Login

Register

Member List

RSS Feed

Amanda | Contact

Auguste | Contact

Jesse | Contact

Pam | Contact

Next entry: The Bachmanns Are Taking All My Money Previous entry: Why the Sonic Youth news isn’t as bad as we fear

We can fight anti-choicers and fight scientific misinformation….together

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a problem. I wrote about this problem at RH Reality Check, but in the days since it’s only gotten worse. (By the way, Katha Pollitt and I communicated about my linking of her article, and we see eye-to-eye on this---she, as I suspected, was under a column length crunch and couldn’t address every nagging detail. So I want you to say I’m not criticizing her, but simply pointing out that there’s a, let’s call it a “plot hole” in the pro-choice narrative.) The problem is that, in addressing anti-choice narratives around the personhood amendment and in explaining why such a thing can and probably will be used to restrict the birth control pill, feminists are giving air to an anti-choice misinformation campaign to redefine the pill as “abortion”. I strongly suspect that personhood amendments aren’t even really intended to win so much as to give anti-choicers frequent opportunities to claim the pill works by killing fertilized eggs. The long game, I believe, is to get that false belief ingrained in conventional wisdom, and then use it to apply existing abortion restrictions to the birth control pill. I especially suspect that the intention is to make sure that the Hyde and Stupak amendments are expanded to include the bill, meaning that the only way women will be able to get it is through out-of-pocket funding.

I realize that doesn’t make a lot of sense. Even if you buy the scientific misinformation that the pill works by killing fertilized eggs, that still wouldn’t make taking it an “abortion”, because pregnancy begins at implantation, not conception. The problem with making that point, of course, is that activists, legislators, and the courts aren’t beholden to the medical definition of an abortion. They argue life begins at conception, and so from their point of view, anything that interferes with that is an “abortion”. More importantly, you could call it a “tiddlywinks”, and they wouldn’t care. We aren’t really arguing about terminology here. They’re trying to claim the pill kills fertilized eggs, which are granted greater status in our culture than non-fertilized eggs, and they hope by doing so they can stigmatize the pill enough to start legislating against it. They probably wouldn’t even need to call it an “abortion” if they’re able to get the false story of how the pill works to spread far and wide. Already many abortion restrictions avoid talking about pregnancy and talk instead of “life at conception”; they’re poised to do this. Now they just need to get people to believe something that just has no evidence for it, that the pill works by killing fertilized eggs.

Luckily for them, they have feminists doing that job.

First, the facts. The fact of the matter is that the pill works by preventing ovulation. The original formulation---and I think this is still true for most forms of it, if not all---was to put your hormone levels where they would be post-ovulation. The reason for this is that after you ovulate, your body suppresses another ovulation in order to prevent a second conception. Some medical scientists have theorized that there may be secondary actions in play for the pill that make it work better.  One of these theories, which has no evidence for it that I could find (or that Lindsay Beyerstein could find---she’s been looking, too), is that the thinning of the uterine lining might make it harder for fertilized eggs to  implant.  Because of all sorts of regulations and practices in the pharmaceutical industry, these theories are included in the packaging for pills, in the same way they have to include potential side effects, even if the researchers are 95% sure the side effects weren’t actually caused by the medication. For instance, your pill package probably includes “weight gain” as a potential side effect of the pill. That’s because it was a potential, if basically untested side effect. But extensive research has demonstrated that the pill does not make you gain weight. As weird as it may seem to a layperson, that something is on your info packet when you get a medication doesn’t make it true. That info packet isn’t a scientific document; it’s a CYA maneuver.

Now for the facts.

Fact #1: Many eggs slough off on their own, so even if you manage to fertilize an egg and it dies while you’re on the pill, there’s no reason to think that the pill is the cause. That said, women on the pill don’t ovulate much! If you take it perfectly, probably never. Or even somewhat imperfectly. But even if you have a tendency to skip 4 or 5 days here or there, and you do ovulate, you’re still doing it less than someone who uses nothing at all. So you’re simply killing fewer fertilized eggs than the good Catholic who uses nothing and is constantly pregnant. Odds are high I’ve never had a fertilized egg die on me, but Rick Santorum’s wife has probably killed dozens, if not more.

Fact #2: No evidence that the pill works this way.  Not only that, but it’s been known for awhile that we don’t have any reason to believe that this theory of the pill’s function is true. Writing for RH Reality Check, Cristina Page said:

Prompted, in part, by the growing efforts of anti-abortion groups to define birth control as abortion, the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology in 1999 reviewed the available research on "the mechanism of action" of the contraceptive methods that so dismay pro-lifers……

The researchers consider the question and report , "No direct evidence exists showing that implantation is prevented by progestin-only methods" and "The evidence does not support the theory that the usual mechanism of action of IUDs is destruction of fertilized ova in the uterus," say the authors. After reviewing all the research available on the modes of action of all contraceptives in question the authors summarize their report by explaining that "Even though the precise mechanism of action of modern contraceptive is not yet fully known, scientific evidence suggests the main mechanisms of action for each method. Inhibition of ovulation and effects on the cervical mucus are the primary mechanisms of the contraceptive action of hormonal methods. Evidence indicates that the primary mechanism of action of IUDs is the prevention of fertilization."

It’s a widespread belief that emergency contraception works by killing a fertilized egg. Actually, it’s just high dose birth control pills that prevent ovulation. If anything, emergency contraception is less likely to have the uterine lining effect that anti-choicers claim.

It has been demonstrated that LNG-EC acts through an effect on follicular development to delay or inhibit ovulation but has no effect once luteinizing hormone has started to increase. Thereafter, LNG-EC cannot prevent ovulation and it does not prevent fertilization or affect the human fallopian tube. LNG-EC has no effect on endometrial development or function. In an in vitro model, it was demonstrated that LNG did not interfere with blastocyst function or implantation.

In her recent must-read post on this, Lindsay Beyerstein added

 

Over time, birth control pills thin the lining of the uterus. It has been hypothesized that a thinner endometrium is less receptive to fertilized eggs, but this conjecture has never been tested. This seems unlikely, given how easy it is for women to get pregnant by taking the birth control pill sporadically. Missing a couple of pills won't undo the chronic changes in the uterine lining, but skipping pills during the critical window can easily allow an egg to escape. If a thinner endometrium was such a barrier to pregnancy, we'd expect the pill to be even more reliable than it is.

I hope this has convinced you that we don’t need to repeat the claims that the pill kills fertilized eggs. There’s no scientific evidence for that claim, and there is scientific evidence against it. We should insist on sticking to the science instead of being dragged into the anti-choice “what if” game.

But not only have I seen feminists make the understandable mistake of accepting the fertilized egg theory as a third mechanism---the information that this is un-evidenced is very hard to get in a sea of anti-choice misinformation---I’m beginning to see inexcusable examples of feminists suggesting that “killing fertilized eggs” is how the pill works. Which is what anti-choicers want you to believe. A woman confronted Mitt Romney about his support of a personhood amendment, and her misinformation got wide hearing:

 

I don't know if you want to have some staff look into this, but hormonal forms of birth control work a little differently. They actually prevent implantation, not conception.

I saw this exchange posted everywhere with absolutely no correction of this blatant (if unintended) misinformation. Even Jezebel’s write-up unfortunately implied that killing fertilized eggs is an evidenced mechanism of the pill, and that it happens frequently, which it doesn’t.  They made it worse by making fun of Mitt Romney for not knowing how the pill works. The problem with that is he actually showed a better understanding of it than either the woman asking him a question or the Jezebel writer. If you make fun of someone for being wrong, but they’re actually right, then you’re the one with egg on your face.

I get why feminists are allowing anti-choice misinformation to find home in our mouths. We want to tell people that personhood amendments are intended to ban the pill, because they are! The easiest way to say that is to accept the false premise that the pill kills fertilized eggs. And that will win us a short term victory, but lose us the long term war. Plus, bad science is bad science, and you shouldn’t give air to it.

There is a way to make it clear that the right is using this to ban the pill without giving credence to their misinformation. One way I’ve gone about doing this is to say, “Anti-choicers hope that misinformation about how the pill works can be used to ban it.” Irin Carmon did a great job of parsing the scientific misinformation and the legal issues in her Salon piece on Mississippi personhood.

If this initiative passes, and fertilized eggs on their own have full legal rights, anything that could potentially block that implantation – something a woman’s body does naturally all the time – could be considered murder. Scientists say hormonal birth-control pills and the morning-after pill work primarily by preventing fertilization in the first place, but the outside possibility, never documented, that an egg could be fertilized anyway and blocked is enough for some pro-lifers.

I would also add that right wingers get all sorts of misinformation into the law all the time, as anyone who follows the creationism wars will tell you. Because the “pill kills” thing is untrue doesn’t make it less of a threat. All you need is a few people with some letters after their name to present themselves falsely as experts to the court, a judge with a right wing agenda, and the law can be kept in place. If you want evidence of how this works, consider that Carhart v. Gonzalez was decided in part on a big, fat lie: that women who have abortions have “post-abortion” syndrome. This isn’t even playing loose with the facts. Anti-choicers just made that shit up, presented it as evidence, and the idea of it was all over Kennedy’s decision.

There’s also the understandable fear of conceding the argument that fertilized eggs are people. No need to do that, either. I think one thing pro-choicers need to highlight as much as the pill thing is fact that these laws will almost surely be used to prosecute miscarriages. If anything, they’re more likely to be used for that at first than to ban the pill, which will be a separate legal battle that will take years to fight. You can start prosecuting miscarriages right away; you can even do so while leaving abortion legal. Prosecuting miscarriages is an especially attractive fight for anti-choicers because you can target the most vulnerable women in our society for that abuse. We know this, because women are already being thrown in jail for stillbirth.  They tend to be poorer women, women of color, and immigrants, exactly the sort of women that don’t get a lot of defenders, especially if they live less than perfect lives. Particularly in Mississippi, I expect that a personhood law would immediately result in miscarriage arrests and investigations. I’m guessing you will quickly see women who go to hospitals for miscarriages grilled about whether they’ve had a drink, worked at a job requiring physical labor, and tested for drug use---and if any of these things are true, out come the cuffs. Sure, there may not be any scientific information linking her miscarriage to these activities, but anti-choicers have never really been that enthusiastic about science in the first place. Additionally, expect it to become illegal for doctors to perform emergency D&Cs on women who are miscarrying, leaving those women to die, and doctors may also be required to let a woman’s fallopian tube burst rather than give her drugs to terminate ectopic pregnancies. 

------

Registration is now required! We're still in the process of getting it all squared away, so for the moment don't forget to Login or Register using the links in the upper left menu before starting to write your comment.

Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 09:44 AM • (42) Comments

There Is Money In Words Specially If You Are Using The Best <ahref=”http://coachingninjas.com/brad-callen’s-niche-finder-more-than-just-a-keyword-search-tool/”>Keyword Search Tool</a> By Ewen Chia. Discover The Best Keywords Now And Be Found.

Comment #1: Allisa Siono  on  10/27  at  10:20 AM

That last paragraph is unbelievable and terrifying.  We can’t really be going down this path in America can we?  Oh wait, nevermind.

thanks for explaining this because I was buying “the pill kills fertilized eggs” as a good argument to make.  In fact, I was making it, now I see I have to refine that.

Comment #2: ewellone  on  10/27  at  10:29 AM

YES! I saw someone who was pro-choice describing birth control pills as preventing the implantation of fertilized eggs, and I just wanted to throw something at the screen! Didn’t we spend several annoying rounds about 10 years ago debunking that idea so that pro-lifers didn’t get any traction with “the pill and the morning after pill were abortion pills”? The fact that ladies get knocked up all the time while taking the pill is testimony to the fact that, at least a substantial proportion of fertilized eggs will implant even if you’re on the pill. Also, this amendment scares the crap out of me. AS someone who has had recurrent miscarriage, the LAST thing you need is to have a legal precedent that allows law enforcement to investigate any suspicious deaths. Horrible, horrible, horrible. So inhumane.

Comment #3: t-ster  on  10/27  at  10:39 AM

As far as I’m concerned, I’m not willing to cede ground on this. If I get into the “the Pill kills baybeez” argument with some idiot, I’m not going to pet their little heads and reassure them that the pill only prevents ovulation and implantation. I’m going to go full-on “are you fucking kidding me” and point to the obvious differences between a fertilized egg (even an egg of five weeks) and a fully-grown woman, or hell, even a born baby. And asking them where the FUCK they get off even suggesting that a little blob of tissue that could just as easily slough off on its own, or become a molar pregnancy, or attach to a fallopian tube, (or any other number of ghastly things that go wrong often enough in pregnancy) has greater rights than a born human being that has the ability to perceive and think.

These people believe in the homunculus. They believe that inside every sperm is a fully-formed microscopic baby that need only grow in size until it can no longer be contained in the womb and bursts out triumphant. THAT’S that correcting of the record I choose to focus on. smile

Comment #4: Mighty Ponygirl  on  10/27  at  11:06 AM

If a doctor can’t even tell you’re pregnant before implantation of a fertilized egg, then to my mind you’re NOT pregnant yet, and if the embryo never implants, then you never were pregnant in the first place. YMMV.

http://imgur.com/R5Kp6

That said, check out my birth control fact sheet that comes with my old prescription. I can’t believe they get away with this language!  It’s so disingenuous. “Embryo/unborn baby?” Yeesh.

Comment #5: twg_  on  10/27  at  11:21 AM

...and doctors may also be required to let a woman’s fallopian tube burst rather than give her drugs to terminate ectopic pregnancies.

That’s how it is in El Salvador, Chile, and Nicaragua.  Funny how the same people who abhor immigrants from south of the border what to import their worst ideas.

Comment #6: prufrock  on  10/27  at  11:27 AM

...want to.  Stupid lack of edits!

Comment #7: prufrock  on  10/27  at  11:29 AM

Mighty, I understand the urge. I really do.

But we must not give up the fight against scientific misinformation. If we don’t start with science and instead start with ideology, we lose the long term battle. The right is desperate to make facts irrelevant so that all political battles are over ideology. We mustn’t let it happen. The is about more than reproductive rights, but about global warming, too.

Comment #8: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/27  at  11:38 AM

Ask someone trying to have a kid if she’s pregnant if nothing implants successfully.  If your body doesn’t engage with a fertilized egg, there may well be a reason for that. 

I also want to know how ectopic pregnancies are treated under this legal scheme.

Comment #9: saraeanderson  on  10/27  at  11:53 AM

@ 2, I am also horrified by the idea.  Years ago I was having this debate with a young republican, and I threw at her that her opinions implied putting women in jail for getting an abortion.  She told me she was heartily for it, and at the time I assumed it was just trolling IRL.  I’ve seen enough of these people to understand better now.

Comment #10: ganews_  on  10/27  at  11:58 AM

I tend to round back on people and shove their faces in their own fucking stupidity.

These people aren’t interested in science. They’ll start talking about how “they heard in health class it prevents implantation” or “I read a study in an email that my mom forwarded to me that said it prevents implantation” or some other reason that They’re Right And You’re Wrong. Science, for them, is only there to support ideology. Without taking a meaningful swing at how petty and mean-spirited their ideology is, there’s always going to be some other bogus “study” they point to in order to block your arguments. Once you start having them really think about what that little blob of tissue means, for them, in practical terms (like for example, the woman I know who had multiple miscarriages before finally having her son and whose m-i-l said quite seriously that abortion was nothing more than pre-meditated murder—which would make my friend guilty of multiple counts of at LEAST involuntary manslaughter—and how would she have conceived and bore that lady’s favoritest grandson if she were behind bars for that?) then you can start pushing in the facts that they are fundamentally wrong about the function of contraception, because at that point, you’re not mincing on what is and is not a pregnancy, or even what is or is not life. You’re forcing people to acknowledge that life can be messy and tragic and sometimes the most moral thing is to not bring a life into a fucked-up situation, and that there is big grey area between conception and birth that people are going to draw different lines about when it is and is not “life.”

Comment #11: Mighty Ponygirl  on  10/27  at  12:08 PM

...sitting over here in the corner waiting for the elders of looney christianism to start pushing the idea that geocentrism is the only correct view of our solar system/the universe, and humorism is the only correct understanding of the human body.  Meanwhile, the rest of the world is lining up to eat our scientific lunch…

OTOH, I suppose I could profit from this, if I start building/selling machines that model the crystal spheres upon which the stars, planets, and sun are attached, write new grade school and college textbooks on Aristotle’s understanding of physics, chemistry, and biology, start a leech farm, and teach future American christianist physicians about the many benefits of medicinal bloodletting. 

I’ve also been working on an idea for a really cool machine where there’s a wheel that is perpetually heavier on one side than the other, so it keeps spinning and spinning forever and creates free energy.  I’m having a little trouble getting it to work right, but I know I could bring my machine to market if I could get the moronic christianist sheep believers in the One True God to lend me a few million dollars to finish it… *holds out hand*

Comment #12: MikeEss  on  10/27  at  12:08 PM

Yes, it is maddening how so many people refuse to understand that pregnancy starts at implantation - NOT conception, and there is NO way at this time to find out if a woman has an unimplanted fertilized egg.  Also, these anti-BC nuts refuse to understand that there are other uses for BC pilled than preventing pregnancy.  I have PCOS (a not uncommon endocrinological disorder that causes infertility, among other health problems like a tendency to develop Type2 diabetes and higher risk for uterine cancer) and there are times in my life I’ve taken BC pills to control my out-of-balance hormones caused by the PCOS. 

Also, as a WoC, it is a scary thought that miscarriages could - or would - become criminal investigations.  I had a miscarriage at 4 months in March of this year.  It happened without warning, and I had been working hard to have a healthy pregnancy (you know, no drinking, eating healthy foods, walking, etc).  The doctors at the hospital were sympathetic and told me that there is no way to know why it happened but miscarriages are VERY common - something like one in 4 pregnancies.  So common, that every women I’ve talked to about it has either had one or more miscarriages herself, or it has happened to someone close to her (mom, sister, sis in law).  Miscarriages are pretty much one of those unavoidable things in life.  Not quite common cold level, but up there.  And these anti-choice radicals refuse to understand biological and medical reality.  Or any reality at all.  They live in a mental dreamland of Magic!American!Jeezus! and fluffy bunnies.  All the time.

I despair for my country.

Comment #13: MilukFrog  on  10/27  at  12:15 PM

May I recommend the book “When She Woke,” by Hillary Hordan.  Roughly based on The Scarlet Letter, it postulates a dystopian world where people who commit crimes are literally colored - yellow for misdemeanors, blue for child molestation, red for murder.  Guess which color women who get caught having an abortion get?  The society shown by the author takes current trends restricting women’s rights and access to reproductive healthcare and services and takes them to their logical conclusion.  Really, really well done - and even scarier than The Handmaid’s Tale.

I wonder when the meme “the pill prevents implantation” got started.  I knew by the age of 15 (1975) that the pill was meant to suppress ovulation.  No egg, no pregnancy.  I mean, everybody knew that (at least, everyone I knew did). 

This whole “the pill killz baybees” BS makes me so glad that a) I never had children, b) I never took the pill, and c) I’m finally in menopause, so the question becomes moot for me.  Since I no longer have a dog in that fight (i.e., I want the pill so I can “killz my own baybees”), I can tell the truth about how the pill works and then tell them to bite me when they accuse me of wanting to kill babies.

My mother told me that “the truth will always come out,” but damn, I’m starting to wonder ...

Comment #14: Mhorag  on  10/27  at  12:16 PM

Do You Want To Make The Most On Top Affiliate Programs And Become A Super Affiliate? Discover How Ewen Chia Made It And How You Can Make It Too!

Comment #15: Allisa Siono  on  10/27  at  12:24 PM

My idea for a bumper sticker and pro-choice slogan in general:

ABORTION IS NOT A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO BE SOLVED.

I wrote in another comment thread on this blog and will repeat it here: Those of us who support abortion rights have been on the defensive for quite a few years now.  We need to turn it around and start going on offense and force the other side to react to us.

Comment #16: Tommykey  on  10/27  at  12:39 PM

“Also, as a WoC, it is a scary thought that miscarriages could - or would - become criminal investigations.  I had a miscarriage at 4 months in March of this year.  It happened without warning, and I had been working hard to have a healthy pregnancy (you know, no drinking, eating healthy foods, walking, etc).”

[“pro-life” wingnut rant]
...yeah, yeah, sure.  Criminal sluts always claim they were “working hard to have a healthy pregnancy”.  Look lady, your uterus is a crime scene.  You need to prove your “miscarriage” was legit or we’re charging you with first-degree murder, or at least felony child abuse.  Tell your sob story to the judge, slut…

“The doctors at the hospital were sympathetic…”

...of course they were.  No doubt they’re some sort of hippie liberals who love to use “science” and “logic” to help kill innocent, preborn life.  They make any good American want to vomit…

”...and told me that there is no way to know why it happened but miscarriages are VERY common - something like one in 4 pregnancies.”

Blah, blah, blah.  Oh, so now those liberal doctors-of-death claim to have “facts”, facts which “prove” that miscarriage is “very common”?  What blatant lies!  If miscarriages are so common, how come there are so many people on earth?  Can’t refudiate that logic, can you…

You liberal sluts need to wake up and realize that Real, God-Fearing, Heartland Americans are no longer going to put up with your lies.  When we tear down the criminal Kenyan Usurper’s guvmint and start the American Christian Republic of Gilead, you’ll keep your mouth shut, keep your legs together, and keep on the straight-‘n-narrow, or else…
</“pro-life” wingnut rant]

Comment #17: MikeEss  on  10/27  at  12:40 PM

Amanda, I didn’t really follow the quoted text on emergency contraception (EC).  How is that emergency contraception works primarily through preventing ovulation? If EC is 75% effective (got that from Wikipedia), that means that ovulation occurs after intercourse at least 75% of the time. Is that realistic? Or am I missing something? Or both? Based on that logic, if ovulation and fertilization have already occurred than EC should be completely ineffective, right?

Comment #18: penn  on  10/27  at  01:42 PM

It makes me furious that somehow people have been so drawn into backlash rhetoric that it’s now perfectly acceptable, laudable even, to say “Hey, let’s pass laws that make it illegal to not to carry any pregnancy to term, intentionally or accidentally. Or, better yet, let’s make it illegal to not get pregnant BECAUSE MOAR BAIBEES!” in polite company.

I’ve actually heard people flat-out acknowledge that the language in these bills could possibly be used to prosecute miscarriages, but dismiss the fact as irrelevant, ultimately harmless, and perfectly justified collateral damage in the quest to stop sluts from getting abortions. Seriously?

I thought surely this mess would die down once dear departed Bobby Franklin’s voice wasn’t screeching in support, but oh no, he’s left a nationwide legacy he would be proud of. Fucker.

Comment #19: verity khat  on  10/27  at  01:43 PM

The forced-birth crowd likes fertilization better than implanation as the definition of conception because ... wait for it! ... fertilization honors the sperm as at least the equal if not the superior of the egg.  Whereas implanation is all about female work, the uterine wall, a woman deserving the credit.  Nah, that can’t be the definition of conception. 

As Mighty Ponygirl said, it’s their old favorite the homunculus.  They’d love to say that spermatozoan = person, except that definition might limit dudes being free to whack off a holocaust.  Fertilization as the starting point of personhood maximizes male control over women.

Comment #20: Unree  on  10/27  at  01:53 PM

Penn—As I understand it, a woman is fertile for one day a month and then sperm live inside a woman for several days and if the egg day is during the sperms life-span, then pregnancy can occur. So if sperm live four days than w/o any contraception there are four days where if the woman has sex, she can get pregnant. EC prevents ovulation so if a woman takes it after the day she has she will only get pregnant if that day is her egg day so pregnancy likelihood is reduced from 4 days to one day or a reduction of 75%. This is oversimplified-sperm life expectancy is sort of a bell curve among other things, but the lower effectiveness of EC is actually supporting evidence that implantation is not prevented by hormonal contraception.

Comment #21: alysia  on  10/27  at  02:20 PM

A nice little paper about levonorgestrel EC:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17241840


If I recall correctly, last time I did a lit review for the pill and its effect on implantation the data suggesting it might cause difficulty with implantation was done with rabbits.  Studies with humans showed no effect.  I’m not going to dredge up the articles again.

Comment #22: D  on  10/27  at  02:26 PM

alysia, I think part of it is my pre-conceived notions. I had always assumed that the “usual’ sequence was ovulation-sex-fertilization-implantation. Yeah, sperm can live up to four days, but most are dead with a day or two. It also “seems” like the odds of a 4 day old sperm bumping into a just released ovum and fertilizing it would be low. You’d think the sperm at that point would be scattered about or stuck or something. But, it’s perfectly likely that reality (once again) does not conform to my pre-conceived notions.

I would argue that the lower effectiveness of EC isn’t actually supporting evidence that implantation is not prevented by hormonal contraception because we’d expect that either way. At a certain point it’s too late and implantation has already occurred (since it should occur within about 24 hours of fertilization).

Comment #23: penn  on  10/27  at  02:38 PM

I think it’s important that people know the science, and that it is useful when you have it on your side, but in a arena of philosophy, emotion, and morals, I don’t think just the science will cut it even in the long term.

Things like rights and equality don’t come from science but from ideology, and abortion is about ideology, whether we think that it is right or wrong that people control what happens in their bodies and control their act of reproduction. The people who think abortion is wrong because of what they think happens to a fertilized egg, even if scientifically wrong, already don’t care about the person that egg is in, and the challenge is to get them to care about the person who has a fertilized egg in them, or who is pregnant, to shift their focus.

Comment #24: R.T.  on  10/27  at  04:36 PM

@penn,

It’s fertilization that takes ~24 hrs and, once that’s done, it takes another 5-7 days before implantation begins.

Also, the lower effectiveness of the LNG-EC (progestin EC pill) [the 75% efficacy is an overestimation; it’s closer to 68%] is evidence that it has no effect on implantation. Think of it this way: 103 women take LNG-EC before ovulation, 16 pregnancies are expected and no pregnancy occurs . 45 women take LNG-EC on the day of ovulation or thereafter, 8.7 pregnancies are expected and 8 pregnancies occur.

The efficacy when used before ovulation was 100%. On the contrary, when used after ovulation has occurred, the number of observed and expected pregnancies is not statistically different, indicating that no reproductive process subsequent to ovulation is interfered with by LNG-EC. This finding is incompatible with the inhibition of implantation by LNG-EC….

Comment #25: ema  on  10/27  at  04:38 PM

When I took EC in the mid 90s, I was told by the nurse that it would prevent ovulation if I hadn’t ovulated and by causing me to shed my uterine lining, if there was a fertilized egg, it wouldn’t implant and would be flushed out with the blood and what not. Given that I had period-like bleeding for two days, that seemed entirely plausible. Are they now saying that if the egg was fertilized, it wouldn’t cause you to shed your lining? Or only if it had already implanted that it wouldn’t? Or what?

Comment #26: chingona  on  10/27  at  04:39 PM

ema,

The efficacy when used before ovulation was 100%. On the contrary, when used after ovulation has occurred, the number of observed and expected pregnancies is not statistically different, indicating that no reproductive process subsequent to ovulation is interfered with by LNG-EC. This finding is incompatible with the inhibition of implantation by LNG-EC….

Yeah, all of that definitely supports the idea that it prevents ovulation and has no effect on implantation. I just meant that lowered efficacy with time would still be expected even if it did interfere with implantation.  It’s the fact it goes from nearly 100% before ovulation to nearly 0% after ovulation that shows it effects ovulation, but not implantation.

Comment #27: penn  on  10/27  at  04:47 PM

Yeah, the abortion debate is primarily about ideology, but I still think that accurate information is crucial.  There are people who just don’t know this stuff, and if all they hear is wingnuts spreading disinformation, they won’t even really have a fighting chance of making a reasoned, informed decision.  And even if they were never going to make a reasoned, informed decision, their gut reaction will be warped by false information.  Plus, either we think that facts matter or we don’t, and I think there is always a value in loudly proclaiming what we know to be true.

Comment #28: Kit-Kat  on  10/27  at  05:28 PM

Penn brought up a good point here. And I think the TV is to blame. As Alyssa and others have pointed out, a woman is most fertile before she ovulates. Sperm cells have a long lifetime and take time to get to the fallopian tubes. Having sex the day one ovulates would be less likely to result in fertilization than a day or two before. The effectiveness numbers for plan B are perfectly consistent with this.

I think this misconception (forgive the pun) arises from how couples trying to conceive (TTC, in the lingo) talk about ovulation. “Must have sex now, I am ovulating” is a common theme. Actually, they should have had sex two days ago. IRL couples who bother tracking fertility (most do TTC couples do not, at least at first) actually know this fact, but somehow it never makes it into the script.

Interestingly, back in the 1980s, teen folklore was that the pill prevented ovulation by “tricking the body into thinking it’s already pregnant”. This is not quite accurate, the hormone mix is quite different from pregnancy, but we understood the most important part. The Pill suppresses ovulation. Funny we not so bright bunch of kids should know this when so much of the reproductive rights blogosphere seems not to,

They are coming for The Pill next because that was always the plan. The patriarchy wants a full rollback of all that has been gained. They wanna party like it’s 1889.

Comment #29: Bacopa  on  10/27  at  06:33 PM

I think the next target will be expanding hyde and obamacare’s super-hyde ammendment to include birth control so that upstanding american’s don’t have to pay for sluts to kill their own babies. I fear that this is in the not so distant future.

Comment #30: alysia  on  10/27  at  08:21 PM

Efficacy for morning-after in practice (rather than in studies) is a tough one because as a researcher you’re looking for effectiveness preventing pregnancy versus doing nothing, and doing nothing is perfectly effective during a large chunk of each cycle (and for some women fairly effective during the entire cycle). Whereas as a user you’re looking more for the overall number “what are my odds if I take this pill?”

Comment #31: paul  on  10/27  at  09:04 PM

Amanda:

Even if you buy the scientific misinformation that the pill works by killing fertilized eggs, that still wouldn’t make taking it an “abortion”, because pregnancy begins at implantation, not conception.

Beginning of pregnancy controversy:

In 1959, Dr. Bent Boving suggested that the word “conception” should be associated with the process of implantation instead of fertilization.[15] Some thought was given to possible societal consequences, as evidenced by Boving’s statement that “the social advantage of being considered to prevent conception rather than to destroy an established pregnancy could depend on something so simple as a prudent habit of speech.” In 1965, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) adopted Boving’s definition: “conception is the implantation of a fertilized ovum.”[16]

The 1965 ACOG definition was imprecise because, by the time it implants, the zygote is called a blastocyst,[17] so it was clarified in 1972 to “Conception is the implantation of the blastocyst.”[18] Some dictionaries continue to use the definition of conception as the formation of a viable zygote.[19]

Arguing when pregnancy begins is like arguing which is the true god. In people’s heads, they are right, whether they lean on religion or science.

I don’t understand the hoopla, frankly. I like throwing it in a pre-lifer’s face that my mother’s uterine ejected an embryo thanks to the pre-hormone IUD, and I’ve done my share to contribute to the silent holocaust w/Depo Provera and the pill. I would be arguing pregnancy begins after implantation if I thought the chances of the public being okay with outlawing hormonal BC was good. Otherwise talking about pregnant petri dishes is so much fun.

Comment #32: Lesly  on  10/27  at  09:50 PM

Is defining pregnancy really all that difficult?  “Pregnant” is used to describe a woman’s body; it is an adjective specific to her.  Prior to implantation, her body is not actually involved.  Saying that I’m pregnant before implantation is like telling me I’m sick the instant someone sneezes in my face.

Comment #33: burgundy  on  10/27  at  11:27 PM

This is true and accurate, but I think it misses the point. I suspect the rhetorical problem is a bit more nuanced. Everyone in America—including a frightening number of actual scientists—tend to use DNA as a secular word for soul. That’s what these legislative attacks seem to implicitly rely upon. I don’t think focusing on the actual science isn’t going to trump the DNA/soul equivalence to the majority of Americans. The question is what will.

Comment #34: cailara  on  10/28  at  01:58 AM

But we all gotta remember that us Gen X folks had parents who might have had Copper 7 or Lippes loop IUD’s back in the seventies and eighties. Copper 7 and the Lippes impeded sperm to prevent fertilization, but they mostly prevented implantation.

Maybe that’s what the wingnuts are remembering.

Comment #35: Bacopa  on  10/28  at  02:33 AM

Good to know about this.

Shaw Hardwood Flooring

Comment #36: harleyshenoy  on  10/28  at  04:00 AM

. . . pregnancy begins at implantation, not conception. . .  life begins at conception . . .

So very, very wrong.  Everybody knows that pregnancy and life begins at ejaculation.

Comment #37: rain  on  10/28  at  11:52 AM

I think it’s key to use conditionals when you talk about this. The pill does alter the lining of the uterus in a way that could or might prevent implantation (which is not the same thing as killing eggs) IF there were to be a fertilized egg in that uterus (which there won’t because the regular pill user won’t be ovulating). But it is the fact that it does change the uterus that anti-choicers will use to make the pill illegal, so we can’t ignore the fact that it does. Just be clear that it’s a hypothetical, theoretical, might.

Comment #38: Holly Derr  on  10/28  at  01:49 PM

Here’s how Planned Parenthood puts it: “The hormones also thin the lining of the uterus. In theory, this could prevent pregnancy by keeping a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus.”

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control/birth-control-pill-4228.htm

Comment #39: Holly Derr  on  10/28  at  01:56 PM

We know that most women who take the Pill have lighter periods, true. But do women who naturally have light periods have trouble getting a zygote to implant?

Comment #40: Maureen  on  10/28  at  03:17 PM

@ burgundy (#33):
I agree, though I don’t think I’d want to say a woman’s body isn’t involved post-fertilization of one of her eggs and pre-implantation thereof, lest it be misused as an “admission” that a zygote isn’t just another part of her body. Your blood floats just as freely within your body as an egg making its way along a tube, fertilized or not, and it’s definitely part of your body.

Also, with reference to cailara’s comment at 34: my new favorite counter-example to DNA essentialism is genetic chimerism, where somebody has two full sets of DNA, presumably without being two people or having two souls. Also, I don’t think anti-choicers would be okay with someone aborting a pregnancy even if we were somehow able to create a perfect replica of someone’s DNA and implant it in their uterus.

Comment #41: lapidarion  on  10/28  at  05:32 PM

lapidarion: I agree. But I think that’s too nuanced for them. You have to fight fire with fire, not fire with sophistication.

Comment #42: cailara  on  10/28  at  09:59 PM

Also, aside from simple common sense, twinning occurs typically 5-9 days after conception. Does that mean twins only get half a soul each?

Comment #43: t-ster  on  10/30  at  04:30 PM
Page 1 of 1 pages
Commenting is not available in this channel entry.