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Next entry: It’s okay to admit that mass hysteria is real Previous entry: Why is women’s sexuality so scary?

We Need Vaginal Ultrasounds So That Mothers Can Remember What Pregnancy Was Like

In the annals of justifying Virginia's rape-through-ultrasound, many remarkably stupid things have been said; chief among them is, "Hey, let's force women to be vaginally penetrated in order to show them that they're pregnant...even though they already know."

A strong second, however, is that women deserve to be penetrated because they were penetrated before. This follows a longstanding American tradition of extrapolating indefinite consent from any previous voluntary touching. It is, of course, no longer assault to repeatedly stab a person with a needle once they have a tattoo, or to throw rocks at someone once they receive a hot stone massage. 

Dana Loesch ("She Who Would Urinate On Corpses") has been a wholehearted advocate of this position since the uproar happened, but she goes one step further through the use of statistics: you deserve to have a giant probe shoved inside you even if you've already had a child and therefore know exactly what happens when you get pregnant.

Furthermore, the greatest number of abortions are obtained by women who already have a child/children, so they know how anatomy and physiology works. A lack of planning on the woman’s part doesn’t constitute a mandate for legalized (and in the case of Planned Parenthood, publicly-funded) murder.

If you "know how anatomy and physiology work", then the entire pretense for the ultrasound is meaningless.  As in Texas, the theoretical point is to show you the heartbeat of the fetus, guilting you out of the abortion by requiring you to contemplate that one day, that fetus will become a child. However, if you already have a child, you know exactly how pregnancy works, how a child develops, what it's like to birth and raise a child.

If that's the case for the majority of women, as Loesch states, then the only cognizable purpose for the ultrasound requirement is to shove something inside a woman against her will because she had sex once. A thanks to her, at least, for making the case as simply and elegantly as possible. 

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Posted by Jesse Taylor on 09:30 AM • (31) Comments

Having been pregnant made me MORE pro-choice, if possible.

No one should be forced to gestate.  Your body will NEVER be the same, even with an easy birth.  Never mind the reality of a CHILD. 

This law makes me ill.  Women’s health care is health care.  No one should be allowed to opt out because of their “conscience” nor should any roadblocks be put in the way.  Medical decisions should be made by patients and their doctors ONLY.

The terrorism needs to stop.  That includes the sodomy endorsed by Loesch.  “Lack of planning” is no excuse for rape.

Comment #1: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  02/20  at  10:32 AM

Dana Loesch really is about as vile as they come. I often wonder what happened to such people in their youth that made them so hateful towards other people. Also, it amazes me at the casual misogyny of people who think that women need to be advised about the fact that their pregnant and that, sans abortion, they would have a child, because obviously women are barely sentient incubators, incapable of understanding basic biology, like pregnancy.

Comment #2: progrocker  on  02/20  at  10:33 AM

Idle, semi-related curiosity, here; anyone else get an ad asking them to sign a petition to reverse Roe right below this entry?

Comment #3: Sherm  on  02/20  at  10:48 AM

“I often wonder what happened to such people in their youth that made them so hateful towards other people.”

It seems pretty clear that borderline sociopathic types are naturally attracted to the “conservative” side of the political spectrum.  It’s all selfishness and obedience to authority no matter how many are hurt as a result.  Empathy is rare (and discouraged) while sympathy is seen as a weakness, and among Randites an actual sin.

So in the case of someone like Loesch, she can’t (or won’t) allow herself to understand what that unknown, anonymous, abortion-seeking woman is going through, and therefore concludes “the slut deserves anything done to her because she’s a slut”.  She is simply not able to imagine what it would be like to be caught in a trap by biological processes you are unable to control, to be held captive by your own body, to see your desired future collapsing because of random chance, to be in a financial or emotional situation where adding one more child might be the breaking point.  Loesch and her ilk have so “othered” these women that they are no longer even considered human, if they were ever even given such consideration.

It’s beyond merely sick, and into the territory of pathological…

Comment #4: MikeEss  on  02/20  at  11:47 AM

The argument is so illogical she can’t be posing it seriously. She just wants to sound incendiary or something and we can test it by calling her bluff, applying her argument to herself. There’s no way she will say she’s open to everyone anytime just because she once didn’t have a problem letting her husband penetrate her.

Comment #5: Baruk  on  02/20  at  11:50 AM

“It is, of course, no longer assault to repeatedly stab a person with a needle once they have a tattoo.”
Best. Analogy. Ever.

Comment #6: DataSnake  on  02/20  at  11:52 AM

That lawmaker in Oklahoma had the right idea.  Democrats should start adding riders to bills that affect the things that Republicans want.  You want to purchase a gun? Sure, right after you’ve had a rectal examination.  I’m sure there are many other potential uses for this.

Comment #7: LBG  on  02/20  at  12:23 PM

I’m with digby on this issue: a nonconsent probe is nothing more than the state showing the slut who’s <i>boss</b>.

Comment #8: judybrowni  on  02/20  at  01:33 PM

Am I living in a parallel world where non-vaginal ultrasounds don’t exist?  I’m pretty sure I remember having several. 

Which is not to say that I think women should be forced to have ANY kind of ultrasound before they get their abortion, just that the creepy we-want-to-violate-sluts aspect of this law is pretty obvious when you consider the very obvious fact that you can detect the fetal heart beat using at least two less invasive methods that I can think of.

Comment #9: Katherine  on  02/20  at  01:34 PM

My friend Diane, although a Catholic, had the same pro-choice conversion after having a child.

She saw the hard work, determination and love that went into child rearing for good parents, and for the child’s sake, didn’t want a baby forced on parents who weren’t ready, able or willing to go that distance.

Comment #10: judybrowni  on  02/20  at  01:38 PM

I described this transvaginal ultrasound requirement to my against-abortion Christian girlfriend.

She didn’t believe me.

I persuaded her that, yes, that’s what Republicans in some of the States wanted, and she looked shocked and said that it was just wrong.

Comment #11: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  02/20  at  01:43 PM

Florida is a state in which non-vaginal ultrasounds have been legislated for those seeking abortions.

However, for early abortions there’s apparently not a lot to see, or guilt the woman with.

In addition to being bodily invasive, the probe supposedly gives a better view of the embryo, all the better to “inform” the unwilling mama.

Comment #12: judybrowni  on  02/20  at  01:48 PM

@Comment #3: Sherm on 02/20 at 10:48 AM

Idle, semi-related curiosity, here; anyone else get an ad asking them to sign a petition to reverse Roe right below this entry?

Not at the moment, but I do get those all the time here. I think it’s just some kinda advertising program that’s based on the words found on the page.

Comment #13: atheist  on  02/20  at  01:52 PM

According to the Guttmacher Institute, 88 percent of abortions occur during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. Because the fetus is so small at this stage, traditional ultrasounds performed through the abdominal wall, “jelly on the belly,” often cannot produce a clear image. Therefore, a transvaginal probe is most often necessary, especially up to 10 weeks to 12 weeks of pregnancy. The probe is inserted into the vagina, sending sound waves to reflect off body structures to produce an image of the fetus. Under this new law, a woman’s vagina will be penetrated without an opportunity for her to refuse due to coercion from the so-called “public servants” who passed and signed this bill into law.

http://www.truth-out.org/state-sanctioned-rape-trans-vaginal-ultrasound-laws-virginia-texas-and-iowa/1329416707

Comment #14: judybrowni  on  02/20  at  01:53 PM

I read that somebody did a study showing women ultrasounds before an abortion.  Not one changed her mind.  I think someone forced to view an early ultrasound might think “that’s all?  I thought it would look more like a baby”.  I think these prolifers see all these pictures of late-pregnancy sonograms, and think that’s what a 4-week fetus looks like, and it just doesn’t.

Comment #15: gretchen  on  02/20  at  02:01 PM

@Comment #8: judybrowni on 02/20 at 12:33 PM

I’m with digby on this issue: a nonconsent probe is nothing more than the state showing the slut who’s <i>boss</b>.

It’s impossible to miss that part.

To me there’s also a “sending a message” component to the procedure. A brutal, nasty message of blame.

Comment #16: atheist  on  02/20  at  02:12 PM

I think I read an article where someone pushing this said something to the effect of, “She already agreed to be penetrated when she had sex and got pregnant, so what’s the big deal?”

Uh, the big deal is that she, you know, AGREED before. Personally I’d like to have some say in what’s inserted into my vagina. Because it’s my goddamn vagina.

Comment #17: coldestcaress  on  02/20  at  02:59 PM

“Personally I’d like to have some say in what’s inserted into my vagina. Because it’s my goddamn vagina.”

...the celibate Brahmans of the Catholic Church and their sex-obsessed pals in the political and religious Reichwing of America beg to differ.  You see, Jesus apparently told each and every one of them, personally, that vaginas and their attached uteri are not the property of the wanton sluts whose bodies they merely occupy. 

No, your dirty-parts belong to God, and that means The Anointed Caretakers of God’s flock have every right, and indeed the solemn duty, to completely control you and what you do with God’s reproductive organs.  It says so, right there in The Bible, if you’re properly trained to see it and understand it, which you most certainly are not (no woman is). 

The sooner all American women accept their fate, the sooner they (at least the white ones) and their husbands can get down to the serious business of outbreeding those dusky hoards that pollute the rest of God’s planet.  Think of Michelle Duggar as your ideal…

(...if I go any further with this, someone will think I’m serious, so I gotta stop here…)

Comment #18: MikeEss  on  02/20  at  03:44 PM

No, your dirty-parts belong to God, and that means The Anointed Caretakers of God’s flock have every right, and indeed the solemn duty, to completely control you and what you do with God’s reproductive organs.  It says so, right there in The Bible, if you’re properly trained to see it and understand it, which you most certainly are not (no woman is).

For example, the story of Susanna and the Elders, where a lying slut got two upright conservative men into trouble.

Comment #19: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  02/20  at  04:20 PM

As a relatively young woman, Loesch makes me contemplate that the worst scum are not the oppressors but the collaborators.

Comment #20: typist  on  02/20  at  04:28 PM

“I often wonder what happened to such people in their youth that made them so hateful towards other people.”

In Loesch’s specific case, it actually appears to be that in her youth she fell in love with and married an uber-conservative who by her own admission turned her from her previously liberal ways. She has all but admitted that she’s one of those “I used to be a liberal, but after 9/11, I’m outraged by Chappaquidick” conservatives. (Apologies to whomever coined that phrase.) There was a pretty detailed article about her in a local newspaper that does a pretty good job laying out the basis for her current brand of conservatism:

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2010-02-24/news/dana-loesch-cofounder-st-louis-tea-party-conservative-talk-radio-host/

As someone who regrettably shares a zip code with this vile woman, I’ve been exposed to far more than my fair share of her nonsense. Among other things, the fact that she went from local talk-radio diva to national prominence of any kind displays the utter lack of meritocracy involved in the media at this juncture. That this know-nothing hurler of intellectual feces can not only be taken seriously by anyone, much less be hired by a once well-respected national cable news network, pretty much obliterates any hope I may have once retained about the possibility of extricating ourselves from the cesspool our national discourse has become.

Comment #21: Epsilon82  on  02/20  at  04:33 PM

I guess asking the UN to send a force to Virginia to prevent war crimes would be a tactical error…

Comment #22: paul  on  02/20  at  04:33 PM

“that’s all?  I thought it would look more like a baby”.

I had a “jelly on the belly” ultrasound at 8 weeks with my first. There was a beating heart, but the rest of it looked like a bean. Of course, because this was a wanted pregnancy, we were blown away and all emotional and what not.

Fast forward four years, and I have the pregnancy book out to show my son what the fetus that would become his baby sister looked like around 12 weeks or so. “That’s the baby?” he asked, incredulously. “Why does it look like a squishy alien?”

Point being, there’s only so “clear” an ultrasound before 12 weeks can get because there’s only so much “there” there. The transvaginal ultrasounds are “clearer” in the sense that if you’re trying to diagnose specific medical problems, you can get a better view/measurements of those things, but it’s not going to look that much more like a baby - cause it just doesn’t look that much like a baby.

Comment #23: chingona  on  02/20  at  04:39 PM

Every time I see DL’s face or hear her speak, Burt Lancaster’s line from The Sweet Smell of Success comes to mind:

“I’d hate to take a bite out of you.  You’re a cookie full of arsenic.”

Comment #24: Smartpatrol  on  02/20  at  05:11 PM

The odd thing is I had two of these before and after my termination in MD. Even then it didn’t give the technicians any better of a picture. I probably spent 10 minutes both times with them trying to get a clear shot and then having to go back because it wasn’t good enough.

I never had to look at either image or hear a lecture about it being a real live baby but yea, the experience and the pain definitely reminded me of my place in this whole thing.

Comment #25: siveambrai  on  02/20  at  07:18 PM

I had a vaginal ultrasound when trying to determine if I had an ovarian cyst, and it was ridiculously uncomfortable.

Neat thing about abortion providers, though, is that you can get a note in your chart that you had the ultrasound (whether or not you actually did) provided that you slip the technician some cash in the ultrasound room.

Very much like buying an Indulgence, these types of personal intrusions can be avoided with a well-placed bribe.

Comment #26: Rachel Tyrel  on  02/20  at  07:53 PM

I think I read an article where someone pushing this said something to the effect of, “She already agreed to be penetrated when she had sex and got pregnant, so what’s the big deal?”

Ugh, I’ve also heard this a different way, that she is going to consent to have something in her vagina to perform the abortion, so what’s the big deal about having one more procedure?  Well, aside from the fact that non-surgical option exist, it’s still wrong to have this weird idea that consent is fluid and expandable.  I mean, I consent to have a speculum inserted into my vagina once a year for a pap smear, but it would be a big deal if someone tried to force my doctor to perform some other procedure in my vagina.  Consent doesn’t work that way!

Comment #27: bananacat  on  02/20  at  08:11 PM

“She already agreed to be penetrated when she had sex and got pregnant, so what’s the big deal?”

It almost kind of makes sense if you substitute “agreed to be penetrated” with “sold her soul to the devil.” Once you cross that particular line, nothing else that happens has the same immediacy. That’s essentially what happens when you’ve declared yourself a member of Team Whore.

Comment #28: junk science  on  02/20  at  08:44 PM

The concept of consent does rather seem to be an intractable problem for the right wing - eg comparing gay marriage with marrying one’s dog. 

We in the UK had our own moment of WTF when a ultra right wing nationalist opined that the concept of rape was ridiculous once a woman wasn’t a virgin any more.  It would be like making a criminal offence out of giving a woman chocolate cake!

Comment #29: Katherine  on  02/21  at  10:29 AM

I had a transvaginal ultrasound a while ago, because my doctor wanted to do a “you just turned 30” check-up. I knew what to expect, I was relaxed and I had a great doctor who made me laugh with jokes about the book I was reading (camp cover with a couple embracing in red satin) and said she wanted to take pics of me to show other patients that it doesn’t have to be bad.
I had another last week, to check if my IUD was in the right place, and I had a doctor who thought I was pregnant, then berated be for not being pregnant, and asked me why I didn’t want to be pregnant, then said I didn’t have any good reasons for not wanting children, and the more pregnant women in the world, the better for him cos the more money he makes from ultrasounds. I actually told him off and defended myself when he said these things, but I didn’t ask for a different doctor because I just wanted it to be over so I could leave.
Guess what: even if you start from a position that a transvaginal ultrasound isn’t inherently bad and you’ve consented to be penetrated before, it’s still pretty traumatizing to be forced to suffer it while being judged by your reproductive and sexual choices and having your privacy invaded. It was “it’s days lated and why am I crying in the supermarket for no reason, I was fine when I left the house” traumatizing.

Comment #30: colorlessblue  on  02/22  at  07:16 PM

It was “it’s days later and why am I crying in the supermarket for no reason, I was fine when I left the house” traumatizing.

And this is what they want a woman to have to go through to have a legal (in the USA) medical procedure.  They want women considering abortion to have to face this kind of trauma, knowing it is trauma.  The excuse some of them use that abortion will be traumatic for the woman later and they are “protecting” women from that and regret is so clearly falsified by this it is truly stomach turning.

Comment #31: helen w. h.  on  02/23  at  09:38 AM
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