single-payer happening anytime soon (though I do believe that eventually it will happen out of necessity, though perhaps not for another 10-20 years or so), but the argument that we should have began there now makes complete sense to me.

Because the thing is, while many of us believe that the current Congressional environment just isn’t ideal to get single-payer passed right now, if we had the leadership of the Congressional Democrats using single-payer as the starting point for negotiation, we wouldn’t be worrying about the possibility that the bill wouldn’t contain a robust public option at all, we would be worrying about the possibility of having to “settle” for a robust public option.

Comment #32: DTG in STL  on  09/09  at  03:21 PM

I keep wondering how they would enforce such a mandate, and what the penalties would be.

Wonder no more…

The Senate Finance Committee proposal, the Baucus Plan, which offers neither a public option nor even a “trigger” for a public option, will impose a $3,800 fine on any family of 4 with an annual household income of $66,000 or more every year that they refuse to purchase for-profit private health insurance.

They are paving the path for massive civil unrest here with proposals like that.

Yes, doing nothing at all, while certainly a horrid option, is better than this God-awful proposal on Max Baucus’ desk.

If the Democrats completely fuck this up, as I fear they will, I think there’s a decent chance that we’ll be saying the words “Speaker Boehner” in January 2011 and “President Romney” in January 2013.

Comment #33: DTG in STL  on  09/09  at  03:33 PM

No, we are going to organize and fund a primary campaign against him or her, and then that Blue Dog will be forced to expend a lot of campaign money fighting off a primary challenger.  Should they be able to survive the primary challenge, they’ll be so bloodied and bruised that they’ll easily be picked off by a Republican opponent inthe genral, because their Congressional District is not a diehard hippie land of ultra liberalism.

If the Blue Dog survives the primary, why not vote for the Republican? Unless you think your state is a swinger that might tip the balance (and thus be nationally important), is there any difference between a “Democrat” who acts like a Republican and an actual Republican?  And if there’s a clear penalty in both the primary and the actual election, perhaps they might pay more notice.

Comment #34: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  09/09  at  05:13 PM

Social Security was a patchwork, designed-by-committee clusterfuck in its original form, too. Just saying.

Comment #35: Ben D.  on  09/09  at  07:35 PM

If the Blue Dog survives the primary, why not vote for the Republican? Unless you think your state is a swinger that might tip the balance (and thus be nationally important), is there any difference between a “Democrat” who acts like a Republican and an actual Republican?

They really don’t act just like a Republican, except with some oddball exceptions in the House (where it doesn’t matter as much as the Senate).

Example: Evan Bayh is probably the prototypical centrist to conservative Democrat, disliked by liberals and hated by progressives in the Party, but he still votes the party line 72% of the time according to The New Yorker. We just notice it more when he does vote like a Republican, because it’s irritating.

(See here for the Bayh cite: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/stevecoll/2009/09/the-maine-point.html)

Bayh is 1000% better than, say, having Mike Pence in that seat. How often do you think Mike Pence would vote with us? Try “never”.

Comment #36: Ben D.  on  09/09  at  07:39 PM

Comment #12: MiddleageLiberal on 09/09 at 11:35 AM

It’s more like an argument that any industry in a capitalist system should not have to compete with a government (read taxpayer) subsidized entity.  That argument has some appeal.

The post office hasn’t put Fedex or UPS out of business.

If something like 80% of people like their health care coverage, it’s a bit silly too say that voting against a big overhaul of the system is political suicide.

80% of people don’t really need their health care coverage, because 20% of people account for 80% of the health costs.  The problem is that anybody from that healthier 80% who is unlucky enough to move into the unhealthy 20% next year can easily find that the insurance they paid for years suddenly isn’t worth a damn.  So whether they’re happy with it is irrelevant—they’re getting ripped off.

Insisting that the public option must be part of the bill or nothing should be done at all is in my view another example of the left insisting on ideological purity to the detriment of getting any progress.

No, it is insisting that the solution to our health care problems has to actually have a mechanism for driving health care costs down.  Otherwise, you’re not making any progress, you’re just giving an excuse for insurance companies to jack up prices higher (because of measures like forbidding preexisting condition discrimination) and forcing everybody to pay the higher prices that the insures dictate.

Basically, the insurance mandate makes no sense at all without public healthcare subsidies, and the public option helps to ensure that we’re subsidizing customers’ health insurance instead of insurers’ profits.

Comment #37: sacundim  on  09/09  at  08:19 PM

The post office hasn’t put Fedex or UPS out of business.

Nor has the University of Massachusettes put Harvard out of business, for that matter.

Comment #38: Ben D.  on  09/09  at  08:21 PM

Dana (10):

Rep. Mike Ross (D-AR), who took the lead in July in negotiating changes to House Democrats’ health overhaul bill to make it more palatable to moderates, said Tuesday that, after hearing from his constituents during the congressional recess, he could no longer support a plan with a government provided option.

What else was he going to say, even if he was bought off by the industry? Tat’s like resigning to spend more tme with your family, or going to the hospital for exhaustion.

Antigone (16):

Also, I think it’s time to reconsider third parties.

Approval voting. If everyone fell neatly along a spectrum, it would just return the middlemost candidate every time, but as it is I think approval voting is a lot closer than what we have now to representing the electorate.

But the real solution is to get corporate money out of politics. Third parties will only give the corporations more pols to buy.

Comment #39: Hershele Ostropoler  on  09/09  at  08:23 PM

Also, I think it’s time to reconsider third parties.

Hey, how is October in the year 2000 treating you, anyway?

Comment #40: Ben D.  on  09/09  at  08:32 PM

Eh, Baucus’s $3800 annual fine would be less than half the cost of full-premium group coverage around here. (runs around $650 a month or $7800 per annum for an individual).

I’m not sure why he thinks it’s going to *help* to offer people a choice between an unaffordable fine and no coverage, or unafforable premiums and questionable coverage, but eh, I’m not a politician.

Comment #41: Thena, Sultana of Stale Raisin Bread  on  09/09  at  11:07 PM

I’m not sure why he thinks it’s going to *help* to offer people a choice between an unaffordable fine and no coverage, or unafforable premiums and questionable coverage

Because his plan is not about helping people, it’s about kowtowing to health insurance companies.

Problem:  Wall Street wants to see more profits, but people can’t afford our plans and/or aren’t buying them because they don’t cover..

Solution:  Make it illegal to not buy a plan.

Comment #42: liberalrob  on  09/10  at  01:15 PM
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