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Next entry: A Rhetorical Battle Democrats Might Actually Win Previous entry: Don’t be a slut, you prude

The wingnut plot against quad development and regular bowel movements

Via Atrios, I see that full-blown brainless resentment as a campaign strategy is well under way in 2010.

Republican gubernatorial candidate Dan Maes is warning voters that Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper’s policies, particularly his efforts to boost bike riding, are “converting Denver into a United Nations community.”

“This is all very well-disguised, but it will be exposed,” Maes told about 50 supporters who showed up at a campaign rally last week in Centennial.

Maes said in a later interview that he once thought the mayor’s efforts to promote cycling and other environmental initiatives were harmless and well-meaning. Now he realizes “that’s exactly the attitude they want you to have.”

Yep, the argument is that programs that look like they’re about reducing emissions and reducing dependence on fossil fuels—-as well as getting people to be healthier by getting more exercise—-are in fact a liberal plot to have the UN take over our cities.  Apparently, starting with those out West, because what you want when you’re plotting a takeover of a country is to go after cities that are well-armed and spread out.  Though I suppose the paranoid right wingers could just say that’s why they have to take over the cities by stealthy hippyness, because warfare isn’t gonna get it done.

There’s some jibber-jabber paranoid explanation for why bike programs are secret UN plots to destroy America.

Maes said in a later interview that he was referring to Denver’s membership in the International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives, an international association that promotes sustainable development and has attracted the membership of more than 1,200 communities, 600 of which are in the United States.

Whatever the bullshit explanation is basically irrelevant, of course.  The point is to stoke resentment against bicyclists, and then transfer that resentment to the Democrats.  Bicyclists and pedestrians are easy hate objects, because they make car-dependent people feel insecure, especially if those car-dependent people are using their car even in situations where they know they could walk it or bike it.  If you doubt this, I highly recommend actually getting a bike and trying to commute with it—-even if you can’t go to work, try going to the store or to nearby occasions with it—-and you’ll find that there are lot of mindlessly angry drivers out there who take your bicycle as an affront to their manhood or something.  Yes, even if you obey every traffic law and are scrupulous about staying out of the way (which I was when I lived where I biked everywhere—-now I just walk).


I’m beginning, however, to think that conservatives are out to kill each other off, which seems to be a poor campaign strategy, but it’s getting harder to deny.  There’s an increasing tendency with conservatives to adopt a pious attitude about having really bad health habits, namely eating a bunch of crap and refusing to move your body more than 10 feet without fossil fuel-based assistance.  Bicyclists, vegetarians, and arugula munchers belong in the cast of villains for the right.  It’s a particularly troubling trend, since we all have to share health care costs at the end of the day.

Take, for instance, this hilarious post at Sadly, No! making fun of one Julie Gunlock, who appears to be kept up at nights with worry that somewhere someone poor might be enjoying a healthful and tasty meal.  She rails against soup kitchens that serve food that she thinks sounds fancy, like pumpkin soup or blueberries with sour cream.  And she thinks that free lunch programs should be cut off because they somehow prevent parents from feeding their own children, hiding behind the claim that no cafeteria could compete with the nutritional value of a meal put together by someone who can’t afford enough food to feed their children three squares a day.

Sadly Naut Tintin suggests that Gunlock is hardly the person to be talking about food in such detail, or claiming knowledge of how best to put together nutritious meals, because she writes a food column where she suggests melting your leftover cheese platter over some pasta and calling that dinner.  Perhaps someone in the Wal-Mart frame of mind doesn’t realize that there are “seasons” and that they have “surpluses” that might explain why a soup kitchen has a lot of donated ingredients that they turn into things like pumpkin soup.  It’s a tempting explanation. 

But between this and the bicycles-are-a-UN-plot nonsense, I have an alternate theory: Perhaps this is part of the larger wingnut assault on Americans making it to age 40 without a couple heart attacks under their belts.  After all, Dick Cheney had his first at 37, and who are we to argue with greatness?  Dan Maes might be in the division of the secret wingnut anti-health forces that concentrates on making sure that no one gets their hearts near their target heart rate.  (With a big assist from the anti-sex brigade.)  Gunlock is part of the Permanent Constipation division, focusing on a goal of making sure that no American craps more than once a week. 

Red states do more poorly on health outcomes than do blue states.  You can come up with all sorts of explanations for why the may be so, starting with the fact that red states are often less wealthy, more averse to unionization that gets people better health care plans, etc. 

Or maybe it’s just that the widespread wingnut assault on target heart rates and regular bowel movements is working out really well where they have a lot of influence.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 11:21 AM • (131) Comments

Apparently, starting with those out West, because what you want when you’re plotting a takeover of a country is to go after cities that are well-armed and spread out.

And start in the backyard of the high school. If Red Dawn teaches us anything, it’s warfare.

Comment #1: stonebiscuit  on  08/04  at  12:18 PM

If it’s a UN plot, that means I don’t have this
to look forward to from my Swiss Overlords.  Pity.

Comment #2: 3letterjon  on  08/04  at  12:20 PM

These rightwingers are effin’ nuts.

Comment #3: Lexi  on  08/04  at  12:21 PM

A neighbor of mine recently got hit by a car which took off. He broke 4 ribs and looked like he got beat up, but he’s recovering nicely. He told me that he was mostly mad that he got injured badly enough that he couldn’t go after the driver.

I don’t get it.

I was reading an article today about Dodd’s Sustainable Community Planning bill, and it contained this quote:

“I think the overall philosophy is wise,” said Sen. Bob Bennett, R-Utah. “But I will be voting against it.”

This is where we are now. Unbelieveable. I believe if we elected a council of middle school students, they would be more productive.

Comment #4: maurinsky  on  08/04  at  12:30 PM

I forgot to mention that my neighbor was riding his bike when he got hit.

Comment #5: maurinsky  on  08/04  at  12:30 PM

Lexi, this is well-establsihed. The problem is that there are enough of them to inflict real levels of harm on practically everybody. A lot of work of liberals, well non-conservatives in general, in American politics involves neutralizing rightist craziness.

  Practically, everything is un-American to the rightists unless it involves driving SUVs short distances to buy a head of lettuce. Eventually they are going to restart HUAC and bring critical mass before them for testimony.

Comment #6: Lee  on  08/04  at  12:30 PM

I’m starting to imagine that wingnuttery is largely built on completely unfocused rage being randomly focused on some object or person. I assume Michelle Malkin sits in front of her computer vibrating in catatonic fury until someone directs her attention to something—bicycles, scarves, countertops, what have you—and boom, she pukes up a new column.

Don’t know where it ends. Some wingnut will declare that grass or snow or butterflies or folding chairs or shelf brackets are the new object of Infinite Fury, and CNN will nod sagely and invite them to host their own show…

Comment #7: Scott  on  08/04  at  12:31 PM

Oh for—they can’t even keep their conspiracies straight.

Bicycles are a plot by Red China (chairman Mao called it the most perfect form of transportation). Not New World Order U.N.

Comment #8: Mighty Ponygirl  on  08/04  at  12:35 PM

Right wingers were uniformly against the transfat bans, because they’ll defend to the death the right of food processors to increase people’s cholesterol.

Comment #9: Hector B.  on  08/04  at  12:38 PM

Maybe we should put off national healthcare until more wingers manage to kill themselves with bad health habits. 

Also, I’d love nothing more than to start a store catering to the Real American Lifestyle.  You know, get some “Bikes Are For Sissies” or “Meat, It’s What’s For Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner” shirts in size XL, XXL, XXXL, and XXXXL.  Maybe I could get Free Republic, Drudge & etc to link to me…

Comment #10: Andy  on  08/04  at  12:39 PM

Scott: Thats some pretty spot on and scarely accurate analysis. To elaborate it, the wingnuts seem to focus their range about something they view as anti-what ever their identity is and go all out against it. In this case, the wingnuttery is against bycicles because its cosmopolitan and European and approved by the United Nations.

Comment #11: Lee  on  08/04  at  12:45 PM

“And start in the backyard of the high school. If Red Dawn teaches us anything, it’s warfare.”

As I recall, the opening sequences of Red Dawn were about UN transports dropping bikes into Colorado by parachute, which caused mass panic.  And then, thanks to government mandated auto registration, all cars and trucks and SUVs were taken from their owners so they couldn’t be used to overthrow the UN-instituted socialist government — with Michael Moore as Dictator for Life.

Folks, what’s happening now in Colorado is just a foretaste of what’s to come under Obama’s CommunoFascist, one-world government.  This is what we get when we don’t take seriously the fictional and paranoid scenarios presented in ‘80s mass entertainment.  No nation in history has survived after bicycles become an important means of transportation!

I hear that Obama is working with Iran to develop Bicycles of Mass Destruction.  These BMDs will be used to completely eliminate all freedom and liberty in the USA!

Wake up you fools!  Pay attention to what the liberals all around us are doing!

We must stop this insanity!  Support only Teabagger political candidates or suffer the fate of all liberal nations!...

Comment #12: MikeEss  on  08/04  at  12:48 PM

@Mighty Ponygirl Exactly!  Those 400 bicycles in Denver are RED after all.

It’s funny, I moved to Salt Lake City recently and the only times that people have been rude to me is when I’m biking.  They’re always yelling from their cars for me to bike on the sidewalk, even when I’m biking on the far right side of a four-lane road.  It’s especially crazy because the city actually prohibits you from biking on the sidewalk in the center of town because the pedestrian traffic is so heavy.  It just makes me want to bike more, though, so they get used to bikers.

Comment #13: LizSpigot  on  08/04  at  12:55 PM

You see, people in cars are contributing to the economy; they’re driving to their jobs, or to their twenty-minute lunch at a drive-through because they don’t have a scheduled lunch break, which is the way it should be when you work enough. While people in bike helmets at 8:30 am clearly belong to the leisure class and are just getting in the way of hard-working Americans who don’t have time to swan around in spandex pants getting “healthy” at the taxpayer’s expense.

Ambulating in ways that require bodily motion are really clearly coded as leisure activities to a lot of car-centric people; the way some people react to the idea of walking to work or bike commuting is on the level of what I’d expect if I suggested instituting pole dancing on city buses. I think people also get mad at bicyclists because they flout the every-man-for-himself social convention of each individual family enclosed in a special protective steel casing. It really drives home how ridiculous and deadly cars are, and instead of internalizing the idea that they’re driving a hurtling ton of steely death to pick up milk and bread, people externalize their feelings and get mad at the bicyclists for requiring extra care to avoid killing with your car.

Comment #14: purpleshoes  on  08/04  at  12:56 PM

is this guy…not from colorado? o.O people in colorado are ALL about biking when they can’t ski. coloradoans are some fit-ass, outdoor-loving people. where did this guy come from?

Comment #15: chibi  on  08/04  at  12:59 PM

“Practically, everything is un-American to the rightists unless it involves driving SUVs short distances to buy a head of lettuce.”

Lettuce?  Rabbit food?  Real Americans™ don’t eat crap like that.

Drive your SUV to the nearest WalMart SuperCenter for a family pack of ribeyes, the big bag of MatchLight charcoal, and a 24-pack of Budweiser before turning on the NASCAR race?  Hell yeah!

Ride your bike to WholeFoods for some granola and organic arugula before going to the Gay Pride Parade?  Might as well turn your testicles in at the local ACORN office…

Comment #16: MikeEss  on  08/04  at  01:00 PM

Incidentally, I don’t like to let these conversations pass without pointing out the ableism of “everybody should walk to work!”, but it is a fact that areas that are treacherous to bikes are also treacherous to people who use scooters or other assistive devices, and spread-out areas with no public transportation lead to losing your drivers’ license being the final straw in being able to live independently, for example for elderly people. Still, I think there are people in the middle ground of ability who hold onto their cars because they’re not really going to be able to hop on a bike and go zooming off to work. If I didn’t have a city bus, I would have to drive due to persistent joint wonkiness, and I’m young and relatively healthy.

Comment #17: purpleshoes  on  08/04  at  01:03 PM

especially if those car-dependent people are using their car even in situations where they know they could walk it or bike it.

No, they aren’t feeling even a teeny built guilty about using a bike or walking.  They’re just filled with rage at having to share the road at all.

I, myself, get pissed off b/c most bicyclers in Chicago are assholes, but that’s a reasonable reaction.  I really don’t want to hit someone, and when they refuse to obey the rules of the road it makes it difficult for even a diligent driver. 

But people who believe bikes are an evil plot?  Just assholes who don’t want to share the road regardless of the law.  Even if the bikes aren’t affecting them, they get pissed off.

Chicago has a weekly Friday event where 100s of bikers just take to the streets and ride around town.  It screws with traffic a bit, but no more than a fender bender or a Cubs game would.  I always think it’s funny.  No, they aren’t obeying the laws (they are Chicago bikers after all) but at least when there’s hundreds, you don’t have to worry about not seeing someone sneaking up behind you.  They’re also making a lot of noise.

My kids enjoy the craziness, and it’s a silly protest that points out the need for more bike lanes/trails in the city.  Most of the drivers around me get really enraged—and it has nothing to do with feeling guilty about driving instead of biking.  And the rage they express is out of proportion to a small delay…even when the bikers are on the other side of the street I see it.

It’s another case of “This is mine, you can fuck off and die!  I don’t care if you have a logical reason for your behavior, fuck off and die!”

Comment #18: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/04  at  01:16 PM

Speaking of Red Dawn, Hollywood is apparently remaking it with the Chinese as the villains. Can’t really understand why the Chiense would invade the United States. It would hurt them because we really owe them a lot of money and this would prevent the possibility of repayment and cost the Chinese a lot because of the invasion.

  Not that this really matters to the wing-nuts since they are reason immune even if some of them are atheists.

Comment #19: Lee  on  08/04  at  01:19 PM

Oh goodie, one more reason to be so proud I’m a Coloradan. *facepalm*

Comment #20: Phoebe Fay  on  08/04  at  01:24 PM

There was an excellent comment in the Sadly Thread which I noted before coming over here about resentment and class politics going hand in hand. Some people will accept any hardship as long as there’s someone else who has it worse, and would rather demand we take away the perceived perks of others than fight for better circumstances for themselves.

Comment #21: Left_Wing_Fox  on  08/04  at  01:24 PM

I ride my bike a lot and I have dealt with this shit.  But personal anecdotes about any one particular subject aside, when do we reach the end of the batshit crazy?

Pay your doctor with live chickens, repeal the 14th amendment, unemployed people should be drug tested, unemployment insurance is a welfare scam, do away with social security the invisible hand will take care of you when you’re old, cyclists are UN infiltrators, Obama is just like Hitler…

When do Americans take a good luck at what’s lying next to them, do the hungover “OMFG” scream, and chew their own arms off to get away from these nutbags?

When do our media stop taking these nutballs seriously?

Because i don’t think this country is going to last much longer like this.

Comment #22: JennyLI  on  08/04  at  01:39 PM

“When do our media stop taking these nutballs seriously?”

...when it’s no longer profitable. 

As long as there is money to be made pushing insanity, insanity will be pushed…

Comment #23: MikeEss  on  08/04  at  01:46 PM

purple @17: The knee-jerk accusation of abelism is simply misplaced.  I’ve never seen anyone (serious, at least) suggest that *everyone* should walk to work. Always, always, always, it’s about “more” people.  Hell, I rarely even see the word “most” used.

On the contrary to your assumption, the people who really stand to benefit from getting those able out of cars and on their feet or onto bikes are….people with disabilities who need to drive. 

Why? Because I don’t imagine that having a disability makes you suddenly like sitting in all the traffic that is caused when people who don’t have to drive do it anyway.  In fact, one of the usual selling points that we evil hippies trot out when talking about encouraging the use of walking, bicycling, and public transportation is that it reduces traffic jams for those who still have to drive.

Comment #24: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/04  at  01:52 PM

Caren @18: This is a both/and blog.  I agree they don’t want to share the road, but they often especially don’t want to share it with people who they resent for sporting that healthy glow of the well-exercised.

Comment #25: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/04  at  01:53 PM

I generally like bike riding and most riders are safe enough, but some bicyclists on the road are obnoxious, meaning they will dart in traffic, ride through signs, IOW not following the rules of the road. My worst experience was years ago in San Francisco when the weekly Critical Mass ride caused the trolleybus I boarded to remain at the stop where I got on for a considerable time, blocked from moving by wave after wave of riders who didn’t care to stop. I missed a connection due to them, and I Was Being A Good Guy, taking public transit. You think they’d be sympathetic to those on public transit, but apparently not. I wouldn’t be surprised if they knocked down a pedestrian during their many protests. Bike riders can be as fuckheaded as car drivers sometimes.

Comment #26: mndean  on  08/04  at  02:02 PM

Phobe at 20: Boulder, Colorado is a really beautiful city. I traveled cross-country last sumer and visited a friend who moved to Boulder. I feel instantly in love with it. Its a really great place.

Comment #27: Lee  on  08/04  at  02:07 PM

“Matchlight” charcoal?

Real American use lighter fluid.

Real real Americans squirt lighter fluid on smoldering coals, and flip a lit match into the grill to enjoy the resulting mini explosion.

Real real real Americans use gasoline to start their coals.

Comment #28: Hector B.  on  08/04  at  02:15 PM

Every now and again, I find myself thinking that the core of garden-variety conservatism is a personality that doesn’t advance beyond the 8-year-old temper tantrum, “Don’t tell me what to do!”

The unprovoked rage that Amanda points out (drivers angry at cyclists for cycling in plain sight, carnivores pissed off at the presence of a salad bar) is curious in that context, because we’re not literally telling them what to do, we’re just doing our thing in their presence.

But they can’t even stand the mere sight of Gallant behavior, because it’s an affront to their Goofusness.

Comment #29: Cris  on  08/04  at  02:16 PM

This is great. My wife & I pretty much bike wherever we go when we’re running errands. Both bikes having a basket helps immensely when grocery shopping. Also, there are bike trails and wide sidewalks in the areas around our neighborhood. Unfortunately, we do have to drive to work, but are able to carpool. I didn’t know that made me a part of a UN conspiracy to bring about the downfall of the US. Kind of like a spy. Cool!

Comment #30: Mark  on  08/04  at  02:17 PM

“Bicyclists and pedestrians are easy hate objects, because they make car-dependent people feel insecure, especially if those car-dependent people are using their car even in situations where they know they could walk it or bike it.”

I don’t think it has a damned thing to do with making drivers feel guilty or insecure.  The people who pull this shit are just assholes, and being in a multi-ton internal-combustion-driven doom-carriage means that there’s a significant power imbalance between them and the cyclist/pedestrian that they can avail themselves of in order to indulge their assholery.  It’s on the same continuum as cat-calls and other forms of street-harassment.

Comment #31: preying mantis  on  08/04  at  02:20 PM

I’d think that this guy was the most batshit crazy gubernatorial candidate in the U.S., except that I came across this page this morning.

Comment #32: Bitter Scribe  on  08/04  at  02:23 PM

“Real real real Americans use gasoline to start their coals.”

The real good news there is that water from the Gulf can probably be used to replace charcoal as well as lighter fluid.  Great news for those bordering the Gulf.

Just don’t eat seafood from the Gulf…

Comment #33: MikeEss  on  08/04  at  02:25 PM

“The people who pull this shit are just assholes, and being in a multi-ton internal-combustion-driven doom-carriage means that there’s a significant power imbalance between them and the cyclist/pedestrian that they can avail themselves of in order to indulge their assholery.”

This is the stuff that bugs me. 

If I’m driving my Hummer Commando Wagon 8.6 Liter Turbo Limited Edition to work, or riding a Schwinn, there is still only one human being who is being transported from one place to another.  So why is it that so drivers think (all too often) that they have greater rights than the cyclist?  Does being in a Shiny Metal Box automatically make you a more important person than some one on the back of a bike?...

Comment #34: MikeEss  on  08/04  at  02:33 PM

@26, here’s a rewrite to demonstrate why your comment, while it seems harmless, is not helping:

I generally like car driving and most drivers are safe enough, but some bicyclists on the road are obnoxious, meaning they will dart in traffic, ride through signs, IOW not following the rules of the road.

It’s true, but no one ever seems to bring it up when we’re talking about cars.  It’s just one of those little things—-all bicyclists are held to the standard of the worst of them, and that makes it that much harder to create the political atmosphere where the polluting, fitness-reducing cars are favored over the environmentally sound, exercise-generating bicycles.  We need to stop thinking about cars as the natural owners of the road, and therefore bicyclists as interlopers.  If we really thought of the roads as a shared space, the inevitable comment about how some bicyclists don’t know how to drive wouldn’t come up every single time.  If cars were held to that standard, they wouldn’t even be allowed to use the roads.

Comment #35: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/04  at  02:34 PM

You know, it’s amazing how putting decent and interesting food in a soup kitchen or using a bicycle as regular transportation seems to qualify as “elitist”.

I did a review of a book a while back—“The Foodie Handbook” by Pim Techamuanvivit. It’s essentially a collection of her posts from her blog “Chez Pim”, and it discusses the things she likes to eat, the places she’s been, and the people she’s met. The reviews on Amazon showed it to be a book more polarizing than almost any other food book I’ve seen, to the point where there seemed to be a campaign to pothole positive reviews into the ground.

It was somewhat revealing—the negative reviews found Pim to be an immature writer prone to namedropping and rubbing things in people’s faces (not to mention an extreme amount of resentment at the term “foodie”), but I found it exactly the opposite. Yes, there was a certain amount of namedropping, but I found an interesting distinction between “gourmet” and “foodie”—a gourmet says “look what I got to eat” while a foodie says “come here, you have to try this”. In other words, the distinction manifests the same upside-down definition of “elitist = class traitor” that conservatives love to throw around, as if giving poor people decent food was some kind of grand shame. (But then we already knew that the right considers Alice Waters and Jamie Oliver to be evil.)

Comment #36: BrianX  on  08/04  at  02:36 PM

Cris at 29: A post I saw on another blog speculated that American conservatives aren’t reallty conservative but just really vulgar versions of what the 19th century British called Manchester Liberals. Real conservatives are rare and mainly exist in Europe. The poster might have had a point.

Comment #37: Lee  on  08/04  at  02:44 PM

there’s a significant power imbalance between them and the cyclist/pedestrian

On shared trails, sidewalks, etc. cyclists often take advantage of the significant power imbalance between them and pedestrians in the “shit runs downhill” model. While I have escaped injury by deft jumping, etc., a friend was once severely bruised after being run down by a cyclist in Cambridge Mass.

Comment #38: Hector B.  on  08/04  at  02:46 PM

unless it involves driving SUVs short distances to buy a head of lettuce.

Lettuce!!!??  You Commie DFH!  No Real Amurrrikan® eats lettuce!

Comment #39: Eric_RoM  on  08/04  at  02:48 PM

There are certainly a percentage of bicyclists who are sanctimonious and self-righteous twats, rude to both drivers AND pedestrians.  They also tend to be the easiest to spot as they clomp around in their fucking cleats.

Comment #40: Eric_RoM  on  08/04  at  02:54 PM

Brian, conservatives have picked up the term “hipster” and are doing the same number with it.  The hostility towards people who try to stake out their own little pleasures and pursuits, instead of just go with the corporate-defined flow, is overwhelming. The funny thing is the hated yuppies/hipsters/whatevers are usually not anti-corporate so much as anti-gauche.  But even a small willingness to take even the smallest thing—-a tomato, a route to work, an indie label album—-out of the churn of generating profit for a corporation causes this uproar.

Comment #41: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/04  at  02:55 PM

Might as well turn your testicles in at the local ACORN office…

ACORN offices have been closed. They are no longer accepting testicle or testicle-like donations. Testicles can now be dropped off at Nancy Pelosi’s office. Testicle drop window is open 24 hours a day 7 days a week, except for union forced holidays and gay pride parades.

Comment #42: shakahi  on  08/04  at  02:55 PM

There are certainly a percentage of [fill in the blank] who are sanctimonious and self-righteous twats,

Again, this is true of every group of whatever.  Dwelling on it reaffirms the notion that the roads belong to cars, and that bicyclists are there at the cars’ tolerance.

Comment #43: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/04  at  02:59 PM

I think that there is a aspect of bullying involved in the harrassment of cyclists.  The “me and my two ton machine” phallic thing.

I was thinking about that this weekend while biking in Bethpage State Park.  I was noticing how many really hot guys were on the bike trail and what great bodies they had.  Of course you expect muscular and strong legs, but I’m talking all over ripped.  It was kinda like a smorgasbord.  And I thought to myself that one of these out of shape guys in a big-assed SUV might become a little infuriated when passing one of them on the streets.

I mean, I blew kisses and yelled out “text me!” but you know, not everyone might have been affected the same way.

One thing is for sure, if they got out of the trucks or cars, 99% of them would run like the wind rather than get into an actual face-to-face confrontation with most of the people on that bike trail.

Comment #44: JennyLI  on  08/04  at  03:08 PM

“Testicles can now be dropped off at Nancy Pelosi’s office.”

Dammit!  I should have known that…

Comment #45: MikeEss  on  08/04  at  03:08 PM

Amanda, this is a good point that I, personally, have never seen trotted out, and appreciated seeing here.  However, honestly? I do think that a lot of people who are in the middle ground between Really Visibly Disabled and being in tip-top physical condition have a defensive reaction against very fit people suggesting Fitness Things, and while that isn’t all of the bikes-are-the-tools-of-the-antichrist madness we’re seeing here, it helps feed into it. I mean, it’s really easy to look at some whippersnapper who’s never been injured in his/her life talking about the Joys of Active Commutes and think to yourself “Yeah, sure, if I want to get to work a shambling, sweaty wreck and then be awake all night trying not to cry from joint pain, you twerp.” And god knows our culture associates bodily shape and condition with righteousness enough that it’s easy to get really defensive.

Now let’s throw in that, for instance, in my case I’m from “blue state” culture, in which things like recurrent physical pain are seen as problematic and not just a burden of living, and I have health insurance and some spare cash. That means that I go to the doctor when, for instance, I can’t ride a bike without being in pain, and I get physical therapy so that I can become active again. For a lot of other people, that kind of thing is kind of, honestly, seen as an indulgence / admitting weakness / letting down the side. (Ask an injured Boomer. None of them will go to physical therapy, at least none of the ones I’m related to. A lot of them also stop going anywhere that requires walking more than half a block for very related reasons.) So I know that my physical inability to ride a bike can be overcome and that I will one day be able to, with luck. But being paralyzed with resentment that people who have the good luck to be healthy enough to ride a bike are now lecturing you about the polar bears is a fairly common feeling, from my general survey of resentful conservative relatives. I’m not saying that it justifies opposing bike programs; as you point out, no one wins by insisting on ever-longer and more bloody-minded commutes, and if the damn hippies will stop clogging the roadways with their cars and get in a bike lane, that’s just more space for the cranky republican aunts with bad knees to drive their minivans half a mile to the grocery. This is where the zero-sum-game thinking mentioned above comes in.

Comment #46: purpleshoes  on  08/04  at  03:09 PM

Don’t know why people are do down on lettuce, it happens to be a really great vegetable along with carrots, potatos, yams, broccoli, peppers, onions, cucumbers and the rest. Than you have the joys of fruit like apples, organes, pomergranites, grapes, cherries, pineapples, rasberries, and figs. Plus the savory meats like beef, chicken, and vension. Plus fish like salmon and tuna. Eating well is such a joy.

  Meanwhile, American conservatives are really odd when you compare them to European and Asian conservatives. They have all sorts of weird fetishes that European conservatives do not have. European conservatives generally recognzie the benefits of a welfare state for supporting social adhesion, the just socialsit enough theory. The first modern European welfare state was created by Otto Von Bismarck, no leftist was he. American conservatives can’t seem to even grasp the just socialist enough concept. Unless they belong to the Democratic Party. American conservatives have this weird hate of transit for reasons that I can’t get grasp. Opposition to the social safet net has some sort of ideological grounding even if it is erroneous. Opposition to subways and bicycles? Not so much.

Comment #47: Lee  on  08/04  at  03:09 PM

A post I saw on another blog speculated that American conservatives aren’t reallty conservative but just really vulgar versions of what the 19th century British called Manchester Liberals.

That’s a bit of a stretch. If there’s a modern comparison to be made with Manchester Liberals, it’s with neoliberal globalists: open markets (as opposed to mercantilism and protectionism); anti-war and anti-imperialist (bad for business unless you’re an arms manufacturer or oil services company); tolerance of cultural diversity. Not quite applicable to either the GOP establishment (at least in terms of its rhetoric) or the Know-Nothing base, despite the populist and laissez-faire nature of Manchester Liberalism.

“Vulgar,” on the other hand, is dead-on.

Comment #48: Gracchus.  on  08/04  at  03:11 PM

I think this just about covers it.

Comment #49: cynickal  on  08/04  at  03:13 PM

Bicyclists and pedestrians are easy hate objects, because they make car-dependent people feel insecure, especially if those car-dependent people are using their car even in situations where they know they could walk it or bike it.

Let me break this down.  A motorized vehicle can easily accelerate from 0-60 mph in under 8 seconds.  From 0-30 in about 3-4 seconds.  A bicycle can accelerate from 0-60 in maybe 30 or 40 seconds and that is if they have a capable rider and a good speed bike.  From 0-30 in about 14-20 seconds again with a capable rider and a good speed bike.  To share the same 8 foot lane with bicycles and motor vehicles is not only stupid but dangerous.  This is the exact reason why motorists resent bicyclists.  When I see a bicyclist ride by I don’t feel insecure, I just don’t care except to worry that the rider will wobble and fall under my wheels.

It goes back to the dawn of bicycling when they were the speed demons there were hundreds of fatalities because they crashed into pedestrians.  Now they’re the slower ones and risk crashing into vehicles or vehicles crashing into them due to the nature of the acceleration difference and inability to control their portion of the road.  When I see inability to control their portion of the road I mean they are at most a foot or so wide, they tend to ride the shoulder of the lane and generally slower than traffic.  They have no authority to hold their place and create a sort of slow moving traffic hazard if traffic isn’t at a near stand-still because of the speed difference.  I’m more inclined to support super-small displacement motorbikes & scooters because they can atleast keep up with traffic in most cases.

As I read this last comment from Amanda, I hate to be the one to say this but yes, the roads do belong to cars.  They’re 8 feet across have large markings for visibility at high speeds and stop lights and signage at approximately 6 feet or higher.  Everything about road design says car.  I’m not being a snob, I believe all roads should have bike shoulders to give bikes their own safe lane to ride in and in most major suburban centers cutting into the sidewalk by about a foot and a half wouldn’t ruin the world for that lane.  Even in urban centers they could do similar without it ending the world.  But to say that I have some sort of bike envy is ludicrous.  I’m a big guy and it gets cold in Pittsburgh.  I have no desire to ride a bike in December and in the summer I will pull out my trike and ride around but for anything serious, say more than a mile or so, I will take the car just for safety’s sake.

To comment on this, this is about the dying culture of the repressive.  That kind of talk plays to the 40+ crowd.  Imagine if skateboarding continued to grow instead of becoming a subculture, they would be complaining about that too (and in many cities they still gripe.)  Anything new or different from their established way of life is bad.  The UN is now the enemy because it effects their mental way of life.  It is just a massive backlash against the forward progression.  This uptick is so vivid due to a woman in control of the house of reps and a black man in the white house.  If you look at the commercials streaming from the hate mongers they clearly pain that repressive racist and sexist picture.  This talk is all an extension of that.

Comment #50: Xeranar  on  08/04  at  03:20 PM

Xeranar, my town has bike lanes in the power line easements with appropriate signeage and lighting. It’s a good system, and easy enough to expand through eminent domain. The main problem is the funding. But yeah, it keeps bikes and cars from competing at all, especially in areas of downtown where delivery trucks need the margins.

Comment #51: purpleshoes  on  08/04  at  03:23 PM

Dwelling on it reaffirms the notion that the roads belong to cars, and that bicyclists are there at the cars’ tolerance.

The bikists I’m referring to (the twats) are the ones that share neither roads NOR paths, zooming around pedestrians like assholes.  This is a very bike-heavy (and self-righteous) town , and there’s plenty of them.

Comment #52: Eric_RoM  on  08/04  at  03:25 PM

Gracchus: That makes sense. The Manchester Liberals were also really anti-Clerical and big supporters of public education, which that thought was essential. Neoliberal globalists might be the best modern equivalent of the Manchester Liberals.

Comment #53: Lee  on  08/04  at  03:27 PM

Xeranar, my town has bike lanes in the power line easements with appropriate signeage and lighting. It’s a good system, and easy enough to expand through eminent domain. The main problem is the funding. But yeah, it keeps bikes and cars from competing at all, especially in areas of downtown where delivery trucks need the margins.

That is a perfect idea.  In the university zone they have bike lanes cut into where the sidewalks had been 6-7 feet wide before.  Now they’re about 4-5 and it works well.  Asking bikes to compete with motor vehicles is just bound to end up in anger and accidents.  In most cases outside of crowded urban zones there is plenty of room to give a bike lane with some simple paint and paving.  But telling people that is like shoving a knife in their heart apparently.

Comment #54: Xeranar  on  08/04  at  03:30 PM

“The UN is now the enemy because it effects their mental way of life.”

...this is not new by any means.  The UN has been a Reichwing bugaboo from the beginning (try a search like this), as was the UN’s philosophical predecessor The League of Nations...

Comment #55: MikeEss  on  08/04  at  03:32 PM

Last time I biked to work, the dispatcher at the terminal called my supervisor and said “Give her a raise, she had to bike.”

I don’t mind walking the two miles home from work (walking to work is dangerous at 4 AM, cars can’t see me, and I can’t see my feet) in May. In August when it’s 109 with a heat index of 119? No way. At all.

And I’m with purpleshoes. I get there sweaty and saddle sore, drive an 18 wheeler for 8 hours and unload it, then come home even sweatier and more saddlesore? 260+bicycle=pain in the ass.

Comment #56: Angelia Sparrow  on  08/04  at  03:36 PM

chibi asks a really good question and the answer is:  He ain’t from Colorado.  That’s why he doesn’t get it.  He was born in IL and spent most of his life in WI and didn’t move to CO until after he finished school.

Comment #57: Spooky Skeptic  on  08/04  at  03:39 PM

My new home city, Albuquerque, is fairly bike-friendly.  Lots of bike lanes, etc., but I don’t ride to work because a) it’s all uphill and b) I can’t be smellin’ bad when I get here.  But I do walk to the farmer’s market on Saturdays, and to the movies, restaurants and bars.

Comment #58: BetsyTX  on  08/04  at  03:45 PM

All the “well, cyclists are assholes too!” people - the stats are not on your side. As a pedestrian, even if you are on the pavement, you are in more danger from motorists leaving the road and hitting you than you are from cyclists on the pavement. As a motorist, you are endangering cyclists, not the other way round.

I cycle to and from work, and pretty much every day some arsehole in a car will swear at me for obeying the rules of the road. Those arseholes probably include me in their own “bloody cyclists!” rants for actions such as taking my place in a lane rather than hugging the kerb and risking sudden crunchy death from a turning lorry.

Xeranar: “yes, the roads do belong to cars”
And yes, the world does belong to men. I thought we, as progressives, were interested in changing shitty things?

Comment #59: MissPrism  on  08/04  at  03:45 PM

pavement = sidewalk. I was riled up and forgot my US-UK translation.

Comment #60: MissPrism  on  08/04  at  03:47 PM

As a pedestrian, even if you are on the pavement, you are in more danger from motorists leaving the road and hitting you than you are from cyclists on the pavement.

Is this even true in a statistical sense? All I know is that no car has ever driven right at me on a walking trail open to bikes, nor has any car on the sidewalk ever whizzed past me, only inches away, when I was walking exactly where I should have been.

While it’s far from universal, I believe some cyclists follow the “go home and kick the cat” model.

Comment #61: Hector B.  on  08/04  at  03:55 PM

Dan Maes is warning voters that Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper’s policies, particularly his efforts to boost bike riding, are “converting Denver into a United Nations community.”

When crazy is all you’ve got I guess that’s what you go with.  Too bad for Maes that Tancredo has the lock on crazy.  In fact, Maes would be crazy to try and-out crazy Tancredo.  Tancredo is crazier than Crazy Jack Crazy McCrazy - the winner of last year’s crazy competition.

Comment #62: Richard Goblin  on  08/04  at  03:58 PM

Amanda:

I see what you’re saying about “hipster”, although I think a lot of people consider hipsters to be rather superficial. (I really don’t, but that’s me. I also have a “hipster” Second Life avatar that I wear strictly ironically.)

Lee:

Does it make more sense if you think of many conservatives as the sort of people who never outgrew their old treehouses and no-girls clubs? (Seriously, go look up some of the Bohemian Grove coverage (and ignore for the duration that most of it comes through uber-nutjob Alex Jones). Those are grown men acting like little kids playing church or going through those silly ceremonies they have in the Boy Scouts. It’s all about arrested development.

Comment #63: BrianX  on  08/04  at  04:00 PM

Hector: yes, as far as I can tell, it is, in Britain at least. About 40 pedestrians a year are killed while on the pavement, and one every four years or so by a cyclist on the pavement. About 80 times more passenger miles are done by car (a larger percentage of journeys are by bike because bike journeys tend to be shorter). So cars do 80 times more miles, but kill 160 times more pedestrians, making them about twice as much of a danger.

Comment #64: MissPrism  on  08/04  at  04:01 PM

Twice as much of a danger to pedestrians on pavements, that is. Overall, I gather bikes are about 100 times less dangerous than cars.

Comment #65: MissPrism  on  08/04  at  04:03 PM

“Testicles can now be dropped off at Nancy Pelosi’s office.”

Dammit!  I should have known that…

MikeEss, you read and comment at a feminist identified blog.  You read things written by women, African Americans, and [stagewhisper]homosexuals[/stagewhisper] - and not just to rant about them or hatefully troll the comment section.  It’s clear as day to any wingnut why “men” like you or me haven’t kept current on the proper disposal venue for testicles.

Comment #66: libdevil  on  08/04  at  04:16 PM

As I Seattleite I was not aware of Amanda’s definition of hipster. I thought it was always derogatory, typically referring to poorly educated fly-over staters who move to the coasts in hopes of finally feeling “cool” and “cultured.”

I remember the Onion headline “Two hipsters angrily call each other hipster.”

Comment #67: John Joel Glanton  on  08/04  at  04:17 PM

I hate to be the one to say this but yes, the roads do belong to cars.

Pretty much, and the same goes for the sidewalks - bikes and pedestrians don’t mix either.  Cars and bikes are incompatible the same way that bikes and pedestrians are incompatible.  Cars have too much volume, mass, and speed for bikes to share the same road, just as pedestrians have too little speed and bikes too little control to be in the same space.

Bikes need their own infrastructure, that is bike lanes.  Except perhaps in areas like Boston or Manhattan where the roads should just be converted to bike lanes and the cars should be expelled.

So why is it that so drivers think (all too often) that they have greater rights than the cyclist?  Does being in a Shiny Metal Box automatically make you a more important person than some one on the back of a bike?

It’s not a question of “greater rights” it’s a question of bikes and cars/trucks not working well together in the same space.  This is why we have sidewalks for pedestrians and roads for cars.*  Pedestrians and don’t mix with fast, massive vehicles like cars.  Bikes don’t either - they’re too slow and they tend to wobble.  Again, I would argue that bikes need their own infrastructure.

*Assuming you live somewhere that still has sidewalks.

Comment #68: Richard Goblin  on  08/04  at  04:17 PM

hipster discussion also reminds me of this article: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/04/12/selling-out/

Comment #69: John Joel Glanton  on  08/04  at  04:23 PM

I’ve always found the term ‘hipster’ to have the connotation of someone who is trying a little to hard to be hip while failing at it.  For instance, the “hipsters” were the guys who moved into the East Village after it was already hip.  Meanwhile, the people who made it hip (the “vanguard” if you will - the true bohemians) were moving out and likely priced out by the hipsters.

On the other hand, what asshats like David Brooks have done to a perfectly respectable word like ‘bohemian’ - now that chaps my hide.

Comment #70: Richard Goblin  on  08/04  at  04:27 PM

As a pedestrian, even if you are on the pavement, you are in more danger from motorists leaving the road and hitting you than you are from cyclists on the pavement.

Got a link for that?  As a pedestrian, I’ve been hit by bikes on the sidewalk three times (once in Manhattan, twice in DC).  I’ve never had a car come up on the pavement and hit me.  But I suppose I should not trust my own lyin’ experience, eh?

Comment #71: Richard Goblin  on  08/04  at  04:34 PM

Brianx at 63: I suppose that makes sense.

I live in Williamsburg and I struggle to define what a hipster is. My basic definition is I know one when I see one.

Comment #72: Lee  on  08/04  at  04:35 PM

I see that, purple, but it’s impugning motives to people that they don’t have, unless they really are yelling about how a disability shouldn’t be a problem for you.  I think it’s a good time for the “if it’s not about you, it’s not about you” rule when you hear someone suggest that those who can should try to commute in ways that don’t involve a car.  That automatically excludes someone who has a health condition.  Again, since environmentalists in general are good about emphasizing that we need to conserve now so that we don’t run out and hit a catastrophe later, it’s wise to assume (correctly), that one of the catastrophe’s of running out of fossil fuels is how rapidly the loss of affordable private transportation would ruin the lives of disabled folks.

It’s built in to the the argument, when you suggest that those with the resources should try harder.  If every implicit point was made explicit, I think every blog post would be a book, you know?

Comment #73: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/04  at  04:45 PM

“Again, I would argue that bikes need their own infrastructure.”

Not bloody likely, at least in the sense of a totally separate series of “cycleways” that are for bikes only.

Bike paths almost always tend to be attractive to pedestrians, whose presence then makes them all too often as dangerous to ride on as any other pedestrian-filled sidewalk.  (And, BTW, make no mistake:  While it is true that bikes are usually moving much faster than pedestrians, and can therefore cause great harm to pedestrians, the opposite is also true.  No one wins in a collision between bike+rider and walker/runner.)

And even if you could build exclusive bike paths and keep them pedestrian-free, you still have the “last mile” and gaps-between-bike-paths problems.  Just like a freeway probably doesn’t have an off-ramp directly into your company’s parking lot, no separate bike path will always go directly to where you need to go.  Sooner or later you end up riding in the street, sharing the road with cars.  Unless you ride the sidewalks (which I understand is often illegal), which is often more dangerous for a cyclist than riding in the street, in my experience. 

It’s tough being a cyclist…

One more thing:  I found as a cyclist in the street that the added “operating height” as you sit on a bike often gives cyclists a nice advantage in traffic, because you tend to be able to see much further than most drivers.  Add in no auto-body obstructions to vision, and a rider can usually see much better overall than any driver. 

If you use this advantage to go Quicksilver Bike Messenger and slice through traffic like a daredevil — sooner or later you’ll pay a hefty price.  But if you use this advantage to keep yourself more aware of your surroundings and avoid predictable problems, you can ride with the cars pretty safely.  IMHO.  ‘Course I’m not riding in downtown NYC or Chicago or Boston either…

Comment #74: MikeEss  on  08/04  at  04:48 PM

Just wanted to chime in with my own anecdata to say that while I live in a very bikeable city (April/May through October anyways) I have had just as many close calls on my bike when I was in the bike lane as when I wasn’t (and this city has great bike lanes, wide and well marked). Mostly those close calls involved me riding down a stretch, passing a car, car passing me, passing said car again*, then as the car comes up beside me it decides to try and turn right through me like they hadn’t seen me in my bright pylon-orange shirt**...

And the number of vehicles who seem to believe that the bike lane is there to make pulling over to let their passengers out more convenient (and thereby forcing me into traffic and making me wonder if I’m going to get “doored” by the driver… just gah) like the solid white line means something different when it’s on the right than it would if it were on their left… bah… so ya, go on and tell me about the rules of the road that cyclists break and I can probably match you one for one with the motorized vehicles…

But the people who really really annoy me are the ones who think that bike lanes are for runners. Now if they were running safely, facing oncoming traffic, where they could see me even with their ipods at full blast I’d have no problems, but when they’re running on the worst uphill segment of my route, slower than I’m able to bike (but in a section where there’s not a hope in hell I could keep up with cars) when there’s a sidewalk RIGHT THERE! *deep breath*... well they’re the ones who really piss me off.

(if anyone’s interested in biking in Toronto, the free city-provided bike maps are excellent and mark paths, bikelanes, shared roads (wider roads), and easy less trafficed links between them all… I totally recommend)

*at rushhour I can bike home in less time than it takes to drive, and only 5-10 minutes longer than if I took the subway

**strangely, this happens more when I wear that bright orange shirt than when I wear a blue or purple one… like no one can see the giant orange object biking past?!

Comment #75: kodiak  on  08/04  at  04:49 PM

About 40 pedestrians a year are killed while on the pavement, and one every four years or so by a cyclist on the pavement.

What are the non-fatal injury stats? That would seem more relevant.

In the urban area where I’ve lived, bikes are banned from the pavement, and they have to have a bell or horn. None-the-less, I’ve been winged by arseholes who followed neither rule (one actually had the nerve to say “didn’t you hear me say ‘beep-beep’, f*ckhead?”). And don’t get me started on bike messengers.

Bikes do not belong on sidewalks, and major thoroughfares should really have dedicated bike lanes.

Comment #76: Gracchus.  on  08/04  at  04:49 PM

These fuckers must think Portland, OR is as bad as Paris. Paris! Oh, Lordy how we’ve fallen. Wait. Paris is kinda cool.

What is their gripe again?

Comment #77: Keith  on  08/04  at  04:50 PM

If you doubt this, I highly recommend actually getting a bike and trying to commute with it—-even if you can’t go to work, try going to the store or to nearby occasions with it—-and you’ll find that there are lot of mindlessly angry drivers out there who take your bicycle as an affront to their manhood or something.  Yes, even if you obey every traffic law and are scrupulous about staying out of the way (which I was when I lived where I biked everywhere—-now I just walk).

As pointed out in “The Invisible Gorilla”, bike riders may be overestimating this.  Car drivers may, quite literally, not see bikers even when looking at them - and bikers who are driving are more aware of their fellow cyclists.

Comment #78: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/04  at  04:51 PM

Let me break this down.  A motorized vehicle can easily accelerate from 0-60 mph in under 8 seconds.  From 0-30 in about 3-4 seconds.  A bicycle can accelerate from 0-60 in maybe 30 or 40 seconds and that is if they have a capable rider and a good speed bike.  From 0-30 in about 14-20 seconds again with a capable rider and a good speed bike.  To share the same 8 foot lane with bicycles and motor vehicles is not only stupid but dangerous.  This is the exact reason why motorists resent bicyclists.  When I see a bicyclist ride by I don’t feel insecure, I just don’t care except to worry that the rider will wobble and fall under my wheels.

Once again, you’re assuming the position that the public space belongs to motorists first, and everyone else second.  If you believed all people were equal, this wouldn’t bother you so much.  Perhaps you resent their intrusion into what you consider “your” space?

Comment #79: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/04  at  04:52 PM

The bikists I’m referring to (the twats) are the ones that share neither roads NOR paths, zooming around pedestrians like assholes.

Change “bikists” to “drivers”, and you’ll see what you’re forgetting—-there are bad people in every category, but bicyclists and only bicyclists are groused about.  This is because we start from the position of assuming they have to justify themselves, while others do not.

Comment #80: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/04  at  04:53 PM

this is not new by any means.  The UN has been a Reichwing bugaboo from the beginning (try a search like this), as was the UN’s philosophical predecessor The League of Nations…

Technically they look the same but most of the previous craziness has been about the League of Nations usurping national power.  I guess this is still similar in ways but they’re now into the belief it is effecting the way they individually live where as before it was about isolationism.  They blend on some levels but both are ideologically independent when you review them. 

The isolationist attitude is more about “my power is my power, your power is your power, pray they never meet.”  It is also about the clash of cultures and manifest destiny but the isolationist attitude is less specific and is more willing to take new ideas and good inventions from elsewhere long as their government stays away of course for some isolationism took on an ethnicist or racist bent as well. 

This new paranoia is about changing the way we live our lives because change is progressive and the right-wing mentality is about regression.  The more we ride our bikes and what not, the less we’re in our cars.  Course this can also be tied to the local car economy which the manufacturers have little to do with.  Ray Chevrolet in wherever, Statasota has a valued interest in keeping bike lanes from materializing because even if you drive your car to work and use your bike for small errands or just weekend pleasure that is miles not used to run your car into the ground and need maintenance.  Car dealerships are notoriously large supporters in local elections to either get favorable legislation or be rewarded with possible motor pool contracts.  Combine that with gas stations, local repair shops, and an assortment of other car-centered places and you see the uphill battle these types of changes have.

Comment #81: Xeranar  on  08/04  at  04:54 PM

I don’t mind walking the two miles home from work (walking to work is dangerous at 4 AM, cars can’t see me, and I can’t see my feet) in May. In August when it’s 109 with a heat index of 119? No way. At all.

Why are you taking an all-or-nothing attitude when you admit that it’s only a short time of year?  This all-or-nothing attitude is missing the point.  If it’s too hot in August, walk in October-May.

Comment #82: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/04  at  04:55 PM

**strangely, this happens more when I wear that bright orange shirt than when I wear a blue or purple one… like no one can see the giant orange object biking past?!

Again, yes - with the particular cognitive bias they discuss, they specifically mention that <wearing a bright orange shirt doesn’t help</b>.

Fascinating book.

Comment #83: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/04  at  05:02 PM

Lettuce!!!??  You Commie DFH!  No Real Amurrrikan® eats lettuce!

Unless it’s <as href=“http://www.thisiswhyyourefat.com/”>deep fried with cheese</a>.

Comment #84: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/04  at  05:06 PM

I’ve been commuting to work by bike at least twice a week for the last couple of months, and trying to do errands by bike on weekends, and I think I’ve gotten yelled at exactly once.  We have a lot of careless drivers (Number one pedestrian death rate!  Woo!) but most people seem to be pretty respectful of bikes as long as I obey the rules of the road, make eye contact before I turn in front of them, etc.

BTW, before I started commuting I found a terrific book called Urban Biker’s Tips and Tricks that has a lot of great information about commuting and riding in the city.  It even had tips about cleaning up at work after a bike ride that have really stood me in good stead (and I’m a fairly sweaty person, so I was pretty nervous about it).

Comment #85: Mnemosyne  on  08/04  at  05:07 PM

I’ve been honked at many times, but once I remember merging onto the bridge in the village, right next to the big sign that says ‘share the road’ with a symbol showing that bicycles had to go into the traffic lane…  *HONK*HONK* “Get out of the street!”

The funny thing is that we were going about 20 mph, having just coasted down a steep hill, towards the red light in the middle of the village.  WTF, man.

Of course, I also commuted 5 miles to school when I was a kid.  It was pretty awesome, once the school was that close.

Comment #86: Crissa  on  08/04  at  05:09 PM

Xeranar at 81: Have to disagree with you on this point. American rightists have been paranoid about America becoming more like other countries since the 19th century. The fear was always about America being just another country. The rightists hate things like transit and bicycling to work because thats what they do in places like Denmark or Japan. In America, people drive and drive far to get to work. Its also why they hate apartments and mix-use neighborhoods. America is about tens of square of miles of boring suburban tract housing.

  Matt Yglesias has a post about this since he is a transportation wonk. He notes that the unfortunate aspect about transportation policy in America is that it ends up being a culture war issue. I corrected him and noted that every policy debate in America becomes a culture war issue.

Comment #87: Lee  on  08/04  at  05:10 PM

Not bloody likely, at least in the sense of a totally separate series of “cycleways” that are for bikes only.

A combination of dedicated bike lanes on major commerical streets and use of power line easements and mixed-use paths seems to be the trend—at least when there’s a public will to accomodate cyclists. Residential and side streets aren’t as big a concern due to low pedestrian and car traffic.

Change “bikists” to “drivers”, and you’ll see what you’re forgetting—-there are bad people in every category, but bicyclists and only bicyclists are groused about.

This may be because drivers, unlike cyclists, rarely decide to engage in the bad actor behaviour of driving down the sidewalk.

Comment #88: Gracchus.  on  08/04  at  05:11 PM

Change “bikists” to “drivers”, and you’ll see what you’re forgetting—-there are bad people in every category, but bicyclists and only bicyclists are groused about.  This is because we start from the position of assuming they have to justify themselves, while others do not.

It’s also because people are more likely to remember a near-miss or a hit that happens to their unprotected body than they are if the same thing happens to their car.  A fender bender is not nearly as memorable as a cyclist who knocks you down on the sidewalk and flips you off as he whizzes past.

Cyclists being treated badly on the road by motorists is not an excuse for them to behave badly on sidewalks with pedestrians.  I don’t understand why you don’t get that.

Comment #89: Mnemosyne  on  08/04  at  05:12 PM

@MikeEss:

I agree that cash strapped municipalities are unlikely to build more bike infrastructure.  I think it is the best solution, however.

Bike paths almost always tend to be attractive to pedestrians, whose presence then makes them all too often as dangerous to ride on as any other pedestrian-filled sidewalk.

These are the asshat pedestrians - the walking corollary to their biking and driving equivalents - who are as bad as the cab drivers in DC who decide that the bike lane is some sort of extra turning lane made just for them.

@Amanda

Once again, you’re assuming the position that the public space belongs to motorists first, and everyone else second.

I think he is saying (or at least I’m saying) that the two types of vehicle don’t belong on the same piece of infrastructure.  Pick one or the other for any given road, or give each dedicated lanes.

Comment #90: Richard Goblin  on  08/04  at  05:15 PM

Yeah, yeah, yeah all this discussion is great but no one has answered this question, especially
3letterjon @ #2:

Where do I get my hands on that fucking thing! Crazy awesome.

Comment #91: Danzig  on  08/04  at  05:17 PM

Car dealerships are notoriously large supporters in local elections to either get favorable legislation or be rewarded with possible motor pool contracts.

Any print journalist will tell you that car dealerships, as major advertisers (multiple full-page displays, paid supplements, etc.), are happy to lean on the publishers of non-national papers when it comes to killing a pro-bike/pro-public transit story, or to influence the spin of a editorial (transit-related or not, since the dealership owners are often wingnuts).

Comment #92: Gracchus.  on  08/04  at  05:27 PM

Nine out of ten times at a light, I beat the cars across the street on my bicycle.

If you’re worrying about a bicycle wobbling into your path… Why aren’t you worried about someone swerving into your path, or slamming on their brakes?  Those happen at least as often.

But you’re suddenly aware the bicyclist isn’t surrounded by steel, so you can’t take it for granted they’ll survive that.  So you hate them for sharing your lane.  Even though you could just drive normally past them, and nothing will happen.

Comment #93: Crissa  on  08/04  at  05:30 PM

Car drivers may, quite literally, not see bikers even when looking at them

Let me confirm this.  I am in favor of biking and bikers even though I’m not one of them, and there are a lot of them on my four-lane commute.  I always move over into the left lane when I see a biker in the bike lane, because at 60 mph there is no room for error passing him, and I want him to be comfortable, not terrified of me.  But it has happened more than once that I have been startled by seeing a biker late—well after I should have been aware of him.  He just hadn’t registered in my brain.

Two days ago, it was actually a biker on another road, who had taken the lane instead of riding in the bike lane, and I didn’t see him until I was close enough that I was startled and scared (not nearly close enough to be actually dangerous, but still).  I’m an assertive driver, but a careful one—in almost thirty years of driving, the only accident I’ve been in was when my neighbor backed out of his driveway into my car.  And sometimes bikes just disappear into the background.

Comment #94: elmo  on  08/04  at  05:33 PM

“Change “bikists” to “drivers”, and you’ll see what you’re forgetting—-there are bad people in every category, but bicyclists and only bicyclists are groused about.”

They’re not two discrete categories, though.  I mean, you put the thesis out there that motorists behave badly towards cyclists because they feel guilty for not cycling themselves, but it’s not like there’s this hard-and-fast dividing line between “people who drive” and “people who bike.” The assholes who harass and/or bully cyclists while in their cars are perfectly capable of going for a bike ride two hours later and then being the cyclists who harass and/or bully pedestrians.  Plenty of people who drive when running errands or commuting also go on bike rides for exercise or pleasure.  If they’re assholes with little-to-no regard for the safety or security of those around them, the behavior’s going to be much the same even with the change of vehicle.  The only thing that’s likely to temper it is the greater risk of injury to themselves as a cyclist rather than a driver, should they miscalculate and actually collide with something/someone.

Comment #95: preying mantis  on  08/04  at  05:37 PM

MikeEss#16: LOLLLLOL! You make me laugh. And pee my pants.

Comment #96: pitbullgirl65  on  08/04  at  05:40 PM

MikeEss#16: LOLLLLOL! You make me laugh. And pee my pants.

Look, can you two leave it in the bedroom?

Ewww…

Comment #97: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/04  at  05:46 PM

Richard Goblin@90: I will grant you that separate infrastructure is the best way to go in the long run, but that’s not going to happen tomorrow.  So, my question to you: What do we do in the meantime?  I’m serious. What would you have us cyclists do? Ride on the sidewalk? No. Too dangerous to pedestrians.  Only ride where there is a bike path? Not possible in many/most cases.  Stop riding? No. Fucking. Way.  So what’s left?  I’d really like to know, because I’m sick of being yelled at for nothing more than being there.  I can’t and won’t speak for/defend all cyclists, but I am fanatical about following the rules of the road, and I still get cursed at, swerved at and otherwise treated with contempt by drivers.

I don’t think it’s impossible or unrealistic for drivers to share the road with cyclists.  I do it all the time. It’s not that hard.  All we need is an extra 3 feet or so.  If a driver can’t figure out how to do that, maybe they shouldn’t be driving at all.

Comment #98: Bill in OH  on  08/04  at  05:53 PM

I would love more bicycles and fewer cars on the road, but what I would love way more than that?  Ticketing the bicyclists just like they do the cars.  Gotta section of road where pedestrians complain the bicyclists never stop at crosswalks?  Stake it out and ticket every single bike that doesn’t stop.  (Same thing with bicyclists who “run” red lights by quickly moving into the crosswalk and then out again.)  It’s illegal, it’s dangerous, and it’s a great source of revenue for your city.  The money from that could probably help significantly with any major pro-bike infrastructure projects.

I am curious about the stats on bikes v. pedestrians though.  Obviously cars can easily kill someone with no protection whatsoever (or really seriously harm them), but bikes seem like they would mainly cause smaller injuries (that still cost money to get looked at, of course).  If a car breaks my knee, the driver has insurance and I am definitely going to do all I can to make sure he pays up/is punished.  Basically, all it takes is a license plate (which, of course I might not get, but is possible).  If a guy on a bike does it, do I have anything like the those options?

Comment #99: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/04  at  05:54 PM

Change “bikists” to “drivers”, and you’ll see what you’re forgetting—-there are bad people in every category, but bicyclists and only bicyclists are groused about.

I disagree: I bitch about both.  As a commentor to a specific post, it may seem that way.  But I also appreciate the bikists who can actually manage to use the bike lane that’s been set apart for them.

One of the reasons I gave up my car is dealing with other motorists.  They’re idiots.  And driving along with them made ME an idiot too, and I didn’t want to be that guy.  So, the car went. (Among other reasons, but it sure made it easier.)

In this city, the bikists being so numerous, it is a special problem.  Also, we are renowned for polite motorists, although IMO they’ve still got a long chalk before they’re TOO polite.

...knocks you down on the sidewalk and flips you off as he whizzes past.

Happens too much around here—and I don’t really get what’s up with those guys (and it’s always guys, AFAICT).

Comment #100: Eric_RoM  on  08/04  at  05:54 PM

Mortality rates:  a silly argument.  The mass of a car guarantees it’s more deadly than a bike, even moving at the same speed.

Comment #101: Eric_RoM  on  08/04  at  06:00 PM

Atheist @99:  I’m down with this.  I watched a pair of bicyclists run a red light right in front of a cop the other day.  I honestly don’t think they realized that they were under the same obligation as a car.  A few tickets might have a clarifying effect on folks like that.  I’d also like to see more formalized instruction for cyclists. Something maybe like boating safety courses.

Comment #102: Bill in OH  on  08/04  at  06:04 PM

Nine out of ten times at a light, I beat the cars across the street on my bicycle.

You’re not helping your case for being a safe cyclist with comments like that. Unless the street is closed, it’s not a bloody race.

One of the reasons I gave up my car is dealing with other motorists.  They’re idiots.  And driving along with them made ME an idiot too, and I didn’t want to be that guy.  So, the car went.

Same here. I still drive now and then (borrowed and rented cars), and bike only slightly less often. I’m a lot happier and relaxed either on my feet or on public transit.

Comment #103: Gracchus.  on  08/04  at  06:05 PM

Once again, you’re assuming the position that the public space belongs to motorists first, and everyone else second.  If you believed all people were equal, this wouldn’t bother you so much.  Perhaps you resent their intrusion into what you consider “your” space?

The space between the sidewalk and the double yellow line constituting the 8 foot space designated a “lane” is specifically designed to be used by motor vehicles.  Bikes are obligated to use that space as well but you actually point out the exact reason why bikes can’t control their space (i.e. their position in the line) because they simply cannot keep up with traffic.  It is a safety concern more than an insecurity that they’re in the lane.

If I want to continue to travel down a two-lane street and the bike rider cannot exceed 15 miles an hour in a 25 or 35 mile per hour zone am I obligated to wait behind them?  Should I pass when capable?  Should I simply resign myself to the reality they have their place on the road and I should share it even though I can safely maintain a speed much closer to the limit and allow myself to travel farther in a shorter distance? 

I can see you are arguing this position that because I drive a car I suddenly don’t care about bikes or I feel they impede on me.  I don’t feel they impede upon me anymore than normal because I have to watch out for them more than they need to watch out for me.  In these situations the biker is in supreme control.  If I move I can knock them from their bike and break their body.  If they screw up the worst I get is scrape on my vehicle.  In many cases bikes choose not to represent their independent place on the road and take a shoulder position to cars because they cannot keep up which is what the bike lane would solve.  At 8 feet (which is the standard highway width and most of the US uses it) a midsize-car including mirrors has about 18 inches to spare.  It is not enough to have a bike move safely by us and since they cannot control a space within the lane proper their safety becomes an issue. 


I feel like I am a broken record, but I can’t help but recognize that the bike has little place on roads designed exclusively for motor vehicles.  If you look at bike-dominated societies the pathways are huge, designed to accommodate pedestrians and bikes dozens abreast.  They’re not lopped off into 8 feet lanes.  The road system in the US is just not designed for bike travel. 

As for people who abuse bike lanes: I can only hope to have them ticketed it.  How often do you see people double park in major cities?  Run red lights?  It’s all a natural part of the ebb and flow.  I can’t stress the bike path enough as the serious solution.  If pedestrians are in them have them reported and keep moving.

Comment #104: Xeranar  on  08/04  at  06:07 PM

It’s interesting reading all of this back and forth about pedestrians being in danger from cyclists.  One thing that I noticed was that somone commented on the danger to pedestrians from cyclists on “walking paths”.  It struck me because when I go to the state park, there is a bicycle path.  And it’s clearly marked “bicycle path”.  It’s advertsied as a “bicyle path”.  But there are so many walkers on it and I wonder if they think of it as “the walking path”.

Here’s the problem with that:  where i live, on LI, we have sidewalks and pedestrians are free to walk them.  (of course pedestrians around here are rare birds).  But cyclists aren’t supposed to be on the sidewalks, we’re supposed to be on the (dangerous) streets.  So now you have one of the very rare places for cyclists, filled with pedestrians.  I tolerate that and it doesn’t even really bother me.  Until I come across a group of pedestrians walking across the path, side-to-side. 

Then I really am tempted to curse them out.

It all depends on whose eyes you’re looking out from.

Comment #105: JennyLI  on  08/04  at  06:08 PM

Xeranar, I don’t know about where you live, but in Ohio we have laws that describe what the motorists’ and cyclists’ obligations are.  Perhaps you should investigate what they are in your area.  I bet you’ll find the answers to your questions.

Whether or not you think it should be the case, we have a legal right to be on that road.  Until (if) there is separate infrastructure (which is a dandy solution and something I support), I suggest you learn how to share the road.  It really isn’t that hard.

Comment #106: Bill in OH  on  08/04  at  06:13 PM

@106

I haven’t investigated it, but my mother actually taught me all the laws for bicycles as soon as I was deemed old enough to go off our cul-de-sac.  I assume she learned them in NY, but they were essentially the same in the southwest and are the same now that I am living in MA.  (I checked a couple weeks after I moved here after multiple bikes failed to stop for me when I was in a crosswalk on foot, and then one almost hit me from behind riding IN the crosswalk. I actually wondered if my mom had lied.)

I don’t really know how to increase bike safety without increasing the number of bicyclists who obey the law.  No matter what we do, if they don’t pay attention (know?!?!), it can never be substantially safer than it is now.

Comment #107: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/04  at  06:20 PM

If I want to continue to travel down a two-lane street and the bike rider cannot exceed 15 miles an hour in a 25 or 35 mile per hour zone am I obligated to wait behind them?  Should I pass when capable?  Should I simply resign myself to the reality they have their place on the road and I should share it even though I can safely maintain a speed much closer to the limit and allow myself to travel farther in a shorter distance?

What’s your position on motorized vehicles designated slow-moving on the roads? On garbage collection trucks? On horse and buggies? On tractors? On street sweepers? On school busses? On public transit (which stops every block to let people off and on)?

Why don’t I ever hear complaints about those vehicles (which I encounter daily on my commute, somewhere along the 13 mile round-trip) which are just as obstructionist?

I don’t think that the real complaint is “slow-moving” it’s that you’re more aware of the lack of defences a cyclist has. You have to operate your vehicle in accordance with the law in all the other cases I mentioned, including dealing with (in this northern construction season called “summer”) construction zones and people diverting and directing traffic in ways that slow everyone down.

so… shorter answer. yes. yes, you’re supposed to treat a bicycle as a slow-moving vehicle that’s sharing the road with you and obey the law. I understand that my being on the street can delay a person in a car by maybe a whole minute as they slow down to pass me safely, but do you know what? They signed up for that when they got their license and agreed to abide by all the rules of the road (not just the ones they like). There’s a section in my driver’s education book about cyclists and operating a bicycle safely on the roads and what the hand-signals mean (so that drivers understand the law and what the heck the cyclist is doing with their hands off the brakes).

Comment #108: kodiak  on  08/04  at  06:21 PM

Xeranar, I don’t know about where you live, but in Ohio we have laws that describe what the motorists’ and cyclists’ obligations are.  Perhaps you should investigate what they are in your area.  I bet you’ll find the answers to your questions.

Whether or not you think it should be the case, we have a legal right to be on that road.  Until (if) there is separate infrastructure (which is a dandy solution and something I support), I suggest you learn how to share the road.  It really isn’t that hard.

It was more or less rhetorical.  In fact I know exactly what is required of me to pass a cyclist.  In most cases the cyclist will simply use a hand signal to let me pass them without issue once the pathway is clear. 

What’s your position on motorized vehicles designated slow-moving on the roads? On garbage collection trucks? On horse and buggies? On tractors? On street sweepers? On school buses? On public transit (which stops every block to let people off and on)?

Why don’t I ever hear complaints about those vehicles (which I encounter daily on my commute, somewhere along the 13 mile round-trip) which are just as obstructionist?

The discussion was about cyclists and their position on the road.  If you want to read my thoughts on garbage trucks who block me in my alley once a week, horse and buggies I see when I drive up towards Amish country, tractors I almost never see, street sweepers who operate before I leave my house or school buses and public transit I can share my thoughts.  But you probably don’t want to hear about them because they vary and largely due to their motorized vehicular mass face a seriously different limitation than a 150 lb person on a bicycle. 

It isn’t slowing my person down that bothers me, it is the fact that I am obeying the speed limits, traveling at a normal rate of speed and a bike which cannot keep up with the traffic flow is bound to create an unsafe situation because their lack of speed, not their inconvenience to me.  I positioned my rebuttal in the wrong way.  Clearly I came off with the wrong intent and I ask forgiveness for that.  But the fact remains bicycles as they travel on regular roads are a safety hazard unto themselves because of their basic inability to be a motorized vehicle on roads designed to be such. 

The codes written for motorized vehicles were extended to bicycles back in the early 20th century and are heavily outdated.  The amount of traffic they face is unreal for the laws and systems.  Since most states don’t want to outlaw bikes or give them independent lanes they simply folded them into the motorized vehicle code and never gave it a second thought.  The natural falsehood of equivalency came from the laziness of state officials when gas was cheap and the expectation was everybody would drive as they got older.  Now we’re faced with a significant issue that needs to be resolved by giving bikes their own position on the road separate from motorized vehicles for their safety and the natural flow of traffic.

Comment #109: Xeranar  on  08/04  at  07:01 PM

This may be because drivers, unlike cyclists, rarely decide to engage in the bad actor behaviour of driving down the sidewalk.

Maybe not where you live. Here, people tend to park in the sidewalks, which usually means driving down the sidewalk for half the block length first.

A professor at my school also died a few years ago after getting doored while on his bike. My city has terrible drivers.

Comment #110: thecynicalromantic  on  08/04  at  07:10 PM

The space between the sidewalk and the double yellow line constituting the 8 foot space designated a “lane” is specifically designed to be used by motor vehicles.
Comment #104: Xeranar

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc

Originally they were dirt tracks between semi-permanent structures used by pedestrians.  Then they were replaced by formal packed dirt trails between permeate building used by oxen and chariots (and pedestrians).  Then there were paved with cobblestones so the carts the oxen pulled didn’t bog down into the mud (because they were often used as open sewers).

You get the idea…  just because they are currently dominated by single-occupancy internal-combustion motor vehicles means that it MUST be the way it is.  Look at the trolley lines that dominated most cities at the turn of the 1900’s.  Cars were the problem then, look at some of the laws created back then to protect the right of trolley riders.

(And just a pedantic note, the area you refer to as “The space between the sidewalk and the double yellow line constituting the 8 foot space designated a “lane”” is more accurately termed Right of Way(ROW).  In areas where a double yellow line is necessary the ROW is usually 15 feet per lane to allow commercial vehicles to operate.)

Comment #111: cynickal  on  08/04  at  07:15 PM

(And just a pedantic note, the area you refer to as “The space between the sidewalk and the double yellow line constituting the 8 foot space designated a “lane”” is more accurately termed Right of Way(ROW).  In areas where a double yellow line is necessary the ROW is usually 15 feet per lane to allow commercial vehicles to operate.)

Don’t quote me on this but the 8 feet designation for a lane comes from the highway system where 8 feet was standardized for motorized vehicle traffic.  Any city built after about 1920 most likely has a specific system designating 8-9 feet for a lane.  Any road made after about 1960 is guaranteed to be using this if a lane designation is made.  Arguing that the street is for all is valid just ignores the 80 or so years of concerted effort to establish motor vehicle right of way as compared to sidewalks where pedestrians existed.  Your argument ignores that Europe made no distinction for packed dirt roads or cobblestone streets.  Only when buggy traffic became serious did sidewalks become a need and then buggies gave way to motorized vehicles.  Then in most areas before the motorized vehicles the width would vary and pedestrian traffic and bicycles would still intermingle.  I could refer back to the French who love the bicycle acknowledging they were a danger to all because of the speed against pedestrians and slowness against motorized vehicles. 

The semantics argument is interesting and I grant it ground for sure but you ignore the current laws and their past uses regardless of the “ROW” usage the clear point is that they were intended for motor vehicle usage in almost every case.

Comment #112: Xeranar  on  08/04  at  07:43 PM

That most car drivers are obnoxious and unsafe is so banal an observation that I thought it not worth mentioning. Everyone knows it, I see it every day when I go on my walks and it’s equally dangerous. The difference is that it’s much easier to see and hear a car and I can be on my guard. As far as cars running stop signs, it’s sure rare around here. They might do a California stop, but never just blowing through stop signs and lights. Bicyclists here do that all the time. Because there are bike lanes all over town, they seem to want all the rights of pedestrians and none of the responsibilities of vehicles.

@99 expresses my feelings better than I did.

If bicyclists want a grade separation so they don’t have to stop, let ‘em build it. My taxes paid for the streets, so they should follow the traffic laws or pay for their own bike-only road. AFAIR they don’t pay road taxes.

BTW, I’ve owned a bike since I was 6, used to be an obnoxious rider especially as a teen, but now ride it as though my bicycle was a motorcycle.

Comment #113: mndean  on  08/04  at  08:21 PM

I have never seen a bike-only path in this country. The ones I have seen have all been meant to be shared by cyclists, walkers, joggers, runners, stroller pushers, people with dogs, toddlers toddling, and (thankfully less now) roller bladers.

Comment #114: Hector B.  on  08/04  at  08:53 PM

I always hate when cars slow down behind my bike.  It’s aggravating to have a ton of metal in your blind spot, just hovering there.

Comment #115: Crissa  on  08/04  at  09:05 PM

@113 - Only about half of the funding for road construction and maintenance is paid for by usage fees such as gas taxes; the other half comes out of the general fund.  So even people who never use motorized transportation are paying for the roads.  Take the ratio of a “pure biker’s” contribution to road funding to the amount of wear and tear she actually inflicts on those roads, and she’s likely contributing more than her fair share.  And in any case most bikers aren’t pure bikers.

Comment #116: tdcjames  on  08/04  at  09:55 PM

I regularly bike while my wife and friends run.  I have MS and so don’t run very well for long and biking slowly is great for me so I take on the task of protecting my wife while she runs because she would be run down by bikes if not, I alternate between biking in front of her or in back depending on what is going on…  people on bikes come up too close and fast from behind and then people going in the opposite direction also get too close to her when they are passing someone.  It seems that people on bikes put runners at risk because they don’t want to slow down a little…  This is on a trail that has a 15 mph speed limit and also a single file rule,  of course the people who are causing the problem don’t want to follow those rules.  I often wonder why the people who are biking like that just don’t go out on the road then I realize they probably bike to their car, get in it and then proceed to do the same thing on the road to other cars, bikers and whoever else they can threaten, probably in a hurry to get back home and watch Fox.

Having said that, there is no doubt that more people biking would be better for everyone… There are many trails around here but they are not connected so you have these parts of the road when people on bikes are trying to make it to the next trail, if not for this, people in cars would never see people on bikes but somehow the money never shows up to connect these trails and paths.  I can’t help but think the reason has something to do with the resentments discussed.  It just seems like it should be a priority and would increase the happiness of everyone with just a little tax money and some planning.

Comment #117: ewellone  on  08/04  at  10:32 PM

Personally, I’d like to see more cyclists armed.

With TOW missiles.

That would take care of car-on-cyclist violence.

(This comment is sponsored by the NRA, which reminds you to be responsible gun owners)

Comment #118: idiosynchronic  on  08/04  at  11:15 PM

I’m all in favor of people biking. I don’t have a bike, but I used to love it. I willingly admit that cyclists scare the crap out of me when I’m driving, but so do traffic cops, construction workers, and other denizens of the road who aren’t encased in safety-tested steel. What if I sneeze, or do something brainless, or my foot slips, or I misjudge the size of my car, or suddenly go blind, or the Earth’s gravity changes without warning? I ran over a turtle the other day and cried for 20 minutes. If I ever hurt a person, I don’t know what I’d do with myself.

While I’m sure that some drivers are bitchy about cyclists just because they’re assholes, I think this sort of anxiety also a part with a lot of people. Nobody likes to be uncomfortable, obvs. Not saying this is the fault of cyclists, just throwing out an additional perspective.

Comment #119: stonebiscuit  on  08/04  at  11:40 PM

OP reminds me about those crazy conservatives who get so mad at ‘Earth Hour’ (where you turn your lights off for an hour- once a year!) that they intentionally turn all their lights on, just to ‘make up the difference’. I mean, I get it if you don’t think global warming is real, but there’s no need to be an asshole about it.

Comment #120: Destructor  on  08/05  at  01:02 AM

I’m a runner who’s had a long-standing grudge against asshole cyclists, much like Caren. But I’m changing my mind a bit about that; my bad run-ins with smug cyclists were in Iowa City—where the cycling population is dumb, reckless college kids and really pretentious types that make their living in connection with the university and the hospital. 

But recently I had the pleasure of running the Crescent Trail through the Maryland suburbs of DC. Lots of cyclists on that trail, riding very fast, and manifestly better than the college-town types. Not a single one of hundreds was rude or put me in any danger. And there was a lot of traffic on that trail. It was great.

In Iowa I got crap from motorists for being over 20, unattractive, but exercising outdoors anyway. People tried to run me off the sides of roads. In SC I don’t get rude behavior, but I do get strange looks. There’s no fitness culture here at all. Whereas in Maryland, I saw all fitness levels out on the Crescent Trail, including my own rather modest middle-aged trot. 

So count me in total sympathy with the cyclists.

Comment #121: wapsie  on  08/05  at  11:18 AM

I have noticed that here in New England, people arenot only vocally and openly anti-bicycle, they are anti-motorcycle.  They literally seem to think if someone on a bike of either type is hit it must be the rider’s fault.  Full stop.  Yet another instance where maroon (red-purple) ID is more liberal, in my experience, than blue-blue MA.

Comment #122: helen w. h.  on  08/05  at  11:21 AM

It’s amazing that posters might consider me anti-cyclist being that I am one, albeit one that much prefers walking now. I only ask that cyclists follow the laws. Is that too much?

I apologize for being inaccurate about road funds, but my point stands. Perhaps bicyclists can pay a gas-style road tax when they purchase bicycles/parts as I pay with every gallon of gas. They do get bike lanes and bike trails which we all pay for but are only useful to them.

I didn’t see a reply dealing with my Critical Mass experience, was there one? I have some posters in the Bozo bin, so I may not have seen it.

I will say that 2/3 of cyclists are reasonably safe. Others are like the one I encountered a few months back - she and I approached an intersection and the stop was on her side. I drove through, and she blew through the stop. She yelled at me for being unsafe, not caring that she was legally bound to stop.  THAT’S what I’m talking about, and variations on this happen a lot.

Comment #123: mndean  on  08/05  at  12:01 PM

I have cycled extensively on city streets, so I am intimately acquainted with the hazards faced by cyclists.  Nevertheless, one thing that really pisses me off is when cyclists don’t even bother to follow basic rules of the road.  I can’t tell you have many times I’ve seen fellow cyclists run red lights or stop signs or, my pet peeve, ride the wrong way on the fucking road.  Seriously, then next time I see some ignorant douche coming at me head-on in the bike lane I’m going to slap them silly.  You’re a fucking vehicle—act like it!

/rant

Comment #124: Captain Bathrobe  on  08/05  at  03:16 PM

I think what really makes certain car drivers insecure is that no matter how impressive their exopenis is in terms of horsepower, their sole input into its control involves small movements of arms and feet.  Meanwhile, some cyclist is kicking their arse up a hill while they sit in traffic.

Comment #125: Ms Kate  on  08/05  at  03:36 PM

Something Xeranar clerly doesn’t understand: it was CYCLISTS not MOTORISTS who first got the roads paved.

Got that?  If anything, a paved road is first and foremost a CYCLING road.  Don’t ever forget that.

Comment #126: Ms Kate  on  08/05  at  04:07 PM

I’m so glad I read all the way through these comments, it’s been a very constructive conversation, rather than Amanda’s hand waving of “jez jealous” and “but cars do it too!”.  Cars do a lot of stupid things, but the one thing they do far less often (as a proportion of their numbers) is run red lights and stop signs.  Like Caren, I drive in Chicago (down Belmont Ave., specifically), and I’ve made it a point to look at how many bikes run red lights/stop signs.  During the summer, it’s at least one every other day, climbing quickly towards daily, and I see way fewer bikes than cars each day.

Separate infrastructure does seem unrealistic, so if cars and bikes are going to coexist, there needs to be better training on both sides.  Drivers need to be trained to check their mirror when opening the door, and to check their right mirror when about to make a RH turn (difficult because we’re currently trained to look left at oncoming traffic), and to be reminded (though it’s already in the rules of the road here in IL) that *all* vehicles are allowed space on the road, so if a bike is in your lane moving at 10-15 mph, that’s that.  Currently, I know of no city/municipality that requires any training to use a bike on the road.  That really needs to change.  I’m hoping it will also help with bike paths; my first attempt to use one almost resulted in a crash with another bike that made a LH turn into my lane (I was riding in the opposite direction).  No signal, no slowdown, no nothing, just me hitting the brakes as fast as I could yelling “Fuck!” in terror at the top of my lungs.

Comment #127: NY Expat  on  08/05  at  04:21 PM

@105
I was thinking the exact same thing.  Stories about cyclists terrorizing pedestrians in the sidewalk always surprise me a little bit.  I don’t doubt that it occurs sometimes, but I honestly have never, ever seen it happen, and the cyclists I usually see on sidewalks travel very slowly.  What I do encounter on a regular basis are pedestrians who seem to think that bike paths are really just extensions of the sidewalk.  My daily commute takes me through a clearly marked, bicycle only path.  It is usually full of pedestrians who are either blind to the signs, or are deliberately ignoring them.  It is inevitable that at some point on my way home, I will encounter a group of pedestrians who are completely obstructing the path.  I slow way down and shout “Excuse me! Cyclist on your left/right,” to give them a heads up, but sometimes I have to go off the path to get around them anyway. 
I frequently wonder if those people are going to turn around and complain to others about a cyclist who once almost mowed them down on a sidewalk.

Comment #128: mamram  on  08/05  at  04:24 PM

@114
I used to live in Western Mass, where the bike paths were as you described: designed for bikes, but meant to be shared.  In Boston, however, we have distinct bike only paths, that usually run parallel to walking paths.

Comment #129: mamram  on  08/05  at  04:38 PM

I bike pretty often.  I live in Minneapolis, and work downtown, so I take Nicollet Mall for several blocks.  Nicollet Mall, for non-Minneapolitans, is a bus-police-taxi-bike-only street running through the middle of the business district.  The speed limit is 10 mph.  The pedestrians on Nicollet are RIDICULOUS.  They literally start walking across Nicollet whenever the hell they want, regardless of whether they’re at a light, and if they are, regardless of the color of said light, and regardless of whether there is a bus, car, truck, bike, or train headed straight for them.  As a cyclist, I want to run them over.  One particularly irritating incident: I was riding down Nicollet, and halfway down the block a woman sees me heading fast down the street, and makes the decision to continue walking across.  I wait until the very last possible second, screech to a halt, and give her the meanest glare I can muster.  She stops in her tracks, as if waiting for me to continue riding, but doesn’t say a fucking word.  I continue glaring until she decides to finish her stroll to the other side.

It makes my blood boil every time I think about it, and it was 2 months ago.  This is such a regular occurrence.  I can’t figure out what in the hell is wrong with these pedestrians.  As my brother-in-law, also an avid cycler, says: I may not be a car, but it will still fucking hurt if I hit you.

/rant

Comment #130: April  on  08/07  at  10:56 PM

FYI, 8’ is not the standard lane width.

Comment #131: helen w. h.  on  08/09  at  04:09 PM
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