Hm.  And here I thought we’d be getting him in Allenwood.

North Carolina.  A fate worse than death!

This is the kind of thing that really makes you think about crime and punishment. 

Is being deprived of fully enjoying the last years of his life punishment enough for the billions he stole? 

Is being left alive to contemplate his crimes and their effect on others sufficient?  (Not that I believe for a nanosecond that an asshole as morally empty as Madoff would really think about what he did and experience anything that would even vaguely resemble shame regarding what he did…)

Capital Punishment would be of no benefit in his case.  Goddammit!

How does one adequately discourage the next Charles Keating / Ken Lay / Bernie Madoff?...

He deserves even worse.

Among those wiped out by Madoff: Elie “Wiesel, 80, who survived the Holocaust and went on to become a novelist and political activist, lost $15.2 million of his charity’s money, and much of his personal fortune, in Madoff’s alleged Ponzi scheme.”

Disgusting.

“Nobel Peace Prize-winner Elie Wiesel ripped into Bernie Madoff this morning—saying the financier who allegedly ripped off investors to the tune of $50 billion is a “psychopath.”

“He should be put in a solitary cell with a screen, and on the screen, for at least five years of his life, [would be] pictures of his victims,” said Wiesel.

He said Madoff would be reminded to “look what you have done to this old lady. Look what would have done to this child.”

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02262009/news/regionalnews/holocaust_hero_elie_wiesel_slams_madoff_157082.htm

There’s no bigger class warrior around than me, ideologically (though I probably have equals on this site), but I cannot gain any glee, or even a sardonic chuckle, at Madoff’s fate. Nor do I have any comment on its possible inadequacy, besides the fact that sufficient theft should grant the death penalty (given we apply it at all, it had better apply to rich white people). Celebrating Madoff’s downfall is a bit like celebrating the death of a single Nazi soldier in WWII: it betrays a lack of scale. If Madoff were the first of many to go, and firing squads and clean elections and declassification were all around the corner, sure, I’d give a cheer. But, eh. Wake me when the revolution starts.*

(*Yes, yes, yes I’m fully aware of the irony of waiting for someone else to start the revolution—you get my point.)

All I know is that if he gets stabbed in prison I’m sending someone a case of cigarettes.

I know this makes me a horrible person.

I know I’m giving into petty revenge.

I know.

I know I should probably also include toiletries and porn in the parcel.

Like all prisoners, corrections officers will shine a light in his face twice in the middle of the night as part of six or seven daily checks.

Setting aside Madoff for a moment, I find this disturbing.  I doubt that corrections officers are shining a light in prisoners’ faces twice a night to check on them, but rather are doing so to inflict some additional punishment upon them

I think it depends.  If they’re going into his cell, pulling off the covers, and shining a flashlight into his eyes, then, yes, that’s clearly about punishing him.  If they’re just shining a light into his cell to make sure he’s there, I don’t think it’s that bad.  Although it kind of seems like overkill.  When’s the last time someone’s escaped from that prison?

I dunno. this glee at Madoff’s prison time makes me uncomfortable.

Not so much anyone here, just in general.

For one, the American Prison System is such that it really should not be inflicted upon anyone. But barring radical reform, that won’t change.

Another issue I have is that it’s 150 years. Obviously outside his life span. I’m fine with the actual situation of him spending every last remaining day of his life in prison, but the idea that we would assign that beforehand, not even a vaporous offer of parole, seems unpleasant to me. If you said he was elligible for parole right now, and for every year from now through the end of his life, he applied and was rejected, I would have no problem accepting it. The chance not even existing kind of upsets me for nebulous justice reasons that aren’t specific to this case.

As a specific issue, this seems unconscionably circumstance driven: that is, if we weren’t in a recession with people going broke from unrelated things, this example would not be getting made of him. He’d spend 10 years in Club Fed. We’d gnash our teeth at the injustice of it (ruined people committing suicide and the destruction of the Wiesel Foundation are in fact outrages that need answering) and he’d be the go-to punchline representing unchecked greed for Late Night television hosts for years, and the news would move on to something else. He would not be sentenced to 150 years in prison. It would not be a maximum security facility. He would be allowed conjugal visits. The Recession turned a greedy criminal who unarguably deserves punishment into someone more vilified than a literal terrorist (ie that fucker who shot George Tiller).

That said, I still want him to spend the rest of his life in prison. I just think we aren’t doing that right.

Although it kind of seems like overkill.  When’s the last time someone’s escaped from that prison?

This is why it’s probably a good thing you or Thom don’t run a prison.  Prisons, for the most part, hold criminals.  Many of them are career criminals.  These guys are locked up twenty-three hours a day in maximum security.  I don’t know what the security level is where Madoff is going.

Lock a guy up for that long, and he’s going to get bored.  He’s going to do what any normal, thinking mammal will do in that situation:  He’s going to look for a way to assuage the boredom and/or get out.  These guys have nothing to do twenty-three hours a day but think of ways to get one over on the guards.

They shine the light on the face so they aren’t just checking for forms in a bed.  Anybody can rig up a form in a bed.  They want to make sure who is supposed to be there is there.  I don’t know how they do it, and I don’t care.  You get sentenced as a criminal, you give up some rights and freedoms, and rightly so.  Unfortunately for the guy in bed, others before him have gotten out or attempted to get out and so they need to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

When you start getting complacent is when the shit hits the fan.  Happens in every job.  Probably the reason nobody has escaped recently is that the prison officials are doing their jobs to the letter every day.

He launched in inside attack on the US economy - why isn’t he in supermax with the Unibomber?  He did more damage to America than the unibomber ever did.

When’s the last time someone’s escaped from that prison?

It isn’t necessarily about escape - it is about being in your bunk when you are supposed to be, not off in a corner doing what have you.

I think he ought to be forced to work for one of the charities he defrauded…forever.

That would work, Magis, except for that some of the philanthropic organizations he defrauded no longer exist to work for because he evaporated so much of their money. 

The Wikipedia article suggests that he might have gotten a much lighter sentence but he refused to cooperate with the prosecution, possibly because he was protecting accomplices.  It does seem unfair that he was basically made an example of, but that’s what happens when previously lax authorities suddenly decide they have to start cracking down.  It was a risk every last one of those con men took when they decided to spend decades (decades!) ripping people off.  If he were able to give the money back (probably with something extra on top, to cover the incidental expenses that are the consequences of being royally screwed) then that would go a long way to fixing what he broke, and commuting his sentence to service would be reasonable and just.  But he can’t fix what he broke, so what else is there to do?

I take some comfort in the fact that some of the people who took a shellacking when Madoff’s scheme collapsed were aware that something fishy was going on but thought it was insider trading.

the American Prison System is such that it really should not be inflicted upon anyone.

This, basically.

Madoff’s a scumbag, and there should be consequences for his actions, but does the punishment fit the crime? I know some of you are figuring there’s lots of folks in the US who do lesser crimes and have worse punishments, but let’s be serious: they don’t deserve those punishments.

I dunno. I won’t be shedding any tears for Bernie Madoff, but I can’t quite take pleasure in the fact that some prison guard is going to shine a light in his face twice nightly. Maybe I’m just not very good at Schadenfreude.

I have to admit that finding too much sympathy for Madoff’s victims is hard to do.  Did they honestly think that Madoff was some kind of uber-genius who could make profits when every other fund on the planet was losing money?  And, many of these people who didn’t actually lose money because they withdrew more than they put in, still want more money because they claim the interest they earned belongs to them!  Talk about nerve.

Madoff is being punished not just for what he did but because he is protecting other guilty parties.  There is little doubt that his wife and sons are not stupid enough to have missed the Ponzi scheme.  IMHO, they knew about it and they tried to hide the profits before Madoff turned himself in. 

And North Carolina may only be a temporary way point for Madoff.  He could still end up in NY.  His final destination (I mean other than hell) still hasn’t been decided.

Madoff’s a scumbag, and there should be consequences for his actions, but does the punishment fit the crime? I know some of you are figuring there’s lots of folks in the US who do lesser crimes and have worse punishments, but let’s be serious: they don’t deserve those punishments.

Really? I think American prisons are reasonably safe for most prisoners.  They are required to do a reasonable amount of work, get the opportunity for exercise, have access to a library, are given sufficient food, have access to education and rehabilitation programs, are provided free medical care.  They are locked up with violent people but then very few people go to prison for being nice, gentle, and kind. 

US Federal prisons hold about 200,000 prisoners but the number of homicides per year is around 10.  I think, given the violent nature of the people who are in prison, that is not a horrible number.

Maybe I’m just being vindictive, but I’m always reminded of a Chinese anti-corruption measure from the Qing dynasty: Exceed a certain corruption level and the state will also impoverish your entire family, the idea being to “teach your children what it’s like to be poor”.  I’m not sure that it fits the crime, but its definitely a better deterrent than the death penalty…

It annoys me to no end that he is alone at his cell. Madoff is the “rich Liddie England”, only one punished for a crime thousands did during the Bush/Dick years.

When I was locked in the loony bin in hospital, we got flashlights in the face every hour. The hallway lights were always on and very bright. And I wasn’t allowed to be alone in the same room with an opposite gendered person.

Echoing a few other comments, I find the rampant glee by the OP and first few commenters to be in poor taste, all things considered.

First, gloating about adverse prison conditions for rich white men is rather hypocritical when compared to previous posts condemning prison conditions for non-rich and/or non-white men.  If it’s wrong for one, it’s wrong for the other.  (Though I was rather amused by reference to the lack of designer soaps.)

Second, many other people whose crimes far outweigh Madoff’s are running around free (and even continuing to profit), perhaps simply because their crimes are less “personal”.  A lot of people much less famous than Elie Wiesel got screwed by the engineered financial collapse, in which Madoff was just a more-publicized player.  Gloating over Madoff is, to quote a previous poster:

is a bit like celebrating the death of a single Nazi soldier in WWII: it betrays a lack of scale.

I think it’s pretty apparent that, Enron-style, people are making the argument that the guilty have been punished and it’s time to move on and forgot all that unpleasant stuff that happened, at least until the next financial disaster, when we’ll imprison one or two more of the elites as scapegoats for populist anger.

Am I happy that Madoff is getting some stiff punishment for his blatant misconduct and willful disregard of the impact of his actions (including protecting accomplices)?  Sure.  But let’s not delude ourselves that this is anything more meaningful than a drama designed to satisfy us plebes.

Love the victim blaming from Tom P.

Yeah, those who know next to nothing about finance, shouldn’t trust a financial wizard with decades of experience because their investments paid off. Huh?

Wiesel, for one, has stated that he relied on Madoff not only because of endorsements from trusted friends, but also because Madoff was known far and wide for his “charitable” contributions.

But nice blaming of a Holecaust victim, whose personal fortune and charity have been wiped out.

I doubt many of Madoff’s victims are getting a good night sleep anytime soon! I say wake that cretan up 4 times a night by banging pots & pans next to his head. Those of you who have such misplaced sympathy for that monster have no idea the damage he did. No idea!

How does one adequately discourage the next Charles Keating / Ken Lay / Bernie Madoff?…

One doesn’t.  That’s why we need laws and enforcement to protect us from these sociopaths.  Something that morons who still worship the Almighty Free Market need to have drilled into their thick skulls.

Those of you who have such misplaced sympathy for that monster have no idea the damage he did. No idea!

I would have the same concerns, verbatim, if he were convicted of multiple counts of child murder and sexual assault.

it isn’t misplaced sympathy. It’s concern for human dignity, which is removed entirely from who he is as a person.