I really feel the pain here.  You’ve spent your entire life hoping to prove your best is as good as the old white male’s best.  HRC is it, and then she gets outplayed by another, most skilled, outsider. 

I’ve seen it many times in business (people see the current approach is wrong, advocate for a change, but eventually lose on the new direction.)  Fixing things up is really hard in situations like this - you want to get the visionaries back into the fold, but they’ve refocused their anger on the alternative winning solutions, so it’s really hard.

It really seems like the Clinton campaign bussed in the nuttiest of her supporters for this. 

Does this indicate that

A) The nuttiest of the nutty is all she really has left—those famous 25-percenters who’ll support just about any harebrained idea you present to them?

B) All the sane Clinton supporters have jobs and families and lives and thus could not attend?

C) The media has only chosen to highlight the nuttier folks who showed up, as is its wont in any coverage of political protest?

D) Sane Clinton supporters chose not to attend because they don’t really see the point of demonstrating in a situation like this, or consider it as declasse as the Obama supporters did?

well, all the cranks are out. ... just a regular circus.

What really gets me is the “I will vote for McCain”  sentiment.  I know it is very, very frustrating to work and want and hope for something and then not get it, but does that mean you should start to work and want and hope for the opposite?  A vote for McCain is a vote to overturn Roe.  McCain has said he would like to see it overturned, and as the supreme court stands, he very well could place another Scalia or Alito—then we can say goodbye to the last thirty or forty years of the women’s movement.

I found myself wondering: If the campaign were exactly like it is today, only Edwards had the votes and delegates that Obama has, (like Edwards, Obama would have dropped out when he didn’t catch on) would Hillary still be battling tooth and nail down to the wire like she is. And I would guess that she would be.

They guy who got “screamed at” by Lanny Davis had it coming.  Wandering up to someone and yelling at them is well deserving of being called an asshole.  I don’t much care for Davis, and I’m beginning to really dislike Clinton, but being an asshole makes you an asshole, even if it’s another asshole who points it out.

I hate to say this, but I’m really starting to get nervous about this election.  On the surface, this should be a cakewalk for the Dems with the disaster that the Bush Administration has given us and the close alliance John McCain has made with Bush’s policies…

But, when I see a person this completely unhinged, this willing to burn the whole thing down because her candidate got beat fair and square, I’m feeling very, very nervous.

Certainly this woman represents the very fringe of Hillary supporters who would sooner see the entire Democratic Party collapse than vote for Obama, but how many more are there?

And by the way… Harold Ickes needs to go fuck himself with a blowtorch for throwing out that threat of taking this race to a floor fight to a totally unnecessary, not to mention unwinnable floor fight at the convention with the Credentials Committee.  Floor fights are good for one thing, and one thing only - causing your own party to lose the general election (Reagan screwed Ford in 1976 and Kennedy screwed Carter in 1980 with floor fights).

Next week, very likely Tuesday, Barack Obama will surpass the (now) 2117 delegate threshold to make him the presumptive presidential nominee of the Democratic Party.  At that point in time, the only honorable and dignified move Hillary can make is to suspend her campaign and graciously step aside to let our party’s nominee begin the long hard battle against John McCain in full.  Continuing the bloodbath all summer up to the convention won’t help her in the slightest - it will likely drive superdelegates to abandon her campaign and jump on board the Obama bandwagon to send the message to her - and it will only hurt the Party’s chances this November.

It’s over, Hillary Clinton.  You fought a courageous battle and you have run the most successful presidential campaign by a female candidate in history, and you have laid the groundwork for women in the future to be taken seriously as presidential candidates.  You are to be commended for that.

But it’s almost time to go home, if you care at all about our Party winning back the White House in November.  Barring some completely unforeseen events, you will not be the nominee this year, and any further divisive efforts on your part at this point will only diminish your odds of somehow winning the nomination at all, and will ultimately tarnish your legacy forever, should your futile push cause Barack Obama to lose the election on November 4th.

It’s unity time, Hillary.  Get on the Obama Bandwagon this Tuesday, or leave the Party.  It’s your call.  Do the right thing.

This election is nowhere near “cakewalk”. It’s gonna be less than 5% from older poll. If the poll doesn’t change (tho’ Obama seems to be able to pull sharp poll change), then it’s gonna be a very close election.)

my worst case scenario:

1. Hillary bringing it to convention and her supporter creating major split. 1968 style.
2. She runs indie.

both scenarios are going to take that 5% advantage easy and deliver McCain. Hillary so far doesn’t seem to have graceful exist strategy. She is banking of ability to do serious damage to keep plowing ahead.

So party leader immediate task is to talk to Hillary and ask her what she wants. If it is outrageous, time to permanently defang her. I mean, the entire weight of the party coming down on her. No more donation list, no more party infrastructure, no more experts and resource. Everybody working for her is asked to chose her or the party… etc. She becomes persona non grata inside the party. She will have nothing.

It’s going to be nasty. (My personal feeling, she is not big into her senate seat. She really want a spot in whitehouse. But she can’t get it.)

The big question is how to fix the party rift. Obviously some of her supporter is near “point of no return” right now. It’s either her or nothing. .. This is the big challenge ...

I am surprise Obama team hasn’t come up with any effective mean to win “poor white woman over 40”.

incidentally.

I think I kinda have sympathy for that woman in youtube clip. That is so new york. the poor cranky woman. She just needs somebody to bring her out for a coffee and a nice talk. lol…

she seems like a nice person. Healthy amount of NYC crankiness.

You know what makes me angry, and I really think it should be the last big reason not to elect Hillary.  She is using her supporters to exert pressure. Gin them up for her political end.

Now THAT is nasty. Because take the old lady above. I bet she has no clue what she is getting into. Being played as media softball. A leader protect and prepare her supporters, not using them as a pawn and burn them. That is cowardice.

Another group of people I am angry at is pro Hillary bloggers, the amount of lying is amazing. I thought the entire point of blogging is not becoming a political toolz but doing independent thinking outside the political & media machine.

Well congratulation, making poor and clueless people fighting for your lost cause.

Her comments on nuking Iran for Israel were enough for me…

Pam - good point.  The proper order for getting a seat at the rich protestant white straight (or passing as straight) guy table is:

Rich non-protestant white guy
Poor white guy
White Woman
POC, roughly in the order of: Hispanic, African American, Native American
out gay white guy
out gay woman
atheist
transperson

Obama has clearly cut in line, which is typical of those people with their disrespect for their betters.

I don’t think Hillary is thinking along those lines - she’s pretty much grabbing at the brass ring and devil take the hindmost.  Some of her supporters, OTOH, clearly are thinking exactly along those lines.

I always assume the worst. Some people say I’m a pessimist, but I prefer to call myself a realist since I usually end up right. And I’m expecting the Dems to lose, by hook or by crook.

I’m assuming that a very large percentage of Clinton’s supporters will either write her in, vote for McCain, or stay home from the election. And if there’s an election in 2012, I expect Clinton will run, get the nomination… and get skunked.

I hope I’m wrong.

Had Hillary run for president in 2004 she likely would be the incumbent in 2008 and would be on her way to a cake walk victory for a second term.

She had her chance. For some reason she chose not to run in 2004 when she would have won (she would have at least mounted a better campaign than Kerry did).

Unfortunately for Hillary the train left the station four years ago. Where was she when we needed someone to stop Bush? We get…Kerry…? Sorry Hil, I would have been with you then but now you are old news.

Your’e wrong. Don’t confuse noise with actual numbers.

Hillary never has serious opponent. She has never been in large bruising political fight.

She wouldn’t be able to challenge Bush in 2004. (You think she has the ability to gather speech the size of philly crowd like Kerry? I doubt it. She never able to attract extra large crowd.)

On top of that she clearly was using her senate position to raise money and legitimacy for presidential race. in 2004 she has no money and only a lowly freshman senator. She couldn’t possibly compete against Bush money.

Note that in 2004 Democrats was really desperate. Nothing went right. Everybody thought there won’t be serious fight. Tho’ Kerry proved that wrong and give a really tough fight with plenty of money.

It seems like the same people who gave us Joe Leiberman for VP in 2000 are trying to give us Hillary in 08.  Hillary and her friends don’t seem to understand that Democrats don’t have to act and think like Republicans to get elected in 08 as Bush and co have pretty much ruined the Republican brand.

In the end that is why she lost she acted like she was running in 2000 not 2008, and all the complaining about FL and Michigan doesn’t change the fact that she ran a very bad campaign.

The witch’s curse. I won’t vote for McCain, but I have lost most of my enthusiasm for Obama.

Well, I am worried sick right now.  We have just ran a woman out of the Democratic Party.  Jenny Doggett of Boston was a Democrat, but is now an independent after this.  Makes me wonder hwo many more women will bolt the party over this.

@garobei

HRC is it, and then she gets outplayed by another, most skilled, outsider.

I even have a hard time seeing Obama as an outsider….but Clinton? You’ve got to be kidding me.

These candidates are demographically different from previous presidential candidates.  That’s important. The Democratic Party will be justifiably proud for having nominated an African American man.  And it’s great that a woman has made a serious run at the White House.

But Hillary Clinton as outsider? Give me a break!  Clinton was an absolutely classic insider candidate.  And it’s only in comparison to Clinton that Obama himself can claim to be an outsider.

Whatever their attractions, neither of these candidates is proposing new “winning solutions.” They’re both running on Clinton-esque, centrist, “New Democrat” platforms.

Well, I am worried sick right now.  We have just ran a woman out of the Democratic Party.  Jenny Doggett of Boston was a Democrat, but is now an independent after this.  Makes me wonder hwo many more women will bolt the party over this.
Jovan1984 on 06/01 at 02:34 AM

Those idiots can join the republican party if they want to.  These are the some one who respond very well to “obliterate Iran, gas tax holiday, etc”. Fundamentally they are not progressive. It’s the dixiecrat, reagan democrats of 2008 election.

A party should fight for base, principle and expand from there. A party shouldn’t be lie all you can eat common denominator that the Democratic party has been in the past 2 decades. That attitude gives us war and conservative Supreme court.

The witch’s curse. I won’t vote for McCain, but I have lost most of my enthusiasm for Obama.
Hattie on 06/01 at 01:23 AM

what? shakepearesister and confluence are no fun anymore? MyDD is still dishing out BS.

That is so new york. the poor cranky woman.

Squashed—On behalf of the entire Big Apple, may I say: Bite me.

What that is, is so drunk.  Perhaps they don’t have alcoholics where you come from (and a lady who decides she needs to get good and bombed before an early-afternoon delegate meeting is definately an alcoholic), but I assure you, it’s not limited to Manhattan. If I were trying to convince her to dry the hell out, this vid would be Exhibit A.

1.  The Constitution does NOT apply

  2. The Rules & Bylaws Committee did NOT determine the delegate allocation

  3. Any bias was in Hillary’s favor

  4. No votes were “stolen”

  5. The Principle of “Flawed Reflection”

  6. Credentials Committee Challenge

  7. Validity of the Election Sanction by the State of Florida

  8. Conflict of Interest

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/1/72643/08080/210/526590

Ben,

I meant “outsider” in the sense of women/blacks/gays, etc.  I’m old enough to remember overt discrimination against all these groups and, while I’m no fan of identity politics, I can empathize with those who want to see a person in ‘their’ group elected president.

If I were trying to convince her to dry the hell out, this vid would be Exhibit A.
Molly, NYC on 06/01 at 08:42 AM

yeah yeah. She smokes too much too. But when she asks for direction and complaining about not being able to find the floor, that’s when I think she is an ok person. A bit in bumbling idiot side, instead of coming in for a real fight. At least she dress proper for the occasion .

Well, I am worried sick right now.  We have just ran a woman out of the Democratic Party.  Jenny Doggett of Boston was a Democrat, but is now an independent after this.  Makes me wonder hwo many more women will bolt the party over this.

How was she run out of the Democratic Party? Because she lost through a series of elections and was allowed to stay in far longer than mathematics supported such an effort? Because she wasn’t handed the nomination on a silver platter? There can only be one Democratic nominee for president. She was never entitled to that slot. It wasn’t her birthright. She had the same shot at it that Obama had and she came up short.

Thanks, white feminists.  Now we’ll look forward to McCain as the next president.

Chill. I’m quite certain the whiners represent a lot fewer actual voters than you, and they, think. And some of them are Republican trolls anyway.

Ohio vs operation Chaos?

I don’t know if she’s real or not.  Maybe she really is that upset and doesn’t care about helping bring us 4-more-years of Bushit in New McCain-Flavored Nuggets!

OK, I’m going to try really, really hard not to come off as either ageist or classist, but she reminds me a lot of a certain type of New York older woman. 

My university offered, as a public service, free auditing of courses by senior citizens.  A very cool idea considering how many older people out there never had the opportunity of a college education in the first place, and also it gives the retirees something valuable to do with their time (retired people will come out in droves for almost anything culture or education related in New York, which rocks, actually).  But a lot of these folks didn’t really understand what “auditing” means, and would take up valuable class time with directionless rants that were only tangentially related to what we were talking about.  A lot of them didn’t seem to really understand the coursework and didn’t seem to actually care to learn a new trick or two.

A lot of the women I met via that remind me a lot of this woman.  People who got off the bus circa 1973 and for whatever reason have no desire to move forward another step. 

I’ll also go ahead and assume that, as a Manhattanite, she doesn’t have a freakin’ clue what a McCain presidency would do to this country—shit, she probably doesn’t have a clue what the Bush presidency has already done to this country.  A lot of older New Yorkers live in this weird bubble where they are just completely not in touch with anything going on beyond, like, the entrance to the Holland Tunnel, in any way.  (Hell, a lot of New Yorkers of all ages are like that!)  They have their rent-controlled apartment on the upper east side, their nice thick retirement fund, they volunteer and have other free activities they do - usually someplace where they don’t actually have to be in touch with people who are different from them or ideas that are foreign to them.  And that’s it.  Their lives are as limited as my grandparents are, in rural Louisiana.

I hope and pray not to become one of these old women, someday.

Not to mention that they are totally irrelevant this fall, since there’s not the slightest chance of the election in NY being close.

———-

Amanda, if you keep this theme design, your traffic is going to tank!
you really need to tweak this.

I’ve thought that for a long time now. And I don’t care- it won’t save them in the fall.

“We have just ran a woman out of the Democratic Party.  Jenny Doggett of Boston was a Democrat, but is now an independent after this.”

When people stamp their feet and leave of their own free will can we stop saying they were forced out? It’s an abuse of language that tries to paint one person as the victim and another as the evil oppressor, and it undermines the plight of people who are actually coerced.

The vitriol against Clinton supporters here is completely mind-boggling to me.  You know, there are quite a few of us - in fact, probably most of us - who have supported Clinton but will be happy to vote for whoever the Democratic candidate is in the fall, most likely Obama at this point.  I know I’m planning to.  But the level of hatred and anger that is being directed at Clinton supporters, the insane accusations, the attempts to take one unhinged supporter and make her stand for all Clinton fans, is really, REALLY getting on my nerves, and I think you’ll find in the end that if some people choose to stay home rather than vote for Obama, the virulent Obama supporters can take a large portion of the blame.  I’ve loved and read Pandagon for a long time, but the level of the political discourse here seems to be getting steadily worse.

Just wanted to add, in case I didn’t make it clear, that I AM planning to vote for Obama in the fall, as are most of the Clinton supporters I’ve talked to.  I think the conspiracy theories of some Obama supporters are beyond ridiculous (Seriously?  Clinton supporters are now undercover Republicans just out to screw up the party?), and I think that there will still be overwhelming Democratic turnout for Obama in the fall.  But I can certainly understand how some Clinton supporters are feeling angry and rejected.  They’re being treated as if they’re all racists who just don’t want to vote for a black man, or that their voices just don’t count anymore because it looks like Obama’s going to win it.

The anger is directed NOT at you and those like you, but at those genuinely hateful Clinton “supporters” (if they really are that, and not just Rethug ratfuckers) who come off like Geraldine Ferraro or the tinfoil-hat protesters at the meeting yesterday. YOU should be angry at them too, since they are merely damaging Sen. Clinton’s reputation and future prospects.

Oh, trust me, I’m more than angry at the idiots among the Clinton supporters.  I’m angry at the racist dogwhistles that have emanated from her camp, and I’m far from believing that Clinton is the ideal candidate and her supporters are all angels.  But I also see a lot of idiots among the Obama supporters who are doing plenty to damage Obama’s reputation for me and others who voted for Clinton.  And I see some of those Obama idiots spreading unbelievable hatred and anger not only at the few but unfortunately loudspoken idiots in Clinton’s camp, but at all of us.  I see assumptions being made about ALL Clinton supporters that are beyond ridiculous. And that makes me just as angry, if not more so, as does the stupidity I see from Clinton and her followers.

The big difference is that the Obama campaign does whatever it can to discourage its crazies (eg. asking people NOT to show up and demonstrate yesterday) while the Clintonites egg theirs on at every opportunity. They bear a lot of responsibility for damaging the reputation of Clinton supporters in general.

The Republicans have got to be loving all this strife on the left.
I have a modest proposal: Obama should say that no one can vote for him without meeting certain criteria: of education, liberalism, income, international travel, and so on. The rest can go vote for Hillary or McCain, who are good enough for them.

“I think the conspiracy theories of some Obama supporters are beyond ridiculous…”

When people threaten to vote for McCain if Clinton doesn’t win you have to start wondering how genuine their support is to begin with, given that Obama is far close ideologically.

If you (in the general sense) like Clinton’s message and what she stands for voting for McCain makes zero sense on any level except out of spite. I don’t think it’s overly paranoid to guess that some Republican trolls helped start and spread the meme that voting for McCain is great payback.

Of course it isn’t all Republican trolls. I don’t think Zuzu and PortlyDyke are Republican operatives but they do spend a significant amount of effort trying to ensure a Republican victory for reasons I can’t grasp. At some point if someone is working towards a McCain presidency whether or not they are technically Republicans ceases to matter.

As far as mean supporters go, both sides have them, and this contentious battle is bringing out the worst in people. But that’s a poor thing to base a vote on. None of those supporters is going to be on the cabinet.

Or..it just may be that some of the more strident Clintonistas like Ms. Christian simply want to tank the 2008 elections for McCain merely to sink the evil Obama, because they just don’t want a Black man to occupy the White House….even one who basically has the same views as Hillary does on most of the core issues.

It’s not as if Clinton’s supporters are immune to playing the race card, anyway.

It may also be that Hillary simply wants to grease the wheels for her triumphant return in 2012 as the right-wing populist Democrat candidate (with Black voters and most socially liberal Dems pushed to the back of the bus, if not thrown underneath it) as a means to further realign the Democratic Party further and further to the Right…and if it means torpedoing Obama and doing McCain’s work for him, then so be it.  I wouldn’t be surprised if she taps Joe Lieberman as her VP if she does manage to pull this charade off.

Either way, unless Obama does some serious campaigning to redirect the focus on McCain and Bush policy and does some overture to working class folks through some policy initiatives, he could very well get blindsded between the Clintonistas and the RNC Swiftboaters.  Then again, oil might hit $5/gal and the Iraqi War heat up, and McCain melts down in one of his temper tantrums, and whomever the Dem nominee is doesn’t really matter anyway in the ensuing rout.

Doesn’t affect me much, since I’m already committed to McKinney and the Greens.

Anthony

Of course, in any matter concerning Hillary or Bill Clinton, “populist” should be safely enclosed within air quotes.

Anthony

Either way, unless Obama does some serious campaigning to redirect the focus on McCain and Bush policy and does some overture to working class folks through some policy initiatives, he could very well get blindsded between the Clintonistas and the RNC Swiftboaters.

To be perfectly honest, one thing that has been kinda sorta OK about this nasty primary season is that we’ve all gotten to see Obama in action against swiftboating attacks.  And so far, he’s done really well.  None of this stuff has gotten the better of him in the way that Kerry almost immediately listed over to FAIL the moment the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth opened their slimy little mouths.

For a long time, one of Clinton’s main talking points was that she’d been to hell and back with the right and was best poised to defend herself against their tactics, whereas fresher candidates like Obama and Edwards were relatively untested and might not be able to hold their own.  Ironically enough, she has helped Obama show that this just isn’t the case (not to mention that she defaults to “but I was tired!” or, heck, just having her husband do damage control, when she is targeted).

Nice. We have one person complaining about “Clintonistas” and another complaining about how elitist Obama is.

Note how as the attacks become more idiotic they begin to mimic Republican talking points?

Hattie, I’ve got a modest proposal for you: Shut The Fuck Up.

Margalis…..please note the disclaimer about “the more strident Clintonistas like Ms. Christain”; it was not intended to taint all supporters of Hillary Clinton with the same brush; only those like Ms. Christain who are the loudest in screaming about Obama’s unfitness due to his race.

And besides, it’s been mostly the boosters of Hillary, if not Hillary haeself, who has been most willing to parrot “Republican talking points” in her attacks on Obama and her case that she alone is the only Democrat who can beat McCain.  Not that Obama hasn’t done his share of pandering to conservatives himself (one of the main reasons I’m no longer a Democrat, BTW), but at least he isn’t nearly as shameless as Hillary’s partisans have been.

The Opoponax…yeah, Obama has survived so far a lot of slings and arrows in the primary campaign…but that is only a fraction of what the Repubican dirty tricksters will be throwing at him in the general election.  It is very encouraging that he is not mimicking Kerry’s strategy of “run and hide and hope they go away” and getting out in front to water down the attacks before they get out of hand. (Though, it does bother me somewhat that he had to break off his former church; that may hurt him in the long run as someone who will simply surrender to the Right if pushed far enough.)

Anthony

(I don’t like the word Clintonista because it suggests that all of her supporters are strident women.)

that is only a fraction of what the Repubican dirty tricksters will be throwing at him in the general election

Is it?  Because to be honest it seems about on par, to me.  And I missed the hottest two months of it.

Note that the opportunity cost and poll going down as a result of Hillary going negative is very real. The money and energy spend to mend what Hillary and crew are damaging is not zero. We are now reaching a point where going negative is not cute anymore but influencing the result of General Election.

http://www.americablog.com/2008/06/friends-of-clinton-who-advocate.html

t would seem that a number of Hillary’s top supporters, and a lot of her fans, are more comfortable helping a Republican become president if Hillary can’t win the nomination. Some of that is, understandably, just talk - it sucks to lose, people are are angry. But at this late date, cheap talk is no longer acceptable. We have to reunite our party in time to successfully take on John McCain. And people like Mandy Grunwald, Harold Ickes, Terry McAuliffe, Howard Wolfson, and so many of Clinton’s other staff, surrogates and rich donors have already caused major damage to those efforts. Hillary and her team have successfuly changed the national mood, of Hillary’s supporters, at least, from one of disappointment that their candidate lost, to one of outright anger that her nomination was supposedly stolen away because she’s a woman. That’s ludicrous. Yeah, there’s been some sexism by irrelevant third parties, but I just don’t believe that Hillary lost because a guy is selling nutcrackers in the airport. Hillary lost this race because Obama ran a better campaign.

The amount of attack between Hillz, McCain, OB.  With party rival like Hillz, who needs Republican.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2011/2533493988_c51d650cb4_o.png

So far in this campaign, Obama has delivered 19 “hits” on an opponent, McCain has delivered 27, and in the blue corner, weighing in at ??? pounds, Hillary Balboa Clinton has delivered 122 punches!!!  Surprised?  Me neither.  But she really needs to stop complaining about being picked on by other candidates.  The more she does it, the more it undermines her credibility, which does not bode well for her in her future political career.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/29/134247/290/894/524913

But I also see a lot of idiots among the Obama supporters who are doing plenty to damage Obama’s reputation for me and others who voted for Clinton.  And I see some of those Obama idiots spreading unbelievable hatred and anger not only at the few but unfortunately loudspoken idiots in Clinton’s camp, but at all of us.

So, wait, you understand how some Clinton voters could be turned off to Obama by some of his crazier supporters, but you have no idea how Obama supporters could have been turned off to Clinton by her crazier supporters?

When I talk about the “crazier Clinton supporters,” I’m talking about places like TalkLeft, which has pretty much turned into a cesspit of conspiracy theories about how Obama is going to subjugate white people under his dictatorial regime.  No, I am not joking—read some of the comments.

Frankly, most of what’s been here has been pretty mild compared to that.  That’s assuming you ignore squashed, of course, which is what the rest of us do.  If you’re assuming that squashed represents the average Obama supporter, your view is skewed.

Oh, and you do know that Rush Limbaugh spent weeks urging Republicans to register as Democrats and vote for Hillary, right?  I don’t want to link directly to that asshole, but you can Google “rush the vote operation chaos” to see it in his own words on his website.  Or just Google “limbaugh hillary vote” to get the coverage.

That’s why people are speculating that at least some of these vocally crazy Clinton supporters are Republican <i>agents provocateurs</a>—the Republicans have been actively recruiting people to do it.  When Republicans announce on national television that they’re trying to sabotage your party by pretending to be Democrats, you should probably pay attention.

squashed,

changing the average of sanity since 2008.

So, wait, you understand how some Clinton voters could be turned off to Obama by some of his crazier supporters, but you have no idea how Obama supporters could have been turned off to Clinton by her crazier supporters?

Mnemosyne, when did I EVER say that?  In fact, I recall making it pretty clear that I am angry and unhappy with the outspoken few of Clinton’s supporters who are obviously batshit insane.  But I have no idea how you could possibly think that Pandagon has been even-handed and “mild” in its attacks on Clinton and her supporters.

If you’re assuming that squashed represents the average Obama supporter, your view is skewed.

And if anyone here is assuming that Harriet Christian represents the average Clinton supporter, then THEIR view is equally skewed.

man, I swear. Hillz voters is living in the past decades.
(notice how that harriet vids zoom to the top of “hillary voters” search at youtube?
for all practical purposes THAT IS HILLARY voters.)

No wonder you can’t win anything. You don’t understand how things work!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9eElt7pHEE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DesyhrRYtB0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9V5NU6HuK0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLcmC-np_zk

If you demand to have your ass kissed before you’ll vote for the candidate whose positions on the issues are closest to your preferred candidate, you’re no progressive.
I fully expect the vast majority of Senator Clinton’s supporters to behave like grown ups, but if you expect us to grovel for the votes of flat out racist lunatics like Harriet Christian I have to wonder what you think the point of being a Democrat is. A political party is based on compromise, yes, but there are some things you don’t compromise with.
We don’t need Dixiecrats to win. We should be glad to be rid of people like that.

The official Hillz aggregator (they pick which blog post go there. so it’s official campaign preference.)
all the blogs listed are wackos and fringe (except talkleft)
http://hillaryhub.com/

try posting at confluence if you can. lol (now that’s a hilarious site. Like wingnut, except dumber. That site is ripe for republican takeover. The shrill philosophy is pure ” the enemy of my enemy is my friend”.)
http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/

talkleft probably is the biggest hillz blog.
http://www.talkleft.com/

this one is just paid shill, total nutjob. (ex CIA for hire)
noquarterusa.net/blog/

some blunder Hillz team made.

(on the blog, I know for a fact, some hillz bloggers are so out of it they just pass right through what they suppose to do to damage future chance. No thinking ability whatsoever. total kneejerk)

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/1/184125/3635/912/526905

Aligning Against the Media -
Most people on both sides of the aisle feel the media is biased against them, and in a lot of cases that’s probably accurate given that the media’s only true allegiance is to their advertisers. That said, it’s a very dangerous move to align your campaign against the very tool you need to win elections, the media. Once Hillary began talking as though the media was sexist and intentionally trying to ruin her, a lot of folks smelled sour grapes. I’m sure the media truly did turn on her at that point, why wouldn’t they?

As a result, she not only lost a lot of free, frequently positive air time, but she started to pick up more negative reporting than positive. I can only guess, but it must have required a lot of campaign cash to combat those negative reports and make up for the loss of free positive air time. For a campaign already in the red, this might have been the death knell.

But I have no idea how you could possibly think that Pandagon has been even-handed and “mild” in its attacks on Clinton and her supporters.

Because I’ve been to sites where the attacks have actually been vicious, like Daily Kos.  Seriously, if the very mild things that Pam has said are too much for you, you’re much too delicate for politics.

Uh, Squashed, you’re not seriously citing DailyKos as a source of credible statistics, are you?
That site is like the Official Clubhouse for Obama Fanboyz . 
Kinda surprised they don’t have a TigerBeat-like contest for “Win a Date with Dreamboat Barry”, although I could be overestimating them…...

Uh, Squashed, you’re not seriously citing DailyKos as a source of credible statistics, are you?
That site is like the Official Clubhouse for Obama Fanboyz .
Courtney on 06/01 at 09:53 PM

This is the internet. If you have better data, SHOW. Otherwise, you got no case. (no wonder, hillz web crew keep losing. They are populated by biggest whiner online. What you gonna do? post myDD chart that half the net will debunk it under 5 seconds?

oh wait… it’s the popular vote, It’s sexism, it’s misogyny ,...waa waa waa… ( no wonder the entire campaign is $30millions in debt. Obama crew do it for free and ten times faster, while hillz crew still waiting to be told what to say.)

btw, this is why Hillz blog is not effective online. (they are too busy hugging each other and hiding from real world.  Then when hard number shows up, they don’t know what to say since they never been challenged.)

- can’t show stat
- can’t show believable argument
- can’t think for themselves…

then the whole thing collapses because the arguments are turning weirder and weirder by day. Had Hillz blogs say “no racism, no negative, play clean” Hillz probably would have been down under 40 instead of 200.

Obama blogs truly snapped when he used “I already win” argument after IA to create momentum, true enough he change tones and create argument that jibe with long primary battle.

Had Hillz blog snap about Bills SC comment, Hillz probably won’t lost NC. Had Hillz blog force Hillz to keep it real in the beginning, instead of pro-war, pro rightwing talking point, inevitable, she would have won a lot of post super tuesday race.

The entire Hillz blog is doing diservice by pumping out distortion. It puts the entire campaign farther and farther from progressive base.

Squashed, is English your first language? 
(And please don’t become hysterical and start screaming “racism”; it’s just that your posts sounds less than 100% literate…..)

The fact is, DailyKos is hardly a source of credible data. 
If you got another source, cite it. 
if you don’t, too bad.

The fact is, DailyKos is hardly a source of credible data.
If you got another source, cite it.
if you don’t, too bad.
Courtney on 06/01 at 10:30 PM

that stat was generated by the guy who predicted several important big race within 2%. (including TX, OH, NC, etc) Everybody marvels his number accuracy.  a lot of blog conversation and strategy take his number into consideration. The dkos post was a link to HIS blog entry.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/05/incoming.html

(yes, it turns out he is a pro. He is a sport stat cruncher. Let’s put it this way: he got more credibility than Mark Penn by now. )

about dkos: it’s the biggest political open forum there is. You lost that spot, you lost major online mindshare. You can bookmark the entire hillz blogs and they don’t amount to anything meaningful mindshare wise.

I don’t know how you judge credible data in hillaryland, for the rest of us it’s comparing to other data. (not whining about it)

PS. Confluence people. jeebus… (hey, go run that old poll number on monte carlo generator again. Maybe it will come out right after few thousand time. heh)

(I don’t like the word Clintonista because it suggests that all of her supporters are strident women.)

Although this could be a takeoff of “fashionista”, I associate it all the way back to Sandinista, which was a sex-neutral term.

What bugged me most about the Clinton campaign:

1. Use of surrogates to denigrate/deprecate Obama:
- Shaheen to bring up his admitted hs drug use
- Bill to trivialize his South Carolina win (essentially (and yeah I’m being a little unfair): yeah that other colored boy did real good in SC too. Too bad Jesse ran out of states filled with black people right quick.)
- Ferraro to say having an African dad gave Obama some sort of magic advantage with the voters.

2. Hillary’s making cheesy lawyerly arguments on her behalf.
- Sure, fine if you’re a lawyer. But let someone else (a surrogate?) argue them for you. That you “won” a one-horse race. Or that results from a race where nobody campaigned were fair, even though one candidate had twenty years of national name recognition, and the other was a communist Muslim who was tepid on women’s reproductive rights. When others make those sketchy arguments instead of you, then you don’t sound like a greedy psycho.

Now, a lot of women identify with HRC’s struggles, from zuzu to Esprit founder Susie Tompkins Buell. They believe she was hard done by. And certainly a lot of those who didn’t vote for her are misogynists—for one thing nobody who likes women would readily call any woman a bitch. But for me, things she said and did during her campaign made her a less than optimal candidate, while Obama’s biggest flaw was an unfortunate loyalty to his outspoken former pastor.

“Oh, and you do know that Rush Limbaugh spent weeks urging Republicans to register as Democrats and vote for Hillary, right?”

Rush Limbaugh also spent weeks urging Republicans to vote against McCain in their primaries.  I think the results show just how much influence he really has.

“Operation Chaos” is a con job to convince his advertisers that he is not a dried up has been.  Don’t be a sucker and fall for it

Is that the lady in the video Jeralyn Merrit from talkleft?

Did I go into moderation, or did the site eat my post?

*  *  *

Rush Limbaugh also spent weeks urging Republicans to vote against McCain in their primaries.  I think the results show just how much influence he really has.

“Operation Chaos” is a con job to convince his advertisers that he is not a dried up has been.  Don’t be a sucker and fall for it.

I think you misunderstood me.  I’m not saying that Limbaugh listeners turned out in great numbers to vote for Clinton, because that’s patently not true.

I am saying that he’s sufficiently influential on the remaining handful of dead-enders that he could easily get a handful of fanboys with too much time on their hands to run around to liberal blogs pretending to be Obama and/or Clinton supporters and pick fights.  I suspect that there may be Republican trolls fueling the online discord, not affecting the actual results.

Mnemosyne,
Sorry, I did misunderstand. 
Ever since I saw the cable pundits seriously discuss the huge Limbaugh effect, it has become my instant reaction to the subject to remind people that he couldn’t even effect his own primary