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Valentine’s Day Post: Conscientious Objector Edition

FeminismSex

Blogging about Valentine’s Day today, because tomorrow is all “Battlestar Galactica”.

This ad is from a 1972 edition of Mademoiselle, and is a pretty classic example of how advertisers of the period tried to sell products to women who felt attracted to feminist thought by belittling their aspirations.  It seems counterintuitive, but I guess the thinking was that you can’t sell perfume to a liberated class, and therefore it was worth turning off some customers to shame the rest into running away from feminism.  In any case, the strategy worked.  The perfume industry still thrives on selling bizarre romantic fantasies* and women know how to couch their fledgling regard for their own self-worth in phrases like, “I’m not a feminist, but….”

Direct assaults on feminism in advertising are rare now—-though direct assaults on women’s humanity are still as common as ever—-but I think that this ad is worth dwelling on because it really puts the 70s-era radical feminist writings denouncing romance and seduction into perspective.  This is the sort of assholery they were up against.  One of the favorite quotes that misogynists use to scare people about feminism is Andrea Dworkin’s crack, “Seduction is often difficult to distinguish from rape. In seduction, the rapist often bothers to buy a bottle of wine.”  Of course, the reason that devout misogynists get so fucking upset at that quote is they fail to understand humor, possibly because their own sexism leads them to believe women can’t crack jokes.  Granted, it’s a dark joke that points to the larger theory of Dworkin’s that posits that this process we call “seduction” is contextualized as a way to conquer and humiliate women.  For this, she was called crazy.  I say that anyone who looks at that ad and disagrees with her point is the crazy one.  I don’t know how much more blatant you can be—-seduction is about taking a woman down a few notches by using sex as a weapon against her.  Pointing out that sexists can’t imagine a sexual landscape where women enter willingly and leave with dignity isn’t being anti-sex, but just anti-sexist.

We’ve moved forward from the 70s in some senses.  Outside of the world of porn, it’s considered in poor taste to openly describe sex as a way to demean and conquer women.  But really, we haven’t gotten much better.  Bridal and dating reality shows still portray women as singularly obsessed with catching a man to validate themselves, with their dignity being the first thing to do in this pursuit.  Same thing with romantic comedies.  Women’s magazines still sell themselves with articles about how sex is unpaid service work for women, with relentless headlines about 500 brand new, exciting ways to wow him in bed (because if you can’t constantly top your previous erotic performance, then you’ll lose him and then you’ll be sorry!—-remember, your own pleasure is an afterthought, if thought of at all).  Abstinence-only sells itself primarily on the idea that once a man has sex with you, you’re debased to the point that you pretty much deserve to be raped.  It seems like the “eager to be a bride to the point of humiliation” thing and the “sex makes you a slut” thing are different, but the thread winding through them is the idea that sex and romance maintain women in a second class category as these silly, debased, owned, dominated creatures—-and the romance thing might be more insulting, because it suggests we’re begging for it.


Is this ad that I criticized recently really that much different than the ad above?  The belief that romance is a trick men use to lure unwilling women to have sex with them hasn’t gone anywhere, and in fact it’s the overwhelming theme of most Valentine’s Day advertising.  This cheeky advertisement from Vermont Teddy Bears both mocks and reinforces this narrative.  Of all shows, “Family Guy” really drew the link between the rape culture and romance most explicitly, since the underlying assumption in both narratives is that sex diminishes women, and so they either have to be tricked, cajoled, or forced to give it up. 

But even though the sexual aspects of romance grab our attention the most, I think there’s more to it that I’ve seen in others and in my own life, and in our pop culture.  You can reject the model that sex is a service that women provide to men and still get trapped in the “women serve, men romance” trap, because there’s a lot of other services women provide to men, even if sex is a service-free play time.  There’s housework, ego soothing, and listening.  These duties can be shared equally, but in heterosexual relationships, they rarely are, and women’s resentments about giving more than they’re getting start to pile up.  It’s well-understood that men have a duty to compensate women just enough to keep women in relationships with teddy bears, diamonds, flowers, and other forms of romance.  It works, in my experience, because our culture makes women feel so bad about ourselves that a little validation goes a long way.  I know in my past that despite my bohemian pretensions—-I didn’t want the diamonds or flowers, but wanted gifts that seemed interesting or unique, and wanted to share gift-giving a little bit—-I still got sucked into the idea that romance itself was good, and I wanted very desperately for boyfriends to validate me on Valentine’s Day with some sort of gift.  And, thinking back on it, it was because I felt horribly insecure in those relationships because I was always being put down and having to give more than I could ever get back. 

Yes, even good feminists get sucked in by compulsory heterosexuality, and therefore end up in these unequal relationships where they take many slights to their dignity and start putting way too much emphasis on some mandatory token of affection on Valentine’s Day to make up for it and make them feel, however falsely, that he really does care.  I bought the book Jane Sexes It Up at a used book store recently, and I was dismayed to recognize some of my past in Merri Lisa Johnson’s confession that no matter how feminist she felt, she always somehow was sitting on the spigot side of the bathtub when she and her boyfriend took baths together.  For all my pretensions of difference, I guess I wasn’t doing any better than the many overworked, underloved wives I’d known growing up who compulsively collected diamond gifts from husbands as proof that they were valued, even if everyone around them indicated otherwise most of the time. 

The romance of romance blinded me to this problem.  It’s easy to rationalize why celebrating something like Valentine’s Day doesn’t have to be about reinforcing this miserable cycle of neglect/mistreatment of women mollified by some romantic gesture, but can be a celebration of love.  Except that it never worked out that way, and during the last Valentine’s Day that I celebrated, when my nasty, cruel boyfriend “forgot” to get me a gift (I guess consciously or subconsciously testing to see how much crap I’d take before I’d throw in the towel), I found myself sick with self-hatred for caring, and angry at myself for that because even feeling as low as I did, I know I deserved that small courtesy.  So, when Marc asked me if I was the Valentine’s-celebrating sort, I thought about it and thought about how the holiday had always been for me about this desire to be validated, pretending that I did feel validated when I didn’t, and self-disgust, I said no. 

Man, being a conscientious objector to romance is such a huge relief, I have to say.  Without the romantic gesture on Valentine’s Day, I’m not putting off the desire to be loved and comfortable in my relationship and with myself until then, and have to confront that desire on a daily basis.  Luckily for me, I do feel these things now, so I can’t say if my experiment of rejecting romance would work to save me in another bad, failed relationship.  Or, to put it another way, I don’t always have the spigot at my back anymore, and so I don’t need romance to distract me from my sense of unfairness.  Then again, maybe it’s a chicken or egg situation.  Perhaps it’s easier to be a conscientious objector to Valentine’s Day if you’re in a relationship where you don’t feel always put down or put off, and don’t need it made up to you in any way.  Maybe, for me, it’s a way to take my temperature.  If I were to start feeling the need again for special romantic moments, that’s a good time to ask myself if I’m not feeling secure anymore and ask myself why.  I can honestly say that I don’t see that happening to me, though, because I’m finally in my life getting what I’d been wanting.

I can feel the keyboards firing up to protest that you can too have Valentine’s Day and not have a broken relationship or self-esteem issues, so I can say I totally believe some people pull it off.  I’ve seen couples I think pull it off.  But the dominant cultural narratives about romance, and the experiences of too many people show, that romance is something our culture constructs not to celebrate love, but to avoid it.  We don’t even try to hide this fact very well, with the majority of commercials for romantic gift items being aimed at men who are looking for ways to buy off women that they can’t be bothered to keep happy and sexually aroused by treating them with more fairness.  If you can pull it off, more power to you.  But it’s very important to ask the hard questions, because way too many people are suffering out there and using romance as a crutch to distract themselves.


*I guess sexism is necessary to sell expensive perfume, because otherwise the insistence on it makes no sense at all.  Feminists wear perfume, after all.  But maybe we’re less likely to feel that we have to have a bottle of the $100 an ounce stuff or else no one will ever love us. 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 08:26 PM • (99) Comments

Lead a women’s march.  How Quaint.  How inaccurate, too.

I thought the term was organize - lead is patriarchal.

Comment #1: Ms Kate  on  02/13  at  08:33 PM

Oh, and I plan to shoot my my husband and my whole family with lasers for Valentine’s Day - for my kid’s 13th birthday party that is.

Comment #2: Ms Kate  on  02/13  at  08:35 PM

I JUST saw that Abstinence Until Marriage post on Feministing and I absolutely saw red. And not in a cheezy valentine’s day capacity. I was halfway through an angry reply on that website before my “personal accounts - do not share” safety engaged.

But their curriculum… seriously… appears to be that a young woman who hasn’t had anything to drink shouldn’t drive her drunk male friend home because all men are basically rapists when you put a little booze in them. Seriously?!?! They would prefer that the boy get behind the wheel of a car to try to drive himself home rather than just teach the little fuckers that they shouldn’t rape, and that people should believe the victim?

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Comment #3: Mighty Ponygirl  on  02/13  at  08:47 PM

Also, and on a completely unrelated note (I swear!) ... I prefer my perfume not look like my scotch. You think it’s the sort of mistake you’d only make once…

Comment #4: Mighty Ponygirl  on  02/13  at  08:50 PM

Man, being a conscientious objector to romance is such a huge relief, I have to say.  Without the romantic gesture on Valentine’s Day, I’m not putting off the desire to be loved and comfortable in my relationship and with myself until then, and have to confront that desire on a daily basis.  Luckily for me, I do feel these things now, so I can’t say if my experiment of rejecting romance would work to save me in another bad, failed relationship.  Or, to put it another way, I don’t always have the spigot at my back anymore, and so I don’t need romance to distract me from my sense of unfairness.

Valentine’s Day isn’t President’s Day.  It’s not Election Day.  It’s not your Birthday.  Not everyone needs to run out and celebrate it.  Do you celebrate Mom or Sis or Uncle Pete on Father’s Day?  No.  You celebrate your father.  Do you celebrate Easter if you’re a practicing Muslim?  I would hope not (except perhaps in the secular sense) as that would be fucking dumb.  If you’re not in a relationship, don’t celebrate Valentine’s Day.  This day is not for you.

There is this heavy weight that comes with V-Day.  People feel the need to run off, get a date, have sex, get married, have 2.3 kids, and retire.  That’s not what V-Day is about.  It’s a nice day for couples to anticipate a little romance, but it is not some mandate from Heaven to plaster yourself against your soul mate like its the end of the world.

There is a certain cultural atmosphere that you describe, Amanda, that never really goes away the rest of the year, it just kinda comes to a head tomorrow.  But there’s nothing inherently wrong with a day to celebrate the concept of love and romance.  It’s just that, like Christmas and New Years and every other major or minor holiday, the retail industry believes its their civic duty to rape the fuck out of your wallet and the socially conservative community considers you fair game for not submitting to cultural normals. 

So for some people the holiday gets spoiled.  And that’s a damn shame.  Because, when you’ve got a website like this that fights so hard for gay rights and woman’s respect and social justice of all sorts, what you’re really fighting for is a certain societal gentleness and compassion - a sort communal love.  And that is what this day really SHOULD be about.

Comment #5: Zifnab  on  02/13  at  08:53 PM

Yeah, I told the SO that we needed to shake on a V-Day boycott. I wanted no part of it. He agreed, but didn’t really understand why, I don’t think. (For one, he grew up in a country that didn’t celebrate it. It is slightly foreign to him and he associates it with kids giving valentines to each other in school.)

Anyway, I couldn’t really articulate why it bugs me so much. And I think you just did. So, he will get another Amanda Marcotte post link sent to him for V-day. Which he usually seems to enjoy.

Comment #6: Lexie  on  02/13  at  08:54 PM

Of all shows, “Family Guy” really drew the link between the rape culture and romance most explicitly

I find Family Guy the very vanguard of rape culture.

To clarify, if we were on Family Guy, and I were a male character, if you were a female character, I would be required to punch you at least once in the face, and work down the ethical slope from there.

Comment #7: Yamara  on  02/13  at  09:00 PM

Zif, I am in a relationship.  I’m still boycotting Valentine’s Day.  Because it degrades relationships, in my experience.

Comment #8: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/13  at  09:01 PM

I, for one, prefer my perfume not to smell like scotch. That too is a mistake you make only once.

Comment #9: HooksInMyHead  on  02/13  at  09:02 PM

In related news, I hate the hell out of For Better or For Worse.

That is all.

http://www.fborfw.com/strip_fix/archives/003593.php

Comment #10: asdf  on  02/13  at  09:06 PM

Valentine’s Day.

Meh.

A college girlfriend broke up with me on V-Day. She told me she’d slept with her drama prof. A man.

And y’know? There’s nothing like passing out cheap Valentine’s Day cards in class to make gawky, shy, loveable, smart, dorky third-graders feel like absolute outcasts.

Oughta be stopped sez I.

Comment #11: teac  on  02/13  at  09:16 PM

Ma Griffe may have cynically tried to stop Women’s Lib back in the seventies…

but they’ve since replaced that attitude with inspiring women to embrace prostitution!

I read White Oleandar, in which Astrid (main character) idolizes and befriends a wealthy, elegant, old world sort of beautiful prostitute next door. Olivia (this prostitute) wears Ma Griffe, and what it means in the novel is profound. Fitch makes the scent seem almost magical. Ever since, I have wanted Ma Griffe (along with Penhaligan’s Victorian Posy, the perfume Olivia gave Astrid) for my very own. So when I saw this on the internet at the bargain basement price of $21.95, I had to have it.

http://www.basenotes.net/ID10210611.html

Comment #12: Yamara  on  02/13  at  09:19 PM

Dear Zinfab,
Wallets don’t get raped.  Find a new metaphor. 
Love, the feminist language police

Comment #13: rowmyboat  on  02/13  at  09:27 PM

what you’re really fighting for is a certain societal gentleness and compassion - a sort communal love.  And that is what this day really SHOULD be about.

I would like a day for communal love. That’s not what Valentine’s Day has ever been or will ever be. When it was invented in the 1840s, a story was contrived about the Catholic death cultist to whom it was dedicated. It goes like this: he was killed for violating a law (that never existed) from Claudius II preventing young men from taking wives; the priest Valentinus performed Christian weddings in defiance. How romantic! But nothing to do with communal love, or love among friends or family. Certainly nothing to do with tormenting schoolchildren.

And y’know? There’s nothing like passing out cheap Valentine’s Day cards in class to make gawky, shy, loveable, smart, dorky third-graders feel like absolute outcasts.

Oughta be stopped sez I.

Amen.

Comment #14: asdf  on  02/13  at  09:35 PM

Maybe the problem is that women don’t like Nice Guys™.

Yeah, I went there.

Comment #15: Michael Clear  on  02/13  at  09:48 PM

For trailer dwellers, only Ma Kettle will do.

Comment #16: Ms Kate  on  02/13  at  10:05 PM

It’s one of those things that you really have to negotiate for yourself.  We’re going to celebrate tomorrow—we’re going out for brunch, exchanging gifts (this is what he’s getting), and stopping off at Whole Foods on the way home so he can buy me a nice bunch of flowers.  There was a notion to not exchange gifts this year, but he left it too late and I’d already gotten his.  Maybe next year.

As the years have gone by and I’ve gotten more secure, my Valentine’s requests have gotten less elaborate.  Now I’m perfectly happy getting flowers from the grocery store rather than having them delivered to work to prove someone loves me.  I suspect that if I didn’t feel secure, I’d start demanding more demonstrations.

(Yes, yes, I probably shouldn’t want flowers at all, but I like them.  I’ll buy them myself at random and I want them twice a year only—Valentine’s Day and my birthday.)

Comment #17: Mnemosyne  on  02/13  at  10:07 PM

I just want to thank you so much for writing this.  I appreciate this point of view and the fact that it is fully fleshed out.  I have tried to have this discussion with my girl friends, but can never get the words out completely right. Reading this made me feel like I am not alone or weird for not wanting to want validation all of the time.  also, your new boyfriend sounds amazing.  he should teach a class to other men. 
anyways, thanks.

Comment #18: mclingwall9  on  02/13  at  10:24 PM

In the mid-70s I collaborated on a cartoon in which each panel featured a “pseudo” feminist slogan on a commercial emanating from the TV: “It lets me be me,” for instance. Or “Because I’m worth it.” To sell a product by flattering women. Can’t remember the other items.

Comment #19: daphne  on  02/13  at  10:27 PM

You could try and celebrate Valentine’s Day like we do here in the Norfolk corner of the UK….specifically Mr and Mrs Valentine. Have fun with it!!

Comment #20: Didi  on  02/13  at  10:41 PM

Valentine’s day is also my spouse’s birthday, which simplifies things enormously. Except we can’t go out anywhere on her birthday because all the “nice” restaurants are full of couples being obnoxiously coupled.

Comment #21: paul  on  02/13  at  10:44 PM

Just completely on the side:  “Ma Griffe” in English is “my claw.”  So romantic…

I’ve noticed of late the local jewelry emporia are pushing (surprise!) jewelry.  But only for (straight) men, apparently. Women are assumed to be only recipients.  Where have I heard that before?

But, you know, you can exchange flowers for years and the relationship can still crumble.

Comment #22: Just a Singer in a Rock 'n' Roll Band  on  02/13  at  10:44 PM

Agree 100% about Valentines Day, and the contortions actual humans go through to try to meet the creepy, unrealistic, power-dynamic-riddled heights of Romance™.

I am though a fan of the grand gesture, within or outside of the context of a sex/love partnership. Maybe deep down I do mean romance, but I’d like mine without the stupid gender adherence. Big, spontaneous expressions of love (platonic and/or familial too). Mutual giddiness! Wild risk-taking in the name of being close, being intimate, or becoming closer or more intimate. Vulnerable declarations of caring! Without the P this stuff would be a lot more fun.

Comment #23: mir  on  02/13  at  10:48 PM

The two guys I dated who came closest to buying into the flowers/candy routine were also my most boring and most catastrophic boyfriends.  Poor Boring could cough up a standard romantic gesture on command, which would have been nicer if he could have refrained from telling me that his mom was the one explicitly issuing the commands.  Catastrophic preferred to promise extravagant, romantic presents - like trips - and then never actually come through, although he was good at doing little gestures and then holding it over my fucking head like he’d given me half his liver or something.  Eventually I couldn’t muster up enough enthusiasm over either of these things and he grew resentful of my ingratitude. 

After that, Broke was a refreshing change, but like Mir I also enjoy great and small gestures of affection, and Broke was rather bad at both giving and receiving these things (it’s not like it takes alot for me; I’ve been known to squee with joy over a surprise jar of pickles).  And having someone not care that you planned something for them is worse than having them never plan anything for you.

Comment #24: Kyso K  on  02/13  at  11:27 PM

You know, hardcore feminists likely would not have been reading Madamoiselle in 1972 anyway.  Neither would women who couldn’t afford college, let alone expensive perfume.

This ad may have succeeded in some respects because there were too many affluent women who wore their feminism as a fashion statement, just like they would wear expensive french parfum. They could afford to do so. Ma Griffe wasn’t about the Lilly Ledbetters of the world, nor was a fair amount of second wave feminism.

Comment #25: Ms Kate  on  02/13  at  11:34 PM

For trailer dwellers, only Ma Kettle will do.

*snort*

Ow ow ow ow ale in my sinuses!

Comment #26: teac  on  02/14  at  12:04 AM

“Ma Griffe” in English is “my claw.”

Well, that’s one sense of “griffe”, but probably not the intended one, which this native francophone believes to be the sense that translate to something like “imprint” or “signature”.

Still: horrible ad. But great post! Thanks, Amanda.

Comment #27: fluxisrad  on  02/14  at  12:22 AM

Dear Zinfab,
Wallets don’t get raped.  Find a new metaphor.

THANK you.

Zifnab, do not EVER have the astoundingly poor taste to compare rape to any kind of minor inconvenience in a feminist space again. In fact to be a truly decent human being you wouldn’t do it anywhere, full stop.

That shit is sick.

Comment #28: kristin  on  02/14  at  12:56 AM

The best aspect about Valentine’s for us is that we can guilt relatives into watching our kid for free so we get to have a night out. Also works for: anniversaries, birthdays. Someone asked me today if I was pro or anti-flowers on Valentine’s, and it was hard for me to explain; I just don’t care. But I think Amanda has nailed it; I’m not suffering from a validation-deficit, so I’d rather we spent the cash on a nice restaurant and a show, together.

Comment #29: emjaybee  on  02/14  at  01:08 AM

Hmm, I don’t actively boycott V-Day anymore than I do any other “holiday”.  I think they’re all dumb but V-Day has got to be the dumbest.  As I told the unhusband the first year we were together, there are 362 days (Xmas and b’day don’t count either) in the year in which to express your feelings to me and I’d be more impressed with any one of those days than anything you could possibly conceive of for Feb. 14.  When everyone else is doing it.  My, how special, NOT.  I guess it also helps that I don’t care for chocolate and believe flowers look best in the ground.  And if you buy me an appliance as a “gift” EVER, expect to eat it.  Whole.

Now Christmas, on the other hand, is worth a good boycott.

Comment #30: Pockysmama  on  02/14  at  01:08 AM

The belief that romance is a trick men use to lure unwilling women to have sex with them hasn’t gone anywhere

Yes.  This.

In fact, this is one of the big questions I’ve been mulling over a lot lately, in terms of thinking about gender and sex. 

I have a vagina.  I like sex.  Under Patriarchy: Millenium Style, this does not compute.  Therefore anytime I have sex with a man, I must have been duped into it.  Whether in a misguided search for love, or even just in the garden variety “seduction” sense.  The bottom line is that every time I sleep with a man just because I like sex, I still don’t get to have any real control.  He still “had” me.  I might think I “had” him, but nobody else sees it that way, so who cares?  This is more true the more the sex is just about sex and not about romance or relationship.  No matter how much I want sex and enjoy it, modern American society sees me as some sort of pathetic dupe if I sleep with someone I’m not practically engaged to.

Comment #31: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  01:13 AM

If you’re not in a relationship, don’t celebrate Valentine’s Day.  This day is not for you.

Wow.  Zifnab managed to make Valentine’s Day seem even more idiotic, conformist, othering, and offensive than it already is. 

You can keep it, hun.  Mwah!

Comment #32: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  01:19 AM

I’m in favor of any holiday that emphasizes chocolate. That, for me, is the essence of Valentine’s day, Easter and Halloween.

There is a flower stand adjacent to the coffee shop where my mother and I and an assortment of other aged locals are wont to loiter. They had an expanded display of gorgeous bouquets and I, who don’t particularly care for flowers, was tempted to buy one. Just to support local businesses, of course.

I wonder if I could induce my brother to let us babysit his toddler so he could enjoy a romantic evening with his wife. For us, and especially my elderly mother, babysitting is quality time.

Comment #33: bad Jim  on  02/14  at  02:13 AM

This is only tangentially related, and moot since I already sold out, but what’s the best route for the feminist man to take moving away from V-Day, with a female partner who isn’t necessarily hip to abandoning it?

I debated skipping the standard gestures this year, but ultimately I bought flowers and planned a nice night in because I didn’t really have the heart to say, “Newish girlfriend, Valentine’s Day is a crock, and most romantic gestures are full of patriarchal fail.”  At least, not before the day.  I think I’ll talk about it afterwards, but I just… I don’t know.  I didn’t want to mess up what may be a relatively unalloyed good in her mind.

I mean, obviously the solution is to talk about it.  I’m just wary about talking about stuff like this in the time leading up to the actual event (Christmas gives me similar antsiness, for religious and commercial reasons as well rather than only feminist reasons), because even starting the discussion can lead to arguing.  In my experience, anyway.

Comment #34: Ferox  on  02/14  at  02:37 AM

I had a whole post set to go about how weird V-Day was for someone just celebrating the 1-year anniversary of a wonderful relationship, after a 10-year drought, with someone who treats me so nice I sometimes don’t know how to deal with it. But I decided to scale back the self-indulgence and just go with the short version…I have intimacy with a wonderful woman, and I feel very lucky. And that’s even *before* we get to the nice things she does for me. If I’m apprehensive about anything, it’s wondering if I can ever do anything nice enough for her. Hence Valentine’s Day, and the thought that flowers is pretty much the *least* I can do for her.

As always, YMMV.

Comment #35: Captain Goto  on  02/14  at  02:43 AM

Oh, and no-one’s even mentioned yet that positioning romance as something men do to get sex from women makes it hard to say “Yes, I like the sex, and I like the romance, too” in any meaningful way. After all, if The Sex is already provided by a woman who enjoys it, than The Romance must be unnecessary.

And, not to derail into “feminism hurts men, too!”, but I bet it throws a bit of a complication in for men who like romance, as well.

Comment #36: Photopoppy  on  02/14  at  03:29 AM

Never really paid attention to Valentines day until junior high when it was mainly treated as an excuse for classmates to exchange candies with the boy(s)/girl(s) they liked.  Other than the fact the candies tended to be heart shaped and wrapped up in gaudily red colors…..it wasn’t too different from Halloween trick or treating back then. 

By undergrad and afterwards, the fact the day was associated with so much angst from classmates/co-workers who seem to fall in and out of relationships and the fact the larger society has associated specific “romantic” gestures to this “holiday” with expensive materialistic cliches meant that I ended up viewing it almost as a parody of “Christmas” where a once supposedly “religious family centered”* holiday has been reduced in many parts to one centered on getting as many expensive gifts as possible. 

What’s more funny is that Japanese society have taken this holiday one step further by having two “holidays” associated with “romance”....Valentines Day where women give chocolates and candies to their male SOs and “White Day” where the men answer the Valentine’s Day candy gift by giving candies to their female SOs. 

The main instigator of these holidays…...why the Japanese national confectionary association who have had twice the occasions to guilt-market and sell romantic themed candies as the US since 1978. 

* At least according to US religious-right talking points.

Comment #37: exholt  on  02/14  at  04:34 AM

Last year my boyfriend and I actually both forgot Valentine’s day.  It was kinda funny.  The resulting discussion reveal that neither of us were at all into the holiday and had just been going along with it because we thought it was important to the other.  This year we planned on not doing anything.  I do plan on taking advantage of the discounted chocolate the day after Valentine’s day though.  I’m very fond of chocolate.  But I think if I ever get to a point in life where I feel like I need chocolate to know my boyfriend loves me; I’ll have problems that can’t be solved by sugary treats alone.

Comment #38: laterose  on  02/14  at  04:41 AM

Exholt—it’s worse than that.  Because you don’t just have to give chocolate to your SO.  You kind of “have to” (peer pressure is killer in Japan) give choco to your bosses/coworkers/etc. of the appropriate gender.  “Obligation chocolate” for them and then the good stuff for your SO. 

And while V-day was borrowed and bastardized, White Day was actually invented by a department store to sell white chocolate.  But now it’s just a day where dudes spend 3x as much on the women as the women spent on them, chocolate or not. 

It’s all horribly awkward and commercial, but I almost prefer it to the obvious “chocolates for sex” trade going on in the US.  And maybe I like being surrounded by chocolate for 2 full months, too.  (I’m a woman and I TOTALLY got chocolate today!  Chocolate purchased from a charity, no less.  I can feel twice as good about myself.  I’m also pretty sure the woman who gave it to me is not expecting sex in return.)

Comment #39: BonAppetit  on  02/14  at  05:28 AM

Oddly enough, although we’re both pretty much opposed to the whole idea, a couple of years ago, totally unprompted, my husband started a tradition of sending me a bouquet of David Austin roses on or around Valentine’s Day. We’re both keen rose gardeners, and we have lots of Austin bushes, not so much because we buy the whole “English Roses” marketing hype, but because they’re generally pretty strongly scented, and I don’t have any use for flowers that smell like nothing. I was totally surprised and staggered the first year it happened, because I thought we didn’t celebrate Valentine’s Day, and I hadn’t got anything for him. He explained it was because mid-February seems to inevitably be the height of my winter misery, and he’d been worried about it, when he picked up the post and, along with the annual Austin catalog, they had an advert for their new cut roses, marketed mainly, of course, for Valentine’s Day. So he ordered a big bouquet of roses of the type we have in our garden, which looks absolutely dead and wretched this time of year, not so much because it was Valentine’s Day, but because he wanted to give me a happy little reminder that spring really wasn’t that far off, and before long, we’d be out there, happily tending our roses. And, yes, this is a sappy story, and probably sounds like one of those hyper-defensive OMG WE ARE TOTALLY FEMINIST AND STILL CELEBRATE VALENTINES DAY comments, but I love that annual bouquet of roses, and I am every bit as happy the years they arrive on the 13th or 15th, because it’s not about him trying to buy me off with a self-esteem enhancing romantic gesture, it’s about him actually noticing and caring about the fact that I get so blue this time of year, and going to the effort to get *our* roses, not just whatever the nearest florist had in stock.

Then we order in Chinese or Indian food, and spend the evening going through seed catalogues and debating what the major gardening project is going to be in the upcoming year.

Comment #40: Bella  on  02/14  at  06:49 AM

Although I’ve never been a big fan of Valentine’s Day, I always liked that there was so much remaindered high-end chocolate on sale the days following it.  Yum.

Comment #41: Rumblelizard  on  02/14  at  09:11 AM

There’s nothing like passing out cheap Valentine’s Day cards in class to make gawky, shy, loveable, smart, dorky third-graders feel like absolute outcasts.

Word!  Valentine’s Day: making those who don’t fit in feel terrible about themselves since elementary school.

Though to be fair, I have gained a whole new appreciation for the holiday after getting into fanfiction.  I’ve spent the whole week reading ficlets from fic-a-thons and drabble challenges for which the day was the excuse.

Comment #42: MissIzzy  on  02/14  at  09:58 AM

But maybe we’re less likely to feel that we have to have a bottle of the $100 an ounce stuff or else no one will ever love us.

Perfume advertising is famously a crock; it has little or nothing to do with what the scents actually smell like.  Advertisers just don’t know how to convey the appeal of the stuff (how do you convey “this smells good, you will enjoy it” on a magazine page?), so they lazily appeal to this insulting idea of “romance”.  I think Ma Griffe may actually be more of a “bitch perfume” or an “office perfume”, something designed to smell fresh and bitter rather than soft/feminine/sweet.  Hence the name. 

I do wonder if we’ll see a move in perfume like we have in makeup—a number of newer makeup lines seem to appeal to a sense of fun, rather than man-pleasing or hiding those terrible flaws in your face, and it seems women do respond to that and buy the products.

Comment #43: killjoy  on  02/14  at  10:28 AM

Valentine’s in school is the worst idea EVAR.  You just know those kids only gave you the Valentine card cause teacher said they had to.

I haven’t celebrated Valentine’s in eons, except as a result of my parents having been married on the day.  They always give us presents to commemorate. 

This year, I’m dating a pro-woman, awesome guy.  And he sent me a Valentine.  Totally surprised the shit out of me.  And you know what?  I fucking love it.  I see the flowers, I eat the chocolate, and it’s nice.  Maybe it’s cause he’s out of state and we are long-distancing, but I really appreciated the gesture and I like that it’s here from him.

Comment #44: speedbudget  on  02/14  at  10:43 AM

Cinco de Mayo: holiday for drinking Mexican beer
St. Patrick’s Day: for drinking Irish beer
Valentine’s Day: for guilt, and for eating chocolate
Easter: for eating chocolate
Thanksgiving: for eating
Fourth of July: for drinking and eating and use of a grill
Memorial Day: for a long weekend
Labor Day: to not have May Day like those Eurosocialists
Christmas: to bingegift

We Americans really know how to party!

Comment #45: 3letterjon  on  02/14  at  10:44 AM

Valentine’s in school is the worst idea EVAR.  You just know those kids only gave you the Valentine card cause teacher said they had to.

That’s how I always felt about it. I can’t remember us doing the whole rigamarole past third grade or so, but I do remember feeling terribly uncomfortable with the whole affair. Being a small but growing redneck town in North Mississippi, my classmates were a mix of the children of poor (and I mean dirt poor) white trash and the children of social-climbing rural Southerners, many of whom had already began affecting a rather crappy attitude towards their less-well-off classmates. ‘Course, that’s relatively speaking, as being one of the “rich kids” just meant your dad had a real nice bass boat. Anyhow, the daughter of the local furniture factory owner giving the crappy cards (such as, the ones of Dopey hugging a tree stump or the bad guys out of a superhero set) to the kid who lived in an airstream trailer with his out-of-work father, bruised mother and always at least four siblings just rubbed false. Plus, since this was all about being sort of like Mommy & Daddy and my parents spent most of their evenings beating the shit out of each other…well, let’s just say I was glad to be “too old” to exchange Valentines with my classmates.

As an adult, I haven’t dated anyone on Valentine’s Day in almost a solid decade, so I really don’t feel confident judging the day these days beyond just hating to see so many people who get themselves ina a poor state because their reality fails to match Hallmark’s vision. And the last gift I gave for the last woman I dated on a regular, Valentine’s-worthy basis was a mixtape of Chicago blues and a copy of Catch-22. She liked the book but I never got her to appreciate the blues. Probably something in all that.

Comment #46: Matt T.  on  02/14  at  11:01 AM

but what’s the best route for the feminist man to take moving away from V-Day, with a female partner who isn’t necessarily hip to abandoning it?

My now husband and I used to do Valentine’s Day (cause isn’t that what couples are supposed to do?).  After one year where I ordered a pear tart for dessert and it came surrounded by this sea of strawberry sauce (the tart was shaped like a heart, natch), I was like, seriously? strawberries? in chicago? in February?!?!  It was clearly being served because it was pink, not because it tasted good or complimented the tart.

So, we now go to our favorite dive-y place and have burgers and beer and tip our server extra because everyone else is off at the fancy restaurants.  Which works—a little nod to romance but still being ourselves.


p.s. Mnem, I LOVE the present your husband is getting.

Comment #47: FashionablyEvil  on  02/14  at  11:27 AM

If I’m apprehensive about anything, it’s wondering if I can ever do anything nice enough for her. Hence Valentine’s Day, and the thought that flowers is pretty much the *least* I can do for her.

If you buy her flowers on a day that isn’t Valentine’s, you score double points.

Comment #48: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  12:11 PM

...beyond just hating to see so many people who get themselves in a poor state because their reality fails to match Hallmark’s vision.

I, too, am saddened by all the obvious acute distress, although I think most humans don’t judge their plight by a commercial standard, just a threshold of whether sexual romantic love is in their lives at all.  Will there ever be anyone out there, anywhere, that I can be in love with?

Many others simply watch in whatever window of life they’re in, hardened or wizened or patient.  The fortunate frolic in whatever ways they like.  I’m glad for them.

[shrugs] Folks move on ‘cause life does.  Love?  Romance? In some other life, perhaps.  Keep what love you have in your heart, somehow, and try your best.  There are worse paths to tread in this world.

Comment #49: paradox  on  02/14  at  12:13 PM

Oh, and no-one’s even mentioned yet that positioning romance as something men do to get sex from women makes it hard to say “Yes, I like the sex, and I like the romance, too” in any meaningful way. After all, if The Sex is already provided by a woman who enjoys it, than The Romance must be unnecessary.

This is another side of the same coin I was writing about upthread.  I have a bad habit of defaulting into the subconsciously patriarchal idea that because I’m fine with just sleeping with somebody, I therefore don’t deserve romance, or shouldn’t expect it.  Some weird garbled variation of “why buy the cow if you get the milk for free?” 

Bottom line, I HATE the way that romance is seen as a carrot to hold over the heads of women in order to get sex.  Because just the act of dangling a carrot over my head turns me into some sort of dumb animal.

Comment #50: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  12:15 PM

it’s about him actually noticing and caring about the fact that I get so blue this time of year,

I think this is Yet Another reason I’ve never much cared for Valentine’s Day.  It’s always the height of my winter blues, as well, which really sucks the joy out of almost anything that’s supposed to be “fun”.  If I’m single, it really just underlines the fact that I’m alone and nobody will ever want me, and/or that nobody notices or cares about me, which is often an underlying theme of my depressions already.  If I’m with someone, the whole thing just seems so hopeless because I don’t want to care about such a stupid Hallmark Holiday, but I worry that the person I’m with won’t do anything, and it all goes around and around in my depressed little head until any semblance of fun on Valentine’s Day is ruined.

Comment #51: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  12:23 PM

p.s. Mnem, I LOVE the present your husband is getting.

Thanks!  One of the first Valentine’s Day gifts he ever got me was a Grim Reaper outfit for my Mickey Mouse Pez dispenser, so it’s like coming full circle.

It’s easier to put your own spin on Hallmark holidays when you’re both weird.  wink

Comment #52: Mnemosyne  on  02/14  at  12:57 PM

If I’m single, it really just underlines the fact that I’m alone and nobody will ever want me, and/or that nobody notices or cares about me, which is often an underlying theme of my depressions already.  If I’m with someone, the whole thing just seems so hopeless because I don’t want to care about such a stupid Hallmark Holiday, but I worry that the person I’m with won’t do anything, and it all goes around and around in my depressed little head until any semblance of fun on Valentine’s Day is ruined.

Yeah. I find that Valentine’s day tends to just make me more depressed as well, in whatever situation I’m in. Doesn’t seem to improve my relationships any, and maybe hurts them.

Comment #53: atheist  on  02/14  at  01:08 PM

Valentine’s in school is the worst idea EVAR.  You just know those kids only gave you the Valentine card cause teacher said they had to.

I have my son in a Jewish preschool, and they don’t recognize Halloween or Valentine’s Day because they aren’t Jewish holidays. (By recognize, I mean they don’t do any activities in school related to these days.) Part of me was a little weirded out by that - it made my think of my husband’s evangelical Christian upbringing, where Halloween was the devil’s work, and I thought Reform Jews should be better than that - but right about now I’m pretty glad I didn’t have to go to the store and buy cards and remember the name of every kid in his class or bring in cheap cookies with pink frosting.

As for Valentine’s Day for grown-ups, we’ve never been really into it, other than the excuse to get a relative to baby-sit, like emjaybee said. I’m not anti-romance, but the thoughtful gesture just because always means more to me than the thoughtful gesture because Hallmark told you you have to.

Just like the diamond commercials, it’s also about a one-size-fits-all commercial romanticism, as opposed to actually knowing your partner. A work friend of mine just bought his girlfriend a Swiss army knife for her birthday, and several people at work were giving him shit for what a terrible gift that was. But see, I know his girlfriend, and it’s a great gift for her. But he was being mocked for getting something that actually suited her as opposed to the properly romantic thing. That’s messed up.

Comment #54: chingona  on  02/14  at  01:11 PM

Part of me was a little weirded out by that - it made my think of my husband’s evangelical Christian upbringing, where Halloween was the devil’s work, and I thought Reform Jews should be better than that

I definitely see what you mean.  I kinda internally rolled my eyes at your first sentence, and my first impulse was to think that the school administration is just trying their damndest to suck all the joy out of life.  Especially since neither Halloween nor Valentine’s day are even remotely religious holidays (well, not in this millennium, anyway), and aren’t celebrated religiously at all in the US.  This is like not celebrating Memorial Day because it’s not a Jewish holiday.

Then I realized that organized classroom celebrations of minor holidays like this take a lot of time away from other more interesting activities, and in the case of Valentine’s, the activities are pretty joy-sucking all by themselves.  I also wonder how much of this celebrating in pre-school and elementary school is really just about indoctrination into mainstream American society.  If I hadn’t had to deal with the elementary school Valentine’s Day ordeal, I probably wouldn’t hate it nearly as much as I do now.

Comment #55: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  01:23 PM

shit, “not in this millennium, anyway” should be not in the last 2 millennia.  I kinda forgot that we’re in the 2000’s now.

Comment #56: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  01:24 PM

They classify Halloween (All Saint’s Day) and Valentine’s Day (St. Valentine’s Day) as Christian holidays, which I think is kind of ridiculous because the way these are celebrated here aren’t remotely Christian, and Halloween is pretty clearly pagan in its true origins (though I guess pagan also is a non-Jewish religion). They celebrate secular holidays like Thanksgiving and “rodeo,” which is such a huge deal here in Tucson that I cannot even begin to describe it.

I was pretty eye-rolly about it, but there are a lot of other things that I like about the school, and you’re absolutely right that there are a lot of more interesting classroom activities they can be doing, which is why I’ve come around. It’s not like I can’t take my kid trick-or-treating on my own time.

Comment #57: chingona  on  02/14  at  01:35 PM

Tonight we will be celebrating valentine’s day by getting drunk over at a friend’s place and playing a board game in which gangsters and flappers battle C’thulu using tommy guns and the book of the dead. No, really.

Comment #58: Mighty Ponygirl  on  02/14  at  01:41 PM

Wait, you guys actually leave the house on valentine’s day?

I am staying inside, nursing my hangover and ordering takeout.  I’ll come out when it’s over and the chocolate goes on sale.

Comment #59: LauraB  on  02/14  at  01:44 PM

I suppose the pagan origins draw a pretty clear “non-Jewish” basis, but the US was colonized by white people something like 600 years after the last pagan cultures officially died out.  Also, if you draw the same distinction (no secular holidays that used to be pagan holidays 1500-odd years ago), that also means you can’t talk about Groundhog Day (formerly known as Imbolc), and you should probably eliminate the Fourth of July, Memorial Day, Labor Day, and other “Yay!  Summer!” type celebrations.  Thanksgiving should probably go, as well, for similar reasons.  I hope they don’t do that egg-balancing thing for the vernal equinox, either…

Comment #60: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  01:49 PM

Though ultimately, Chingona, I agree with you.  I’m just being a pedantic neo-pagan nitpicker.  We have a tendency to think that ALL holidays ultimately trace back to pagan holidays.  Even some Jewish ones…

Comment #61: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  01:50 PM

Then I realized that organized classroom celebrations of minor holidays like this take a lot of time away from other more interesting activities

Sure, there are more interesting activities in any given moment, but class celebrations of Valentine’s Day or Arbor Day or all those other minor holidays are just part of having an overall experience. School entails having hundreds of little activities that, if you don’t do them, you don’t know whether you like them or not. Really, I had no idea that people got traumatizing by the grade-school Valentine’s Day card exchange.

And, meh, sorry to hear so many people had bad Valentine’s Day experiences.

I guess it’s like Thanksgiving—sure, maybe you’re such a precious and unique snowflake who’s thankful for things all year around and taing out a special day for it just degrades the experience, but I just can’t get worked up about the supposed negative aspect.

Comment #62: Tyro  on  02/14  at  01:55 PM

We have a tendency to think that ALL holidays ultimately trace back to pagan holidays.  Even some Jewish ones…

Well, sure. But the Jewish holidays have been made Jewish, just like Christmas has pagan origins, but you can’t really say it’s not a Christian holiday now. (And there’s some reason to believe the Pilgrims based Thanksgiving on Sukkot because the Pilgrims were pretty strict about only celebrating holidays that were in the Bible. As long as we’re exchanging holiday-origin trivia.)

Sure, there are more interesting activities in any given moment, but class celebrations of Valentine’s Day or Arbor Day or all those other minor holidays are just part of having an overall experience.

Well, the school provides an overall experience. It’s a Jewish overall experience. Do you feel deprived because your school didn’t do Purimspiels or decorate paper cut-outs of apples for Rosh Hashanah or plant trees for Tu B’Shevat?

I’m really not trying to derail this thread. I only mentioned it to explain why they don’t do Valentine’s Day. But the notion that because the school doesn’t mirror the dominant culture in every detail that its students are somehow deprived is a bit ... irritating, let’s say.

Comment #63: chingona  on  02/14  at  02:04 PM

I’ll come out when it’s over and the chocolate goes on sale.

God Bless us all during discount chocolate week.  It is the reason for the season as far as I’m concerned.

Comment #64: Kyso K  on  02/14  at  02:21 PM

I only mentioned it to explain why they don’t do Valentine’s Day. But the notion that because the school doesn’t mirror the dominant culture in every detail that its students are somehow deprived is a bit ... irritating, let’s say.

chingona, I think your school had a perfectly good reason for not celebrating Valentine’s Day, and the parents sent their kids to the school because they wanted you deprived from experiences that would mirror the dominant culture because they felt that was a good thing. I wasn’t even thinking of your experience specifically—obviously your family wanted to raise you with a jewish upbringing that was as pure as possible. Which is fine, but the precise point was to not provide you with a certain experience that the rest of the culture has and supplant it with a different one.

I think there’s something to be said for public schools having people participate in group activities that are very common in the US because, well, it’s good to give everyone those experiences. Yes, there are some things, at that moment, you might find more interesting, but plenty of students probably feel the same way about music class.

Comment #65: Tyro  on  02/14  at  02:30 PM

Tyro, you clearly didn’t even read my comment, but somehow you feel qualified to discuss it. It’s my son’s school, where I send him, not where my parents sent me. It’s not isolated and pure. They celebrate fucking rodeo, for fuck’s sake. And I never made an argument for public schools not doing Valentine’s Day. I just said it’s kind of nice to not to have to bother, between the 15 other things I have to do on any given day, with getting to the grocery store to buy valentines. That was really my only point.

Comment #66: chingona  on  02/14  at  02:46 PM

I have my son in a Jewish preschool, and they don’t recognize Halloween or Valentine’s Day because they aren’t Jewish holidays. (By recognize, I mean they don’t do any activities in school related to these days.) Part of me was a little weirded out by that - it made my think of my husband’s evangelical Christian upbringing, where Halloween was the devil’s work, and I thought Reform Jews should be better than that - but right about now I’m pretty glad I didn’t have to go to the store and buy cards and remember the name of every kid in his class or bring in cheap cookies with pink frosting.

Valentine’s Day was a “Western” holiday that wasn’t taken too seriously by many Chinese immigrants of my parents’ generation so I didn’t really get any socialization into this holiday from them.  As for school….wasn’t celebrated much in elementary school because most students were in the “romantic love is gross” stage of development…especially among the boys who also stigmatized it as a “holiday for sissies”. 

Only when I started attending a different junior high were there Valentine’s Day celebrations….and even then…was mainly used as an heteronormative excuse to exchange candies between students who liked each other.

Sure, there are more interesting activities in any given moment, but class celebrations of Valentine’s Day or Arbor Day or all those other minor holidays are just part of having an overall experience.

Arbor Day?

None of the public schools I attended really paid any attention to that holiday and if it wasn’t for the mention of that holiday in a few Social Studies/US History texts…my pre-college classmates and I would probably have remained ignorant of it altogether until undergrad.

Comment #67: exholt  on  02/14  at  02:49 PM

class celebrations of Valentine’s Day or Arbor Day or all those other minor holidays are just part of having an overall experience. School entails having hundreds of little activities that,

Exactly.  The point is acculturating kids into mainstream society.  Which is easy to see as indoctrination if the aspect of mainstream society you’re introducing makes you break out in hives.  I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have such awful associations with Valentine’s Day if it weren’t for all the weirdly hegemonic elementary school classroom stuff. 

I feel like one of the main roots of seeing hetero relationships as innately adversarial starts there, or at least the seed is planted there.  And to me, Valentine’s Day is the ultimate expression of the adversarial aspect of romantic relationships.  Because it ultimately devolves, even in the best of situations, into a battle of wills.  Women expect men to do X, Y, or Z (whether that’s roses and chocolate, early daffodils and Swedish Fish, or Indian takeout and a netflixed Godard movie), and men are expected to rebel against that expectation.  Or at worst, it’s about the carrot side of forcing a woman to fuck you on a regular basis.

Comment #68: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  02:52 PM

Tyro, you clearly didn’t even read my comment,

I did read your comment. I simply misread it. I don’t have an issue with that school ignoring Valentine’s Day, but it’s a participatory thing in school for the same reason your school recognizes minor Jewish holidays—it’s part of the cultural milleu.

Only when I started attending a different junior high were there Valentine’s Day celebrations

What can I say, exholt? Your experience was a mirror opposite of mine: grammar school was the time when people wrote valentine’s day cards to all their classmates, and junior high and high school was where it became too stressful for people to deal with unless you were actually dating someone.

Comment #69: Tyro  on  02/14  at  02:54 PM

chingona, I think your school had a perfectly good reason for not celebrating Valentine’s Day,

The funny thing is that, while I don’t think the reason given is a particularly good one, I’m still happy they’re not making a big to-do about it (though of course it’s none of my business either way). 

I mainly commented on Chingona’s comment because it strikes me as funny that her son’s preschool lumps two very, very secular holidays in with “holidays we don’t celebrate because they’re not Jewish”, while I imagine that they do all sorts of other activities with the kids that have about the same level of connection with gentile-ness, they just don’t think about it that way.  It’s more my never-ending fascination with the divide between myth, seasonal rhythms, religion, and pop culture than any hard and fast opposition to anything.

Comment #70: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  02:59 PM

I didn’t really get any socialization into this holiday from them.

The weird thing is that, even growing up white, Christian, and multi-generationally American, I didn’t get any socialization into this holiday from my parents at all.  I think that’s why people have such strong associations with the primary school rituals, and why the discussion of Chingona’s son’s preschool strikes such a nerve.  It’s not a private family holiday, at all, even to the extent that Halloween or the Fourth are.  It’s very much a publicly-oriented holiday.

Which is probably why it’s so fucking hard to divorce our personal attitudes towards it from Teh Mainstream Hegemonic Way.  It’s pretty easy to not celebrate Christmas if you don’t want to, or celebrate it in a way that feels appropriate to you, or whatever.  It’s practically impossible to celebrate Valentine’s Day in a way that isn’t ultimately about a command performance of heteronormative sexuality.

Comment #71: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  03:06 PM

Of course, one of the issues is that Judaism has its roots in the polytheistic, pagan religions around it.  They borrow heavily from the Babylonians that they lived amongst and hated, and even where they differ was more about highlighting the difference between themselves and their Babylonian oppressors—-thus, monotheism, hostility towards female gods, etc.

Comment #72: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/14  at  03:26 PM

Really, I had no idea that people got traumatizing by the grade-school Valentine’s Day card exchange.

Huh, I guess you never saw the boys and girls who only got Valentines from the kids whose parents made them give everyone a Valentine?  There’s nothing like it for self esteem to watch some other kid pour a huge pile of Valentines on to their desk while you have 4.  I mean, when else does a child get a chance to quantify just how unpopular they really are?

Comment #73: FashionablyEvil  on  02/14  at  03:28 PM

Amanda, that’s what I meant when I alluded to the fact that a lot of Jewish holidays trace their roots to paganism in similar ways to a lot of Christian holidays’ relationships to pagan ones.  It’s just much, much further in the past than 1000-1500 years.

Comment #74: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  03:33 PM

Certainly most of the major Jewish holidays tie in with the agricultural cycle and nature. I recently learned that Hannukah, the story of which doesn’t even appear in the codified version of the Hebrew Bible (I think the Catholics are the only ones who have Maccabees, but I’m not sure about that), coincides with the only major harvest in ancient Israel that didn’t already have a feast - the olive harvest and the first pressing of the oil. And anxiety about assimilation (again, see Hannukah) is a very old feature of Jewish life.

Comment #75: chingona  on  02/14  at  03:38 PM

And thus why we neo-pagans have a habit of deciding that all holidays are ultimately pagan in origin—because we’re nature worshippers, and all of our holidays are about major seasonal and agricultural milestones.  Whether that’s “the shortest day of the year” or “the time when we start seeing the very first harbingers of spring” or “eating food that isn’t half-rotten is ROXXORS!!1!11!”

Of course, this is silly, because duh, that’s the whole point of seasonal celebrations.  Just because we stress the seasonal stuff, while other groups stress other more abstract myths, doesn’t mean our holidays are more pure or authentic than all other holidays.

Comment #76: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  03:46 PM

OK, well fine then.  You people who are up to date on BSG can just go talk about that…  What-EVAR.

Flounce!

Comment #77: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  04:03 PM

And to me, Valentine’s Day is the ultimate expression of the adversarial aspect of romantic relationships.  Because it ultimately devolves, even in the best of situations, into a battle of wills.  Women expect men to do X, Y, or Z (whether that’s roses and chocolate, early daffodils and Swedish Fish, or Indian takeout and a netflixed Godard movie), and men are expected to rebel against that expectation.

I think this is the point more than anything else.  The problem is not that people have high expectations for the day, per se.  It’s that men and women are supposed to have opposing expectations and to try and stop the other person from getting what they “really” want (lavish presents for women, sex for men).  The cultural meme is not that men enjoy buying gifts for women—it’s that they buy the gifts in order to manipulate the women in their lives, but it’s okay because women use sex to manipulate them right back.

Which means, of course, that a guy who actually likes being romantic and/or buying gifts is some kind of weirdo, and probably gay because he’s doing it for motives other than to get sex from a reluctant partner.

Comment #78: Mnemosyne  on  02/14  at  04:07 PM

Which means, of course, that a guy who actually likes being romantic and/or buying gifts is some kind of weirdo, and probably gay because he’s doing it for motives other than to get sex from a reluctant partner.

And his female counterpart is the girl who actually likes sex, and thus deserves nothing but scorn for being an evil, evil slut. 

Wow, if those two got together, I think there would be a crack in the heteronormative space-time continuum…

Comment #79: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  04:18 PM

You’re not into BSG either? It’s not just here. It’s every blog I read. I’m dying over here. Check back in a few hours. I have to clean my house, but I have a bit more to say about religion and “authenticity.” If no one else is participating here, I don’t feel like it’s a derail.

Comment #80: chingona  on  02/14  at  04:33 PM

Arkham Horror!  Enjoy yourself, Mighty Ponygirl… I and my geek friends certainly have.

Comment #81: Neil the Ethical Werewolf  on  02/14  at  05:11 PM

My husband and I use Valentine’s Day as an excuse to go to our favorite restaurant - a place we can only afford to go to about twice a year. I kind of wonder, though, why Valentine’s Day is an adequate excuse for splurging on ourselves and not any of the other bogus holidays.

Comment #82: Tesla Dethray  on  02/14  at  05:20 PM

And thus why we neo-pagans have a habit of deciding that all holidays are ultimately pagan in origin—because we’re nature worshippers, and all of our holidays are about major seasonal and agricultural milestones.

You have an easy claim to this one, too. VD just happens to fall upon the Lupercalia.

Comment #83: asdf  on  02/14  at  05:20 PM

“Which means, of course, that a guy who actually likes being romantic and/or buying gifts is some kind of weirdo, and probably gay because he’s doing it for motives other than to get sex from a reluctant partner.”

After almost ten years, my husband still isn’t quite sure how to deal with my general dislike of the stereotypical romantic crap, because he kind of likes a lot of the stereotypical romantic crap but can’t quite square getting it just because he likes it.  I think someone had a similar theory about jewelry on the last diamond thread—a lot of couples wind up with low-grade conflict over jewelry because the guy keeps giving her stuff he really likes rather than trying to figure out if it’s something she’d like or not.  Because the only socially acceptable way for him to express liking it is to decorate her with it, what’s actually a proxy purchase for himself is presented as a gift.

Then, of course, you get into the weirdness with homosocial V-Day posturing, where Valentine’s Day and female expectations turn into just another vehicle for competition or commiseration between men.

Comment #84: preying mantis  on  02/14  at  05:30 PM

Wow, if those two got together, I think there would be a crack in the heteronormative space-time continuum…

Does that mean I’m sitting on a time rift?  Are aliens going to start invading my house? Will Captain Jack Harkness show up to solve the problem? And, most importantly, will he kiss Ianto where I can watch?

My long-distance guy surprised me with a present in the mail a couple of days ago—a beautiful pair of black leather gloves with a cashmere lining.  Because he’d paid attention the last time we saw each other, and I’d noted while we were waiting for a bus that the ones I was wearing were starting to fall apart.  It could count as a Valentine’s present, a birthday present (five days from now) or just a thoughtful gesture. He’s definitely the likes-to-give-presents, likes-fancy-dinners-for-their-own-sake sort… and, yes, I like sex. (We joke that I’m Kaylee from Firefly.)

So… should I dig out the espresso machine for when Torchwood arrives?

Comment #85: Rikibeth  on  02/14  at  05:45 PM

VD just happens to fall upon the Lupercalia.

Though the jury is still out on whether this has any real significance at all.  Lupercalia was a festival local to Rome (as in the city, not the empire), outlawed by Pope Whoever circa 500 AD. 

The earliest evidence of Valentine’s Day is via French “courtly love” stuff in Paris, circa 1400.  There are apparently some allusions in Chaucer, but this is controversial - it seems more likely that he’s talking about Beltaine, which was the big fertility festival in his part of the world (and which happens in May).  And either way, Chaucer is even less Roman than the French courtly love types.

Though both Sts. Valentine honored on St. Valentine’s Day are strongly associated with the city of Rome, so maybe there is some lost connection between the two.

Our modern Valentine’s Day traditions (or at least the source of them) mainly descend from 19th century Britain.  Though I have to say that the more I research “pagan” traditions, the more they seem to inevitably descend from 19th century European ideas about what paganism should have been like.  I just recently had a lot of my ideas about Druids, sacred groves, and the like thoroughly debunked in the same way.

Comment #86: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  06:04 PM

You’re not into BSG either?

I’m into it, I’m just two seasons behind.  Though I should be getting season 3 sometime this week, and I just found out that all the season 4 episodes are up on Hulu.  So I should be caught up just in time to completely miss out on all the BSG gossip threads…

Comment #87: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  06:06 PM

Will Captain Jack Harkness show up to solve the problem?

ZOMG!  If he does, please call me ASAP.

Comment #88: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  06:08 PM

I shouldn’t say I’m not into it. I’ve never seen it. It’s not because I’m deliberately avoiding it. Is it on cable? It seems involved enough that I’m not sure there is any point in even trying to get caught up now, though I did do the entire five seasons of The Wire in about two months and felt it was well worth my time.

Nonetheless, I can’t participate in these threads at all, and ever blog I read seems to be all BSG all the time right now.

Comment #89: chingona  on  02/14  at  06:21 PM

I have no idea what channel it comes on - I’ve only seen it via netflix, and more recently, buying the DVD’s.  In fact, it’s one of the few TV shows I like enough to actually buy on DVD.  Which is high praise coming from a netflix addict like me. 

What kept me from thinking that it’s too involved to even bother with at this late date is that it’s clear that there is a story arc there, unlike LOST, where I’m convinced it’s just going to go on forever, getting weirder and weirder until the fan base gives up in frustration.  Why bother trying to get on that train to hell?  There are 4 seasons of BSG.  There is a beginning of the story, a middle of the story, and presumably an end of the story.  Thus, it’s worth getting involved with.

Comment #90: The Opoponax  on  02/14  at  06:34 PM

I do wonder if we’ll see a move in perfume like we have in makeup—a number of newer makeup lines seem to appeal to a sense of fun, rather than man-pleasing or hiding those terrible flaws in your face, and it seems women do respond to that and buy the products.

demeter perfumes pretty much are the definition of appealing to a sense of fun. they have scents like dirt and playdoh and gin and tonic. i have one called “wet garden” that smells like a rainy muddy spring day and i love it.

Comment #91: jessilikewhoa  on  02/14  at  10:50 PM

Here’s the obligatory Biology/St Valentines Day/Lab story, but an interesting one this time:

In an experiment, Hill explained, pairs of heterosexual college students who kissed for 15 minutes while listening to music experienced significant changes in their levels of the chemicals oxytocin, which affects pair bonding, and cortisol, which is associated with stress. Their blood and saliva levels of the chemicals were compared before and after the kiss.

Both men and women had a decline in cortisol after smooching, an indication their stress levels declined.

For men, oxytocin levels increased, indicating more interest in bonding, while oxytocin levels went down in women. “This was a surprise,” Hill said.

In a test group that merely held hands, chemical changes were similar, but much less pronounced, she said.

The experiment was conducted in a student health center, Hill noted. She plans a repeat “in a more romantic setting.”

Comment #92: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  02/14  at  11:03 PM

Really, I had no idea that people got traumatizing by the grade-school Valentine’s Day card exchange.

Then you were probably part of the problem!

lot of couples wind up with low-grade conflict over jewelry because the guy keeps giving her stuff he really likes rather than trying to figure out if it’s something she’d like or not.

I wish I could find a woman (other than my mom) that approach worked on, because I’m not half bad at it. Or a woman at all, for that matter…

Comment #93: Devonian  on  02/15  at  12:15 AM

I think someone had a similar theory about jewelry on the last diamond thread—a lot of couples wind up with low-grade conflict over jewelry because the guy keeps giving her stuff he really likes rather than trying to figure out if it’s something she’d like or not.  Because the only socially acceptable way for him to express liking it is to decorate her with it, what’s actually a proxy purchase for himself is presented as a gift.

Heh. My parents joke about the fact that when my dad buys jewelry for my mother (which he does a lot; he’s got some collecting/completionist issues) he’s really buying it for himself. He admits it, too. Luckily, my mother and he share the same taste. And he does like romantic gestures, perhaps because he’s European and resistant to traditional American anxious masculinity.

Comment #94: annejumps  on  02/15  at  12:12 PM

A lovely Valentine’s Day card courtesy of Tbogg.

Comment #95: Mnemosyne  on  02/15  at  02:03 PM

I don’t like Valentine’s Day because I swear, at least 60% of the population feels bad- many singles, partnered folks whose partners can’t live up to the expectations of the day, and of course, grade school kids. So it’s basically bad feelings all around.

Comment #96: shannon  on  02/15  at  02:56 PM

In or out of a relationship, I’ve never really taken V-day seriously. Or “romance”. But it wasn’t out of any conscious feminist conviction - “romance” has just seemed idiotic, arbitrary, confining.

In grade school, the ritual exchange of cards just seemed like a chore, because the sentiments expressed on them were either plainly false or just incomprehensible to my pre-pubescent self. The thing only made sense as referendum on who’s popular.

Comment #97: wapsie  on  02/15  at  04:30 PM

One should always avoid the amateurs by never celebrating on the exact day that they do.

Comment #98: scratchy888  on  02/15  at  07:02 PM

Neil—I do enjoy it—but I need to play with the right people….!!!! We still haven’t finished a game because we started one game pretty late at night and didn’t have time to go through a game, and then the second time I played I got exhasperated because I was playing with someone who liked to analyze, over-analyze, and then analyze again. JUST SHOOT THE DAMN DHOLE!

We didn’t get around to it on Saturday night, alas. We played the Hall of Meat on Skate 2 instead, which was also worthwhile.

Comment #99: Mighty Ponygirl  on  02/15  at  11:44 PM
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