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Next entry: Friday Genius Ten “Yes New York” Edition Previous entry: NC: fundie pastor’s Halloween non-KJV bible burning and BBQ turns into batsh*t fail-o-rama

We call them the Cracker Taliban for a reason

Sorry about the gaping silence from my end.  Explanations will be issued tomorrow. 

Pam already posted on this, but I thought I’d highlight this video and blog post from Right Wing Watch about the Amazing Grace Baptist Church in Canton, North Carolina that decided to mark Halloween by having a book burning.  It didn’t really have the dramatic impact they hoped that it had—-or claimed it had after the fact—-because they weren’t allowed to actually burn anything, due to North Carolina’s fire safety laws.  Plus, it rained.  So they tore up a bunch of offending material and threw it in a trash can, and then pretended that it had the dramatic impact of Jesus Christ himself coming down and taking a piss on some Harry Potter books.

But what was really interesting to me about this story was the extent of materials they found offensive.  Right Wing Watch published their press release:

  Come to our Halloween book burning. We are burning Satan’s bibles like the NIV, RSV, NKJV, TLB, NASB, NEV, NRSV, ASV, NWT, Good News for Modern Man, The Evidence Bible, The Message Bible, The Green Bible, ect. These are perversions of God’s Word the King James Bible.

  We will also be burning Satan’s music such as country , rap , rock , pop, heavy metal, western, soft and easy, southern gospel , contempory [sic] Christian , jazz, soul, oldies but goldies, etc.

  We will also be burning Satan’s popular books written by heretics like Westcott & Hort , Bruce Metzger, Billy Graham , Rick Warren , Bill Hybels , John McArthur, James Dobson, Charles Swindoll , John Piper, Chuck Colson, Tony Evans, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swagart, Mark Driskol, Franklin Graham , Bill Bright, Tim Lahaye, Paula White, T.D. Jakes, Benny Hinn , Joyce Myers, Brian McLaren, Robert Schuller, Mother Teresa , The Pope , Rob Bell, Erwin McManus, Donald Miller, Shane Claiborne, Brennan Manning, William Young, etc.

Right wing Christians try to pretend there’s some kind of yawning gulf between Islam and Christianity, but this sort of thing just goes to show that no matter what the technical religion is, crazy ass fundamentalists are all the same.  The Cracker Taliban would happily ban art and music to prove their bona fides.  The mentality that drives this sort of thing is inherently competitive and misanthropic.  Misanthropic, because of the deep-seated hostility to pleasure (at least experienced by other people), and competitive, because religious nuts love to show that they’re tougher than their competitors in the art of making people’s short stays on earth as miserable as possible.  No music, no entertaining reading, no diversion from sitting around hating life and wishing it could be over already.  Meanwhile, the sadists get lots of pleasure out of hurting others.

This kind of goofiness is why it’s really ill-advised for Democrats to think they can “compromise” with religious fanatics in their own party like Bart Stupak.  Giving these people an inch to satisfy their craving for forcing suffering on others—-especially on women—-really does only encourage them to demand a mile.  There is no such thing as a limit.  The whole point is to keep pushing it, to prove how tough you are.  The fantasy for anti-choice nuts is to get to a point where they can really prove that they are happy to sacrifice not only pleasure, but life itself for their principles.  Not their own lives or pleasure, of course.  Their pleasure is making others bend to their will, and that’s not ever questioned.  Their lives are too precious, of course.  But a 9-year-old rape victim who could die if she gives birth is the optimal sacrifice to demonstrate that they are more hardcore than thou in the sadistic Jesus freak shit. 

There’s not much else more I can say on this.  I just wanted to point this whole debacle out, because the end game of this kind of holier-than-thou crap is this, a complete denial of any kind of pleasure or diversion.  There is always something else on the horizon that might give someone else pleasure, something that needs to be stomped out.  I think a lot of Democrats, particularly moderate ones, would like to believe that the anti-sex crowd will be mollified if they are allowed to punish and scapegoat those unlucky enough to have an unintended pregnancy they can’t carry to term.  But all that these compromises do is raise the bar for the minimally acceptable sadism to be considered a True Believer, and encourages them to race down the road to flogging someone to death for humming a little tune that reminds them of more carefree days in the sun. 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 11:23 PM • (42) Comments

Given any chance at all, our talibangelicals would make the Islamic hardliners look like a Sunday School picnic at the Unitarian Church.

Comment #1: DrDick  on  11/13  at  12:24 AM

Right On Analysis. I wish it could be beaten into the heads of the Administration and the Dems!

Comment #2: KMTBERRY  on  11/13  at  12:42 AM

<blockquote>The public-relations campaigns of the Catholic Church’s rivals do not impress Archbishop Cardoso Sobrinho. He told TIME that the Vatican rejects believers who pick and choose their issues. Rome “is not going to open the door to anyone just to get more members,”</blockquote

Have to wonder how SoberHo feels about the RCC’s latest poaching on the Anglicans and letting them transfer over - married priests and all.

Comment #3: phylosopher  on  11/13  at  12:45 AM

Didn’t King James have male lovers?

Comment #4: teac  on  11/13  at  12:50 AM

I think it’s really one of the main reasons why (certain) conservatives always talk about hating and wanting to kill liberals. We don’t obey their stupid rules, and we have at least as much fun as they do. It must really burn.

Comment #5: felagund  on  11/13  at  12:57 AM

teac, that’s what historically has been reported

Then again, they’d never believe it was true. They’d dismiss it as something teh libruls made up to discredit a man of God.

Comment #6: UltraMagnus  on  11/13  at  01:46 AM

I’m trying to figure out how a bible with less books than the Catholic one that showed up close to a thousand years after the Catholic version is the true one?  But the author hit it on the head, it’s a mental game of anguish they play to feel justified in their beliefs.  They’re also the first one to get their children back door abortions, have prostitutes service them, and generally misbehave.  Their beliefs are for us to deal with it and for them to break whenever they wish to. 

Pay unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and unto god what is god’s.  Keep your religion out of my politics essentially.

Comment #7: Xeranar  on  11/13  at  01:46 AM

The only good thing about fundamentalists is that the very thing that makes them all the same causes a mental block that prevents them from ever realizing they’re so alike…

Comment #8: Devonian  on  11/13  at  02:20 AM

MonkeyShines: it pertains to the eucharist, not the skin color.

Comment #9: Mandolin  on  11/13  at  02:53 AM

i must respectfully disagree:

“One thing that you can say for these folks, at least they are sincere about their beliefs.  No hypocrisy or pussyfooting for them.”

the dumbass “faithful flock” might, but (especially in the present case) rarely are the (mostly self-appointed) pastors so sincere. they see it as simply a means of controlling their cash flow. the pastor of this church couldn’t give two nanny-goat shits about these, or any books, music, art, etc. i doubt he’s even read (assuming he reads on higher than a 7th grade level) the vast majority of them. for him, this whole thing was merely a way of generating lots of free publicity. and generate it it did!

the actual event itself, regardless of how it played out, was anti-climactic (unless someone got horribly burned, in which case he’d have claimed the devil fought back!), it was the journey that was important. i’m betting they got several new members, and some much needed cash out of the deal.

Comment #10: cpinva  on  11/13  at  03:48 AM

More evidence there is an American Taliban trying to take over the country. This little jerkass church couldn’t pull off a real book burning, but they’ve got the spirit. We should fear it.

But there are more serious enemies. The folks who put all those idiots into the Texas SBOE are much more serious foes. The fundie effort in Colorado Springs to pack the USAF with officers who might become a real life General Ripper is the greatest threat of all. Fundies want The Bomb

The Abrahamic religions are the enemy. We must never forget it.

Obama doesn’t understand this. He collaborates with the enemy within our borders and abroad. This is acceptable at this time. We are not yet strong enough to achieve victory. He has stopped abstinance-only AIDS prevention programs and has stemmed the tide of Regents University know-nothings into our federal departments. This is enough for now. If we bide our time victory will come later.

Pat Buchannan declared cultural war against us in 1992, and the war has been waged against us ever since. We may not have wanted war and held out hope that we could reason with our opponents, but these hopes have failed. Our enemy will give us no quarter, we should remember that and seek a position of strength to defeat them.

Comment #11: Bacopa  on  11/13  at  04:10 AM

MonkeyShines is right that the gulf that exists is that these people are not in control of the state, and they shouldn’t be.  The problem that Amanda identifies is that our state thinks that people with these kinds of attitudes are getting more and more authority in our government (and have too much already).

Comment #12: Ursula  on  11/13  at  04:12 AM

I hate to be a pandering wet blanket, but we can indulge ourselves in a little malicious pleasure in noting that they weren’t actually permitted to hold a book bonfire. Blasphemy be damned, you’re not allowed to pollute the air! That’s progress.

Note as well that they didn’t ban folk or classical music. Most likely it was oversight, but the thought that they might still listen to Bach, Beethoven and Baez is encouraging.

Comment #13: bad Jim  on  11/13  at  06:30 AM

One can only imagine what a hell-hole would be created were the Dominionists and the brain-dead Regent University alumna to assume power. It would be a modern Dark Age in which the products of generations of creative thinkers would be lost to the fires tended by a lumpenproletariat herd never infected with an original thought.

Comment #14: BobbyV  on  11/13  at  08:10 AM

One can only imagine what a hell-hole would be created were the Dominionists and the brain-dead Regent University alumna to assume power.

They would probably crash the economy, get us involved in several wars, try to abolish social security, and fail to respond when a hurricane devastated a major American city.  wink

Comment #15: rea  on  11/13  at  09:00 AM

How many of them are aware I wonder that the monarch who commissioned what they consider to be the only acceptable translation was a big juicy fruit?

Can we take a moment to express respect for the remarkable George Villiars, Duke of Buckingham?  Who, by well-known accounts (1) was the lover of James I, Charles I, AND Anne of Austria, Queen of France, and (2) survived sword fights with both D’Artagnan and Diego Alatriste, only to be assasinated by a love-crazed puritan?

Comment #16: rea  on  11/13  at  09:09 AM

The public-relations campaigns of the Catholic Church’s rivals do not impress Archbishop Cardoso Sobrinho. He told TIME that the Vatican rejects believers who pick and choose their issues. Rome “is not going to open the door to anyone just to get more members,”

Pretty funny stuff, that.  The hierarchy has been welcoming back assholes who pick and choose anti-Vatican II reform issues—even revoking excommunication!

Basic tenet, even pre-V2, of Catholicism: your conscience is primary.  Only you can know if what you are doing is a sin, even if others condemn you, if you know in your heart you did the best possible thing you could in the situation, God may still understand, forgive, and reward.

I guarantee you Richard Williamson and the other former schizmatics believed they were going to heaven even with excommunication on their souls.

Ini other words, Sobrinho is talking out of his ass, and will get very haughty and nasty if anyone tries to call him out on it.  Just like a toddler.

I’m sick to death of theocrats and their fears.  Freedom is scary, and you are responsible for your choices.  Others will make different choices, and they may be right and you may be wrong.  They might make what you think is the wrong decision, and end up happier b/c of it.

I know I avoided buying real estate for years b/c of the bubble.  Big mistake, since the bubble lasted much longer than I could have imagined, and people who took those chances are in much better financial shape than I am.

Thing is, I don’t want to strip their civil rights away because they made what I considered foolish decisions and got away with them.  That would be unAmerican, at least in the America I was brought up to believe in.

And it is a belief, not a fact.  The country can change and has changed and has mechanisms to facilitate changes.  It’s why no one can sit back and trust that America will remain free…it doesn’t have to.

Comment #17: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  11/13  at  10:07 AM

My favorite part is that their banned-genres list includes “oldies but goldies.”  What about Oldies but Crappies?

Comment #18: Billingham  on  11/13  at  10:17 AM

Can we take a moment to express respect for the remarkable George Villiars, Duke of Buckingham?  Who, by well-known accounts (1) was the lover of James I, Charles I, AND Anne of Austria, Queen of France, and (2) survived sword fights with both D’Artagnan and Diego Alatriste, only to be assassinated by a love-crazed puritan?

He also found time to write great Restoration satirical plays, too.

Comment #19: Ranylt  on  11/13  at  10:33 AM

(Or was that the OTHER Buckingham?)

Comment #20: Ranylt  on  11/13  at  10:34 AM

“One can only imagine what a hell-hole would be created were the Dominionists and the brain-dead Regent University alumna to assume power.”

I imagine it would be pretty close to the nutcase Christianist version of Pol Pot’s Cambodia.  Which would eventually become the real life Gilead of The Handmaid’s Tale...

Comment #21: MikeEss  on  11/13  at  10:57 AM

Yes, it was the other Buckingham, the son of the first, who had the same name.

Comment #22: helen w. h.  on  11/13  at  11:08 AM

What fascinates me is their preoccupation with consigning other christians to hell. The rest of us are just also-rans. From a congregation-preseving point of view this might seem to make sense because other sects are nominally their closest competitors, but from a public-image point of view it’s just crazy (q.v.).

If the Dominionists took over, it might be more like the Terror than Pol Pot—all these sick fscks are so power-hungry and attention-mad that they would immediately start fatwa’ing one another into oblivion. And they’re even further constrained (here’s the Pol Pot angle) by the fact that they have only the most limited space for disguising power struggles as doctrinal differences, because any complex discussion of doctrine smack of intellectuality and must be purged…

Comment #23: paul  on  11/13  at  11:15 AM

I’m wondering how any of them manage to actually read a text as complex and dated as the KJV Bible if they’re essentially against reading any other book ever written. I mean, the Bible isn’t necessarily at the most advanced reading level ever, but most of us didn’t go right from illiterate to several-hundred-page historical texts without at least a couple years of Dr. Seuss in between. But apparently that is Blasphemous. How did they learn to *read*?

Or perhaps this is why Bible-thumpers tend to have such a poor understanding of what’s actually in the Bible anyway…

Comment #24: thecynicalromantic  on  11/13  at  11:29 AM

These guys aren’t in control of any state, thought they might like to be.

People like this have much more power than you give them credit for.  We’re not officially a theocracy, but they have plenty of influence on our laws.  It’s not as bad as the Taliban, yet.  The groups that are a little more secretive about how they extreme they are have even more power.  They have so much power that the non-wingnut majority bends over backwards to “compromise” with them.

No one who hasn’t chosen to join is compelled to follow their rules.

Until they start getting laws passed to restrict access to abortion, birth control, and even education.  Also, some of these groups are very cult-like, and children who grow up in them have little chance of escaping.  That probably doesn’t happen in this particular group, but it happens in enough of them.

Comment #25: bananacat  on  11/13  at  12:19 PM

“No one who hasn’t chosen to join is compelled to follow their rules.”

Unless you’re the child of one of their members.  Weren’t fundies flipping out just six months ago because some UN children’s-rights provision could conceivably be used to keep them from forcing their religion on their resistant spawn?

And, of course, as catgirl pointed out, unless you happen to be affected by one of the things that sect members managed to get passed into secular law or shoved into government policy, which happens all the goddamn time, especially at a local level.  For fuck’s sake, there are still entire states with dildo-bans.

Comment #26: preying mantis  on  11/13  at  01:05 PM

There still is a ”yawning gulf between Islam and Christianity” though.  These guys aren’t in control of any state, thought they might like to be.  The Amazing Grace Baptist Church is a voluntary body.  No one who hasn’t chosen to join is compelled to follow their rules.

Two things here.

1.  There was a time when the Taliban were not in control of any state (they rose to power in Afghanistan in the 90’s).  There was also a time when other hard-line Muslim dominated countries were not dominated by extremists—the Iran we know today sprung into existence in 1979; it was one of the most secular middle eastern nations prior to the revolution.  Iraq has become more heavily dominated by fundamentalist Islam in the years since we destroyed their country. 

There is a lesson for us in this - just because religious extremists aren’t running the country right now doesn’t mean they can’t.  If we rein these people in now, there is much less chance of finding ourselves in the Christian equivalent of Iran or Afghanistan down the line. 

2.  Regarding whether this church is a “voluntary body” or not, and whether it’s meaningful that they don’t formally control any sovereign government: clearly you are not from the bible belt.  While, sure, people like this don’t formally run our country, they can exert a lot of influence on the local level.  Both officially (by taking over schoolboards and the like) and casually, by dominating local discourse. 

I grew up mainline Protestant and liberal/Democratic in a religiously and politically conservative southern town.  Regardless of my parents’ enlightened views, the extremely conservative community I grew up in molded me.  I spent the better part of a decade deprogramming myself from some of the noxious beliefs I grew up considering normal, and still deal with the resulting political and religious demons.  And I was the lucky kid who grew up with parents who told her education was her friend and girls could grow up to do anything boys could - as catgirl mentions and as I’ve seen with my own eyes, it’s much harder when you’re raised at the center of this stuff.  Yes, religious fundamentalism CAN do damage even to people who haven’t voluntarily chosen to lead that lifestyle.

Comment #27: The Opoponax  on  11/13  at  01:52 PM

KJV-only is an interesting fundy fringe, and this article got me wondering if any of them have taken it to the point of trying to *speak* Elizabethan English?  After all, if God’s Holy Word (tm) can’t be translated into modern American English, surely that must mean there’s something wrong with the current tongue, right?  I guess it hasn’t happened (at least that I’m aware of) because it would really isolate the congregation from society at large. You would need a seriously charismatic (and megalomaniac) leader to inspire that level of commitment.

Comment #28: jackd  on  11/13  at  03:00 PM

What catgirl and The Opoponax said.

No, we don’t live in a true Taliban-style theocracy… yet.  And hopefully we never reach that point.  While a reasonable case can be made that we are a long way from being there, that shouldn’t be reason for us to remain complacent on the issue.  Dominionist forces in America may not have yet succeeded to the point where homosexuals can be executed for existing or girls can have acid thrown on them for merely attending school, but don’t think that many of them wouldn’t take it to that level given the opportunity.  If it were legal to shoot a gay man walking down the street just for being gay, you better believe that people like Pat Robertson would be among the first in line to take that shot.

These whackos have had tons of success in keeping LGBT people in a position of second-class citizenship, and while they haven’t been able to overturn Roe completely, they have had and continue to have success at chipping away at the fundamental rights it is intended to protect.

Acknowledging that we haven’t hit the true Taliban point yet shouldn’t be an excuse to pretend that the fundies’ influence isn’t real and dangerous, or that it hasn’t had any success whatsoever.  Being “not a bad as them” in this regard doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re doing good.

The biggest irony is that the people who give the most lip service to spreading freedom abroad to theocratic countries ruled by oppressive Islamic laws are the very same people who are working the hardest to have our own freedoms curtailed here by the force of oppressive Christian laws.

Comment #29: DTG in STL  on  11/13  at  03:04 PM

I’m wondering how any of them manage to actually read a text as complex and dated as the KJV Bible if they’re essentially against reading any other book ever written.

I’m sure they’re all for dogmatically acceptable primer texts. “My First Brimstone”, “The Sinner In The Hat (Who Burned In Hell)”, that sort of thing.

Comment #30: kristin  on  11/13  at  03:48 PM

Note as well that they didn’t ban folk or classical music

Well I’m sure if they’d heard of Mahler, they’d ban him.  I wonder if any of them go see The Nutcracker over the holidays, and if they know Tchaikovsky was a big ol’ homo.

I’m wondering how any of them manage to actually read a text as complex and dated as the KJV Bible if they’re essentially against reading any other book ever written. I mean, the Bible isn’t necessarily at the most advanced reading level ever, but most of us didn’t go right from illiterate to several-hundred-page historical texts without at least a couple years of Dr. Seuss in between. But apparently that is Blasphemous. How did they learn to *read*?

What makes you think that they’ve read it?  Presumably the pastor has, he has to quote something on Sundays, but I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that many, or most, fundies have never read the Bible in its entirety.  I can’t completely blame them; it’s a snoozer, but I’m certain that most of their “knowledge” comes from Sunday sermons.

Comment #31: keshmeshi  on  11/13  at  03:54 PM

Snoozer though it is, Southern Baptists place a high value on reading the thing, preferably in a study, so one doesn’t come to “inappropriate” conclusions.

Comment #32: redwards  on  11/13  at  04:28 PM

There’s nothing wrong with Southern Baptists that couldn’t be fixed by holding them under the water a bit longer.

Comment #33: BobbyV  on  11/13  at  04:42 PM

I have a strong suspicion that most of the evangelical Christians who claim to read the bible “from cover to cover” (a terrible way to read the bible, btw) really just plod through it page after page, having no idea what’s going on.  Occasionally they find a passage they remember hearing in church or having to memorize in Sunday school, and nod knowingly.

Comment #34: The Opoponax  on  11/13  at  04:58 PM

Note as well that they didn’t ban folk or classical music

I doubt they’re very familiar with either one, since they’re both pretty much niche markets these days. I would imagine that whatever folk scene NC may have is largely confined to the Triangle, and there aren’t any first- or second-tier symphony orchestras in the state, either. It’s mostly just semi-professional municipals.

Comment #35: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  11/13  at  05:43 PM

You know, just as an aside, I’ve spoken with the “KJV is Best” crowd and any argument I would make about the various mistranslations, poor versioning, awkward or misleading word choice, and editing by people with an agenda are brushed aside with this un-answerable argument:

“God was watching and made sure they wrote it the RIGHT way.”

So.  There you are.  The homosexuality or non-homosexuality of King James is irrelevant.  The political situation in 17th-Century England is irrelevant.  Elizabethan idiom is irrelevant.  Publishing mistakes are irrelevant.

Comment #36: tannenburg  on  11/13  at  07:20 PM

I wonder how they knew God was watching, and what makes them think that God wasn’t watching any of the other translations.  Do they think She went out for a sandwich, or something?

Getting back to the topic, making life miserable for people is only the fundies’ secondary goal.  After all, if you’re already enjoying life here on earth, why should you toe the line in hope of getting heaven after you die?*

2. Nobody really wants to eat stale, dry bread, but if it’s all you’ve got, you’ll eat it.  If all forms of entertainment are banned, then sermons are the only entertainment you can enjoy.

3. If you’re enjoying books, music, art, etc. then you’re not really in the mood to hear how all the outsiders must be crushed so the elders of the flock can gain more power.

4. Worst of all, if you enjoy books, music, art, etc. made by people “outside the flock”, then you start thinking “Hey, these folks aren’t so bad!” which undermines all those years of indoctrination to crush the outsiders.  Why do you think white parents in the 50s’ were so upset about their kids listening to Chuck Berry, Chubby Checker, and all the rest of the “Negro Music”?


*Funny how there are so many, many descriptions of Hell, but Heaven’s are few and vague.  If pleasure is verboten, then it can’t be in Heaven, and if there’s no pleasure in Heaven, why strive to get there?

To which the fundie will reply “So you’re not punished for eternity, you nincompoop!” 
Oh, OK.

Comment #37: Blue Jean  on  11/13  at  07:42 PM

“If pleasure is verboten, then it can’t be in Heaven, and if there’s no pleasure in Heaven, why strive to get there?”

Ah! But one pleasure is allowed, looking down and seeing you friends & loved ones suffering torment in Hell

Of course, you or I wouldn’t find this a great pleasure, but fundies are the kind of sick puppies who would

Comment #38: jefft452  on  11/13  at  08:35 PM

LOL!  Good point.  Watching my friends and family suffer would make Heaven into Hell into me, so I’m probably not going to the fundie Heaven.  *whew!*

Comment #39: Blue Jean  on  11/13  at  10:19 PM

That’s what they’re looking forward to more than anything: watching the torture and suffering of all those people who were happy and enjoyed life when the fundies couldn’t.

Comment #40: junk science  on  11/14  at  12:17 AM

The more things change, the more they stay the same. 

From H. L. Menckens’  The Hills of Zion:

The preacher stopped at least, and there arose out the darkness a woman with her hair pulled back into a little tight knot. She began so quickly we couldn’t hear what she said, but soon her voice rose resonantly and we could follow her. She was denouncing the reading of books. Some wandering book agent, it appeared, had come to her cabin and tried to sell her a specimen of his wares. She refused to touch it. Why, indeed, read a book? If what was in it was true, then everything in it was already in the Bible. If it was false, then reading it would imperil the soul. This syllogism from the Caliph Omar complete, she sat down.

Link

Comment #41: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  11/14  at  12:52 PM

The hardcore “bodily integrity” lobby is really cold-hearted sometimes, yes?

No.

Comment #42: killjoy  on  11/16  at  02:23 AM
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