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Next entry: That Christian love you hear so much about Previous entry: Not that complicated

This Is What Grammar Jesus Made Awkward Ellipses For

Megan McArdle, economist-always-in-training, argues against health insurance using quite possibly the worst argument ever:

Ezra asks why, if I think thebenefits of health insurance are so minimal, I have health insurance.  Revealed preference!  Gotcha!

But the answer as to why I have health insurance is simple:  my employer pays for it.  If my employer didn’t pay for it, I wouldn’t have it.  I’d buy a catastrophic policy from a reputable insurer to cover any amount that might bankrupt me, and self-insure for everything else.  That would probably cost me a little more than what I pay The Atlantic for my first-dollar coverage, so I opt for the first-dollar coverage.  It’s not like I get the money The Atlantic is spending on my benefits back if I choose to go without.

Okay, fine, fine, she gets insurance because she’s required to.  But that doesn’t really explain why her preferred option is any better, particularly as she’s fond of talking of her many, many, many health ailments ad nauseum.

But do I think I would be noticeably more likely to die if I did give up my policy?  Certainly not for the next twenty years, because I am unlikely to get cancer much before 65, and everything else that might kill me would be treated on an emergent basis, where insurance probably wouldn’t affect my outcomes nearly as much as the fact that I am an upper middle class professional with a (soon to be) husband who writes about health care policy for a living and a father who used to work for the New York City health and hospitals corporation, both of whom will no doubt be sitting on top of the doctors and the hospital bureaucracy to make sure I get excellent care.

So, her main argument against health insurance is that she as an individual happens to have really good connections who will scream and hold their breath until precious Megan gets what she needs (and left unsaid is that said connections will also help her pay for her healthcare).

Morbidity?  Maybe.  But we’re more likely to take out a second mortgage to cover physical therapy than we are to go without.

I’m pretty sure my life would be, on net, better if I had the cash wages and a catastrophic policy instead of the health benefits.  As someone who’s moderately sickly, I’ve spent a lot of my life worrying over false positives from tests of dubious pertinence, and no time at all treating conditions we caught early.

This is incoherent - her life would be better not having a system which moderates the cost of her healthcare because she’s had a diversity of treatment experiences?  This is like arguing that it’s okay to eat raw chicken off the floor because sometimes Panera has good soup and sometimes it doesn’t have enough salt in it. 

But the system is not set up to facilitate real insurance; it’s set up to hide the cost of medical treatment from as many people as possible, because we have developed a social belief that no one should have to consider the cost of medical care, except maybe your friendly neighborhood bureaucrat.

No, actually, even people with health insurance consider the cost of health care.  Because there’s no form of health insurance which makes things free - even (or especially) socialized healthcare.  McArdle’s entire premise is that everyone else is as bad at economics on a micro and a macro level as she is, and so the communal subsidization of healthcare costs becomes a grave social evil because they don’t understand that the actual cost of their doctor visit was any higher than their co-pay.  It’s not just that people are supposed to assume that the only cost of their going to the doctor is the $20 they pay because of a negotiated insurance agreement; it’s that they’re also too fucking stupid to read the numerous documents they get from both their insurer and doctor telling them otherwise.

All of this hints at the problems that plague many of the studies Ezra and others have been citing, showing marvelous results from insurance:  as I said in the beginning, uninsured are not like the rest of us.  Do I think that my risks would shoot up to match those found by the studies Ezra likes?  No I do not, and I doubt that Ezra would try to argue otherwise.

Megan, you marvelous dumbass, you’re not like the rest of us.  Saying that a chunk of 40 million people isn’t like a chunk of 260 million people doesn’t become the “Megan McArdle is really awesome” show.  This isn’t even a clever diversion, which is the sad part - it’s just naked egotism masquerading as a policy argument.

I have immense resources at my disposal, most of them non-monetary.  There are many ways in which I would like to even out those differences, but privilege cannot be transferred into someone else’s checking account.  Indeed, as libertarians are fond of pointing out, government systems can frequently end up catering to privilege even more than the private sector; check out which post codes in Britain or Canada get the best medical services, or check out the massive disparities between the educations received by the poor children in New York City public schools, and the educations received by the middle class kids whose parents lightheartedly imagine that by siphoning an excess share of the system’s resources into their little darlings, they are somehow supporting the cause of educational equality.

Shorter this argument: “I gots a rich daddee!  My daddee has a nice car and I am going to have a pony at my next birthday!  You have dirty shoes, so we can’t be friends.”

But I digress.

From talking about yourself?  Never.

If I suddenly lost my health insurance, I would still be a comfortably middle class person who would pay my doctor’s bills out of pocket, and wouldn’t miss an important checkup with the pulmonologist or the immunologist.  I would be, well, pretty much like I was during the years that I was uninsured, and spending quite a large portion of my meager earnings on doctors bills.  I might end up bankrupt.  But outside of the kind of fluke that afflicts any system from time to time, I would not end up dead.

Is the argument now that Megan McArdle’s bankruptcy is a better fate than her having health insurance?  Because if that’s so, I don’t think anyone who’s spent more than five minutes reading what she writes would necessarily argue with.  But it’s not an argument about the efficacy of the health insurance system FOR 300 MILLION PEOPLE.

But now that the plane has been circling McArdle International Egoport for the past year (it feels like I’ve been reading this for that long), it’s time for it to zoom in and make its crash landing.  Oh, I do so love completely preventable tragedies.  You know, the kind you’d normally insure against if your father didn’t love you so much.  And by “love you”, I of course mean “have money and power”.

Nonetheless, I’d like to see us move to a system of government reinsurance of at least basic medical expenses over a certain percentage of income.

But not because I’m sure it would make us all noticeably healthier.  I have rather modest expectations along those lines.  But as fond as I am of easy bankruptcy, I’d still like to see less of it, particularly in cases where no amount of planning could have enabled an individual to avoid it.  Catastrophic medical bills fall into that category—and unfortunately, in many states regulations have made it impossible for people to obtain sensible catastrophic coverage.

Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems to be a contention that “catastrophic medical coverage” is what prevents catastrophes from happening.  Unless you’re in McArdle’s position (surprise!), a presumed system of catastrophic insurance means that the most likely situation which would produce bankruptcy (a sudden and completely debilitating illness or injury) would simply be hastened, because instead of distributing the initial cost of care for that condition over a number of months or years, it’s all forced onto the patient upfront.  So, you have a $10,000 deductible that you now owe, plus the normal costs of insurance-covered care - catastrophic health insurance isn’t a catch-all that magically makes healthcare free once you pay the toll of Aetna’s leprechauns, it’s actually more of a presumption that you’ll never actually face the catastrophes you’re now insured against. 

But now, at least, we have an alternative workable healthcare regime: lining up to brush Megan McArdle’s hair and tell her how awesome the paint colors in her room are. 

 

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Posted by Jesse Taylor on 01:12 AM • (96) Comments

McMegan proves once again that she is an over privileged, pampered idiot who should not be allowed to dress herself, let alone express an opinion.

Comment #1: DrDick  on  02/16  at  01:19 AM

But I digress.

From talking about yourself?  Never.

OK, I admit it, I laughed out loud.

Comment #2: sophronia  on  02/16  at  01:20 AM

She is monumentally self-absorbed.

Comment #3: jnfr  on  02/16  at  01:22 AM

Like I could really see her ever paying in full for the cost of a pregnancy.  BWAHHHHAAHAAAHHH!

Comment #4: Ms Kate  on  02/16  at  01:22 AM

The mind boggles. My co-pay isn’t the only cost for my doctor visits? Well, thanks Megan, but my $200 annual deductible was a pretty big hint all by itself. As was my multi-thousand-dollar nightmare two years ago, when I discovered what “out of network” means (it means “your insurance company is composed of megawatt assholes who think it’s unreasonable to expect full coverage within the state in which your insurance plan is administered.”). And yeah, luckily I had insurance, albeit insurance that refused to pay about $1500 worth of bills, and luckily my parents were able to cover my broke ass. Somehow I didn’t come out of the experience thinking that it all worked out because of how wonderful and smart and special I am.

Comment #5: grolby  on  02/16  at  01:24 AM

Yeah, every single libertarian I have ever met basically thinks the same exact shit:

I got mine, fuck you.

Seriously, you could replace everything she wrote with that and it would be exactly the same essay. She doesn’t believe in health insurance for anyone because she’s got a parent rich enough to cover any particular emergency. That’s not exactly a plan, honey, much less one that can be scaled to everyone seeing as you already made perfectly clear how you’re not sharing any of that immense privilege with the unwashed hordes.

Libertarianism isn’t a philosophy, it’s the unchecked id of a toddler in grown people’s bodies. Everything that’s necessary is everything they use and they shouldn’t have to pay for it, it should just automagically be there just like when they were a child and clean clothes would appear in the dresser and food would appear on the table and that’s how it should always be.

Comment #6: Cerberus  on  02/16  at  01:54 AM

If I suddenly lost my health insurance, I would still be a comfortably middle class person who would pay my doctor’s bills out of pocket, and wouldn’t miss an important checkup with the pulmonologist or the immunologist.  I would be, well, pretty much like I was during the years that I was uninsured, and spending quite a large portion of my meager earnings on doctors bills.  I might end up bankrupt.  But outside of the kind of fluke that afflicts any system from time to time, I would not end up dead.

Megan forgot to add in the additional costs for her specialists that are paid by out-of-pocket patients.  Health insurers can negotiate fees, but if you pay for it yourself, you’re SOL because doctors and hospitals can and will charge you twice as much [or more] fro the same service.

Comment #7: natural cynic  on  02/16  at  02:10 AM

OK, how do you remain ‘comfortably middle class’ when you are spending most of your ‘meager’ earnings on healthcare—to the point of bankruptcy?

Oh yeah.  Daddee will pay my billz for me!

Bankruptcy is not comfortable.

Comment #8: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  02/16  at  02:24 AM

So Amanda,

Linking to a terse piece that illustrates that, in fact you are so wrong about Megan McArdle and economics—she knows her stuff—would itself be so wrong?

Ah, come on, it’s so money. (Well, not really). Besides, not even my site or at least prolly not. 

Check Megan “I think my experience on health care relates to all Americans because mine is different from most Americans” McArdle out on basic economics:  She’s so good at it she picked up something no (ahem “other”) economist did! The “infamous JOBLESS recovery under Bill Clinton!!” 

(Actually, she probably meant the initial phase of the “recovery” under George Bush Senior, which of course didn’t kick into high gear until after Bill Clinton’s “economy destroying” tax increases, but was loathe not to take a shot at Clinton and thus be “fair and balanced” no matter how ridiculous her assertion was. It would look bad if she said “jobless recoveries under bush and bush.”)

I would like to comment more on McCardle’s health care article, but I don’t understand what she wrote.

It seems, in addition to sometimes enjoying Panera soup off the floor, sans the salt, she is also saying that she would be better off without health insurance because then she would never to go doctors and get ‘stupid tests” done, tests which she worries, about, but doesn’t do anything about.  I think it makes about the same sense, in terms of the rest of her piece. as xibu aiv obvuoi o biswja ztirgrnafw   fnvboii which come to think of it, is pretty much what she did write. 


And I kind of agree with her on the (maybe, sort of hinted) catastrophic insurance thing (catastrophic being defined by need, however, not some absolute dollar amount) despite her own seemingly absurd - xojg mo bimoioin xkbsl bion a bmi fkjloasghkm —arguments in favor of it; since it would help bring down health care costs and reduce health insurer’s increasingly intrusive role in practical doctor patient decision making.

Comment #9: Check it  on  02/16  at  02:28 AM

I might end up bankrupt.

and, IIRC, thanks to the new bankruptcy laws that the repugs pushed though, she’ll be in hock to the insurance companies for a long-ass time

Comment #10: preznit giv me turkee  on  02/16  at  02:28 AM

“So Amanda…”

I’m pretty sure Jesse answers to the name “Jesse”, and not “Amanda”, although I could be wrong…

Comment #11: MikeEss  on  02/16  at  02:32 AM

well, Check it, considering this post wasn’t even written by Amanda, I’ll assume the rest of your post holds about as much water

Comment #12: preznit giv me turkee  on  02/16  at  02:32 AM

Check it, I would totally respond to what you said if it consisted of coherent sentences.

Comment #13: Jesse Taylor  on  02/16  at  02:35 AM

because I am unlikely to get cancer much before 65,

Wow.  I wonder how she can even make this assumption.  I bet my mother would have something to say about this.  That is, if she hadn’t died of cancer at the age of 49 after a 7 year battle.

Oh, or my grandfather.  But wait…he dropped dead of a heart attack at the age of 42.  Or maybe my brother’s best friend from high school.  Who died of cancer at the ripe old age of 20. 

The “none of us should worry about health insurance because I happen to be well off enough to pay for medical care myself” is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever read.  I say this as a currently unemployed person who is paying over $600/month for my individual COBRA coverage.  Aside from my mortgage, this is the largest individual expense that I have. And that’s with the fact that none of my doctors actually take my insurance, so I pay full freight until I hit my deductible.  And I wouldn’t DREAM of giving up my insurance.

Comment #14: sam  on  02/16  at  02:45 AM

Well, I imagine most illnesses must seem trivial to McArdle, after facing whatever serious childhood disease damaged her brain like that.

Comment #15: Jake  on  02/16  at  02:59 AM

It seems, in addition to sometimes enjoying Panera soup off the floor, sans the salt, she is also saying that she would be better off without health insurance because then she would never to go doctors and get ‘stupid tests” done, tests which she worries about, but doesn’t do anything about.

Oddly enough, that’s how I thought about my dental health back when I didn’t have dental insurance—if nothing was obviously wrong or painful, then everything must be fine!  Three root canals and five crowns later, I have at least discovered the folly of that way of thinking.  I don’t think McMegan would be able to make that association, though.

Comment #16: Mnemosyne  on  02/16  at  03:02 AM

because I am unlikely to get cancer much before 65,

Even assuming McArdle’s already had a radical hysterectomy and pre-emptive mastectomies, she still has lungs and a colon, right? If all “unlikely” means is “probably won’t happen,” that’s not too reassuring. I have collision insurance even though I have historically avoided crashing my car.

Comment #17: Hector B.  on  02/16  at  03:18 AM

“My husband and my daddy will take care of me” pretty much sums up the article.

Comment #18: mythago  on  02/16  at  03:21 AM

““well, Check it, considering this post wasn’t even written by Amanda, I’ll assume the rest of your post holds about as much water”“

Comment was for Amanda, regardless of who wrote the post, but thanks for the friendliness and biting sarcasm. guess you don’t get to use that too often in your day job—although I notice from the comments, it seems to be a prety common trait?

““Check it, I would totally respond to what you said if it consisted of coherent sentences.”

Yeah, it was pretty hard to figure out, wasn’t it. Maybe if you read your original post again, and read McArdle’s article, you might have a shot.

Naah.

Ur problly better at being a snide wise azz critic than anything else, and since ur in critique mode of mcardle, why not just fire some more. 

Right? Anyway, Jesse, u are prolly right, I should have noticed it was written by you, my total bad on that.  Anyway, the panera on the floor part of the comment (since I assume you didn’t understand any of it) was actually your part.  was supposed to be funny. ha ha. sense of humor is like dried mud. but then, they say that about liberals sometimes. 

Or am I wrong again.  I could be. 

At least we both agree that McArdle’s columns are atrocious, right?  (If you look really carefully at my comment, you will see that it does suggest that rather emphatically.)

Comment #19: Check it  on  02/16  at  03:23 AM

OMFG. McArdle is breathtakingly ignorant. Of her own medical bills, for one thing—-surely she must have noticed the dramatic difference between the original charge and the negotiated-down charge actually paid by the insurance company (sans her co-pay and deductible). On my bills, it’s anywhere from a 50% to a 75% cost savings just for having insurance.

Gotta love those “libertarians” who don’t want national healthcare because it would “force” them to pay for someone else’s (or even their own!) healthcare, but then back it up with a reminder that if the shit did indeed hit the fan for them, that wealthy loved ones would be picking up the check. Yeah, baby. Personal responsibility, my ass.

And this: as I said in the beginning, uninsured are not like the rest of us......fuck you, McArdle. The rest of who? Over one third of my Local is unemployed due to this shitty economy, and those not lucky enough to have spouses with insurance coverage are….exactly like the rest of us, the people fortunate enough to still be employed, yet not fortunate enough to be able to talk out of our asses about our relative likelihood of getting sick or injured or disabled against our ability to convince some (nonexistant, for us) rich relation to pony up the cash for our care. Cerberus had it right at #6.

Comment #20: La Lubu  on  02/16  at  03:24 AM

I am amazed that anyone can miss the point so badly. Ezra’s article that she links to specifically says that he’s talking about the benefits of health insurance *for those who can’t afford it* (for those who didn’t click through, his article is quite well-written). How you go from an article with the thesis is ‘health care reform seems to benefit those who cannot afford health care on their own’ to ‘well I can afford health care, so your point is disproven’ is beyond me.

Comment #21: jalmondale  on  02/16  at  03:34 AM

What part of this is supposed to be coherent?

Of course insurance hides the costs from you.  If you knew they were skipping out on paying for your local hospital, would you buy their services?

Comment #22: Crissa  on  02/16  at  03:51 AM

Mnem,

On a substantive point:

Oddly enough, that’s how I thought about my dental health back when I didn’t have dental insurance—if nothing was obviously wrong or painful, then everything must be fine!  Three root canals and five crowns later, I have at least discovered the folly of that way of thinking.  I don’t think McMegan would be able to make that association, though.

Yeah, getting regular dental check ups—pretty key.  I think your point above may have been part of what Jesse Taylor was getting at, though I’m not sure.  I think it’s a good point, but I have a different take, understanding that a lot of people may disagree.

We should be responsible for our health.  If we have health insurance, maybe we are more likely to go to a doctor.  It may work that way in reality (putting aside Doctor McArdle’s idiotic “emergency rooms will save me” health logic.)  But should it?

For some of us that can’t get their butts to the doctor, maybe it is helpful, since the money has been “spent” already; but really we should be able to make good decisions about our own health care without having to bribe ourselves by having paid (a lot more) to a middleman in advance.

I mean, ideally, anyway. 

Separately, I’m loathe to give a nod to group opinion—I think its self reinforcing on the Internet and tends to stifle genuine breadth of perspective rather than accommodation into generic and somewhat self reinforcing if insular camps (Jesse, cliff notes for you at bottom)—but if this site or any other tried to draft up some sort of the petition for the Atlantic to stop wasting columns on McArdle’s opionionating, I’d sign it.

McArdle’s (and others) helping to lead the charge of opinion shaping is how America gets Palins giving speeches on serious subjects all the time.  (Oh, damn, speaking of which, it’s time for a gratuitous link. It’s not bad, actually, and again, not mine (I say) , so….. why Palin, partisanship aside, should not be playing nearly the role she is in shaping the debate in America today.

Comment #23: Check it  on  02/16  at  04:00 AM

I am amazed that anyone can miss the point so badly. Ezra’s article that she links to specifically says that he’s talking about the benefits of health insurance *for those who can’t afford it* (for those who didn’t click through, his article is quite well-written). How you go from an article with the thesis is ‘health care reform seems to benefit those who cannot afford health care on their own’ to ‘well I can afford health care, so your point is disproven’ is beyond me.

Hence, among other reasons, my point above about making some sort of case to the Atlantic.

Comment #24: Check it  on  02/16  at  04:04 AM

Many of the comments to her post are seriously, seriously depressing.

Comment #25: teabea  on  02/16  at  04:06 AM

Ouch. I just read a good chunk of the reader comments from McArdle’s supporters and I might need to drag my uninsured ass to the emergency room to stop my eyes from bleeding.

I think what astounds me the most about many of the comments and large chunks of McArdle’s article is the reduction of the issue of health care reform to an us/them argument. There is so much more at play than just who can afford it and who cannot and how to deal with the consequences.

It also astounds me how obtuse McArdle is about matters of employment, income, health care and health. There is a huge cascading effect from the loss of any one of these that she glibly asserts by which she will not be affected. Given that there are people (her people even) who go from very comfortable to destitute in a pretty short period of time I am floored by her mulish arrogance.

Comment #26: HooksInMyHead  on  02/16  at  04:19 AM

I like how if we don’t have health insurance and have to pay large medical bills, the solution in McArdleWorld is to just take out a second mortgage on the house.  Because everyone on the planet is a homeowner, right?

Comment #27: Cornpone Down Under  on  02/16  at  04:42 AM

Eff her and her rich daddy. I just spent all day in the fucking ER and left after getting just enough treatment to be stabilized and sent home. It was not a fun way to spend a day and I’m still sick from all the meds they pumped into my IV, but that’s how it goes when you’re uninsured (and uninsurable due to a pre-existing condition, k thx.) Not that McArdle cares, since I’m not like her.

I’m not a violent person, but I’d like to punch her in the throat.

Comment #28: jessilikewhoa  on  02/16  at  05:03 AM

For some of us that can’t get their butts to the doctor, maybe it is helpful, since the money has been “spent” already; but really we should be able to make good decisions about our own health care without having to bribe ourselves by having paid (a lot more) to a middleman in advance.

because all of us can afford paying upwards of $200 just to be let into the waiting room on a regular basis, right?

seriously, the last thorough checkup of just my girl-parts cost about $1200. I don’t have that much money just lying around, you know.

Comment #29: jadehawk  on  02/16  at  05:03 AM

Oh, Megan McArdle.  Her chatty writing style almost, but not quite, masks the fact that what she’s actually writing is always some combination of sociopathically self-centered and blithely incoherent.  She usually starts contradicting herself a couple of paragraphs into any given post.

What I’m getting from this one is that McArdle likes to imagine she’d be a brave little cowgirl if she didn’t have health insurance; she’d have ever so much fun slumming it, skipping checkups and paying for little things out of pocket like the poor people do, and in her fantasy she’d be tough enough to ignore the ten million ailments that currently send her scurrying to a doctor at every twinge.  Until something really serious happened, of course, at which point her rich family would step in to pay the bills.  And that’s why nobody in this country needs health coverage!  Because Megan McArdle has a rich family and no idea how medicine works!

“Uninsured are not like the rest of us” is a wonderfully evocative phrase, isn’t it?  You can just picture Gatsby and Daisy saying it, laughing, as they run over another poor person with their big yellow car.

Comment #30: Shaenon  on  02/16  at  05:49 AM

Incidentally, the full sentence is, “All of this hints at the problems that plague many of the studies Ezra and others have been citing, showing marvelous results from insurance:  as I said in the beginning, uninsured are not like the rest of us.”

Except that, if you go back to the beginning of the post, she doesn’t say that.  Because I hate myself, I went back and read the earlier posts Ezra was replying to, and she doesn’t say it there, either.  I have no idea what “uninsured are not like the rest of us” means in this context.  Sure, when my teabagger relatives down South say it, it means “the uninsured are black people,” but I don’t know what it means to McArdle.

Those earlier posts are pretty bad, incidentally.  McArdle’s original argument, which she’s all but forgotten by now, was that we don’t need universal health coverage because, even if it improves public health and puts an end to medical-cost-related bankruptcies, it won’t save anyone from actually, literally dying.  How does she know this?  Well, she has a feeling.  She cheerfully admits she has no evidence, but, well, she “just doesn’t trust statistics,” and it seems like common sense, doesn’t it?  Just like it’s common sense that the minimum wage hurts the economy and public schools are a waste of taxpayer money.  This stuff is so obvious, who needs facts?

Comment #31: Shaenon  on  02/16  at  06:23 AM

Shaenon:

McArdle’s original argument, which she’s all but forgotten by now, was that we don’t need universal health coverage because, even if it improves public health and puts an end to medical-cost-related bankruptcies, it won’t save anyone from actually, literally dying.

Gotta love that. “Everyone’s just going to die anyway, so why bother even trying to make anyone’s life better?”

And they have the nerve to call us nihilists.

Comment #32: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  02/16  at  07:15 AM

She cheerfully admits she has no evidence, but, well, she “just doesn’t trust statistics,” and it seems like common sense, doesn’t it?  Just like it’s common sense that the minimum wage hurts the economy and public schools are a waste of taxpayer money.  This stuff is so obvious, who needs facts?

It’s great when the entire basis for an opinion is “I have an opinion!”

Comment #33: Jesse Taylor  on  02/16  at  08:42 AM

Megan McArdle is proof that you need neither writing skill nor a functioning brain to get a really good job as a writer.

When the revolution comes, we’re going to run out of walls to put people up against.  :/

Comment #34: Scott  on  02/16  at  09:26 AM

Wow.

I’ve never read anything so sociopathic, so self-involved, so egotistical, so spoiled and so privileged in my entire life.

People who don’t live in the real world really shouldn’t be writing about it.

Comment #35: Karmakin  on  02/16  at  09:35 AM

I can’t help but think as long as she’s a cancer on the public discourse, it’s probably best she spins her wheels arguing against health insurance.  It’s like arguing that you don’t need fresh fruit and vegetables, because McDonald’s provides you enough energy to live until you’re 40 or so, and then you should just drop dead anyway.

Comment #36: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/16  at  10:05 AM

Of course, without basic prevention available to most of the public, catastrophic insurance would go through the roof in terms of expense, since catastrophes are often caused by delaying medical care until it’s really way too late for it to be cheap.

Comment #37: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/16  at  10:32 AM

McArdle’s original argument, which she’s all but forgotten by now, was that we don’t need universal health coverage because, even if it improves public health and puts an end to medical-cost-related bankruptcies, it won’t save anyone from actually, literally dying.

That pisses me off too, Shaenon. Healthcare improves one’s quality of life—-and that’s good enough. My local newspaper has been running a series on dental care and the lack thereof for people without insurance. Most dentists around here do not accept Medicaid reimbursement for adults (or aren’t taking new patients); the few that do are centered around Chicago or the Metro East (St.Louis), so most of those needing care have no means of transportation to get there. I suppose McArdle would claim that since a person can still breathe without teeth, look at the cost savings! Except, there really isn’t any cost savings, since ERs still get visits from patients in agony, some with emergent systemic infection that started with their teeth.

Comment #38: La Lubu  on  02/16  at  10:41 AM

What makes Meggers so sure her not-quite-yet-husband wouldn’t quote some Randian Imperative and kick her to the curb if she started running up supersized uninsured medical bills? Wouldn’t be the first time.

Comment #39: stryx  on  02/16  at  10:43 AM

outside of the kind of fluke that afflicts any system from time to time, I would not end up dead.

Doesn’t she realize that “the kind of fluke that afflicts any system from time to time” is exactly what’s being played out 18,000 times a year for people without health insurance?

Comment #40: Tyro  on  02/16  at  11:00 AM

All this again highlights how misleading the phrase “health insurance” really is, and how the insurance model doesn’t fit well as a solution to paying for healthcare.

Insurance, in general, is a necessary evil that, if you’re lucky, will pay to rebuild your house after a fire, or replace your car after its totaled in an accident.

But healthcare is something that must be paid for from (before) the moment you’re born right through to the moment you die.

If you buy a Corvette, you know up front that (actuarial tables dictate) you’ll pay much more to insurance than if you bought a Corolla.  But healthcare costs vary wildly, and randomly, with the only surety being that you will incur more as you get older, and no guarantee you’ll avoid problems when you’re younger.

If I hadn’t had (unappreciated by me previously) good health coverage when I first got cancer in 2000 (at age 39), I’d probably be dead now, and I probably would have left behind a bankrupt wife and child, who both need their own healthcare too.

Bad shit happens, even to “good” people.  And unless you’re a sociopath, or an idiot, you know that what happens to other people affects you, either directly or indirectly.  And as McMegan implies, the ER provides the medical care of last resort — at humongous cost, and in the least effective way.  So even the “not like us” people get healthcare and we all pay for it.  Let me emphasize that: We already pay to cover people who can’t get health coverage except through the ER.  We just pay for it in the most expensive and least effective way.

Anybody with any sense can understand that we should pool all people’s healthcare costs, so all can get preventive care that might forestall other, bigger, problems, and so we will be covered in the event of catastrophic healthcare needs.

“Health Insurance” companies must be hacked down to size and cut out of the process as much as possible.  They are leeches who provide some benefits while incurring great costs.  Their presence in the healthcare equation between care provider and patient does little but complicate things, and costs are increased because they must be dealt with.  They are bureaucratic organizations that are designed to be difficult to deal with.  They have somehow been able to exempt themselves from anti-trust laws.  They are the most important factor in accelerating health costs.

And, putting American exceptionalism aside, the experiences other countries have had with universal healthcare of just about any type prove that health goes up and costs go down.

Let the health insurance companies offer the wealthy some sort of “platinum” coverage so if they’re stuck in the hospital with the proles they can at least have a private room, or provide the McMegans of the world with their own grotesquely expensive gold-plated hospitals or something…

Comment #41: MikeEss  on  02/16  at  11:11 AM

stryx—very good point!

Ah, how does Megan know that she won’t get cancer much before 65?  I knew a very nice guy in science fiction fandom who developed one of those really rare cancers and was dead in his 30s.  It didn’t matter that he had health care—there wasn’t a treatment that could cure him.  Treatment just kept him comfortable.  One of my best friends fought breast cancer (double mastectomy, bone marrow transplant, chemo and radiation) for 6 or 7 years… but it had spread to her lungs and brain and she died before she was 51. Megan’s fucking retard.

Comment #42: PurpleGirl  on  02/16  at  11:20 AM

What makes Meggers so sure her not-quite-yet-husband wouldn’t quote some Randian Imperative and kick her to the curb if she started running up supersized uninsured medical bills? Wouldn’t be the first time.

John McCain!  His wife was in a horrible car accident while he was a POW that left her with lifelong injuries and need.  John missed his beauty pageant wife and took up with Cindy.  The Reagans wouldn’t have anything to do with him after that, and, in fact, helped the first Mrs. McCain by employing her in St. Ronnie’s administration.

Who woulda thunk Ronnie could literally be more compassionate than another mainstream Republican?

Comment #43: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  02/16  at  11:51 AM

Why would McArdle think that her personal, idiosyncratic experience can be generalized to a policy for 300 million people? Especially when that experience is self-evidently atypical. Who cares what she would do if she found herself uninsured? This isn’t remotely about her or anyone like her.

Comment #44: Jerry Vinokurov  on  02/16  at  11:59 AM

“This isn’t remotely about her or anyone like her.”

Yes it is!  And that comment proves just how jealous you are of her and her awsomness!  You wish you could be her (everybody does), you wish you were as smart and talented she is.  It’s typical of you leftists that you can’t appreciate how lucky we are to have her share her magnificent mind and wondrous thoughts with us…

Comment #45: MikeEss  on  02/16  at  12:22 PM

anyone who publicly admits to subscribing to “libertarian” theory automatically abdicates any right to be taken seriously, in any discussion about economics. anyone who publicly admits to taking ayn rand seriously (jane galt), and is older than 16, shouldn’t be allowed near a keyboard, typewriter or lecturn.

reading ms. mcardle’s incoherant excuse for an “opinion” was not only intellectually painful, it was a waste of valuable time, time i’ll never recover. where can i send the invoice for my billable hour?

Comment #46: cpinva  on  02/16  at  12:26 PM

Over one third of my Local is unemployed due to this shitty economy

La Lubu: I’m going to get the exact wording wrong, but my neighbor the carpenter was able to bank his hours (or something) when he was working so that he would continue to get benefits when he was laid off. Does that not happen in your union? Or have people already run through their banked time?

Comment #47: Hector B.  on  02/16  at  12:30 PM

Yes it is!  And that comment proves just how jealous you are of her and her awsomness!  You wish you could be her (everybody does), you wish you were as smart and talented she is.  It’s typical of you leftists that you can’t appreciate how lucky we are to have her share her magnificent mind and wondrous thoughts with us…

You’re right, I am jealous. I mean, I too would love to be making bank writing all sorts of complete nonsense for a major publication while being insulated from the tribulations of normal life. That would be, like, totally sweet.

Comment #48: Jerry Vinokurov  on  02/16  at  12:39 PM

You probably wouldn’t guess it by looking at me, but I totally got cancer at 32!  In my happy pretty smiling wedding pictures?  I totes have cancer!  I was “lucky” in that it was Thyroid Cancer, which is one of the most treatable and I had insurance, but I still had a painful major operation and am feeling the side effects to this day!  Lucky me!

And I saw those bills from the hospital - there’s no way I could have afforded the surgery and overnight stay.  I’d have had to ask my rich father to help.  But I actually don’t consider that the good option - I’d rather we all get healthcare!

Comment #49: Mimi  on  02/16  at  12:48 PM

wow, Megan might lack self-awareness.  She seems to be saying if you don’t have someone willing to bancrupt themselves to take care of you, then your life isn’t worth living anyway.

I feel sorry for the guy she is about to marry

Comment #50: John Rove  on  02/16  at  12:57 PM

Jerry, I’m jealous too.  But you need to be a completely amoral, soulless, Randroid to make that kind of gig work, and as McMegan has made painfully clear, she’s not like the rest of us...

Comment #51: MikeEss  on  02/16  at  12:58 PM

Er.  While her post is full of major major problems the comments on here seem to be seriously missing her point. 

She’s saying that she is going to have a good health outcome because she is privileged not because she is insured.  That people who are uninsured are not privileged and will have lower outcomes even if they do have insurance.  She is aknowledging her privilege and saying that’s the key factor in different outcomes not insurance.  She’s even probably right. 

However the implication that just because the outcomes of non privileged people (with a support network, wealthy relatives etc.) aren’t going to reach the outcomes of privileged people we should even bother bettering their outcomes at all by providing them with insurance is monstrous. 

She sucks, yes absolutely and maybe even doesn’t make sense but to accuse her of saying everyone is just like her or of being privileged when she actually make those points correctly is weird.

Comment #52: Victoria  on  02/16  at  01:14 PM

What was that song that had the line, “If you called your Dad he could stop it all”?  Seems appropriate to play it while reading her screed.  Relying on catastrophic coverage alone will still leave millions running to the ER for chronic illnesses, where treatment costs the most and the bill gets passed on anyway.

What an unbelievable spoiled brat.  I’m fortunate enough to have family that could help me out if I had crippling medical bills, but that doesn’t make me a Randian Superman standing astride the globe like a colossus of rugged individualism.  It makes me lucky.  It damn sure doesn’t mean I don’t have a stake in getting health care to all Americans.  The current system is on borrowed time and it’ll be a disaster for our country when it collapses.

Comment #53: Sour Kraut  on  02/16  at  01:18 PM

“Indeed, as libertarians are fond of pointing out, government systems can frequently end up catering to privilege even more than the private sector”

Probably because the private sector has to take something for themselves, while government systems can turn around and put everything not sucked up by overhead straight back into the system.  You get more back from a government system than you do from a private system; there’s a floor when it comes to the cost of running things in both, but the private sector just collects more profit if you pay more.  The public sector gives you more back if you pay more.  If you’re rich enough to put way more in, you’re going to see a far better return than someone who can barely put enough in to keep the system going.

And of course what those libertarians generally miss is that the rich and the privileged will always get better and more and catered to.  The point of government systems is to make sure the poor and the under- or unprivileged get something, and that that something is not in fact lemon-scented nothing.

Comment #54: preying mantis  on  02/16  at  01:37 PM

When Megan goes to pay for her medical care without her insurance, is she going to pay the hyper-inflated “list” price for her care? Because what the doctors put on the bills is almost always at least twice what the insurance company actually allows.

The last bill I looked at was for step-daughter’s routine checkup:
Doctor’s bill: $500.
Insurance company-allowed charge: $60.
Insurance payment $50
Our cost $10.

At the bottom of this tallying, insurance company gleefully told us we “saved” $490. Which, of course, is all bullshit and accounting games. The doctor’s visit wouldn’t cost anyone $500, except possibly the poor schmuck who thought he could access healthcare without insurance.

It’s a thoroughly effed up system.

Comment #55: Phoebe Fay  on  02/16  at  01:40 PM

Bad shit happens, even to “good” people.  And unless you’re a sociopath, or an idiot, you know that what happens to other people affects you, either directly or indirectly.  And as McMegan implies, the ER provides the medical care of last resort — at humongous cost, and in the least effective way.  So even the “not like us” people get healthcare and we all pay for it.  Let me emphasize that: We already pay to cover people who can’t get health coverage except through the ER. We just pay for it in the most expensive and least effective way.

I don’t really have anything to add. I just wanted to second the above sentiment from MikeEss. Well said, sir!

Comment #56: phil zombi  on  02/16  at  01:41 PM

John McCain!  His wife was in a horrible car accident while he was a POW that left her with lifelong injuries and need.  John missed his beauty pageant wife and took up with Cindy.

Didn’t that also happen to Ayn Rand?

Comment #57: realityfighter  on  02/16  at  01:53 PM

Purplegirl, check your ableism.

Comment #58: leedevious  on  02/16  at  01:55 PM

Someone pays her to write this drivel???

I was always pretty healthy except for an accident that was covered by worker’s comp (and involved 8 surgeries). About 6 years ago, I was diagnosed with asthma and arthritis. The arthritis is a direct result of that accident and my genetics. The asthma? My copay is $90 a month for that med. A little more than a year ago, out of the blue I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis. Without insurance, my interferon drug would cost me about $30,000 (yeah, 30K) a year. With it, I still pay $75 a month. Then there are all the drugs to cope with the MS. Cymbalta (another $100/mo). Nuvigil to help with fatigue (About $200/mo), Ativan to deal with the tremors, Ambien to deal with the insomnia (yeah, both fatigue and insomnia, it’s a weird disease). Then there are the drugs to help me cope with the side effects of those drugs listed above. Nuvigil gives me migraines. The interferon destroys my weekends and I’m on vicodin most of the weekend for the pain the Avonex causes. Then of course, there’s the 4x yearly bloodwork to ensure all of these drugs havent destroyed my liver, the 4x annual visits to: Opthamlogist, Neurologist, GP. Oh yeah and MRIs every 2 years. Plus, if the MS acts up badly, a 5 day visit to the hospital for round the clock IV steroids.

NONE of this would be covered by catastrophic policies as MS is not life threatening. But paying for all of this - just the copays - while trying to put my kid through college sure as hell has had an enormous impact on my financial well being. It’s depressing as hell. And that of course, means yet another drug.

Comment #59: Broce  on  02/16  at  02:14 PM

Setting aside every other thing that’s idiotic about everything McArdle says - or put another way, setting aside absolutely everything about everything McArdle says - can’t you opt out of company health insurance and just take the money in wages or somesuch? I am pretty sure my employer allows this, I thought it was standard?

Comment #60: Dan  on  02/16  at  02:22 PM

Sour Kraut: “Common People” by Pulp, from the album Different Class (1997). There’s a good comic-book rendering of the song by Gorillaz creator Jamie Hewlett, too.

Comment #61: AJ Kandy  on  02/16  at  02:28 PM

We already pay to cover people who can’t get health coverage except through the ER. We just pay for it in the most expensive and least effective way.

Generally the overarching philosophy of wingnuttia seems to be “we’re happy to spend any amount of mony on anything, as long as it’s completely fucking stupid and vicious.” They only ever really get pissed when you want to throw some cash into something that might do a decent job making people’s lives less shitty.

Comment #62: Dan  on  02/16  at  02:37 PM

Er.  While her post is full of major major problems the comments on here seem to be seriously missing her point. 

We’re distracted by all the dumbass remarks she makes on the way to making her point.

Perhaps she could learn to craft a tighter argument, without all the stuff that makes you say, WTF? Just sayin’.

Comment #63: Hector B.  on  02/16  at  03:03 PM

William Shatner also did a version of “Common People” which inspired a neat Lego animation.

Comment #64: Quijotesca  on  02/16  at  03:28 PM

Sour Kraut and AJ Kandy beat me to it. That was the song I was going to cue, myself.

Comment #65: maatnofret  on  02/16  at  03:37 PM

For once, Chet and I agree!  Wow!

Might I also add that, if anything, Americans consume far too LITTLE care at the primary-care level, not too much.  If people go to their doctors more, which happened in MA, that is a GOOD thing because it means they don’t go to the ER or end up in the hospital via ambulance when their health collapses.

Comment #66: Ms Kate  on  02/16  at  03:37 PM

Note that Broce is likely under age 65 AND doesn’t have cancer.

Comment #67: Ms Kate  on  02/16  at  03:46 PM

Hey, pay attention here.

When I was 26, I bought a million dollar catastrophic illness policy from American Health and Life Insurance Company. Deductible of $5000.  Paid on it for 14 years, turned forty.  Policy limit dropped from $1 million to $250,000, deductible rose to $10,000. Premiums tripled.  When I turned 50. The policy limit dropped to $100,000, the deductible rose to $20,000 and my premiums went up over 400 per cent.

You might give some serious thought to single payer.

Comment #68: less is more  on  02/16  at  04:13 PM

I might end up bankrupt.  But outside of the kind of fluke that afflicts any system from time to time, I would not end up dead.

No, you’d just wish you were dead, and your now bankrupt family members may also like see you dead.

because I am unlikely to get cancer much before 65

What’s funny is that elderly cancer patients are sometimes not even treated, assuming the cancer is relatively isolated.  In elderly patients, the cancer is slow growing, and, as such, the treatment can be worse than the disease.

can’t you opt out of company health insurance and just take the money in wages or somesuch? I am pretty sure my employer allows this, I thought it was standard?

Not exactly.  You can take what you would pay in premiums, but your employer is paying thousands of dollars on their end for your insurance, which you can’t have as take home pay.  Even a libertarian isn’t dumb enough to pass up that deal.

Comment #69: keshmeshi  on  02/16  at  04:20 PM

Er.  While her post is full of major major problems the comments on here seem to be seriously missing her point.

She’s saying that she is going to have a good health outcome because she is privileged not because she is insured.  That people who are uninsured are not privileged and will have lower outcomes even if they do have insurance.  She is aknowledging her privilege and saying that’s the key factor in different outcomes not insurance.  She’s even probably right. 

I can understand the confusion, since McArdle vacillates between acknowledging that she’s unusually privileged and fortunate (and by “acknowledging,” I of course mean “being unable to stop herself from bragging about her rich, connected family”) and speaking as though her position is the norm, “the rest of us,” and less privileged people are some unwashed, diseased minority not worth factoring into the conversation.

Comment #70: Shaenon  on  02/16  at  04:20 PM

Ok, it is not the best article from McArdle, but there are some important points here:

First, for many people in the USA especially for those under Medicare age, the cost of health insurance exceeds the cost (in terms of expected value) of no insurance at all, or lesser catastrophe insurance plus willingness to pay privately for any other medical expenses.

Second, denying people the right to make the above choice in a free market and forcing people to buy from those same insurance companies, offering high-cost and low-quality insurance coverage (without a public option, expanded Medicare, or comprehensive bans on denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, to protect consumers with price competition, or without ending the anti-trust-law immunity insurance companies have to an extent, also in order to protect consumers with price competition) will force prices even higher and allow quality to sink even lower, because now, insurance companies have newly coerced customers, no matter the price or quality of their products.

And the coercion of consumers to buy low-quality, high-cost products from private corporations has been brought to you largely by Barack Obama, the Democrats and their pragmatic spirit of compromise. Sorry, but that is just true.

I am not a libertarian. I agree that state coercion of individual choices is justified when as a rule such coercion benefits certain disadvantaged parties - e.g., the case of social insurance programs and universal health coverage.

But insurance companies are not disadvantaged, and health care reform that benefits them, without ensuring high-quality and efficient-cost coverage for individuals, should be rejected. (And, to adopt Barack Obama and the Democrats´spirit of pragmatic compromise, if you have to align yourself with an ineloquent op-ed author or teabagger or two, to ensure the defeat of such a pernicious health care policy, well then why not…)

Comment #71: Luke  on  02/16  at  04:38 PM

Luke, it really seems like Americans are caught in a “Heads they win, tails we lose” situation. 

The insurance co’s would be (and are) jacking rates regardless.  After all, what are you the consumer going to do?  It’s not like there’s any real competition, so as long as they don’t pull a Dr. Evil and demand “One Million Dollars!” for the health they hold hostage, they know we’re going to bitch and whine and pay it anyway, thankful that they didn’t just drop our coverage altogether.

I think we’re screwed no matter what, whether the current shitty bill passes or not. 

Until we get the Next Franklin Roosevelt that we need so badly, who will stand up and force the system back in order, we will continue to have the (political, economic) system attempt to extract everything it can get from us, while the real Masters of the Universe on Wall Street and elsewhere will continue to benefit obscenely from the government they’ve bought and paid for…

Comment #72: MikeEss  on  02/16  at  05:06 PM

First, for many people in the USA especially for those under Medicare age, the cost of health insurance exceeds the cost (in terms of expected value) of no insurance at all, or lesser catastrophe insurance plus willingness to pay privately for any other medical expenses.

Well fscking duh. That’s why we call it insurance. You pay the insurance company a premium for taking on the risk that your particular outcome will be worse than the expected one. Same thing for car insurance, same thing for house insurance. That is not a bug, it is a feature. It’s what allows the whole system to function without a hugely higher rate of dead people, medical bakruptcies and medical-practice bankruptcies. The problem isn’t in the expected value vs cost, it’s in the 25% off the top for administration,the incentives for undertreatment and for overtreatment, the incentives for ineffective treatment, and the fact that tens of millions of people are barred from admission.

Meanwhile, McArdle’s base argument seems to be “I am a hypochondriac, so because I can’t find the self-discipline required not to suck up endless medical resources other people whom those resources might actually help should be priced out of using them.”

Comment #73: paul  on  02/16  at  05:08 PM

McArdle basically seems to be saying that she would prefer to have less insurance because she believes that she won’t need it.  That is, of course, adverse selection at its most basic.  She believes that, as long as she has “catastrophic” coverage, she would be able to financially handle any health problem that may come her way.  The problem with that is quite simply that (a) it’s not true, because she can’t possibly know for sure whether she may get chronically sick beyond her ability to pay for care, and (b) by acting on her belief, she contributes to make it impossible for the rest of us to insure ourselves against that sort of risk.

More fundamentally, any scheme that is predicated on allowing “healthy” people (more precisely, people who think they won’t get sick) to pay less for their healthcare compared to sick people is simply flawed because of a built-in bias toward adverse selection.  We all face the small risk that we may find ourselves as part of the minority who will have a chronic health condition that requires costly long-term care.  The only way we can protect ourselves from that risk is to make the majority overpay for our healthcare so that the less fortunate minority can underpay.

Yet the healthcare debate is full of folks who insist that they want to pay less for health insurance because they (believe they) are “healthy,” and simply discount the risk that they may in fact be the unlucky ones.  A lot of this is simple denial, but there’s also more than a hint of “good people don’t get sick” going on here.

Comment #74: sacundim  on  02/16  at  05:35 PM

of course she already does have insurance that most people don’t have, it’s called The Rich Daddy Policy.  No premiums, no deductible, no worries about pre-existing conditions.  But she thinks she’s brave and independent.

Comment #75: Woodrowfan  on  02/16  at  05:56 PM

Luke writes,

First, for many people in the USA especially for those under Medicare age, the cost of health insurance exceeds the cost (in terms of expected value) of no insurance at all, or lesser catastrophe insurance plus willingness to pay privately for any other medical expenses.

Second, denying people the right to make the above choice in a free market and forcing people to buy from those same insurance companies, offering high-cost and low-quality insurance coverage (without a public option, expanded Medicare, or comprehensive bans on denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, to protect consumers with price competition, or without ending the anti-trust-law immunity insurance companies have to an extent, also in order to protect consumers with price competition) will force prices even higher and allow quality to sink even lower, because now, insurance companies have newly coerced customers, no matter the price or quality of their products.

And the coercion of consumers to buy low-quality, high-cost products from private corporations has been brought to you largely by Barack Obama, the Democrats and their pragmatic spirit of compromise. Sorry, but that is just true.

Money comment.  Democrats often don’t seem not to know what compromise is, since this made the bill even more unsettling to moderate Republicans who would otherwise support sensible reform (while making it unpalatable to some Liberals, and some Democrats, to boot.)  So how it was a compromise that ‘helped’ them is hard to see.  But then this is some of their thinking on how politics—and health care politics—operates, it seems.

Even more money comment is one below, but can’t tell it if is hilarious satire or actually real. (Think is satire, but not sure, comment #45)

Yes it is!  And that comment proves just how jealous you are of her and her awsomness!  You wish you could be her (everybody does), you wish you were as smart and talented she is.  It’s typical of you leftists that you can’t appreciate how lucky we are to have her share her magnificent mind and wondrous thoughts with us…

McArdle is beyond awful given the select columnist position she has.  Really, in the so called free market of ideas, this should be sufficiently expressed so that given all the people out there with decent enough reasoning skills, occasional good points, and without a tendency to constantly mislead or simply get things wrong, Atlantic readers are not instead left with McArdle’s awful columns in this spot. hence, my suggestion in comment 23 above.

Comment #76: Check it  on  02/16  at  06:11 PM

I’m going to wager that McArdle is a “comfortably middle class person” in the same sense that my ass is a “taut and toned piece aesthetic wonder”.

Comment #77: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  02/16  at  07:41 PM

”(Think is satire, but not sure, comment #45)”

...intended as sarcasm/satire…

Comment #78: MikeEss  on  02/16  at  07:46 PM

Damn, I shouldn’t post while on drugs.

Mike, you state:

Until we get the Next Franklin Roosevelt that we need so badly, who will stand up and force the system back in order, we will continue to have the (political, economic) system attempt to extract everything it can get from us, while the real Masters of the Universe on Wall Street and elsewhere will continue to benefit obscenely from the government they’ve bought and paid for

At the risk of link-whoring, I’ll point out that this ain’t gonna happen. There is no room for an FDR to either gain power or do anything with it.  Things atre going to get really broken and the US will become less and less managable - again, California is leading the way here.

Comment #79: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  02/16  at  07:53 PM

“Things atre going to get really broken and the US will become less and less managable - again, California is leading the way here.”

...boy, don’t I know it.  As a born and raised lifelong resident of the Golden State, I know exactly what happens when a significant percentage of citizens and politicians decides to slowly eliminate government.  It hasn’t been drowned yet, but the wingnuts have dragged our government into Grover Norquist’s tub and have their hands around its neck…

Comment #80: MikeEss  on  02/16  at  08:15 PM

My broken-record statement:  insurance is a legalized protection racket.  The “free market” picks winners and losers, and in this case the losers don’t get health care:  that’s not an acceptable social policy for anyone with an ounce of humanity.  The only equitable policy is single-payer administered by the government.  Until our fundamentally broken society realizes that, we’re fucked.  We are stuck with what is in every important respect a criminal enterprise overseeing health care in this country.

It took the stock market crash and the Great Depression, 25% unemployment, dust bowl, bread lines, soup kitchens, and widespread and abject poverty before “an FDR” was able to come in and make big changes.  And let’s not forget that FDR was an anomaly:  a member of the class of wealth and privilege who dedicated his political career to helping the little guy.  I think we’d be hard-pressed to come up with another FDR at this point, and I certainly wouldn’t want to pin my hopes on finding such a one again.

Comment #81: liberalrob  on  02/16  at  09:01 PM

Shorter me:  don’t expect FDR to come walking through that door.

Comment #82: liberalrob  on  02/16  at  09:03 PM

Oh, and one more thing:  In 2003 I thought Howard Dean was that new FDR.  But he screamed!  And his wife worked a professional job instead of staying home and taking care of the kids!  So clearly he couldn’t be President.  Man, I would love for him to run in 2012.

Comment #83: liberalrob  on  02/16  at  09:08 PM

And let’s not forget that FDR was an anomaly:  a member of the class of wealth and privilege who dedicated his political career to helping the little guy.

I was thinking about that last night.  Everyone keeps hoping Obama will be the next Teddy Roosevelt, or the next FDR, but they keep missing the fact that Teddy and FDR were both aristocrats.  That’s why they were able to do what they did.  If they had been regular guys from single-parent homes like our last two Democratic presidents, they would have been ignored because they would have been just another couple of poor guys who resented the rich.  Just like only Red-baiter Nixon could go to communist China, only an aristocrat can really take on the plutocracy.

Howard Dean probably is the only Democrat right now who has the right background to take the FDR role, which is why the media and Washington establishment was so desperate to keep him away from the presidency.  Honestly, I don’t know how great of a president he would make—his pugnacity might not work out so well right now—but he would be able to step into those Roosevelt shoes simply because he belongs to that aristocracy.

Comment #84: Mnemosyne  on  02/16  at  09:14 PM

Note that Broce is likely under age 65 AND doesn’t have cancer.

51. No cancer…oh, and I’m dealing with all of this crap along with working 60 hours a week, which I should not be doing, but without work I don’t have insurance (pre-existing conditions, dontcha know), and cant pay for my medications, or the medications I take to deal with their side effects, etc.

Lets not even get into the arguments I have with insurance about all this nonsense.

Comment #85: Broce  on  02/16  at  09:30 PM

Broce, the point is that McArdle seems to think that the only possible expensive health crisis before age 65 would be cancer.  You know better, of course!

Comment #86: Ms Kate  on  02/16  at  09:38 PM

Mnemo, keep in mind that Dean disappointed his parents by becoming a doctor and putting service ahead of stock portfolios.  He also married another doctor, who still practices at basic levels of medical care delivery.

Comment #87: Ms Kate  on  02/16  at  09:39 PM

Dan @61 - no, you generally can’t. The reason is that insurance companies want to include everybody in the pool; if you let the young, healthy “Daddy will pay for it” McArdles of the world opt of your company’s plan, costs are higher. This is one reason that insurance companies look at a company’s worker’s average age as part of setting a rate package. The other benefits of employer-provided health insurance are that they have to take you, and recission is rare.

So McArdle can comfortably say “oh, I would just buy a catastrophic policy” because she apparently has no idea that the insurance companies don’t have to take her money. They have to cover her through her employer; on the private market, they can reject her entirely, or charge her back-breaking premiums, or take her money and then back out of paying her claims after she runs up costs. (And by the way, I’m a lawyer, and *I* am astounded at the crap that insurance companies put on their forms; they’re specifically designed to be so vague that, unless you have recorded every doctor visit and every medicine you’ve ever taken in the last ten years, they have an excuse to deny coverage whenever they feel like it.)

One of her supporters whined that she was uninsured for a long time and paid doctor’s visits out of pocket. I’m guessing either Daddy helped with those, or she wasn’t being seen for anything more than an occasional visit and some maintenance meds. Because there’s nothing like the feeling that you could be walking to the 7-11 one day, some teenager is texting while driving and wham! You wake up in the hospital $100,000 in medical debt.

Comment #88: mythago  on  02/16  at  10:35 PM

<iBecause there’s nothing like the feeling that you could be walking to the 7-11 one day, some teenager is texting while driving and wham! You wake up in the hospital $100,000 in medical debt.</i>

Just out of curiosity, I just checked. I was in the hospital 5 days in December 2008 for treatment with Solumedrol. The hospital bill alone, not including the doctors who saw me while I was there, or the physical and occupational therapy after, or the multiple MRIs…basically the cost of the room….was $20,000.

Comment #89: Broce  on  02/17  at  12:28 AM

Damn, I blasphemed too early. My point was that this would not have been covered by catastrophic insurance, as it was not life threatening or the result of an accident. But it surely would have been catastrophic to my financial well being if I had to pay out of pocket.

Comment #90: Broce  on  02/17  at  12:30 AM

Just out of curiosity, I just checked. I was in the hospital 5 days in December 2008 for treatment with Solumedrol. The hospital bill alone, not including the doctors who saw me while I was there, or the physical and occupational therapy after, or the multiple MRIs…basically the cost of the room….was $20,000.

Jesus Christ.

I was in for 23 days just before Xmas.  And I have another MRI set for Friday.

I am *so* glad I don’t live in the US.

Comment #91: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  02/17  at  01:03 AM

In a case of thread meld: A radio discussion on Southwest’s seat policy featured a woman from a fat acceptance group who said whenever she was out of work she was uninsurable, at 5’-9” and 280 lb. Even by the same insurers who were happy to take her employer’s money to insure her when she was working.

Comment #92: Hector B.  on  02/17  at  03:43 AM

I am *so* glad I don’t live in the US.

Wanna adopt me?

Comment #93: Broce  on  02/17  at  11:55 AM

Mnemo, keep in mind that Dean disappointed his parents by becoming a doctor and putting service ahead of stock portfolios.

Doesn’t matter, except to the extent that he’s already a known class traitor and didn’t wait until he was in elected office.  No amount of medical school can change the fact that Dean is an aristocrat.  George Bush’s grandmother was a bridesmaid at Dean’s grandmother’s wedding.

Let his Democratic rivals hype their only-in-America humble origins-Joe Lieberman is the son of a liquor-store owner; John Edwards’s father worked in the textile mills-Howard Brush Dean III is the proud patrician product of Park Avenue and 85th Street, the son, grandson, and great-grandson of investment bankers. After graduating from Yale, Dean, too, worked on Wall Street before quitting to attend Albert Einstein medical school, where he met his wife, Long Island-born physician Judith Steinberg. Dean didn’t just summer in the Hamptons; his parents belonged to the Maidstone Club, and his family’s Sag Harbor roots trace back to an eighteenth-century whaling captain.

Howard Dean is one of the Right People.  Why do you think the Right People hated him so much?

Comment #94: Mnemosyne  on  02/17  at  12:57 PM

Dean is most certainly an aristocrat!  That’s why his father was very disappointed in him.

At least he, like Bill Weld, doesn’t pretend that eating pork rinds makes him one of the people.

Comment #95: Ms Kate  on  02/17  at  02:16 PM

After his lovely treatment at the hands of the Wingnut Nation taking over the Rethuglican party, I wonder if Weld would change horses to run with Dean?

Comment #96: Ms Kate  on  02/17  at  02:21 PM
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