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The wingnut anti-soccer lie machine, or how teabaggers determined England is in South America

Reading this only clarifies something that’s been really obvious to me for awhile—-the emotional satisfaction of being a wingnut comes from being able to rationalize your deep desire to be a hater.  This is something I’ve suspected for a long time about the anti-choice movement in particular, and today my column at RH Reality Check touches on how much not having a life and hating people who do is really at the heart of the anti-choice movement. But the fact that all the right wing pundits have organized around hating on the World Cup is pretty much proof positive that they believe that what their audience wants is an endless stream of haterade.  World Cup is growing in popularity.  People enjoy it.  It tends, in the U.S. at least, to weaken nationalist sentiment.  That’s reason enough to flip out and try to take a giant piss all over it. 

It doesn’t help things, either, that Americans tend to associate soccer with women and girls, and with immigrant populations.  Which I suppose is amusing to the rest of the world, but in the U.S. it just means that soccer can be used handily by conservative white dudes as a symbol of everything they consider inferior.  I don’t think it’s accurate to say that World Cup’s growing popularity in the U.S. is strictly due to immigration, Title IX, and hipstery urban liberal types—-I think the marketing blitz probably has a whole lot to do with it—-but the perception is that all these hated trends are the only reason for World Cup’s popularity.  Or the popularity of soccer in general, especially the growth in youth leagues, pick-up games, and even MLS. 

This shores up a concern I’ve had that soccer is increasingly becoming a touchstone for racists who target their hatred at Mexican-Americans, alongside other cultural markers like Cinco de Mayo and even, amazingly, the eating of salsa. There’s already reports of racist incidents that center around soccer, such as this Texas teacher who flipped out on a student who was wearing the jersey of a Mexican team. Considering that World Cup is touching down during a time of aggravated racial tension in the Southwest, I fear that these kinds of associations will just get stronger.  Already you’re getting some pundits trying to work that implication in.

Discussing soccer’s popularity in the U.S. on his June 10 program, G. Gordon Liddy asked, “Whatever happened to American exceptionalism?” Liddy noted that “this game ... originated with the South American Indians and instead of a ball, they used to use the head, the decapitated head, of an enemy warrior.”

In reality, of course, soccer was invented in England.  But this sort of misinformation and blatant racism while trying to shore up hatred of the sport is endemic to the right wing anti-World Cup panic. 

MRC’s Dan Gainor: “Soccer is designed as a poor man or poor woman’s sport,” “the left is pushing [soccer] in schools across the country.” Also on the June 10 G. Gordon Liddy Show, Media Research Center’s Dan Gainor said, “the problem here is, soccer is designed as a poor man or poor woman’s sport” and that “the left is pushing it in schools across the country.”  He added: “generally football games in this country don’t devolve into riots or wars.” He later added that the sport of soccer “is being sold” as necessary due to the “browning of America.”

Perhaps the problem is that G. Gordon Liddy and his guests think England is south of the American border?  That’s the only explanation I can come up with.  First they credit South American Indians with inventing a game that comes from England, and then they conflate soccer violence with the “browning of America”, even though the football thuggery they’re thinking of is once again the province of pale Englishmen. 


And the notion that it’s a “poor man’s sport” doesn’t reflect the reality of soccer, a sport where the amount of money being flung around has reached obscene proportions, even by American standards. As one of our resident soccer bloggers explained to me this morning while I crafted my response, club soccer operates way more on free market principles than any major American sport.  Unlike in American sports, there are basically no caps on what people can pay for anything, and players are actually bought and sold with cash, instead of on the trading system used in American sports.  Teams are ridiculously expensive.  And in a move that should make conservatives cream their pants, countries like Spain actually offer huge tax breaks to soccer players as an incentive to come play for their teams.  The numbers that are being used often to talk about soccer aren’t in the millions—-increasingly they’re in the billions.  It’s just simply factually incorrect to call it a poor man’s sport. 

But it is funny to me that the supposedly populist teabaggers are so responsive to hating anything that’s associated with the common man, at least when instructed by their leaders to do so.

Beck was also factually incorrect.

In an extensive rant on the June 11 Glenn Beck Program, Beck purported to explain how President Obama’s policies “are the World Cup” of “political thought.” Beck stated, “It doesn’t matter how you try to sell it to us, it doesn’t matter how many celebrities you get, it doesn’t matter how many bars open early, it doesn’t matter how many beer commercials they run, we don’t want the World Cup, we don’t like the World Cup, we don’t like soccer, we want nothing to do with it.” Beck stated that likewise, “the rest of the world likes Barack Obama’s policies, we do not.”

This is an argument that depends on defining huge numbers of Americans as not real Americans in order to work.  Because if you’re talking about “we” as in “Americans”, we do in fact love fucking World Cup.  (Believe me—-Jesse was in NYC this weekend, and we tried to find a bar in Brooklyn to watch the England-US game, and it was hard, since every single bar was packed to its gills.)  Can’t argue with the numbers:

“If you ranked World Cup viewing by countries going back to 1998, the U.S. ranked 23rd,” said Kevin Alavy, director of Initiative Sports Futures, a London-based analysis firm. “In 2002, the U.S. jumped to 13th, and in 2006, it jumped again to 8th place. And we expect America to keep on jumping.”

In 2006, the ESPN-ESPN2-ABC broadcasts of the World Cup reached 70.2 million viewers while Univision reached 29.5 million, according to Nielsen Media Research.

Marketing the game has worked, whether Beck likes it or not.  And it works for the very reasons he hates the game—-because American audiences are increasingly open to the message that World Cup is the thing to do.  Younger Americans are simply more diverse, more global in their orientation, and more open-minded to foreign imports.  And these attitudes are showing up in the growth rate of World Cup’s popularity.

This isn’t really a “rah rah” World Cup post, because please god I don’t want another lecture about how I didn’t look at the god-save-me-from-the-word-problematic aspects of soccer culture.  But it’s a good indication of why the term “culture war” is such an apt one when talking about movement conservatism.  It’s not just the narrow culture wars over sexuality that we usually are thinking of when we use the term.  They see themselves as warriors in an all-out battle to stop the country’s cultural direction towards not just a more feminist, liberated culture, but also one that’s more open-minded and globally minded.  Which is funny, because watching the World Cup isn’t really a political act so much as a fun past time, but if conservatives keep banging on about it like this, that might change. 

For those who still find the excitement over this game baffling, Marc has another primer post up.  This time it’s on why low scoring doesn’t automatically mean boring.  And I’m forced to point out that if football didn’t give you 6 points for a touchdown but only gave you one or two, then that would also be a low scoring game.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 09:44 AM • (110) Comments

That’s the thing that seems so weird to me—soccer is getting a lot more popular, and American soccer teams are getting a lot better. “Hey, millions of people enjoy something—maybe if I say I hate it, I’ll get popular! I see no possible way my genius plan can fail!”

And soccer is probably one of the biggest youth sports in the country—when I was a kid, everyone I knew played soccer—and I knew very few kids who played youth football or Little League. (Maybe T-ball is bigger, but I doubt it…) It just seems stupid to tell parents “Hey, you know that game your kids play? The one where you go out every weekend and cheer for them and have fun watching the game and maybe coach the team or at least bring oranges for halftime? Yeah, that game’s commie. Your kid’s a commie, too, you big commie.”

Comment #1: Scott  on  06/14  at  11:17 AM

They’ll probably take “all the bars in Brooklyn were packed with people watching the World Cup game” as additional evidence that only un-American people like the World Cup (but you said that I guess)

Comment #2: neff  on  06/14  at  11:20 AM

So the wingnuts have decided that soccer is the sport of the poor and effete. I think you should also point out how much more skill and athletic ability it takes to play soccer than to oh, say drive around in circles (Nascar).

Comment #3: DC Fem  on  06/14  at  11:25 AM

I’d love to see their heads explode, walking into a bar full of straight up Williamsburg hipsters and finding that they’re chanting “U S A!”  Which is exactly what I got an eyeful of Saturday.

Comment #4: Amanda Marcotte  on  06/14  at  11:25 AM

“Whatever happened to American exceptionalism?”

Asked the bungling, incompetent burglar.

Yo G, check out a Lazio match. They’re a bunch of fucking fascists, should be right up your alley.

Comment #5: Sarcastro  on  06/14  at  11:26 AM

Of course we’re catching up to the rest of the planet in World Cup viewership.  Never, ever bet against America if TV watching is involved.  We will watch the shit out of your pansy nation!

Comment #6: Andy  on  06/14  at  11:28 AM

So unintentionally revealing.  Calling it a “poor man’s sport” because it doesn’t need much in the way of fancy equipment, and thinking that it’s self-evidently obvious that “poor” = “dirty.”  But we’re not the Party of the Rich(tm)!  No!  Thurston here is a Man of the People!

Comment #7: elmo  on  06/14  at  11:29 AM

In England at least football is considered the working class sport and rugby is the middle class sport. They play soccer in the state schools and rugby in the public (they mean private) schools. Obviously that’s a generalization but you get the point. There is a colloquialism that soccer is a gentleman’s sport played by thugs and rugby is a thug’s sport played by gentlemen, I’m paraphrasing a bit here. Obviously there is far more money in soccer these days and probably more people watch it I just thought you might find that interesting. Anyhow, Go Italy.

Comment #8: pharmakos  on  06/14  at  11:29 AM

There’s a funny side effect of this that some people are starting to use watching the World Cup as a litmus test of being a Good Liberal, which is a new experience for me, having my political cred called into question over whether I like watching a freaking sports game or not.  (Probable answer, regardless of the sport: no.)  But at least that’s only individual goofballs doing that and not people with huge audiences on cable TV and talk radio.

Comment #9: neff  on  06/14  at  11:33 AM

I think the Good Liberal thing is a little silly, but it makes sense in the context of sports themselves.  Like, I get not liking sports.  But if you suck down football, baseball, and basketball but then balk at soccer, I have to point out that perhaps your motivations are less than pure.

Comment #10: Amanda Marcotte  on  06/14  at  11:36 AM

Even if you don’t speak Spanish watch the World Cup on Telemundo.  The commentators manage to consistently maintain an excitement level that I usually associate with championship victories and reactor core breaches.

Comment #11: Andy  on  06/14  at  11:37 AM

“Soccer is designed as a poor man or poor woman’s sport,

Kind of funny because at my fancy private high school, soccer was the sport of choice for feeding students into elite colleges.

To a degree, soccer is the poor man’s sport: the amount of equipment and infrastructure you need is minimal: an open field, a ball, and a few tshirts to mark the boundaries of the goal. But that’s the funny thing for right wingers: soccer is apparently a sin BOTH for being the sport of the poor AND for being the sport of effete elitists.

What’s funny is that the quitessential rich man’s sport in America, lacrosse, really WAS originated by native South American tribes as part of a sacrificial ritual.

Comment #12: Tyro  on  06/14  at  11:38 AM

some people are starting to use watching the World Cup as a litmus test of being a Good Liberal

If they try that on you, pull the, “I’m such a good liberal that I do not approve of expensive public spectator sports that enrich the elites, and for that matter do not even own a television.” That will allow you to win the “Good Liberal” contest.

Comment #13: Tyro  on  06/14  at  11:41 AM

But you lose by being the “I don’t watch TV” guy, which makes you way more insufferable than anyone who anxiously feels like they should care about soccer because it’s popular.

Comment #14: Amanda Marcotte  on  06/14  at  11:42 AM

You’d think they’d love the chance to root for the palest white people (England, Netherlands) over every type of dark people would give the wingnuts a collective stiffie, but alas, it’s not to be.  They could barely get behind hockey when it was a battle between capitalists and Soviets; with that gone, international sports are apparently pretty anathema.

Comment #15: Billingham  on  06/14  at  11:43 AM

What, exactly, is their problem with taking something designed to be a poor person’s sport and using it in schools?  Are they now coming out for frivolous spending in government institutions, coddling youngsters, and the institution of public schools receiving a greater share of the government pie?  I mean, if you’re taking it on face value instead of going all dog-whistle code-wordy on it, they’re against public schools adopting things that give their students the most bang for their buck.

Comment #16: preying mantis  on  06/14  at  11:47 AM

I used to be one of those, “I don’t watch TV” guys. Until I realized, it was just a specialer kind of stupid.

Comment #17: atheist  on  06/14  at  11:49 AM

Reading this only clarifies something that’s been really obvious to me for awhile—-the emotional satisfaction of being a wingnut comes from being able to rationalize your deep desire to be a hater.

Excellent one-sentence description of the entire conservative movement.

Comment #18: atheist  on  06/14  at  11:52 AM

What, exactly, is their problem with taking something designed to be a poor person’s sport and using it in schools? 

The problem is that you can’t allow poor people to enjoy something on their own terms: poor people need to be ashamed for not being rich, so they need to be told that they need to get involved with expensive sports and then suffer for lacking the right equipment, having their sports facilities in poor repair, or not playing at all. What good is being rich, after all, if the poor don’t envy you for having something they don’t?

And even worse: middle class kids might decide that they prefer the poor kids’ sport, meaning that your own kids might drag themselves down to the level of the poor kids.

It must take quite a toll on cobservatives’ psyches, trying to delicately balance not being mistaken for poor while also not getting any whif of “cultural elite” on them: which is actually the most negative status marker of all—being constantly worried about how people will perceive your social status.

Comment #19: Tyro  on  06/14  at  11:54 AM

I think would be quite appropriate for G. Gordon “Short Man’s Syndrome, Overcompensating, Eggplant Hammock Wearing, Bush Jr’s Package Obsessed, Probably Latent Homosexual, Screwed up the Watergate Burglary, Aim for the Head ‘Cause They’re Wearing Bulletproof Vests” Liddy donate his head to be used in place of the pigskin in a Real American Football Game™, and show those panty-waisted Uropeons and Mesicans and Afrikans what Real Sports look like.

And then while the rednecks, the haters, the red staters, anti-immigrants, repeal the 14th, teabagging assholes are occupied, the rest of us can enjoy something else…

Comment #20: MikeEss  on  06/14  at  11:54 AM

Reading this only clarifies something that’s been really obvious to me for awhile—-the emotional satisfaction of being a wingnut comes from being able to rationalize your deep desire to be a hater.

Me too. It’s very much an emotional thing, and an easy emotion at that, one that doesn’t require a person to challenge herself at all. It’s a lot easier to hate or Other something (or someone) than it is to understand it (or her). This goes as much for race/class bigotry and xenophobia as it does for, say, kneejerk dismissals of “little feminists” or activists of any stripe.

Comment #21: Ranylt  on  06/14  at  11:59 AM

The pissiness about “poor man’s sport” has a lot to do with the fundamental hatred of genuine meritocracies.  Rich people’s kids have a bunch of bought advantages, and then they tell themselves it was bootstraps.  A sport where you don’t need a lot of resources to become a star is a sport where they can’t buy their kids a leg up, and that scares them.

Comment #22: Amanda Marcotte  on  06/14  at  12:03 PM

I’m frankly amazed there isn’t more haterade aimed at basketball, honestly.  Talk about a sport that incorporates itself into environments wingnuts hate.  For instance, it’s perfect for denser neighborhoods, because the playing field just takes up less space.

Comment #23: Amanda Marcotte  on  06/14  at  12:05 PM

#23

I’m frankly amazed there isn’t more haterade aimed at basketball, honestly.

Good point. I wonder if it’s because they’re afraid they’ll be smacked down if they directly attack basketball, while hating foreign-ish, immigrant-ish soccer feels safe right now.

Comment #24: atheist  on  06/14  at  12:08 PM

I think it’s there for basketball.  It’s less about the game, because it’s already well ingrained enough in American life so that you can’t say too much about it.  So they talk about the players - the NBA players are constantly described as ‘thugs’ any time they don’t apologize for being black.

Comment #25: Billingham  on  06/14  at  12:26 PM

I think the soccer vs football in scoring is a bad analogy.  There have been a few 1-0 games so far in the Cup.  In football, there is usually only one 3-0 or 7-0 game played in an entire season.  Even a 13-10 game would be 3-2 in terms of times they score.  Even they score more in hockey and they have a smaller net to shoot it in!

Comment #26: Albert Cirrus  on  06/14  at  12:27 PM

The community I reside in was traditionally heavy with Portuguese and Italian immigrants.  Their football loving ways are now validated by an influx of Asians, Brazillians, Central Americans and folks from Africa.  My son’s soccer teams look like a United Colours of Benetton ad.  Wingnut nightmare?  oh yeah!  Free Red Cards for Whitopian Bigmouths all around!

The rising popularity of soccer is a function of the rising population of people with soccer heritage.  Just Simply seeing some soccer reminds wingnuts that the days of white privilege are over and over very soon - particularly when the whole to do is being broadcast live from South Africa!

My younger son and I had that very discussion of meritocracy during the Germany-Australia game.  Just look at the German team - with names that are Slavic, Indian, and Turkish. More wingnut inadequacy in a small puddle nightmare on tap!

Comment #27: Ms Kate  on  06/14  at  12:31 PM

“generally football games in this country don’t devolve into riots or wars.”

Clearly, Dan Gainor has never lived in Gainesville, Florida, or any other big college town that’s serious about sports.

Comment #28: Av0gadro  on  06/14  at  12:34 PM

#23

“I’m frankly amazed there isn’t more haterade aimed at basketball, honestly.  Talk about a sport that incorporates itself into environments wingnuts hate.  For instance, it’s perfect for denser neighborhoods, because the playing field just takes up less space.”

I think there is some of this involved in people who hate the NBA. But that’s just my sense in that there’s some fraction of the people who complain about the NBA’s ‘image problem’ and ‘there’s too much showboating’ would like to say ‘It’s too black.’ Just my sense, though, and I say this as a person who doesn’t like the NBA because of the style of play and I much prefer watching the college game. I actually think that, basically, it’s too easy to score in the NBA because the players are so much better and defense is not really encouraged, so each individual basket means a lot less.

Comment #29: witless chum  on  06/14  at  12:39 PM

Could it be that soccer became popular to play in schools (crammed down throats again here, eh?) because a bunch of wingnuts decided they didn’t like paying for things in schools?  Huh?

Comment #30: Ms Kate  on  06/14  at  12:42 PM

@ Amanda, #23

There is a little bit of hate directed toward basketball - remember that nutjob that wanted to create an all-white basketball league thing because “the sport has been corrupted” - apparently by people who are really good at it?

I wonder if these wingnuts ever stop to think about what the world would be like if everything they hated was suddenly made illegal - no sex, no sports, no education, etc.  It’s incredibly boring and terrifying at the same time.

Comment #31: mythbri  on  06/14  at  12:46 PM

I think you should also point out how much more skill and athletic ability it takes to play soccer than to oh, say drive around in circles (Nascar).

I think you should drive a stock-car at speed, in traffic, for 500 miles before making any such claim.

Believe you me, as a racer I detest NASCAR in ways you probably can’t even comprehend, but I don’t think for a second that it doesn’t require phenomenal skill and massive athleticism to compete in at the top level.

Comment #32: Sarcastro  on  06/14  at  12:53 PM

I find this whole argument fascinating, myself. The wingnuts are wrong to damn the sport for being ostensibly working class (it is, but no more than baseball - but that’s okay because it’s American) but right to be scared as it’s fundamentally multicultural. All the top teams have multinational, multiracial lineups and here in the UK at least, this has played a big, if largely unrecognized part in the breakdown in racial divisions throughout society in the last few years.

Similarly, there’s been a huge sense of anticipation for the tournament building for the last few months and it’s only partially for the England team itself. Rather, fans have been looking forward to seeing the best the world has to offer squaring up against each other. Like many people, me and my friends are attempting to watch every game we can - they’re all being shown live on terrestrial TV - and the sense of togetherness it brings to a city as multicultural as London (or New York) is brilliant. I remember visiting my mother in hospital during the last world cup and marvelling at all the cars going by with Ghana flags attached to them just three miles from my suburban middle-England house, and seeing shedloads of different flags hanging in shops and restaurants next to England ones. It gives people a chance to share the thing they love with strangers and acts as a reminder that deep down we’re not so different after all.

Comment #33: Stubborn Kind of Fellow  on  06/14  at  12:53 PM

I was at a party once, and Media Matters surfed the internet to read a G. Gordon Liddy column and kept reading it. Media Matters kept on reading it until the vitreous fluid in his eyeballs began to boil. Somebody said, “What’s the trick?” And Media Matters said, “The trick is not minding.”

Comment #34: norbizness  on  06/14  at  12:53 PM

We had to try three bars before we found a place to sit down for the US-Eng match.  The first two you couldn’t even find a spot to stand it, apparently (I was en route, but this is what the folks I was meeting said).  And this, in Nashville, TN. 

And a funny/not-funny—the phlebotomist at my doc’s office is a Middle Eastern immigrant, and we were talking World Cup while I got poked with needles last Thursday.  I mentioned playing soccer, and he was flabbergasted that I played competitively when I was younger, and the occasional pickup game as an adult.  Because apparently girls/women don’t play soccer in his country of origin.  And I guess it’s not quite so popular around here for younger kids as it is up north where I grew up.

Comment #35: rowmyboat  on  06/14  at  12:57 PM

Rowmyboat, I coached my sons U8, U10, and U12 teams.  I spent a year as head coach of 11 and 12 year olds, and did not hesitate to kick their arses in goal or as defender if need be.  It got their respect.

It also meant that when they ended up going against a mixed boy/girl team - totally unfair given maturity advantages of the girls their same age - they took their ass kicking without a blink.  One of their dads asked them about getting beat by girls and I overheard “naw - coach Kate never let us just get by”.  It is good for both boys and girls that girls play soccer.

Comment #36: Ms Kate  on  06/14  at  01:03 PM

I should add as well that part of what we love about international football is the way teams can often reflect some sense of the national character, or at least our idea of it. Football may not be a force in the US yet but it’s at a tipping point and all it’s going to take is an American David Beckham-type player to emerge from the country to put it over the top. Some kind of Lebron/Tiger/Grtezky figure the sports companies can build campaigns around and American kids can look up to as the best, as opposed to the feeling of inferiority wingnuts must have knowing it’s a sport where the USA is a second rate power. It looked like Freddie Adu for a bit but right now it looks like it could be a while yet.

Comment #37: Stubborn Kind of Fellow  on  06/14  at  01:04 PM

Tyro,  lacrosse comes from the Native Americans of northeastern US and Canada - particularly the Iroquois tribes.

Comment #38: syfr  on  06/14  at  01:07 PM

I’d love to see their heads explode, walking into a bar full of straight up Williamsburg hipsters and finding that they’re chanting “U S A!” Which is exactly what I got an eyeful of Saturday.
Comment #4: Amanda Marcotte on 06/14 at 10:25 AM

If you think the hipsters would have blown their minds, we had a woman with our group wearing a US flag hijab!

You would imagine they would love a sport that encourages overt displays of flagwaving U-S-A shouting chauvinism. The bar I was at was like a tea-bagger wet dream, everyone dressed in red, white, and blue belting out the Star Spangled Banner, wearing “don’t tread on me” and “join or die” (I didn’t point out the irony of wearing this one for a match against England, it’s the thought that counts) flags.

Comment #39: Babieca  on  06/14  at  01:11 PM

“I’m frankly amazed there isn’t more haterade aimed at basketball, honestly.  Talk about a sport that incorporates itself into environments wingnuts hate.  For instance, it’s perfect for denser neighborhoods, because the playing field just takes up less space.”

It’s white people’s cockfighting/dogfighting.  The players aren’t really people. 

As Billingham noted, the players themselves get hate out of proportion to what they do, largely because they aren’t white.  Why can’t they all be like those funny, unthreatening Harlem Globetrotters?

Comment #40: oldfeminist  on  06/14  at  01:20 PM

We got a semi-joking, semi-serious memo about not fighting with coworkers over world cup soccer.  When it comes to other sports, consensus is that the Lakers suck and the Yankees suck.  Footbal is another matter.

(as for my booting a beachball into a Liverpool fan’s cubicle last fall, well, that’s out now too)

Comment #41: Ms Kate  on  06/14  at  01:21 PM

It’s amusing to see the Glenn Becks of this country whine about Americans being forced to pay attention to soccer. IOW, once every four years, America gets a tiny taste of what it does to the rest of the world every minute of every day, with sports, movies, TV, music…almost every form of entertainment.

I kind of feel sorry for that poor English goalkeeper. He’s about to become the Bill Buckner of international soccer.

Comment #42: Bitter Scribe  on  06/14  at  01:31 PM

International sports competitions are when I get my nationalism on.  It’s fun and relatively harmless, and I like sports.  Win win!

Comment #43: themann1086  on  06/14  at  01:34 PM

as for my booting a beachball into a Liverpool fan’s cubicle last fall, well, that’s out now too

Nice! I threatened a Liverpool rootin coworker with coming in for Haloween as a beach-ball. I came as <strike>Disco Stu</strike> Marouane Fellaini instead.

Comment #44: Sarcastro  on  06/14  at  01:53 PM

Av0gadro:

“generally football games in this country don’t devolve into riots or wars.”

Clearly, Dan Gainor has never lived in Gainesville, Florida, or any other big college town that’s serious about sports.

Hell, I could name a half-dozen college towns just off the top of my head that engage in a days-long bacchanal of drunken couch-burning after any big game, almost regardless of whether they win or lose.

Morgantown, WV, I’m looking at you. Yes, you.

Comment #45: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  06/14  at  01:55 PM

And then while the rednecks, the haters, the red staters, anti-immigrants, repeal the 14th, teabagging assholes are occupied,

Mike, put down the comma and step away from it. The comma is not your friend!

Comment #46: firefall  on  06/14  at  02:03 PM

I actually own, and have nearly worn out, a Cruz Azul shirt.  Odd trivia: the original Cruz Azul team of the 1920s consisted mostly of concrete workers of Mexico City.  Being a civil engineer, I have a soft spot for concrete workers.

Comment #47: helen w. h.  on  06/14  at  02:05 PM

“Mike, put down the comma and step away from it. The comma is not your friend!”

The humble comma is the punctuation mark of the people, not like that elitist period, which claims to be the be-all, end-all of everything.  The more commas, the better!...

Comment #48: MikeEss  on  06/14  at  02:14 PM

Tyro:  Also, the game played in South America was played by Mesoamericans - from the Mayans in Central American to as far south as Nicaraugua.  It was played by teams, with a rubber ball (never a severed head, because heads don’t bounce for beans), that had to be hit through a vertical stone loop without using the hands.  It was a pretty violent game, often resulting in such severe bruising that the players had to be cut to drain the hematomas.

Oh, and the losers were sacrificed to the gods, in some cases.

Here’s the Wiki link:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_ballgame

Regarding lacrosse (a French word, by the way), it was played by the Seven Nations of the Iroquois, and thus really is an American sport.

Comment #49: Mhorag  on  06/14  at  02:19 PM

“Could it be that soccer became popular to play in schools (crammed down throats again here, eh?) because a bunch of wingnuts decided they didn’t like paying for things in schools?  Huh?”

And then there is that Title IX thing that Amanda mentioned.  Starting soccer teams is a great way to create a sports program with relatively equal numbers of male and female players for that sport.  I think that part* of why it’s seen as a girl’s sport here in the US is because a lot of teams at various levels were first started for that very reason - as a way of showing improvement on the title IX front - and without a whole lot of concern at first that those teams really do well.  In fact, I strongly suspect a lot of people involved in those decisions would have been just fine if the teams they started had never gained any success or popularity at all.  I’m guessing there is a not insignificant number of people out there that are just steamed that their attempt to get around the spirit of Title IX ended up instead upholding it’s ideals - to the point where the US women’s soccer team is now considered one of the three dominant teams at the international level.  Hell, to the point where the US’s success** in women’s soccer was arguably one of the driving forces behind finally creating The Women’s World Cup.

*The other big part is that anything that isn’t overwhelmingly dominated by men is seen as belonging to women.  And pretty much everywhere that soccer is played in the US (that I know of), at least a third - if not more - of the players are female.

**China too, we can’t forget China.  Despite their lack of success since then.  But it’s not exactly a coincidence that the creation of Women’s World Cup and the USA hosting the Men’s World Cup for the first time was decided in the same year.  FIFA, being a business, is always eager for new markets, and the US and China are both huge and (at the time) largely untapped markets.  Creating a women’s tournament where both of these nations would dominate at the same time that they were trying to woo fans to men’s soccer (where said nations most definitely did not dominate) was probably seen as a pretty smart marketing decision.

Comment #50: jennygadget  on  06/14  at  02:23 PM

Soccer as a sport that every kid played wasn’t around when I was a kid. The kids that belonged to soccer clubs tended to be rich insufferable snobs.

Seems to be less of the case now.

Comment #51: Dr. Squid  on  06/14  at  02:26 PM

Just correcting one poster up-thread, as a survivor of an English ‘bog-standard comprehensive’ school, I can vouch that Football and Rugby are *both* played there. (Along with cricket.)

It’s true there’s a class divide, with Rugby Union (played in the south) remaining the preferred sport of the upper-middles, but Rugby League (played in the north) has firm working-class roots.

Furthermore, footy in England has made big inroads into the middle class since 1990. Indeed the poor have been priced out of watching the top divisions, making soccer an increasingly gentrified experience.

Strangely, cricket is the sport where all classes have traditionally met. It’s a strange tale, but cricket in most of the great cricketing powers survived because they eventually accepted ‘players’ (i.e. lower-class professionals) to take the field with the ‘gentlemen’ (i.e. upper class amateurs). The one nation in which this did not happen was the USA. And so the Pennsylvania league, which was close to first-class status at the turn of the 20th Century, was sunk by snobbery. Cricket had a long heritage in the US—George Washington was a fan and they played a variant of the game at Valley Forge—but due to classism Baseball was to take over as the working man’s game.

Comment #52: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood  on  06/14  at  02:28 PM

Don’t forget.  During one of the Greatest Times Ever, the 1980s, kids started playing soccer.  Even white kids like me, in new england.

Oh, and aren’t soccer moms one of the most important parts of the electorate?

Just sayin’.

Comment #53: Tom in AZ  on  06/14  at  02:32 PM

Strangely, cricket is the sport where all classes have traditionally met.

Horse racing too, but that’s another matter.

Comment #54: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood  on  06/14  at  02:33 PM

Beck added “those who like the World Cup ... they’re the most likely to riot,” commenting that by contrast, “I haven’t seen the baseball riots.”

Given Beck’s comprehensive ignorance of history, it probably shouldn’t surprise me that he’s never heard of the last Washington Senators’ home game, the 10-cent beer night riot in Cleveland, Disco Demolition Night, etc.

Comment #55: wjts  on  06/14  at  02:35 PM

Football is more transparently cockfighting than basketball is.

Basketball is mostly hated because it’s a genuine meritocracy.  There are some hilarious threads out there in the intertubes about *American White* basketball leagues.  Racism is generally expressed against the league rather than the players so much.  And of course, whiter basketball teams get outsized support.

Comment #56: shah8  on  06/14  at  02:37 PM

And soccer is probably one of the biggest youth sports in the country—when I was a kid, everyone I knew played soccer—and I knew very few kids who played youth football or Little League. (Maybe T-ball is bigger, but I doubt it…)

Soccer was even big when I was a kid, and it was because it was more inclusive. Little League separated in to the has and has-nots even by age 5/6, basketball isn’t something that generally runs for the little kids. So, we all played in soccer leagues. Probably every single kid I knew growing up played league soccer at some point.

But that kid bigness back then, didn’t necessarily continue to adult popularity in that time. Our parents weren’t watching world soccer. But a lot of those kids I knew back then, are now.

Comment #57: hp  on  06/14  at  02:41 PM

And is this yet another variant of the “corporate television hates America” meme? Because the last I checked, ESPN was pumping soccer coverage not because it was being strong-armed by big government but because it’s getting viewers and thus advertisers.

Comment #58: CBrachyrhynchos  on  06/14  at  02:54 PM

I think it’s there for basketball.  It’s less about the game, because it’s already well ingrained enough in American life so that you can’t say too much about it.  So they talk about the players - the NBA players are constantly described as ‘thugs’ any time they don’t apologize for being black.

Ah, so that’s why the right-wing radio host back home in northeast Ohio constantly harps on the fact that LeBron James isn’t married to his girlfriend.  He has to tread carefully, though, because LeBron is the second coming of Christ in those parts.

“generally football games in this country don’t devolve into riots or wars.”

Back in 2003, the Oakland Raiders made it to the Super Bowl, and there were celebratory riots all over Oakland.  A few weeks later, they lost, and there were angry riots.  This wasn’t long after I’d moved to the Bay Area, and the whole spectacle was pretty fascinating.

Comment #59: Shaenon  on  06/14  at  02:55 PM

Hum, I played soccer 30 years ago - Inland Pacific Northwest in Middle School/Jr High.  We had both single sex and mixed teams.  It was the same time ultimate frisbee was a big fad, but before frisbee golf took off.  Even if those other kids don’t watch or follow the sport as a regular thing, it isn’t like it’s something foreign to them.

Comment #60: helen w. h.  on  06/14  at  02:56 PM

Football is more transparently cockfighting than basketball is.

I guess that explains why conservatives don’t mind it so much when the unwashed are allowed to play as a result of the social ist school systems supporting it financially, otherwise there’s no way they’d be able to afford the equipment.

Comment #61: Dr. Squid  on  06/14  at  02:57 PM

(See also complaints that entirely profit-driven companies use Spanish-language advertising and support systems.)

Comment #62: CBrachyrhynchos  on  06/14  at  03:03 PM

Tyro, lacrosse comes from the Native Americans of northeastern US and Canada - particularly the Iroquois tribes.

Lacrosse is, incidentally, Canada’s official national sport, despite the devotion to hockey and having more top curlers than the rest of the world combined.

Comment #63: KeithM  on  06/14  at  03:16 PM

And I’m forced to point out that if football didn’t give you 6 points for a touchdown but only gave you one or two, then that would also be a low scoring game.

I’ve made that point myself (and don’t forget the 3 point field goal, the extra point attempt after scoring a touchdown, and the two-point conversion).

American football provides for more strategic options for scoring given the different types of ways of scoring and the differing point values, but it certainly isn’t that high-scoring a game.

Comment #64: KeithM  on  06/14  at  03:20 PM

“Mike, put down the comma and step away from it. The comma is not your friend!”
The humble comma is the punctuation mark of the people, not like that elitist period, which claims to be the be-all, end-all of everything.  The more commas, the better!…

So that would make the exclamation point what?...a teabagger?

Comment #65: shakahi  on  06/14  at  03:20 PM

Hating on the World Cup has got to be one of the most pointless, idiotic acts of isolationism EVAR.

and then they conflate soccer violence with the “browning of America”, even though the football thuggery they’re thinking of is once again the province of pale Englishmen.

also, pale “aryan” Germans. Hooliganism is a white man’s sport.

The problem is that you can’t allow poor people to enjoy something on their own terms: poor people need to be ashamed for not being rich, so they need to be told that they need to get involved with expensive sports and then suffer for lacking the right equipment, having their sports facilities in poor repair, or not playing at all. What good is being rich, after all, if the poor don’t envy you for having something they don’t?

*lightbulb moment*
ok, that at least is coherent; the randomness of the complaints was starting to give me a headache

Comment #66: jadehawk  on  06/14  at  03:21 PM

Besides the racism (zomg! there are US players with names like Bocanegra and Onyewu!) I imagine many a closeted teabagger gets frothy at the mouth seeing all those beautiful men in excellent physical condition. I mean, keeper Tim Howard looks like he was chiseled out of marble, he’s so ridiculously handsome. Or as Amanda put it when she was describing Daniel Dae Kim,“so good-looking that I’m somewhat convinced he was made in a lab.”

Comment #67: shakahi  on  06/14  at  03:30 PM

After all, when it comes to apres sport violence, we Murkins have the cops do the killing!  Just ask the family of Victoria Snelgrove and her Very Ethnic Companions who were hanging around after a RedSox win!

Comment #68: Ms Kate  on  06/14  at  03:33 PM

My anecdata says that people who are NBA fans also tend to be very much soccer fans (up to and including noted NBA players like Kobe Bryant and Steve Nash). Basketball and soccer actually have a lot in common, much more so than either of those sports has in common with baseball or American football.

Comment #69: Jerry Vinokurov  on  06/14  at  03:34 PM

“Soccer as a sport that every kid played wasn’t around when I was a kid. The kids that belonged to soccer clubs tended to be rich insufferable snobs.”

Well, I also think there is a bit of and/both going on here.  I decided against trying out for the school team after my sophomore year not only because I didn’t stand much of a chance with younger players like Heather Aldama coming up behind me (and I mean that quite literally, btw) but also because my experience playing on the school team that sophomore year was less than stellar, socialization-wise.  Many of the girls I was playing with at school were insufferable snobs.  Many of them also played club soccer.  While there was not a one-to-one correlation between being an insufferable snob and having played club (or being rich) there was some definite overlap there.

But, that doesn’t mean I stopped playing soccer - I kept playing AYSO right up until I graduated, just like I’d always done since kindergarten.  AYSO players are hardly perfect, but my teammates there tended to be a better fit for me.

So, I think a part of it has to do with variety.  When it came to soccer, I was lucky enough to grow up in a place where not only was soccer taken fairly seriously, giving kids like Heather and Landon* a chance to really shine, but it was also popular and widespread enough that there were a lot of choices out there.  It wasn’t limited to just school sports or just AYSO or just club, the game was played at a variety of levels.  And even though the usual trajectory for kids like Landon and Heather was to start out at AYSO and then move onto club well before they were old enough for the school teams, that doesn’t mean that there still weren’t non-club options available for the rest of us - even up through high school.

*and, btw, Landon’s success is kind of exactly what I was talking about in my last post.  Soccer became scary popular in Redlands partly because Redlands screwed itself over high school-sports-wise (and otherwise) by refusing to build a second high school until it was loooong overdue.  And part of the logic for why they did that is because they did not want to split the football team up.  So instead, the high school grew so large that our sports teams all played in really weird leagues.  Meanwhile, soccer gets a foothold in because, well, it CAN be cheap and hey, we need something for girls to do too, yes?  Fast forward through several years of soccer spreading to more and more schools (and therefore club and AYSO teams multiplying too) and our football team playing fewer and fewer local teams (which puts a damper in both the “football rules!” and the “root for your school!” mentalities) until *sigh of relief* we finally get around to approving and building a second high school.  With a fancy new field btw! - and of course people are still concerned about all the good players wanting to play on the fancy fields.  Only, it turns out that the name everyone is really talking about plays soccer, not football.

I mean, Landon would be good no matter how many high schools Redlands had.  And soccer would gain have gained in popularity no matter what one single town did.  But multiply “creating soccer teams to deal with title IX” and “making stupid decisions in order to try to save/prioritize football” times countless cities across the nation, and after a decade or so you get an overall atmosphere that is more conducive to players like Donovan finding international success than would have been the case in the years before.

Comment #70: jennygadget  on  06/14  at  03:35 PM

The irony here is that youth league soccer in the US has had implicit rich/poor and racial divides for too long: you got middle-class white kids playing on nice green pitches with expensive kits, while the ethnic kids had kickabouts in public parks with shirts for goalposts. That’s changing rapidly, though.

There’s another factor, too: the international game develops talent early, so players with a professional future are signing contracts in their mid-teens, making the idea of college sport—a weird Victorian holdover that carries political implications—pretty much moot. (It’s different for the women’s game, but that’s because the US infrastructure has a much greater influence.)

Cricket had a long heritage in the US—George Washington was a fan and they played a variant of the game at Valley Forge—but due to classism Baseball was to take over as the working man’s game.

Not just classism: the US Civil War arrested the prospect of another English cricket tour and the mixing of baseball players from different regions during the war assisted in unifying the rulebooks.

Comment #71: pseudonymous in nc  on  06/14  at  03:41 PM

My anecdata says that people who are NBA fans also tend to be very much soccer fans (up to and including noted NBA players like Kobe Bryant and Steve Nash)

Nash is more than a fan: he plays soccer regularly, his younger brother is a professional player and a member of Team Canada, his younger sister was her university team captain, he owns part of the Vancouver Whitecaps, he’s an investor in Women’s Professional Soccer…and as some might recall, a few years ago when he assisted one of his teammates in the NBA Slam-Dunk Competition the highlight wasn’t the actual dunk but that the pass involved Nash heading the ball.

Comment #72: KeithM  on  06/14  at  03:43 PM

My father grew up in the Depression, the one in the 1930s.

He said our high school (which we actually both attended about forty years apart) gave up (American) football at that time because of the cost, but had a pretty thuggish soccer team in those days. Turns out my uncles liked to play an aggressive defense. grin

So this isn’t unprecedented.

Comment #73: catfood  on  06/14  at  03:58 PM

There’s another factor, too: the international game develops talent early, so players with a professional future are signing contracts in their mid-teens, making the idea of college sport—a weird Victorian holdover that carries political implications—pretty much moot.

There’s a dark and exploitative side to that. A lot of kids are spat out by the English football club academy system, for example. There is a lot of wreckage left in the wake of ‘talent development’. Your college system, for all its faults, at least offers players alternatives.

Comment #74: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood  on  06/14  at  04:02 PM

“this game ... originated with the South American Indians and instead of a ball, they used to use the head, the decapitated head, of an enemy warrior.”

I love the implication that Europeans have never done anything like this.  Because only brown people have ever drunk from the skulls of their enemies, put their enemies heads on pikes as an example for all, or committed ritualistic human sacrifice.

Soccer has always been a better workout in PE than American football.  Unless you’re friggin’ Joe Montana, you’re not getting a workout playing that game.  Oh, how I hate football.

Comment #75: keshmeshi  on  06/14  at  04:02 PM

I love the implication that Europeans have never done anything like this. 

Yeah, like, European settlers would never leave the body of a slave hanging in chains as a landmark for twenty years or more, put heads on pikes, or anything like that.

Comment #76: Ms Kate  on  06/14  at  04:11 PM

We English are quite proud of the heads on pikes. Thus perish all traitors.

Comment #77: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood  on  06/14  at  04:15 PM

Nash is more than a fan…

Sure, I’m aware of all of that. All I’m saying is that there’s a lot of affinity between the two sports and their fanbases.

Comment #78: Jerry Vinokurov  on  06/14  at  04:20 PM

Morgantown, WV, I’m looking at you. Yes, you.

You leave my couch burning friends to the south alone!  They did put an ordinance in prohibiting couches on the porch and the same was applied in Pittsburgh now. 

To be honest though, Soccer is a fifth-rate sport in the US and probably always will be.  Not that it isn’t a sport, I don’t deny that I just don’t find it interesting.  Even though I understand the idea that soccer-immigration is happening the trend to migrate towards the NFL/NBA has negated any effect soccer may have made.  Listening to the ESPN commentators both locally and nationally basically have pointed out the reality.  Every four years America gives a damn about soccer for about a month then proceeds to stop caring again.  It has similar numbers to the Olympics. 

What I find interesting is that Soccer is starting to lose ground as the number one sport of the world to *gasp* BASKETBALL!  An equally cheap and basic sport to play and is far more interesting to watch.  There is talk circulating that by the end of the century Basketball could be the number one sport of the world with soccer second and the rest of the varies american and foreign sports below that. 

As for being liberal and liking soccer, I find that argument hard to swallow.  Bad stereotypes are bad.  If anything I see soccer lovers tending to be more euro-centric whites who want to feel pride for their “old” country and such.  We don’t have a large Hispanic community I see daily or deal with often so I can’t fairly describe what they watch or play.  I’m guessing from what Hispanic families I do see they do watch soccer but also Baseball.  Also it seems that the average suburban white child plays far more soccer than his poorer compatriots.  If anything pee-wee football is big in the black neighborhoods around Pittsburgh and baseball is big in the outer-exurbs/rural zones if the local sportscasters have any truth to what they say.

Comment #79: Xeranar  on  06/14  at  04:22 PM

Mhoag @49:

The ancient Maya did sometimes put the skulls of sacrificed persons INSIDE the balls, so the bounce was preserved.  And in the ball game, the losing team or its captain was sometimes sacrificed, so I guess he could wind up donating his head to the next game.

Comment #80: Ruviana  on  06/14  at  04:34 PM

Ruviana: Gives a whole new meaning to “header,” eh?

Comment #81: Bitter Scribe  on  06/14  at  04:41 PM

“We English are quite proud of the heads on pikes. Thus perish all traitors.”

Remember the Blackadder episode where Queenie and Nursie run off to see if there’s any “good heads” on display at “Traitor’s Cloister?”

I suspect the wingnuts’ hatred of soccer mostly has to do with the reflective loathing of any and all things European that they’ve been wallowing in ever since Bush Junior was President. Now that I think of it, the whole rotten attitude seems to conflict with the American far right’s traditional caterwauling about maintaining their “European heritage” whenever issues of Immigration come up…Still, the bastards have absolutely no problem with trampolining from position to position and then flip-flopping back again, with all the promiscuity of an alley cat in heat. Consistency ain’t their forte.

Comment #82: John D.  on  06/14  at  04:46 PM

I especially like the implication that soccer needs validation from Real Americans. Every four years, we get hand-wringing analysis of whether “Americans will finally get soccer” on one side and a lot of frothing anger about it not being an “American sport” from right-wingers. And the rest of the world shrugs and gives the big question of Is Soccer American and Will They Learn to Like It? all the attention it deserves - none.

I think the teabagging crowd is extra rage-y about soccer this year because it represents what they hate (immigrants, women, fun, whathaveyou). In twenty years Real America (tm) will not exist and they know it. The vision of immigrant hordes kicking a round ball across gridiron markings is just a small part of their worst nightmare.

Comment #83: elena  on  06/14  at  04:56 PM

I imagine many a closeted teabagger gets frothy at the mouth seeing all those beautiful men in excellent physical condition.

It makes old white European men fairly bothered too apparently; else why the new rule that whipping your shirt off after a goal gets you an instant yellow card?

I saw Ronaldo get kicked off the pitch for it earlier this year. What on earth could be the reason for that other than your less-than-secure strait men being bothered by how smoking hot the dude is?

Comment #84: Sarcastro  on  06/14  at  05:04 PM

Remember the Blackadder episode where Queenie and Nursie run off to see if there’s any “good heads” on display at “Traitor’s Cloister?”

They still do that on Saturday nights in Salford.

Comment #85: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood  on  06/14  at  05:18 PM

You’d think they’d love the chance to root for the palest white people (England, Netherlands) over every type of dark people would give the wingnuts a collective stiffie

I don’t know about the Netherlands team because I don’t follow them, but England is not that pasty. Their captain (Rio Ferdinand - well, he’s out because of a knee injury, but he was supposed to be captain) is black, and some of their best players are as well. (Ashley Cole! And I have to mention Aaron Lennon, Ledley King and Jermain Defoe as English players because they are Spurs.) No Asian people though, IIRC. :/

Oh, and aren’t soccer moms one of the most important parts of the electorate?

Just sayin’.

This. The soccer mom is such a big deal in every election because she’s quintessentially American.

Comment #86: Rebecca  on  06/14  at  05:43 PM

Isn’t this really just another example of conservatives being a bunch of haters?  Isn’t this what they live for, to belittle/hate/put down things to make them feel somehow superior?  These jackasses always say that the end-all-be-all of sports is the Super Bowl.  Outside of our country, no one cares about American gridiron football.  The worldwide viewing audience of the World Cup is in the billions.  The NFL would commit a federal crime to get that kind of exposure.  But to conservatives, the Super Bowl is it and nothing else counts.

I’ve long given up on convincing people that soccer is a fun sport.  I love it (and have since USA94), but a lot of my friends could not care less if the US isn’t playing.  And that’s fine.  I don’t care about NASCAR, but I appreciate that is makes money for ESPN/FOX/TNT.  Too bad conservatives can’t be as open.

Comment #87: bouj  on  06/14  at  05:48 PM

Really interesting discussion. Just a few points I wanted to add:

Lee B-W: significant reasons for the lack of a college system in football/soccer are 1) The internationalism of soccer makes the synchronisation of such a system impossible, and 2) Soccer players tend to peak quicker than american football or baseball players, thus making a greater case for the top players to join the top teams more quickly. And cricket hasn’t been a working class game for decades, except among Asian immigrants.

Xeranar: That’s a very Amero-centric view. I’ve not seen any evidence that basketball is growing to anywhere near that rate around the world (though if you can point the way to some evidence I’d be curious to see it) and that, combined with soccer’s current growth in Africa and Asia and its centrality to so many cultures (particularly in Latin America and Europe) mean it’s unlikely to be overtaken any time soon. And the popularity among wealthy middle class kids mean a well-organised school league system which eventually means greater access for poorer kids. It won’t happen overnight but it will grow as a working class sport in the US.

Sarcastro: Ironically, I’m pretty sure the shirt removing rule was actually brought in after several players took off their shirts to reveal not bare chests but T-shirts with inflammatory slogans on them, leading to fears of crowd trouble (though prudishness maay have also played a part).

Comment #88: Stubborn Kind of Fellow  on  06/14  at  06:04 PM

I watched US-England in a bar in Brooklyn.  Absolutely packed.  Couldn’t even move.  We won’t even get into what it smelled like.

Comment #89: Thlayli  on  06/14  at  06:26 PM

Anybody ever play the game Grand Thef Auto: San Andreas? (Bear with me here) One of the radio stations had a kind of sports program called the Tight End Zone with Derrick Thackery.

Anyway, at one point soccer is mentioned. Thackery, being the caricature of the typical NFL obsessed American fan denigrates it. Then he goes on to say something like ‘Your game is confusing and we don’t win at it!’ And that pretty much summed up the US sentiment about the game. That basically any sport that isn’t popular here is because it doesn’t have immediately understandable rules. And as such, must be a terrible sport because US teams are generally not good at it.

When Liddy talks about ‘American Exceptionalism’, that’s what he’s really talking about. It isn’t so much a point as ‘The sports we invented are better!’, but more ‘The sports we aren’t good at suck!’ I said it in another thread, but listen to your local sports broadcasters. Typically radio. Are they at least being deferential to the sport or are they belittling it at every opportunity? Just try getting a sportcaster job in the US and saying spiteful things about the NFL…

Oh, and as for how popular the game is becomming? Yes, it’s growing in popularity. But just how packed are the same bars for games like Paraguay and Slovakia? Japan and Camaroon? I would expect a bar to be taken over by the US playing a game in the World Cup. But I wouldn’t expect the same bar to be filled with people paying rapt attention to Algeria and Slovenia.

So there’s still some American Exceptionalism at work. It might just be patriotism, but what do you think might happen if the best they can do against Slovenia is a draw? Especially if England wins.

I’ve been a fan of the sport for 30 years. And every World Cup, nothing really changes. Interest rises so long as the US is playing. Then, when they’re gone, it plummets.

(Damn! That was depressing.)

Comment #90: Santa Claustrophobia  on  06/14  at  06:42 PM

I thought the shirt-removing rule was to prevent time wasting? It’s idiotic, Like many other FIFA ideas: now players whip off or pull up the kit to reveal a tshirt under it, often with a message (a la Kaka and his I Belong to Jesus shirt). I guess that’s not delaying the game?

The basketball claim is plain silly. Anyone can play street soccer. Not everyone will do it well, but everyone can participate. You can have 20 kids chasing a round object on any street in the world at any given time. And you don’t even need a proper football (I’ve read stories of people making balls out of whatever trash they could find, tshirts, etc). I can’t imagine basketball without a net or a ball that could be bounced. And unlike footy, not everyone can participate; you need at least some skill, height, etc.

Also, the Netherlands national team is fairly pasty, but not as pasty as you’d expect.

Comment #91: elena  on  06/14  at  06:50 PM

Santa, I watched the first half of the England-US match in Dupont Circle in DC. It was so packed we went to a bar. Packed to the gills, with folks standing outside in a throng trying to see through the windows. And it’s not just this game. The bars there got special dispensation to open for early games. There were guides to where to watch in the papers, and it seemed that every place that had TVs and served alcohol and food, from sports bars to fancy French restaurants, was showing the games. I read an article that said that the WC is huge for DC bars and that the bars did great business during the last cup. And it didn’t have a US-England game. So I think in any major metro area, most games featuring major teams will be well attended by bar patrons. But let’s face it, Algeria-Slovenia isn’t a draw for anyone who is not a die-hard.

To me, it seems the momentum is shifting, just seeing people in national team shirts everywhere, new soccer pubs opening, regular bars and restaurants showing games, etc. When I moved to the states (NYC) in 1991, you could get a ManU, Arsenal, or Liverpool game on pay-per-view and that was about it for English-language options. Now I have two channels showing 5-6 leagues + cup and European competitions and news and review shows. ESPN is showing la liga games and updating on scores. It’s definitely not how it used to be.

Comment #92: elena  on  06/14  at  07:20 PM

So Glenn Beck has never seen baseball riots, eh? Well, let’s see, he was only 10 years old when the Indians had Ten-Cent Beer Night, which resulted in a riot and a forfeit, so he couldn’t have been drunk or on drugs yet. But he was 15 when the Tigers had Disco Demolition Night, which ALSO resulted in a riot and a forfeit, so he might very well have drunk that one out of his memory.

Comment #93: pdennison  on  06/14  at  08:18 PM

@Dr. Squid / #51:

Soccer as a sport that every kid played wasn’t around when I was a kid. The kids that belonged to soccer clubs tended to be rich insufferable snobs.

That’s lacrosse now.  IMHO that sport has gained in popularity among suburbanites in inverse proportionality to the influx of actual Latinos into the USA and into youth soccer culture.  Hence lacrosse becomes the youth sport that can be both less dangerous than football and less ethnic than basketball or soccer.  Pet theory of mine, no actual demographics to back up any of these claims.

Comment #94: FlipYrWhig  on  06/14  at  08:40 PM

In reality, of course, soccer was invented in England.

But they did use a severed head. Which is AWESOME!

In all seriousness, most cultures came up with some variation of the “Kick the ball at a spot the other player(s) are trying to keep it out of” game. Probably why formalized soccer spread so widely, because the basic concept was familiar to pretty much everybody.

Comment #95: Mike Crichton  on  06/14  at  08:41 PM

elena, I don’t doubt it’s growing. I just doubt its ability to grow enough. NASCAR exploded in the last decade and a half. And it can’t be said to be an easy thing to get into. But the rules are simple enough: Drive very fast and turn left (HAHA).

But I’m just a bitter rugby fan. So don’t mind me. (Though I still expect interest to die off if the US doesn’t make it out of their group.)

My bitterness does compel me to point out that much of the expansion in cable coverage of international sports is the monumental increase in the number of stations with time to fill. Call me when the MLS gets significant coverage when it isn’t the signing of an aging superstar or the finals.

Comment #96: Santa Claustrophobia  on  06/14  at  08:48 PM

The humble comma is the punctuation mark of the people, not like that elitist period, which claims to be the be-all, end-all of everything.  The more commas, the better!…

Mike, this is a feminist blog.  Please take your male-centric obsessions elsewhere.

Perhaps you wouldn’t be concerned, but half the human race would find a missing period to be a major concern…

Comment #97: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  06/14  at  09:06 PM

I love the implication that Europeans have never done anything like this.  Because only brown people have ever drunk from the skulls of their enemies, put their enemies heads on pikes as an example for all, or committed ritualistic human sacrifice.

I’ve managed to boggle the easily excited by casually claiming that cannibalism was a wide-spread practice in Victorian England.  And then proving it.

Comment #98: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  06/14  at  09:14 PM

That’s a very Amero-centric view. I’ve not seen any evidence that basketball is growing to anywhere near that rate around the world (though if you can point the way to some evidence I’d be curious to see it) and that, combined with soccer’s current growth in Africa and Asia and its centrality to so many cultures (particularly in Latin America and Europe) mean it’s unlikely to be overtaken any time soon. And the popularity among wealthy middle class kids mean a well-organised school league system which eventually means greater access for poorer kids. It won’t happen overnight but it will grow as a working class sport in the US.

I would have to wrangle around ESPN to try and dig up the NBA facts.  They were pointing out their associated league in Europe and Asia are growing exceptionally fast.  By basically just the need to erect a basket & solid ground (as our poorer societies get more urban this will become more common.)  I personally take soccer on the same level as baseball, it’s a sport, I welcome children to play if it pleases them and by all means let it roam free and be.

I dislike soccer but for just the sheer lack of interest to watch and to play it.  I played it in HS & college on an inter-mural level and I only did it because it was there and friends liked to do it.  I would much rather play deck hockey or basketball.  I think talking about soccer as anything more than just another sport is unfair to soccer and to people.  To give it some sort of prole class heroism is a bit much.  You could apply the same to the late 19th century football, current basketball in most inner-cities, and baseball in rural zones.  Each has their place as the sport of the poor but in America the sheer fact that most families can afford basic equipment and we have organizations that buy gear for kids just about every organized sport is accessible but Hockey.

Comment #99: Xeranar  on  06/14  at  09:18 PM

But I wouldn’t expect the same bar to be filled with people paying rapt attention to Algeria and Slovenia.

So it wasn’t just “wear brightly colored pajama tops” day at the various watering holes that I passed on my way home from work?  And they weren’t packed to capacity for the afternoon matches?

(rubs eyes)

Comment #100: Ms Kate  on  06/14  at  10:10 PM

Santa, I think we have different goals (ha!) here. It sounds like you’d like footy to get big here so that MLS gets more popular, the players get better, and the national team begins to do well. All I want is good coverage of the leagues I watch, which are basically any league but the MLS, as I find the style of play boring. I’m one if those bitter euros who would hate to see the US dominate this sport. smile So, the current level of popularity is perfect for me!

Xeranar, we get it, you don’t like soccer. That still doesn’t make your argument true. Yes, I’ve also seen the items on the growth of basketball outside of US. But even in Spain, where it is popular, its nowhere near the popularity of football. And yes, most American families can afford the equipment. That does nothing for the growth of basketball in, say, South Africa, where most families can’t. And where there already are two other major sports with a hold on the hearts and minds. Just like footy will never displace major American sports here, American sports will never displace football in Latin America, Europe, or Africa. We don’t have to all like the same things.

And to say that football does not have class and political aspects is so ignorant it’s frankly laughable. If you’d like to educate yourself, you can look at the rugby/football divide in South Africa, the histories of English clubs, or look into the background of a few rivalries, like Rangers/Celtic or Barcelona/Real Madrid. Many football clubs in England were founded by working class men as factory teams (see Newton Heath aka Manchester United), and even though the “proles” as you call them have been priced out of the game, football is still a part of class identity. Not to romanticize the game, but class, race, and politics have yet to stop being a part if it.

Comment #101: elena  on  06/14  at  10:13 PM

i’m quite depressed that just as more americans are tuning in to the world cup, they are suffering the incessant drone of the vuvuzelas.

for me, they really destroy a big part of the game, which is the crowd reaction to play, and the chanting, and cheering.

anecdotally, greeks are apparently really into basketball (because they win in the european leagues).  i was just there, and they were shamrocked jerseys everywhere.

i really only got interested in soccer because my wife (who’s italian) insisted we watch the world cup in 2006, and we also “simulated” many of the real games with some friends on the playstation, which was great fun and did help me learn (a little) about the game.

also,

INTER.

Comment #102: ochlocrat  on  06/14  at  11:41 PM

I just flew home today and sat behind an obnoxious middle-aged upper-income white guy (aka “real American”) who kept yammering on about soccer to his middle-aged white guy neighbor, who really seemed to enjoy the soccer discussion, but otherwise seemed to wish the guy would shut up. Also, I left a hotel in a little bass-ackward city in South Carolina this morning, where the TV in the breakfast area was broadcasting the match between Denmark and the Netherlands (I think - I’m sure one was Denmark at least) instead of its usual “Fox and Friends.”

So pity Glenn Beck. His pool of real Americans is shrinking rapidly.

Comment #103: Phoebe Fay  on  06/14  at  11:49 PM

And to say that football does not have class and political aspects is so ignorant it’s frankly laughable. If you’d like to educate yourself, you can look at the rugby/football divide in South Africa, the histories of English clubs, or look into the background of a few rivalries, like Rangers/Celtic or Barcelona/Real Madrid. Many football clubs in England were founded by working class men as factory teams (see Newton Heath aka Manchester United), and even though the “proles” as you call them have been priced out of the game, football is still a part of class identity. Not to romanticize the game, but class, race, and politics have yet to stop being a part if it.

Did somebody just pull the “you’re ignorant” card on the internet?  Truly the world has reached new lows!  I was talking strictly in America for the aspect of the prole heroism and the fact that so many leftists who do love it seem to want to put it on a pedestal which I away from simply because I don’t want to politicize a game. 

I do actually understand the fundamental ties that sports have to politics, race, and class.  I just try and remove it from the argument when we’re debating reasons to “like” or “dislike” a game.  We’re not discussing the history of it on a socio-political level, you were trying to justify liking it or reasoning to like by the nature of it being a game for the poor, which is a classically American ideal. 

But since we’re debating apples and oranges at this point.  I’ll leave you to your soccer love.  Just refrain from calling people ignorant on the matter because some of us don’t follow the european league in great detail.  The most I learned about the background of Soccer was from a book I recently read about the history of all sports that was euro-centric.  Which is exactly where your argument lead you when I was strictly speaking of Soccer in the US on that matter.

Comment #104: Xeranar  on  06/15  at  01:16 AM

elena, no, not really. I mean, I’m indifferent to whether or not the US (as a team…or whatever) gets dominant at football. (Just so long as it isn’t Brazil or Italy… Diving wussies) What I’d like is for the US to either learn to appreciate the sport or, failing that, stop making a big deal out of it.

Half of the attention the World Cup gets seems to stem from some kind of wonderment that the rest of the world is different. Like soccer is some kind of alien sport that only rears its head every four years. Like the Olympics, nobody other than fans cares about the nuances of the more obscure sports.

I’d just like to be able to turn on the radio this time every four years and not hear the same jokes about how, compared to anything else, it’s dull being made by people who proudly admit their disinterest in learning about it. (Hey! That sounds familiar…)

Comment #105: Santa Claustrophobia  on  06/15  at  02:06 AM

<blockquote>Lee B-W: significant reasons for the lack of a college system in football/soccer are 1) The internationalism of soccer makes the synchronisation of such a system impossible, and 2) Soccer players tend to peak quicker than american football or baseball players, thus making a greater case for the top players to join the top teams more quickly. And cricket hasn’t been a working class game for decades, except among Asian immigrants.<blockquote>

My comment on the college system was more that it was easier on the people that transit through it—by at least paying lip service to the notion of education—than youths who go through the English football academies. There’s lots of reasons why a college system hasn’t arisen in the UK, and in my view that’s largely to do with class and money. Even varsity rugby cannot really be considered a college system because until recently Union was an amateur sport.

I disagree about cricket not being a working class game. In countries like India and Australia it most certainly does touch all classes. In other countries it is more complex. For example, in South Africa there is a persistent class/race element, just as in rugby. In England it’s more a town/country divide, which undoubtedly has class overtones. But there’s still a substantial working class support at county level. Yorkshire is a good example of how cricket is nurtured in city schools, as is Essex.

Comment #106: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood  on  06/15  at  02:26 AM

The commentators manage to consistently maintain an excitement level that I usually associate with championship victories and reactor core breaches.

It may be that my head is swimming in Vicodin, but I just envisioned LeVar Burton tapping the left side of his chest and shrieking in Spanish from the press box.  Nice reference, Andy.  Luv ya, man.

Comment #107: Sam Holloway  on  06/15  at  03:41 AM

“Soccer as a sport that every kid played wasn’t around when I was a kid. The kids that belonged to soccer clubs tended to be rich insufferable snobs” said one commenter
here in argentina the “snobs” play rugby. a generalization, of course, but is true that most of the rugby players came from the richest parts of Buenos Aires, and on the contrary, futbol players came from the poorest parts.
if you are from San Isidro, you will play rugby like Pichot did ,(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agustín_Pichot)and if you are from Fuerte Apache you will play futbol with your mates in a “potrero”. (like Tevez http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Tévez)
And this world cup we have Maradona, and here there is a small war between the ones that adore him and the ones (like many journalists) that dislike him and want to see him failed.
Maradona the “épater le bourgeois” king, embodies all what people like that Dan Gainor hate.

Comment #108: ceci  on  06/15  at  09:41 AM

Good points all, Santa! I’ll be honest, part of the reason I don’t want US to do well is that attitude you describe. It’s that bit of resentment that remains, even though I know the players and the fans don’t treat the game that way, but the rest of the country does.

With you on Italy and Brazil. It’s not even the diving (they have nothing on Ronaldo), it’s that they are both so dull. Italy cynical and dull. And Brazil insufferable about the whole “beautiful game” thing as if everyone hasn’t noticed how dull they’ve become.

Comment #109: elena  on  06/15  at  11:40 AM

“You’d think they’d love the chance to root for the palest white people (England, Netherlands) over every type of dark people would give the wingnuts a collective stiffie, but alas, it’s not to be.”

You might be surprised to hear that we have quite a few non-pale non-white people here in England! 

Here’s a recent line-up:
http://img.skysports.com/09/11/496x259/England-Squad-World-Cup-2010_2389087.jpg

Looks like a 45% non-pale team to me, with a non-white captain of all things!

(I’m English, working class, from Manchester (major footballing city) with a long family history of football support and I can’t stand it, sorry.)

Comment #110: Larrabee  on  06/15  at  01:24 PM
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