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Next entry: The Awesome And Terrible Democrat Machine Of America Speaks Previous entry: Don’t let them win

The staffing concerns of the playground for the rich

ChoadsEconomyElitism

You know, it would be nice if intellectually vapid who got their jobs because their editors had a moron quota to fill would recognize their incredible luck and react with humble gratitude. But of course, if Megan McArdle did that, her job of being the Marie Antoinette of the Atlantic would probably disapper. After all, there are a number of other featherheads who have never spent a day wanting in thei life willing to pen broadsides against the poor for having the nerve to demand bread when there's so much cake to eat. 

As you're aware, there are many who loathe Mayor Bloomberg because they---we---suspect he's trying to turn New York into a playground for rich people, and the rest of us can go hang. McArdle gives up the ghost by straight up claiming that New York City---with all 8 million residents!---should really be seen as a very large gated golf community that is reserved solely for millionaires, and anyone who complains about that should go move to a trailer park in Oklahoma and live off killing squirrels. If you think this is an exaggeration, check out her claim that life in New York is and should be a luxury item, like a yacht. (Via Roy.)

Many New Yorkers believe that they should be given some sort of income tax abatement because of the expense of living there (with the lost revenue being made up from "really rich" people, natch).  Slightly less affluent New Yorkers frequently believe that landlords should be forced to offer them "reasonably sized" apartments at a modest fraction of their income, because after all, otherwise they couldn't afford to live in New York.....

There's a sort of irritating supposition in all of this that living in New York (or San Francisco, or Boston) is something that just happens to you, like getting cholera.  And that therefore high incomes, expensive real estate, and so forth, somehow don't count for the purposes of assessing how well off you are relative to the rest of society.  In fact, perhaps society should get busy making it up to you for all the hardships.....

Living in a blue state is a choice.  If coming to New York meant that you had to put four people in a three bedroom apartment that's uncomfortably far from a subway line, instead of buying a nice little condo in Omaha, this does not mean that you are not "really" better off than your counterpart in Omaha; it means that you have chosen to consume your extra wealth in the form of "living in New York" rather than in the form of spacious real estate, cheap groceries, and an easy commute.

Let's count the assumptions:

1) That the entire city moved here to participate in the glamor of living in New York City, except perhaps a few trust fund kids born in penthouses in Manhattan. McArdle claims she used to live here, and so I find it surprising that in her entire time here, she never once spoke to a native New Yorker. In fact, that's technically impossible, unless she had a single driver take her solely to the homes of other transplants (where only other transplants were invited), and never entered a restaurant, subway car, bank, or grocery store. My guess is that she spoke to lots and lots of native New Yorkers, but most of them registered to her as the staff of this well-appointed resort she lived in, and not really people per se. So she can simply ignore their existence for the purposes of her Scarlett O'Hara-style rant. The irony here is that McArdle is herself a native New Yorker. Maybe growing up here really honed her skills at not seeing other people who aren't so privileged. 

2) That the exact same jobs available in New York City are available in Omaha, Nebraska. Hell, I'm a writer and can, in theory, write from anywhere. In practice, however, working out of New York or D.C. makes a huge difference for your career. But even the technical ability to work from anywhere is simply not true for everyone, especially not everyone of the people that McArdle considers "people", i.e. the professional class. A lot of people with middle class jobs come here because that's where the jobs are, especially if they're in a field like the arts or politics of some sort---jobs that have a lot of cachet but don't pay rich people salaries. Sure, we can indulge in the increasingly virulent American game of "who do you think you are anyway?", but the fact of the matter is that these people, along with working class people, are required to make New York a pleasant place for rich people to live. Without them pumping life into the culture of the city, you, a rich person, may as well move to a golf course gated community. Which brings me to the next assumption she makes. 

3) That New York City doesn't need the working or professional class to be what it is. The reason rich people flock here is because of the amenities and the culture, which non-rich people provide. McArdle, who clearly can't perceive you as a human being unless you have granite countertops and space for a large but expensive wine collection, may not notice that. Perhaps she thinks those rock shows perform themselves, those paintings are conjured by magic in the air, those shop girls helping you buy nice clothes are just fancy robots, those ever-interesting restaurants have ghosts preparing and serving the food, and those cabs and subway cars work by automation. But they don't. Rich people even require the rest of us to be hanging around the streets to add color to their exciting New York lifestyles. Again, without the rest of us, there's no reason to live here. McArdle snootily suggests that people should pay a premium for living in such an interesting city! Too bad she doesn't think that rule applies to the rich. Since they benefit from living here, they should also pay their fair share. 

I'm not surprised when McArdle snots about how she's glad she moved away from here. I'm sure that D.C., where there's more space to push the working class to the margins so the McArdles of the world don't have to rub shoulders with them, is much more her speed. Reading her piece (and Bloomberg's fucked up petulant claims that the poor brought this financial disaster on the country, and not the rich bankers) had the opposite of its intended effect; she sold me on the idea that we should levy a tax on millionaires and spend it solely on subsidized housing for the poor, with an aim towards driving down the rents on everyone else. I loved Roy's take so much that I just want to quote a chunk of it here:

She's not limiting herself to the simple point that some things are expensive and if you don't have the money you can't have it. She's talking about the desire to live in New York -- not just to move there, but to keep living there if you'd been there a while without getting rich -- as if it were the desire to live on Park Avenue -- no, better, to live in a fairy palace on a cloud, in fact, a palace and a cloud you wished to steal from your betters. It's not just that you can't afford New York -- it's that you're insolent to even think you should be tolerated there. You just don't deserve it.

Never underestimate how much not having to endure shared breathing space with those they perceive as beneath them motivates conservatives, especially of the "libertarian" stripe. It was the basic urge underpinning the outrage over health care reform---much of the propaganda about it basically centered around the argument that precious you may have to share waiting rooms with them. That you may even be examined on the same tables. It's unsurprising that this naked loathing for the not-so-privileged is coming out in waves as a reaction to Occupy Wall St. So let's take a moment and be thankful the weather is nice this week, giving the protesters a little boost to keep on not moving. The longer the stay, the more petulant the wingnutty tantrums like McArdle's and Bloomberg's get, and the more the rest of us can see them for who they really are. 

I'll add that McArdle was laying down this foot-stomping as part of her insinuations that the Occupy Wall St. protesters who can afford NYC housing prices have no business being down there. Which, of course, demonstrates the conservative deliberate misunderstanding of the whole thing; they keep insisting that it's a pity party thrown by the poor for themselves instead of a targeted protest of a corrupt economic system. I thought this post neatly dismantles the claim that you can't speak up against horrible wrongs unless you yourself are on the verge of starving to death:

If you believe that your betters are tilting the playing field not through luck, not through accident, not merely through hard work, but through the greasing of palms and the escaping of the same rules that apply to you—then I think it's fine and appropriate to speak up. 

This is a similar logic to those who suggest (say) American women shouldn't complain about disparities in the United States because, hey, Afghanistan! Burkhas!  It's a logic that allows the people at the top to deflect the complaints (merited or not) of people in the middle and even people near the bottom—in in deflecting, serves those people at the top quite well.

And just to make the whole situation more irritating, McArdle issues a disingenuous denial of what she's doing:

So yes, the people at those protests--at least the ones who get arrested--really are, on average, unusually affluent.  (Or at least, their parents are).  Whether that matters is a different question I won't opine on.

Oh nonsense. You just dropped a bazillion petulant, spoiled words whining about how only the rich can and should be able to live in New York. If you really weren't offering an opinion about the right to protest the corrupt system, here's an idea: why not avoid offering an opinion by not offering an opinion?

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 08:06 AM • (76) Comments

Having only visited New York once and spending most of the time in Manhattan, that’s what she’s thinking, right?  That only Manhattan exists?  My non-Manhattan perceptions are all from movies actually filmed in other places.  I’m guessing she doesn’t count Queens, or Harlem, or whatever.

Comment #1: ganews_  on  11/08  at  09:27 AM

I love that four people in a three bedroom apartment is what she thinks of as uncomfortably tight quarters. How about two people in an apartment approximately the size of a suburb house’s hallway, with a kitchen so small I walked through it three times before I even noticed it existed? Filled with someone else’s boxed stuff because it was a sublet?

She really is forgetting that without all the people, NYC isn’t New York, isn’t she? Also that a living wage job should mean that you can live where the job is. It makes exactly no sense for a job in NYC to pay a living wage for Ursa, IA.

Comment #2: Tapetum  on  11/08  at  09:33 AM

You’re right about McArdle, but you can really need to rethink your little cheapshot at DC, where we have lots and lots of not well off people who are pretty sick of being crapped on by the rest of the country (while being taxed without representation I might add).

And don’t give me any “that’s not what I meant”.  It’s perfectly clear that you meant you think DC can create a little sealed bubble for yuppies and New York can’t, but you apparently don’t care to know whether that’s actually how things are happening or not.  (Hint: if it were, Yglesias wouldn’t have got that little street beatdown on his way home from McArdle’s place.)

The poor and struggling folks in the District are probably not benefiting from McArdle having moved into their neighborhood, but they really arent going to benefit from cheapshots from recent transplants to other cities, either.

Comment #3: neff  on  11/08  at  09:50 AM

We had awesome poor people in the old days.  They were skinny, and would clean your whole house without looking you in the eye once.  When they put up the barricades, it was because they were actually starving.  There used to be some honor in poverty.  Now it’s just whine, whine, whine.

Comment #4: dopus dei  on  11/08  at  09:51 AM

Though I’m sure you could find a condo there if you looked very hard, “condo in Omaha” has a “salad bar at Applebees” sound to it.

Comment #5: Ben Alpers  on  11/08  at  09:58 AM

It’s just really tough for someone who tries to work on social justice issues in DC to take glib remarks like that from a liberal when we already are perpetually endangered by the dismissive assholism toward “Washington” from the entire population of the red states.  Surely you can see how that grates (do you know anything about our local political issues? There’s a reason Marion Barry still has a strong constituency and our previous mayor got ditched in the primary.)

After all, Roy makes perfectly clear in his post that you linked that New York has been doing a pretty good job of further marginalizing its marginalized.

Comment #6: neff  on  11/08  at  10:02 AM

Well, I think the point is that DC is more suburbanized, in that the rich can live in Fairfax or wherever and the poor can live in Baltimore or wherever and the two don’t have to be as intertwined as they are in New York.

(Note. I’ve never actually been IN New York, outside of the train station)

Comment #7: Karmakin  on  11/08  at  10:38 AM

Four people in a 3 bedroom Manhattan apartment really does sound miserable and tight. Remember, a lot of bedrooms here are so small you have to shove the bed in a spot where only one side isn’t touching a wall. If that.

Comment #8: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/08  at  10:40 AM

neff, that’s exactly what the well-off are trying to do to D.C. I’m unclear what your complaint is. I didn’t say I approved. I don’t.

Comment #9: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/08  at  10:41 AM

neff, rereading your comments, I have to say I still don’t get it. I’m really, really, really unclear on where you think I expressed approval for marginalizing people in New York or D.C., which I agree is happening in both places. And I say so in the post.  I just said that it’s a harder job to pull off in New York than D.C., because D.C. is more spread out and so there’s more places to push working class people off to. Which you yourself claim is the problem I’m ignoring.

Here’s a thought: you’re so defensive you didn’t actually read what I said and instead just started to lash out because of your preconceptions about what New York residents think of D.C. Please don’t attack straw-Amanda. It gives me a sad.

Comment #10: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/08  at  10:45 AM

@ neff

It’s perfectly clear that you meant you think DC can create a little sealed bubble for yuppies and New York can’t, but you apparently don’t care to know whether that’s actually how things are happening or not.

I lived in DC in 2000 and again in 2008.  In 2000 I lived on Logan Circle.  By the time I returned in 2008 the whole area had completely transformed and radically up-scaled.  And the exact same thing happened to the U-street corridor, and Adams Morgan.  To my mind, it is the people of DC who think they can create a little yuppie bubble in the NW quadrant, leaving everyone else to stew in NE and SE.  And let’s be honest here: they have been quite successful over the last dacade.

But watch out!  Someone figured out that Anacostia is sitting on the Anacostia river, so we are talking riverwalk coming soon!  Meanwhile the residents of SE will increasingly find themselves being pushed into Prince George county.

Then again, New York City is doing the exact same thing - creating a series of little yuppie bubbles across Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens - and squeezing everyone else further and further out.  I can’t even dream about affording my old East Village apartment anymore.

Comment #11: Richard Goblin  on  11/08  at  10:45 AM

Which again, I never claimed wasn’t true, in case anyone feels like whipping on a strawman again. I just said that D.C. has an easier go of it.

Comment #12: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/08  at  10:50 AM

@ Amanda

I just said that it’s a harder job to pull off in New York than D.C., because D.C. is more spread out and so there’s more places to push working class people off to.

I disagree, having lived in both places.  DC is pushing people into Maryland and Virginia, not shuffling them around DC. 

New York always had Jersey City to which to push people.  Well, at least until Jersey City became expensive.  And the Bronx is always nearby as well as outer parts of Queens, Brooklyn, and most of Staten Island.

Comment #13: Richard Goblin  on  11/08  at  10:50 AM

Wow, we’re really really really going to quibble over this. Should I just delete the line and erase the temptation to make this entire thread a derail?

Comment #14: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/08  at  11:00 AM

Again, I never said that NYC isn’t pushing people around. Never once. In fact, I denounced it in the post. What I said very specifically was it’s a bit easier not to interact with anyone outside your immediate social circles in D.C. than New York, where the pushed-in aspects of the city create more co-mingling.

Comment #15: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/08  at  11:02 AM

Dear lord, that McArdle piece is vile. (In other news - sun rises in east.)

I grew up in New York, (the Bronx, actually) and can attest that there are lots of non-rich people there making life interesting. I’d love to move back, actually, but have never thought I could afford it without a decent job lined up, and given the state of the economy, that’s unlikely. (I keep an eye out from time to time, however.)

The problem of a living wage being at all decent in New York is huge. Hell, it was a problem in Boston, and I don’t think Boston is nearly as expensive.

Comment #16: LC  on  11/08  at  11:03 AM

I grew up in the Bay Area and at one point, there was a proposal to provide city-housing for teachers. I remember hearing the arguments, mostly between various liberals, that either A. teachers should be paid a living wage to live where they teach or B. this is a good idea because because the real estate market will never allow even decently paid teachers to live where they work. At the time, I took my parents’ position (teachers should be paid enough to live where they work), but now I do see a kind of wisdom in the subsidized housing proposal. Of course, today, there’s no way my family could live even close to the level of comfort (as creative/intellectual class workers—mother, elementary school teacher, father scientist at the National Lab/UC system) we enjoyed back then (aka in a near-suburb house w/ good schools). I say this, fully aware of having lived in there with a high level of privilege. Today, the almost upper-middle class are being squeezed (though certainly not as much as the middle-middle, lower-middle and the poor), but it really is a rich man’s world.

Comment #17: Thealogian  on  11/08  at  11:15 AM

I think ordinary people who live in new york should get some kind of hazard pay for having to deal with the rich jerkwads. (One of the turning points was in the 90s when the city started being perceived as safe again, so that way more rich parents were willing to subsidize kids’ apartments. Since then the banking inudstry and its appendages, well…)

I would give new york about another generation before it implodes, but if all the culture were replaced by animatronics, would the rich people notice?

Comment #18: paul  on  11/08  at  11:33 AM

Boston is nearly as expensive, but the city proper is tiny and has very little residential area.  There are a number of more affordable urban and inner-ring suburbs, as well as some slummy areas where you could probably get a cheap apartment.  There are also ridiculously expensive areas.

That’s true of any city, really, for the reasons Amanda has set out: at some point, you drive away the people who provide the amenities that make the wealthy want to live there.  Likewise, without the money, there aren’t service jobs to keep the poor employed.  That’s why affordable, mixed-income housing development is so important in cities - the closer you can get people’s homes to where they work, the better things are for everyone.

Comment #19: Dave Fried  on  11/08  at  11:37 AM

Wow, we’re really really really going to quibble over this. Should I just delete the line and erase the temptation to make this entire thread a derail?

Nah don’t worry about it.  You went for a little joke at McArdle’s expense and ended up hitting a reader in a sensitive place.  It happens.  smile

That said, McArdle did buy a rowhouse relatively cheaply in a Northeast DC neighborhood that’s still in a rough patch of gentrification (hence the Yglesias beatdown) so her piece could also be seen as one of those sucking-up-to-their-betters things conservatives like to do (what I like to think of as inverse sour grapes).

Comment #20: neff  on  11/08  at  12:01 PM

I read the D.C. point as one of geography more than anything else.  People are missing the greater point for exactly why I don’t get but the anger at unfairness that comes from the recycling of usable land in and around big cities, is understandable but maybe if it sends you into a blind rage and you miss the actual point that in fact addresses the very thing you got all gangsta on in a more insightful way then maybe the latte consumption should drop a notch.  That has been going on forever before there was a New York or a D.C., so lets recognize this attitude for what it is.  Marie Antoinette of the Atlantic, did you miss that?  lol

Comment #21: ewellone  on  11/08  at  12:09 PM

The best solution to this problem is to create affordable housing within gentrifying urban areas, which reduces the negative societal impact of concentrated poverty.  Of course, this is not a market solution and requires regulation so urban-minded McArdle is forced to defend the Paris model: only rich people get to live in the city.

Comment #22: reformed neanderthal  on  11/08  at  12:20 PM

I’m hoping Mikey ends up getting his arse kicked by Charlotte’s ghost.  She raised him better than that!  I doubt he’d have gotten away with that while she was alive - she was politic, but no bullshit.

Comment #23: Ms Kate  on  11/08  at  12:30 PM

Um, Omaha is blue. See, Nebraska has the unique ability to divide up the electoral votes by region. Omaha is blue, being a major city. Lincoln is blue, being a university town. The rest of the state is red. What people in cities also don’t realize is that if you live in Nebraska you get paid Nebraska wages. An apartment may be $500/mo but that’s because a lot of jobs only pay $1500/mo. If someone decided to take McArdle’s advice and move to Nebraska, it’s not like they could transplant their New York salary to Lincoln and live like a king. I actually just moved from Nebraska to DC because I got one of those professional jobs. But since I just fell off the turnip truck I didn’t realize cities were only a playground for the fabulously wealthy. And here I am in the same city as McArdle, polluting her air with my poorness.

Comment #24: Entomologista  on  11/08  at  12:39 PM

Getting cholera isn’t something that just happens to people either, it’s the direct result of eating or drinking something contaminated with shit.

Because people took the time to study and understand cholera, instead of saying, “Yeah, sometimes people suffer and die.  That must be what God wants,” a lot fewer people die from cholera now than 200 years ago.

I’m not sure why the idea that we should do the same thing for other forms of suffering is so beyond the realm of reason for some people, unless they really live in a world completely divorced from cause and effect and believe that everything, including communicable diseases, is caused by magic.

Comment #25: hideandseek  on  11/08  at  01:05 PM

Like Amanda pointed out, I’ve noticed that people who don’t object at all to high housing prices here in CA get all upset and threaten to leave whenever there is talk of raising property taxes.  What’s the difference, really?  But they expect to make money off the sale of their house.  They don’t see any benefit to improving our state’s schools.  That’s what it really comes down to.  I was perfectly fine living in a cramped apartment uptown because it really was waaaaay better than living in the shit suburb I do now, even with added space.  So I don’t totally disagree with Megan, and she’s done everyone a favor by blowing a huge hole in “if you raise my taxes, I will move to Utah!” argument.

Comment #26: Satanicpanic  on  11/08  at  01:10 PM

Great point about conservatives, and the libertarian brand particularly. Like their idol Ayn Rand, they despise us peasants. They love to describe people who teach kids to read, or keep the streets safe, as parasites, living off the “producer” geniuses. Geniuses like the ones that crashed the banking system with fraud and gambling. Like most ideology, it’s a justification for who they are.
McArdle writes for these folks, and no doubt hopes to be one of the elect some day. Hippie punching is way smarter than real work.

” I am laughing at the superior intellect”
Captain Kirk

Comment #27: kmg50  on  11/08  at  01:15 PM

All this is just noise, though.  McArdle thinks New York is a playground.  Amanda disagrees.  But Bloomberg is actively making New York into a playground.  Is there anyone working to stop him, other than Mr. The Rent Is Too Damn High?

I mean, if the living conditions are so unbearable, get a few thousand people together - preferably in one vital but low-paying industry - and convince them to strike.  That’ll shake the system up a bit.  If you can get a large number of establishment people to throw a loud and coordinated shit fit, people will become more amenable to change.

But if you don’t have people actively working to defend their lifestyles, I’m not sure what makes you think Bloomberg won’t get his wish of people living in cabinets and dressers and getting paid in bread crumbs while servicing the lordly denizens of Disney City.  The problem with these big populations is that you can usually find a new guy willing to get paid less to do more work.  Maybe you’ve got to import starving third world children to scurry through the walls of your McMansion making it run smoothly, but if it saves a buck some of these guys will do it.

Comment #28: Zifnab  on  11/08  at  01:41 PM

I haven’t en made it all the way through the original post, barely to the end of the first big block quote actually and I have to comment on a big error if not knowing lie.  Groceries in OKC are not cheaper than in NYC.  Having been to both in closely proximate time, I know this.  And yes, you do have to consider cost of living in deciding parity - living in NYC is kind of required for certain jobs, as is living in Boston, you can’t just choose to live in OK or LA if no one there will hire people with your skills.  (Though IME it is easier to get from an almost affordable area outside Boston than it was outside NYC if you have a job that requires a vehicle.

Comment #29: helen w. h.  on  11/08  at  01:44 PM

Jeezus McArdle is one of the most vile human beings on earth.  I have no idea what conservatives do to remove their capacity for decency.

Comment #30: Punditus Maximus  on  11/08  at  01:46 PM

Why doesn’t she relocate to the boom areas of Alberta or North Dakota, work a job in tar sands, and see just how much housing is available? (hint: there ain’t much).

Comment #31: Ms Kate  on  11/08  at  01:48 PM

I just can’t get past the idea that we all just choose where we live based on aesthetic criteria, rather than where we’re born, where our support systems are, where we can get a job, etc.  Generally, only the very wealthy can just pick their homes without considering whether they can find work there.  And many people move to NYC or some other big city because that’s where the jobs are, and you can’t just up and leave because there aren’t jobs for you in Omaha or Pierre or Iowa City.  If anything gives away the sheer unthinking privilege this woman enjoys, that’s it.

Comment #32: Kit-Kat  on  11/08  at  01:53 PM

I disagree with Megan McCardle about pretty much everything, including her putdown of OWS. But I’m not getting the point of how a a higher wage/subsidies would speficailly improve the real estate shortage in NYC (not that I don’t love progressive redistribution overall). I also don’t see the point of arguing that teachers, or any particular set of individuals for that matter, deserve special housing accommodations that the rest of us don’t. All the smart liberal thinking I’ve seen (Krugman, Yglesias) points that rent control is terrible.
So rather than artbirarily picking and choosing who deserves what apartment, we need to lower the cost by beefing up construction of new homes and increasing density. And a lot of it has to do with overhauling perverse government zoning laws.

Comment #33: ArielNYC  on  11/08  at  02:14 PM

To add to the above, whenever I pass thru Harlem and see empty lots covered in weeds and I want to cry. Every empty lot is dozens of families and individuasl not getting a home.

Comment #34: ArielNYC  on  11/08  at  02:21 PM

@ Zifnab

McArdle thinks New York is a playground.  Amanda disagrees.  But Bloomberg is actively making New York into a playground.  Is there anyone working to stop him, other than Mr. The Rent Is Too Damn High?

This is the point I was trying to make above (although you put it much more eloquently).  Legal Aid and MFY are working against this in New York, and Legal Aid DC (where I used to work) and Neighborhood Legal Services was fighting it in DC.  It has been a losing battle for the last two decades or so however.

As Neff put it above:

That said, McArdle did buy a rowhouse relatively cheaply in a Northeast DC neighborhood that’s still in a rough patch of gentrification

the push to get the poor and working people in the NE quadrant in DC is on.  I saw the same thing happening in the SE quadrant. 

The same is happening the outer parts of the outer boroughs of NYC.  The people with whom I went to law school in NYC and who decided to work at the big firms (at the time a $140k/year job to start) were moving to Bushwick.  Bushwick had already started its “gentrification” back then.  Even Red Hook is gentrifying despite the lack of easy subway access.

Oh and for the bonus round, I predict that once DC is safely majority white it will get representation in Congress.

Comment #35: Richard Goblin  on  11/08  at  02:28 PM

That said, McArdle did buy a rowhouse relatively cheaply in a Northeast DC neighborhood that’s still in a rough patch of gentrification

Please note that said rowhouses in that neighborhood sell for prices in the $500k range renovated and the low $400s if they need to be gutted and renovated. Relatively cheap for NW DC, sure.

Comment #36: Tyro  on  11/08  at  03:02 PM

Amanda’s wrong.

The reality is, the nature of New York City is defined by the value of its property. It’s expensive to live there; ergo, whatever one wants to say about natives, the need for a working class, etc., the people who live there are going to be privileged. You can change the nature of the privilege—rent control, for instance, awards the privilege to people who have lived in apartments for long periods rather than those who can pay the most money—but it’s still a privilege.

And it isn’t just New York City. I have been to Hong Kong, and Hong Kong Island and most of Kowloon are the same way. If you don’t have the privilege, you can live out in the New Territories somewhere and take an hour train ride in. In Latin American cities such as Lima, the privilege defines itself in places like the charming Miraflores district; unless you have foreign money or are a member of the Peruvian upper class, don’t expect to live there. Want to work there? Well, you can take a Combi in from La Victoria.

There’s a couple of things you can say about this:

1. It is possible to make New York City less exclusive. This gets to Matt Yglesias’ point about building codes. You could increase density, build more buildings, etc. And that would lower land and property values and rental costs. But there are entrenched interests in New York City—INCLUDING some Jane Jacobs-type liberals—who HATE this.

2. Income inequality, on a national level, makes the problem worse. Because as Kevin Drum points out, scarce real estate essentially creates a bidding war, and the more money rich people have, the more expensive everything will become. So all those hedge fund billionaires and finance millionaires created by the economic booms in the last 30 years drove the price of New York real estate way, way up. If we did something about income inequality, we could make it easier for the middle class, at least, to get a foothold in New York.

But as it stands now, living in New York City means you are privileged. Either privileged in terms of having a boatload of money, or privileged in terms of being able to gain a foothold in the City not available to others.

Comment #37: Dilan Esper  on  11/08  at  03:30 PM

And just so this isn’t seen as just me mansplaining, here’s Meghan Daum, who has impeccable feminist credentials, writing about the truth of New York City.  This essay won her a lot of awards and acclaim:

http://www.meghandaum.com/by-meghan-daum/22-my-misspent-youth

Comment #38: Dilan Esper  on  11/08  at  03:35 PM

I mean, if the living conditions are so unbearable, get a few thousand people together - preferably in one vital but low-paying industry - and convince them to strike.

FYI, public employees in New York City cannot legally go on strike, because of the Taylor Law. When the TWU struck in 2005, the union was fined $1 million per day, and the workers lost two days’ pay for every day they were out.

Comment #39: Ridnik Chrome  on  11/08  at  03:37 PM

@Dilan Esper

“living in New York City means you are privileged.”

I agree with most of what you said, and I’m happy living in NYC, but I don’t have any reason to think that everyone would feel priviliged living in NYC. City mouse/country mouse and all that. Some people would be happy living in modest quarters with close access to bars, musuems, and various amenities, and some would prefer more space,nature, mountains, peace and quiet, etc. Which is why giving people artifically cheap housing (e.g. rent control) means that you distort preferences. Would teachers be happy with subsidized housing in Manhattan? sure. Would they be even happier getting the equivalent value in hard cash and spending it however they prefer? You betcha.

Comment #40: ArielNYC  on  11/08  at  03:50 PM

It seems to me that once an area gentrifies too much it isn’t cool to live there any more, it’s the Megan mccardles of the world that think every place should be a gated suburban community with good bars and restaurants.

Comment #41: Benny  on  11/08  at  03:55 PM

I agree with most of what you said, and I’m happy living in NYC, but I don’t have any reason to think that everyone would feel priviliged living in NYC.

I agree that not everyone would “feel” privileged living in NYC. But that’s the thing. In my experience, almost nobody ever “feels” privileged. That, indeed, is one of the things that rightly infuriates McArdle (and also infuriates many liberals like Matt Yglesias, by the way)—that people making $250,000 a year and living in New York City with all of its charms and benefits manage to define themselves to themselves as not “privileged”.

I think privilege is objective. And on an objective basis, there’s a huge amount of privilege in living in New York City for just about everyone; if it manifests itself in a rent-subsidized apartment or a business that was handed down from father to son or a taxi medallion, that’s still a privilege. You can point to individuals living in New York who aren’t privileged (the homeless, sex slaves working at massage parlors, etc.), but the general description of McArdle’s post is correct, even among many of the people who don’t “feel” privileged.

Comment #42: Dilan Esper  on  11/08  at  03:56 PM

ArielNYC, when many districts either outright require teachers to live in their district (Boston used to do so) or require outside at work activities, are in a place where commuting is very time consuming and property values are such that a techer can’t afford anything nearby, you are going to have to somehow subsidize your teachers’ housing.  It has long been done for places like isolated schools on NA reservations - Heart Butte, MT when I visited there was literally almost nothing but the school, the post office and the teacher housing.

Comment #43: helen w. h.  on  11/08  at  03:57 PM

Affordable housing isn’t worth a damn unless the people living there are required to work within a certain distance of that housing.  There’s at least one affordable housing complex in London that requires just that, and that’s because jobs are increasingly moving away from urban centers.  San Francisco hasn’t been the center of industry in the Bay Area for at least 30 years.  The only big employers still based in Seattle, and not the suburbs, are Starbucks and Amazon.  Maybe New York is an exception, but, if you build affordable housing in many large cities, many of those residents will want to reverse commute out to the suburbs, because that’s where the jobs are, but they prefer the amenities of urban living.

Comment #44: keshmeshi  on  11/08  at  04:04 PM

But as it stands now, living in New York City means you are privileged. Either privileged in terms of having a boatload of money, or privileged in terms of being able to gain a foothold in the City not available to others.

Lots of people live in NYC’s outer boroughs and are privileged in the sense that they grew up there and understand how to live within what are technically the borders of NYC, but I don’t think you can call them privileged in the Megan McArdle or the Amanda Marcotte sense. They’re just regular people with regular jobs.

Comment #45: Tyro  on  11/08  at  04:12 PM

@Dilan Esper


I get your point about acknowledging privilige. My more precise argument is that not everyone actually wants to live in NYC and cares for what it has to offer and would feel like the tradeoffs are worth it.

“if it manifests itself in a rent-subsidized apartment or a business that was handed down from father to son or a taxi medallion, that’s still a privilege.”

Those are definitely privilieges. But these don’t apply to the great majority of New Yorkers. So it’s not not just the homeless sex slaves that aren’t priviliged in that sense.

Comment #46: ArielNYC  on  11/08  at  04:16 PM

And just so this isn’t seen as just me mansplaining, here’s Meghan Daum, who has impeccable feminist credentials, writing about the truth of New York City.  This essay won her a lot of awards and acclaim:
http://www.meghandaum.com/by-meghan-daum/22-my-misspent-youth

Thanks for sharing that, Dilan. I can relate to Daum’s essay in so many ways right now.

Comment #47: Linnaeus  on  11/08  at  04:17 PM

@Helen

I’m pretty sure that the real estate situation Heart Butte Montana (love the name) is radically different than in NYC. But ultimately if you don’t pay teachers enough to live nearby a school while mandating that they do so, you won’t have any willing teachers.

I’m still of the opinion that we should seek to increase the overall stock of housing for everyon’e benefit rather than arbitrarily picking deserving vs non-deserving individuals.

Comment #48: ArielNYC  on  11/08  at  04:31 PM

Though I’m sure you could find a condo there if you looked very hard, “condo in Omaha” has a “salad bar at Applebees” sound to it.

Thirty seconds of googling brings up a number of condo projects in and around Omaha. To be fair, though, I doubt McArdle did that thirty seconds of googling either.

Comment #49: befuggled  on  11/08  at  05:08 PM

  Dilan at 38: Thats essentially correct. Yglesias’ solutions to the housing problem isn’t really palatable to conservatives or liberals. Conservatives don’t like it because of their devotion to the auto-dependent, strictly zoned, single-family suburbs. Liberals might like Yglesias vision of mixed use, urban neighborhoods but not at the level of density that he believes is approrpriate, which seems to be somewhere between 20,000 to 50,000 people per square miles, and they want achieved in more ordered way than Yglesias does. They have more affinity for historical preservation than Yglesias.

Comment #50: Lee  on  11/08  at  05:31 PM

  ArielNYC: The way to increase housing for everyone’s benefit is either to (1) make it easier to build housing by stop putting so many regulations on what could be built, land use, and density or (2) have the government build housing as it does in Scandanavian countries. Both solutions have advantages and disadvantages. In America, we tried government built housing after WWII and the results were mainly not good. That means that we have to increase the amount of density allowed and decrease restrictions on landuse and gut historical preservation. There are groups both conservative and liberal that oppose these measures. Conservative NIMBYs freak at increased density and mix-used housing. Liberal NIMBYs tend to freak less openly but they freak and invoke historical preservation and other subtle means to decrease housing stock.

Comment #51: Lee  on  11/08  at  05:42 PM

  Dilan at 38: Thats essentially correct. Yglesias’ solutions to the housing problem isn’t really palatable to conservatives or liberals. Conservatives don’t like it because of their devotion to the auto-dependent, strictly zoned, single-family suburbs. Liberals might like Yglesias vision of mixed use, urban neighborhoods but not at the level of density that he believes is approrpriate, which seems to be somewhere between 20,000 to 50,000 people per square miles, and they want achieved in more ordered way than Yglesias does. They have more affinity for historical preservation than Yglesias.

Obviously the conservative position on this is obnoxious, but the problem with the liberal objection to this is that it never acknowledges the privilege and the trade-off.

Basically, if we take the position that we will constrict housing supply below housing demand for aesthetic or historical reasons, that GUARANTEES that there will be a shortage of low cost housing and that the people who get in the door will be privileged over those who don’t.

Now, if someone wants to argue “that’s worth it; the historical and aesthetic issues are so important that they are worth pricing the middle and lower classes out of the housing market or privileging incumbents”, that’s an argument we can have. But in my experience, the Jane Jacobs types never acknowledge the trade-off at all, or even that the people who get to live in those nice walkable scaled down neighborhoods in a megalopolis are, in fact, the recipients of huge amounts of privilege.

I am far from a libertarian who believes in supply and demand uber alles, but where you really do have a strictly constrained supply of something that is extensively demanded, money and privilege will always carry the day in the end. People have a hard time thinking of the places they live in as a scarce economic resource, but it’s actually one of the most clear-cut examples of one.

Comment #52: Dilan Esper  on  11/08  at  05:43 PM

@Lee & Dilan,

Here’s where I get confused though. It’s not like NYC as a whole looks like Greenwich Village. My back-of-the-envelope calculation tells me that something like 60%-70% of NYC could be torn down without any loss of architectural/historical merit. And visiting places like Shanghai where this attitude runs free/amok makes me indulge that fantasy. As well doing away with empty lots and rent control. I do think the vested interests in NYC are holding it back in a way that liberals are reluctant to admit.

Comment #53: ArielNYC  on  11/08  at  06:11 PM

Empty lots don’t have anything to do with rent control - they have to do with an unwillingness or inability by the local government to bring these back to the market.  A landowner with a fence around weeds can take a tax loss on that property and maybe not even pay their property taxes and certainly not do their diligence to maintain the neighborhood.

Like Yglasias says, we need to change the tax structures to discourage this hoarding behavior.  There’s nothing ‘market’ about how prices are, since so little of it is developed and occupied.  There are thousands of empty buildings, lots, apartments and storefronts in even the most expensive city - and these should not exist, if we are to believe the property values are increasing because of use.

Comment #54: Crissa  on  11/08  at  06:30 PM

@Crissa

We agree on the hoarding issue. I wasn’t making a link between that and rent control, but I do think both are terrible.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-03/portugal-crumbles-as-century-old-rent-controls-choke-property-investment.html

Comment #55: ArielNYC  on  11/08  at  06:40 PM

Amanda, you are right about Megan McArdle, but the truth is that to those of us without particular ties to New York the city already is the exclusive playground of the rich that you write about.  I live in the Northeast Corridor and go to New York once every year or two out of a sense of obligation, but as big and small cities in the region reurbanize and offer all the amenities that used to belong exclusively to New York (a walkable streetscape; high-end shopping, theaters, museums, and dining; and a rich ethnic mix), it’s getting hard to justify the expense and inconvenience of spending time in New York.  New York’s advantage over other cities is definitely eroding, and over the years I’ve mostly come to feel mostly pity and bafflement for the people like me who have more taste than money yet choose to fight with a lot of rich jerks over some increasingly slim pickings.  If you have family ties or history in New York it’s understandable that you would choose that struggle, but New York (even Brooklyn) is no longer the beacon of culture and edge that it was, say, twenty years ago.

Comment #56: Flora  on  11/08  at  06:46 PM

Per HUD, an American living anywhere in the country and working full-time should be paying no more than 50 hours’ worth of gross pay a month for housing. Anyplace this isn’t reasonably possible, housing is too expensive. It has nothing to do with whether living there is a choice. Fifty-nine hours a month in rent is too damn high no matter where you live.

hideandseek, 26:

Getting cholera isn’t something that just happens to people either, it’s the direct result of eating or drinking something contaminated with shit.

So if you swallow what McArdle is saying, you risk getting cholera?

Zifnab, 29:

All this is just noise, though.  McArdle thinks New York is a playground.  Amanda disagrees.  But Bloomberg is actively making New York into a playground.

Not as bad as Giuliani, in that regard. Bloomberg just doesn’t know any better.

Comment #57: Hershele Ostropoler  on  11/08  at  07:18 PM

“whenever I pass thru Harlem and see empty lots covered in weeds and I want to cry.”

Not being a NY’er, I’ve never understood how in a place where land is so expensive, there could be vacant lots.

Comment #58: Eric_RoM  on  11/08  at  07:22 PM

she sold me on the idea that we should levy a tax on millionaires and spend it solely on subsidized housing for the poor, with an aim towards driving down the rents on everyone else.

Don’t think this will work.  While I have no objection on taxing the rich if you try to subsidize housing like this, I suspect the money will mostly end up in the landlord’s pockets rather than helping renters (ie rents will go up to almost exactly to compensate for the subsidy).  This ties in, tangentially, with some of the points made above.

NB this is also why any Republican who tries to argue for voucherizing Medicare should be slapped hard.

Comment #59: bexley  on  11/08  at  07:26 PM

Per HUD, an American living anywhere in the country and working full-time should be paying no more than 50 hours’ worth of gross pay a month for housing. Anyplace this isn’t reasonably possible, housing is too expensive. It has nothing to do with whether living there is a choice. Fifty-nine hours a month in rent is too damn high no matter where you live.

The problem is, you can’t solve this by subsidy or regulation, because if you have a housing shortage, people with money who need housing will simply circumvent the subsidies and regulations, and there will always be people left on the waiting lists who can’t get in.

I could very well get behind HUD saying “if your workers are paying more than 50 hours’ worth of gross pay a month for housing, you need to allow more housing to be built”. I think that’s probably true. But HUD hasn’t said that. (And in New York, you’d actually have to build a ton of additional housing to get to that point.)

Comment #60: Dilan Esper  on  11/08  at  07:28 PM

Wasn’t there a movie where New York City was a gated community?  Yeah, I’d go for that, Kurt Russell, Lee Van Cleef, Adrienne Barbeau, et al.  Cool.

Comment #61: Iam138  on  11/08  at  07:49 PM

I just am not buying that living in the city is a “privilege”, at least not the way McArdle does. The simple fact is that you can’t have a sustainable community on that scale without having people living more or less side by side. There is no free market solution for this. It requires a serious look at the economics of property investment to figure out how to make it work; I’m not going to claim to know enough to figure it out myself, but it’s possible to find a happy medium based on a refined view of rent control.

That said, I’m not keen on housing projects, at least not the way they’re currently understood. In the end they are a necessity, but they wind up being indiscriminate and dangerous warehouses for people who would be doing far better in a just world alongside people who have serious problems and flat-out criminals. It seems to me attempting to create a housing project with some way of the residents being able to invest in the community, starting their own businesses with low-interest loans and the like, would be a huge step forward. (That however doesn’t do much to deal with the issue of washouts and criminals. I’d imagine there are some social workers with ideas though.)

Comment #62: BrianX  on  11/08  at  08:01 PM

Brian:

What you are saying is contradictory:

I just am not buying that living in the city is a “privilege”, at least not the way McArdle does.

The simple fact is that you can’t have a sustainable community on that scale without having people living more or less side by side….

I’m not going to claim to know enough to figure it out myself, but it’s possible to find a happy medium based on a refined view of rent control.

That said, I’m not keen on housing projects, at least not the way they’re currently understood. In the end they are a necessity, but they wind up being indiscriminate and dangerous warehouses for people who would be doing far better in a just world alongside people who have serious problems and flat-out criminals. It seems to me attempting to create a housing project with some way of the residents being able to invest in the community, starting their own businesses with low-interest loans and the like, would be a huge step forward.

If large cities don’t work well without people living side by side (and they generally don’t), then you need to build out to the density that matches the demand for housing. And that means housing projects, either public or private. If you don’t build that housing, then the imbalance between supply and demand will drive up housing costs, and the people who get to live there will either be rich (privilege) or the ones best able to game the system that is supposed to guarantee affordable housing (also privilege).

And rent control doesn’t solve this, because all it does is disallow landlords from setting the price at housing at the market clearing price. Instead, at the lower price, you will have greater demand for housing than you will have a supply of it, which means whoever wins the rent control lottery or games the system successfully will get the housing (again, privilege) and everyone else who would like to purchase housing on the same terms will be out of luck.

As I said, there are only two ways to decouple big city living from privilege—build far, far more housing (which drives housing costs down, but which incumbents don’t like) or do something about income inequality (which is responsible for bidding wars on scarce housing in big cities). But since we aren’t doing either right now, urban living is inextricably bound up with privilege.

Comment #63: Dilan Esper  on  11/08  at  08:12 PM

 
  ArielNYC: Thats essentially correct. A lot of what is marked for historical preservation, isn’t really worth preserving. Historical preservation tends to be a tool used by Liberal NIMBYs to prevent development that they don’t want. I think that Dylan really captures the essence of liberal NIMBYism in 53. To make housing more affordable in NYC, you need to change outer borough zoning to allow building at Manhattan level densities and build more high rise and medium rise apartment buildings. This will cut down on the low rise Brooklyn neighborhoods beloved by certain types disappear but the housing stock will increase.

Comment #64: Lee  on  11/09  at  12:06 AM

2 things.  First, although I am temperamentally, and indeed factually (as I will explain), very much with Amanda on this, I have to say that (though I skimmed) I took McA’s point to simply be that people who manage to achieve the level of prosperity necessary to live comfortably in New York City cannot claim to have a different level of prosperity than someone making a roughly income in a different, less expensive place to live, and that if that level of prosperity amounts to an income level that we would consider rich for someone living, in, say, Madison, Wisconsin (say, $250,000 household income), that the household who earns that while living in New York cannot claim not to be rich or to be deserving of special tax treatment (i.e., say, some type of place-of-residence-based exemption from the repeal of the Bush tax cuts on income over $250,000, should it ever occur) simply because, you know, sending your kids to a “decent” (read: swanky) elementary school is, you know, not cheap.

All that being said, the fact of the matter is that, for someone willing to make the tremendous amenities and world-class infrastructure the city has to offer work for them as intended (by living in borough [you don’t even have to live far out], using public transportation, eating frugally [which very much can include taking full advantage of the city’s culinary offerings], and stretch the entertainment dollar as far as it will go—not even a challenge given the tremendous selection of free and very cheap cultural offerings)—New York City isn’t even a particularly expensive place to live, even your job is in Manhattan.  So really, McArdle doesn’t have a factual leg to stand on here if her claim is that New York actually is an extremely expensive place to live.  However, all those facts actually only strengthen her point if her point is only that well-off people have no basis upon which to do the kind of special pleading for their exceptional circumstance at having to live in such an expensive place.  It’s their choices that make it expensive.

The second thing is that, according to wiki, Megan McArdle was born and grew up in New York City.

Comment #65: MDrew  on  11/09  at  08:39 AM

And that means housing projects, either public or private. If you don’t build that housing, then the imbalance between supply and demand will drive up housing costs, and the people who get to live there will either be rich (privilege) or the ones best able to game the system that is supposed to guarantee affordable housing (also privilege).

Unfortunately, one aspect not discusssed here is how lack of architectural planning, criminally inadequate maintenance of public housing due to fiscal problems/corruption, insufficient protections against violent criminals, and extremely high densities have been cited by friends in urban studies and dead tree criminology journals as reasons for high crime rates in many urban housing projects. 

When architectural planning doesn’t allow for community gathering spots/green spaces, governments don’t maintain public housing stock to minimum acceptable legal standards, enact measures to protect the community from violent criminals, and people are packed in like sardines in ways that encourage isolation/alientation from other neighbors, we end up getting many of the serious problems commonly associated with urban public housing. 

These very issues are major factors in why Chicago is tearing down some of the public housing project towers and replacing them with lower-rise buildings with green gathering spaces.

Comment #66: exholt  on  11/09  at  10:38 AM

“New York City isn’t even a particularly expensive place to live, even your job is in Manhattan.”

Uh, yes, yes it is.  A small 1br in Brooklyn or Queens in reach of a subway—and I’m not talking about fashionable neighborhoods like Park Slope or Williamsburg—is minimum $1000-1100.  And when I say “in reach of a subway,” that doesn’t necessarily make you close to a job in Manhattan; you might still have an hour or more commute to work, it’s just walking and train-riding instead of driving.

For the cost of that small 1br, you could get a 2-3br place in Nashville or Western Massachusetts (with separate kitchen, living, and dining rooms! and some yards space! and maybe even your own washer and drier! which are all things in very short supply in NYC!).

Why do we live in NYC, then?  Because there are jobs here.  That’s it.  That’s really it.  There aren’t enough jobs, and they don’t pay enough, especially if you have a family or student loans or have to pay for your own health insurance/care, but you’re more likely to get one at all.

Comment #67: rowmyboat  on  11/09  at  11:42 AM

I have to say that McArdle’s idea of living in a blue state being a privilege sounds an awful lot like “the only problem with living in a blue state is all the liberals”, except it’s being classist instead of politically idiotic.

Comment #68: BrianX  on  11/09  at  01:42 PM

#67:

Reducing the crime rate is a form of gentrification.

Not that we shouldn’t try to prevent crime, but understand that by doing so (especially by lowering housing desnity), you price even more poor people out of the housing market.

Comment #69: Dilan Esper  on  11/09  at  03:06 PM

#69:

I don’t think she’s saying living in a blue state is a privilege. Rather, she is saying living in a large expensive metropolis with a limited supply of housing is a privilege.

Comment #70: Dilan Esper  on  11/09  at  03:07 PM

A small 1br in Brooklyn or Queens in reach of a subway—and I’m not talking about fashionable neighborhoods like Park Slope or Williamsburg—is minimum $1000-1100.

I had a huge 3-bedroom in LIC with views of the Queensboro Bridge & ESB for $1600.  Two of us couples shared it for a while (don’t go for your calculators - that’s $400/mo rent each), after which one of them moved out and we got a roommate - rent jumped to $533 a person.  If that’s especially expensive, I’ll eat my hat. We had a room set aside as an office the entire time.  I’ve paid comparable amounts for 1- and 2-bedrooms in Madison & St. Paul since then that, while slightly better appointed, don’t have views of the Manhattan skyline.  Moreover, the public transportation situation is not even in the same ballpark.  NYC can work fine for people even when they’re working class.  It’s just not that expensive.

Comment #71: MDrew  on  11/09  at  08:21 PM

Oh - around the block from the NW; worked at 52nd & 7th, two blocks from 55th & 7th NRW stop (twenty-minute commute, waiting included).  Admittedly, that I worked so close to a stop of the train that went by my place was lucky; for a while I worked on the Columbia campus.  But it wasn’t a coincidence that the place was around the block from the stop; that was just a real fact-on-the-ground.

Granted, no laundry on the premises.  But a laundromat was closer than the train stop, and I hate using dank apt. building laundry spaces.  Also: a perfectly serviceable basic grocery right under the train stop (good prices, with great Boars Head deli sandwiches), and a Bangladeshi barber who charged $8 and threw in a face massage.  Life was good.

31st St & 36th Ave is where I’m talking about.

Comment #72: MDrew  on  11/09  at  08:33 PM

But yes: I agree about the jobs.  I’ve barely had one since I moved away from NYC in 2008.

Comment #73: MDrew  on  11/09  at  08:35 PM

My parents met as teachers living in subsidized (I think actually FREE) cottages located on the grounds of the school they taught at; the somewhat tony private school I attended in the late 80s also had a number of cottages some teachers lived at.

Using the spare land a school already has (many schools where I am are much larger than they need to be) for state-subsidized housing gives at least some teachers (you wouldn’t be able to house them all) a perk worth more than any cash equivalent the state could realistically give.

Comment #74: Mark Temporis  on  11/11  at  02:38 AM

Just to be clear, there are a cpuple million people who live in NYC BECAUSE WE WERE BORN HERE.

I’m one of those folks - I was born at St Vincent’s Hospital, 12th St & 7th Av South in Manhattan, in June 1968, I spent my childhood in Far Rockaway, Queens and I’ve lived on Amsterdam Av in West Harlem since 1992 I own a housepainting company and I work as a union carpenter in the luxury hotels and office towers of Midtown.

There was a time when it was easy for folks like me to live in this city. Our Housing Authority’s projects (the largest and best public housing system in the nation, despite the racist propaganda from the real estate developers and the media) was started in 1934 and we had Rent Control from 1947 to 1971.

Since 1971 the real estate scum have been allowed to run amok and profiteer at the expense of working class New Yorkers. Those swine artificially created a housing shortage by literally burning down about 200,000 apartments in the 1970s, a vast crime against working class New Yorkers that none of them have ever done time for.

Perhaps we can focus an offshot of the OWS against these particularly vicious branch of the 1%.

Comment #75: GregoryAButler  on  11/12  at  07:18 PM

As for what I would do to solve this I have a simple and radical answer - expropriate the billionaire real estate developers.

The bulk of NYC’s present luxury housing stock was built between 1968 and the present thanks to several billion dollars in public subsidies. In the last 20 years, most of those public subsidies for luxury housing were, ironically enough, funds intended to build AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR THE POOR!

Most of the construction workers that built these luxury housing units were non union immigrant or minority workers paid far below Davis Bacon wage scales. Many of these workers were paid $ 8/hr off the books with no benefits paid, not even workers comp or social security.

The working class of NYC has paid for the gilded palaces of the rich several times over.


Those buildings should be seized without compensation and turned over to the NYC Housing Authority, to be rented out like project apartments are, with rent pegged to a percentage of the renter’s household income.

Yes its radical and yes the landlords and the real estate profiteers would fight this idea tooth and nail. However its what needs to be done.

Comment #76: GregoryAButler  on  11/12  at  07:46 PM
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