What makes you think it’s a short-term freakout? The Republicans are well aware of consequences of demographic trends for their future electoral success. They’re desperate to find ways to disenfranchise as many Hispanic future voters as possible.

At this point racism is just about the only thing that the Republicans have going for them that will let them win elections, powerfully aided by the fact that we have a black Democratic president.  Gay rights is another possibility, but the abortion issue seems to be losing political traction.  Dog knows that they are not going to capture significant numbers of working class votes, which they need to win, solely on their economic policies, which royally screw the working classes.

This is just a “logical” extension of the Real American(TM) line of thinking.  The 1-day old infant of an illegal immigrant is as much a citizen in this country as the old white dude whose ancestors have been in this country for generations.  These people want to do horrible things to fellow citizens, which is the complete opposite of patriotic.  The only way they can pretend to be the most patriotic while still being hateful and racist is to convince themselves that certain citizens simply don’t count.  When Republicans claim that they are more American than liberals, people who live in cities, and many other groups of US-Americans, we shouldn’t be surprised when they go far enough to advocate legally stripping citizenship from fellow citizens.  This is why we (as a country) need to take their hateful rhetoric more seriously.  This is the end result of their hateful thinking.

So even though the majority voted for Obama, supported health care reform, etc., they think that it’s still going against the “will of the people” because they think those people simply shouldn’t count.

Actually that old white dude’s ancestors probably haven’t been here for generations.  And claims of citizenship of more than a few generations ago are sketchy (part of my family may have entered illegally from Cananda 3 generations ago, no one really knows)

I don’t think this is a sincere effort to overturn the 14th amendment, Steve.  It’s basically impossible.  It’s just grand-standing on racism, and they’re presumably hoping people have short memories.

This is essentially what happened in California in the mid 90’s writ large.  After Pete Wilson flogged the anti-immigrant issue, supporting Prop 187 (if memory serves) the Hispanic (and Asian) voters saw the writing on the wall and, as you say, adjusted their votes accordingly.  CA has been full blue since (even w/ the Arnold goofiness), at least as far as party politics are concerned.

The other thing is, it’s not really anti-immigrant feeling. If you ask about the irish kids spending two or five or ten years working construction or bars or whatever, or that nice young eastern european woman who’s cleaning a bunch of houses so cheaply and reliably, or anyone else who’s perceived as white, they’re just trying to get ahead, and sure it would be fine if some way could be found for them to stay. They brighten up the neighborhood.

Yeah, there’s no doubt prejudice is complicated.  One thing I’ve learned about racists is they actually spend a lot of time obsessing over who they hate and why.  Thus, they create these elaborate hierarchies of who counts and who doesn’t.  It’s not just anti-immigrant, it’s anti-specific immigrants.  And while it’s anti-Hispanic, most racists rank Hispanics in terms of class background and skin color on the acceptability scale.  They really put a lot of effort into it; it’s dizzying to think of spending that much time on hate.

I know for a fact my great grandparents on Mom’s side were border hoppers from Canada. They even spoke French. Or is that “Freedom” now? Guess that means I’m not a citizen either.

/steals job from a Real American

Anyway, the “legal” immigration process to this country used to be as follows: Show up and act like you belong. As noted above it still works for English speakers and/or white Europeans.

,The other thing is, it’s not really anti-immigrant feeling. If you ask about the irish kids spending two or five or ten years working construction or bars or whatever, or that nice young eastern european woman who’s cleaning a bunch of houses so cheaply and reliably, or anyone else who’s perceived as white, they’re just trying to get ahead, and sure it would be fine if some way could be found for them to stay. They brighten up the neighborhood.

Yep! I’m a first generation American of Irish heritage, and we used to spend Sunday afternoons at the local Irish club, where the bar was perpetually staffed by young illegal Irish immigrants making their way.

Yeah, there’s no doubt prejudice is complicated.  One thing I’ve learned about racists is they actually spend a lot of time obsessing over who they hate and why.  Thus, they create these elaborate hierarchies of who counts and who doesn’t.

Along these lines, there was a story in our paper a couple years back about how the extra-strict enforcement of housing ordinances and how many unrelated people could live in one place was affecting a lot of Asian, primarily Indian, immigrants, and all that they were doing for the area.  The whole tone of the article was that people were trying to hurt Latinos, which was fine, but didn’t they think about the other immigrants, who were good?  It was one of the most bizarre things I’ve ever read.

Yeah, my family on my paternal grandmother’s side has only been here since the mid-19th century.  My uncle claims he’s traced my paternal grandfather’s side back to the Virginia Colony, but hey, that’s still illegal immigration by today’s standards.  Drop in by boat, build a house, and say it’s your land now, regardless of whether people are currently living there.

As others above have said, the hated immigrant group du jour is arbitrary.  At one point the Irish and Italians were the big scary job stealing monsters.  It’s all a way to keep those at the bottom squabbling amongst themselves so we aren’t a strong enough force to take on the tiny percent of people who own everything.  Divide and conquer, man.  The Hispanic family down the street is a much easier target than some nameless board who shut down the town’s main source of employment and shipped it off overseas.

I insist on using the term tea bagger because that’s what they originally called themselves and it’s such a perfect illustration of how fundamentally deluded they are, but Tea Cracker is pretty good.  I might use that one too.

I was honestly expecting Rubio to play the “Cuba is different from all the other Hispanic countries cause of Castro” card.  Even if he didn’t say it, he was probably thinking it.  Republicans have found one non-white group they don’t hate in the Cuban vote.

Not as much any more, Albert.  The Cuban-American population in Florida isn’t reliably stalwart anti-communists anymore.  Since communism isn’t a real threat, that’s passing away as a major issue.  Now immigration from Cuba is resembling immigration from basically everywhere—-less a matter of political disagreement, and more a matter economics.  Which means more liberal in general, therefore less useful to Republicans.

“After Pete Wilson flogged the anti-immigrant issue, supporting Prop 187 (if memory serves) the Hispanic (and Asian) voters saw the writing on the wall and, as you say, adjusted their votes accordingly.  CA has been full blue since (even w/ the Arnold goofiness), at least as far as party politics are concerned.”

True, Pete Wilson rode the anti-Hispanic racism train to his doom.  And Prop 187 was thrown out too.

The problem is the Republicans simply went to Plan B: If you can’t be the majority party so you can stick it to the rest of us, then you can make sure that government becomes completely broken so that budgets are never balanced, government functions are eliminated or reduced, and government is perceived as only a problem and never the solution.

What we have here in California is a small version of exactly what the Republicans at the federal level want to do to to all of us.  They figure a scorched-earth policy will benefit them in the end, and screw the country in the mean time.

Republicans benefit from anarchy (uncertainty), fear, and hate.  So it’s all anarchy, fear, and hate all the time…

Yep! I’m a first generation American of Irish heritage, and we used to spend Sunday afternoons at the local Irish club, where the bar was perpetually staffed by young illegal Irish immigrants making their way.

Up until the mid-90s, the majority of illegal immigrants were from Ireland and Eastern Europe, especially Poland.  Somehow, it was never really much of an issue then.

Wouldn’t the argument against birthright citizenship, taken to its logical conclusion, strip just about everyone of their citizenship who isn’t Native American?

Of course. This reminds me that a lot of Teabaggers are Libertarians who read Starship Troopers, but missed the part where Heinlein discussed how few voting citizens there actually were in his world, due to an unwillingness by most of the population to put in two years of extremely dangerous service to the state. Apparently, the Teabaggers consider being a white male Christian with a private sector job the equivalent of fighting giant bugs from outer space.

Slackajawea, point taken, but Article I Section 9 of the constitution prevents an ex post facto law—anyone currently in possession of citizenship cannot have that citizenship revoked as a result of a law being passed.

It’s not that the jellyheads angling for a change in the constitution appreciate this, and probably do think that the law would in fact ship all people of brown skin to mexico no matter the country of their birth. But as Maddow pointed out in the clip, the people suggesting we change the constitution aren’t worried about the jellyheads misinterpreting their intentions because they know they won’t have to make good on the promise, just stoke the fires of racial fear and resentment to get a cushy job with lots of lobbyist money to trough at.

Interestingly, the ex post facto law is pretty much what led to the defeat of Prop 8. I called it back when the law was passed: They couldn’t revoke the marriages of the people who where able to get married before Prop 8 was passed because of the ex post facto thing, but having a set of gay people who were able to have a marriage contract and a bunch of gay people who couldn’t because .... well…. because, ran afoul of equal protection under the law, which is guaranteed by…. (drumroll and flourish) the 14th Amendment.

Service wasn’t limited to fighting the bugs.  Heinlein’s description is more like the Singepore current reality, though I think he was pulling from Israel.

Sure is a good thing there were plenty of aliens to fight. Otherwise you would have needed some other enemy.

Service wasn’t limited to fighting the bugs.  Heinlein’s description is more like the Singepore current reality, though I think he was pulling from Israel

I was using the bugs for comedic effect. IIRC, Heinlein also suggested being a human subject for medical experiments as another possibility for service, although military service was the usual path. The point is, I don’t think most of these Teabaggers would be willing to do any sort of service for the state, but would still expect the franchise.

Sure is a good thing there were plenty of aliens to fight. Otherwise you would have needed some other enemy.

Science fiction is handy that way. In the movie, Paul Verhoeven clarified the point you make using the costume design and propaganda bulletins.

I believe immigration laws shoud be enforced selectively on the basis of race, therefore I’m a racist.

FTFY.

Where were you guys and your “Ihre Papiere, bitte” laws when America was imperiled by the Eastern European and Irish hordes described by DrDick above?

lonnie, you’re just another troll who’s looking for some attention — attention you apparently never got when you were growing up.  Sad, so very sad.

Therapy might help…

Awww….. lonnie sad.

If you are straight, white, and male, please stand up. Congratulations, you are more privileged than you probably ever realized.

A promising start that any straight, white male who has even a tiny spot of self awareness could genuinely agree with. Unfortunately, trailing behind it is a parade of self-pitying straw men.

  The crusade against illegal immigration is interpreted by many Hispanics as a crusade against Hispanics.

Which is a way of saying, “Many Hispanics perceive reality accurately and adjust their votes accordingly.”

Or that they understand what racism is and don’t like it.  It is kind of ironic that the media can’t accept that racism applies to more than just the black and white elements of our society.  We need to tip toe around the word.

Of course. This reminds me that a lot of Teabaggers are Libertarians who read Starship Troopers, but missed the part where Heinlein discussed how few voting citizens there actually were in his world, due to an unwillingness by most of the population to put in two years of extremely dangerous service to the state. Apparently, the Teabaggers consider being a white male Christian with a private sector job the equivalent of fighting giant bugs from outer space.

Heinlein was serious though.  It was satirical or ironic, it was his vision for a world that was better served by people willing to die for it.  The movie makes his main characters more likable, but in the book they’re all centrist/repressive military types who became hardened and by my standards soulless by fighting the bugs.  Heinlein supported this because he had a military fetish that seems to run strong with those who sign up rather than draft.  Which is a side-issue we face as Vietnam vets are aging and Iraq/Afghanistan war vets demand the same respect while they deserve respect for fighting, I don’t think it is classified as draft-level of respect for me.

The republicans and the whole right-wing element of America knows that the future of their party rests on driving the entire white vote into their party as best they can.  There will always be states that they’re able to dominate but by the end of my life they’ll be a regional party with the real fight for president being in the primary of the democrats.  This is really all about disenfranchisement and supporting the white supremacy point of view for victory today at all costs. 

Also without getting out the immigration data I believe the Mexican immigration surpassed other groups in the 1970s not the 1990s it just became a political ploy when the Southwest became a battle ground for republicans and the virulent nature of the Texas republicans’ racism bleed into the party platform.  By the 1990s the majority of the Republican’s were southern and western with few Northeast moderates left.  When the bush-era arrived the northeast moderates were all but cut out.

Heinlein was serious though.  It was [not] satirical or ironic, it was his vision for a world that was better served by people willing to die for it.

Agreed, which is my point—Heinlein would have a lot of contempt for what his entitled Libertarian Teabagger fans take away from the novel. Of course, these are people who can’t grasp the related concept of TANSTAAFL, so he might not be surprised.

After we take away lonnie’s guns and make his children get all gay-married, we’ll take him to a re-education camp so that he’ll truly feel the liberal guilt that’s the inheritance of every straight, white-looking, hetero male in the new Socialist America.

The above sums up the way the Left deals with diversity.

And your struggle against reality.

In his work, at least, Heinlein was perfectly willing to follow his logic where it led. Which often resulted in the protagonist beating up or killing anyone who got in his (yes, his) way, even or especially if they had a perfectly valid reason for being there. But yeah, even Heinlein would have had trouble with someone preaching rugged individualism while pulling down social security disability. (Or maybe not—rugged individualists get disability checks because they deserve them, unlike everybody else.)

Oh, lonnie—didn’t you get the opt-out form mailed to you with your census?

The reason your day is begun every morning with an African American Muslim Homosexual screaming at you for ten full minutes about how you’re the reason the world is so fucked up and you are responsible for all of the ills of everyone not privileged to be be straight and white and male like yourself is because you disregarded your opt-out form. Had you filled it out and sent it back in to the Liberal Basestation, we would have desisted from sending out the GuiltSquad in return for your reassurance that you were actually going to try to make the world a better place for people.

Instead of, you know, trolling this place about how very guilty you feel.

See you at 6:30am tomorrow!

After we take away lonnie’s guns and make his children get all gay-married, we’ll take him to a re-education camp so that he’ll truly feel the liberal guilt that’s the inheritance of every straight, white-looking, hetero male in the new Socialist America.

Is that before of after we introduce sharia law and castrate all males?

Wouldn’t the argument against birthright citizenship, taken to its logical conclusion, strip just about everyone of their citizenship who isn’t Native American?

As amusing as that idea is, no.  The Constitution strictly forbids retroactively applying the law.

In the neighborhood where I lived in the late 80s, my block was nearly all illegal Irish. And quite of few of my neighbors sent their money home to fund various Northern Irish resistance groups, or what some folks would call Terrorists. (We called our nabe’s chief fundraisers ‘Gerry’s kids’, after the leader of Sinn Fein.) Yet, not a peep of political outrage then or since about it.  Mighty white, amirite?

You may not be aware, but implicitly you hate, resent, and distrust everyone who does not look like you.

Now, lonnie, there’s no reason to slur all straight white men because you’re a vicious bigot.  Many of them are perfectly nice.  Of course, they tend to vote for the Democrats.  I’m friendly with plenty of examples.  Hell, I live with one!

A lot of loud-mouthed Tea Crackers are spreading racist myths like it’s gonna get them laid,

There are way more than are mentioned in the article you link.  I suggest going to snopes and searching on “immigrant.”

http://www.snopes.com/info/search/search.asp

Some of my “favorites”:

1. snopes.com: Tax Holidays for Immigrants ••••
Does the U.S. government grant seven-year tax holidays to immigrants?

4. snopes.com: Parkland Memorial Hospital and Illegal Immigrants ••••
Are 70% of the women who give birth at Parkland Hospital illegal immigrants?

11. snopes.com: Arizona Rest Area •••
Photographs show backpacks and clothing discarded at an Arizona rest area used by illegal immigrants.

12. snopes.com: Just One State - Cost of Illegals in Los Angeles •••
E-mail provides statistics about the number and costs of illegal aliens in Los Angeles County.

13. snopes.com: Pell Grants for Non-Citizens •••
Non-citizens don’t pay taxes but are eligible for federal educational assistance programs not available to U.S. citizens?

14. snopes.com: Bank of America Credit Cards for Illegals •••
Is Bank of America offering credit cards to people without Social Security numbers?

16. snopes.com: Shoplifting Drops on May 1 •••
Did shoplifting and other forms of crime decrease dramatically on 1 May 2006?

20. snopes.com: ICE Badges •••
E-mail describes ruse intended to scare away littering Mexican construction workers.

24. snopes.com: Pensioners Should Apply as Refugees •••
The U.S. government provides a much greatly monthly allowance to refugees than to retirees.

...when the country as a whole is becoming more racially diverse and less racist.

The first of these is fairly undeniable; are you sure you could say the same about the second?

In the neighborhood where I lived in the late 80s, my block was nearly all illegal Irish. And quite of few of my neighbors sent their money home to fund various Northern Irish resistance groups, or what some folks would call Terrorists. (We called our nabe’s chief fundraisers ‘Gerry’s kids’, after the leader of Sinn Fein.)

This is all true as other people have mentioned regarding immigrants whose papers might not have been all on the up-and-up: the idea was that you came to the US however you could, made a living for yourself, and figured out a way to stay.

That said, outside of managing twitter’s 140 byte limit, there is no reason whatsoever to use the word “nabe.”

Comment #14: Amanda Marcotte on 08/11 at 11:14 AM

The Cuban-American population in Florida isn’t reliably stalwart anti-communists anymore.

The Orlando Sentinel article that you linked in turn links to a Pew Center publication that points out another important factor: Cubans are becoming a smaller and smaller proportion of the Hispanic electorate in Florida, going from 46% of the eligible Hispanic voters in 1990 to 34% in 2007.

Comment #17: Slackajawea on 08/11 at 11:34 AM

Wouldn’t the argument against birthright citizenship, taken to its logical conclusion, strip just about everyone of their citizenship who isn’t Native American?

Well, of course.  That’s why it needs to be applied selectively through a racial filter.

Comment #30: Xeranar on 08/11 at 12:30 PM

Or that [Hispanics] understand what racism is and don’t like it.

Depends what you mean by “understand”; it’s easy to read too much credit into that.  Hispanics can be, as a general rule, quite blind about racism in their own countries of origin.  We could say that they experience racism first-hand in the USA and conclude (correctly) that Republicans use “immigration” as a code word for anti-Hispanic racism—that the folks who support the Republicans on “immigration” are, for example, that Gainesville waitress who stole your cash payment and called the cops on you because your table was speaking Spanish.  (Yeah, that’s a suspiciously specific example.)

As amusing as that idea is, no.  The Constitution strictly forbids retroactively applying the law.

well, yes, but an Amendment to the Constitution could revise that.  There is no reason that if the baggers wanted a Repeal-the14th-Amendment Amendment, you could not add a line in there saying that the provisions of the amendment specifically are not bound by ex post facto - the entire point of an Amendment being it over-rides the previous provisions, so it would be a non-issue.  Hell, sell it as a way to get rid of those brown people who are already here (with maybe a whiff of invalidating the 13th too),  and baggerdom would push the thing through and party in the streets until the Choctow come to fling their pasty-white Caucasian asses into the Atlantic

<blockquote>Apparently, the Teabaggers consider being a white male Christian with a private sector job the equivalent of fighting giant bugs from outer space.

</i>I always thought they should have listened to Sigourney Weaver and nuked the bugs from orbit. Or was that another movie?

“I always thought they should have listened to Sigourney Weaver and nuked the bugs from orbit. Or was that another movie?”

Well, it is the only way to be sure.  Besides, as Jake Busey said, “Use a nuke, ya got a lot of dead bugs…”

OTOH, Eric Blair/George Orwell would have pointed out that the “bugs” were (probably) a creation of the government in order to justify the continuous warfare needed to prop up the Earth’s economy.  So in some respect, they are us, and the true enemy is the class of string-pullers at the top of the heap who control everyone for their own benefit…

If you are straight, white, and male, please stand up. Congratulations, you are more privileged than you probably ever realized.

Too true, too true.

The rest of your SKREEEE is pretty predictable “Worship my honkey penis! WORSHIP IT!” bulldada, but your first observation is indeed true…

Lonnie—This isn’t even about following the law. This is about CHANGING THE LAW in order to make life more difficult for the children of Hispanic decent. Following the law would mean giving said children equal opportunities and protections to those of other citizens.

And this may be my latent Catholicism, but I think that anyone, regardless of race, gender, etc should spend some time thinking about the advantages they have had that got them to where they are. I know that I am very luck in a lot of ways and make an effort not to take things for granted and think it makes me a better person overall.  Not to toot my own horn…

...their war against masculity and feminity…

You caught us. I confess. We favor hermaphrodity.

Lonnie = 0/10

But Lonnie! Don’t conservatives see Californians as individuals and not a group?!?!

“thier” “masculity” “suseed”... I am not much of a speller myself, but where the hell did you learn English? I think I am going to have to take a look at your papers…

There is going to be a break in the Union. I predict certain states will start to suseed from the U.S. There is too much hate between the left and the right.

You realise that with most Red States, this would mean their taxes would go up?  A whole lot?

lol @ suseed. Is anyone else thinking about God hates protesters too?

there is no reason whatsoever to use the word “nabe.”

Aww. There are several, not the least of which is raising the hackles of wordnerds.

Liberals see people in groups; white, black, latino, women, men, etc. Conservatives see idividuals for the content of their character, not the color of their skin, or race, gender, etc.

Heh.  “This homogenous, monolithic group sees people in groups, whereas my homogenous, monolithic group is able to appreciate individual differences!”

Liberals need to keep minorities dependant on the government, their great society has done more damage than ever imagined. Their no fault divorce, their war against unborn children, their war against masculity and feminity, their support of the porn industry, thier support of legalized drugs. Their war against the family.

No-fault divorce, abortion rights and the lifting of drug prohibition (the latter of which has almost no support among any liberals in government that I know about) are (or, wrt prohibition, would be) the result of *decreased* attention from the state in one’s personal life; only one who wishes to be “dependant on the government” would desire state regulation of these things.  The porn industry is supported by the billions of dollars funneled to it by masturbators across America, which I imagine contains a pretty even distribution of latte-sipping, NYT-readings etc’s, cross-sipping, NASCAR-reading so-and-sos, and guys who not only don’t know who their congressional representative is, but don’t know WHAT a congressional representative is.  I do admit that the war against both masculinity AND femininity is a lot to handle, but the one is a haven for terrorists and the other has WMDs hidden in it somewhere, so I don’t see what other option we have….

You realise that with most Red States, this would mean their taxes would go up?  A whole lot?

You’re asking a lot of lonnie. He probably has trouble with the concept that an Invisible Bearded Sky Man™ is not the cause of the sun coming up in the morning.

After seeing him unload his cavalcade of liberal sins, this is the image he presents:

* “Their no fault divorce” (translation: lonnie’s stuck in a loveless and sexless marriage ...)

* “their war against unborn children” (translation: the wedding was shotgun, because he knocked up his future wife proving his manliness)

* “their war against masculity and feminity” (translation: he had to prove his manliness because even back then he couldn’t get thoughts of one man putting his “pee-pee” up another man’s “poo-poo” out of his muddled head)

* their support of the porn industry (translation: the industry that puts all sorts of sinful thoughts into his head)

* thier support of legalized drugs (translation: if he can’t escape from this hell, why should anyone else?)

* Their war against the family (translation: the miserable version that he’s stuck with)

I’d almost feel sorry for him, except that it’s obvious the root of his problems are religion and a false sense of entitlement. That and his desire to impose his misery on those less “deserving” of joy than he is.

Conservatives see idividuals for the content of their character, not the color of their skin, or race, gender, etc.

Oh, pish. They do not. You’re talking about fantasy conservatives, who pull their own weight and defend their country and don’t ask for handouts and understand basic concepts like logic and arithmetic. Real American conservatives are pants-wetting cowards who overcompensate for this by trying to bully anyone not just as stupid as they are.

And who in their right mind pays for porn?

“their war against unborn children”

How the hell else are we supposed to get that high quality fetus sashimi?

Is it more of a classism thing, i.e., hating/fearing poor people because they might kill you to steal your stuff?

The nature of economic insecurity in the US is such that people are really in dire fear of joining or being associated with the poor. It’s classism in that people are genuinely afraid that they or their children will end up falling into the lower classes, and this manifests itself as hostility towards the poor for fear that the poor will “rub off” on them. It’s a form of class warfare encouraged by those at the top: keep poverty so awful that hostility to the poor prevents programs from helping the poor. For some, this manifests itself basically as soon as people come to the USA—many families will do everything they can not to even give the appearance of being poor and will make efforts to culturally differentiate themselves from those considered “the poor.”

I always thought they should have listened to Sigourney Weaver and nuked the bugs from orbit. Or was that another movie?

Funny quote; When someone informed James Cameron that Paul Veerhoven was making Starship Troopers Cameron asked if he was doing the powered armor. When told that ST would not have the armor suits he replied “I already made that movie”.

* “Their no fault divorce” (translation: lonnie’s stuck in a loveless and sexless marriage ...)

Don’t be a fool - it means that the bitch done left him.

When someone informed James Cameron that Paul Veerhoven was making Starship Troopers Cameron asked if he was doing the powered armor. When told that ST would not have the armor suits he replied “I already made that movie”.

ha, JC for the win.

I >>WISH<< he’d made “Starship Troopers”: Veerhoven is such a friggin’ hack.

The short term anti-immigrant freakout will equal long-term problems

The problem is, we could all grow old waiting for racism to change from an asset to a liability.

I believe immigration laws shoud be enforced, therefore I’m a racist

Do you believe that the 14th amendment should be enforced?

There is going to be a break in the Union. I predict certain states will start to suseed from the U.S.

Dair two dreem, lony. Dair two dreem.

You know, lonnie’s trollery is so sub-par, I have to wonder if we wouldn’t be better off outsourcing our trollery offshore, like maybe India.  Couldn’t be any worse, amirite?...

“Political correctness- gone. Prayer in school- yes…”

...oh, I’m sure that would really make things better…

”...no porn, no abortions, women would have to dress appropritely, jail time for adulterers.”

Sounds like Saudi Arabia right now.  Are you sure you’re not a Mooslim?...

“All media would be cleansed of filth.”

Then what’s the point of living, I ask you…

“Men would be respected again.”

lonnie, I don’t think you will ever be respected, no matter what kind of hellish Gilead you morons set up…

Yes it would go up somewhat maybe, but what we would regain is worth it.  Political correctness- gone. Prayer in school- yes, no porn, no abortions, women would have to dress appropritely, jail time for adulterers. All media would be cleansed of filth. Men would be respected again.

With a government like that you’d need a fence to keep people in, not to keep immigrants out.

And seriously? Women would have to dress “appropriately”? And how exactly are you going to legislate that men be respected? Dude. From troll to loon in one freaky dream of the future.

Don’t be a fool - it means that the bitch done left him.

Thanks for the correction, PiatoR. You’re absolutely right, and it ties together everything else together like The Dude’s rug.

And the queers would be back in jail, and the darkies would know their place, right loonie?

Adultery is actually a crime in quite a few jurisdictions. In Massachusetts, for example, the penalties are prison for up to three years, jail for up to two years, or a $500 fine:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/272-14.htm

Now, I don’t even know the last time it was prosecuted. But about half of the states have adultery statutes on the books. (and, no, Lawrence didn’t touch ‘em.)

Yes it would go up somewhat maybe, but what we would regain is worth it.

If you wanted to build, maintain and staff a 2000-mile long impregnable fence, your taxes to go up more than “somewhat maybe.” But really, who needs a fence when you’re living in a paradise like this:

Political correctness- gone. Prayer in school- yes, no porn, no abortions, women would have to dress appropritely, jail time for adulterers. All media would be cleansed of filth. Men would be respected again.

As a bonus, you’ll also enjoy the economic powerhouse status of similar countries, like Yemen and Afghanistan. Trust me, you won’t need a wall to keep people out.

I am constantly amazed how conservatives claim shit like

Conservatives see idividuals(sic) for the content of their character, not the color of their skin, or race, gender, etc.

or, put even more ludicrously by Michael Steele,

Recent statements claiming the Tea Party movement is racist are not only destructive, they are not true. Tea Party activists are your mom or dad, your local grocer, banker, hairdresser or doctor.

The first assumes we don’t know any conservatives and the second assumes that we do know them, but never listen to them speak.  Yeah, my mom is a Tea Party activist/conservative.  That is why I think the Tea Party and conservative movements are fucking racist.  My mother refers to the Hispanic/Latino federal government employees she works with as “illegals,” and the African-American woman as “the black girl.”  Hell yeah she’s a fucking racist.  The fact that the Tea/Republican party agrees with her on practically everything is the reason that I know the lot of them are fucking racists, who can’t even conceive of the fact that races comprise individuals of varying characters.

Liberals see people in groups; white, black, latino, women, men, etc. Conservatives see idividuals for the content of their character, not the color of their skin, or race, gender, etc.

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!  ROFL!  Lonnie made a funny!

No kidding.  the conservatives in my office are *obsessed* with “race, gender, etc.”—the blacks they think are shiftless and lazy and stealing their tax money, the hispanics they think are stealing their jobs, the women they think are only good for spreading their legs, the gays whose orientation they think is contagious somehow, the jews they think are controlling the media and corrupting the children…

They think anyone who doesn’t look or live exactly like them—really, anyone who *isn’t* them—is by definition ‘assaulting’ them.  And of course, that justifies assaulting back…

  Don’t be a fool - it means that the bitch done left him.

Thanks for the correction, PiatoR. You’re absolutely right, and it ties together everything else together like The Dude’s rug.

As a rule of thumb, if anyone is ranting about “no fault divorce” on the Internet, it means the bitch done left him. 

In theory, I suppose it could mean that the prick done left her - but I’ve never ever seen that.

In his work, at least, Heinlein was perfectly willing to follow his logic where it led. Which often resulted in the protagonist beating up or killing anyone who got in his (yes, his) way, even or especially if they had a perfectly valid reason for being there. But yeah, even Heinlein would have had trouble with someone preaching rugged individualism while pulling down social security disability. (Or maybe not—rugged individualists get disability checks because they deserve them, unlike everybody else.)

If you were outside of the military the implication is you lived in a weird state of authoritarian socialism.  Nobody was left out in the cold in his world, but if you wanted the power to rule you needed to join the military and survive.  You also didn’t live as cushy as “citizens” but your life was no less hospitable than the average American in his day..well maybe slightly less.  He barely touched on non-citizens.  Also, thank you for catching my grammar err, I feel so stupid having forgot to put an “Not” in there. 

Depends what you mean by “understand”; it’s easy to read too much credit into that.  Hispanics can be, as a general rule, quite blind about racism in their own countries of origin.  We could say that they experience racism first-hand in the USA and conclude (correctly) that Republicans use “immigration” as a code word for anti-Hispanic racism—that the folks who support the Republicans on “immigration” are, for example, that Gainesville waitress who stole your cash payment and called the cops on you because your table was speaking Spanish.  (Yeah, that’s a suspiciously specific example.)

I really wasn’t shooting for an explanation of Central/South American racism between those people who are more Native/Proto-Asian and those who are more Spanish/Portuguese/Italian.  If anything most of our racism in the US is leveled at the more Native/Proto-Asian group as well while Spanish-descendants largely walk around unfettered (i.e. Marc Rubio).  I was more or less pointing out the natural media tendency to use the term “illegal immigration” to mean hispanic people crossing our borders not European or Canadians (who actually are a substantial problem in the northern border region).

Sadly shortly after the original comment was put up our current in house troll is acting up again.  I personally would love to see a succession attempt by the red states.  It would be a swift and painful retribution from the organized federal government as the stationed national guard walk into the capitol, arrest the rogue government, and restore order.  All in time for the 6 o’clock news.  If you want a repressive society move to Saudia Arabia.  You’ll really enjoy the repression they have there, I am sure.

The secret of the non-racist conservative is that they make exceptions. My mother is capable (in the same conversation, practically in the same sentence) of complaining about the number of black nurses at the hospital where she was staying, and commenting that the best, most caring nurse she had was a black woman.

See, she can’t be racist, because she acknowledged how wonderful the one nurse was. The fact that she was knee-jerk hostile to all the others unless and until they had proved themselves was just because you know how those people are.

Just FOAD, cracker.

Lonnie, you get back here and defend your cause from know nothing (nice reference, btw). If you weren’t so stupid this would be an extraordinary troll fight. now go!

What makes you think it’s a short-term freakout? The Republicans are well aware of consequences of demographic trends for their future electoral success. They’re desperate to find ways to disenfranchise as many Hispanic future voters as possible.

I never imagined saying this, but on the issue of immigration and the Hispanic vote, the GOP was much better off when the Bush White House was guiding the policy debate.  While I certainly don’t think Karl Rove’s approach was particularly benevolent to Hispanics, it had a convincing veneer of benevolence when compared to the hateful policy positions of the Tancredo brigade, and Rove’s approach did produce dividends, as Bush was able to win a decent chunk of the Hispanic vote.  I’m not sure of the full story behind it, but I believe Karl Rove persnally banished Tom Tancredo from the White House, as Rove recognized how toxic Tancredo’s philosophy would be to the GOP’s future in an increasingly diverse America.

Rove is the turdblossom, but he was right to acknowledge the fact that the Hispanic vote would need to be courted even more for future GOP campaigns.  He is well aware of the fact that writing them off entirely will seriously harm the GOP’s future viability, and despite whatever demeanor he is displaying publicly on the matter, I imagine some of the rhetoric is probably driving him insane.  And no, I don’t believe Rove has any heartfelt concern for the dignity of Hispanic voters, but he’s smart enough to recognize that the GOP could really screw itself in the longterm if they alienate Hispanics too much.

You know, I take it as a favorable sign that some reality is seeping into the reichwing.  In 2000, we knew that a substantial proportion of our 0-5 year old children were nonwhite.  Those kids will hit voting age between 2012 and 2017.

They are ten years late, but they are still at least reacting to reality, even if they aren’t dealing with it very well.

“their war against unborn children”

How the hell else are we supposed to get that high quality fetus sashimi?

I have a friend whose fetus dip is to die for.  We serve it at all our weekly gay sex orgy and American flag burning parties.  Conservatives wish they had as much fun.

Sadly shortly after the original comment was put up our current in house troll is acting up again.  I personally would love to see a succession attempt by the red states.  It would be a swift and painful retribution from the organized federal government as the stationed national guard walk into the capitol, arrest the rogue government, and restore order.

Why?

No you wouldn’t.

Not what would happen.

That statement is racist.

To start the fight over again with a really functional control.  Telling somebody their feelings is both intriguing and quite impossible.  If Lincoln had a national guard established in the south he would have.  If anything Fort Sumner was exactly what would happen but imagine if they had F-14s and Hummers.  the Civil War would have been over very quickly.  As for a remark about Saudia Arabia, meh, perhaps ethnicist.  Saudia Arabia is a nation-state, when it becomes a race you get to call me racist.  Course I forget if you’re a facetious troll or serious.  Either way, I am going to quietly mock you till proven otherwise.

Except everybody knows (or apparently not, I guess) that a second civil war wouldn’t be a war between armies like the first one was.  The seceeding states could just leave the Union and force the government to either let them go or militarily occupy them at which point the army could be ground down in a guerilla war.

Well now I remember you as that stupid troll who didn’t remember their history.  Did you simply forget the ensuing occupation that the Union held in the south?  It wouldn’t be that hard to maintain, the remaining states would move in, displace the governments, and simply stand firm on those states for probably little more than a few years.  It would be a quick and efficient end to any skirmish.  A guerrilla war only works if your opponent is thousands of miles away.  Nobody really talks about guerrilla warfare when the opponent is your next door neighbor because it doesn’t work.  The fact that unlike in the original Civil War the south was more uniformly in-control of the positions of power most red states are more purple than they care to admit and any city-center would be hard pressed to resist.  The guerrillas would fight, die, or be tried and found guilty. 

The United States has massive resources to allocate to tracking down guerrillas within its borders and probably has a better handle on home-grown terrorists than it cares to admit simply because due process limits their ability to apprehend and convict.  War criminals don’t get the same privileges.  Course this is all in some obtuse scenario and you’re right, far from realistic.  No state is seriously going to seceded if only for the fact the governor of that state would be tried and executed.  Not worth it over a political stunt. 

Picking at my choice of fighter plane is just hilarious.  I could have said P-51 mustang and it would have been more than the seceding states would control.  This is why the national guard is federalized and usually are not local.  No state has more than perhaps a limited arsenal of whatever their state police or troopers may have in the armory.  I was making a more generalized statement about the capacity for war the US Federal government has that the states do not. 

Hispanic isn’t a race either.

When the US government takes it off the census form or adds “Saudia Arabian” to the race list I will give both of your statements serious thought.  The Supreme Court considers “hispanic” to be a race for reasons of legal racism.  Whether like Indian subcontinent humans they are actually Caucasian is not the matter.  They are perceived as a different race by those who would seek to discriminate and thus get lumped into the racism equation. 

Why in the world am I still typing this nonsense to some obtuse small-minded tool?  Oh because I enjoy slapping him down.  Ah, the joys of the internet.

Awww Xeranar, aren’t you happy you made Know Knowing proud of his e-penis? Someone has to, you know.

Prayer in school- yes, no porn, no abortions, women would have to dress appropritely, jail time for adulterers. All media would be cleansed of filth. Men would be respected again.

You keep forgetting that the big consumers of filthy media, porn, and the like are concentrated in red states.

Picking at my choice of fighter plane is just hilarious.

You forget: just like how 5 year olds go through a stage obsessed with dinosaurs, adolescent boys develop a fixation about the minutia of fighter planes.

There is one way to get around the 14th amendment that absolutely does not involve repeal:  Ignore it.  Basically we pass an anti-birthright citizenship law and dare the SC to overturn it.  They won’t, not this Court.  If they do, however, the court can simply be desolved.

We’ve already explained to you the fact that you don’t understand the legal system. Go back to your hole.

I know nothing = 5/10

The combination of utter stupidity with perfect confidence is pretty funny, I must admit.

I dunno, at least IKN demonstrates a modicum more self-awareness than this gentleman here:

ESCONDIDO, CA—Spurred by an administration he believes to be guilty of numerous transgressions, self-described American patriot Kyle Mortensen, 47, is a vehement defender of ideas he seems to think are enshrined in the U.S. Constitution and principles that brave men have fought and died for solely in his head.
“Our very way of life is under siege,” said Mortensen, whose understanding of the Constitution derives not from a close reading of the document but from talk-show pundits, books by television personalities, and the limitless expanse of his own colorful imagination. “It’s time for true Americans to stand up and protect the values that make us who we are.”

@101

I’m not sure that I can discern much of a difference.

“I >>WISH<< (Cameron) made “Starship Troopers”: Veerhoven is such a friggin’ hack.”

Racist trolls are one thing, but this? How can you not love all the piss-taking that was “Starship Troopers?” He dressed Doogie Hauser, M.D. up in an S.S. uniform, willfully cast bad acting Kens and Barbies as the leads and set Michael Ironside to maximum gruffness. I remember watching it on cable in early in 2002 and finding it completely hilarious with the memory of post-9/11 cable news fresh in my mind. And “Total Recall” stands up to all of Cameron’s non-“Aliens” action movies, though Cameron would certainly win on quantity. Cameron also would be never make something as raw and f’ed up as “Flesh + Bone.”

I agree with witless chum re Starship Troopers.

It’s brilliant, and the way the fascism, while a little alarming at first, eventually sort of feels all snug and comfy really sends a mental chill down your back (unless you’re one of those who take it all at face value).

In many ways the society Veerhoven portrays is exactly the sort of thing our Reichwing desperately wants: loads of pointless machismo and militarism, an existential crisis involving a (literally) inhuman enemy that can be demonized without repercussions and can be used for ever more militarism, a rigid and non-democratic (or marginally democratic) political system with elements of a police state to keep things under control, constant propaganda supplied to the citizenry to keep the fear and hatred levels at a constant simmer, etc.  (Fox could easily become the “Federal Network” portrayed in the film with fewer changes than you might think.)

The two sequels (and I bet many people didn’t know there were any sequels) completely missed the point and fell into the trap of taking themselves seriously.  Starship Troopers isn’t about bugs and soldiers, it’s about a place that just carries our current societal obsessions to the next logical level and uses the bugs as a cardboard enemy to drive the story. 

I know when it came out there was a lot of confusion about the movie, and a lot of people just didn’t get it at all.  Lefties were put off by the militarism, and I think many on the right saw it as Red Dawn with giant insects.  But both sides missed the point.  The whole point of it was to understand what it is like (for a couple hours) to live in a military-dominated fascist society.  And it succeeds.

A classic piece of film-making that makes you think, if you have the good sense to realize what is being mocked instead of celebrated…

I predict certain states will start to suseed from the U.S.

Lonnie Phelps, what would happen if a state decided to “suseed”?

Lets think about this a minute: Texas Suseeds.  Okay.  The feds remove all arms and close the bases.  No oil flows, which would hurt TX far more that it would hurt the rest of the US, because no money would flow, either.  Next up, no entitlements or nothing coming from us blue states as the Republic decides to implement idealistic non-working policies.  No functional border patrol either, regardless of the number of vigilante volunteers that show up, because the result would be leaderless, uncoordinated, and driven by hunch rather than reality or factual information.

Why do red states act like little spoiled brats who know everything and demand their allowances be paid on time without fail?

Here’s Olbermann’s WTF moment on the same subject as Ms Kate.