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Next entry: Time to retire the word “libertarian” Previous entry: Matt Drudge’s imaginary race war

There is no one reaction to harassment

I  have a piece at the Guardian's CIF about this whole Anthony Weiner business, and why, even though this is primarily about attacking Weiner because he's a fighter, this fits into a larger pattern of right wing abuse of sexy young women for the  high crime of being intellectually independent instead of just doing and believing what right wing ideologues instruct them to do and believe.  We mustn't forget that Weiner isn't the only target here, but that a 21-year-old college girl has now had her life torn up by a bunch of misogynist asswipes who are using this as an excuse to invade her privacy, droolingly "analyze" her body, examine her for evidence of non-chastity, etc.  It's disturbing, and even if the allegations prove true (I remain highly skeptical), it is still no excuse to abuse the  young woman in question like this.  And certainly not to comb over Weiner's Twitter friends to see if any of them are hot enough to get similar treatment.  I get the distinction impression from the clusterfuck that's going on that a whole lot of right wing dudes are really relishing the opportunity to punish cute girls for choosing men that aren't them. 

And of course, they have a punishing attitude towards Weiner for being widely perceived as lucky with the ladies.  I have no idea what Weiner's private life is like, and again, it's really not important.  And even if he is a cheater, I'm unclear on why harassing him is appropriate.  But if you have any doubts that the logic of harassment, especially sexual harassment, has kicked in, check out Weiner's enemies are using the rape/sexual abuse apology handbook.  Jesse and I covered the "asking for it" aspects yesterday.  Now, Ace of Spades has brought in one of the most irritating pages from the handbook, "She's Not A Victim Unless She Acts Like I Expect Victims To Act, Which Is Subject To Change Depending On My Needs".  Except the "she" in this case is Weiner.  For instance, if women report rape right away, that's taken as evidence they're lying, but if they don't, that's also taken as evidence they're lying.  Everything confirms what someone has already decided is true. 

And so Ace has decided Weiner is guilty because he's supposedly not acting harassed:

 

 

 

 

 

I love how we're all wingnutz because we've been out of the house enough to know how human beings behave. Like if they're seriously victimized in a malicious crime, they tend to get rather angry. They don't toss off casual jokes about it and try to change the subject right away.

They dwell. They vent. They use ALL CAPS or shout in real life. They make threats of furious consequences.

They do not say "Hacked!," like "Jinx, buy me a coke!

He goes on at length, citing his repeated viewings of "Law and Order" as foolproof evidence that he knows how innocent people behave and it's not like Weiner.  Which does contradict his assertion that he understands human behavior because he leaves the house, and suggests the opposite, that perhaps most of his conclusions about human behavior stem from television.  And from his long time spent in front of the TV, he can tell you that there's only one way a victim of a harassment campaign should act, and that is conveniently not how Weiner is acting.  Ace doesn't mention that the woman that's being harassed did in fact act this way, because that would undercut his point.  

Well, I have one thing to say about this, which is unlike Ace, I do actually get my knowledge of how people act outside of TV.  And I'm also a feminist blogger who has a lot of friends who are feminist bloggers.  So I'm intimately aware of how people react when they're subject to harassment campaigns, because I've been subject to about a dozen of various sizes and many of my friends have gone through that experience as well, to varying degrees of trauma.  And what I've learned is not only do not all people react the same way, but individuals may have different reactions to different kinds of harassment. 

Some people try to blow it off.  Some people crawl into bed and weep.  Some people get angry.  Others are mildly bewildered.  Some people can't stop reading as more and more abuse piles up.  Some people sense a harassment campaign warming up, roll their eyes, and wander off.  Some people genuinely fear for their lives.  Some people find their attackers to be such worthless sacks of shit they can't take even scary death threats seriously.  Some people who react one way in one instance will do differently in another.  I've had all of these reactions at various points in my harassment-target-heavy career. And how people believe you must feel and how you do often differ greatly.  

I learned that when I ran a bunch of hate mail I was getting in the wake of the Edwards fiasco.  What I felt, in doing that, was that this was an intellectual exercise in learning to have perspective.  I was being villainized as some horrible person because I made a few on-target and totally accurate jokes about Catholic dogma, but in fact the people who are the true nasty assholes are the right wing ideologues who sprung erections at the thought of having an excuse to unleash invective on a strange young woman whose main crime was uppitiness.  But I got an outpouring of sympathy from people, and while it was appreciated, it felt a little strange because I didn't feel like they assumed I must.  People assumed I must have been unnerved by all the hate mail, when mostly I was just irritated.  I was under no illusions that right wing nuts are nice people, so I wasn't surprised or even particularly upset. 

Point is, it's hard to guess.  And when you're trying to monitor your public reaction to a harassment campaign, it gets even stickier.  Your main goal is generally to do what it takes to stop the harassment.  However, your harassers want any excuse to continue the harassment.  This makes choosing correctly harder than you'd think.  One reason that people elect "laugh it off" is that sometimes this is effective.  Your harassers want to get a rise out of you, and the hope is by not giving them what they want, they'll get bored.  Sometimes you feel that secrecy is protective.  Sometmes you fight back, hoping to scare them off.  The effectiveness of any choice is hard to gauge when you're making it, and it's basically at random.  Plus, you have a lot of people advising you on what to do, and it's often conflicting advice. 

All we know is that Weiner is fucking up publicly in this, and that's easy for those of us on the outside to perceive.  But why isn't something we can know.  He could be guilty of what he's accused of doing.  He could be guilty of something else.  He could be totally innocent and just not perceptive.  But the notion that any of us can say with certitude what his reaction means is silly.  His accusers would be better off producing real evidence, and their inability to do this is the story here. 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 01:38 PM • (55) Comments

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/06/weiner_i_cant_say_with_certitude_lewd_photo_wasnt.php?ref=fpb

This new statement he is making, seems to bear out what I’ve suspected since yesterday.  He was hacked.  It’s him in the picture.  The two were never mutually exclusive and that’s why he’s been acting so fucking weird, refusing to tell TPM “no” when they asked him outright if it was him in the pic.  I feel so badly about this.  I have a similar experience, I’m not going to get into it.  But it’s a violation that is hard to describe. 

I was really concerned that this was going to give Breibart credibility, but I think this is shaking out that Weiner was hacked, and Breibart either ordered it, or knows who did it, and has been using information the hacker gave him.  And you know what?  It should end there.  It’s nobody’s fucking business what was in his computer.  I don’t care who the pictures were for (and he is implying there that the pic may have been altered somehow), that’s his personal property.  This is a crime.  And Weiner isn’t the criminal. 

I really feel for him.  And for any woman who may, OR MAY NOT, have been involved in this, because I don’t think we know, or ever will, or ever should, whether it was ever sent by Weiner to someone else.  For all we know, he sent it to his wife.  Think about it.  That’s pretty much what happened to me.  And yeah, you do act funny.  They weren’t meant for anyone else to see.  I hope the mf’er who did it, and Breibert if he had anyting to do with it ( he did), to time just like the guy who hacked Palin’s email did.  They need to do time.

Comment #1: Daisy  on  06/01  at  03:01 PM

Marcotte, your line yesterday where the ‘judges’ of the wingnutistan nation were “skeptical” about the perceptions of the 21 year old - that says it all.

First hand accounts of the primary protagonist in the story? Why should we believe that when we’ve got lots of middle aged guys (and they’ve seen police procedural TV shows to boot!) who possess the ‘analysis’ to get to the truth.

Why believe the account of the person we are about to burn at the stake?

Lets just see if she floats on water (like very, very, very small rocks*) - then we’ll know she’s guilty - silly, silly ‘coed.’

Then we can see what happens when a dog or cat walks in the room and notices or doesn’t notice Wiener.

*Thank you monty python.

Comment #2: KingElvis  on  06/01  at  03:04 PM

misogynist asswipes who are using this as an excuse to invade her privacy, droolingly “analyze” her body, examine her for evidence of non-chastity, etc.

In that they’d have a lot in common with the methods of the Egyptian Army and police.

All we know is that Weiner is fucking up publicly in this, and that’s easy for those of us on the outside to perceive.

His strategy seems to be to let others do the (relatively easy) work of de-bunking this fraud while he stays aloof from it all with a “don’t we have more important things to do?” attitude. That passive attitude seems odd coming from a pitbull like Weiner, but he seems to be getting more aggressive today. And I can’t really blame a politician in our current MSM environment being reluctant to admit that he takes crotch shots of himself.

From what Weiner now says, it does sound like someone got access to his personal computer or, more likely, to a private account on a photo sharing site like Flickr or Picasa where he had a weak password (not a major hacking feat). The person then posted the photo on y.frog under another account, did the whole manual re-tweet thing and then took screenshots of the y.frog page and ‘Shopped Weiner’s Twitter name onto the y.frog screenshot.

I hope the mf’er who did it, and Breibert if he had anyting to do with it ( he did), to time just like the guy who hacked Palin’s email did.  They need to do time.

I’m sure it’s the same mope, this patriotusa76 who’s apparently a big Clarence Thomas fan. Even if they nail him (he likely used proxy servers throughout), I can’t see him going to the slam when O’Keefe avoided jail after entering the physical premises of a Senator’s office for illegal purposes.

Comment #3: Gracchus.  on  06/01  at  03:19 PM

Gracchus, hacking is illegal though.  I understand what you are saying about proxy servers, but if he wasn’t that careful and they can trace the IP, why wouldn’t he go to jail?  The guy who hacked Palin did go to jail.

Comment #4: Daisy  on  06/01  at  03:25 PM

Maybe he looks bad because we’ve never seen him embarrassed and rattled.(or as Amanda puts it…harassed) Now he gets harassed again, by the media.
Personally, I’ll never forget how he stands up for women…whatever photos he takes. (I’d still rather it wasn’t so, obviously.) But I’m not going to revise my whole opinion of this brave and funny guy based on some crap like this.

Comment #5: chicating  on  06/01  at  03:28 PM

Gracchus, hacking is illegal though.  I understand what you are saying about proxy servers, but if he wasn’t that careful and they can trace the IP, why wouldn’t he go to jail?  The guy who hacked Palin did go to jail.

Why didn’t O’Keefe go to jail after he and his confederates were caught and arrested after trying to tamper with the phones in Landrieu’s office? That was a clear-cut case, and yet he’s still walking around free. My point is that it’s not a sure thing that he’ll end up behind bars if he gets caught—conservative ratf*ckers seem to get a lot of free passes.

I also should note that the proxies or TOR or whatever he used won’t help him if it’s demonstrated that the photo was never posted on Weiner’s y.frog account (assuming he has one at all). Then patriotusa76 will have to explain where he got the crotch shot that showed up in the ‘Shopped screenshot, and the whole thing will unravel (so long as the crotch shot is of Weiner and Weiner admits it).

Comment #6: Gracchus.  on  06/01  at  03:35 PM

Come to think of it, that may be why Weiner is playing coy at the moment. If the scenario is as I describe above, Weiner can tell this moron he has two choices: admit it was all a fraud (including the photo, whether it’s Weiner’s or not), and he won’t press charges; or go to prison for a few years while Weiner weathers a week or two of embarrassment over the crotch shot that may have been meant for his wife.

The pathetic thing is, a conservative idiot with screwed-up attitudes toward sex and women would just as likely take the latter option as the former.

Comment #7: Gracchus.  on  06/01  at  03:44 PM

I have no idea whatsoever if he did this or not (though 1. I swear I’ve seen that photo long before elsewhere on the web and 2. I don’t think he’s that stupid - if he was going to send a photo like that, wouldnt he have DM’d the girl and asked for an email address??)  BUT…..

I was online at the time, and follow his tweets. I’d have reacted precisely the same way - with a joke. I tend to laugh of that kind of bullsnot unless it seems “death/rape threaty.” People who behave like middle school twerps tend to get no reaction from me other than a sarcastic joke.

Comment #9: Broce  on  06/01  at  03:54 PM

I dare Mr. Lane to look at this and tell me who exactly is doing the harassing here.

Comment #10: AJB  on  06/01  at  03:55 PM

Heads up I guess.

Better believe it. I was already expecting trolls on the basis of her mentioning the whole Edwards business, but this will add to it. It has all the ingredients for a perfect storm of right-wing sex-negative anti-atheist douchiness in this thread.

Comment #11: Gracchus.  on  06/01  at  03:58 PM

#5, good point. I spent a large part of my life living in Massachusetts, and since both my mother and father were involved in the newspaper business I was privy to more “inside” information on the Kennedys than most people.

I absolutely abhorred the way many of them, including the late Ted, used women like toilet paper in their private lives. But Ted always stood up for women’s rights in public, was solidly dependable on choice, etc. I voted for him over and over again because he was a damned good senator for the state, but you couldnt have paid me to have lunch with him.

Comment #12: Broce  on  06/01  at  03:59 PM

Here is a breakdown (somewhat technical) explaining how Weiner was framed.  Obviously, some of this is not 100% certain, but it is strong evidence that just about anyone could have done it (although there is a prime suspect).

Comment #13: progrocker  on  06/01  at  04:17 PM

A tentative possibility I’ve been considering since the Congressman said he couldn’t say for sure whether the picture was of him: the picture itself is legit, and was accidentally posted on the yfrog account. (This would be possible if it was a phone picture that was subsequently shared using common cell phone apps, even if to a single recipient.) The creepy stalker who had been harassing the Congressman was, as creepy stalkers often do, looking at the pictures posted on that yfrog account. He sees the dick pic, and immediately sees a good way to attack. Then he creates a fake retweet, and the hounds are unleashed.

Comment #14: Djur  on  06/01  at  04:36 PM

You write, “...it is still no excuse to abuse the young woman in question like this.”

Since when do we need an excuse to abuse young women when they are out there, just flaunting their bodies and giving it up to other guys but not to me?

Sorry, time to get ready for therapy.

Comment #15: Iam138  on  06/01  at  04:37 PM

I don’t really care what the perennially nasty and dishonest asswipes on Red State say about me. They still haven’t decided if I’m a dirty slut or a sex-hating prude, IIRC.

Comment #16: Amanda Marcotte  on  06/01  at  04:56 PM

It is kind of interesting to see the final culmination of “Democratic men are women” meme.

I mean, it’s been lingering around the edges and getting more and more explicit, including the “boys will be boys” vs “how dare he betray the public trust” reactions to sexual scandals.

But now, we have Democratic congressmen literally being treated like every harassed female celebrity.

That says a lot, both confirming analyses of the past and saying not so nice things about the state of our society in the present.

Hopefully, we’ll be able to use things like this to get our society over its fucking masculinity crisis and into sanity.

Comment #17: Cerberus  on  06/01  at  04:57 PM

After that interview, my theory is that Weiner was hacked, and the only reason he won’t say for certain if the picture is him or not is he’s really not sure.  And that’s because he’s taken pictures like that.  Which, I must point out, is neither wrong nor illegal.  Having naked pictures on your computer for personal use should, in a fair world, be a right given to all Americans.  Alas, in our world, it’s still treated like you did something wrong if it gets out, and in fact the only reason it gets out is because bad people want to abuse the victim.  Most cases, for instance, a woman obliges a boyfriend naked pictures, and he vindictively releases them after they break up.

Comment #18: Amanda Marcotte  on  06/01  at  04:58 PM

“They still haven’t decided if I’m a dirty slut or a sex-hating prude, IIRC.”

Both/and, of course.  They’ve also deluded themselves into not seeing the basic contradiction in those two ideas as well.

Doublethink is alive and well among our friends on the Reich-side of the political spectrum…

“To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget, whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again…”
— George Orwell

Comment #19: MikeEss  on  06/01  at  05:10 PM

It’s great that Weiner isn’t categorically denying the picture is real.  He can probably withstand the attack, and by doing so he’s giving space to the rest of us who don’t want to dignify wingnut accusations, whether true or false, with a heartfelt denial.  Fuck those bastards.  The next liberal Democrat who gets savaged by Rethugs can say, “I’ll follow the lead of Anthony Weiner.  No comment.”

Broce, great to have you back, we missed you!

Comment #20: Unree  on  06/01  at  05:13 PM

Sorry, time to get ready for therapy.

See, you ruined your wingnut-snark right there.  Going to therapy requires in itself a certain level of self-awareness.

Comment #21: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  06/01  at  05:21 PM

They still haven’t decided if I’m a dirty slut or a sex-hating prude, IIRC.

The former if you’re having sex with a liberal or progressive, the latter if you’re not having sex with a conservative (like themselves).

Their screwed-up version of Both/And. It’s one of the creepiest things about your (and I suppose other feminist bloggers’) trolls.

Comment #22: Gracchus.  on  06/01  at  05:32 PM

#20 Thank you, Unree, I didnt realize anyone knew I missing!

Comment #23: Broce  on  06/01  at  05:36 PM

“They still haven’t decided if I’m a dirty slut or a sex-hating prude, IIRC.”

Amanda, this has gone on from time immemorial. In the early-mid 1970s I got the same shit in school, probably because they guys I dated were older and not in school with me. Either I was a whore for men, a lesbian, or frigid. Never could quite figure out how I could be all three at the same time, but I think it came down to “We think she’s doing it, but she won’t do it with us.”

Comment #24: Broce  on  06/01  at  05:39 PM

Rep. Weiner has said that the tweet was on his timeline, because he saw it and deleted it. He’s denied sending it again. So it looks like the most probable vector would be his Facebook or Yfrog account.

Comment #25: Djur  on  06/01  at  05:53 PM

Reading the comments on your Guardian piece is a trip.  If I had a “huh?” counter, it’d be well near maxed out I’m sure.

Comment #26: alicefairy  on  06/01  at  06:01 PM

I was harassed/stalked at one point in my professessional career, and as to my reactions: yes to all Amanda listed, over the three year period.

Although my profession wasn’t sexual, one of the attacks my two harassers (friends who acted in tandem) made was to claim I was (a)a lesbian and/or (b) a diseased, slutty heterosexual.

What a surprise, I was a woman, they were men who saw no contradiction in making out-of-the blue sexual slurs.

Finally, stalking laws were enacted in California. Facing real world consequences, my stalkers/harassers quit on me, at least (they had a history of harassing those in the profession they felt hadn’t given them their due.)

Ah, if only there were consequences for lying wingnut harassers!

Comment #27: judybrowni  on  06/01  at  06:07 PM

Is it just me or does the word “coed” to refer to this woman make anyone else want to throw things?

Comment #28: GumbyAnne  on  06/01  at  06:47 PM

Yes, GumbyAnne. “Coed” is an awesome adjective. Coed school, coed dorms, coed bathrooms. But as a noun, it’s a cross between retro sexist (generic “college student” = male, as if a majority of college students aren’t women now!) and pornulated sexist. Google the plural noun and you get a crapload of porn sites. It is NOT a neutral word for “female college student.”

That said, I always want to call Vassar and Sarah Lawrence men “shapely coeds.”

Comment #29: Orange  on  06/01  at  07:32 PM

Well, one thing’s for sure, the stenography pool and the noise machine are now officially in full collaboration. I’m calling it: Weiner is officially screwed and can kiss the mayor’s election goodbye. They’re determined to take him down by any means possible, and they will do it.

Comment #30: BrianX  on  06/01  at  08:10 PM

It’s amazing how there doesn’t even need to be a scandal. The media just pretends there’s a scandal and continues talking about nothing until whoever’s career is ruined.

Comment #31: Dan  on  06/01  at  08:50 PM

It’s amazing how there doesn’t even need to be a scandal. The media just pretends there’s a scandal and continues talking about nothing until whoever’s career is ruined.

Remember - It’s All Cock If You’re A Democrat.

Comment #32: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  06/01  at  10:38 PM

yeah. The evidence still points to the fact that this was a hack. All of the spinning in the world doesn’t change that—the photo’s tags, the sheer distance between Weiner and the recipient, the fact that the guy to “break” the story was a serial harasser of the recipient, the fact that the guy who published the story has a pretty rich history of framing up liberals and has no problem doing ethically, if not legally shady things to achieve those ends, hell, even the timing—Memorial Day weekend is typically a pretty slow news cycle perfect for a little tempest in a teapot. And it keeps us from actually discussing the debt ceiling, which most Americans don’t want to do because no one wants to admit they voted for one of the clowns that’s about to ruin the credit of the USA for the next few generations and possibly precipitate another global financial meltdown.

As for Weiner’s reaction—I can totally see how, esp. if he was about to write a tweet about hockey when he saw the photo pop up, his first reaction wasn’t “secure the crime scene and figure out precisely what happened” it was “hey, shit, I gotta get this off my twitter account before it gets around.” And in those moments, you’re not really paying attention to anything but the end goal and you’re going to be fuzzy on the details when grilled about it later.

And in the case that Weiner did send the pic? Who the fuck cares. It wasn’t rape—maybe she didn’t assent to having those photos sent but she’s certainly not giving us any reason to believe that he’s established a pattern of behavior where he was sending unwanted sexual photos. And more to the point, he hasn’t built his career off of telling people what they can and cannot do in the bedroom. He hasn’t gotten his votes by pandering to base misogyny and homophobia. Yeah, if you want your politicians to be as pure as the driven snow you’re totally allowed to never vote for him again, and good luck to you in vetting your next ballot. But he isn’t a hypocrite or a rapist, which is why so many of the republican sex scandals have legs.  I really, truly do not care about the sex lives of others so long as it’s meaningfully consensual and none of them are trying to shut down my options.

Comment #33: Mighty Ponygirl  on  06/01  at  10:44 PM

“It’s amazing how there doesn’t even need to be a scandal. The media just pretends there’s a scandal and continues talking about nothing until whoever’s career is ruined.”

Just think of all the time and effort it saves. 

Old-fashioned newspaper reporters had to patiently wait around for scandals to happen, and who knew how long you’d have to wait?  At least there were no intertubes back then.  Now, in the age of The Intertubes, and the slow death of newspapers, and a barely literate public who wants their scandals RIGHT NOW, you need one or two scandals every day, with a really tasty one one every week or so.

Fortunately, with the way the media works now, you can whip up a scandal out of nothing, pretty much on demand.  Plus there are plenty of Reichwing operatives ready and willing to start the ball rolling.

Miracles of the modern age…

Comment #34: MikeEss  on  06/01  at  10:52 PM

and the only reason he won’t say for certain if the picture is him or not is he’s really not sure.  And that’s because he’s taken pictures like that.  Which, I must point out, is neither wrong nor illegal.  Having naked pictures on your computer for personal use should, in a fair world, be a right given to all Americans.

This is what I thought after hearing he wouldn’t outright deny it was him.  And my next thought was how sad it was that admitting that—absent any of the other BS flying around—would brand him a pervert for life.  Taking sexy pictures of yourself is incredibly tame compared to the kinky stuff conservatives are always getting caught doing.  And it really drives home your point, Amanda, that liberals equal women.  Real Men(TM) would never stoop so low as to do something playful like like teasing a lover with a picture.  That’s so many levels of emasculating their heads would explode.

Comment #35: bomberE  on  06/01  at  11:10 PM

If he was hacked, then that is an enormous security problem. He is a Congressman, not some schmoe from Poughkeepsie. He seems to have forgotten that when he made an off-the-hip defense.

It seems obvious that he took the picture, he sent the tweet as part of an online flirtation meaning it to be private, not public, and that he’s now flailing badly. Progressives can make excuses for him but the dude has shit his own nest.

Comment #36: Alkaloid  on  06/02  at  12:55 AM

Alkaloid, read progrocker’s link @13 if you’re in fact interested in what’s likely from people who, you know, actually know stuff.

Progrocker, thanks for the awesome link.

Comment #37: Liz212  on  06/02  at  01:15 AM

It would be an enormous security problem if Weiner was in the habit of conducting public business through his Twitter and YFrog accounts.  If he restricts all public business to his US government accounts, as he is legally required to do, then it’s only a security problem if someone hacked those accounts.  So no, it’s not a security problem that his private accounts may have been hacked.  It’s a public relations problem at worst.

Comment #38: Nutella  on  06/02  at  02:08 AM

The Guardian really should stop letting people comment for free on those articles.  Maybe people would be less stupid if they had to take the time to put in their paypal info for $0.02.

Comment #39: Toitle  on  06/02  at  05:37 AM

“She’s Not A Victim Unless She Acts Like I Expect Victims To Act, Which Is Subject To Change Depending On My Needs” applies really well to the way Jill Stanek and her minions have been attacking Mikki Kendall, too.

Comment #40: kouredios  on  06/02  at  08:39 AM

Jesus fuck. I have so had it with this stupid fucked-up shithole of a country. Too bad nobody wants 55 year old non-rich immigrants.

Comment #41: Steve LaBonne  on  06/02  at  10:18 AM

“You can’t fix stupid.”

Old Texas Saying.

Comment #42: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  06/02  at  10:25 AM

Another reason for him to avoid categorical denial or affirmation is that it would get into the size-queen debate—which the mainstream media would no doubt cover with a straight face for days, all the while deploring that the public marketplace of ideas had sunk so low. By the time it was over, Weiner would have to release pictures of his penis so that the photoshop jockies could do a pixel-by-pixel comparison.

Comment #43: paul  on  06/02  at  10:27 AM

And that’s because he’s taken pictures like that.  Which, I must point out, is neither wrong nor illegal.

And not necessarily salacious. He jokingly said “I wish” (ie) “that’s not my penis” on Rachel Maddow’s show last night. Which means there might have been a photo of him lounging or sleeping on the couch. Maybe he was holding the adorable new kitten. But when you crop and photoshop, even an innocent picture of home life can turn into a sexy snap.

Comment #44: Mighty Ponygirl  on  06/02  at  12:04 PM

“But when you crop and photoshop, even an innocent picture of home life can turn into a sexy snap.”

In fact, there is (or at least used to be, before the intertubes) a whole subculture of perverts whose thing is cropping ordinary pictures of women and girls to show only upper torso or crotch. Some very strange laws and judicial decisions have been written in attempts to deal with them.

Comment #45: paul  on  06/02  at  12:12 PM

DAGCH - the variation I remember from when I lived in coastal Texas was:
“Ignorance can be fixed; stupid is forever.”

Comment #46: helen w. h.  on  06/02  at  02:31 PM

I think this thread is way too credulous and, in fact, is reminiscent of the NUMEROUS threads defending Edwards and the NUMEROUS people, including people who should have known better, who said they believed Bill Clinton.

I am content to wait for the evidence to actually come in. To me, though, this looks really bad, and not the least because one has to wonder why the heck there are pictures of Mr. Weiner’s turgid, underpants-clad genitalia that are available for some hacker to tweet in the first place. Is he that stupid to take these sorts of pictures while serving in Congress.

But OK, if he establishes that this is what happened, I will credit him a slight demerit for stupidity and go after whoever did this full throttle.

I think, however, that people need to also consider the possibility that this guy actually did this. I will harken back to what I said in the thread where Amanda posted her theory that there was a difference between men who cheat on their wives and sexual predators—in fact, there are also some correlations as well. Gingrich, Edwards, and Clinton have all been accused not only of cheating but in engaging in cruel conduct towards women. Brett Favre, the last person accused of this particular offense, was obviously sexually predatory as well.

One thing I know is just because someone is a friend to the left doesn’t mean he can’t also be a sexual harasser. Let’s keep our powder dry until the facts come out here.

Comment #47: Dilan Esper  on  06/02  at  04:11 PM

In fact, there is (or at least used to be, before the intertubes) a whole subculture of perverts whose thing is cropping ordinary pictures of women and girls to show only upper torso or crotch.

You have no idea the amount of harassment knitters get on Flickr because of sock pictures. Sweaters too, but a lot less than sock knitters, I guess because sweater fetishists have more easily found unwitting sources.

Comment #48: colorlessblue  on  06/02  at  04:27 PM

Dilan, so far the best piece of evidence against this being true is that it came from Brietbart.  That piece alone makes me lean towards the story not being on the up and up, given his track record.

Comment #49: LC  on  06/02  at  06:57 PM

Why is it that nobody’s pulled this same hack on Breitbart’s twitter and yfrog accounts, or that patriot76 guy? If anybody’s asking for it…

Comment #50: snobographer  on  06/02  at  08:34 PM

So nobody’s reading this thread anymore I guess, but the latest is this “patriot76” guy can’t talk to Andrew Breitbart because he’s having personal problems with his divorce court extortionist ex-wife and “crazy” ex-girlfriend and doesn’t want information to get out that could cause him to lose his job. Ha! Predictable. His name is Dan Wolfe. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/bizarre/dan-wolfe-anthony-weiner-weinergate-632095

Comment #51: snobographer  on  06/02  at  11:09 PM

helen w.h., my family is from the north Tx/southern OK cotton country, I just learned a month or so ago that my grandmother Avengers’  “Fair to middling” response to How are you doing?  is from cotton country lingo. 

I lived in dynamic Denton when Pater Avenger was taking classes at North Texas State, which had, and hopefully still has, a library to die for.  I was reading first editions of literary works and all sorts of shit using my fathers’ library card, which made up for the relative cultural desert that was Texas back then.

Comment #52: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  06/03  at  12:02 PM

There’s one aspect of this that nobody’s mentioned yet - maybe because it’s too obvious. But the claim that he can’t be innocent because this isn’t the way innocent people behave - they scream, they make threats, they lose it, and so on - is ignoring the fact that this is a politician who is used to being in the public eye.

It’s completely ridiculous to assume that Weiner’s reaction to this is exactly equal to his public reaction to this. He may well be screaming and shouting, making threats, and typing things in all caps, and being smart enough, or having handlers smart enough, not to express that aspect of things to the world.

This is part and parcel of the idea of electing the President of the United States because he’s the kind of guy you’d like to have a beer with. Or go helicopter-based wildlife slaughtering with. It completely ignores the ideas of professionalism, of classiness, or even of having a PR staff. And to claim that ignoring those things constitutes a clear picture of how people works makes Ace of Spades an idiot.

Comment #53: Lymis  on  06/05  at  05:13 PM

Well, the other brief just dropped.

Comment #54: Dilan Esper  on  06/06  at  04:40 PM

“His accusers would be better off producing real evidence, and their inability to do this is the story here.”

LOL! Not anymore!

Weiner was lying from the get go. He wasn’t being harassed. He brought this on himself. Time for you to eat some crow and humble pie. Politics has become tribal and I think it is time for you to admit that you were only defending Mr. Weiner because he belonged to the D tribe instead of the R tribe.

Comment #55: Mr. Moke  on  06/06  at  11:06 PM
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