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Vampire novels are not quite “Little House On The Prairie”, but nice try

Jesse’s always blogging about the weird tendency of conservatives to read the tea leaves of popular culture to prove that creeping conservative sentiment is breaking through.  And it’s invariably funny.  Add to the pile this bit of wishful thinking from anti-feminist Leonard Sax, (hat tip) where he romanticizes—-as creepy middle-aged misogynists are wont to do—-teenage girls of supple limbs and tender minds.  Teenage girls are real women, you know, well, at least the teenage girls of the 12-15 range, when they’re so

easy to lure into your car with wine coolers

in touch with true womanhood, as expressed, I’m not kidding, by vampire novels.  Specifically, the popular “Twilight” series of books, about a love triangle between human girl, vampire, and werewolf.

Despite all the modern accouterments in the “Twilight” saga, the girls are still girls, and the boys are traditional men. More specifically: The lead male characters, Edward Cullen and Jacob Black, are muscular and unwaveringly brave, while Bella and the other girls bake cookies, make supper for the men and hold all-female slumber parties. It gets worse for feminists: Bella is regularly threatened with violence in the first three books, and in every instance she is rescued by Edward or Jacob. In the third book she describes herself as “helpless and delicious.” (Warning: Fans who haven’t read the fourth book should skip to the next paragraph.) Bella spends the first half of the final installment in the most helpless condition of all—pregnant and confined to bed rest. She is unable to leave the house and becomes capable of defending herself only after she becomes a vampire….

Yet on some level, it seems that children may know human nature better than grown-ups do. Consider: The fascination that romance holds for many girls is not a mere social construct; it derives from something deeper. In my research on youth and gender issues, I have found that despite all the indoctrination they’ve received to the contrary, most of the hundreds of teenage girls I have interviewed in the United States, Australia and New Zealand nevertheless believe that human nature is gendered to the core. They are hungry for books that reflect that sensibility. Three decades of adults pretending that gender doesn’t matter haven’t created a generation of feminists who don’t need men; they have instead created a horde of girls who adore the traditional male and female roles and relationships in the “Twilight” saga.


Like Dylan says, the shorter version is: Teenage girls, deep down inside, want you to impregnate them and tie them to a bed.  But don’t forget, Sax fans, that the official story you tell the cops is that she seduced you.  You know how those little minxes can be.

Sarah Seltzer who was, unlike Leonard Sax, a teenage girl and who, unlike Leonard Sax, sees them as human beings instead of

cum receptacles

objects to project fantasies on, has a more likely explanation: The vampire fantasy, which has intrigued teenage girls over and over in various forms, is displaced sexual longing.  Because assholes like Sax insist that proper girls are about romance and not sex, girls have trouble reconciling desire with expectations.  In steps the vampire story, a sexual fantasy that reflects both the danger that girls are told is part of sex, but doesn’t have the actual physical sex part that makes them feel dirty.  But it has loads of penetration.  I read trashy vampire books as a teenage girl, and let’s just say that it’s like reading romance novels.  You can be distinctly dissatisfied with certain plot lines, as I was any time the heroines would be passive like this Bella character appears to be, but they’re still fun.  And sometimes you’d rather read them where people can’t see you, because there’s something deliriously dirty about them.  It’s why I loved “Buffy the Vampire Slayer”, which made the subtext of these stories textual, by having Buffy literally sleep with her vampire love.  By getting it out in the open like that, the character’s sexuality didn’t consume her, but was just part of her well-rounded personality.

Really, just read Sarah’s take, which is one million times more intelligent than Sax’s.  It’s about how vampires address virginity myths and fears, and how the “I want your blood but can’t” is just another form of the long dance of the romance novel, but concealed to make it more palatable.  With all the pressure on teenage girls to deny their sexual feelings, lest they be treated like sluts, it’s no wonder vampire stories have such appeal.  Meanwhile, I’ve told Sarah that I’m intrigued by the idea of reading these books, though god knows I’m swamped with the more serious reading list.

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 11:15 PM • (79) Comments

Um…like, duh?

Comment #1: gwangung  on  08/18  at  11:41 PM

I’m looking forwards to his declamations on the hetronormativity of the Blade series, and how Wesley Snipes is a direct refutation of Betty Fredian.


//heh heh heh

Comment #2: Indy  on  08/18  at  11:46 PM

The Anne Rice books indicate that all women want to be gay vampire dudes, deep down inside.  Not pregnant, but with 5-year-olds in tow.

Comment #3: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/18  at  11:53 PM

Dudes, does anyone else not see the obvious problems between Leonard Sax extolling the virtues of Old Skool masculinity while at the same time admitting to having read all of the “Twilight” novels?

Comment #4: blucas!  on  08/18  at  11:59 PM

The fascination that romance holds for many girls is not a mere social construct; it derives from something deeper.

Why don’t we get any of these idiotic pronouncements about teenaged boys and porn?

Comment #5: Dorothy  on  08/19  at  12:01 AM

We do though, Dorothy!  The whole “dudes are like wild animals who just can’t help themselves” argument.  In fact, it comes around neatly to the vampire novel thing; male sexuality = monstrosity, etc.

Comment #6: blucas!  on  08/19  at  12:03 AM

I’d honestly be interested in seeing your take on them.  I personally couldn’t make it through the first one*, but I’ve heard a lot about them from one friend who hates them, one friend who loves them, and various fannish communities. From what I gather they’re full of even more blatant misogyny than even your average Harlequin bodice-ripper.  I’m not trying to sound alarmist there, and I seriously doubt that many of the teenage girls who read them will decide that a guy they just met breaking into their house to watch them sleep is cute rather than creepy as a result. I would like to see whether the consensus here equals out to “typical trash entertainment” or “completely twisted,” as I’m kind of unsure where I stand on them myself.

*Should you decide to read them, be prepared for buckets upon buckets of purple prose.

Comment #7: luzzleanne  on  08/19  at  12:07 AM

Meyers’ vampires, recognizing the biting = sex thing and being good little vampires, save it for marriage.  Which makes their popularity even more puzzling to me.

I mean, there’s preferring traditional gender roles and then there’s describing the girl as a “moon orbiting a planet [the vampire boy].”  Also, the vampires sparkle in sunlight, which is just hilarious.

Teenage girls also tend to like Mercedes Lackey, whose heroines (and gay heroes) frequently get raped (like…2/3 of the time? in the Valdemar books).  I shudder to think how these folks would interpret that.

Comment #8: Mel  on  08/19  at  12:08 AM

Hrmmm.  So, has anyone read the any of the Twilight books?

Sax certainly doesn’t make me want to leap out and go get one, but I’m not inclined for the vampire thing anyway.  I was content in ignoring them as long as they never bothered me.

Comment #9: idiosynchronic  on  08/19  at  12:10 AM

Ah, thank you, luzzleanne.

I hated Anne Rice with a deep passion since she bored me with Interview, and this just looks like the Harry Potter version with a little Mercedes Lackey (thank you, Mel) thrown in.

Comment #10: idiosynchronic  on  08/19  at  12:12 AM

“Buffy” had a scene with the watching-her-sleep thing.  It’s pretty standard vampire stuff. 

Vampire stories are fantasies of being incredibly attractive and having sexual power.  When you’re a teenage girl, you’re very disempowered, especially sexually, at least if you live in a conservative environment.  You’re constantly being harassed by boys your age and older men, and so the initiation into sexual attention from men is a humiliating ordeal.  The vampire fantasy is, in that light, a fantasy of disabling male predation.  The ultimate symbol of the predatory male—-the vampire—-in this fantasy doesn’t hoot and holler and remind you that he has power over you, both to sexually assault you and to ruin your reputation.  In this fantasy, your goodness and beauty overpowers him and changes him from the predator to a loving guy.

And then you grow up and hopefully let go of the fantasy that piggish males are redeemable in any way, shape, or form.

Comment #11: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/19  at  12:24 AM

I had heard some good things about these books and was looking for some light reading so I picked up my roommate’s copy.  I got about 150 pages in to the piont where the author is describing Bella clearing the spam from her computer and I had had enough.  It is 800 pages because the author has no sense of what is plot worth describing.  It reads like fanfiction, for real.  I wrote better when I was 16 and I am not any sort of writer.

Then I did some further research on the author and found that she was a mormon and that the books are all about gender roles and chastity and all that and I was glad I didn’t waste any more time on the stuff.

I am not surprised that conservatives are all excited about it.  They are naturally drawn to the shitty and the vapid.

Comment #12: GumbyAnne  on  08/19  at  12:24 AM

Caw. Next we’ll learn that all boys, despite liberal conditioning against it, really want to be repeatedly beaten into near-coma as a way of validating their love for a Good Woman.

Comment #13: paul  on  08/19  at  12:24 AM

I hated Anne Rice with a deep passion since she bored me with Interview, and this just looks like the Harry Potter version with a little Mercedes Lackey (thank you, Mel) thrown in.

To be fair to Anne Rice she at least had her moments of competence as a writer. I’m not so sure Stephenie Meyer does.

And if you’s like a rather amusing summary to confirm your suspicions, there’s one here.

Comment #14: luzzleanne  on  08/19  at  12:26 AM

Vampire stories are fantasies of being incredibly attractive and having sexual power….

And then you grow up and hopefully let go of the fantasy that piggish males are redeemable in any way, shape, or form.

Oh no, I definately get that.  Everyone loves Bella as soon as they meet her; she’s definately all about the desire to be wanted.  The relationship between the two main characters is portrayed as borderline abusive at times though. He constantly calls her an idiot. He smashes her car so she can’t go see her [male] friend. He does the sneaking into her room thing.  He leaves and she literally can’t function for months without him. It’s pretty clear the author intends all this to be cute and romantic.

Like I said, I doubt the girls reading it will take most of it to heart. I know I sure didn’t with my high school romance novels.  Maybe it’s the fact that Meyer seems to be airing some of her own issues without any self-awareness that makes me so uncomfortable.

Comment #15: luzzleanne  on  08/19  at  12:47 AM

Ok, I haven’t read the books, but I did read the Entertainment Weekly review. Shouldn’t Sax be furious that his “real man” Edward tried to convince Bella to abort his demon spawn? Or does that not count, since she decided to carry a pregnancy that had a high chance of killing her.

I, by the way, adored Mercedes Lackey as a teenage girl.

Comment #16: Av0gadro  on  08/19  at  12:52 AM

Oh, yay!  Another chance to link to <a >Cleolinda’s excellent Twilight recaps!</a>.  Really.  Read them instead.

Also, the Twilight saga was written by a Mormon.  She’s trying to make it like Little House.  Really.  She also didn’t research any vampire mythology or poplar culture trends.  She wanted to remake vampire mythology without learning any of it.  The whole story of those books in amazing and LOL-ful.  Cleo links to a lot of it.

Comment #17: kouredios  on  08/19  at  12:53 AM

Erg.  My first time posting links here.  Will this work instead?  http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/630150.html

Comment #18: kouredios  on  08/19  at  12:53 AM

My favorite thing about Anne Rice is “The Vampire LeForge”, a Star Trek story written in her voice.  If you ever happen to find a copy of Treks Not Taken, I strongly recommend checking it out.

Comment #19: Neil the Ethical Werewolf  on  08/19  at  12:56 AM

I don’t really like Anne Rice’s vampire stuff, but I must say that “The Feast of All Saints” is one of the most engaging books I have ever read.  Really quite good.

Comment #20: GumbyAnne  on  08/19  at  01:05 AM

i was a teenage vampire lover, and while teh sex was a huuuuuuuuuuuuge reason i read the books, i can’t discount the other reason, being the angst. afterall, like many teens, i was convinced “life sucks” and who is going to better understand how much life sucks than a vampire, someone who is stuck living for-fucking-ever. so yeah, teenage obsession with vampires has nothing to do with a longing for traditional patriarchal bullshit, and everything to do with the fact that most teenagers are made up of a volatile combination of sex and angst.

Comment #21: jessilikewhoa  on  08/19  at  01:28 AM

Amanda, for the love of all that is good and non-denominationally holy, do NOT buy any of these books. EVER.

I had the “pleasure” of reading (note: I only read it because I was being paid by an executive I worked for who was too lazy to read it themselves) Twilight and by jove how in the hell Stephnie Meyer got a book deal is beyond me. Aside from the lack of plot or even something remotely resembling a character, the writer is just awful, as many others have stated.

And thank you, luzzleanne for the link! That recap is pretty much spot on for those books. Now Meyer’s is getting the backlash for her last book, Breaking Dawn, which, as Av0gadro already pointed out, was reviewed in Entertainment Weekly and Breaking Dawn seems to be finally waking up the fans to the fact that this series is shitty.


*****spoiler*******

Bella (after having been a good non-slut and saving herself for marriage) is pregnant with a half vampire baby that is so strong when it kicks it breaks her ribs. Even with Edward urging her to abort she refuses because this is All. She’s. Ever. Wanted. Mind you, this is after losing her virginity to Edward where he’s so “passionate” during sex she’s bruised all over her body, like, black and blue bruises, but she doesn’t care because Edward luvs her and didn’t want to hurt her, he just got carried away in his “passion”.

Meyers defended the storyline by saying that for some women, growing up and being a mother is all they ever want, and for a lot of women that’s true, but jeezus, she could have at least bothered to take a creative writing class.

Comment #22: UltraMagnus  on  08/19  at  01:34 AM

“Buffy” had a scene with the watching-her-sleep thing.  It’s pretty standard vampire stuff.

A lot of the standard vampire/Goth imagery derives from Henry Fuseli’s painting _The Nightmare_.

Comment #23: FlipYrWhig  on  08/19  at  01:35 AM

Wonder what Sax would do with Cthulhu? Make him Vice President?

Comment #24: sunsin  on  08/19  at  01:39 AM

Someone needs to look into Leonard Sax’s “hundreds of teenaged girls I have interviewed”.  Who the FUCK let that creep near minors?  What are his credentials?  “Uh…I’m a researcher”  Poor girls.  What kind of skeevy shit was he asking them?  Ick.

Comment #25: Donna  on  08/19  at  01:41 AM

“so yeah, teenage obsession with vampires has nothing to do with a longing for traditional patriarchal bullshit, and everything to do with the fact that most teenagers are made up of a volatile combination of sex and angst. “

Not to mention the immortality stuff.  I recall being about 15 or so, and being utterly obsessed with the fact that I would one day cease to exist.  I couldn’t wrap my mind around it, awash in growth hormones as I was.  I fell easily into the goth vampire thing.  It was such a refreshing fuck you to the cruel cycle of life: birth - interlude of quiet desperation and shittiness - and then a slow lingering demise.  Fuck that noise.  I was going to be a vampire, feasting off the blood of foolish drones.

Comment #26: Donna  on  08/19  at  02:00 AM

This is why Poppy Z. Brite’s vampire novels were the best.  Everyone was pretty much gay, with a minimum of innocent teenage girls lurking around.  I mean, you always had to have one or two, but they were usually not the protagonists.  And the vampires were either gay or heavily bisexual, so they could either take or leave the nubile young girls.  It was a nice twist on the conventional “vampire = sexual predator” narrative.

That, and they drank a lot of absinthe, did a lot of cool drugs, and had names like Arkady and Malachai.

Comment #27: The Opoponax  on  08/19  at  02:02 AM

@kouredios: thanks for the cleolinda link!  Reading her version totally makes up for having to read the books themselves.
I work at Borders, and we had a midnight release party for the 4th book—vampire prom party, which was actually fun as hell—so I had to read the first three in order to help run some of the events. And then I needed to know what finally happened, so I broke down and read the 4th.
It was kind of like eating an entire bag of Fritos at one go: you know it’s bad, but you can’t stop yourself, and when you’re finished, you feel a little sick—and proud, in a weird kind of way.

Comment #28: hbsweet, empress of ice cream  on  08/19  at  02:22 AM

Obviously this dude has not yet READ the fourth Twilight book, which pretty much destroys his thesis.  In it, Bella bears a child, becomes a vampire, is the numero-uno STRONGEST vampire ever physically and mentally, and has the ultimate kick-ass power that defeats the bad guys.  Oh, and by the way, her sister-in-law creates the strategy that makes victory possible.  Edward, the vamp of her heart, looks pretty and is sexy throughout; in fact, all the guys are pretty and valiant, and totally subordinate to the women, who make the plans and fight the battles.

Yes, there is a totally retch-worthy wedding scene.  And yes, the romance itself is also pretty retch-worthy, and the Bella of the second novel, the lovelorn chick, made we want to strangle her.  So this is by no means the feminist tome I wish my fourteen-year-old daughter would read.

It is, however, the four-novel series she read and loved.  Her favorite part?  “Mom, Bella KICKS ASS and SAVES THE WORLD.”  So not a total loss, either.

Comment #29: Leigh Williams  on  08/19  at  02:44 AM

Oh, and by the way, having a baby is NOT all Bella.Ever.Wanted.  It is something that she believes she has foregone altogether, and without too much regret, either.  After she realizes she is pregnant, however, she does indeed want her baby and will not allow it to be aborted.  Valid choice, folks.  Remember, we’re pro-CHOICE, right?  And so, while the pregnancy is damned unpleasant (so were mine, by the way, though I can’t say broken bones resulted), it is a case of her body, her choice.  And, after all, she knew she would vamp up before the Ultimate Sacrifice anyway.

Being all cuddly mama doesn’t keep her from kicking ass, either.

Comment #30: Leigh Williams  on  08/19  at  02:54 AM

Trashy vampire novels always infuriate me.

There is nothing. NOTHING more awesome than humans. Let any undead, alien, or cetaceans who objects bring it, I’ll say it to their bottlenoses.

What’s the best Vampires have to offer? Spike? Dracula? Mankind ill needs as savior such as that.

Humans have Capt. Jean Luc Picard. He’ll spend 5 minutes of a 40 minute show explaining to you just WHY humans are so damn awesome.

I’ll take Picard over a Mormon Vampire any day of the week.

Also, what’s that shit about molesting babies or something? chick is fucked up.

Comment #31: karpad  on  08/19  at  02:54 AM

I have to agree with you, Picard is pretty damn awesome.

Comment #32: Pietoro  on  08/19  at  03:18 AM

Speaking of sex and young adult novels, I was reading Cory Doctorow’s “Little Brother” and…

==SPOILERS==
Holy shit!  The main character loses his virginity to a girl who comes across as a perfectly normal, decent, horny adolescent like him, he doesn’t seem to know or care if it’s her first time, and it specifically mentions that they use a condom!  And what’s more amazing, the act isn’t a miniature apocalypse that changes the hero’s life forever; it’s just one event in an ongoing narrative.  Come to think of it, he doesn’t even use the word “virginity”; I believe he calls it “getting laid for your firstest time ever.”

When I have kids, they’re reading that book.

Comment #33: realityfighter  on  08/19  at  03:57 AM

Poppy Z. Brite can also write a fairly decent sex scene without having the page drip with sugary coated euphemism.  Oh hell, she can just plain write,  Exquisite Corpse knocked me out.

Comment #34: Godless Heathen  on  08/19  at  04:24 AM

This is why Poppy Z. Brite’s vampire novels were the best.

not to mention her new series, which i havent had a chance to check out yet, is about gay chefs. from what i understand having read her interviewed about the series, she gets hella descriptive talking about the food. more books need to go in depth describing food, besides you kno, cookbooks.

Comment #35: jessilikewhoa  on  08/19  at  04:44 AM

Those books sound awful. I’d rather watch the original Dark Shadows. The writers weren’t afraid to let the women fight back, effectively, or even be the dangerous ones themselves.

Comment #36: Samantha Vimes  on  08/19  at  04:50 AM

Jesse’s always blogging about the weird tendency of conservatives to read the tea leaves of popular culture to prove that creeping conservative sentiment is breaking through.

This tendency is especially weird in light of the fact that America gets more and more liberal as time goes on. We free slaves, we give women the vote, we pass civil rights laws. Now we’ve begun to legalize gay marriage. Conservatives can clutch at any backsliding that may happen, but there is nothing in the history of this country that suggests we’ll do anything on a macro level but keep getting more and more liberal. (Whether we’ll get to a level of liberality that equals human decency before we implode is a question to which history does not give us a clue.)

Anyway, all I know about these Twilight books is that my sister is in love with that Edward character, and it creeps me out. I have so many really good books on my reading list, that I’ll never finish it, let alone make it to YA vampire stuff, so I am ready for all the spoilers and feminist analysis I can get without having to actually read the stuff.

Comment #37: Lauren O  on  08/19  at  04:52 AM

Oh, and Donna’s right, and the movie The Lost Boys captured it well. Die young and live forever—strong, pretty, fast-healing. Come to think of it, the original BtVS movie version touched on that, too, with a loser boy enjoying being a vampire because he thought it would make him seem cooler. Vampires don’t have acne, and they don’t (unlike our older relatives) talk about finding gray hairs or wrinkles. When you’re a teen, you think you’ll probably be dead before 30 anyway, so dead and immortal is kind of tempting.

Comment #38: Samantha Vimes  on  08/19  at  05:01 AM

Die young and live forever—strong, pretty, fast-healing.

Except you don’t. you just die.

The thing that killed you walks around wearing your skin, remembering some of the things that you remember, using those memories in an utterly sociopathic way to destroy everything you new and loved when you lived.

Vampire bites as sex? no. vampire bites are rape. and not just any rape. that brutal, systematic type you see practiced in prison camps as an act of genocide. It’s a weapon of murder used by the dead against the living.

“Vampires are cool” is an unthinking, adolescent reaction. Fuck vampires.

God45 was right about everything.

Comment #39: karpad  on  08/19  at  05:34 AM

I could be wrong, but I suspect that the sociopathy is a large part of the adolescent appeal of vampires. If you hate everyone and everything around you, maybe it’s appealing to fantasize about having an predator-prey relationship with the people around you (with you on the top of the food chain, of course) instead of having to deal with a bunch of messed-up person-to-person relationships. Plus, if you’re an angsty adolescent, why wouldn’t you want to steal men’s souls and make them your slaves?

karpad’s of course right about the vampire-bite-as-rape metaphor, which as far as I know dates all the way back to Dracula, but this is the first time I’ve heard it tied in with rape-as-genocide. Interesting, and creepy as hell. I’m also reminded of the novel Blindsight by Peter Watts, which plays up the vampire-as-sociopath angle and contains some speculation as to what happens if a society lets itself be dominated by sociopaths. So yeah. Fuck vampires.

Comment #40: Mr. Chris  on  08/19  at  06:44 AM

My favourites as a child were Christopher Pike’s (I know, I know) <i>The Last Vampire<i> series. It was told in first-person from a female vampire’s point of view, and she was pretty awesome/asskicky.  This was more from the vampire-as-antihero school though, not vampire-as-secret-love-interest school.

Has anyone here read <i>Sunshine<i>? It was actually quite good.  It also takes the vampire/sex subtext and blows it open - lead character is an adult woman who actually talks about the usual teenage obsession with vampires in terms of sex and power, and her relationship to the vampire is… interesting.  And she kicks a lot of ass… I’m sort of crushed that afaik there hasn’t been a sequel yet.

Comment #41: Arianna  on  08/19  at  08:25 AM

Oh bollocks.  This is what I get when I try to post just after I wake up and have a cat on my lap.  Incidentally it doesn’t look like any of the tags worked anyway, so at least I probably haven’t italicized the whole thread?

Comment #42: Arianna  on  08/19  at  08:27 AM

Oh no, I definately get that.  Everyone loves Bella as soon as they meet her; she’s definately all about the desire to be wanted.  The relationship between the two main characters is portrayed as borderline abusive at times though. He constantly calls her an idiot. He smashes her car so she can’t go see her [male] friend. He does the sneaking into her room thing.  He leaves and she literally can’t function for months without him. It’s pretty clear the author intends all this to be cute and romantic.

Good god.  Already young women have enough problems spotting abusers because our culture frames their possessiveness as “romantic”.

Comment #43: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/19  at  09:16 AM

echoing gwangung: Duh.

I read about the coding and the reasons for it (on the example of “Dracula” and Victorians) more than 20 years ago in a book that was old then, and my reaction (being a teenager) was, already, oh, of course.

But as long as morons like Sax are bleating their pop culture essentialism, the obvious can’t be said too often.

Comment #44: inge  on  08/19  at  10:04 AM

The fascination that romance holds for many girls

Lenny, baby: romance fascinates masses of people from every demographic, if sales of anime, SF books and films, fantasy books and films, Western books and film, graphic novels, superhero comics, D&D;accessories, video games and, yes, porn (as someone mentioned above) are any indication.

It’s all about idealized/non-realistic worlds and our utter devotion to them, in any form.

Yes, I’m using the broader definition of “romance”, but dammit, I move that we re-popularize that definition (beyond academia) in order to combat this tenacious “only chicks dig Teh Fake” meme that’s nagged at popular imagination since the 18C.  I make pretty good strides vexing undergrads’ gender biases when I point this out to them.

Comment #45: Ranylt  on  08/19  at  10:18 AM

Oh darn, someone beat me to the Cleolinda link.

Another creepy thing that happens: Bella’s rejected suitor, a werewolf, “imprints” on Bella’s NEWBORN daughter and is therefore destined to be her lifelong love blah blah insanitycakes. Did I mention she was NEWBORN. I’m sorry, even though she’s superpowered and can read minds or whatever, that’s still creepy.

Comment #46: annejumps  on  08/19  at  10:23 AM

blucas!: Dudes, does anyone else not see the obvious problems between Leonard Sax extolling the virtues of Old Skool masculinity while at the same time admitting to having read all of the “Twilight” novels?

I bet he did it strictly for, eh, “rearch purpose”.

luzzleann: From what I gather they’re full of even more blatant misogyny than even your average Harlequin bodice-ripper.

I noticed the books only because I was wondering what all the wankage in fandom was about. No intention of reading them, and I even liked the first two books of the Vampire Chonicles (but they were new then).

  I’m not trying to sound alarmist there, and I seriously doubt that many of the teenage girls who read them will decide that a guy they just met breaking into their house to watch them sleep is cute rather than creepy as a result.

IME teenage girls are perfectly capable of knowing the difference between a fantasy and a real-life situation. Even elementary school kids admit on second thought that having a father who’s a lion tamer in a travelling show might have some drawbacks. The only people unable or unwilling to make those distinctions seem to be conservatives.

Vampire stories are fantasies of being incredibly attractive and having sexual power.

I’d have regarded most vampire stories as rape fantasies, but I stopped reading them some time ago, so I’m probably not up to date on current fashions. I tried “Agyar” by Steven Brust, but the narrator was just too damn creepy for my taste.

karpad: The thing that killed you walks around wearing your skin, remembering some of the things that you remember, using those memories in an utterly sociopathic way to destroy everything you new and loved when you lived.

Word. I found it interesting how “Buffy” (the series) moved away from that bleak stance, but in first and second season, they were quite strong on it. Today zombies are filling that ecological niche.

Comment #47: inge  on  08/19  at  10:43 AM

Lenny, baby: romance fascinates masses of people from every demographic, if sales of anime, SF books and films, fantasy books and films, Western books and film, graphic novels, superhero comics, D&D;accessories, video games and, yes, porn (as someone mentioned above) are any indication.

I’ve had more than one boyfriend whose favorite anime genre was “Perfect woman falls from sky into awkward high school boy’s life, bringing with her a zany cast of sexy friends.”  There are a lot of series in that genre.  Just saying.

Comment #48: Kyso K  on  08/19  at  10:55 AM

I tried to read Twilight when I got stuck on the Trip From Hell back from New York this summer - it is really for 14 year old girls, very high school romance with a vampire twist.  Couldn’t get more than half way through it - I see why teenage girls of my acquaintance love it, but frankly, I’ll take Buffy and Angel any day.  The writing was a whole lot better on Buffy than in Twilight.

Comment #49: geordie  on  08/19  at  11:37 AM

Why haven’t the creators of Vampire High (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0280347/) sued this woman for plagiarism?

Comment #50: JPlum  on  08/19  at  11:51 AM

The popularity of “Twilight” *is* a failure of feminism, but not the failure that this Leonard guy thinks it is.

The problem isn’t that teen girls have been presented with a wide array of images of strong, self-actualized women in healthy relationships to choose from, and are instead choosing the totally fucked up teen girl with stalker vampire. The problem is that feminism has *not* yet been successful at presenting teen girls with such an array of images, so they are bombarded, constantly, with images that tell them it’s sexy to be powerless in the arms of a stronger, older, hot guy who totally loves you. This appeals to teen girls as a fantasy because teens, in general, are much more used to and okay with being powerless than adults are (not that they *like* it, but since our society gives teens very little power, and very little responsibility, they don’t end up in situations where they have a responsibility but not the power to carry it through nearly as often as adults do, and they don’t resent being treated like children nearly as much as people who are actually *not* children do.) And because teen girls think that the love they feel today will never die. And because they haven’t learned yet about how people who love you betray you, in small or large ways, all the time.

Older women are more likely to have discovered that the possessive jealousy was totally hot until the boyfriend broke their nose for talking to a male friend. They are more likely to have learned that romantic self-sacrifice for the guy they love stopped being hot as soon as he started taking them totally for granted. They have learned that being forced to have sex isn’t an exciting, sexy way to not take responsibility for being a dirty slut, it is a degrading violation of their personhood. They have learned that when you fantasize about a man you can’t control, he’s still in your control because he’s your fantasy, but when he’s real, you *actually* can’t control him and he may do things that really bother or hurt you.

So teen girls are much more susceptible than adult women to the social tropes that tell us that rape is hot and sexy, that stalking is romantic, that giving up all your dreams for your dream man will be worth it. They haven’t learned the hard way that all this stuff is bullshit.

The triumph of feminism here isn’t that “Twilight” still exists for teen girls, but that it *doesn’t* exist for adult women. Romance novels for *adults* used to be all about the romantic stalking. (This shit does still exist in movies, but it appears in romantic comedies, which are aimed at both sexes, more than in actual chick flicks.) of course, the popularity of “Twilight” says we still have a long way to go and much more work to do, but it doesn’t say we’ve *failed*—it says we haven’t come far enough yet.

Comment #51: Alara Rogers  on  08/19  at  11:59 AM

“Buffy” had a scene with the watching-her-sleep thing.  It’s pretty standard vampire stuff.

But it wasn’t portrayed as romantic.

As I recall, it was after Angel turned bad.  Buffy wakes to find a picture he had drawn of her sleeping next to her bed.

It creeped her out and started a search for a spell that would keep him out of the house.

Comment #52: Suz  on  08/19  at  12:18 PM

Alara Rogers ~

Not to break your thesis on this issue or anything, but…

An unfortunately *huge* percentage of the “Twilight” fandom is actually made up of adult women, many of whom call themselves “Twilight Moms.” They were in spectacularly batshit form a couple weeks back at San Diego ComicCon, where they basically took over the “Twilight” panel and freaked the Hell out of the actor playing Edward Cullen in the movie based on these books. (Robert Pattinson, I think is his name—he played Cedric Diggory in the “Goblet of Fire” movie and probably thought he knew from insane fans as a result of that experience. More the fool he, as it turned out…) The susceptibility to the “romance” of relationships that are intrinsically abusive and extremely unhealthy isn’t limited to the teenage set as far as this series is concerned.

Comment #53: Myranda  on  08/19  at  12:26 PM

It might amuse y’all to know that her new series for adults has similar themes.  The first (of reportedly up to three when she gets around to writing the rest) is called “The Host”, and it is about a human race that has been completely conquered by a race of supremely intelligent bodysnatcher parasites (who call themselves “souls”) who walk around in the bodies of their victims, using their memories and living their lives. 

“Wild” humans that have not been so infected are hunted down and “ensouled.”  The main perspective character is that of a “soul” who has been given the body of a young female resistance fighter who was trapped and attempted to commit suicide rather than be bodysnatched.  This young woman continues to resist her “soul” even though she has no physical control over her body.  The “soul” must decide whether she’s going to come to an accommodation with her host, or “discard” (ie kill) the body she’s in and take another…

Comment #54: Mandos  on  08/19  at  01:24 PM

Myranda, you’re seeing a skew in who has the money and freedom to go to cons. How many teen girls have the money and resources to go attend a con in another state? I sure didn’t when I was a teen.

I’m not shocked that there are adult women who are reading this (although the only one I know is *well aware* of the squickiness of the romance, and really only got into it because she’d been a fan of the actor who played Cedric Diggory in Harry Potter, and he plays Edward in the movie), but I don’t think that’s who catapulted Stephanie Meyer to fame in the first place.

Comment #55: Alara Rogers  on  08/19  at  01:32 PM

I suspect that the sociopathy is a large part of the adolescent appeal of vampires. If you hate everyone and everything around you, maybe it’s appealing to fantasize about having an predator-prey relationship with the people around you (with you on the top of the food chain, of course) instead of having to deal with a bunch of messed-up person-to-person relationships. Plus, if you’re an angsty adolescent, why wouldn’t you want to steal men’s souls and make them your slaves?

I’d also add that part of the appeal is that most people aren’t sociopaths, and can’t act like that even if they want to.  I remember being terribly hurt all the time as a teenager, right around the vampire novel phase, and trying really hard to tell myself that I would just have to develop a cold, hard shell so that I could never trust anyone or fall for anything or need any sort of human contact or support ever.  That I should see everyone else around me as, maybe not prey, but not really my concern.  I should concentrate on what I needed to get by and never let anyone or anything get to me.  Luckily this didn’t last very long—now that I think back on it it’s amazing both how closely my goth phase and my “cold, cruel, emotionless, and tough” phase correlated, and how quickly they both vaporized when I transferred into a school that didn’t resemble one of the lower circles of hell.  I literally remember putting on that black velvet dress and combat boots one morning, looking down, and thinking, “hmmm, this is really boring…”

I also think this same impulse is behind teenage infatuations with libertarianism and Ayn Rand.

Comment #56: The Opoponax  on  08/19  at  02:51 PM

Alara ~

Actually, my personal thought on this matter is that “Twilight”—much like Harry Potter—is the sort of fandom that started young and transitioned older as the books picked up more word-of-mouth buzz from daughters to their moms, and the adult willingness to aid/abet/and indulge in this series despite its many squickworthy qualities helped drive it to the level of popularity it’s achieved. Not a criticism or an argument with any of your points, just an observation from the Fanthropological perspective.

Comment #57: Myranda  on  08/19  at  02:59 PM

Amanda,
Awesome post. That is all.

Comment #58: jason  on  08/19  at  03:39 PM

Man, what’s going to happen when these guys re-discover John Norman’s Gor series?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gor

Comment #59: cynickal  on  08/19  at  03:57 PM

cynickal: Hopefully some of them will then real some good BDSM stuff and get an idea how to properly conceptualize and form dom/sub relationships in a context of healthy adult power sharing and sexuality?  And the rest, eh… there’s no shortage of crazy people.

Comment #60: NBarnes  on  08/19  at  04:26 PM

This talk of “Twilight Moms” really squicks me out. I am repulsed at the possibility of joining into the fandom of my children’s young-adult-literature reading. I’m all for encouraging and nurturing the interests of one’s children and becoming familiar with what they’re involved in, but there’s something pathetic about parents who latch on to the interests of their children—and becoming active members of the fandom—rather than developing their own.

Comment #61: Tyro  on  08/19  at  04:33 PM

Today zombies are filling that ecological niche.

Not quite identical. Zombies are violent destroyers, and do end up destroying that which you loved, but it’s more incidental. A force of nature.

While just as destructive and uncaring, it’s a different sort. It’s the difference between the unfeeling destruction of a tornado, and the unfeeling destruction of a Death Squad.

One is, ultimately, a fear of the inevitability of death, a force that comes for everyone, and the other is more a body horror “it looks normal maybe acts normal but something is waiting to strike”

Comment #62: karpad  on  08/19  at  05:29 PM

The Opoponax—well said. It’s rather touching that the vast majority of people do indeed grow out of their incipient-sociopath stage. Rousseau Was Right, indeed.

My favorite bit was “imprinting”, where the werewolves will have a stalking-at-first-sight relationship with someone. We’re assured that when they imprint on children, they become super lovey-dovey step-parents. So Quil, a werewolf, imprints on a toddler, and is rapturously playing peekaboo with her.

Whoever the viewpoint character is for “Breaking Dawn”‘s eighth chapter comments, “Though I did think it sucked that he had a good fourteen years of monk-i-tude ahead of him until Claire was his age—for Quil, at least, it was a good thing werewolves didn’t get older.” So Quil is going to be her father figure until she turns sixteen, whereupon there will be a very awkward conversation.

I think this passes through blithely-misogynist and sails right on into OH JOHN RINGO NO territory.

Comment #63: grendelkhan  on  08/19  at  05:48 PM

Tyro—you must have some rather strong thoughts on the Harry Potter fandom, then, yes? You have some smack to talk about the Shoebox Project, perhaps?

And besides, if I took your advice, I’d have missed out on His Dark Materials. And Invader Zim, for that matter.

Comment #64: grendelkhan  on  08/19  at  05:54 PM

Amanda-

This post was very insightful.  I had never thought of the vampire romance fantasies in the way you describe, but immediately upon reading your take, several things clicked nicely into place in my brain.  As a woman who grew up in a community of uber-conservative religious people (yes, I *am* scarred for life), I always found the vampire fantasy to be very, very compelling.  This makes so much more sense to me now.

Comment #65: zha  on  08/19  at  06:31 PM

I agree with the poster above who mentioned Sunshine.  McKinley did an awesome job portraying the sort of vampire people really *wouldn’t* want to be, in a unique way.  I also eagerly await a sequel.

Just want to be sure…HBO is starting a series called Twilight, but I think that is based on the Sookie Stackhouse series.  There are quite a few series called Twilight, people.

Comment #66: shah8  on  08/19  at  06:32 PM

Quite telling that Sax thinks of the females as “girls” and the males as “men”. Shorter every pop-evo-psych anti-feminist: Hot teenage girls who don’t want to fuck me are spitting in the face of Destiny!

Also funny that he can’t even bring himself to lie really hard about his research. “Most” of the teenage girls he’s creeped on have told him that they want specifically gendered books? Sure they have.

Comment #67: mythago  on  08/19  at  06:48 PM

‘Twilight’ Sucks… And Not In A Good Way

Apologists flood the comments over there, naturally.

Comment #68: annejumps  on  08/19  at  06:57 PM

I had the weirdest deja vu while reading this article. I thought it was something that I had read before. A woman - vampire - werewolf triangle? Its the Anita Blake series all over (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Blake:_Vampire_Hunter). Or maybe its the Sookie Stackhouse books (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sookie_Stackhouse). Maybe a hint of Tanya Huff’s Blood books in there as well…

It’s not a niche, its an industry (Except all of those have strong female leads. Now I have to wonder if I read those because I have good taste, or weather I’m turned on by strong women with guns…)

Comment #69: Clathrate  on  08/19  at  07:17 PM

“Alara Rogers” has totally hit the nail on the head with her comments. I agree 100%

Comment #70: jamesf  on  08/19  at  07:21 PM

Sunshine was indeed awesome. Vampires, baking, and a main character who is unapologetic about sex! McKinley has said that she’s planning another book set in that world, but with different characters, so not a sequel precisely—more like the relationship between The Blue Sword and Deerskin than The Blue Sword and The Hero and the Crown.

Comment #71: JM  on  08/19  at  08:29 PM

More love for Sunshine.  Interestingly, McKinley’s vampires can bite but they cannot rape - like with houses, they have to be “invited in” as it were.  The heroine/narrator points out that this is part of what fuels the teenage girls’ fascination, before they grow up and realize that vampires = dangerous, disgusting monsters.

Comment #72: Lee  on  08/19  at  08:43 PM

Black and blue?  Jesus.  It may be a choice to keep a baby that breaks your ribs from inside, but “losing control” is just…well, justifying and glamorizing abuse.

I loved Mercedes Lackey as a teenager—definitely much with the angst (which I think is why rape = instant angst is a big theme in teenage girl-written fanfiction).  Her non-Valdemar books are still kind of comfort reading for me (I think Valdemar came from a teenage place in her psyche, which doesn’t appeal to me anymore).  Anyway, I’d rather teenage girls read Lackey than Twilight.

Sunshine was a fabulous book.

I don’t think all versions of vampires are a metaphor for rape (even in Dracula), some of the scenes were metaphors for taboo (oral, extra-marital, etc.) sex of a mostly-consensual nature.  More in common with BDSM fantasies of loss of control making “taboo” okay than rape, I think.  But it’s not like vampires are real—there are plenty of takes on them.

I don’t think it’s creepy for adults to enjoy YA fiction (I do, and it’s often more adventurous and thought-provoking than a lot of adult fiction), or participate in YA fiction fandoms (I do, although online and with other adults).  I think what’s creepy is adults trying to participate like the teenagers and children do, co-opting their events and acting like they come to the books the same way.  They don’t—they come to them as adults with adult experiences and viewpoints.

Comment #73: Mel  on  08/19  at  10:14 PM

Funny that the most indoctrinated of us - our children - would think something as ‘unusual’ as gendered to the core.  Where would they have ever gotten that?  Certainly not the Pink Aisle, oh no.

Comment #74: Crissa  on  08/20  at  02:18 AM

I really liked Anne Rice’s vampires when I was a teenager, and I actually think they helped redefine gender roles for me.  I found it interesting that the vampires would form profound romantic relationships with one another, but gender was never an issue, as they were all seemingly bisexual. There was also not the creepy rape metaphor involved with sucking blood, and men were just as likely to be victims as women were.  In the first novel of the series, it is stated that Lestat, Rice’s main vampire, preferred the blood of young men.  I think the main allure was that Rice’s vampires were incredibly sensual yet unable to have sexual intercourse, and they simply spoke to my teenage sexual urges.  Looking back I realize that several of my friends that grew up in very conservative households really gravitated towards vampire mythology.

Comment #75: Darcy  on  08/20  at  05:11 AM

Re: Mandos, about “The Host”:

Interesting choice of words there. Usually if you have intangible supernatural bodysnatchers, they are called “demons”, not “souls”. (Though what the description most reminds me of is a scene in “Lord of Light”, where a point is made that their demon-like entities are not supernatural.)

Tyro: but there’s something pathetic about parents who latch on to the interests of their children—and becoming active members of the fandom—rather than developing their own.

Usually, a 40 yo HP fan will see something completely different in the series than a 14 yo one. Fandom occasionally brings them together, because on the internet no one knows you’re a dog unless you’re barking, and there’s no reason that 14yo cannot be interested in, say, the construction of British magical society as a Roman patronage system, or that 40yo cannot squee anymore. It has long been considered a marker of quality in children’s literature if adults can enjoy it, too. (Also, it’s rarely 14yos organizing cons, speaking at panels and all that.)

From what I read about the book, I would shelf “Twilight” under “Romance” and not under “YA”, though.

Comment #76: inge  on  08/20  at  10:35 AM

Mel and inge, you both make good points about the ability to approach the fandom differently. But Twilight and HP have a certain “Mary Sue” quality (moreso in Twilight from what people are saying) that is perfectly fine to draw you to it as a teen but squicks me out when adults enjoy it for the same reasons.

Comment #77: Tyro  on  08/20  at  04:27 PM

She also didn’t research any vampire mythology or poplar culture trends.  She wanted to remake vampire mythology without learning any of it.

I think someone finally pointed this out to her because in the final book (which I choked down because I wanted to know what all the fuss was about), one of the characters helpfully points out that Jacob et al are not actually werewolves, but shapechangers - something I said the minute the “werewolf” subplot was introduced. Doh!

Comment #78: Bluestocking  on  08/24  at  01:30 PM

Y’know, I find a lot of critique of Twilight throws the context of the characters out of the window in favor of argument.

One must keep in mind the supernatural factors that inform all the characters of Twilight in order to judge them effectively.

Apparently, this Sax this Twilight was created whole cloth and in a vacuum.

Comment #79: Roxie  on  08/24  at  11:10 PM
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