Even after he showed them his driver’s license they arrested him—and then the police lied about being showed Gates identification, of course.

“Loud and disorderly” because that’s how middle-aged, bespectled pre-eminent scholars routinely behave.

Doesn’t sound like Gates was particularly innocent, either.  Don’t yell at the police, it doesn’t make them particularly charitable.

But the police were kinda racist.  ‘I saw a black male’ or ‘white female with a cell-phone’ is not a description.

I have no doubt that 90% of the police report is entirely fake.

Don’t mess with the authoriteh, just like that professor way out in Bozeman has learned!

What is it with professors and talking back?  Guess they are just too verbal and aware of, uh, civet rites.

“Loud and disorderly” = He didn’t willingly get face down on the floor on command so we could cuff his robbin’ ass, and dared to ask us what we were doing.

Another victim of LWB…Living While Black…

(He’s probably lucky they didn’t taze him to death…)

I really really wish it *was* safe to talk back to the police.  It’s not safe otherwise, but 5-0 gotta problem with other people’s safety at times.  Just because the practical advice sez so doesn’t mean it isn’t a shame, even if the professor was an asshole.

Fercryinoutloud, it SHOULD go something like this.

“Sir? Is there a problem here?”
“My door is jammed. The key isn’t turning properly.”
“May I see your ID?” Checks listed address against house address. “You’re in the right place. It’s probably time for you to call a locksmith in.”

I mean, wtf? Yeah, I’ve sometimes, for instance, gotten locked out and had to do a little thing with a window, and thought, “Damn, I look like a burglar.” But I also knew the neighbors could identify me if any police came along. Which turns out to be an example of white privilege, just being allowed to prove your innocence instead of being arrested without a chance to explain. And it shouldn’t be (obviously).

/me shudders,

that wasn’t all that funny for me MikeEss

There was an argument in a chat forum I hang out in where tazors came up as a topic and this cop starts really trying to defend it, and everyone was piling on (with personal experiences as well, mind you) about how those things were dangerous and routinely abused.  The cop never changed his mind and became angry that people wouldn’t see his side of it and left.

Those things have got to be removed from standard police gear.

Here’s the thing - the police report’s version of his actions sounds cartoonish, almost ridiculously so.  I have a really hard time believing that a renowned professor went off his rocker, particularly in light of how many police reports and courtroom transcripts I’ve seen where a black person was supposed to have said things cribbed directly from a Law & Order episode - and without even opening their mouths!

Skip Gates is one of the most recognizable people in the Harvard area.  Seriously.  I used to see him in Harvard Sq. all the time.  I’d be stunned, stunned if the police didn’t know exactly who he is.

I believe Dave Chapelle described this phenomenon.

http://www.entertonement.com/clips/cfclbytjzg—Black-Guy-Broke-in-and-Hung-Up-Pictures-of-His-FamilyDave-Chappelle-HBO-Comedy-Half-Hour-Dave-Chappelle-

There’s an element of class in this too—fancy Harvard professor asking cops if they “know who I am?”  Even a white professor might have found himself in cuffs. 

Gates, by the way, requires the use of a cane.  In other words, he routinely carries a dangerous weapon.

That police report is ridiculous.

Gates may have been acting like a jerk but the cop is still in the wrong here. After he made the determination that no crime had been committed and that Gates was a resident of the property, he should have left. Period. Even if Gates is “yelling at him”. I’d be hella pissed and yelling, too, but an angry white woman is not seen as a threat the way a black man of any age is.

“Don’t yell at the police, it doesn’t make them particularly charitable.”

It was HIS FUCKING HOUSE. I’d yell at their ass too.

I read this story yesterday and, I have to admit, I snickered a little at the idea that the cops found Dr. Gates SO THREATENING that they had to cuff him.  I mean, seriously.  Two guys in their 30s are so terrified of an elderly professor that they have to cuff him?

WTF is wrong with police today that they’re such lily-livered cowards that they can’t even talk to an old man outside his house without having to have him in handcuffs lest he swipe at their shins with his cane?

I live in Cambridge.

The police do not ordinarily arrest people for standing on the sidewalk shouting at them—I see that happening all the time.

What they do arrest people for is having the temerity to embarrass them quite justly in front of the public, which is what you read between the lines in the police report.

Short, slight 60-something men shouting angrily on the sidewalk in the middle of the day is really not the kind of public disturbance to which the Cambridge police ordinarily respond with an arrest.

“Those things have got to be removed from standard police gear.”

Affirmative…

Back when I was a 15-year-old babysitter, the neighbors called the cops because they saw a back door open and the cops walked in and found me sitting on the couch watching TV. I was a teenager, and at least mildly disreputable looking in a nerdy sort of way. I’m also white. The police were deferential and apologetic in a “the neighbors were worried, we’re so sorry to have disturbed you” sort of way.

Even if Professor Gates did yell at them, I would hazard a guess that he WOULDN’T have if he’d been treated with the apologetic politeness that I was treated AS A TEENAGER.

Then you’d probably get arrested, too.

Of course, while I’m not black… Or any discernible nonwhitness, my father was shot and killed by police (bad traffic stop, cop was found at fault); and I have lost several best friends to police action.

The police report may be cartoonish, but people of privilege do often act cartoonish.  I wonder if he really tried to call the police on the police…

I can’t count how many times I’ve been given the benefit of the doubt by cops on noise issues, parties, traffic tickets…  I’m a nobody, but I’m white and apparently middle-class so they aren’t looking to arrest me.  Exactly how successful do you have to be as a black person to have this benefit that I never did anything to earn?  How long before someone reports trespassers in the White House? 

Is anything being done to educate cops out of this mindset?

Doesn’t sound like Gates was particularly innocent, either.  Don’t yell at the police, it doesn’t make them particularly charitable.

What a terrible fucking comment.

While I agree that the police should’ve left once they knew he was the resident, I would say as this:  He offered his HARVARD id, which may not have had his address on it.  And yes a well know professor should have been recognized, but we can’t assume that the officer who responded was one who knew or would know Prof. Gates. Facts are there is always two sides to a story and I haven’t heard Gates’ side yet.  The truth of the matter always lies somewhere inbetween the two sides of a story.

Dan: 100% agreed.  Talking back to the police isn’t a crime.

AVSN: Read the article.  Gates gave the police both his Harvard ID AND DL (y’know, the one with your picture and address on it).  This is 100% pure power-tripping pigs putting a black man “in his place” and I think its sad that people like you and Crissa really believe that there’s any way to justify what took place, especially since you read this blog and are thus presumably at least somewhat progressive.

My inlaws are all cops.  Yes, you shouldn’t yell at them, b/c then they’ll pull their guns on you.  But once they’ve determined that you are trying to get into YOUR OWN FUCKING HOUSE, the COPS should apologize and offer to help.

Being rude to the police, while impolitic and not particularly smart, IS NOT ILLEGAL.

The officers who arrested Gates need to lose their jobs pronto.

I have to admit, I snickered a little at the idea that the cops found Dr. Gates SO THREATENING that they had to cuff him.  I mean, seriously.  Two guys in their 30s are so terrified of an elderly professor that they have to cuff him?

Reminds me of that scene with Glen and Randall Flagg’s men in <u>The Stand</u>.

Loomer: read the police report. You make an enormous asspumtion.  I don’t say or imply that what took place was justified.  I clearly reserve judgement.  As for me being progressive, I’m not sure that label could be applied to me, I tend toward a middle of the road mentality.

Ah, he followed the cop out of his house and continued arguing with him.

Passersby saw the encounter which “served no legitimate purpose and caused citizens passing by to stop and take notice while appearing surprised and alarmed.”

The passersby may have been white, you know, and preventing their alarm and surprise is more important than apologizing to an elderly man you have just accused of breaking into his own home.

Of course, Gates followed the officer out of his home at the officer’s request and to get the officer’s name and badge number.

It would be funny, but for the fact these cops are abusing their authority.  When Gates refused to let him in, as is his right, the cop radios for help noting he “was with a resident but very uncooperative.”

If you are talking to a resident who doesn’t want to let you in, and you don’t have a warrant, you are shit out of luck.  The officer could repeat that they were responding to a break in, but this asshole even thought he was talking to a resident and not a burglar.

Every officer involved needs to be put on unpaid leave NOW, and the asshole who didn’t like being called a racist when he wouldn’t apologize for harrassing a person in their home needs to lose his job.

You don’t have to commit a crime to be arrested, such is our law.

Does his ID not have a fucking picture on it?

Yes, yes it does.

Passersby saw the encounter which “served no legitimate purpose and caused citizens passing by to stop and take notice while appearing surprised and alarmed.”

Yes, the passersby were surprised and alarmed by how ridiculous the police were being.

Also, there were a minimum of five cop cars on this one-block residential street, according to someone who was there.  Because short, slight, 60-something professors really need to be subdued by 10+ officers.

Also, there were a minimum of five cop cars on this one-block residential street, according to someone who was there.

I have to admit, I would be surprised and alarmed to see five police cars on my block.  I would be even more alarmed to find out that they were there to arrest a guy who had talked back to them when they accused him of breaking into his own house.

You will see from the police report that Gates could not lock the door with his key after being arrested, because of a previous break-in.  I suspect Gates was particularly frustrated at being treated as a suspect, with a previous break-in remaining unsolved . . .

“Because short, slight, 60-something professors really need to be subdued by 10+ officers.”

In LA, back at the height of LAPD terrorism under the infamous Daryl Gates, they would have used that many officers, maybe use a choke hold on him (he would “mysteriously” die in a jail cell later) claiming he was “dusted” (high on PCP), or shoot him and them plant a weapon so they could claim it was justified.

I guess the more things change…

“You don’t have to commit a crime to be arrested, such is our law”

No, but according to the Constitution the police need probable cause to believe that you have committed a crime; they can’t just arrest people for no reason, as much as they and their authoritarian supporters seem to believe otherwise.  The problem is, that’s lead to the creation of bullshit offenses like disorderly conduct here; which is normally police talk for “I wanted to arrest the person and need to charge them with something.”

You don’t have to commit a crime to be arrested, such is our law.

Crissa, you make a great little Soviet.

Feeling safe is so much better than having liberty.

Crissa:

Don’t yell at the police, it doesn’t make them particularly charitable.

The first, of many things, wrong with this comment is that it assumes the cop is telling the truth in his report. BAD assumption.

rea:

I suspect Gates was particularly frustrated at being treated as a suspect, with a previous break-in remaining unsolved . . .

Bingo. They’re too inept to catch the burglar yet they have time to arrest the owner of the fucking house. I wish I would have the guts to give a shithead copper what-for under similar circumstances but I know damn well I wouldn’t have the guts, since it could jeopardize my job. I respect the hell out of the good professor for not taking it lying down.

The good part is that he’ll soon be in receipt of a sizable settlement check from the City of Cambridge which I’m sure he’ll put to good use- a graduate fellowship, maybe.

According to the report, the officer continued to call for backup after determining that Gates was in fact in his own home. That is not the behavior of an innocent police officer.

The rest of the article, noting that pretty much every other black professor at Harvard has also been stopped and hassled by local police is more than a bit horrible.

But what really gets me is the incredibly privileged racist neighbor who ostensibly started the whole thing. You live a couple houses away from Henry Louis Gates and have never seen him? We know all black men look alike to some people, but that’s just ridiculous. It’s like seeing the Obamas in the Rose Garden and calling the police because a black man has broken into the White House.

Loomer: read the police report.

Gee whiz, what better source to read than this totally unbiased and non-partisan write up of how things happened?

Loomer: read the police report.

You trust the cops?  Why?

Even if you believe every word in the police report, including “tumultuous”, this stinks like week-old fish. As soon as the officer determined Gates was lawfully in his own home, the incident was over. The job of police officers in places where they have no lawful business being is to de-escalate and get out.

It’s like seeing the Obamas in the Rose Garden and calling the police because a black man has broken into the White House.

Don’t give Glenn Beck any ideas, OK?

I’m with Jesse.  If you read the police report, the only reasonable conclusion is, “Yeah right.”  Some of the stuff sounds like what a white person who has never even talked to a black person thinks black people say, and some of it sounds like it’s something that Gates maybe said after being provoked by being harassed.  The cop protests too much about how solicitous he was, and I say bullshit—-if he really thought a crime was being committed, he wouldn’t be the teddy bear he pretends to be.  The cop goes out of his way to pretend he didn’t do anything to provoke an angry reaction.

And seriously, the cops whined that people in the street stopped and took notice.  That’s not a reason to arrest someone.

I will say that a few months ago I saw a house party where most of the attendees were black get broken up while at a party next door, and I’ve never in my life seen such a police overkill.  You couldn’t even hear the party inside the house I was at, and even if a couple of guests were being rowdy, most clearly were not.  There seemed to be underage drinking, and that’s it.  But the police responded with the helicopter, and they blocked off the street with like 12 cop cars and spent about two hours total on the whole situation, walking up and down the street in a row of 5 cops.  No one was arrested that I could see, but they were just that determined to make sure the kids didn’t hide in the bushes and sneak back when the cops left.

After watching that, my already strained ability to assume any good will on the behalf of police in these situations was terminated.

Look, I’m just telling the reality.  Police really can arrest you for no wrong-doing.  They can hold you, without charges, for seventy-two hours.

Yes, I make a great soviet!  My father was killed wrongly by a police man.  One of my best friends was killed by a police officer, who was never charged for anything.  She was merely yelling at them, with a screwdriver in hand - from her work building computer cores.

Don’t yell at cops.

You can be sure most of the police report is just CYA - also known as lying. I am impressed by Gates. He is willing to act in a way most of us are afraid of doing with authority. He didn’t have to tell the police shit. He was in his own home. I really hope this arrest of a well-known intellectual figure becomes a focal point for looking at police behavior.

DN

The woman who panicked over black people and called the cops is a quite young Harvard employee.

Sensitivity training time?  Yep. 

Chrissa, you are an idiot.  They pushed around a 5’4” 60 year old man with a can WHO WAS IN HIS OWN HOME.  If you don’t UNDERSTAND THAT you are a fool.  They had no business in his house to begin with, and he did establish that he lived there and they chose to cover their stupid asses.  Period.

Maybe if you lived through the days of Dee Brown, or the physician who was dragged from his car while waiting for his daughter in the suburb where he lived, or Acelyne Williams, you wouldn’t be so fucking quick to defend bullies and blame the victim.  COPS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FUCKING EXPENSIVELY TRAINED PROFESSIONALS WHO FUCKING WORK FOR US!

You can be sure most of the police report is just CYA - also known as lying.

Yeppers.  Because the cops now realize that they weren’t harassing just another professor.  They harassed a guy who has a national platform and can go on pretty much any TV show he pleases to talk about what happened.  The fact that Gates’ lawyer and fellow Harvard professor, Charles Ogletree, is a good friend of President and Mrs. Obama is probably giving the police chief some pretty serious heartburn right about now, too.

BTW, she not only works for Harvard, she works for Harvard MAGAZINE and didn’t know what gates looks like.

This is just crazy. Gates was clearly having a bad day, but should be to deal with that. And if he had ID that linked him to the address, there’s no crime inpushing in your own door.

Here’s what I would do if I were the cop:

Me: Yo! What’s goin on here?

Gates: Damn lock is acting up again.

Me: You gotta understand that bustin down a door looks suspicious.

Gates: This is my own fuckin house, pig. I shoulda tightened those screws in the lock.

Me: I ask you to refrain from taking that tone with me. Do you have any identification? (Gates hands over ID) Oh, You’re Professor Gates. I heard your bit once about the reaction to 9/11 has made us all niggers. You had a point.

Gates: Really?

Me: Yeah, it kinda made sense. Take it easy holmes and call a locksmith. I gotta give you at least three phone numbers or it’s corruption and stuff.

Gates: Thanks, you’ve really helped me out.

Oooh, gets better.  I just used the internal directory - looks like the young racist who freaked out over black guys working with a stuck lock actually made her little racial panic 911 call from her office at Harvard Magazine.

Somebody is going to have to do some explaining.

Mnemosyne, sometimes “do you know who I am” is pretentious bullshit. 

Sometimes, “do you know who I am” is a sound warning.

Kind of like Dershowitz’ nephew’s little “slumlord won’t return security deposit” problem.  Yes, there are some slumlords out there who are exactly that stupid enough to rent to somebody named “Dershowitz” in the Cambridge/Somerville area and attempt to steal the security deposit and last month’s rent.

Thanks, Ms Kate, that’s what I was pretty much thinking “Do you know who I am?” meant—“I have the media connections and legal knowledge to make violations of my rights a real problem for you.” That’s not being an ass; it’s making it clear you can stand up for yourself. He also wasn’t trying to get special treatment, like a VIP trying to bluster their way out of a DWI.

Yes, I’m a fool.

A fool who is minus a father and a girl I dated via the police.

Thanks.

You don’t tell the police what you can do to them.  You don’t tell them they’re wrong.  You obey them and answer their questions, quietly.  When they go away, that’s when you call their boss or make the case against them - not in front of them.

Our system of law does not allow arguing with cops.  Don’t do it, you will always lose in the short run.

... if I saw anyone of any color trying to enter any home in any neighborhood by some means other than unlocking the door with a key or opening the unlocked door, I’d assume criminal activity. Unless I recognized the person. Or he or she showed me ID (if I were a cop) saying someone with his or her face lived at that address.

Chrissa, you’re ... I hate to use the word “sheep” in this context. You’re a shmuck. Victim-blamer, perhaps, but I think shmuck covers it. “My father was shot by out-of-control cops, so we should all <strike>condemn police shootings</strike> rim the police!”

But it’s okay to assume that a person is not dangerous based on their age?  There’s a word for cops who assume someone must be safe based on their appearance:  dead.

Please show us the case where a cop was killed in a quiet suburb by a 5’4” tall 60-year-old man who walks with a cane.  Cases where the cops bust down the wrong door in the middle of the night and get themselves shot because the homeowner thinks they’re burglars don’t count.

Of course, you probably think the LAPD was justified in killing Margaret Mitchell because she waved a screwdriver in their general direction and that they were justified when they shot a man in the back who never even saw them because he had a prop gun in his hand inside the house where a Halloween party was taking place.

I lived in New York City for a decade, and twice during that time when I sought their help while I was being harassed on the street by men, their only response was to ask, “Are you a prostitute?”

Under 5’ tall, white girl dressed like a regular girl. Lord know the depth of hostility, if I’d been a shade or so darker.

Yeah, the police are assholes, I guess unless you’re white and male and with an appropriate income level.

I think Crissa is arguing practicality while other folks are arguing what should happen, i.e
You should be able to tell the cops that they are doing something wrong, and they should respond to finding they are wrong in a professional manner BUT in practice, doing so can get you shot, so protect yourself first, and try to get the cops canned second. And address the systemic problems with the police third.

You know, I might not agree with Chrissa’s stance on dealing with police, but I can do so without resorting to name-calling.  If someone tells me they’ve suffered loss of loved ones due to violence, I’m inclined to be sympathetic, not vitriolic.

Don’t yell at the police, it doesn’t make them particularly charitable.

fuck them. Police work is a Customer Service job. A specific sort of Customer Service, but still CS.

If they don’t like the job, if they don’t have the temperament for dealing with swearing, sneering bullshit, especially when yes, they as the worker actually are in the wrong in the situation (as asking a homeowner “Show your ID to prove you aren’t a thief here” puts them) is, they can find a different line of work.

They can, when they leave the scene, grumble to themselves and their coworkers about what a prick that guy was, but arresting him for embarrassing them isn’t justified.

To reinforce, Crissa’s point is that in our current system, you shouldn’t confront the large man with the weapons and the bad attitude; you should de-escalate in order to avoid violence.

Those of you operating from the confused notion that this is still an essentially free country are now welcome to the wakeup call.  The culture has changed.  Things that used to be confined to certain areas and neighborhoods now aren’t.  Our police forces have moved from a service mindset (if they had one in the first place) to an occupation mindset.

Like a few others, I think the pile on Crissa is unnecessary, and I think stems from misunderstanding.

There are many trolls who have turned up on Pandagon threads trying to justify obviously egregious police action, and Crissa has been unfairly tarred with the same brush.  Like Jalmondale said above, she is arguing practicality - unfair, unjust, but real world practicality - from the perspective of someone who has lost loved ones to obviously egregious police action.

Crissa though, you might consider rephrasing what you are trying to say, because when read quickly is does start to sound like “stupid Professor Gates brought it on himself”, and I’m pretty sure that’s not your intention.

Crissa’s advice is no different from the ACLU’s:

http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14528res20040730.html

But they’re sheep, right?

And no, this is not an endorsement of the officer’s behavior or his narrative.  I doubt Gates behaved as described, and even if he did, it wouldn’t be justification for the officer’s behavior.

But “the young racist?”  She reported what she believed to be a crime; she was wrong, but I don’t see how that renders her a racist, let alone deserving of some censure by her employer.

-if he really thought a crime was being committed, he wouldn’t be the teddy bear he pretends to be.

See?  This here is why he needs to be fired.  He writes in his police report, and I quote above, that he believed he was talking to a “resident”, albeit a “very uncooperative” one.

Incident over.  No crime being committed.  Apologize for the inconveniece and GET OUT.

You don’t keep calling for backup and tell an old man to come outside to get your name and badge #.

This guy completely fucked up.  I totally believe you need to do what cops tell you to do when they engage you—they tell you to stop moving, stop immediately.  Put your hands up.  Let them know you aren’t going to shoot them, so they don’t shoot you.  But once they have your information and know you aren’t a burglar in your own home it’s their job to protect and serve you.

Doesn’t matter how this asshole wrote it up.  He received the IDs and believed the man was in his legal residence and continuted to escalate the situation.  It’s not legal, he’s exposed Cambridge to a massive lawsuit by his racism, and the least that should happen is this asshole is fired.

——
Drew, why wouldn’t a neighbor recognize a well-known professor?  Mybe she’s new to the neighborhood, but maybe it’s just that all black men look the same to her.  That’s harsh, but unfortunately all too often true.  Has she ever looked at him?

I make a point of looking at black men and saying “hi” when walking around my neighborhood simply b/c too many white women are terrified of black men for no reason.  They cross the street if one is walking toward them.  They duck into stores.  In other words, they act like any black man is a potential rapist.

I know saying “hi” isn’t much, but treating black men as if they were white men is the least I can do.

His door was jacked up, so I can see someone calling the cops.  What I cannot understand is why, once the officer saw the ID, he didn’t leave with an apology for the inconvenience.  Prof. Gates did not have to let the officer in his house without a warrant.

The fact that this black man knew and invoked his rights instead of grovelling before the cop seems to be the instigating factor, and that’s completely unacceptable in America.  Completely.  The man needs to be fired for escalating a non-issue.

On the one hand, Crissa’s advice is what the bulk of African-American parents have been telling their children for generations.  There’s a fine line between standing up for yourself (Martin Luther King’s famous “Sir, I’m not a boy.”) and taking foolish risks in dealing with feral cops.  I’m all “Go, Gates!” myself, but if he did indeed lose his temper, I wouldn’t recommend him as a model for others.

Apropos of idiotic and bullying police officers, I give you the worst case yet

Caren:  Except, upthread, someone did some research and found that the woman had placed the initial 911 phone call from her office.

What the fuck!?!??!?!? Gates Jr. arrested?

Look, I’m just telling the reality.  Police really can arrest you for no wrong-doing.  They can hold you, without charges, for seventy-two hours.

I’m sorry for your tragedy, but your responses are damn right Soviet.

I hate what W has done to my country.  Police who arrest people, especially specifically protected classes of people, for being in their own homes deserve to be canned at the very least.  They are public SERVANTS and this crazy ‘do anything to keep us safe’ and ‘what do you care if you’re innocent’ bullshit has to stop.

If you are in your house, a cop has no right to enter it without a warrant.  Yes, he’s responding to a call, but the moment he saw Prof. Gates ID, he needed to apologize and leave.

He didn’t.  Even in his CYA report, he admits he knew he was talking to a resident.  “Very uncooperative” is not an excuse.  The man was in his home, the cop knew he was talking to a resident, and called for more backup.

Then he refused to give the man his name and badge until he came onto the porch.  THEN he arrested him for being disorderly in public—b/c he couldn’t figure out how to get into the house to arrest him for exercising his rights.

THAT IS ALL KINDS OF FUCKED UP.  The cop needs to go, and people need to be outraged.  There are laws that govern how police can behave.  The FUCKING CONSTITUTION governs how they can behave.

Gates didn’t have a screwdriver in his hands.  He wasn’t holding a cell phone.  It wasn’t a case where an overly stressed out cop could make a mistake about being threatened.  The man was in his home.  He was arrested for telling a trespasser to get the fuck out of his face. 

He was arrested b/c the cop didn’t like a ni**er telling him off.  This is an arrest that NEVER should have happened.  When I say that the man needs to be fired and all the back up officers need to be put on leave, I FUCKING MEAN IT.  They broke the law, Cambridge is now liable for damages for civil rights violations, and telling people “don’t yell at cops” WHEN THEY ARE IN THEIR FUCKING HOMES is wrong.

It’s wrong.  It has to stop, or we really are the new SSR.

I’m with Caren.  I admire Dr. Gates’s bravery for standing up for what he believed was right.  And. frankly, he was right to make a ruckus to attract a crowd rather than hope that the nice police officer was not going to kill him without any witnesses. 

Sadly it seems like an intractable problem that racists gravitate towards law enforcement:
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20090721_Cop_group_gets_ban_on_controversial_Web_site.html

And are perfectly willing to abuse their authority (and have other cops back them up):
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/51196597.html?cmpid=15585797

And it’s one thing to give the advice to be cooperative in the abstract, quite different when your first reaction to this incident is to point out the victim’s behavior.  That’s when it crosses the line into victim blaming.

My comment disappeared.  Hopefully this isn’t a double post.

I mean, wtf? Yeah, I’ve sometimes, for instance, gotten locked out and had to do a little thing with a window, and thought, “Damn, I look like a burglar.” But I also knew the neighbors could identify me if any police came along.

Except that one of his neighbors apparently called in a possible break-in, SV, so clearly they couldn’t identify him.  That is certainly a problem, but not with the police.  It’s one I’ve found consistant with people in MA though, they don’t talk to their neighbors much.

I make a point of looking at black men and saying “hi” when walking around my neighborhood simply b/c too many white women are terrified of black men for no reason.  They cross the street if one is walking toward them.  They duck into stores.  In other words, they act like any black man is a potential rapist.

When we first moved to MA and were in Cambridge, a nice young black man held the door for me after he came out of a shop with his friends as I was going in with my younger child (8 yo).  I said thank you.  He looked shocked and proceeded to tell me, at length, that I shouldn’t do that, that I shouldn’t talk to him, etc.  I was completely bemused.

So the police get a call about someone ramming a door in, investigate it, encounter a surly uncooperative man, and you decide it’s racism?

I love the sweet sound of victimization.

I’m not sure the cop was being racist, except to play the “he called me a racist WAHHHH” card as part of his CYA testalying police report.  Gates’ most likely “crime” was knowing and understanding that he had a complete and perfect right to question the cop’s authority, and, when the cop escallated the situation to arrest once he realized that he was in deep shit.  That may or may not be racist - it might be just equal opportunity inability to answer to the law.

That said, Miss Harvard Magazine made that call from work.  She’s a racist, a fool, and may be in deep shit for harassment.  I doubt she will be fired - she was young, stupid, racist, and probably grew up swimming at the Valley Club - but she will most certainly have a lot to answer for.

Potfry, do you know who Dee Brown is?  Do you know who Acelyne Williams was?  Do you understand that Boston and its suburbs have a checkered history of persecuting black men for existing, particularly living in wealthy areas, in Dr. Gates’ life time?

Have you ever had to come to the door to tell the cops to LET GO OF YOUR HOUSEMATE because he was “attempting to break in” ... er ... using his key to get into his own house?

If not, then STFU.  Your twenty years of breathing is a waste of oxygen and you don’t know shit.

Our system of law does not allow arguing with cops.  Don’t do it, you will always lose in the short run.

Then thank GOD for Dr. Gates because this shit just has to stop somewhere!

He is using his wealth and education privilege packs to trump the police state and racism abuses.

I would add that Dr. Gates is in fact not middle-aged but rather is 60 years old and walks with a cane.

His door was jacked up, so I can see someone calling the cops.  What I cannot understand is why, once the officer saw the ID, he didn’t leave with an apology for the inconvenience.  Prof. Gates did not have to let the officer in his house without a warrant.

The fact that this black man knew and invoked his rights instead of grovelling before the cop seems to be the instigating factor, and that’s completely unacceptable in America.  Completely.  The man needs to be fired for escalating a non-issue.

I agree with this.

And, after reading the report, there are quite a few holes, inconsistencies, and things which make absolutely no damned sense. There also seems to be quite a bit of hole-filing in the form of Gates causing “alarm and shock” w/re to the people passing by.

Question: According to the police report, the witness saw 2 Black men. What happened to the second man?

The fact that this black man knew and invoked his rights instead of grovelling before the cop seems to be the instigating factor…

Yes…seems that way.

I think Crissa is arguing practicality while other folks are arguing what should happen…

That happens a lot here. And, many people who visit this site seem to be either UNwilling or UNable to recognize this in the discussions. Then, things quickly degenrate into a pile-on followed up with “You’re a TROLL!”

On the one hand, Crissa’s advice is what the bulk of African-American parents have been telling their children for generations.  There’s a fine line between standing up for yourself (Martin Luther King’s famous “Sir, I’m not a boy.”) and taking foolish risks in dealing with feral cops.  I’m all “Go, Gates!” myself, but if he did indeed lose his temper, I wouldn’t recommend him as a model for others.

Damned right.

I have a son and I have these thoughts all the time. He’s only 8 - but I know how people see him as a Black person and a male. It scares me.

Crissa though, you might consider rephrasing what you are trying to say, because when read quickly is does start to sound like “stupid Professor Gates brought it on himself”, and I’m pretty sure that’s not your intention.

Katherine on 07/21 at 04:15 AM

Katherine, still trying to dictate to people HOW they should express themselves, huh?
Here’s my advice for you: STFU and take that mess back over to the other site where that shit is acceptable.

Ms. Kate.

Of course, you can’t deal with the facts of Mr. Gates’ incident, because your argument falls apart.  It has to be about the tapestry of racism and hatred and Lord knows what other shit the voices in your demented mind are whispering to you.

Let me write it out for you:  Shut the fuck up.  You are part of the problem, and you have no fucking clue.  Let rational minds deal with this.

<i>Let me write it out for you:  Shut the fuck up.  You are part of the problem, and you have no fucking clue.  Let rational minds deal with this. </i

Talking some sense to yourself again, eh?

Rational minds deal in evidence and precident and fact.  The evidence and precident and fact of being a black male in this geographic area in this lifetime point to Professor Gates both recognizing more of the same shit that plagues blacks in this city and playing his privilege cards to expose it.

You may go back to your talking cheetos now.  What’s that ... mommy says breakfast is ready?

Dee Brown: http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/26/us/wellesley-journal-mistaken-identity-or-case-of-racism.html

Another man arrested for coming to work:

  Racial Profiling
A young African-American man who worked at Massachusetts General Hospital was unlawfully arrested by private security based on his race. He was charged with assault and battery on a police officer, disturbing the peace, and possession of a dangerous weapon. These charges were dismissed at the request of the prosecution. The case settled.

A black father in Milton, MA, waiting for his daughter at a friend’s house, dragged from his car, beaten, arrested, and then asked to sign a “I won’t sue” agreement in order to be released (yes, that was thrown out right away under coercion laws - he was awarded $3.5 million)

Accelyne Williams, retired minister, killed in his own home (among others who defended themselves against home invasion by police): http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=517438

Nope, no reason for Dr. Gates to put up a fuss and challenge Mr. Cop about barging into his castle.  Racism is just an imaginary figment in these parts, and cops are always sensible and fair.  Right.

Ms. Kate, you’re actually talking to the shallow end of the pool?  Why?

That is certainly a problem, but not with the police.  It’s one I’ve found consistant with people in MA though, they don’t talk to their neighbors much.

Which would be somewhat understandable if the “unrecognizable” individual in question wasn’t an extremely well-known intellectual, sometime talking head and social commentator, and local celebrity.  I don’t know my neighbors all that well and wouldn’t recognize on sight everyone who lives within a 10 block radius.  But I’m aware of who the neighborhood celebrities are.  The other day I saw one of the guys from TV On The Radio in a local record store, chatting with the proprietor; I somehow managed not to call in an armed robbery.  For a long time, one of the biggest VIPs at my work was Latino.  I found myself mysteriously unlikely to mistake him for a delivery guy.  It’s not rocket science, folks.

It was two black men because Gates asked his cab driver for help. I’d also note he was coming home from China and was probably exhausted so he probably didn’t need the BS from the cops on top of finding his door jammed.

Sometimes, “do you know who I am” is a sound warning.

And in this case it might mean, “I’m the guy who was talking to your department about a break-in here yesterday—don’t you people run LEIN checks?”

So the police get a call about someone ramming a door in, investigate it, encounter a surly uncooperative man, and you decide it’s racism?

What’s your explanation for why the cop arrested a guy he knew full well was an actual resident of the house?  Why did the cop call for backup after he knew that he was talking to someone inside their own house?  Why did the cop refuse to give Dr. Gates his name and badge number unless Dr. Gates came out onto the porch and then promptly arrest him?

These are all things the officer admits to doing in his police report.  His explanation for the arrest? Dr. Gates was mean to him and called him a racist.  That’s about it.

I guess it’s so impossible for a police officer to be racist that now it’s completely justified for them to arrest someone for even saying it to them.

Not to mention that a 60 year old, with cane and luggage, trailed by a cabbie associated with a cab with highly identifyable markings, is hardly “ramming the door”.  If the issue is what I think it is - it was VERY humid and doors swell over several days and tend to jam - he was not “ramming” it but getting somebody more massive and able to give it a good old shove!

If the issue is what I think it is - it was VERY humid and doors swell over several days and tend to jam

The police report indicates that the door was damaged in a previous (real) break-in.

Drew, why wouldn’t a neighbor recognize a well-known professor?  Mybe she’s new to the neighborhood, but maybe it’s just that all black men look the same to her.  That’s harsh, but unfortunately all too often true.  Has she ever looked at him?

Maybe not; do we even know if she was a neighbor?  She might have been walking through the neighborhood on the way to work.

It’s not that I think her perception couldn’t have been colored by racism, it’s that I don’t think there’s sufficient evidence to draw that conclusion; and I really don’t think there’s sufficient evidence to conclude that racism so colored her perception that her behavior constituted harassment.

I think she did what a citizen should do if they see what they believe to be a crime in progress: report it.

At that point, it became the responsibility of the police to resolve the report, and that’s where the failure occurred.

A black father in Milton, MA, waiting for his daughter at a friend’s house, dragged from his car, beaten, arrested, and then asked to sign a “I won’t sue” agreement in order to be released (yes, that was thrown out right away under coercion laws - he was awarded $3.5 million)

What?!

Where can I get my ass beat for 3.5 milion dollars?!

Answering my own question: yes, she was a neighbor. 

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=07&year=2009&base_name=henry_louis_skip_gates_arreste

The next block party will be awkward.

Okay, two things—the young lady who called the cops was not a residential neighbor but someone who called from her place of business? How does that work?

Second, and I’m REALLY ambivalent as I write this, we need to lower the number of cops in certain areas. Somehow saying that less law enforcement is necessary seems wrong—I must be very conditioned. Crime stats have dropped precipitously in most major metro areas and across all 50 states, and it seems that cops are trying to fill in their time with enforcement of the most minor of laws. In a nearby city, a suburb of LA/Orange, crime is so low that this city shares the police force with another city, and most of the time, these cops are stopping male teenage drivers for doing funny color things with their taillights.

The controversial chapter in “Freakonomics” by Stephen Dubner and Steven Levitt give some pretty complete stats on the whys and wherefores of the diminution of crime, and for the sake of everyone’s peace of mind, we really do have to act on the info.

Imagine what a society we could have if we ended the “War on Drugs”, regulated their sale, and were able to assign law enforcement to go after white collar corporation crime(read Republicans) instead of bothering professors at their own residences.

Katherine, still trying to dictate to people HOW they should express themselves, huh?
Here’s my advice for you: STFU and take that mess back over to the other site where that shit is acceptable.

Um, Uhuru, are you sure you’re talking to the same Katherine, cos I really don’t know what “other site” you’re talking about, nor am I aware of any history of my trying to dictate people how they should express themselves.

I was trying, unsuccessfully it would seem, to mediate between two way of expressing views on this that seemed to be misunderstanding each other.  And I’ve got it in the ear from both sides.  Oh well.

I think she did what a citizen should do if they see what they believe to be a crime in progress: report it.

At that point, it became the responsibility of the police to resolve the report, and that’s where the failure occurred.

I agree.  There may well have been some (probably unconscious) racism on the part of the original caller, but that’s completely immaterial.  It’s not her fault that the cop acted like an asshole. 

Unless we can prove some kind of active malice on her part (like she and Gates were involved in a previous property dispute or something), I don’t think it’s fair to treat her like the villain when she was doing what we hope our neighbors would do:  report what she thinks may be a break-in when no one is home.

I was trying, unsuccessfully it would seem, to mediate between two way of expressing views on this that seemed to be misunderstanding each other.  And I’ve got it in the ear from both sides.

Yep, that happened to me last week.  It ended with the misunderstood poster apologizing to everyone but me and calling me “hateful.”  It’s not worth it.

yeah, Mnemosyne, I just did not get that.  That was so damn wierd.  I took it as a kind of goodbye swipe to say he/she was better than *someone* in her embarrasment.

Potfry does bring up an interesting point—how much economic loss is associated with having to bother to listen to and debunk conservative stupidity, much less if it actually gets implemented? 

Psychosis hurts.  Liberalism can help.

Oh, and if anyone was in any doubt that this would have another outcome:  the charges against Gates have been dropped and the city has apologized to him for the arrest.

Crackpot, Potfry, whatever the hell your name is, are you saying it’s actually ok for the police to arrest anyone trying to enter a private residence, even if it’s the resident? So if you’re arrested going into your own home, that’s fine? If your child was shot by police trying to prevent him or her from going into his or her own home, you’d be cool with that?

Mnemosyne:

I don’t really buy the caller’s blamelessness. For instance, one of the things our neighbors do when they see something suspicious happening at our house (a car they’ve never seen before, people they don’t know) is call us and ask if everything’s OK. Part of the responsibility of being a good neighbor is not siccing the police on your other neighbors without cause. And especially if you’re working at the office of an established magazine, just calling the cops without informing any of your co-workers (“Ohmigod! look outside! There’s someone breaking into that house!” “You idiot, that’s Skip Gates and a cabdriver carrying his luggage into his house.”) is kinda stupid because you’re offering them an opportunity to walk unawares into a crime scene.

Stupid and unconsciously racist at best is still my call.

Some ageism creeping in here, calling Prof. Gates at 58 “elderly”.  I have met him a few times and he is only intimidating intellectually, certainly not physically. And he is generally soft-spoken.  I can imagine his friend Cornel West, now at Princeton and who is a much more demonstrative, sometimes loud person, calling Gates and saying, “I could understand a cop getting pissed at me for mouthing off, but you???” 

Thanks, Ms Kate, that’s what I was pretty much thinking “Do you know who I am?” meant—“I have the media connections and legal knowledge to make violations of my rights a real problem for you.” That’s not being an ass; it’s making it clear you can stand up for yourself. He also wasn’t trying to get special treatment, like a VIP trying to bluster their way out of a DWI.
Samantha Vimes on 07/20 at 11:46 PM

It can be hard for a listener to tell the difference.  Gates may well have been trying to pull out his privilege as a Harvard Prof.  The cop may also have been thereby motivated to take him down a peg.  One can be completely in the right and still get arrested, or worse. 

Once the ID was established the cop clearly should have apologized and backed off completely.  On the other hand, Gates might have handled it better, too, by acknowledging that the initial inquiry might have been justified.  I’ll be interested in following this story.

For instance, one of the things our neighbors do when they see something suspicious happening at our house (a car they’ve never seen before, people they don’t know) is call us and ask if everything’s OK.

Even if they know you’re away on a trip and that your house has already been broken into once before?

Again, you can probably argue some unconscious racism on the part of the caller for the initial call (“Oh noes!  Two black men!”), but there was NO reason for this to escalate into an arrest and no way for the caller to know that the cop would freak out on a guy inside his own home.  Especially if you’re young and white, you assume that once the cops find out that the guy “breaking in” lives there, they’ll apologize and leave.  Whoops.  She won’t make that mistake again.

It is not the caller’s fault that the cop who came over to investigate was an asshole who arrested Gates because he was embarrassed about being wrong.

I hope the prof doesn’t drop this. I hope he sees fit to embarrass the Cambridge police into initiating some changes.

In other words, the Middlesex County DA looked at his 10 foot pole ... and his 11 foot pole ... and his 12 foot pole ... and even then, it still stunk way too much to even think of touching it.

I’m sorry, but no where in this nation do you have the right to question a policeman’s authority.  You do so at your own peril.  Look up legal precedence, you’ll find I’m right, and you’re wrong.  I don’t see how that is at all soviet, telling you how it is in the real world.

Apparently sharing my tragedy is a laughing matter for Caren.

Anyhow, Katherine, thanks for trying.  Uhuru kinda always ends their posts by yelling at someone, tho.

I hadn’t blamed the caller until I saw the picture of Gates in Gawker. I thought maybe he looked scruffy after his long trip home from China.

But if you go to Gawker, it’s running a picture of Gates being arrested (and it looks as though he’s protesting as he’s being dragged away in handcuffs). He’s wearing a polo shirt and dress slacks. If I saw someone dressed like him pushing into a door, I wouldn’t have assumed it was an armed robber doing a full frontal break-in. In addition, it wasn’t a cab driver, but a limo driver who dropped him off. Airport limo drivers tend to be dressed up.

In addition, it wasn’t a cab driver, but a limo driver who dropped him off. Airport limo drivers tend to be dressed up.

Plus there tends to be, you know, a limo at the curb when you take a limo home from the airport.  Even if it’s just a nondescript black town car, the “livery” plates usually clue you in.

Again, though, the lion’s share of the blame goes to the cop who escalated things to the point where he arrested a guy for talking back to him in his own home.

Okay, I take back some of what I said about the caller not really being to blame—when the cop arrived she apparently was standing outside the Gates house with her cell phone, which would have given her plenty of time to figure out what was going on.  Sounds like she went into freaked-out shutdown mode OHMIGOD there are BLACK PEOPLE in my neighborhood! and was unable to look realistically at what was happening right in front of her.

Uhuru kinda always ends their posts by yelling at someone, tho.
Crissa on 07/21 at 05:03 PM

Dayum! I was unaware that you followed my posts so closely. I’m flattered.

BTW - You are one ignorant ignoramus if you really think that criticizing me will save your victim blaming ass - LOL! Once these folks have you pegged, you’re pegged Peggy!

Mnemosyne, it wasn’t even her neighborhood - she works across the street.  She is a Harvard Magazine employee.

or ... was?  In any case, there is a decent case to be made that what she did constitutes race-based harassment.  That means HR will probably send her to sensitivity training at the very least, and this will go down on her permanent record.

Woman needs to work in a place that hires black people in a professional capacity. Like. . . Harvard University? Oops, she already works for HARVARD Magazine.

The magazine is not the university. These expensively produced Ivy League alumni magazines are usually much more conservative than the university, because they are directed at wealthy donors and potential donors. I get one and I almost always want to throw it away. I don’t know why they keep sending me it, since I don’t have that kind of money.

Wow.  Lots of thoughts, but the first one was that I wish this had happened to Clarence Thomas.  All my other thoughts were of all the instances over the years of my white male privilege living in one of the northernmost southern cities, Wilmington, Delaware.  This would NEVER happen to me, at least in Wilmington, because I’m white.

BTW - You are one ignorant ignoramus if you really think that criticizing me will save your victim blaming ass - LOL! Once these folks have you pegged, you’re pegged Peggy!

What is this supposed to mean, anyhow?

Gates will be vindicated.

But the lesson is, racist or not, you’re supposed to answer a policeman’s questions, and you shouldn’t question their actions or yell at them.  ‘Disobeying a Policeman’s Order’ is something they can arrest you for.  So is yelling.  So is being intoxicated (any level).  So are any dozens of things.

And I shared my personal, negative reactions.  Being right is not as important as being alive.

You can tell by their comments that Potfry and most of the other defenders of the racist police action haven’t actually read the police report.

- Cop comes asks for ID
- Cop enters home without permission
- Cop is given ID
- Cop won’t give his own ID
- Cop arrest person on his own front yard
- Charges dropped because they are bogus.

Yeah, makes sense the conserve-a-trolls think that works for America. They also thinks torture works for America. No belief in human rights, the constitution or other fundamental American values. Right wingers in other words.

DN

Top o’ the mornin’ to you Crissa!

I agree with you on being alive versus being right. Of course the ideal is both…but in being given a choice between the two, in most situations most of us would choose to live to fight another day.

Anyhoo..here’s the other side of the story:

Gates, who is seeking an apology, called the incident “deeply painful and traumatic,” and told the newspaper he would use it as the basis for a documentary on “racial profiling.”

A statement from his lawyer, Charles Ogletree, released on Monday said Gates had been unable to enter his damaged front door after returning home from a trip to China. Ogletree, also a Harvard professor, said Gates managed to enter the house through the rear door, and his driver carried in his luggage.

After police arrived at the house, Ogletree said, Gates showed his Harvard identification and driver’s license, and asked the policeman for his name and badge number. The police officer walked away, and when Gates followed him to the porch, he was arrested, Ogletree’s statement said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE56L1L520090722

SO..now the police report makes even LESS sense.

Of course, thanks for the link, it’s still interesting.

The police report says he called someone; that’s really easy to verify, and it’s not in Gates’ version.

DN:  It’s not like the police arrested him for breaking and entering; they needed to verify that Gates and his limo driver were indeed the ‘couple of black men’ trying to open the door.  Your front walk is a public area, and while you can request people leave it, you can’t complain that they used it to get to your door.  That isn’t ‘entering your home’.

WTF did you just say?

WHO called someone? And how the hell do you know what’s in Gates’ FULL version of events. The article only gave the press statement, dumb bot.

And WTFFF is this:

In the void of imagination may dreams be painted. May electronic voids be free for minds wandering alone together by the network.

According to the police, Gates called someone.  It was part of the police reports’ implicit threat to the police.

The lawyer did not include that detail, or the reporter did not, it’s hard to tell.

Anyhow, if you don’t like my poetry, don’t read it.

No one said the police officer didn’t write complete sentences.

But that has no bearing upon his rationality.

Crissa, you’re the one who says your father deserved to be shot.

Most of the rest of us believe it’s possible for the police to be wrong.

VERY ODD

All traces of the ORIGINAL report have disappeared from the Internet. The original link and all others like it are GONE.

All that’s available now is THIS and it is VERY different than the one posted a few days ago. The “facts” are remarkably shortened. The parts where Gates asks for his badge number & the parts where the officer admits he saw Gates ID inside the home are GONE. Also gone: The part where the officer calls for back up after confirming Gates was a resident.

There’s something FISHY here:

Cambridge police Monday invoked an investigatory exemption to the Freedom of Information Act and refused to release the arrest report or answer questions about the incident. They cited the ongoing investigation into the disorderly conduct arrest.

A partially redacted version of the arrest report, however, surfaced online at Boston.com Monday. The Chronicle later posted a version of the document, which Cambridge Police still refused to release Monday afternoon. Cambridge police officials denied leaking the document and continued to refuse access.

http://www.wickedlocal.com/cambridge/news/x631635775/Cambridge-Police-not-releasing-Harvard-prof-Henry-Louis-Gates-arrest-report