Login

Register

Member List

RSS Feed

Amanda | Contact

Auguste | Contact

Jesse | Contact

Pam | Contact

Next entry: Please Stop Saying Stupid Things.  Love, America Previous entry: Of course it was

Vengeance Is A Dish Best Served Lukewarm

imageDavid Broder is afraid of terrorism prosecutions because of the INSANE MEGA VENGEANCE that’s motivating the whole shebang

But now Obama is being lobbied by politicians and voters who want something more—the humiliation and/or punishment of those responsible for the policies of the past. They are looking for individual scalps—or, at least, careers and reputations.

Their argument is that without identifying and punishing the perpetrators, there can be no accountability—and therefore no deterrent lesson for future administrations. It is a plausible-sounding rationale, but it cloaks an unworthy desire for vengeance.

Broder demonstrates just how worthy this is by pointing out other times that people were mad about things, and how proposed solutions to those instance of outrage were bad ideas, because nothing says “I really thought about this” like convenient and inapplicable analogies.  But really, the reason that this is vengeance, and such a terrible idea, is that the Bush administration followed the time-honored tradition of breaking the law in a way that was proper and well-considered, which is why we let people off for highly contrived multi-hour bank heists - after all, they discussed them at length.

But having vowed to end the practices, Obama should use all the influence of his office to stop the retroactive search for scapegoats.

This is not another Sept. 11 situation, when nearly 3,000 Americans were killed. We had to investigate the flawed performances and gaps in the system and make the necessary repairs to reduce the chances of a deadly repetition.

The memos on torture represented a deliberate, and internally well-debated, policy decision, made in the proper places—the White House, the intelligence agencies and the Justice Department—by the proper officials.

Well, that assuages my need to yell at the heavens in a bloodthirsty rage.  After all, if the people who committed a crime debated the crime among the people who were going to commit the crime at length, really, no crime was committed at all.  It’s like they actually did society a favor; after all, we can always stop torturing people, but we’ll never get the chance back for respectful, considered debate. 

Ergo, when I call David Broder a dickfaced soulless fuckhead shilling for the worst of “proper” society’s instincts, I do so after having consulted with literally dozens of people, having debated for hours the extent and nature of his fuckheadery as a policy matter.  Fucking cockbag asshole.  (This is all okay, right?  Internally well-debated!)

 

------

Registration is now required! We're still in the process of getting it all squared away, so for the moment don't forget to Login or Register using the links in the upper left menu before starting to write your comment.

Posted by Jesse Taylor on 08:06 AM • (21) Comments

the humiliation and/or punishment of those responsible for the policies of the past. They are looking for individual scalps—or, at least, careers and reputations.

Their argument is that without identifying and punishing the perpetrators, there can be no accountability—and therefore no deterrent lesson for future administrations.

Yes.  Because we are a land of laws, and what these people did was not only inhumane but endangered our soldiers and increased the odds of future attacks.

It is a plausible-sounding rationale, but it cloaks an unworthy desire for vengeance.

Dickface.  Wanting justice for war crimes is not unworthy in the slightest.  And as pardonning Nixon showed, if you just try “to heal” the nation by avoiding prosecutions, the motherfuckers come back with a thirst for worst.

Put them in jail.  Hand them over to the Hague.  Make it clear that lawlessness, even if gussied up with opinions from lawyers asked to justify it, is completely unacceptable.

Why the fuck can’t these people understand that this is not a game?  People have been tortured.  People have been killed.  It’s completely different from discovering a blow job while looking for financial improprieties.

And they DID impeach Clinton for the blow job and for perjury about the blow job.  And we have not fully investigated 9-11 nor fixed our security issues that led to it.  Hacked electrical grid anyone?

I’m not very hopeful that Barry is going to do the right thing.  My hopes now rest on a second term Hussein, with universal healthcare (not health insurance) and a slowly recovering economy under his belt, letting the dogs loose on Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, and Rice.  I’m not very hopeful about that either, but it that delusion helps me with a bit of denial about the fact that these people are getting away with murder and worse.

They really do think anything goes if you’re a Republican and that nothing should be allowed if it comes from a Democrat.  IT’S NOT A GAME.  It’s not Bears vs. Packers.  It’s not even a Subway World Series pitting the “Lovable Losers” Cubs against the “We didn’t let a whole century go between titles” White Sox.  The outcome actually MATTERS, not who proposed it or what team they play for.

Comment #1: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  04/26  at  08:59 AM

When I watched all four hours of the amazing BBC documentary The Century Of The Self (it’s available for free on Google video), I realized the psychology, or perhaps the psychosis, of this kind of thinking. It’s all based on the point of view that there is an elite, smarter part of society that needs to be in charge and make all the decisions for the Great Unwashed. (That would be you, you, you and me. Although where that line is drawn is quite an interesting question - is it level of education, income, where you went to school, who you know???) The Great Ones scoff at the idea that they have any responsibility to the general public, other than to tell us what to feel, think and do. They only need to control us (through palliatives like mass merchandising and consumerism) so that they can maintain their exclusive lifestyles. They’re not interested in our welfare. They pander to us to get votes so as to maintain their power, but forget us immediately post-election. Remember what Darth Cheney said about not caring what Americans think about Iraq?

If decisions are made by these great wizards of society, in their thickly carpeted vaunted board rooms and gilded halls, then the decisions are sound, of course. And if the Great Unwashed rise up and ask a question or two, they are smacked down as quickly as possible.

The only thing that’s humorous in this whole sordid scenario, is to watch people arbitrarily decide that they are part of that great elite, and you, a peasant, are not. That’s when you know who the real fools are.

Comment #2: omyword  on  04/26  at  09:27 AM

“The memos on torture represented a deliberate, and internally well-debated, policy decision, made in the proper places—the White House, the intelligence agencies and the Justice Department—by the proper officials.”

...um, okay.  Mr. Broder, pardon me for interrupting, but these large, white-coated gentlemen have come to take you to your new home, where you’ll have all the time you need to develop a spirit of bipartisanism between the patients and the staff, to ensure you live out the rest of your years in a peaceful and democratic institution devoted to your mental health…

Comment #3: MikeEss  on  04/26  at  11:34 AM

Aw, man!  Too bad the guys at Neuremburg didn’t know about The Broder Caveat.  Nobody plans things out like Germans - they’d have walked with no problem.

Comment #4: LittlePig  on  04/26  at  11:36 AM

The line that really got me is: “The retroactive search for scapegoats”. Scapegoats? Scapegoats??

Since when did Perps become “scapegoats”? I mean, Broder makes it sounds like even attempting to catch criminals and try them for their crimes is unfair and mean.

The older I get, the more it makes me LIVID, the difference between the punishment of the Poor and punishment for the Wealthy. We live in a time where a poor person may spend their life, THEIR LIFE, in jail for having a controlled substance, and the murderers of millions, and the plunderers of trillions, walk free and respected.

Comment #5: KMTBERRY  on  04/26  at  11:48 AM

Jesse:

Yeah, it’s okay.  But I think you forgot “assmunch.”

Comment #6: Magis  on  04/26  at  11:54 AM

You missed the dickheadedest line of all:

Suppose the investigators decide that the country does not want to see the former president and vice president in the dock.

Um, that’s not what investigators do, pinhead.

Comment #7: RickMassimo  on  04/26  at  12:13 PM

I think we’re seeing something much bigger. Mainly the gap in our justice system has been allowed to grow so large and lopsided that the “upper echelons” literally believe that by virtue of birth they are too good to ever have the justice system touch their benighted selves. The law is a tool to put down the poor and the uppity brown folk in their eyes and never turn and bite the master.

I think the torture “debate” might really be the upper class cracking at the thought that we might be thinking about applying the law to rich people as well as poor people, “connected” people as well as some schlub on the street.

And this is freaking them the fuck out.

Comment #8: Cerberus  on  04/26  at  12:17 PM

Suppose the investigators decide that the country does not want to see the former president and vice president in the dock.

Yet another example of Villager types revealing more about themselves than about the supposed subjects of their writing. Apparently in Broder’s mind, the very same people will not only investigate the evidence, they will also try the crimes, and also carry out the sentences too! In addition, they will do this according to “what the country wants”, rather than according to, you know, the Laws?

Comment #9: atheist  on  04/26  at  01:14 PM

Kind of a scary peek into the mind of David Broder, and his view of the world.

Comment #10: atheist  on  04/26  at  01:15 PM

If you support prosecution, the Decepticons win.

Comment #11: Linnaeus  on  04/26  at  01:29 PM

The memos on torture represented a deliberate, and internally well-debated, policy decision, made in the proper places—the White House, the intelligence agencies and the Justice Department—by the proper officials.

Hey, the proper officials debated the policies during the Spanish Inquisition too.  Why are you questioning tried-and-true strategies to get to the truth, Jesse??

Comment #12: DonnaDiva  on  04/26  at  03:04 PM

Shorter beltway:

Stop all government over blowjob, spend countless tens off millions to interview even people who did the suspects drapes, seek to impeach and imprison president: good.

Seek to prosecute people who lied to get country into war and breached american and international law with invasion, kidnapping, torture and murder: bad.

Best take on it today:  Glenn Greenwald.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/26/broder/index.html

Comment #13: seeker6079  on  04/26  at  03:15 PM

He wrong.  Mine is a worthy desire for vengeance.

Enjoy.

Comment #14: The Tim Channel  on  04/26  at  05:21 PM

“People who were directly responsible” = “scapegoat.”

Hokay, somebody get Broder-boy his pills.

Comment #16: Dan  on  04/26  at  09:19 PM

I think that whenever these douches mention “Sept. 11th” in the future we should consider it their version of Godwin’s Law.

Comment #17: Danica Lefse Queen  on  04/26  at  09:36 PM

Leave it to Broder to be both counterfactual and intensely immoral at the same time. In the past 20 years, thanks to people like him, we’ve gone from a nation where “Taxes are for little people” has gone from a byword for arrogant criminality to an accepted economic mantra. And now laws forbidding torture and murder are for little people too. (Note that he doesn’t go so far as suggesting that there be any compensation for the people who have already gone to prison for following Bush, Cheney and Yoo’s pronouncements.)

Comment #18: paul  on  04/26  at  09:53 PM

Oh hey! Starscream!

Comment #19: Kyra  on  04/27  at  01:09 AM

The memos on torture represented a deliberate, and internally well-debated, policy decision, made in the proper places—the White House, the intelligence agencies and the Justice Department—by the proper officials.

But doesn’t that just make it WORSE, Broder? They didn’t just accidentally maybe kinda sorta torture someone without thinking about it, they sat down and premeditated it. It goes all the way to the top. This does not, to me, seem like mitigating circumstances, you assmunch (thanks for the term, Magis :D), it seems like the difference between manslaughter and first degree murder.

And you think we should just go “la dee da, they did it in offices while wearing suits, it must be okay”? Get real.

Comment #20: Nenya  on  04/27  at  08:31 AM

I would much rather that the loopholes teased out to justify it be plugged rather than spend a lot of effort, expense and attention on prosecutions over whether or not the loopholes existed.  But if the loopholes aren’t patched then prosecutions would have an effect of keeping the issue before the public so they can be plugged.

Comment #21: MiddleageLiberal  on  04/28  at  04:56 PM
Page 1 of 1 pages
Commenting is not available in this channel entry.