Damn!  They really are trying to offend everybody, but the crackers aren’t they?  At this rate they will be down their in the single digits before long.

This one Jewish guy I knew was really touchy about wealthy-Jew stereotypes. It got to the point where he was ethnically offended when someone referred to a rapacious local sports-team owner, who, yes, happened to be Jewish, as “greedy.”

Is it common for Jewish people to feel this way? Can it be that the rich-Jew stereotype gets thrown around a lot more than I realized, and some Jewish people are sick of it? I’m just speculating. Help me out here.

This really isn’t groundbreaking.  The Republicans have a long history of this.  A pattern emerges of repulsive right-wing behavior, the Republicans find one example (or make one up if they have to) of a liberal or Democrat doing the same thing, and declare that both sides do it, so really, how can they be held accountable?  And the media, desperate for simple he-said/she-said story lines without having to do any actual analysis or reporting, eats it up.

Right wing terrorists on a decades long campaign of violence against women, minorities, and gays?  Bill Ayers made bombs 40 years ago!

Republican after Republican caught up in the lobbying scandals?  William Jefferson took a bribe!

The latest bigot eruption from the right?  Al Sharpton said bad stuff about Jews!

Institutionalized religious absolutism and hatred?  PJ Myers threw out a communion wafer!

Republican obstruction of the business of government?  Dems threatened a filibuster that one time!

PZ Myers, that is.

Can it be that the rich-Jew stereotype gets thrown around a lot more than I realized, and some Jewish people are sick of it?

Not being Jewish, I can’t say how sick of it people are, but I do think it gets thrown around a lot more than you realize.  It’s still a favorite right-wing dogwhistle, but it’s like when they started referring to black people as “Canadians”—unless you can figure it out from the context, you won’t immediately recognize it as a slur.

Ask George Soros about how gets thrown around

Bitter Scribe:

It only bothers me when people seem to think that we have special finanical powers, and therefore cannot be broke or struggling like everyone else.

On the other hand, the idea that a mysterious cabal of Jewish bankers secretly rule the world: endlessly entertaining.

”but it’s like when they started referring to black people as “Canadians”—unless you can figure it out from the context, you won’t immediately recognize it as a slur.”

That’s a new one to me
Can you explain?

They really decided to write that in without thinking that it might piss off Jews?

On the other hand, the idea that a mysterious cabal of Jewish bankers secretly rule the world: endlessly entertaining.

Yeah, that’s almost as good as the Nazis (and others) believing that Jews are behind both capitalism and Bolshevism.

Seriously, though, I’m perfectly prepared to believe that anti-Semitism is more prevalent than I and a lot of others may be aware. Years ago, I edited a community newspaper in a suburb with a substantial Jewish population, and that was eye-opening. My feeling is that a lot of anti-Jewish slurs are the “soft” (i.e., mealymouthed) kind, like JAP. Maybe that’s the way bigots feel comfortable insulting people who are just as smart and successful as they, if not more so.

My feeling is that a lot of anti-Jewish slurs are the “soft” (i.e., mealymouthed) kind, like JAP.

I’m not Jewish, and I don’t claim to speak on anyone’s behalf, but I grew up in an area with a big Jewish population, and the “soft” anti-Semitism was near-constant. It happened with other “soft” forms of racism, too (I remember my high school boyfriend’s one black friend got no end of “jokes” about being black), but it was the slurs about Jews that I heard most often. That may just be because there were more Jews than there were blacks or Latinos…but there were more Asians than Jews, and I didn’t witness as much of that “soft” racism toward Asians. It was a very liberal area, a suburb of Berkeley, so outright racism was very taboo, but it seemed like people considered Jews white enough and non-oppressed enough that it was fine to make horrible jokes about them all the time. In fact, just the other day I saw one of my (non-Jewish) high school friends write on another (Jewish) high school friend’s wall, “I’m on whatever side the Jews aren’t on.” Har har.

Anyway, that’s my anecdata.

Is this like n*****-rigging? Because all through my childhood and early adulthood (when I wasn’t hearing about how the pancake batter got watered because of out scotch heritage) I saw stories and aphorisms about how wealthy people got that way by watching the small expenses at least as much as the big ones*. This kind of stuff was standard Readers Digest filler fare (and might still be, for all I know).  Not once did any of those examples have a jew in them. So either it’s a class of people who just never entered the public eye, or sometime during the past generation it’s become de rigeur to associate every unorthodox quality with some hated ethnic group.

*There’s also some serious question about whether the aphorism is true (hence “penny-wise, pound-foolish”) especially in a familial context, where in the old patriarchal days it was often used to deny minimal necessities to wife and kids while the man splurged on whatever men splurged on, at far greater expense. Which is of course exactly what DeMint is doing by opposing stuff that actually helps average citizens while loving “defense” spending and tax cuts for corporations and rich individuals.

I ‘m Jewish, and work as a tenant advocate in Housing court (in Brooklyn!)where I frequently encounter anti-semitism in the form of people referring to the Jew-landlord or the Jew lawyer.  When I point out to them that I am Jewish and Im helping them out, they usually apologize and say ” I didn’t mean you.”  somehow, it ‘s not that comforting.  KJ

That’s a new one to me
Can you explain?

Here.

This one Jewish guy I knew was really touchy about wealthy-Jew stereotypes. It got to the point where he was ethnically offended when someone referred to a rapacious local sports-team owner, who, yes, happened to be Jewish, as “greedy.”

Is it common for Jewish people to feel this way? Can it be that the rich-Jew stereotype gets thrown around a lot more than I realized, and some Jewish people are sick of it? I’m just speculating. Help me out here.

I’m Jewish, and my mother is always telling me I shouldn’t describe myself as cheap (even though I’m careful about what I spend and don’t like to buy expensive things), because of that stereotype.

Mnemosyne,
thanks

I think that the right has hit the point where Dog Whistles are making them sound nuttier then the flat out racism does

In Reagan’s day they could rail about “welfare queens” or “San Francisco Democrats”, or “Coastal Elites” and every body knew what they were really talking about but had enough plausible deniability for people who would be uncomfortable voting for avowed racists to hold their nose and pull the R lever

When Bush tried to Dog Whistle to the Anti-Abortion crowd with “Dred Scott” and “Hunan-Animal Hybrids” it just left the normal people scratching their heads going “WTF is he talking about?”

If they’re into “Canadians on the jury” territory they may have just decided that they no longer to have anything to loose by dropping “Coastal Elites” and just go for “Jew Bankers” instead

Re: “Canadian”  I always thought that this phenomenon was self-fulfilling. 
The waiter sees African Americans and is unhappy because he thinks they won’t tip well.
Because he believes this, he gives them poor service.
The diners are used to getting poor service, and therefore recognize it when they see it.
Because of this, they tip accordingly.

Both the diner’s belief that they aren’t going to be well-served and the waiter’s belief that they won’t tip well are reinforced and strengthened by this interaction, making them more likely to repeat their behavior next time they are in this situation.

Maybe blacks would expect better service and understand the importance of good tipping if there were more black waiters at the national chain restaurants. They just aren’t there even in areas like where I live where a good portion of the patrons are African-American. Pappas chain restaurants are different, especially Pappadeaux, plenty of black waiters and bartenders there. But the Pappas chain is mostly in Texas and a few other major markets in the south.

That senator could have made his point without mentioning Jews at all. He was either being carelessly racist or expecting to gain something by mentioning Jewish sterotypes.

Yes, I’m sure that the answer to this problem is educating the minority so they stop making white people uncomfortable.

“Is it common for Jewish people to feel this way? Can it be that the rich-Jew stereotype gets thrown around a lot more than I realized, and some Jewish people are sick of it? I’m just speculating. Help me out here.”

OK, I realize that you didn’t mean to be offensive with this comment, but it bugged me.

Yes, it’s true that members of minority groups take issue with the invocation of stereotypes that have been used to vilify and oppress them. This is *still true* when it’s Jews and not black people, gay people, women, homosexuals, or whatever group you (being a Pandagon regular, if I recall correctly) wouldn’t ask this question about.

I mean, all he did was call this woman ‘shrill.’ And she is pretty annoying in the way she argues. Is it common for women to be so sensitive? & etc.

Just a note Jesse - unless you know quite a lot about the personalities involved here, it is quite difficult to follow in that piece who said what and what side they are on.  Who is Jacobson, for example?  I clicked on the link and read his piece and for the life of me I can’t work out whether he is Democrat, Republican, or what.  I know it’s not your job to do the research for me, I just wanted you to know that on the basis of a quick read that was confusing.

Is it common for Jewish people to feel this way? Can it be that the rich-Jew stereotype gets thrown around a lot more than I realized, and some Jewish people are sick of it?

What Mandolin @23 said. I understand that you were genuinely asking, which is why I suppressed my initial nasty response, but, sheez, you know?

And the Republicans can’t figure out why, despite their militaristic and self-serving support of Israel, American Jews vote strongly Democratic.

P.S.: please, nobody feed Eurosabra. “Jews’ special skill with money” is Exhibit A in answering Bitter Scribe’s question.

I’m not an expert on the history of this, so please, someone with more knowledge keep me honest, but I have always found the “Jews are cheap” and “Jews are good with money” to be particularly vile soft bigotry because of the history.

For a big chunk of Western history, it was illegal for Jews to own land, and in parts of Europe, it was at the same time illegal for Christians to lend money. The combination forced a lot of Jews into banking, commerce, and commodity situations (like jewelry) that involved both making money from non-land based enterprises and investments. I’m not sure if the stereotypical emphasis on being doctors and lawyers came about during this period, but it fits the same situation - base your income on something other than land, but that is needed by your neighbors enough that even if they look down on you for being non-Christian, they will leave you alone as useful.

Whether they did well or poorly, they did it because they were forced to for their own survival.

Now that the underlying legal discrimination is all but eliminated, they get ripped on for developing a history and tradition that was forced on them.

I should add that the history I mentioned doesn’t imply that all Jews got wealthy as a result of this - a huge proportion lived in poverty. But like most historically poor people, they were invisible as far as this particular set of stereotypes goes.

mythago, I’m pretty sure Eurosabra was being completely snarky.  S/he has commented here before on Israeli/Palestinian and and other Middle East issues and always seemed to argue in good faith, as I recall…

Ask George Soros about how gets thrown around

Or better yet, check out page 4 of my favourite NRA pamphlet (PDF)—this proposed 2006 publication (which is not a parody) is aimed squarely at the Know-Nothings, and the NRA knows that a little Der Stürmer-style caricaturing goes a long way with that crowd.

Jacobson then links to a video of Al Sharpton, because unlike the nice county chairmen who just think Jews are money-hoarding ghouls, Al Sharpton is a very bad man who thinks that Jews are money-hoarding ghouls.  And that, my friends, is that.

Come on now, I’m sure that our conservative friend Dana finds it a completely compelling argument, which completely exonerates the Republican anti-semites.

Modern conservatives are the masters of the 5-year-old’s excuse for bad behaviour: “But…but ... he did it, too!” Even when he did it decades in the past and has since publically repented, and even when he didn’t do the same thing at all.

Lymis, I’ve also read that part of the reason anti-semitism is so pervasive is that historically, neither Christians nor Muslims were allowed to lend money, so in both cultures it was Jews who ended up filling that niche. Which, of course, is not a popular one.

I have to say this letter sounds particularly bizarre to me (in the UK), because while ‘Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves’ is a well known proverb, I have NEVER once heard it associated with Jews. It’s just good advice for saving money, that your grandparents probably repeat to you. Sure, if you’re anti-semitic and want to gratuitously bring nasty slurs about Jews into the conversation, it fits the stereotype, but really it’s a complete non-sequitur. Why are they mentioning Jews at all? Is the ‘Like the Jews’ part of the saying common in the US? (Or in the UK for that matter and I’ve just been very sheltered…?)

Euro, “special skills with money”?  Really?  Look, I don’t want to ban you, but if you continue with the racist trolling, you’re out.

A lot of the specifically dissident-Republican-no-longer-in-the-party-rooted opposition to Israel or Israeli policy (of the Paul Findley/CNI or Truther flavor) tends to speak of targeted funding of campaigns and lobbyists by a Jewish lobby more cohesive and consistently “on message” than any other political movement in human history, ignoring the obvious splits in ideology and funding in organizations as diverse as AIPAC, ZOA (on the Classic Zionist side, now call right Right) across the spectrum to J Street.

What’s particularly funny about this type of conservative (and this includes Pat Buchanan) is that, for all the dog-whistling they do about AIPAC, and despite all their hatred of Arabs and Muslims, they still can’t break the Republican habit of pretending that the various opportunistic anti-Israel despots and monarchs of the Middle East don’t have an extremely powerful proxy Beltway voice of their own in the oil and energy lobby.

I’m pretty sure Eurosabra was being completely snarky.  S/he has commented here before on Israeli/Palestinian and and other Middle East issues and always seemed to argue in good faith, as I recall…

I also got the sense that Eurosabra was “channeling” what he called the “woolier” end of the conservative anti-semitic spectrum, where this nutty belief in Jewish financial puppet-masters leads to all sorts of insane and contradictory conspiracy theories.

Boss: “You’re Jewish? Why are you working this secretarial job then? I thought all Jews were rich”

Me: “What gives you that idea?”

Boss: “Well, all the really rich people in the world are Jews”

Me: “No they’re not. Bill Gates, Elizabeth II and the Sultan of Brunai are some of the richest people in the world, and none of them are Jewsih”

Boss: “Yeah, but you know what I mean”

==========

But hey, no, we don’t mind when people keep repeating shit like that all the fucking time. That would just be being touchy, wouldn’t it?

Lymis @ #27 & RockSci @ #31:

What you describe is a popular reading of the history, but it’s not entirely accurate, in that the Jews weren’t squeezed into the money lending niche, or chose it out of expediencey, or anything market-forcey-y like that. Jews had enough problems in medieval Europe without volunteering for the unpopular job of loan sharking.

A good example of how Jews ended up in this position is that of England. in the 13th century, Edward I graciously offered the Jewish community an opportunity to do a valuable service to the Crown, by lending him money for the financing of his Crusade. It was an offer they couldn’t, you know, refuse. Rather than repay the money, his successor summarily kicked them all out of England in 1290.

There was no Jewish community in England until Cromwell, also under financial pressure after the Civil War, graciously invited the Jewish community back in, if only they would do this tiny little thing and lend the Parliament some money. The Jews came, and have stayed until the present day, but the money was of course never repaid.

That’s a story that was repeated across Europe, and of course it was more convenient for rulers to demonise the Jews as blood sucking loan sharks than to actually pay their debts, at whatever interest. And that’s really where the stereotype comes from - essentially, extortion by the powers that be, dressed up as a “loan” from a source that was too contemptible to bother dealing fairly with.

They really decided to write that in without thinking that it might piss off Jews?

I’m sure they expect Jews to take it as a compliment.  It’s sort of like high school when everyone assumed the Asian students were the smartest.  They’re not allowed to be offended because being called rich or smart is a compliment, see?  Republicans really just don’t get it when it comes to racism.

I must also leap to the defense of Eurosabra as someone that is telling “the discourse” not participating in it. He/She says” the…oppostion to Israel or Israeli policy… tend to speak of…” and then talks about the reality that the opposition misses. He/She then goes on to talk about “the woolier side of the discourse…”. Which is all the nutty stuff about Zionism being resposible for all the ills in the world.  I was not at all led to believe that he/she endorses any of it.

Of course this is my first post here so I have zero credibilty, but please read Eurosabra’s post a little more closely before you ban him/her.
Thanks!

This is very common on the right wing. Jerry Falwell once said, trying to make some kind of perverse “compliment” that “You have to love the Jews, because a Jew can make more money before 10:00 than we do all day!” His congregation laughed.

I just want to add that it is just as bad and, in a way, anti-semitic to see Israel as always 100% right, good, and pure as it is to see them as the font of all evil in the world. Both tropes are really harmful to a country, whether trotted out by its citizens or foreigners. When the U.S. government sees Israel as always right and refuses to challenge their government even when they are wrong and acting against their best interests, that’s not being a friend and ally, that’s just being a sycophant. That’s what the Bush Administration did.

Strangely, the only other two nations I can think of in recent history that were victims of this trope were the Soviet Union and, of course, the United States.

I think the point about Jewish folks being shoved into occupations due to discrimination, and then being stereotyped due to that shows that with discrimination you can’t win for losing. If you do ‘well’, it’s because all you Jews/Asians/etc are like X, if you do ‘poorly’, it’s because all you Jews/Asians/etc are like Y.

It’s like the paradox of the black person. End up poor, you’re a ‘ghetto thug’. Get a good job, and you’re ‘unqualified’ and stealing the jobs from white people. You can’t win.

Get a good job, and you’re ‘unqualified’ and stealing the jobs from white people.

Ex., their reaction to Barack Obama. He’s done everything Republicans hold to be “responsible” in life—he stayed out of trouble with the law, got a good education, married and STAYED married, raised two children in a loving home, reached the pinnacle of success in his chosen career, yet when you tell them this they say it was all because of “Affirmative Action”. Because black guys become President of the Harvard Law Review, U.S. Senator, and President all the time, you see! Just cause their black! /snark

Yes, I’m sure that the answer to this problem is educating the minority so they stop making white people uncomfortable.

I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that’s not what Bacopa was saying.  More like, “Since black people are shut out of these food service jobs that actually pay pretty well once you include tips, they don’t necessarily get the underlying social contract like white people who have worked those jobs/know people who’ve worked those jobs do.  If employers would stop being assholes and hire people for those jobs regardless of race, the problem would solve itself.”

“He’s done everything Republicans hold to be “responsible” in life…”

...except be a Republican, which in their eyes is a sin that cannot be forgiven…

Mnemosyne:

Yup.  But that still assumes that black people are ignorant about tipping, which I think is untrue, and also that more black people should be given jobs as wait staff, which are generally pretty shitty jobs with an unsteady income stream and very little opportunity for advancement.

Jesse, I don’t really know much about Jacobson, but I really don’t see where you get off deciding for people what they should be offended by.  I’m speaking on my own behalf and as a Jew.  And I know a lot of Jews are probably going to get behind you on this, but it’s usually a good policy to let people decide for themselves what or who they are offended by. 

What Merwin said was certaingly anti-semitic from my perspective.  But I can also sympathize doesn’t want to get crazy about Merwin’s use of an old anti-semitic stereotype because, in the context of Sharpton arguably encouraging people to riot on motherfuckers because they are greedy diamond merchants, Merwin’s use of an anti-Semitic stereotype to make an idiotic point is really not the priority.  And look, whatever your view on Israel and Zionism and all that jazz, it’s all very much a matter of friggin life and death to a lot of Jews.  To them, policies that have an impact on this crucial issue are gonna be of much more interest than some ignorant schmuck in state politics. 

None of this excuses Merwin, but it’s usually best to let people decide for themselves what they should get upset about.

Thanks Mnemosyne for your clarification of my point. I was indeed suggesting that hiring discrimination against blacks might be part of the whole “blacks tip badly” complex. I probably should have added that I’m not really sure blacks tip that much less than other races. It may just be an unfounded racist trope. But suppose they do tip less: Why would that be so? I think part of the explaination might be that hiring discrimination has prevented African-Americans from understanding some of the aspects of tipping. Nothing will make you a good tipper like having a relative who works as a waiter.

And bellacoker, your whole argument seems to have been reduced to “Well, waiting is a shitty job anyway”. Yes, waiting has its problems and challenges, but that does not make job discrimination OK. Besides, being a waiter may be the perfect match for someone, and the pay can be very good sometimes.

I do not disparage any kind of hard work. I fear we have created a culture of inflated expectations. We teach children they are all going to be rock stars. While I agree that children need to have high expectations of themselves, I also think we have inflated expectations too high so that people who don’t rise to the top of the heap are considered losers. We can’t ALL rise to the top, and no one should be educated to think he’s a loser because of that. There is honor in all work, however humble.

Waiting isn’t the greatest job in the world, but if you just have a high school diploma and haven’t learned a trade, well, you can’t find a job at the car assembly plant anymore, so…

My argument is:  It is problematic to assume that minorities don’t understand the importance of good tipping or any other concept, or that they need to work in service jobs so they can learn how to interact with white people.

There probably is a good deal of expectation inflation which makes people unhappy with their situation, but it does not concern me as much as the education inflation which necessitates a college degree or years of experience for every position that pays anything close to a living wage without the employer having to prove that education actually makes a person more qualified. 

It is all well and good to honor humble work and be content with our lot, as long as we can also be angry about the system which keeps poor people poor and uneducated people uneducated so their work benefits richer, more well-educated people far up the social ladder.

I tend to think that efforts to delimit Gentile privilege are well-intentioned and useful but a little precious in America nowadays, and not all that pertinent. Certainly I can see how someone from a more, I guess, blatantly oppressed group being a little hostile towards the idea. I forget how other we still are, even though I couldn’t really say with a straight face that I am not perceived as white. I guess I gent insulated from a lot of it by living in New York.

Frankly, when I think of stereotypes about Jews, I don’t think of “cheap,” I think of either “sexually repressed” or “killing Christian babies to drink their blood.”

Bitter Scribe (2):

This one Jewish guy I knew was really touchy about wealthy-Jew stereotypes. It got to the point where he was ethnically offended when someone referred to a rapacious local sports-team owner, who, yes, happened to be Jewish, as “greedy.”

Was that indeed what the someone said? I wonder if what was said was “that guy’s a cheap Jew,” but phrased in such a way that what you heard was “that (Jewish) guy is cheap.” So, a dog whistle that you missed. Or someone unthinkingly said “that guy’s a cheap Jew” when what they meant was “that (Jewish) guy is cheap.” That’s certainly not impossible if someone not attuned to anti-Jewish bigotry is speaking off the cuff. Or someone said “that (Jewish) guy is cheap” but was heard by someone already (subconsciously or consciously) alert for anti-Semitic remarks as “that guy’s a cheap Jew.” Because you tend to be more vigilant about that sort of thing when you’re the one on the receiving end, which is why we don’t rely on men to point out misogyny, cisfolks to point out transphobia, etc. etc.

Anent which, yeah, if I’m not really aware of how much anti-Semitism there is out there, you certainly aren’t.

Lauren O (11):

it seemed like people considered Jews white enough and non-oppressed enough that it was fine to make horrible jokes about them all the time.

I’m almost amused by the irony there. “Jews aren’t oppressed, so they’re fair game.”

Rebecca (16):

I’m Jewish, and my mother is always telling me I shouldn’t describe myself as cheap (even though I’m careful about what I spend and don’t like to buy expensive things), because of that stereotype.

I’ve given it as an explanation for why I’m cheap. But only when talking to people who know I’m being facetious.

bellacoker (44):

But that still assumes that black people [...] should be given jobs as wait staff, which are generally pretty shitty jobs with an unsteady income stream and very little opportunity for advancement.

Yeah. Except here in New York* most other such jobs are primarily held by black people; the reason there are so few black waiters is almost certainly a result of institutionalized or deliberate exclusion.

*Probably elsewhere too; what most strongly illustrated to young Hershelke the need for affirmative action was observing that these sorts of jobs are held by black people in New York and where possible by disproportionately white college students in Boston. There are undoubtedly subtleties I overlooked.

freddy (45):

in the context of Sharpton arguably encouraging people to riot on motherfuckers because they are greedy diamond merchants, Merwin’s use of an anti-Semitic stereotype to make an idiotic point is really not the priority.

But riots didn’t rresult from what Sharpton said whenever he said it. And Merwin’s comments were much more recent—we prioritize him above Sharpton because Sharpton’s been dealt with already.

There’s an unmistakeable whiff of “those people” in your comment that rubs me the wrong way. It may or may not be unconscious; I’ll have to take your word on that.

Hershele - not sure where you got “those people” but I assume “those people that Sharpton encouraged to riot.”  Or something like that.  I don’t know.  Anyways, not the intent and certainly not the point.

Merwin’s comments were more recent, to be sure.  But the anti-Semitic nature of them had nothing to do with the political point of what he was attempting to make.  He was using a blatantly anti-Semitic analogy to make a point that had nothing to do with Jews qua Jews.  Sharpton was unambigously playing anti-Semitic politics in a potentially violent way.  Huge difference.  Jacobson was presumably saying: Yeah, Merwin’s a douche, but there are bigger problems when it comes to prominent figures and anti-Semitism.  You can disagree with that, but it’s not ridiculous.  It’s best to let people decide for themselves what they are offended by.

I realize I’m being a bit bitchy today, what with having worked 8 days straight, 8+ hours a day in my lowly-ass retail job… but I am remarkably tired of the consistent looking down upon of people who end up in these jobs. No, you don’t “aspire” to be a waiter, a convenience store clerk, or, Dawkins forbid, a baker at the “largest retailer on earth”, but someone HAS to do them. We place way too much emphasis on pumping out poorly educated kids from college to have a degree that oftentimes will have no real value in the “real world” (this is NOT a slam on the college educated, but on the lack of skilled trade education etc that has made it mandatory to have a ‘degree’ in ‘something’ to get entry level jobs, which has had the effect of watering down many types of degrees). I think of myself as a fairly intelligent woman, degree or no degree, and capable of much more than frosting doughnuts, but the reality is that unless a few miracles come along to assist me in elevating my educational status, this is what I’m going to be doing. It’s honest work, though not living wage. (I wanted to smack the smug bastard senator who spoke at our store opening about all the new “family wage” jobs the store brought into the community. Nine dollars and twenty-five cents an hour is not a “family wage”.)

freddyback, I find your point about “letting people decide what they are offended by” grating; it is the first cousin of “some of my best friends are Jews so I can’t be racist”. Jesse was, in fact, offended by Jacobson/Merwin - that’s why he wrote about it. Your point seems to be that Jesse shouldn’t be offended by it because he’s black and not Jewish, which not only smacks of racism in its turn, but is patently idiotic - bigoted speech is offensive to all who want to live in a tolerant and equal society, not just to the special interest groups it explicitly attacks.

TheLady,  Jesse was snarkily and smugly criticizing Jacobson who prioritized a much more vitriolic form of anti-Semitism over Merwin’s.  I appreciate that Jesse finds Merwin offensive, as do I.  But I’d also appreciate it if Jesse allowed Jews to decide for themselves about what forms of anti-Semitism are more of an immediate priority.

freddybak, I would appreciate it if you would let every individual decide for themselves “what forms of anti-Semitism are more of an immediate priority.” I’m ethnically Jewish and I find Merwin’s casual, ignorant racism offensive as hell, and I don’t think bringing up Sharpton’s more obviously violent racism is a valid defense, which was Jesse’s point.

You’re welcome to think otherwise, but you don’t get to be the arbiter of what’s important for all of Judaism.

Which bit of “telling someone they have no right to offended by racist speech because they are the wrong race is racist” are you struggling with again, freddy?

I just did a search on the intertubes and nothing explicitly says that Jewish, but it’s a pretty safe assumption.  So TheLady, to the extent that Jacobson is not Jewish, I take it back. Otherwise, while I don’t get to decide what’s important for all of Judaism, neither does Jesse.  I’m defending Jacobson’s right to decide what is important for him, as a Jew.

I wouldn’t say “JAP” is very soft or even close to being harmless. It’s an unbelievably loaded term - a nice toxic little mix of racism, classism, “rich Jew” stereotypes, and misogyny. As a Jewish woman, I find this to be one of the most offensive things someone could call me.

And I know wiki is not an authority on anything, but their entry on JAP is pretty illuminating - if it is true, then the prevalence of this in educational settings is astounding. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish-American_princess

TheLady, Jesse was snarkily and smugly criticizing Jacobson who prioritized a much more vitriolic form of anti-Semitism over Merwin’s.  I appreciate that Jesse finds Merwin offensive, as do I.  But I’d also appreciate it if Jesse allowed Jews to decide for themselves about what forms of anti-Semitism are more of an immediate priority.

And you’re allowed to find Sharpton offensive. You are not allowed to tell other people that other things are not offensive.

Yeah, Merwin’s a douche, but there are bigger problems when it comes to prominent figures and anti-Semitism.

I’m sorry, I didn’t realize our reality had collapsed so that it’s only possibly to deal with one anti-Semitic asswipe at a time, and we must rank them in order of priority. I guess you should STFU about Al Sharpton, since his anti-Semitic prattling is pretty minor and has less effect in the real world than, say, Ahmedinajad’s.

“You can’t talk about this because something else is worse” is a tired old ploy and I’m rather surprised you tried it here; it’s used to silence any discussion that somebody doesn’t want to have because, hey, you can probably always find something worse.

And scolding Jesse for pointing out anti-Semitic behavior is equally stupid. The fact that it isn’t important to you doesn’t mean it’s beneath the notice of All Jewry, nor does it make Jesse bigoted for thinking that, you know, maybe some Jews would be bothered by this.

mythago, fully agreed; but I’d like to re-stress Jesse’s right to be bothered by this on his own behalf. Getthoisation of offense is a divide and rule tactic of bigotry - in relaity, we should all take repsonsibility and call bullshit on all bigoted speech.

I relaise that doing so can sometimes be met with angry responses from the target group, along the lines of “mind your own business and don’t tell me what to think”, and that of course racists will abuse the tactic when conveneint (“blacks should be offended that Obama calls himself black when he is only half black”), but these are both symptoms of the toxicity of right wing rhetoric and not much else.

It’s worth saying again: bigoted speech should bother everybody, regardless of whether they are in the group being targeted or not. And props to Jesse for being that change in the world.

I still don’t know where anyone had a problem with Jesse’s taking offense to Merwin.  Most people would find Merwin’s remarkes offensive.  I’m pretty sure I’ve stated that I do in every one of my comments.  But that wasn’t the point of this post.  The point of this post was belittling Jacobson for expressing the fact that he finds Merwin’s comments to not be particularly important in the context of Al Sharpton’s prominence in the Democratic Party.  That’s what I have a problem with Jesse doing.  Nice attempt at changing the subject though.

Freddy, it definitely looks like your saying “boy, those Hebes sure get irked at anti-Semitism. I’m glad I can save my time and energy to deal with real problems.” And that comes off as offensive somehow. Maybe I’m hypersensitively playing the Jew card, but I think it’s reasonable to interpret that as a swipe.

You’re hypersensitively defending Jesse.  As a Jew, I’m defending Jacobson’s right to prioritize what kind of anti semitism he focuses on.  Last time I checked, there were lots of different forms and threats.  I find Sharpton’s call to riots against diamond merchants to be more dangerous than an idiotic anti-semitic stereotype.  I think Jacobson should be allowed to agree without getting snark about it from a non-Jew.  Basically, I took it personally because, at least on this specific point, I agree with Jacobson.