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Next entry: Florida U.S. Congressional candidate Larry ‘homo-sex w/Obama’ Sinclair writes me Previous entry: FOTF’s Citizenlink blog: GLSEN is sexualizing Santa

Well, okay, but it’s still so tone deaf

Kate Harding has an excellent analysis of the outcry by organizations like NOW and feminists like Gloria Steinem against the proposed 5% tax on elective cosmetic surgery that would be used to finance health care reform.  What seems like a good idea on its face—-tax a luxury to pay for a necessity—-is more complicated when you look at it.  Kate really sheds light on all the complications.  The reason that such mainstay feminists are speaking out is because the vast majority of people who use plastic surgery (86%) are women.  And even though we think of plastic surgery as a rich woman’s hobby, in fact a surprising percentage of women who get it don’t make that much money.

As Laurie Essig recently wrote in True/Slant, “cosmetic surgery is now primarily consumed not by the rich, but by the working and lower-middle classes, sometimes even by the poor. According to the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery (ASAPS), about 1/3 of cosmetic surgery is consumed by people who make less than $30,000 a year. About 70% of it is consumed by people who make less than $60,000 a year.”

But here’s the thing: 78% of people who get cosmetic surgery are white.  So there’s a huge racial gap here.  I’m inclined to wonder if the rates of plastic surgery in the lower income brackets are so high because young, poor, white sex workers are getting breast implants and other procedures so they can boost their income.  If so, I’m wary of protecting plastic surgery at the cost of making more health care available to all.  Not because I have a problem with women who feel they need to get plastic surgery to do sex work, but because I think that the return on their investment is so low that the government really should consider discouraging it like they do other sham investments.  Those breast implants you pay $8,000 for on credit that will mean they eventually end up costing you two to three times that much are going to require so much money to be paid for that the few extra years you get out of sex work for them will probably be eaten up paying them off. 

But that’s just a theory.  The larger point is that I just really question the judgment of feminists who are making an issue out of this.  Not that their arguments about the sexist catch-22 facing middle class white women are wrong.  But organized, mainstream feminism has a bad reputation as a movement that puts the needs of middle class, middle aged white women before all other concerns.  And the health care reform debate intersecting with feminism keeps threatening to dredge up those concerns about organized, mainstream feminism, even though the primary beneficiaries of health care reform, at least at first, will be lower income women.  Health care reform should be an opportunity to create alliances between feminists fighting to protect women’s rights in health care and activists working on behalf of people of color and lower income people—-who have the worst health outcomes because they have the least access to health care—-and so far that’s worked out okay.  I was worried about the Stupak-Pitts amendment situation, because there is a constant danger that the outcry over that will overshadow equally pressing needs that lower income women have for access to all kinds of reproductive health care, including prenatal care, but so far that hasn’t been much of a problem.  And that’s because the Stupak-Pitts amendment is, above all other things, an attack on lower class women’s access to reproductive health care.  (Women whose employers pay their health insurance or who don’t need huge subsidies can probably pay the out of pocket cost for an abortion that’s not covered.  They’re like $500.)  But this outcry over a plastic surgery tax that would basically be taxing privileged women so that much less privileged people can access basic health care?  Tone deaf.

As much as I absorb the intellectual arguments about the sexism lurking behind this tax, I just don’t care.  I think there are way more pressing concerns that are fed in large part by sexism that need to be addressed, and we need money to do it.  The feminization of poverty, for instance, is a much bigger and more pressing issue—-women are more likely to be poor and more likely to be supporting dependents while poor than men.  And for those women, regular access to basic health care matters more than access to plastic surgery.  Yes, even for employment.  Yes, even when we’re talking about how women are dinged for looking old when looking for work.  Nothing is more fatal to your looks than constant stress, poor access to health care that leads to more illness, and poor nutrition.  Fixing those issues would do more for women looking younger and more hireable than anything else.  Plus, you’d have the added bonus of the fact that less stressed out, less sick, less harried woman of any age is more likely to do well in an interview and start climbing her way up the ladder.  Remember, almost any concern that affects middle class white woman is a double down concern if you’re poor or a woman of color, and that includes these age concerns.  And lower income women and women of color aren’t using plastic surgery as a quick fix, making the plastic surgery tax a rather narrow concern.

Instead of asking for fewer taxes on a relatively privileged group of women, may I suggest an alternative?  How about an equivalency tax that affects men, so that everyone is doing their share to pay for health care?  If plastic surgery is a medical luxury used mostly by women, then erectile dysfunction drugs can be taxed in fairness, as a lifestyle improvement drug that, while absolutely important, is not as necessary as more basic forms of health care.  That way, we can consider these to be taxes on medical care that is important but elective, and take some of the shame out of the whole thing, while also acknowledging that most people who use these forms of health care can afford to pay a little more for them.  (Marc suggested the Viagra tax. I can’t take credit for the idea.) 

 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 05:51 PM • (56) Comments

I tore up my NOW card after they lied about Obama’s abortion stance during the primaries and a local NOW leader told me right to my face that Hillary “deserved” the Presidency because black men got the vote before white women did.  They have rightfully earned a lot of their reputation as a bastion of privilege and obliviousness to the concerns of non-rich and/or non-white women. 

IMHO, the best thing about the proposed reform is it will end gender rating on insurance policies.  Nearly all of the disparity in costs of insurance between 18 to 45 year old women and their male counterparts is due to our reproductive organs.  And nearly all of the procedures women require that insurance companies use to justify charging us higher premiums relate directly to sexual activity with men.  Why must ALL women subsidize the ability of men to have sex with women and become (or avoid becoming) fathers?  Senator Kyl may not need maternity coverage, but his wife did when she gave birth to their two children.

Comment #1: DonnaDiva  on  12/05  at  06:59 PM

78% of people who get cosmetic surgery are white. So there’s a huge racial gap here.

About 79.8% of Americans are white. (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html) The gap would appear to be vanishingly near to zero, and biased against white people.

Comment #2: Alkaloid  on  12/05  at  07:24 PM

The viagra tax really seems to contradict the argument that women’s reproductive health is not optional health care.  Viagra treats a men’s reproductive health problem.  But yes to the “elective medical care in general” tax.  It’s sort of like a rationing scheme that doesn’t make you think of death panels.  It does, unfortunately, invite the whole “Do you REALLY need antidepressants?” thing back in. 

The best way I can see it working is on a case-by-case scenario (that actually considers things like quality of life), like when you appeal your insurance’s coverage decisions.

Comment #3: saraeanderson  on  12/05  at  07:34 PM

So, again the wealthiest 1% of America escape without paying their fair share for the benefits they get from the government, while some other group gets to pay more so we can have some lame attempt at healthcare reform.  And all we have to do is throw some more proles under the bus.

Well, at least Rich White Men will be spared from the pain of having to be good citizens, while those frivolous women pay more for their vanity.

The Gilded Age has nothing on the “Naughts”...

And Amanda, how could you seriously suggest that boner pills be taxed?  Everyone knows America is the World’s Penis, and if American penis owners don’t have untaxed access to the dick-hardening goods, we’ll all become gay or something.  I’m sure I heard Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh explain those “hard” truths…

Comment #4: MikeEss  on  12/05  at  07:34 PM

But organized, mainstream feminism has a bad reputation as a movement that puts the needs of middle class, middle aged white women before all other concerns.

I thought the mainstream Feminist movement put most of its energy into keeping abortion legal. That is hardly a middle-aged woman’s concern.

Comment #5: KMTBERRY  on  12/05  at  07:47 PM

Classic natural wedge issue.  There are many of them when it comes to different groups of women, part of which makes it hard to have a coherent feminist movement, I’ve always believed.

I smiled at the whole breast augmentation for job prospects, because there’s a theme on tv about servers and sex workers getting breast implants, best done in The Wire when Sonja Sohn interviewed a sex worker for a crime, if I remember correctly.

At this point in the health care reform bill, I’ve given up on any real progress—I’m just going for having a legal statement and sentiment that sez that people have a right to effective insurance so that when it’s not there, people can start outflanking the reargaurd, which has fought to ensure that power doesn’t rest in the end user’s hand.  Medicaid rather than Medicare.  A bunch of rules an regulation that probably will only be honored in the breach.  So forth and on.  It’s just a first step while public opinion solidifies into a force that can’t be ignored.

Comment #6: shah8  on  12/05  at  08:15 PM

Perhaps, Alk, but the point still stands: this reads like it’s making white middle class women’s issues more important than other people’s.

Comment #7: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/05  at  08:32 PM

Point taken, KMT, but unfortunately, the abortion rights movement is older on average than it should be, especially considering who gets abortions.  And part of the problem is the perception that this is not an inclusive movement.

Comment #8: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/05  at  08:34 PM

Thank you for writing this.  That is all.

Oh, except for one thing: Alkaloid, take a closer look at that link.  80% of America is not white - or it is, if you count Hispanic, Middle Eastern, and a bunch of others as “white”...which that census brekdown appears to do.  Note that the racial categorization on that page ends up with percentages far in excess of 100% - which must mean that someone is getting counted double, and I suspect it’s in the way that white and Hispanic get conflated in most demograhic counts (what the heck is “white not Hispanic” anyhow? why is there no “black not Hispanic” or “white not Asian”?)

Comment #9: skylanda  on  12/05  at  08:37 PM

Normally I try to stay out of this debate, but there’s one point I’d draw attention to: if cosmetic surgery gets taxed as an extra, it’s going to cause problems for people who need medical procedures that are usually cosmetic for medical reasons.  My example being breast reduction—some women get it because they don’t like being saggy as they get old, but others (like certain women in my family) got it because they were naturally very, very large all their lives, and it was causing them back problems now.  Certain surgeries designed to make eyes prettier can also help people suffering from certain conditions that make vision difficult (usually as a result of other surgeries that damaged things).  It’s not insurmountable, of course, but it does mean that any such tax would, to be fair, need a provision excepting surgeries done to correct medical problems.

I’ll now re-lurk.

Comment #10: fluffster  on  12/05  at  09:04 PM

Yeah, I don’t know how big a deal this is, but botox that’s used for wrinkle reduction is massively useful for my migraines…

Comment #11: Punditus Maximus  on  12/05  at  09:26 PM

frankly, i thought the whole “plastic surgery tax” was just another red herring, thrown in to confuse the issue. i feel certain all the congresspersons and lobbyists can well afford an additional 5%, for the procedures that keep them looking like vampires.

Comment #12: cpinva  on  12/05  at  09:27 PM

Fluffster, there’s already pretty defined means of deciding what’s medical and what’s cosmetic - believe me, the insurance companies have made sure that they limit their coverage to what is strictly medical.  Those same guidelines can be used to define what is taxable and what is not.  I’m not guaranteeing that this would happen adequately and accurately, but this the medical-v-cosmetic is really not a new conundrum to anyone in that field.

Comment #13: skylanda  on  12/05  at  09:27 PM

Fluffster, you got there just before me, though I was thinking of burn victims rather than breast or optic procedures. The argument still stands however, if this is going to be put through I’d like to see ‘necessary’ procedures such as thouse which counteract physical problems or severe disfigurement classified as ‘non-cosmetic’.

As for the NOW position, it’s things like this which give western feminism a bad name and make it easy for right-wingers to tar it as blind self-interest rather than a moral cause.

Comment #14: Stubborn Kind of Fellow  on  12/05  at  09:28 PM

First, can’t they expend a little more political capital working against the Stupak-Pitts Amendment?

And second, where in this discussion about plastic surgery is concern for women who need it because of the damage done by domestic violence? Or breast cancer? If they want people to support their efforts, they need to pick a better reason than “it’s not fair because it mostly targets women.” That’s too vague and rarely yields results.

Comment #15: DC Fem  on  12/05  at  09:50 PM

Plastic surgeons are not pricing their work at commodity levels. If this tax affects the demand for out-of-pocket-paid surgery in any significant way, they’ll drop their fee schedules and we’ll be right back where we started.

And really. We can’t tax cosmetic surgery because so many poorer people are getting it in a (mostly futile) attempt to improve their economic prospects, we can’t tax gasoline because of all those people who have been saddled with huge commutes (and as a nation we’re entirely unable to rebate such taxes to people who deserve rebates), we can’t tax the rich because that would retard the recovery, we can’t tax carbon because the oil companies would be so sad.

So we’re just going to pass the whole mess down the line.

Comment #16: paul  on  12/05  at  10:18 PM

I’m pretty sure that proposing a tax on Viagra would tip the wingnuts into mass armed rebellion.

Comment #17: cminus  on  12/05  at  10:39 PM

Sex workers aside, I wonder how many poor/lower middle class women are getting cosmetic surgery to improve their social capital.  Women can use their looks to move up the income ladder, either by working in an industry that focuses on appearance or by marrying into money.  Of course, Amanda is right that proper nutrition, less stress, and better health care are far more effective overall.

I don’t like the tax just because it’s another attempt by the government to avoid the real issue.  Our tax system is full of piecemeal taxation schemes to fund x, y, and z.  I pay almost a 50 percent tax on my cellphone and internet service, because the feds decided those things are luxuries and taxed them accordingly.  They need to stop dicking around and just raise the marginal tax rate already.

Comment #18: keshmeshi  on  12/05  at  10:57 PM

And how many of those making less the $30,000 a year are high school and college students getting a present from their parents?  It says individuals and not households so you know there is some number manipulating going on.

Comment #19: Robert  on  12/05  at  11:16 PM

The elective cost of plastic surgery is something that is optional to our lives.  We could debate the sexism that runs through our society but with increasing amounts of men getting elective plastic surgery I find this a fine option to be levied. 

Secondly to go off-topic for a moment but the “Hispanic” distinction was set down by the government over the jury selection pool issue.  On a biological level, Hispanics, middle-eastern, and Mediterraneans are all Caucasian.  But color doesn’t account for culture, just for color.

Comment #20: Xeranar  on  12/06  at  12:19 AM

The 5% tax idea isn’t very useful, and things that can be termed cosmetic or medical can be termed either way if a doctor is willing to write the corresponding justification for the desired treatment.  Botox can stop facial tics and wrinkles as well as migraines and crows feet.  Viagra was intended as a heart medication.  And Rogaine can open capillaries in more areas than vain men’s scalps.  Insurance companies know this and accept it to some degree, provided the customer is a “good one” worth keeping.  Investigations by insurance companies are few and far between, since it’s much cheaper to deny coverage than actually come up with reasons why.  A persistent doctor can win almost every time, and that’s what happens.  All it takes is to have insurance and a doctor willing to play the game.

As for poorer women getting treatments, it happens a lot.  Cosmetic procedures done in medi-spas are quite common, people (and more often women) love to be pampered at such places, and I know I have a different perspective than most (and I’m not going to get into that discussion again) since I’ve met many women who aren’t by any means wealthy but have invested a lot of money into their bodies in the form of tattoos, piercings, hair removal, skin treatments, dental enhancements not related to utility, and many other things that make me wonder how they afford such things although it’s really none of my business.  There’s a lot more than bigger breasts and nosejobs in the great big world of body modification done under a doctor’s supervision.  The prices people pay for hair extensions and coloring at my friend’s salon are… substantial, though again it’s none of my business.  There’s a big subject of women paying a lot to get a look, but the NOW making a stink about this aspect of healthcare legislation is a perfect example of losing sight of the big picture.  Unlike the abortion language, this stuff is small potatoes, or at least it should be.

But as paul said above, it really won’t affect the price other than to have plastic surgeons lower costs or diversify into more procedures where a buck can be made.  A five-percent raise in the price of plastic surgery isn’t such a big deal compared to the annual price increase of most medical insurance plans, so if a 5% tax can fund more needed health insurance for all I’m perfectly okay with that.  I’d rather everyone’s taxes just went up a few percentages to pay for universal single-payer coverage, but that’s not on the table any more than unicorns and leprechauns.

Comment #21: 3letterjon  on  12/06  at  12:25 AM

If this tax affects the demand for out-of-pocket-paid surgery in any significant way, they’ll drop their fee schedules and we’ll be right back where we started.

That would be great. What it means is that patients will pay relatively the same amount of money, doctors will make a little less, and the government will get the benefit of extra revenue. Sounds like a win all around.

Comment #22: Tyro  on  12/06  at  12:38 AM

I wonder how many poor/lower middle class women are getting cosmetic surgery to improve their social capital. 

The physical big markers of class and status revolve around one’s weight and quality of one’s teeth. I have not seen this tax being applied to gastric bypass surgery, dental reconstructive surgery, or orthodontics. Anyone in the lower middle class who thinks that botox, breast implants, or a rhinoplasty are going to improve their social capital is fooling herself.

Comment #23: Tyro  on  12/06  at  12:42 AM

I’d think the equivalent male tax would be on sports cars, Humvees and Harleys. No?

Comment #24: staydaddy  on  12/06  at  12:46 AM

You can boost your legal income with cosmetic surgery.  Studies show that women who are perceived as prettier get paid more.  (Studies show that people who are considered attractive, no matter the sex, get paid more.)

Comment #25: Crissa  on  12/06  at  01:56 AM

On a biological level, Hispanics, middle-eastern, and Mediterraneans are all Caucasian.

There’s no really good biological definition of ‘Caucasian’, anyhow. The original classification was based on phrenology, and professional anthropologists have pretty well given up on the term. At best, I think you could call moderate melanin deficiency a morph or an ecotype of Homo sapiens, or something like that.

I once spoke to an immigrant from Russia who, for a while after she arrived in Canada, wondered why so many people claimed to be from the Caucasus.

Comment #26: Alex, FCD  on  12/06  at  02:31 AM

I’ve heard of quite a few women who work as servers in restaurants getting boob jobs so they get more tips.  And if you’re a server you’re generally not making a whole lot of cash.  It’s just an investment in your future.  So yes, plastic surgery can be related to how much you make. 

Totally unrelated, but to expand on Crissa’s point, attractive people make more money, but prettier women are perceived as more incompetent while attractive men are perceived as more intelligent.  So it would probably depend on what KIND of work you were doing and just who was your boss ...

Comment #27: BonAppetit  on  12/06  at  04:48 AM

Still don’t get the pay upgrades without the… Other upgrades, on average, Bon.

But that’s just by going by studies, which find all sorts of unconscious bias in the job market.

Comment #28: Crissa  on  12/06  at  05:42 AM

I pay almost a 50 percent tax on my cellphone and internet service, because the feds decided those things are luxuries and taxed them accordingly.

I had to pull out my cell phone and internet bills to come up with the figures.  You would need to pay less than 10 dollars a month on both services as an individual to have the federal government taxing you at 50%.  Your state may be taxing you along those lines but that has nothing to do with the federal system.

The whole individual taxation goes to the core of the US tax system.  In Europe income and gas consumption are the main components of taxation.  We on average have half the income tax rates of Europe but make up that loss in income tax in individual taxations that keep the citizenry confused so they don’t complain about their tax rates as they gather up medicare when they age and use social programs including government subsidized loans to pay for their lives. 

This 5% tax on an optional vanity surgery is fair if not just.  The people who claim the “beauty to advance in business” is reasonable but isn’t something you can bank on for the sake of tax exemption.

Comment #29: Xeranar  on  12/06  at  05:52 AM

You and Kate Harding both make excellent points and I agree with pretty much everything you’re saying.  I can’t get myself too worked up against this tax when there are much larger issues at stake.

However, the one thing that irks me about this tax proposal is that it’s a cheap shot at feminine frivolity.  This was proposed because Botox users are an object of scorn in our society and few people are going to defend them.  Why not a tax on something that is equally frivolous but masculine-coded?  Like sports tickets.  Let’s see how that one goes over.

Comment #30: Dr. Confused  on  12/06  at  06:21 AM

Transgendered people. Burn victims. People born with facial deformities. People who need breast reduction because of back problems. “Cosmetic surgery” is an easy target, and it looks like Amanda fell for it.

First, can’t they expend a little more political capital working against the Stupak-Pitts Amendment?

Goodness, no. Why do you suppose this cosmetic surgery tax was put forward if not to distract people’s attention from the important stuff such as Stupak-Pitts or the absence of a public option.

Comment #31: Jesurgislac  on  12/06  at  10:15 AM

People, people: the industry has long-since been able to separate “cosmetic” from “reconstructive.”  They make this separation because insurance already forces them to.  I doubt this will be the issue everyone is cracking it up to be.  People born with facial deformities have never had “cosmetic” surgery to fix it - they have had “reconstructive” surgery.  Same with breast cancer patients with unilateral mastectomy.  Same with burn victims. 

Taxes and subsidies work, respectively, to encourage things that we want to see done and to discourage things we would like to see less of.  Besides the idea that most feminists might ostensibly be on board with discouraging a lower general usage of cosmetic interventions (one might have hoped, eh), there is a technical reason not mentioned here why this tax is a good idea: because we have a finite number of doctors, and because taxing services of those doctors who do frivolous things instead of providing needed care is part of pushing the system back toward providing services that are needed instead of those that are cosmetic but lucrative.  Doctors who give botox because it brings in cash instead of seeing patients for medical issues are a problem - they take up space in medical school and then don’t spend their time providing services to the community that the community needs to stay healthy, instead providing aesthetic services only.  Taxes and subsidies are a long-standing American tradition - we use these to push behaviors that other countries do by command-and-control.  I think this is a perfect way to make these professions less lucrative, and push more doctors back toward providing the service they were asked to provide when they were accepted to medical school: care for people with medical needs.

Also?  This can certainly be spun as an attack on female frivolity.  But I would suggest you look into where the growth industry is in cosmetic procedures before you guess where the reality of the hit is.  Men are a surprising growth sector in this industry…which is too bad for them, ya know.

Comment #32: skylanda  on  12/06  at  10:57 AM

Good point on the Census (except the biological thing).  All these groups are put in as “white”, but for the purposes of our plastic surgery survey, they aren’t.  Good catch on the lying wingnut.

Comment #33: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/06  at  11:26 AM

According to that link, non-Hispanic white people are 65% of the population.  And dropping.

Comment #34: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/06  at  11:27 AM

Transgendered people. Burn victims. People born with facial deformities. People who need breast reduction because of back problems. “Cosmetic surgery” is an easy target, and it looks like Amanda fell for it.

As folks up the post noted, since insurance companies can tell the difference between elective and non-elective cosmetic surgery—-and since the tax explicitly excludes non-elective cases you bring up—-then this is a strawman.  Poor reasoning.  I didn’t “fall” for anything.  And Botox users afraid of age would do well not to compare themselves to burn victims. It makes them sound shallow and frivolous, even as they’re trying to avoid it.

Comment #35: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/06  at  11:29 AM

Plus, attacking me on the particulars of the argument is missing the point.  I agreed that cosmetic surgery was an easy target in part due to sexist stereotypes.  I was just pointing out that priorities are all screwed up.  Feminist organizations would do well to consider the higher rates of STDs and cervical cancer deaths in younger, poorer, non-white women than middle class, relatively well-off women’s access to botox.

Comment #36: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/06  at  11:39 AM

Not to mention the third world-worthy perinatal mortality of urban African American women.  Or the HIV rate around DC that matches the rates of the worst-off African nations. 

Sorry, you’ll gain no traction complaining about botox, face lifts, and tummy tucks.  If you want to talk about women’s health and equality, for gawd’s sake, talk about women’s health and equality.  You know, the things that relate to longevity and quality of life - not providing greater access to services that elevate risk and further buy into the notion that women’s bodies must be altered to be marketable to the corporate world.

Comment #37: skylanda  on  12/06  at  11:47 AM

Fuck all this shit.

Medical procedures are medical procedures.  You and your doctor get to decide whether or not the risk is worth the possible benefits. 

Hyde Amendment needs to be tossed along with Stupak.  If a procedure is legal, it should be covered, plain and simple.  Best by single-payer, but we’re never going to get that despite the fact it’s the only thing that makes sense.

People die on the table getting liposuction.  Not often, but they do die b/c all surgery is risky.  Tara Reid’s stomach is truly frightening b/c her plastic surgeon didn’t know what s/he was doing.  Michael Jackson was a poster child for “do not try this at home even if you have multimillions”.

Plastic surgery is an easy target b/c a lot of it is “elective” and “unnecessary”, but then again, a woman’s life isn’t actually threatened by a dead fetus until it’s gone septic.  An abortion isn’t “necessary” b/c the woman will eventually go into labor and have a still birth or get septic and get a hysterectomy.  So, since some people think abortions are unnecessary, why should they be covered either?  For a woman’s health?  For her mental health?  For her autonomy?  Why should she have the ability to decide what medical procedures are appropriate in her individual situation?

Could it possibly be b/c medicine is a right, not a privilege?  Ha.  Not in this country.  Here it’s a luxury.

We need to stop carving medical procedures/drugs out individually.  Medical care is medical care.  Some people can live better without it, some people would have been better off without doing it, but why the hell should the government or our current insurance overlords get to decide what’s best for any particular person?  It’s between patient and doctor.  That goes for mental health and reproduction/fertility as well as plastics and thoracics.

Fuck it all, if we made the Pentagon account for the trillion dollars they’ve LOST we’d more than be able to pay for free tits and penis expanders for everyone.

Comment #38: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  12/06  at  12:47 PM

Amanda: As folks up the post noted, since insurance companies can tell the difference between elective and non-elective cosmetic surgery—-and since the tax explicitly excludes non-elective cases you bring up—-then this is a strawman.

Ah, I see. I forgot how insurance companies always pay up for the things they are legally supposed to pay up for, and never try to excuse themselves for paying for what they’re not.

I also forgot that this law has been worded so that it clearly and explicitly excluded non-elective cosmetic surgery and ensures that people who really need it won’t have to pay extra taxes on it, especially when “really need it” is such a clear distinction to be made.

I didn’t “fall” for anything. 

Yet here you are, writing this post, successfully distracted from any of the really important issues by defending the decision to ensure that healthcare will be even more expensive and inaccessible. So you may not want to think you’ve been conned, but yeah, you were.

Comment #39: Jesurgislac  on  12/06  at  12:56 PM

Getting the skin surgery after one has lost weight from any bariatric (lap band, gastric bypass, etc) surgery would be cosmetic.  You don’t theoretically need to have the extra and stretched skin taken off - which can very depending on starting weight and how much is lost - but it’s still annoying, from what I’ve heard.  Personally, I think it should be considered reconstructive, no matter how little needs to be done, but most insurance companies won’t cover that cost.  (If you’re morbidly obese and loose a lot of weight, there might be wiggle room, but if you’re not morbidly obese and you loose a fair bit of weight, you probably don’t have a chance.  At least, from what I’ve heard.)

But for most other things cosmetic, not reconstructive, I do think that there should be a tax.  LASIK surgery or those full body scans are elective procedures that could be taxed as well.  Laser hair removal is another elective procedure that really isn’t medically necessary and could fall under the tax.  Does anyone really need liposuction?  Or ass implants?  Or hymen restoration?

Cosmetic surgery is more than just botox and breast implants.

Comment #40: SporkeyO  on  12/06  at  01:27 PM

Caren, I have no idea what you’re arguing.  No one is talking about coverage for cosmetics - no one but no one is planning on covering cosmetics.  It’s a tax, not coverage question.  Nor is it a ban.  Anyone can still do what they want: they would just pay more for it.  They same way you pay tax to buy gas: to pay for the things that gas costs that aren’t obvious. 

Again, I fail to see why people see conflating cosmetics with anything like abortion or any other women’s health need will gain traction.  To me, it sounds like whining.  No one needs eyelid lifts like they need an abortion.  No one needs face lifts like they need pap smears.  There’s a reason these things are called cosmetic: because your health is not improved by them - in fact, your health is at risk (as it is with any medical intervention) for no gain except your looks and some kind of false self-esteem boost.  Trying to put abortion and botox in the same category is somewhere between strange and insulting to women who are at the bare of edge surviving financially and might actually benefit from a public option, no matter how it is funded.

Comment #41: skylanda  on  12/06  at  02:18 PM

P.S. Caren: Aromatherapy is legal.  Rolfing is legal.  Some folks believe in the healing powers of aura cleansing. While we are still struggling to cover basic insurance for kids, should these be covered too??

Comment #42: skylanda  on  12/06  at  02:19 PM

Jer, if it’s such a distraction, why are you paying it any attention?  And it’s not—-I pointed out that the important issues are basic health care, not saving women who get cosmetic surgery money. 

And your strawman argument is getting thinner. The point is that insurance companies, who have a reason not to cover it, get the difference.  Surely the federal government, which is not nearly as toxic, can do it.

Comment #43: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/06  at  02:36 PM

I was going to address the 78% white thing but others have done a better job.  Glad I got to register tho’

Comment #44: jimintampa  on  12/06  at  03:41 PM

Breast-reductions, treatment for burn victims, and breast implants for breast cancer patients are plastic surgery, but not cosmetic surgery.  These genuine medical procedures are called reconstructive surgery.  Of course it’s important to protect these things, but let’s at least realize there is a difference between them and nose jobs.

Studies show that women who are perceived as prettier get paid more.

This is a problem in itself.  And it’s a problem that will not be fixed if we keep feeding into it.  No woman should ever have to get surgery to be successful in a career, outside of a few very narrow career fields.  Any surgery hurts, and it also carries a small risk of health problems or even death.  Women shouldn’t have to risk their health just to get a raise.

Comment #45: bananacat  on  12/06  at  03:43 PM

Jesurgislac-

Yeah, I’m trans, but I’m going to have to side with Amanda on this one. And on multiple levels too. Focus on this is literally sapping about a thousand battles on health care right now considering women have been chosen to be this bill’s “what minority group can conservadems piss on to show how they’re not hippies this week”. It’s such a white, wealthy thing, not only in actua, but more critically, in appearance, which makes feminist groups seem out of touch and more focused on wealthy white women.

And that’s before we get into the fact that cosmetic surgery has a lot of problems. A lot of cosmetic surgery isn’t being used to alleviate gender dissonance or fix people, but is there to hideously transform people into carbon copy distortions and uncanny valleys and is furthermore preying on a slight-of-hand marriage of sexist tropes where women are convinced that the reason they are treated so crappily by sexism is because their tits aren’t big enough. My partner used to write ad copies for these doctors and the shit they emphasize and say in order to play on the insecurity of women in sexist societies was leeching the soul out of her body to have to write. It’s also dangerous and doesn’t actually help in actual reality to the supposed benefits (ease of getting a job, earning more money, etc…)

Even if it inconvenienced me personally as a transwoman I’d gladly see the industry as exists now die if it could as it does far more harm than good, especially in the way it leeches doctors from other medical fields who need them, such as I dunno, reproductive medicine and reinforces the idea that doctors should chase paychecks rather than serve the sick.

And that’s of course before the biggie!

Even if this bill were super sexist, even if the elective cosmetic surgery industry was wholly benign and beneficial, even if this was worthy of getting into a snit over, it’s a 5% tax increase.

That’s nothing. It’s a tiny blip on the map and will hardly stop anyone who was going to get a procedure from getting one and will be pretty much be a wash to the consumer. And seeing how these are expensive procedures usually sold to the rich, this is literally like the kerfuffle early this year where the rich were threatening all sorts of hell because the Bush tax cuts were going to end, restoring a couple of percentage points to their taxes in a couple of years. It’s a wash to the people who are whining or will be effected and frankly we all need to pay our fair share to get a sane health care system. Eventually, if we want real reform, we should all be looking at a 10% increase in all taxes at the very least for actual government guaranteed free health care like is provided in most of the first world countries, because it’s worth it.

5% on luxury procedures for a public option and some necessary reforms to the way insurance companies can treat customers? A steal. We should beg for this tax, even if we are the ones affected by it and by treating this like some affront, NOW really comes off like the anti-tax nutcases and similarly out of touch and insane.

Comment #46: Cerberus  on  12/06  at  04:21 PM

When I was 21, insurance covered my breast augmentation and an eye lift. I had the insurance from my deceased father’s work as long as I was in school.

I have a mild form of a rare congenital defect known as Poland’s Syndrome.  Since the condition causes asymmetry, I was missing pectoral muscles, breast tissue and a rib on my left side, the surgeries were more involved than most breast augmentation surgeries. So the insurance paid for the augmentation which took 3 long painful surgeries. They paid for the eye lift because no matter how many allergy meds or shots I got, I would often wake up with my eyes swollen shut. This would last for hours, sometimes all day.

My point in sharing all of this is that if an insurance company, that has a vested interest in not paying out $60,000 for those surgeries, can tell the difference between elective and non-elective then the government can definitely do it.

Ahh I really wish I still had that insurance. Or any insurance, really.

Comment #47: shakahi  on  12/06  at  07:16 PM

OK seriously, how about we just raise taxes on everybody?  And prioritize our spending of them on stuff so that the lower classes especially get their money’s worth.

We had functional economies at higher tax rates throughout much of this century—-it’s only Reaganomics and suchlike that lured the American people just like a credit card’s false promise of free money with the whole “pay lower taxes, and have more money so you can buy more!” promise, and a shortsighted public bought it hook line and sinker without much thought into what our taxes pay for, and what might be got more efficiently with the streamlining of being purchased and provided on the government’s dime.

This “let’s tax group X” meme is, I suspect, an invitation to argue in circles with everybody in the country until the cows come home on election day 2012.

Comment #48: Kyra  on  12/06  at  07:48 PM

Jer, if it’s such a distraction, why are you paying it any attention? 

Because it bugs me when smart feminists make stupid mistakes like this one.

Comment #49: Jesurgislac  on  12/06  at  08:36 PM

We can make all the limp dick / raging penis jokes we want, but I’m not in favour of taxes on drugs which assist people to Get It On.  Taxing anything that enables healthy sexuality just means increasing the number of bitter, angry people and enriches the hell out of divorce lawyers.

Comment #50: seeker6079  on  12/06  at  08:39 PM

Fuck it all, if we made the Pentagon account for the trillion dollars they’ve LOST we’d more than be able to pay for ...

This.

I frequent a few military technology blogs because that stuff interests me and ties in with my strategic studies hobby.  What’s occasionally infuriating is that when the discussion (rarely) turns to costs restraint it’s always about how the money is better spent in military category A than proposed B.  Only rarely is a voice calling out for less guns more schools ever heard.

Comment #51: seeker6079  on  12/06  at  08:48 PM

<quote>But for most other things cosmetic, not reconstructive, I do think that there should be a tax.  LASIK surgery or those full body scans are elective procedures that could be taxed as well.  Laser hair removal is another elective procedure that really isn’t medically necessary and could fall under the tax.  Does anyone really need liposuction?  Or ass implants?  Or hymen restoration? </quote>

I don’t think there’s always a clear line between cosmetic and medical though.  You mentioned laser hair removal, no its not essential to survival but for the young woman I know with PCOS it improved her psychological wellbeing massively.  People can get along fine wearing glasses or contact lenses but if there’s a simple surgery that actually solves the fundamental problem then why consider it a luxury?

Comment #52: Larrabee  on  12/07  at  08:08 AM

I’m not trans and so I have fairly limited experience with this, but my understanding has been that transfolk who want various types of body modification (from GRS to laser hair removal to implants) have been brickwalled by their insurance companies, on the grounds that those procedures are considered “elective.”

I can’t really say I anticipate insurance companies covering laser hair removal or relatively surface-level procedures like that, but if we’re going to be taxing elective cosmetic surgeries, I’d really, really like to see a provision that classifies procedures performed as part of transition as elective.

Comment #53: rhiain  on  12/07  at  08:24 AM

re: comment: 53 - I’d really, really like to see a provision that classifies procedures performed as part of transition as elective.”

I really really hope that’s a typo.

Very few transpeople can get any coverage for any surgeries or other cosmetic procedures, mainly because insurance companies conveniently consider things like chest surgery elective, as rhiain said. Most transpeople have to pay out of pocket and struggle enough as it is to access treatment. Unless there’s some serious work done on making sure that these kinds of operations are not classified as elective in the same way as lip filler or forehead botox, transpeople are effectively getting punished for needing cosmetic surgery to function in society. But that’s happening already anyway, so… I seriously doubt any sort of health care reform in the US is going to bring about any serious improvements as far as access to health care for transpeople goes. Adding taxes on procedures transpeople need is just business as usual.

Comment #54: catabolic  on  12/07  at  11:22 AM

The popularity of elective plastic surgery is driven by the profit motive of medical entrepreneurs, who sell unnecessary medical treatments that should never be publicly subsidized. If plastic surgeons want to become tit doctors, they should not be able to attend public medical schools, receive public subsidies to pay for their educations or any public transfers of wealth to pay for the elective medical services they sell for profit. Unfortunately, women need to be protected by these medical predators, and a very high tax on elective plastic surgeries like breast augmentation and nose jobs seems to be indicated, as does the banning of teaching their techniques in public medical schools. Eliminating students such an industry attracts from public medical universities is also imperative.

Comment #55: mnsr  on  12/07  at  02:43 PM

mnsr, that may sound peachy in theory, but it does not work in practice.  In practice, the skill set between “cosmetic” and “reconstructive” is the same: breast implants after cancer and breast implants for sex workers are not different skills, they are just different indications.  Some specialist breast cancer surgeons also do very good post-treatment implants because they are, simply, very good breast surgeons.  I see no logistical or moral way to go as far as you suggest - ban cosmetics teaching in med schools, for example - without nixing the very useful overlap that should most certainly exist.  Taxing is a very reasonable middle ground, but banning any training that could be used for cosmetic results in publically funded institutions is not.

Comment #56: skylanda  on  12/07  at  04:19 PM
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