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Next entry: Mad Men Monday: Another day late Previous entry: Friday Genius Ten “Wild West” Edition

Whitey McWhiterson, Sam, And Their Pal Darko Black, Who Is, Ironically, White

Race

Below is a photo from TaniaGail, taken at the 8/28 “I Don’t Have A Dream” Rally.

Jim Treacher, on behalf of all tolerant conservatives everywhere, posts a list of news articles talking about the startling whiteness of the rally, followed by the single most predictable line in the history of writing:

“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

OOOOOOOHHHHHHHH!  He GOT them reporters!  Fuck those people, they ain’t got shit, because they mentioned race!  And Glenn Beck purposefully forgot he was invoking Martin Luther King, Jr. (but still invited MLK’s niece) because he believes in the same colorblindness that Martin Luther King, Jr….er, didn’t.

Notice (if you click through to the list) that Treacher doesn’t link to the text of the speech.  That’s because it says stuff like this:

One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languishing in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. So we have come here today to dramatize a shameful condition.

It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked “insufficient funds.” But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. So we have come to cash this check — a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice. We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of now.

This sweltering summer of the Negro’s legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. Those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights.

We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro’s basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as our children are stripped of their selfhood and robbed of their dignity by signs stating “For Whites Only”. We cannot be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.

As much as it’s comforting to believe that the I Have A Dream speech began 80% of the way in with King’s sonorous voice ringing out parallel exhortations over the Mall, there exists one small problem.  He said a bunch of other things that really, really mattered

The point of King’s work wasn’t that one day two dour white dudes would find the rarest black man of all - the one with a fanny pack - and take a picture with him in order to show other black people that they were angry and terrible.  The point was that black people had legitimate and substantial grievances, and that they should be willing to take drastic steps to rectify them.  The “content of their character” line was not a call for colorblindness, it was a call for progress with full cognizance of America’s sordid history and relationship with race.

There’s a reason none of the conservative “heirs” to King’s legacy can ever be bothered to read any but the last few lines of that speech.  It’s because if they did, they would legitimize every person they’ve called a race hustler and poverty pimp since the march on Selma.

 

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Posted by Jesse Taylor on 12:17 PM • (301) Comments

They look incredibly racist. Non-racists people don’t need to take photo ops to prove they aren’t racist.  They aren’t talking with him, or laughing or doing anything real “friends” would do. Or even just non-racist people. They more than likely found him and asked for this awful photo and he obliged. Still very, very racist and insulting on top of it because they honestly believe we won’t see through shit like this.

Comment #1: UltraMagnus  on  08/30  at  12:48 PM

If they’re positively grassroots based on the DC population that place should have had atleast a sizable black conservative movement, right?  Oh, it didn’t?  Never mind, I mean they’re still not racists because they aren’t twisting the words of a civil rights leader to support their own de facto racist agenda, right? They are?  Oh uh…Yeah.  I am starting to think this has been the Beck plan all along, just use “Network” as the basis for how to run the whole show.  Turn that white suburban aging hatred into something productive to line your pockets and watch them make fools of themselves. 

Funny that they managed to get a niece of MLK to say something but couldn’t get the SCLC to come down and share in their good tidings.  The whole conservative movement is starting to fall into this rage implosion that any extreme-wing movement faces, the fact they’re able to hold it together is probably more a testament to the money that Fox and others pour into it and the centralized authority they use to choose who speaks.  I’ll be interested to see how this pans out in November because if it fails to win them the house (the senate is surely staying democratic) how is Beck going to excuse this over sized fascist rally from hell?

Comment #2: Xeranar  on  08/30  at  12:53 PM

The whole teabagger movement is all about fear and anger over the excruciatingly gradual death of white hetero male privilege. There’s really no point in trying to go into it deeper than that- there’s no there there.

Comment #3: Steve LaBonne  on  08/30  at  12:57 PM

It’s not surprising that conservatives try to white-wash MLK Jr.‘s speech - it’s common for most white politicians to erase his fight for economic equality, so I guess the next step is to just erase everything he ever stood for.

Comment #4: Sarah TX  on  08/30  at  12:58 PM

I hope that guy charged those idiots for the photo op. He could have made a fortune at that rally.

Comment #5: Col Bat Guano  on  08/30  at  01:01 PM

Not being racist, you’re doing it wrong. Also, this is exactly why he said not to bring signs. I think conservatives are shocked that after whiteness being the default, “normal” and white gatherings being seen as just an assembly of “hard-working Americans”, people are beginning to notice that they, too have a race. If they wanted to short-term parry, they could just point out the profound whiteness of many leftist branches, but in the long run, if this is a diversity contest, they know they’d lose hands down.

Additionally, after calling Lewis a bald-faced liar a few months back, they’ve ran out of living Civil Rights activists to refrain from demonizing. Hmm. If I remember correctly, the most ardent opponents also thought “the only good Civil Rights activist is a dead one”...

Comment #6: Selena777  on  08/30  at  01:10 PM

Col Bat Guano says:  I hope that guy charged those idiots for the photo op. He could have made a fortune at that rally.

LOL!!  I was thinking the same thing!  Hopefully some enterprising BlackBrown residents of DC were able to take advantage of the moneymaking opportunities - supply their own signs, gullible bigots available everywhere!

Comment #7: CParis  on  08/30  at  01:13 PM

There’s a reason none of the conservative “heirs” to King’s legacy can ever be bothered to read any but the last few lines of that speech.

Well, that and it would be kinda at odds with their take on the 14th Amendment.

As for that photo, methinks the Know-Nothings do protest too much.

Comment #8: Gracchus.  on  08/30  at  01:13 PM

I wonder how long it took them, wandering with their signs, to find a black person in that crowd?

And how many black people they asked to pose with them who looked at their signs and collapsed giggling?

Comment #9: Dr. Psycho  on  08/30  at  01:21 PM

He [MLK]said a bunch of other things that really, really mattered.

Preach it, Jesse!

Comment #10: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/30  at  01:21 PM

Proposed caption:

“See, we deigned touch a black man, do we look racist now, huh, libs?” (off camera: using Purel after camera man is gone)

How low is the not-racist bar to them? “Seen in presence of a black person and we weren’t in the process of lynching him”? That’s, like, the minimum of acceptable behavior in a civilized society.

Comment #11: BlackBloc  on  08/30  at  01:22 PM

Xeranar at 2: I slightly disagree. The Tea Party is just a manifestation of the substantial portion of the American electorate that has been unhappy when a Democratic President has been in office. FDR had the Liberty League, Truman the Dixiecrats, JFK and LBJ, the Birchers, and Clinton the ditto-heads. Only Carter seems to have been an exception. There would have been something like the Tea Party even if we had a White, male and Protestant Democratic President. However, the fact that Barack Obama is African-American greatly exasperates the situation, so racism does play an extraordinarily large role in the process.

Comment #12: Lee  on  08/30  at  01:28 PM

Also, these bigots think they’re being clever by referencing this hi-larious t-shirt. But of course, they believe that all liberals are as stupid as they believe n*ggers are.

Comment #13: Gracchus.  on  08/30  at  01:30 PM

Don’t judge Glenn by the colorfulness of his character, but by content of his shirt.

Scared of his own crowd.

Comment #14: Yamara  on  08/30  at  01:37 PM

Cracka-ass crackas!

Comment #15: norbizness  on  08/30  at  01:40 PM

Wow. The I-was-able-to-pose-for-a-picture-with-a-black-man defense. That’s right up there with that judge who wouldn’t marry interracial couples claiming he wasn’t racist because he let black people use his bathroom.

Comment #16: Phoebe Fay  on  08/30  at  01:42 PM

Jesse, I’m not surprised your negrosity has prevented you from see that White Men, as the only genuinely neutral people, naturally stripped away all of the extra stuff from Dr. King’s speech to leave the only the most important part:  The part that best supports their political aims.  And once the context is removed they’re the kind of Norman Rockwell, Hallmark-style benign statements that everyone can agree with.

The rest of MLK’s speech is just too problematic.  All that liberalism.  All that truth.  Just too much to make for a nice easily digestible sound-bite for the teabagging proles.

Personally, I find it fascinating (and appalling) that people (many of whom were around at the time) who probably hated Dr. King when he was alive, who thought he was an agent of Communism, who couldn’t understand why all those Negroes were so upset, can convince themselves decades later that they were sympathetic to the Civil Rights cause and toward MLK.

I grew up around those people, heard what they said behind closed doors to their all-white (and presumably sympathetic) families, and I’m old enough that I heard it when MLK was still alive.  And they didn’t like him.  At all.  And had no sympathy whatsoever for the grievances of African-Americans.  In fact didn’t understand why those uppity Negroes didn’t just shut-up and go quietly back into the woodwork of American life and be damn glad they hadn’t been lynched.  People who accepted American Apartheid as a normal and natural thing.  People who didn’t mind them living here, if they kept to themselves (‘Birds of a feather flock together’ as my father’s father would tell me, at age 6-7-8 or so).

The disconnect between reality and what these people want to believe about themselves is breathtaking.  And really frightening.  And deeply disgusting…

Comment #17: MikeEss  on  08/30  at  01:42 PM

This is tied into the conservative concern-trolling that black people vote overwhelmingly Democratic because Democrats have tricked them (which is itself pretty insulting to black people).  Tea Partiers think their movement is totally rational, and everyone should be all for it, even though “cut taxes for rich people and cut benefits for everyone else” is only rational to the disadvantaged in our country if you’re a Randian nutjob.

Comment #18: Ferox  on  08/30  at  01:50 PM

MikeEss at 17: Aint’t that the truth. I grew up in different circumstances, in a sterotypical liberal Jewish home in the NYC metro area. The Tea Party people are even more alien to me than they are to you. I’ve never encountered any group like them growing up. I simply can’t understand the thought process they go through, its so illogical that it seems that nobody could really and truly believe it.

The issue is what to do about it. At this point I don’t know. These people have enough political strength under the American political system to obstruct anybody who actually disagrees with them. They pass their beliefs onto their children, as is their right, only increasing the problems in future generations. Other countries aren’t exactly free of Tea Party sorts either but they tend to exist in smaller numbers and lack the same obstruction ability.

Comment #19: Lee  on  08/30  at  01:51 PM

Fuck yeah, Jesse. Fuck yeah.

Comment #20: Cris  on  08/30  at  01:51 PM

“I’ve never encountered any group like them growing up. I simply can’t understand the thought process they go through, its so illogical that it seems that nobody could really and truly believe it.”

There have been many times in my life when I can honestly say that I wish I didn’t know all too well what the kind of people inclined to be teabaggers are really like.  That is something I got first hand, growing up poor white (conservative) trash in California, whether I wanted it or not. 

I am grateful that my mother, in her own way, was liberal enough (for a deeply conservative and religious woman) to raise us to understand that racism, at least in its most blatant forms, was wrong.  If I hadn’t had that moderating influence, I shudder to think of the racist/sexist/bigot I might have been (not that I’m not still a racist/sexist/bigot to a larger extent than I wish, but I could have easily been so much worse)...

Comment #21: MikeEss  on  08/30  at  02:05 PM

Turn that white suburban aging hatred

Are you kidding me?  Again with the racist=old thing?  One more time, folks:  young.  whites.  are.  racist.  According to polls they are more racist than their parents even.

I slightly disagree. The Tea Party is just a manifestation of the substantial portion of the American electorate that has been unhappy when a Democratic President has been in office

No, totally different.  The enemies of FDR, Truman, LBJ and Clinton were motivated by ideology.  The enemies of Obama are motivated by race.  That’s why people have such a fascination with the tea party:  it is the first mass white identity politics movement since the 1920’s.

I grew up in different circumstances, in a sterotypical liberal Jewish home in the NYC metro area

Which is why you support the mass immigration of virtulently anti-semetic hispanics.  Yeah, you really have that whole “logic” think on lock, don’t you? 

The “content of their character” line was not a call for colorblindness

True, but it doesn’t really matter, does it?  What matters is that white people still interpret it as a call for color blindness and that is why King is so beloved by white Americans.  If white people understood what King really meant, they would never have deified him the way that they have.

Comment #22: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  02:08 PM

Back when the Soviet Union was at its heydey, it used to get the occasional aging hippie defecting to it.  This was inevitably trotted out as a sure sign that the USSR was a Worker’s Paradise, totally more attractive than the lousy old West.  About as convincing as this.

Comment #23: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/30  at  02:12 PM

Beat it Mckay.  Leave the trolling to the pros.

Comment #24: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  02:12 PM

That picture is about as ironically racist as you can get, treating a black man like property for the sake of a photo-op.

If you ask me, the more conservatives pretend to not be racist, the more racist they sound.

Comment #25: Albert Cirrus  on  08/30  at  02:13 PM

One more time, folks:  young.  whites.  are.  racist.  According to polls they are more racist than their parents even.

Citation, Please

That’s why people have such a fascination with the tea party:  it is the first mass white identity politics movement since the 1920’s.

Dixicrat.  Look it up.

Which is why you support the mass immigration of virtulently anti-semetic hispanics.

Citation, Please

If white people understood what King really meant, they would never have deified him the way that they have.
Comment #22: Stick Rool

Uhm… Jesse just quoted a number of ML King’s more fiery statements in the speech, and we still agree with the Reverend Dr.  Please leave your projection in your entertainment room.

Comment #26: cynickal  on  08/30  at  02:21 PM

This is probably not going to be worth it but Stick Rool:

1. I do not think that I’ve ever stated my position on Hispanic or any other type of immigration on this blog. I’ve talked about various aspects of immigration law but I’ve never posted my own opinions, which are pro-immigrant though.

2. More importantly, Hispanic immigrants anti-Semitic WTF? I live in Williamsburg, Brooklyn along the Puerto Rican-Satmar zone, as opposed to the Polish-Hipster zone, and I’ve never saw any animosity between the groups. As an immigration lawyer, I also know many Hispanics and I’ve never encountered any anti-Semitism.

3. A person can be motivated by race and ideology at the same time. Also, I disagree with your contention that the enemies of FDR and other Democratic presidents were motivated by ideology. They were mainly motivated by moronic conspiracy theories about Communism and fears that a Democratic President would take their money away and give it the wrong sort. With Truman and LBJ, there was a definite racial tinge to this even though both were white.

Comment #27: Lee  on  08/30  at  02:41 PM

Citation, Please

On Hispanic anti-semetism:  Well, you could actually try watching Univison’s mideast coverage if you want, but if that’s too much effort for you, you can just read about the reaction in Hispanic highschools in CA to the Turkish flotilla raid a couple of months ago.

As for young whites being racist, try speaking to one.  But if that doesn’t do it for you:  http://www.hamilton.edu/news/polls/Economics/

Uhm… Jesse just quoted a number of ML King’s more fiery statements in the speech, and we still agree with the Reverend Dr.

Uhm… the Pandagon community is hardly a good representation of white America.

Comment #28: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  02:43 PM

They came all the way from home with those signs. Imagine what would have happened if they had stood on the wrong sides.

Comment #29: paul  on  08/30  at  02:44 PM

“And even then left wing rags…”

Citation for this.  Support for the USSR was pretty much dead outside of a few hardcore (radical leftists — yes I said it!) nuts after Stalin took the reins…

”...and select morons were touting the ussr as a workers paradise.”

And there are “select morons” in every group.  Just as there are a handful on the left who think Communism is where we should be, there are nutbags on the right who are adamant about creating an America exclusively for white, Protestant, conservative people, and are willing to resort to any measures in order to achieve that.  And I think we both know that if the rightwing idiots have to accept a rightwing dictatorship to achieve their aims, they’re probably okay with that.

The mere existence of radicals does not indicate the universal acceptance of their radical ideas, left or right.

“Own it libs.”

I’ll tell you what:  You own Randy Weaver, Timothy McVeigh, David Koresh, St0rmfr0nt, Ge0rge Linc0ln R0ckwell, the KKK, the CCC, the Holocaust Deniers, the whole “Christian Identity” movement, and the rest of the Reichwing nutjobs, and then we can talk about whether everyone to the left of Ronald Reagan must be responsible for everything that some ultra-leftist nutjob has done or claims to believe…

...and BTW, if you try to pull out that idiotic J0nah G0ldberg crap about the Crazy Right being the same as the Crazy Left (“they’re all liberal!”), then you’ve pretty much demonstrated why you need therapy instead of commenting of Pandagon…

Comment #30: MikeEss  on  08/30  at  02:47 PM

14: Actually, he’s talked before about being targeted by the government for elimination. It might well be that he trusts his followers, but is actually batshit crazy enough to believe that the Democrats are going to assassinate him.

Comment #31: Left_Wing_Fox  on  08/30  at  02:49 PM

I do not think that I’ve ever stated my position on Hispanic or any other type of immigration on this blog.

You didn’t have too.  It’s obvious from your personality type.

I live in Williamsburg, Brooklyn along the Puerto Rican-Satmar zone

Puerta Ricans aren’t Mexicans, for starters.  Second of all, how people get a long as neighbors means nothing about how racist they are or aren’t.  Before SB1070, latinos and whites got along great in Arizona, now they won’t even speak to eachother (I was just there, I saw it with my own two eyes), and the law isn’t even being enforced yet.

With Truman and LBJ, there was a definite racial tinge to this even though both were white.

True, but with Truman and LBJ everybody knew that America was still a white country and that blacks were still a relatively small, albeit important, part of the Dem coalition.  With Obama it is much more clear that the Dems are a black/hispanic group interest party.

Comment #32: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  02:53 PM

I slightly disagree. The Tea Party is just a manifestation of the substantial portion of the American electorate that has been unhappy when a Democratic President has been in office. FDR had the Liberty League, Truman the Dixiecrats, JFK and LBJ, the Birchers, and Clinton the ditto-heads.

Each of those represent largely different groups with different ideologies though clinton’s opponents are largely the same as now, each group had less ideology backing them as their positions were exposed as both illogical and evil (the liberty league had isolationism, dixiecrats racism).  They’re basically down this brazen love affair with money and power. 

Are you kidding me?  Again with the racist=old thing?  One more time, folks:  young.  whites.  are.  racist.  According to polls they are more racist than their parents even.

Cite a poll.  Last I checked racism was on the wane by age group and location.  It is growing in places but the comparable overall class and generational nature of racism is trending towards the old.  Does it excuse young folks from it? Of course not, but it doesn’t exclude anybody really.  The fact that the tea party as a whole is over 45 was what I was pointing at. 

Also, calling Hispanics anti-Semitic as a group is a stretch.  It is true Catholic nations tend to be more Anti-Semitic than other lands they are by no means virulent or even largely engaged in violent or oppressive attacks.  America already has established rules on such activities and one cannot simply usurp the nature of such laws, this is why conservative trolls are so hilarious when they pull this.  They think it works like with gay marriage, if the majority doesn’t want it it doesn’t happen but that is the definition of a democratic republic, the majority have a voice but aren’t allowed to trample the rights of the minorities.

Comment #33: Xeranar  on  08/30  at  02:56 PM

I don’t recall anyone moaning about “taking our country back” when five Republican shitballs in black robes stole an election for an idiot frat-boy prince.

Comment #34: Bitter Scribe  on  08/30  at  03:05 PM

King was speaking to an important truth: the United States of America, through government policy and broader social practice, actively worked to impoverish its black population.  That’s the truth white America, be it crackers like stick rool and McKay, or far too many “well meaning” liberals and moderates just don’t want to deal with.  That’s what King was trying to address.  Ignoring the rest of the speech whitewashes what the United States was/is.

Here’s a little John Lewis from the same March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S_l9wtsleI&feature=player_embedded

Comment #35: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  03:06 PM

Again this isn’t going to be worth it but its a necessity:

Stick Rool, you posted that Hispanics are anti-Semitic with some ridiculous comment about Univision as your “evidence”. When I confronted you, you switched to Mexicans and said that they are different from Puerto Ricans. Both groups are Hispanics. Legally, people who are Spanish Spanish (as in from Spain) also count as Hispanic on the Census form). So do Italian-Argentinians. Hispanic covers a wide variety of people. You can’t make any sweeping opinions about hundreds of millions of people based on something you saw on Univision and you can’t say that an Hispanic group is not really Hispanic when confronted with evidence contrary to your opinion.

Comment #36: Lee  on  08/30  at  03:07 PM

Also, calling Hispanics anti-Semitic as a group is a stretch.

No it isn’t.  Witness the reaction to the Israel/Turkey/Gaza incident in Latino California high schools.  You would have thought you were looking at high schools in Dearborn.

Cite a poll.

Just did, not that it will make any difference.  Youth=anti-racist is a religious belief on the left, no amount of proof will ever get you to think of young whites as anything but pro diversity.

or even largely engaged in violent or oppressive attacks

You’re right, they save their mass killing for their black neighbors who they are currently violently ethnically cleansing from neighborhoods all across SoCal.

America already has established rules on such activities and one cannot simply usurp the nature of such laws

Laws only matter if they get enforced.  For example, the American government has decided not to enforce it’s immigration laws so there is nothing to illegals from coming here.  Similarly, LA has decided to not enforce it’s “no murdering” laws as long as the perps are Hispanic and the victims are black so their is nothing to stop Hispanics from driving blacks out of neighborhoods that their families have lived in for generations.

Comment #37: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  03:09 PM

When I confronted you, you switched to Mexicans and said that they are different from Puerto Ricans

They are.  When people say Hispanics/Illegals, they mean Mexicans or atleast Central Americans. 

Puerto Ricans aren’t illegal and are very racially diverse, which makes them a lot different than Mexicans.  Yeah, they’re both Hispanics.  But I wasn’t talking about Puerto Ricans and nobody who talks about immigration is refferring to them either.

Comment #38: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  03:13 PM

As for young whites being racist, try speaking to one.  But if that doesn’t do it for you:  http://www.hamilton.edu/news/polls/Economics/

How does that demonstrate racism?

That particular poll demonstrates that black teens have higher expectations that they will do better than their parents than white teens do—which, statistically, would suggest that either the US is becoming less racist, or black teens think the US is becoming less racist, as black teens think that the general trend white teens are seeing (that the gains of the middle class are sliding) does not apply to them… which strongly suggests that they think there’s another factor working in their favor. The only other factor that could possibly be in effect that would make the outlook for “blacks doing better than their parents” better than “whites doing better than their parents” would be lessened racism.

As for the performance of Barack Obama, Obama’s a personal hero to many, many black people, and if you’re subjected to non-stop propaganda about how terrible a guy is, the opinion you form is going to be *very* heavily based on whether he’s a personal hero (in which case, the propaganda is awful mean lies) or he’s just someone you thought was decent enough to vote for (in which case, the propaganda suggests that maybe you made a terrible mistake.) It’s all about who you’d prefer to believe in—the media or Obama. And this particular figure makes no suggestion that black and white teens differ significantly from older generations in this perception, either. (also, keep in mind, 90% of all black people vote Democratic in general; only 30% of white people consistently do so. So figures saying 70% of black people approve of a Democratic president and only 21% of white people do actually looks reasonably close to the nationwide averages for who strongly identifies with the Democrats.)

You can’t just toss any old poll in the air and claim it proves your point. I saw no claim in that poll that would even support the idea that young whites are racist, let alone becoming more racist than their parents.

Comment #39: Alara J Rogers  on  08/30  at  03:31 PM

How does that demonstrate racism?

Dissaproval of Obama is inherently racist. 

only 30% of white people consistently do so

42, not 30.  I don’t know where you got that number.

I saw no claim in that poll that would even support the idea that young whites are racist, let alone becoming more racist than their parents.

Who cares what they claimed?  The facts are Obama’s approval amongst white, likely voters is around 38%.  His approval amongst white high schoolers is a ridiculously low 21%.  It is obvious from the poll that young whites are more racist than older whites.

Comment #40: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  03:40 PM

Ai yi yi. One of the great things about the aftermath of this type of fuckery by the “tea party” types is the massive logic fail that follows in the follow-up as the aging white people who organized it all and paid for most of the crowd to be there break their arms trying to pat themselves on the back.
I’m willing to bet that we had more"diversity” in my small town rural MN high school than those jokers did in Washington D.C.

Comment #41: Danica Lefse Queen  on  08/30  at  03:46 PM

You’re right, they save their mass killing for their black neighbors who they are currently violently ethnically cleansing from neighborhoods all across SoCal.
Laws only matter if they get enforced.  For example, the American government has decided not to enforce it’s immigration laws so there is nothing to illegals from coming here.  Similarly, LA has decided to not enforce it’s “no murdering” laws as long as the perps are Hispanic and the victims are black so their is nothing to stop Hispanics from driving blacks out of neighborhoods that their families have lived in for generations.

I laughed really hard reading those.  It’s hilarious.  Now I see what the others call a “concern troll” because you pretend to care about the racial divide then promptly prop up a fictitious government to blame the problems of racial hatred on.  Far as I know LA has had a downtrend in murders and in most cases in urban cities the poorest neighborhoods of the late 20th century have been minorities ones so they get a technical double-whammy of minority status along with poverty.  Really your argument holds no weight in any respect. 

As for the poll apparently you posted if anything look at the polling numbers of any sitting president towards the end of their term or in a crisis.  Public opinion falls like water once a disaster happens or something isn’t going well enough.  21% among whites is probably more do to the disproportionate representation of conservatives in the mix rather than race and frankly I would argue that that poll shows nothing about race at all.

Comment #42: Xeranar  on  08/30  at  03:47 PM

“Dissaproval of Obama is inherently racist.”

Huh?  That sounds like something you think a StrawLiberal believes.

Sorry, dude, but the Reichwing is where you find the dissent=treason meme.  Goose-step the correct way, while wearing the correct uniform, and spouting the correct talking points, or face the wrath of God! (or Ru5h Limba4gh…)

On the Left, people are far more likely to disagree on all sorts of things without it turning into something bigger than a disagreement…

Comment #43: MikeEss  on  08/30  at  03:51 PM

Witness the reaction to the Israel/Turkey/Gaza incident in Latino California high schools.

Wha?  You do know that Palestinians are Semites as well as downtrodden, right?  And that being against use of force against civilians or against use of force outside of jurisdiction has nothing to do with Semitism, right?

Comment #44: Crissa  on  08/30  at  03:59 PM

#5 - That’s what I was thinking.  Some entrepreneurial people could have made a tidy sum at that rally by charging for photos with A REAL LIVE BLACK PERSON.

Comment #45: BadKitty  on  08/30  at  04:15 PM

Now I see what the others call a “concern troll” because you pretend to care about the racial divide

I don’t care and certainly don’t pretend too.  You, however claim to care about the well being of blacks.  All I did was point out the inconvenient truth that your favorite racial group is conducting a brutal (and extremely effective) race war against your second favorite racial group in Southern California.  Don’t shoot the messenger.

You do know that Palestinians are Semites

You know that anti-semetism means anti-Jewish, right?

And that being against use of force against civilians or against use of force outside of jurisdiction has nothing to do with Semitism, right?

I would say the rallies where Hispanic students talked about killing Jews indicates more just distaste for Israel’s foreign policy.

That sounds like something you think a StrawLiberal believes.

It’s also reality.  If a white person dissaproves of Obama the chances are overwhelming that they dissaprove of him for racial reasons although there are a very small number who dissaprove because they think he isn’t liberal enough. 

As for the poll apparently you posted if anything look at the polling numbers of any sitting president towards the end of their term or in a crisis

Hmmmm… yet Obama remains very popular amongst black and hispanic youths.  I wonder why young whites don’t share the pro Obama sentiment of their black and hispanic peers?

Comment #46: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  04:17 PM

Crissa at 46: The term anti-Semite was coined by German journalist Wilhelm Marr in the late 1870s, as a more “scientific” replacement for the old word Jew-hatred. It does not mean hatred of Semites, it means hatred of Jews. This really shouldn’t have to be repeated everytime the subject comes up.

It might be better for all of us to focus on Jesse’s point and just ignore Stick Rool.

Comment #47: Lee  on  08/30  at  04:22 PM

It might be better for all of us to focus on Jesse’s point and just ignore Stick Rool.

Jesse and I are making the same point.

Comment #48: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  04:25 PM

Dissaproval of Obama is inherently racist.

Okay, Stick Rool is either dumb or playing dumb as part of a silly game of Poke-The-Liberal.  I disapproved of Obama’s handling of the HCR bill, which I thought wound up as a shameless giveaway to the insurance industry.  Strangely, I don’t think that the President is a secret Kenyan Muslim Communist agent, nor a clandestine Black Panther proxy out to give Whitey some payback.

To be fair, there’s plenty of racism tied in with many Americans’—such as the Teabaggers—dislike of the President.  But the only people I hear claiming that disapproval of Obama *automatically*=racism are racist whites trying to give themselves cover for believing the most ludicrous things about him; like when someone calls them racist for loudly insisting that a Black president can’t possibly be a Real American.  Then it’s “ZOMG you’re calling me racist just because I don’t like the Secret Stalinist Ghetto Avenger!”

Comment #49: Sour Kraut  on  08/30  at  04:25 PM

I disapproved of Obama’s handling of the HCR bill, which I thought wound up as a shameless giveaway to the insurance industry.

This act is growing tiresome.  Everybody knows that 95% of whites who dissaprove of Obama are racist.  True, some might dissaprove of Obama because he isn’t as far to the left as they would like but the overwhelming bulk of anti-Obama sentiment is racially based.

Comment #50: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  04:30 PM

Secret Stalinist Ghetto Avenger sounds like a great name for a comic, one that would scare the living hell out of teabaggers…

Comment #51: MikeEss  on  08/30  at  04:34 PM

I don’t care and certainly don’t pretend too.

And yet, it keeps posting, its burning apathy driving it relentlessly onward.

Hi-larious.

Comment #52: Yamara  on  08/30  at  04:41 PM

Stick Rool:

I do not think that I’ve ever stated my position on Hispanic or any other type of immigration on this blog.

You didn’t have too. It’s obvious from your personality type.

Ironically, from this statement alone, we can deduce a lot more about your “personality type” than we can about Lee’s.

Also, I work with high school kids. I have spent plenty of time trying to talk politics with them, and as a general rule, high school kids don’t have the first fucking clue what they’re talking about when it comes to politics, and that’s if they even care in the first place. And surprise, surprise, the very first finding of that poll you cited is that teenagers know diddly-shit about economics.

If you’re polling people, regardless of age, on their opinions on economics and your first finding is that they don’t know what the hell they’re talking about, you’d be an idiot to proceed as if the rest of the poll had any validity whatsoever.

Comment #53: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  08/30  at  04:43 PM

Stick Rule Stick Rool.

It’s pulling ‘facts’ out of its ass in a vain attempt to rile folks up.  It changes definitions in a way that would make Humpty Dumpty proud.

There’s no use trying to teach it anything, b/c it’s dumber than a stick.

Comment #54: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/30  at  04:46 PM

And yet, it keeps posting, its burning apathy driving it relentlessly onward.

What white liberals think, I care about.  The well being of America’s minority groups, not so much.

Comment #55: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  04:47 PM

Stick Rool

Everybody knows that 95% of whites who dissaprove of Obama are racist.

Prove it. Nothing less than a notarized statement from every single person on the planet, stating that they know that 95% of whites who disapprove of Obama are racist, will suffice.

You’d best get cracking. You have a lot of work to do.

Comment #56: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  08/30  at  04:49 PM

“Everybody knows that 95% of whites who dissaprove of Obama are racist.”

Saying that he’s not an American, wondering “who is he?”, comparing him to apes/monkeys, comparing him to a witch doctor, photoshopping a picture showing watermelons being cultivated in front of the White House — racist.

Saying that he should send more troops to Afghanistan (or less), saying that you think the Stimulus was wrong (or should have been larger), thinking that the deficit should take priority above all else (or it doesn’t matter) — those are policy disagreements.  They may be right or wrong, and the person advocating them may have racist reasons for their beliefs, but the statements, on face value, aren’t inherently racist…

Comment #57: MikeEss  on  08/30  at  04:52 PM

If you’re polling people, regardless of age, on their opinions on economics and your first finding is that they don’t know what the hell they’re talking about, you’d be an idiot to proceed as if the rest of the poll had any validity whatsoever.

It is possible to simultaneously be both a racist AND an idiot.  You know that, right?

Comment #58: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  04:55 PM

and the person advocating them may have racist reasons for their beliefs

Exactly.  Glad we agree.

Comment #59: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  04:56 PM

It is possible to simultaneously be both a racist AND an idiot.  You know that, right?

You demonstrate it.

Comment #60: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  04:58 PM

<blockquote>and the person advocating them may have racist reasons for their beliefs

Exactly.  Glad we agree. </blockquote>

You just admitted that you think every policy position is racist.

You’ll be prevaricating in a second, but I think that wraps up anything you have to say, or have said.

Consider the content of your character judged.

Comment #61: Yamara  on  08/30  at  05:04 PM

You just admitted that you think every policy position is racist.

Way to make sense.

Comment #62: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  05:06 PM

Debating with trolls is always such a fascinating thing. Its kind of a necessity to engage them in conversation because otherwise it looks like they won rather than sensible people are just ignoring them if you don’t try to refute them. The problem is that trying to even participate in a basic conversation with trolls is futile, at best you are going to get endless rehashing of their arguments coupled with some play-ground taunting at its most mature.

Comment #63: Lee  on  08/30  at  05:07 PM

Also, let’s not get distracted by the troll from this contribution by a colorblind white man:

http://deusexeverriculum.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/colbert_black_friend.jpg

Comment #64: Yamara  on  08/30  at  05:09 PM

“What white liberals think, I care about.  The well being of America’s minority groups, not so much.”

Appreciate the honesty, but that’s just a stupid and racist thing to say.  And it pretty much proves what an asshole you are (which we all figured anyway).  You’d probably add that the only reason you care what “white liberals” think is “know your enemy”, right?

We’re all living in this country (or on this planet).  If we make the lives of one group a living hell, we’ve at least incrementally made things worse for all of us.  One would think anybody who’s a functioning adult would know that…but I guess that leaves you out, doesn’t it…

Comment #65: MikeEss  on  08/30  at  05:09 PM

No.  My point has been that young whites are more racist then older whites in contrast to your endless bullshit claim that young white people are pro-diversity.  I cited a poll that clearly proved that was in fact the case.  Y’all responded by saying that the poll doesn’t prove what it clearly does and then declared victory.

Everything I’ve said I’ve provided evidence before.  You just choose to ignore the evidence.  This is similar to an evolutionist debating an ID proponent.  No amount of evidence is good enough.

Comment #66: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  05:14 PM

Did you know that 68.9% of statistics are made up on the spot?  See?  I can do it, too!  Here’s some more:

Trolls are 3 times as likely as the average commentor to have way too much time on their hands.

72% of trolls don’t care what they talk about as long as they get a rise out of other commentors.

Less than 13% of trolls are able to exercise real logic in their arguments.

“I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”, etc., etc.

Trolls have disgusting table manners.  Don’t feed them.

Comment #67: mythbri  on  08/30  at  05:15 PM

Appreciate the honesty, but that’s just a stupid and racist thing to say.

MikeEss, of course it’s a racist thing to say. He’s an openly and proudly racist person and has been since he appeared here. Calling a statement racist of his is a “well duh” sort of thing.  He doesn’t think racism is a bad thing.  Appealing to a sense of morality in which racism is wrong is doomed to fail with a person who thinks racism is a good thing.

Comment #68: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  05:17 PM

You’d probably add that the only reason you care what “white liberals” think is “know your enemy”, right?

I’m not going to lie, I have no idea why I care.  For some reason white liberals offend me a great deal.

If we make the lives of one group a living hell, we’ve at least incrementally made things worse for all of us.

I’m not trying to make things worse for anybody.  Except for immigrants.

Comment #69: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  05:18 PM

Hey Stick, have you run into Otis the Sweaty lately? How’s he doing?

Comment #70: typist  on  08/30  at  05:32 PM

How’s he doing?

He retired.

Comment #71: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  05:34 PM

It might well be that he trusts his followers, but is actually batshit crazy enough to believe that the Democrats are going to assassinate him.
Left_Wing_Fox@33

He should be more worried that one of his own followers will try to make him a martyr for the cause*.  The longer he talks, the more his crazy shows, and eventually he’ll tip over the edge and he’ll lose whatever credibility he has.  Better that he be forever frozen “at his peak” so his followers can worship him without reality intruding.

[* not, of course, advocating for this at all.  I’ve just seen the extreme right-wing mind up close and personal {shudder}.]

Comment #72: NobleExperiments  on  08/30  at  05:55 PM

I’m not going to lie, I have no idea why I care.  For some reason white liberals offend me a great deal.

Ooh!  Ooh!  I know why!

Because they aren’t racist, and that makes them race traitors!  It’s really offensive that all white people don’t believe that white people are the bestestest!

The fact that not all white people hate other races is really annoying!

Comment #73: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/30  at  05:55 PM

Because they aren’t racist, and that makes them race traitors!

Race traitor is a label I will proudly wear.

Comment #74: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  05:57 PM

I’m not trying to make things worse for anybody.  Except for immigrants.

So, you believe that all Pandagonians are immigrants?

I am sure that everything will be all sunshine and lollipops for people of all races (except the immigrants, of course) if your pipe dream of dismantling our Constitution comes to pass.  Yep, Stick Rool making life better for everybody since he was ... hatched.

Comment #75: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/30  at  06:02 PM

“I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”, etc., etc.

Does throwing in a LoTR quote during a political argument win you the internets? I’m thinking that maybe it should.

Comment #76: rivki  on  08/30  at  06:03 PM

I like to think that the black guy in the pic charged money AND had both the signs and cameraman working with him.

Comment #77: Mark Temporis  on  08/30  at  06:03 PM

‘anti-semite’ doesn’t mean whatever you want it to mean.  It was a replacement for ‘jew-hatred’, yes.  But Palestinians are Semites.  You aren’t even bothering to argue that point.  Therefore anti-semitism means hatred of Palestinians as well.  You don’t get to have to pretty name and then decide what it means afterwards.

And hatred of authority attacking and killing civilians is never anti-semitism.  The race of that authority’s agents or leaders is irrelevant to their actions.  There is no tenet of Judaism or Semitism that says they get to steal other Semites’ land and kill them indiscriminately.  At least, not that I know of.

Comment #78: Crissa  on  08/30  at  06:07 PM

So, you believe that all Pandagonians are immigrants?

Touche.  What I meant to say:  I’m not trying to make life worse for anybody.  Except for immigrants.  And people who support immigrants.

Comment #79: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  06:09 PM

OOh!

ALL immigrants?  Or just the brown ones?

B/c Chicago has lots of illegal immigrants from Poland.  They’re tall and blond and blue-eyed, so they don’t get harrassed as much, but the laws that require documentation are just as hard on them.

How about the Bosnian refugees?  They’re white, too.  They dress in Western clothes.  But they’re still MUSLIM!!!

How far back do you have to go to be an immigrant that is okay?  When did Mama and Papa Stick Rool come to the US?

Comment #80: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/30  at  06:20 PM

I’m not going to lie, I have no idea why I care.  For some reason white liberals offend me a great deal

Since you’ve become introspective, allow me to explain why that is. Survey after survey and study after study show that pro-diversity white liberals tend to be more educated, more affluent (lots of professionals and senior managers), more health- and fitness-oriented, more interested in new cultural experiences, live in major urban areas with lots of interesting activities, etc. We’ve also seen the divorce stats for so-called “blue-state” families vs. “red-state” ones. There’s a definite focus on youthfulness, on the future, and sense of entitlement based mainly on merit and achievement.

Now anti-immigrant white conservatives are an entirely different demographic and psychographic group. There are at least as many non-HS graduates in that group as there are those with a bachelor’s degree, and consequently the great number of them never rise above middle management (there are business owners and entrepreneurs, but the split is likely equal with pro-diversity types). The group also skews older, is not so concerned about physical health,  are interested in lowest-common-denominator culture, and can be found living in exurban areas and non-college small towns. The focus is on the (often mythic) past and a sense of entitlement based on immutable characteristics (skin colour and religion and accident of birth).

Now, as with most bigots, you’re clearly concerned about which group would appeal to a young white person—this is your movement’s future, after all. It comes from the same place as the hysteria over declining white birth rates we see in Europe, where nationalism has more of a hold over public life than it does here.

You express a lot of wishful thinking about the latter, conservative group being the intuitive choice, but your disquiet comes from the fact that you know the former, liberal group’s lifestyles have much more appeal to a young person—I’m sorry, but there are very few young Americans who think it’s cool to be a cranky and bitter out-of-shape middle-aged man whose life is already behind him. This is why the existence of white liberals offends you so much—they offer a far more attractive aspirational choice.

Faced with such an intractable image problem, I suppose I’d resort to this sort of trolling, too, out of sheer frustration. Fortunately, it’s your problem and not mine, so I can just sit back and laugh at Know-Nothing clowns like yourself.

Hope that helps you clarify why you have such a problem with white liberals.

Comment #81: Gracchus.  on  08/30  at  06:21 PM

Therefore anti-semitism means hatred of Palestinians as well.

No it doesn’t.  Hilter and the Nazis had a strong relationship with the Palestinian leaders and were very supportive of the Palestinian cause.  Modern day neo nazis are also pro Palestinian.  So according to you, Hitler and neo-nazis are not anti-semites.  The very term anti semitism was coined to be a more scientific way of expressing antipahty for Jews (it used to just be known as “Jew hatred”).  Logic isn’t really your strong suit.

There is no tenet of Judaism or Semitism

Semetism?  You are a frickin’ nut job.

Comment #82: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  06:25 PM

BTW, “religion” above refers to “birth religion” or “religious heritage” or the like—most of you already get that, but you know how it is with trolls.

Comment #83: Gracchus.  on  08/30  at  06:30 PM

You express a lot of wishful thinking about the latter, conservative group being the intuitive choice, but your disquiet comes from the fact that you know the former, liberal group’s lifestyles have much more appeal to a young person

Talk about projection.  Lady, listen, the stats are there.  You have a 26 year old with a sister in college and a Colbert watching brother who lives in hipster area in Brooklyn who is right here to tell you:  young whites are racist.  I know because I am one, my brother is one, my sister is one, my friends are young whites, my brothers friends/girlfriend are young whites and my sisters friends/boyfriend are young whites.  They do not like blacks.  They do not like hispanics.  We are talking about literally hundreds of middle class young white people that I know personally and every. single. one. is a racist.  If personal experience doesn’t do it for you, I showed you a poll that shows that white kids approve of Obama at an incredibly low rate.  What more do you need?

Fortunately, it’s your problem and not mine, so I can just sit back and laugh at Know-Nothing clowns like yourself.

But you’re not really laughing, are you?  You aren’t laughing, cause you know deep down how whites talk about minorities behind closed doors.  You know that American society isn’t strong enough to handle the 20% unemployment rate that is coming.  You know that you already lost your House majority and that the Senate is only 2 years a way.

Comment #84: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  06:36 PM

But they’re still MUSLIM!!!

But I like Islam, as I explained earlier.  Bosnian immigrants are fine.

Comment #85: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  06:37 PM

Guys, y’all might as well go to stormfront to argue…that’s where billy is most comfortable and the world where he comes from. We’re not dealing with a decent human being; we’re dealing with the worst kind of cracker, the kind who’s pissed he can’t own a black person anymore.

Comment #86: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  06:42 PM

I know because I am one, my brother is one, my sister is one, my friends are young whites, my brothers friends/girlfriend are young whites and my sisters friends/boyfriend are young whites.  They do not like blacks.

Anecdata!

You little racist.  Of course you are related to and friends with other racists.  But that’s not remotely a major demographic.  You and your ilk are a good quarter of the population.  Large enough to be a concern, but not enough to truly threaten the nation.

You are also part of a losing power structure.  All the racists whites weren’t enough to elect McCain.  There are enough minorities and non-racist whites that racists whites can’t ever swing the elections again.

It’s just going to get worse for Whitey as time goes on and America continues to get a little darker.

I’m doing my part, as a race traitor, as will my “stealth Mexican” children.

Comment #87: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/30  at  06:42 PM

And guess why this cracker like muslims…because he thinks they all hate jews.

Comment #88: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  06:43 PM

Leave Glenn Beck Alone!!!

Don’t you know that the real reason Beck had to have Whitestock this weekend is because his fashionable consciousness told him that you can’t have that much white after Labor Day?

smile

Comment #89: DTGslu2K  on  08/30  at  06:43 PM

Hit blaspheme too soon.

You are aware that young white people voted for Barack Obama in higher ratios than older white people?  Which means racism affects their votes less than older whites—the opposite of your claims.

It is amusing that white Muslms, and I assume illegal Poles,  are fine and dandy.  It’s not really about immigration at all then, is it?

We already had a war over this issue.  Your side got its ass handed to it, when all it had to do was defend its territory.

Comment #90: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/30  at  06:46 PM

because he thinks they all hate jews.

Well, they do, but that isn’t the reason that I like muslims.  I’ve explained earlier why I like Islam.

Comment #91: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  06:47 PM

Lady, listen, the stats are there.  You have a 26 year old with a sister in college and a Colbert watching brother who lives in hipster area in Brooklyn who is right here to tell you:  young whites are racist.

Your anecdata doesn’t beat the peer-reviewed work of actual academics like Cahn and Carbone or Florida.

I mean, seriously, Stick Rool, look at the photo Jesse posted. Only a “frickin’ nut job” could imagine that a 16 year old boy would look at those two guys and think: “Uh huh, I want me some of that Beck Rally awesomeness in my future!”

But you’re not really laughing, are you?  You aren’t laughing, cause you know deep down how whites talk about minorities behind closed doors.

As the Avenue Q song goes, “everyone’s a little bit racist.” I’m not arguing otherwise. But that doesn’t translate to political action, at least not in the U.S. I wouldn’t be laughing if I lived in Europe, because ethnic nationalism is more deeply entrenched there. But it’s not American exceptionalism to note that here we are more state than nation.

You know that American society isn’t strong enough to handle the 20% unemployment rate that is coming.

Just like it wasn’t strong enough to weather the Great Depression. And I hate to break it to you, but the actual unemployment rate is over 20% at this point and I don’t see Weimar-style street battles or Cletus taking potshots at elected officials.

You know that you already lost your House majority and that the Senate is only 2 years a way.

Once a mug, always a mug. Beyond appealing to idiots like yourself, do you think the GOP establishment cares any more about skin colour than their Dem counterparts? They care about supplying cheap labour to their real constituents (corporate fatcats), and if they’re in power you’ll still have the same dilemma. They might waste taxpayer money on the magical 2000-mile wall to humour you rubes, but the Republicans aren’t gonna save you.

Or was it the coming race war that was going to save you? Hard to keep things straight when you veer between one and the other. Perhaps you should just give it up and join the Xtian fantasists in praying for the Rapture. I’d only laugh a little harder at that one.

Comment #92: Gracchus.  on  08/30  at  06:50 PM

It’s not really about immigration at all then, is it?

No, it’s not.

Look, I’d rather the Poles and Bosnians go home but I’d be lying if I said I really cared about them being here.

All the racists whites weren’t enough to elect McCain.

Because so many racist whites voted for Obama.  Like my brother and his gf and all of my friends.  I am the only person I know under 30 who voted for McCain, and I know hundreds.  Obama won because he was able to get the votes of so many white racists.  He won’t be able to do that a second time.

Comment #93: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  06:52 PM

Guys, y’all might as well go to stormfront to argue

Not really arguing, just pointing out to Billy (and his hundreds of friends) the source of his dislike of white liberals, who are apparently so small in number and so old that they made actually no difference in the 2008 election. Must be an interesting inner universe he has.

Comment #94: Gracchus.  on  08/30  at  06:53 PM

They might waste taxpayer money on the magical 2000-mile wall to humour you rubes, but the Republicans aren’t gonna save you.

I’m not counting on them to save me.  The economy is going to take care of that.  By the way, are you still predicting that Obama will get amnesty passed in the next session?

Just like it wasn’t strong enough to weather the Great Depression

The country was over 90% white then.  Why don’t you take a look at history to see what happens to multi cultural countries when people can’t find work.

“Uh huh, I want me some of that Beck Rally awesomeness in my future!”

Lol!  Cause you know young white kids see Mathew Yglesias as someone who they want to emulate.

Your anecdata doesn’t beat the peer-reviewed work of actual academics like Cahn and Carbone or Florida.

I’m banging my head against a wall here.  Did you read the poll I linked?  Obama’s approval rating among white high schoolers is 21%.  Now why do you think that they don’t like him?

Comment #95: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  06:59 PM

Touche.  What I meant to say:  I’m not trying to make life worse for anybody.  Except for immigrants.  And people who support immigrants.

If you’re not 100% Native American, shouldn’t you fuck off back to Europe then?

Comment #96: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/30  at  07:03 PM

Not really arguing, just pointing out to Billy (and his hundreds of friends) the source of his dislike of white liberals, who are apparently so small in number and so old that they made actually no difference in the 2008 election.

Ah, this again.  Are you really this stupid or are you just deliberately being obtuse?  Most white people who voted for Obama are racist.  Everybody I know voted for Obama (or didn’t vote), my mom, my siblings and my friends.  Obama came to power on the backs of racist whites.  Once he loses a critical mass of their support (and he probably already has) he is done.

Comment #97: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  07:04 PM

If you’re not 100% Native American, shouldn’t you fuck off back to Europe then?

No.

Comment #98: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  07:05 PM

I’m banging my head against a wall here.

Hit it harder, cracker.

Comment #99: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  07:08 PM

Actually, Stick Rool, America has never been 90% white (it has been just under, but never at or over).  In addition, Mexican-Americans have pretty much always been included in that demographic, just as they are now.

Did you read the poll I linked?  Obama’s approval rating among white high schoolers is 21%.  Now why do you think that they don’t like him?

Um… stalling on DADT and ENDA, continuing the war in Afghanistan, not charging Bush and Co. with war crimes, failing to close GITMO, not helping enough with health insurance and tuition costs, not nationalizing industry, the bailouts, criticizing bloggers….  Wait!  It’s his race, right?  I mean, all he has done is black and all he has failed to do is be white.  No policy issues here.

Comment #100: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/30  at  07:13 PM

”  If you’re not 100% Native American, shouldn’t you fuck off back to Europe then? “

No.

Fucking immigrant anchor baby.  Go home and get the fuck off out of OTHER PEOPLE’S land, parasite.

Comment #101: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/30  at  07:14 PM

Um… stalling on DADT and ENDA, continuing the war in Afghanistan, not charging Bush and Co. with war crimes, failing to close GITMO, not helping enough with health insurance and tuition costs, not nationalizing industry, the bailouts, criticizing bloggers….

So white kids care about those things but black and latino youngsters don’t.  Is that what you are trying to say?

In addition, Mexican-Americans have pretty much always been included in that demographic, just as they are now.

Meh, hispanics/mexicans have been a very small percentage of America historically.  During the Depression I think that they were under 3% of the population and FDR got rid of all of the illegals to help drive down unemployment.  Obama would never do something like that.

Comment #102: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  07:19 PM

Wow, Stick Rool, how’s the weather on your planet?  ‘Cause you sure ain’t from here, son.

Comment #103: GeekGirlsRule  on  08/30  at  07:21 PM

Now why do you think they don’t like him?

The economy, for one. They see their parents barely making it, they see that they’re competing for jobs against adults with families and losing out on money and work experience. They’re barely paying attention now, so they certainly weren’t during the Bush years. *shrugs* Definitely not because they believe that the Black Scourge (TM) has taken over.

Comment #104: Selena777  on  08/30  at  07:21 PM

The economy, for one.

So hispanic and black youth don’t mind the bad economy.  Is that what you are trying to say?

Comment #105: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  07:23 PM

I’m saying the economy has always sucked for black and hispanic youth, so they’re less likely to see the president as the primary causative factor.

Comment #106: Selena777  on  08/30  at  07:28 PM

It’s almost like people actually think this cracker can be reasoned with.

Comment #107: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  07:30 PM

I present for your reading pleasure, Stick Rool as described by the New Republic:

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/77298/muslims-and-conservative-anti-anti-discrimination

Crissa, anti-Semitism has and will always mean hatred of the Jews. The Arabs can’t be anti-Semites because they are Semites meme was invented to overlook some very inconvenient facts about certain subjects in the schools of most Arab countries plus the general media. I suspect you are going to disagree on this, so this is my last post on the topic to avoid flame war.

Comment #108: Lee  on  08/30  at  07:30 PM

So white kids care about those things but black and latino youngsters don’t.  Is that what you are trying to say?

I am saying that “approval” is a very subjective thing.  You are acting like the young people answering the poll are doing so without any awareness of the larger society in which the poll is being conducted and will be received.  Do I approve of President Obama?  Well, yes and no.  That is probably the response of most young Americans.  Polls don’t tend to allow that sort of answer or any sort of nuanced response.  That means that how each individual responds (choosing only one of the two true answers: yes or no) will be a political/calculated choice.  There are fewer consequences to either answer for a white person because they are privileged.  Just because you are an idiot doesn’t mean everyone else is.  The question is different when asked of different demographic groups.  This will show up in the responses.

During the Depression I think that they were under 3% of the population and FDR got rid of all of the illegals to <strike>help drive down unemployment</strike> appease the nativists.

FTFY.  Under 3% of the population cannot, by definition, have much of an impact on unemployment.  Don’t strain yourself with numbers, you aren’t very good (or honest) with them and that doesn’t help your case.

Comment #109: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/30  at  07:32 PM

It’s almost like people actually think this cracker can be reasoned with.

Reasoned with?  My comments might count as “reason” if he had enough self-perception, but basically I’m just mocking him.

Comment #110: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/30  at  07:32 PM

PiaToR…not you, but there are folks responding to him with efforts to refute and convince. Seriously, ignore or laugh. It’s not worth the time or effort. Like I said, folks might as well go to Stormfront. Lost Causers are seriously lost causes.

Comment #111: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  07:35 PM

And, cracker number 2 appears.

Comment #112: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  07:37 PM

Hey Chris…got your sister pregnant yet? I can use another fetus. It’ll go lovely in some gumbo.

Comment #113: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  07:38 PM

It’s hard out there for a cracker.

Comment #114: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  07:46 PM

You know, I’ve been reading here for a long time and I’ve seen so many trolls come and go, and if you put all of them together none of them got even a fraction of a reaction that I get (with the exception of a brilliant gentleman by the name of “jumpinjim” who trolled her briefly during the Sotomayor confirmation, and no, that wasn’t me).  And now we got Jeff here claiming that I’m the one who won’t listen to reason and calling for me to be ignored.  Not even.  You guys know how to handle trolls, you chew them up and spit them out. 

So what is it about me that makes you all start either calling for everybody to ignore me or demanding that Jesse/Amanda ban me?  It’s because the facts are on my side.  I even cited a poll and the response I have gotten has basically just been, “La! La! La!  I can’t heeeeeear you!”

Do you know what is so ironic?  That y’all spend so much time talking about how racist white Americans but then when I come and say the same thing you start trying to make excuses for white people and about how their opposition to Obama really isn’t about race.  Well, this is America:  everything is about race.

Under 3% of the population cannot

I’m just counting citizens, not the illegals.  I’m not sure how many he got rid of, but I think it was almost a million.

The question is different when asked of different demographic groups

Okay, so I guess Bush wasn’t really that unpopular when he left office.  Thanks for clearing that up.

Comment #115: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  07:49 PM

Crissa, etymological fallacy. If a word has a history of being used exclusively in a specific way, that tends to become its meaning. The fact that there’s a 19th-century racial classification called “semitic” doesn’t change what “antisemitic” has always meant. Phyllis Chesler, IMO, was wrong to call Edward Said an antisemite; but the problem is not that he belongs to a Semitic people; it’s that I was not persuaded by her claim, offered without any argument, that his political goals prove he hates Jews as a people. Antisemites, in the dictionary-definition sense of Jew-haters, are real; and the kind (usually secular:  Christian Supremacists are a different animal) who quote Amnesty International or B’Tselem in their attempts to prove that Israeli human rights violations show The Evil of Teh Joos are not shy about saying what they mean—thinking I was going to find serious criticism of Israeli policy, I just ran across a Canadian blogger who every day is “The Jews this” and “The Jews that” and “victims of the Jews, like the Gazans and Mel Gibson” and “the tribal mentality of Noam Chomsky” and so forth.

Apologies for the derail:  hope I saved someone else some arguing energy. Thanks for the “Black People Love Us: ur doin it wrong” picture, Jesse.

Comment #116: Josh  on  08/30  at  07:53 PM

“Why Jeff, your boyfirend cooking for you tonight?”

...and this is insulting how?  You must not know much about MAJeff if you think that’s going to somehow hurt him.  Moron…

Comment #117: MikeEss  on  08/30  at  07:55 PM

But-But, he made a gay joke…Th-that’s s-supposed to be a burn.

Comment #118: Daniel-138  on  08/30  at  07:57 PM

...and this is insulting how?  You must not know much about MAJeff if you think that’s going to somehow hurt him.  Moron…

He’s a parody troll, boss

Comment #119: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  07:57 PM

...and this is insulting how?

Like I would ever let anyone have control of my kitchen!

Comment #120: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  07:59 PM

So what is it about me that makes you all start either calling for everybody to ignore me or demanding that Jesse/Amanda ban me?  It’s because the facts are on my side.  I even cited a poll and the response I have gotten has basically just been, “La! La! La!  I can’t heeeeeear you!”

it is to laugh.  It cited A poll.  It named its anecdata.

People looked at your poll, and told you why it doesn’t prove what you want it to prove.

As for banning you?  Look at your name.  You’ve been though the process before.  Trolls come in, bore us, and get banned.

I’m just happy to see Mike and Jeff posting at the same time again.

Comment #121: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/30  at  07:59 PM

People looked at your poll, and told you why it doesn’t prove what you want it to prove.

Not until I brought it up like 5 times.  And they then came up with two moronic explanations for the results:  1.  That white kids who said they dissaprove of Obama don’t really mean it.  or 2.  That white kids who said the dissaprove of Obama just blame him for the bad economy whereas blacks and hispanic kids are used to not being able to find work.  Those sure are great theories.

Comment #122: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  08:04 PM

I think Mike Ess had been sodomizing Ma Jeff.

That’s a bad thing?

Comment #123: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  08:06 PM

Hey, as long as my wife is okay with it… smile

Comment #124: MikeEss  on  08/30  at  08:10 PM

Hey, I got mad skillz.

Comment #125: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  08:10 PM

I haven’t finished the comments, but I just wanted to keep score of Stick Rool’s logical fallacies. Anecdotal evidence, hand waiving assertions that claims made are self evident when they are not, switching the goalpost, arguing with straw men, and special pleading.

I’m sure I’ll encounter more. It’s a fun game, but ultimately a distraction from the conversation. If Stick Rool isn’t going to be banned for continued thread jacking, maybe he should be banned for setting up a new account to get around a previous ban. =/

Comment #126: Cola82  on  08/30  at  08:15 PM

They are.  When people say Hispanics/Illegals, they mean Mexicans or atleast Central Americans.

Why can’t you just say, “One hispanic group doesn’t represent all hispanic groups.” The burden of proof is still on you if you want to prove your point, but you’re not going to convince anyone with one high school in California. Also, I don’t know what your bar is for anti-Semitic. My boyfriend’s cousin levels accusations of anti-Semitism when someone cuts in front of him at the deli.

Still, the hand waiving is weak. Really weak.

Comment #127: Cola82  on  08/30  at  08:19 PM

Haha, waving! Waving is the word I was looking for there.

Comment #128: Cola82  on  08/30  at  08:20 PM

Why can’t they give mod powers to someone who would use them reliably? There are loads of posters who are sane, don’t lose their cool and are also around a lot.

Comment #129: pharmakos  on  08/30  at  08:21 PM

Like I would ever let anyone have control of my kitchen!

Mental note - things to suggest to Jeff’s partners the next time they have him tied down in any bedroom games…

Comment #130: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/30  at  08:22 PM

Why can’t they give mod powers to someone who would use them reliably? There are loads of posters who are sane, don’t lose their cool and are also around a lot.

Around here?  Name three.

Comment #131: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/30  at  08:23 PM

Anecdotal evidence

Is totally legitimate.  This isn’t a peer reviewed article in a social science journal, it’s an internet debate.

hand waiving assertions that claims made are self evident when they are not

Uh huh.  Look, everybody knows why whites who don’t like Obama, don’t like Obama.  Even MikeEss backed me up on this.

switching the goalpost

Never happened.

arguing with straw men

Never happened.

If Stick Rool isn’t going to be banned for continued thread jacking, maybe he should be banned for setting up a new account to get around a previous ban. =/

Correction, five previous bans.

When you do internet security for a living, IP bans don’t have much effect.  I got a list of proxy IPs as long as your arm, and it rotates daily.

On the other hand, if all of you just admit that:

1.  Most white people are racist
2.  Young whites are even more racist than middle aged and elderly whites
3.  The democrats are going to be massacred in the mid terms

I will consider it a victory and be satisfied and you will never have to hear from me again.

Comment #132: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  08:24 PM

Around here?  Name three.

In this thread? Gracchus, MAJeff, Lee, Alara J Rogers

I’m sure some of the pandagonians have met Jesse, Amanda, Pam and Auguste so they would even know   some reliable people who could do the banning when they aren’t around

Comment #133: pharmakos  on  08/30  at  08:30 PM

Yes, be proud of yourself for continuously bothering to make new registrations and do whatever else just so you can keep coming here to tell us how stupid we all are. Your life must be so fucking exciting.

Seriously, get a new hobby. You’re pathetic.

Comment #134: Alison  on  08/30  at  08:30 PM

Seriously, get a new hobby. You’re pathetic.

Am I bothering you?  Conceed defeat and I will bother you no more.  What’s the problem?

Comment #135: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  08:33 PM

Conceed defeat and I will bother you no more.

Right-wing attitude in a nutshell; the need to dominate and control Stick Rool would rape if he were convinced he could get away with it.

Comment #136: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  08:36 PM

You got one thread mostly to yourself because the admins aren’t around and haven’t convinced anyone of anything. People laugh at you. You should consider defeat yourself.

Comment #137: pharmakos  on  08/30  at  08:37 PM

Most people are racist.  That doesn’t mean that they act on that impulse or that they think that the country should be governed in a apartheid manner.

That’s another thing that pisses you off about us race traitors.

Comment #138: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/30  at  08:38 PM

So, you’re pretty much saying you want to set up house here. As the food threads make evident, “all of (us)” will never agree on anything. You’ve probably seen Pandagonians argue about whether they’re disdainful, appalled, perplexed, annoyed or mildly amused wrt: you. If the vast majority of your people are on your side, why bother with the liberal fringe? Sure, you think they vote against their own interest, but you also think they’ll be eventually scared into racialism by the implications of the brown/black radical agenda that’s subsumed the Dems or crushed by a growing tide of discontent and racial resentment among other “right-thinking” white people.

Additionally, where are the white youth, if they’re more virulently racist than their forbears? They aren’t at Tea Parties, and they aren’t in/at other white racialist organizations and gatherings.

Comment #139: Selena777  on  08/30  at  08:41 PM

Most people are racist.

That’s point one.

Now admit that young whites are just as racist as their elders and that the Dems are gonna get destroyed in the midterms.

You know what, I’m feeling generous.  Forget about the midterms.  Just admit that young whites are no less racist than older whites.

Comment #140: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  08:42 PM

What defeat? You know what’s sort of funny is that most progressives would agree with you that “most white people are racist”, but not in the way you think. Most of us understand that white people have inherent prejudices that we need to work to confront and overcome, and that we live with a lot of fucking privilege that we need to recognize and try not to take for granted.

That does not mean we all are foaming-at-the-mouth racist trash like people who think the President is a secret Muslim (and that being Muslim is always and forever a bad thing) or who think immigrants have no ambition other than to destroy the country and everyone in it.

As for your insistence that young white people are more racist, well…if that’s what you have actually encountered in your life, fine. What we’re trying to say is that in our experiences - lots and lots of experiences - that is NOT the case. That doesn’t mean there are no virulently racist young people. There are. But percentage wise, I would assume the vast majority of the commenters here have witnessed overt (rather than ignorance and privilege based) racism as a far bigger problem among older generations.

The elections? Yeah, Dems might lose. So do you win now? And will you shut the everloving fuck up?

Comment #141: Alison  on  08/30  at  08:43 PM

Now he’s pulling the rapists, “say my name, bitch.”

Comment #142: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  08:44 PM

but you also think they’ll be eventually scared into racialism by the implications of the brown/black radical agenda that’s subsumed

People like you will never come around.  What’s more is, I don’t want you to come around.  I just want you to acknowledge your eventual defeat.

But that isn’t what I’m asking for.  If you want me to go just admit that most white people, including most white youth, are racist.  That’s it.  Should be pretty easy, right?

Just admit that I’m right and I’m gone.

Comment #143: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  08:45 PM

And will you shut the everloving fuck up?

Nope.  Too many caveats.  Just say, “most white people do not like blacks and hispanics and most young whites do not like blacks and hispanics either”.  Say that and nothing else.  Then have the other main posters here say that they agree with that statement.  Then I’ll go.  I promise.

Comment #144: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  08:48 PM

Then I’ll go.  I promise.

liar

Comment #145: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  08:50 PM

What defeat do you imagine?

Can I imagine Republicans winning national elections again?  Sure.
Can I imagine Jim Crow or slavery returning?  No.

Helter Skelter’s not coming.

Comment #146: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/30  at  08:51 PM

What’s more is, I don’t want you to come around

Of course you don’t… I’m black.

Comment #147: Selena777  on  08/30  at  08:54 PM

What defeat do you imagine?

The end of the Democrats as a major party.  The removal of 20 million plus illegals.  The possible return of Southwest to Mexico.

Look, I gave you the exact words I want you to say.  Just say them and I’ll leave.

Comment #148: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  08:56 PM

I’m not going to say something I don’t believe is true. As I tried to explain, there is a difference between recognizing inherent prejudices and “not liking black and Hispanic people”. You seem unwilling to allow for that difference.

So. Then. Fuck you. Basically.

Comment #149: Alison  on  08/30  at  09:03 PM

Nope.  Too many caveats.  Just say, “most white people do not like blacks and hispanics and most young whites do not like blacks and hispanics either”.  Say that and nothing else.  Then have the other main posters here say that they agree with that statement.  Then I’ll go.  I promise.

Hmm.  I’ll say it if you lick my anus.  Just that and nothing else.  Then I’ll say it.  I promise.

Comment #150: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/30  at  09:04 PM

Okay, laundry in, shipping under way, emails… Most of the daytime work done. Could check on Pandagon for some Mad Men action, Amanda’s probably—

Oh come on, people! You’re still here with it??

Don’t feed them after midnight!

Comment #151: Yamara  on  08/30  at  09:04 PM

Stick Rool: Nobody said all white people are racists, but I’m pretty sure you are.

Comment #152: Bitter Scribe  on  08/30  at  09:05 PM

Look, I gave you the exact words I want you to say.  Just say them and I’ll leave.

Look, man, I gave you the exact act you need to do to get your way.  Hust lick my anus and you can get your way.  You know you want to.

Comment #153: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/30  at  09:06 PM

The possible return of Southwest to Mexico.

Who knew you were so keen to outsource American jobs in computing and national security?

Comment #154: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/30  at  09:06 PM

Arabs can be anti-semitic.  Just like women can be sexist and someone of some race cand be racist against their race.  Of course, claiming that Palestinians aren’t Semites would also be anti-semitism, then.

But being angry about specific actions, even if they were done by someone or some organization that is semitic, doesn’t make you anti-semitic.  If this was so, then being for female rabbis or prosecuting a murder who was also Jewish would also be anti-semitism.  Which they are not.  Because that would be ridiculous.

Comment #155: Crissa  on  08/30  at  09:07 PM

“Helter Skelter’s not coming.”

But, but, but, the thought of it makes him so very <strike>aroused</strike> patriotic and everything!

Tell you what, Thick Drool, I’m sure Charles Manson would love to talk about it — it was one of his favorite topics — and I’m sure he’d appreciate the company (being a naturally friendly and gregarious sort), and he ain’t going anywhere any time soon.  He could be the Stacy Keach to your Edward Furlong, maybe teach you how to carve a swastika in your forehead or something…

Comment #156: MikeEss  on  08/30  at  09:13 PM

Hey Stick Rool! I’ve been a long time lurker trying to decide whether or not to register. But you’ve inspired me to take the plunge . . . just so I can say . . . shut your filthy fucking face!
Yay! Another person irritated - you’ve made a difference!

Comment #157: Tropes on the Run  on  08/30  at  09:13 PM

Stick Rool: Nobody said all white people are racists, but I’m pretty sure you are.

He owns it. As I said above, it’s kind of ridiculous to say “I think you;re racist” when the dude says, “I’m racist and proud of it.”  Folks are approaching this from a perspective of racism=bad.  The cracker isn’t. He views his racism as a good thing.

Comment #158: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  09:14 PM

McKay….FOAD.

Comment #159: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  09:17 PM

“McKay….FOAD.”

Bravo!...

Comment #160: MikeEss  on  08/30  at  09:21 PM

Of course, claiming that Palestinians aren’t Semites would also be anti-semitism, then.

Are you seriously still talking about this?

Comment #161: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  09:23 PM

“The modern definition of ‘racist’ is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal.”

You forgot the end:

“...about how horrible black people are.”

Comment #162: Bitter Scribe  on  08/30  at  09:26 PM

OMG! McKay is citing a white supremacist site. That’s fucking funny. What’s next, Stormfront?

Comment #163: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  09:26 PM

Hey geoffery I’ve got a biscuit for ya.

I’m sure you do, John.  Do you have hot, fevered dreams of MAJeff and the abuse he dishes out to you?  Is that why you and Stick Rule keep coming back, because the abuse and hostility get you… excited?...

Tell us more about this “biscuit” you wish to give Jeff, John.  How would you describe it?

Comment #164: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/30  at  09:27 PM

You seem unwilling to allow for that difference.

Oh I allow for it, it just so happens that most white people actually do dislike blacks and hispanics, as opposed to just harboring inherent prejudice.

Comment #165: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  09:27 PM

“The modern definition of ‘racist’ is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal.” -Peter Brimelow Hey geoffery I’ve got a biscuit for ya.

Didn’t I tell you to leave?  Only the best can troll Pandagon and you just aren’t up for it.  Leave it to the professionals.

Comment #166: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  09:29 PM

No, asshole. Most virulent racists do. Stop fucking telling us what we really really think. You do not know me. I do not dislike black people, hispanics, or any specific racial, ethnic, religious, etc group, because I realize they are not monoliths. I dislike assholes and they come from all of those groups. My dislike for people is based on what they do and how they act. Which is why I think you are complete scum.

Comment #167: Alison  on  08/30  at  09:31 PM

I do not dislike black people, hispanics

You are not a typical white person!  Most white people think nothing like you.  Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Comment #168: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  09:33 PM

Didn’t I tell you to leave?  Only the best can troll Pandagon and you just aren’t up for it.  Leave it to the professionals.

you aren’t any good at trolling, you just post a lot.

Comment #169: pharmakos  on  08/30  at  09:35 PM

Whatever fellas.  You guys can have the last word.  I’m probably only a few minutes away from my daily banning so have at it.

But first I’d like to declare victory:  I declare myself the winner of this debate.

Comment #170: Stick Rool  on  08/30  at  09:35 PM

This is like this guy’s 10th account here, he’s never going to leave.  You can ban him, he’ll come back, forever, because he’d rather spend hours a day trying to ruin someone else’s property than do anything else.  He has been here, trolling one thread, for six hours now.  And he does this every time he makes a new account, and has been doing it for months.

Serial trolls like this will never stop of their own volition until they find a target they like better.  They’re like the teenagers who drop bags of dog shit on your porch and then go circle jerk to how amazingly clever they are.

And honestly, I’d really like if you guys stopped paying attention to him, because these threads are a lot more entertaining and informative when it’s not 140 posts of arguing with a serial troll.

Comment #171: Toitle  on  08/30  at  09:39 PM

So, the biggest “race pimp” in America over the past 30 years was…..Ronald Reagan.

“welfare queens”
“state’s rights” in Philadelphia, MS

Comment #172: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/30  at  09:39 PM

@Amanda Marcotte: Stick Rool has dominated this entire conversation by being stupid.  Requesting moderator assistance, when you get back from your stuff.

Comment #173: Punditus Maximus  on  08/30  at  09:58 PM

I skipped down after ~#100 to ask, why is everyone feeding the two trolls, Macdumbshit and DumbasaStick?

They are just wasting your precious time.  Ignore them.

Comment #174: Eric_RoM  on  08/30  at  10:00 PM

First comment:

Comment #22: Stick Rool on 08/30 at 01:08 PM


Last (?) comment:

Comment #178: Stick Rool on 08/30 at 08:35 PM

Over seven hours. Seven hours. Combined with his multiple accounts and proxies, not to mention all the effort he takes to register several different accounts, we have a real basement dweller (the real, not strawman kind) on our hands here. This is either a really bored unemployed college drop-out or a sociopath. Well, wait, this IS a both/and blog.

I want to laugh at him, but it’s so <I>sad<i>.

Comment #175: Ben D.  on  08/30  at  10:01 PM

Stick DRool is a footsoldier in the Reichwing terror machine.  He’s an insurgent plinking at the regular army.  He’s pinned down dozens here with his blathering.  Rove probably personally tucks him into bed and kisses him good night, cuz you idiot posters won’t IGNORE HIM.

Surely Jesse has a banhammer.

Comment #176: Eric_RoM  on  08/30  at  10:04 PM

Also, didn’t you post under “Otis the Sweaty” on multiple blogs? You sound exactly like him.

More proof for my theory that there are only about, at the most, a half-dozen trolls on the entire internet posting under 1000s of handles on 100s of blogs.

Comment #177: Ben D.  on  08/30  at  10:04 PM

But first I’d like to declare victory:  I declare myself the winner of this debate.

That’s nice.  Have fun jerking off while imagining all of us abusing you.

Comment #178: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/30  at  10:47 PM

Eric, Jesse and Amanda (and maybe Pam too, I don’t usually read her threads, so I don’t know if this guy trolls the too) have banned this guy nearly a dozen times before.  He just registers a new account, and goes back to trolling here.  It’s his hobby; while you like to contribute to things, he likes to smash things and declare himself king of the sandbox.

Comment #179: Toitle  on  08/30  at  11:08 PM

I declare myself the rightful owner and controller of all ice cream.

Comment #180: Mandos  on  08/30  at  11:10 PM

I like how stick rool declares himself the WINNA!  After he wrote that, he probably cried into his swastika embrodered pillow, masterbated furiously at the thought of Pandagonians abusing him, and then cried a little more.

Comment #181: kitten parade  on  08/30  at  11:18 PM

Not to feed the troll, but I want to put in a plug for the greatest data set ever, the General Social Survey.  Here are some quick tables you can use to test the claim:

2.  Young whites are even more racist than middle aged and elderly whites.

The answer is that the claim is pretty clearly false.  While the GSS doesn’t ask “Are you a racist?” the responses to the following questions are indicative of racist attitudes among whites in the 2000s.

1:  Favor Law Against Racial Intermarriage?
Only 5.5% of white 18-30 year olds say yes, compared to 10.5% of 31-40 year olds, 6.8% of 41-55 year olds, and 10.9% of 55-80 year olds.

2: Do you agree strongly that blacks shouldn’t be so pushy?
10.8% of white 18-30 year olds agree strongly, compared to 11.6% of 31-40 year olds, 13.5% of 41-55 year olds, and 23.1% of 56-89 year olds.

In each case, the youngest cohort had the fewest racist responses and the oldest cohort had the most.  It’s worth noting that middle age folks fared better than 31-40 year olds, but still not as well as the youngest cohort.

There are a lot of other variables you can play around with, which is worth doing if you’re interested in that sort of thing, as you should be.

(Stick Rool’s study, incidentally, did not compare age groups and so doesn’t give us any information about his claim)

Comment #182: Thom  on  08/30  at  11:20 PM

Sorry, 19.4% of 56-89 year old whites in the 2000s favor laws against interracial marriage, not 10.9%.

Comment #183: Thom  on  08/30  at  11:23 PM

Thorn, thank you for using actual data.

But hey, we all know what Stick Rool “heard” about some high school in Southern California totally trumps any data!

BTW, I think that Israel was tone-deaf and trigger-happy in the flotilla incident, yet favor a Jewish state in Palestine. Thinking that the reaction to the flotilla was wrong/stupid != anti-semite or even anti-Israel.

Comment #184: Ben D.  on  08/30  at  11:43 PM

Nope.  Too many caveats.  Just say, “most white people do not like blacks and hispanics and most young whites do not like blacks and hispanics either”.  Say that and nothing else.  Then have the other main posters here say that they agree with that statement.  Then I’ll go.  I promise.

I hate to say this but I suspect this troll is more so apolitical and 4chan dweller.  Looking to try and make educated adults admit to what is assuredly bull is a classic goal of somebody with minor psychological mind game playing which is more common with less ideologically driven and more somebody trying to just troll people. 

I believe a few weeks ago somebody pulled the study up that basically verified that the Gen X whites are more conservative (and arguably more racist) but the generations coming up on either side of them are clearly less conservative and less racist.  Thom did the leg work for me.  Some 7 hours later though?  Still arguing this tired old beat down point.

Comment #185: Xeranar  on  08/30  at  11:43 PM

Conceed defeat and I will bother you no more.

(no doubt I’m too late for this fight, but here goes…)

Learn how to spell and I’ll begin to at least think about it.  Until then, no dice.

BTW, you must be the only IP guy I’ve run into who doesn’t understand how a spell-checker works.  Something about that doesn’t smell right.  Until some halfway convincing explanation gets wafted my way, I’m gong to continue to rank your stuff as being among the works of Poe (if not as being among his best works). 

Nothing personal.  If you’re greedy for praise I’ll concede (sp!!!) that you’ve got the unreliable-narrator thing down pat.

Comment #186: bekabot  on  08/30  at  11:47 PM

Stick Rule declared himself the winner, eh?

Did it look anything like this?

Comment #187: Yamara  on  08/30  at  11:47 PM

The NYT had a fascinating article on troll’s in their magazine section some years ago. I recommend googling it when you have the time. The level of arrogance expressed by trolls interviewed for the article was breath taking but people who think that its funny to hound a couple whose son has committed suicide, one example of a 4chan antic described by the article, have to possess breath-taking arrogance.

Comment #188: Lee  on  08/31  at  12:03 AM

@188:

Aw, man!  Why didn’t I think of that?  Since it’s just that easy, right?

Comment #189: Captain Bathrobe  on  08/31  at  02:08 AM

There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights.

We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro’s basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as our children are stripped of their selfhood and robbed of their dignity by signs stating “For Whites Only”. We cannot be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote.

beckfollowermode on

WTF is Jesse complaining about? He can vote; he can live anywhere he can afford to, and I haven’t seen a “For Whites Only” sign in years.

/beckfollower mode

Comment #190: Hector B.  on  08/31  at  02:33 AM

In the next 40 years the US is predicted to become a minority majority country. Pity more delusional stick rool, for his side is the one losing, no matter how much he huffs and puffs.

I’m white, I have white friends, and while we’ve all had instances where we were blind to our white privilege and had to educate ourselves, none of us hate people of color. And we’re young (older end of the Millennial generation.) The really openly racist handful of dumb stoned metal-heads at my mostly white high school were shunned and laughed at.

Stick either lives in a real jacked up backwoods hellhole (and my hometown was fairly rural in its own right) or has repulsed any non-racist people with his behavior, so his social group has obviously skewed toward racists. He already described his family as racist. He mistakes his self-selected circle as representative of the general population, and it’s so sad he just seems pathetic. I can’t even find him threatening, because even though he may be biologically young, he’s a dinosaur and his kind are going extinct.

Comment #191: jessilikewhoa  on  08/31  at  03:10 AM

Stick is a good refutation of the argument I keep hearing Tea Baggers make, which is that they’re just independents (who miraculously always vote Republican), and that racism doesn’t exist anymore.

Of course, the fact that they have to keep insisting so strenuously that they aren’t racists also demonstrates how overt racism is frowned upon by society as a whole, and is on it’s way out. See ya, Sticky.

Comment #192: banisteriopsis  on  08/31  at  04:18 AM

@196

Lee, I read the article when it came out and I keep reading it every so often to remind me why I find the internet disturbing and quite frankly wonder if the world ever truly knew anarchists before the 21st century.  The nihilistic attitude exhibited by most the trolls interviewed was beyond disturbing, I grew up in a fairly rough and tumble area and if these kids exhibited half the inclinations they do online they would either be running a gang or stabbed to death.  Simple as that, the internet levels the playing field in terms of words but the emotional investment we have to shed or hide is excessive when facing these people. 

Then again, I have noticed that the 4chan cretins tend to shy away from here and the few other blogs I happen to read.  I’m not sure if it is because so many posters have deep convictions or because they don’t want to fight on a playing field that doesn’t produce emotional devastation with simple harassment.  Politics just doesn’t lend itself like a sad suicide and a quick phone call apparently.

Comment #193: Xeranar  on  08/31  at  04:28 AM

4chan posters don’t tend to troll blogs or other websites except as a large, one off group “raid.”  They don’t want to be anywhere where they don’t have sufficient backup, and at least when I payed attention to them their main tactic was spamming shock pics and DDOS attacks.  Trolling like you see here is done by individual actors, who may or may not visit 4chan.  4channers only attack very vulnerable people, like 11 year old girls or depressed teenagers, because there’s a greater chance of there being serious real life consequences for those people (and driving someone to suicide is the height of comedy for people who visit /b/, and that’s not even an exaggeration).

So yeah, what you said in your last 2 sentences.

Comment #194: Toitle  on  08/31  at  06:28 AM

Xeranar at 201: When I first read the article, my immediate thought that these people were disgusting. If they were more physical types than they would be committing acts of physical violence against others. Most of them are weak in physical sense and can’t do this though. They seem to channel their violence through the internet.

What I wonder is if anything legal is going to be done about this or if anything legal can be done about trolling. Eventually non-trolls are going to demand legislatures to take them on. We already are seeing a little of this in the various new anti-e-bullying laws that are appearing. Trolls are already breaking a lot of civil and criminal laws but its hard to sue and prosecute them.

Comment #195: Lee  on  08/31  at  08:10 AM

By the way, are you still predicting that Obama will get amnesty passed in the next session?

You have me confused with someone else. After HCR, I’m not predicting that he’ll get any non-controversial initiative passed.

The country was over 90% white then.  Why don’t you take a look at history to see what happens to multi cultural countries when people can’t find work.

I am an historian by training, but my archival research sources don’t include your bumhole, from whence you apparently pull your stats. “Over 90%”! Sheesh…

Lol!  Cause you know young white kids see Mathew Yglesias as someone who they want to emulate.

If it was a choice between Yglesias or one of those dudes, I’m confident which one they’d choose (hint: it’s the young educated guy who lives in the city and gets to make his money by writing). You are confident of that fact, too, which is why you don’t like liberals.

Obama’s approval rating among white high schoolers is 21%.  Now why do you think that they don’t like him?

Until you post a study that breaks down those reasons, I can’t answer that. Neither can you.

Most <strike>white</strike> people who voted <strike>for Obama</strike> are racist.

FTFY. The only people who are completely non-racist are made of straw.

And, cracker number 2 appears.

The funny thing about Stick is that he thinks he’s more intelligent than Chris2.

So what is it about me that makes you all start either calling for everybody to ignore me or demanding that Jesse/Amanda ban me?

Could it be because you’ve already been banned at least twice by them under different handles? They only have a couple of rules here, and you consistently break them. You want an example of a troll who doesn’t get himself banned, check out Dana—he’s been around under the same handle for a long time, and his views are just as rancid, moronic and poorly supported as yours.

Why can’t they give mod powers to someone who would use them reliably? There are loads of posters who are sane, don’t lose their cool and are also around a lot.

In my experience, that’s a bad idea—Netslaves tried that and it was a disaster (although Stick Rool is no Lauren Bandler). Moderation authority should rest with the site owners: their site, their rules, their responsibility. The Pandagonians have been very diligent.

I know stick is an annoying psychopath, but be patient—they’ll ban him again.

Comment #196: Gracchus.  on  08/31  at  09:31 AM

In each case, the youngest cohort had the fewest racist responses and the oldest cohort had the most.  It’s worth noting that middle age folks fared better than 31-40 year olds, but still not as well as the youngest cohort.

I think this has been brought up before, and from my experience, rings true, and I wonder why that is.  I mean, I have no trouble recognizing that since I’m white, I’ve grown up with a lot of privilege just by being white, and a lot of the opportunities I’ve had have been because I’ve been able to get good education, food everyday, parental attention.  Even when my family was poor, we still were white, and that gave us the privilege to do better.  I don’t understand what’s so hard about this concept to recognize and admit that this is wrong, that everyone should have a fair chance at a decent living and that everyone deserves basic human respect.  I’m not so foolish as to think that I’d ever be the millionaire/billionaire that I’d like to be, and further more, most people won’t get there, either.  There’s simply no reason to have swimming pools of money, despite the fun Scrooge McDuck had swimming through his.  I shouldn’t have to buy on credit so that a CEO can buy a jet with cash.  Nor should a poor black person go without fun and relaxing things because I make a comfortable income.  In my experience, when the “I’ve got mine so fuck you” crowd runs into trouble, they sit around and bitch and whine about how unfair it all is, that people should also give them stuff, and just act entirely entitled to things - the very same argument, in fact, that they use to prop up their “welfare queen” belief.

Of course, I don’t understand racists either.  It just doesn’t make sense to me to devote that much energy to pretend I’m better than everyone else because I’m special or something.  I’d rather do other, more fun things.

Comment #197: SporkeyO  on  08/31  at  10:02 AM

Ohhhh, so THAT’s what the bizarre comment left on my blog the other day was about!

I thought it had been left by some jerk I’d gotten into it with on a Yahoo group, who had casually mentioned having read my blog as though that made him some kind of master haxx0r, but now I see it was Chris2/Stick2.  The weird phrasing is hard to mistake:

Anonymous Anonymous said…

  As a white person, I try to call out other whites if they even show the slightest hint of racism…it makes me feel better about myself. Plus, I bought a Koran, because white people are the cause of all the muslims problems….I feel so guilty :(

  August 30, 2010 3:40 PM
Blogger Dr. Psycho said…

  1) What does this comment have to do with what I posted? Or is it just a random excretion you happened to drop here?

  2) Most Muslims, including all Arab Muslims, are white persons also. In any event, what is your point?

  3) Keep reading your Quran, and you may find that a lot of your confusion clears up. Try to read with an open mind.

  August 30, 2010 6:40 PM

I generally find that the best response to misdirected sarcasm is to take it at face value.  99 times out of a hundred, it drives the buggers crazy, and once in awhile it starts an actual conversation.

Comment #198: Dr. Psycho  on  08/31  at  10:49 AM

Aaaaaaaaaaand Stick’s been banned.

Comment #199: Jesse Taylor  on  08/31  at  10:56 AM

“I mean, I have no trouble recognizing that since I’m white, I’ve grown up with a lot of privilege just by being white, and a lot of the opportunities I’ve had have been because I’ve been able to get good education, food everyday, parental attention.  Even when my family was poor, we still were white, and that gave us the privilege to do better.  I don’t understand what’s so hard about this concept to recognize and admit that this is wrong, that everyone should have a fair chance at a decent living and that everyone deserves basic human respect.”

The most direct reason the recognition of White Privilege offends some is that they already believe we live in a meritocracy, that all Americans Have an Equal Shot, and whether they make it or not depends on how they use the Gifts God Gave Them.

The existence of White Privilege (and other kinds of privilege) puts the lie to all that.  Everyone may have a more or less equal chance in the genetic lottery, in general, but if you end up looking the “wrong” way, or are born to the “wrong” parents, or live in the “wrong” part of town, things aren’t equal anymore.  And that means that success has a randomness factor that can’t be influenced by your mental/physical strengths.  And “merit” is far from the only factor that comes into play.

All that crap about how “you can start in the mailroom and become the company president, if you work hard and keep your nose clean!” is exposed as mostly bullshit.  Paris Hilton will never have to work a day in her life.  George Bush Jr. will get admitted to two prestigious universities regardless of how bad his grade are.  Donald Trump was born on third base, and will be carried to home plate in a sedan chair.

Some Americans can’t accept the truth of this because it attacks everything they want to believe about themselves and about America…

Comment #200: MikeEss  on  08/31  at  11:47 AM

One of the ways I’ve been illustrating white privilege lately comes from a study published by Devah Pager and some of her colleagues at Princeton.

http://asanet.org/images/journals/docs/pdf/asr/Oct09ASRFeature.pdf

Her primary research/publication area focuses on labor market discrimination, and this study was based on sending out sets of matched job applicants.  You know when white applicants and black applicants got equal rates of call-backs for interviews or offers? When white applicants had a drug conviction but black applicants didn’t. Other than that, the white applicants got more callbacks, more offers, and were not as likely to be channeled into lower jobs.  That’s the privilege of whiteness.

Comment #201: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/31  at  12:19 PM

I agree it looks rather foolish for Glen Beck Conservatives to hold huge rallies and push the main theme that “they’re not RACIST” and that they are the true heirs to Martin Luther King Jr.

The Glen Beck crowd and Tea Party types are overwhelmingly White. And on other sides, Black voters vote straight Black racial tribal lines - I believe the stats were 24 out of 25 Black African American voters voted for Obama including supposedly “Conservative”, “GOP”, “Military patriots”  like Gen. Colin Powel.

Are Glen Beck supporters RACIST? Is the Black Congressional Caucus “Racist” - it’s only for Blacks, some Jewish Congressman from Memphis Tennessee named Cohen tried to join the Black Congressional Caucus because most of his constituents were Black, they didn’t let him in, because he wasn’t “Black”.

How about the BET - Black Entertainment Television - Black fraternities (where the beat and brand people). How about open Black criminal organizations like the Bloods, Cripps or my neighbors The Black Gangster Disciples? Anybody thing the Black Gangster Disciples are “Racist” or that they might be “Gangsters” duhhhh.

Moving on to our growing Hispanic population - how do folks here feel about the Latino Civil Rights group the “National Council of LaRaza” - translates as “THE RACE”. Anybody think a Latino racial advocacy group called “THE RACE” might be a tad “RACIST”?

People here and most everywhere in America should just learn to accept racial realities in our country and in the world. Birds of a feather flock together - it’s this way in Israel/Palestine between Arabs and Jews, it’s this way in New York City between Jews and Blacks, Blacks and White.

Decent people should find ways to get along and work not to hate and kill each other because they are different.

But White Americans should stop pandering - stop defending themselves against the terrible sin that they alone are…

RACISTS

Comment #202: jack ryan  on  08/31  at  02:33 PM

BenD @ 185:

More proof for my theory that there are only about, at the most, a half-dozen trolls on the entire internet posting under 1000s of handles on 100s of blogs.

lol, I guess that explains how Billy/Stick Rule knows “hundreds” of racist young white people: it’s his two elder siblings and six fellow trolls with multiple aliases. Hey presto, all the ingredients he needs for a bit of entitled projection: the assumption that because he’s a racist white high schooler* who was brought up in a racist family, all other young white people except a liberal fringe must be, too. And then he found this! one! survey! that he’s decided confirms his beliefs and makes him feel less alone. Aw.

* I’d be astonished if he’s any older. He writes just like dear little Austin Nedved, except without the earnestness: exactly the same conviction that his tortured chain of high-school-debate-team logic reveals the world as it really is (or as it should be if only people would listen!), because he knows better than all those silly adults with their immoral shades of grey and cowardly capitulation to the fact that the real world is a lot more both/and than either/or. So Austin was convinced that any sex that doesn’t lead to conception is simply unnecessary, and that banning contraception as soon as may be couldn’t possibly lead to an increase in miscarriages and unwanted, neglected baybeez. And Billy is sure, just *sure* that all non-white people need to piss off back to where they came from, even if their families have been in the US longer than his, and that once everyone stops being all politically correct it’ll be a doddle to put Only Whites Allowed in the Constitution. And then jobs and puppies for everyone!!1!

It’s daft, granted, but by the time he gets to voting age, he’ll probably have grown out of the know-it-all phase.

I agree with other commenters, though, that banning him only encourages him; as with any teenager, the more you tell him not to do something, the more he becomes convinced it’s fun.

Comment #203: Nic_C  on  08/31  at  02:45 PM

jack ryan @ 211: Yawn. Why not come back when you’ve developed your own ideas, instead of recycling the same old tea cracker talking points.

Comment #204: Nic_C  on  08/31  at  02:49 PM

Jack, no one has ever said that only white people are racist. Individuals of all stripes are prejudiced against individuals of all other stripes. White people are just currently the ones who reap most of the benefits from racism. I could address your points about individual racism, vs institutional racism—white racism works to keep individuals out of the channels of power while racism against whites just sucks in individual circumstances. The way that black people and viewpoints are kept out of “mainstream” things so “blacks only” groups redress that problem where as “whites only” groups are meant to keep the dominant culture dominant, most crime committed by black gangs are perpetrated against black people.etc. However, you are clearly an ass hole with a persecution complex and it would do no good. Most crime committed by black gangs are perpetrated against black people.

Besides there already are white entertainment channels like GAC and Fox News.

Comment #205: alysia  on  08/31  at  02:52 PM

Nic, I thought Billy was a high schooler too. A few threads back he started hitting on me and revealed that he was all growned up and four years out of college. He is apparently just a 26 year old who is overly concerned about the opinion of today’s teens.

Comment #206: alysia  on  08/31  at  02:55 PM

I’m just glad to know that as long as there is someone Black who did something wrong, somewhere, at some time, the whole (multi-century) history of white racism in America is all washed away.

Thanks for that comforting thought, jerk ryland…

And BTW, since 100% of American Presidents over the past almost two years have been African American, it’s obviously long overdue that we implement a program of affirmative action for white politicians so they can have a chance to become POTUS too, don’t you think?...

Comment #207: MikeEss  on  08/31  at  03:10 PM

Racially resentful crackers are so boring.

Comment #208: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/31  at  03:27 PM

No one said white people are the only racists.

We just say that making decisions solely on the base of race, or ignoring the privileges granted you solely b/c of race is wrong. 

It’s anti-American.  It’s denying the equality that our country was founded on.

——
I always love the “black people voted for Obama b/c they’re racist” argument.

90% of black people also refused to vote for Bush.  He ran against white guys both times.  Could it be that blacks are overwhelmingly Democrats?  And if so, WHY?

Did McCain do anything to change that reason?  Or did his and Palin’s rallies look like white power rallies?

Comment #209: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/31  at  03:54 PM

“Or did his and Palin’s rallies look like white power rallies?”

That’s so not fair!  Anything bad that happened at a McCain or Palin rally, just like at a Teabagger rally, is obviously the work of Liberal Moles and Outside Agitators.  Of course.  Without question.  Beyond a shadow of doubt. 

Just asking that question is stifling their First Amendment Rights, for which they will apply a Second Amendment remedy.  As long as they think they can get away with it…

Comment #210: MikeEss  on  08/31  at  05:00 PM

alysia writes

>Jack, no one has ever said that only white people are racist. Individuals of all stripes are prejudiced >against individuals of all other stripes. White people are just currently the ones who reap most of the >benefits from racism.

That’s just not true. The meme that “Only Whites can be RACISTS” permeates American society. Please note that Attorney General Eric Holder testified that a White military serviceman murdered by a Black American Muslim convert wouldn’t be covered under the proposed Federal Hate Crime Legislation as only historic “victim groups” needed protection:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u6eGRvGinc&p=162C4B08B5C26B1A&playnext=1&index=4

Just this month gangs of between 30 and 40 blacks were roaming just outside the Iowa State Fairgrounds attacking whites and shouting that it was “beat whitey night”. Yet, we get the spin by police, media, local pols that “they can’t confirm race was a factor”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20100826/NEWS01/8260357/Des-Moines-police-say-they-can-t-confirm-race-was-factor-in-fights-near-fairgrounds

As for your comment that “most crime committed by black gangs are perpetrated against black people.etc” - I am sorry but that is a really lame excuse for terrible Black gangsters.

If you are a regular Black citizens and you are murdered by Black gang members/gangsters, you’re just as dead as if you get murdered by evil White RACISTS from Alabama - which in my city of Chicago, simple doesn’t happen at all here - not 1 case a year. Yet this weekend I had to suffer through yet another PC media frenzy about the death of Emmitt Till by evil Whites in Alabama 55 years ago! This at time when Chicago is leading the nation again in total murders and over 30 people were shot in the month of July alone.

It’s also not true that Black gang members, criminals just target other Blacks and never harm, terrorize Whites.

The Justice Department provided racial statistics in the United States in 2005, 37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man.

The Mainstream Media and various corrupt political powers cover up these terrible crimes and we have to suffer many racial hoax crimes like the Duke Lacrosse rape hoax or the Tawanna Brawley rape hoax that started the career of Al Sharpton (he’s not a “Reverend”)

I am now suggesting that people here (progressives) and everywhere else in America stop pushing politically correct lies about racial realities and crime. We need a better society, with way less rapes, murders, assaults - making real yes PROGRESS in areas like education, jobs, health, race relations.

Does anyone here think that regular Black Americans in Detroit MI are now living better lives now than in 1963 - are really making a lot of “progress” or is American life getting a lot worse?

Comment #211: jack ryan  on  08/31  at  05:00 PM

Well, for the most part, a white guy murdered by a black guy won’t have nearly as much trouble getting the police to arrest and the courts to lock away his murderer.  He just has to lay there.

It’s not so easy to get a murder convicted when their target is a minority group… Even without approved racism.  Add in that hate crimes laws are designed to point out and punish crimes which tear at the fabric of society, rather than to target crimes which are already adequately punished…

Comment #212: Crissa  on  08/31  at  05:16 PM

It’s hard out there for whitey.

Comment #213: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/31  at  05:29 PM

between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man.

And that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with how hard it is for a black woman to convince a white judge and a probably mostly white jury that a white man raped her, when our culture is fairly convinced that women never get raped unless they are white religious virgins, and that white men never rape anyone unless they have THUG 4 LIFE tattooed on their forehead.

Really, all that statistic proves to me is that white women have sufficient racial privilege over black men that they can actually get black men convicted of raping them sometimes, but when the rape victim lacks both male privilege *and* white privilege over her attacker, it’s basically impossible for her to obtain a conviction against her rapist.

Come back when you have a stat that isn’t drawn from a pool of statistics that’s itself thoroughly corrupted by the belief that black men are inherently criminal and that white men can do no wrong.

Comment #214: Alara J Rogers  on  08/31  at  05:52 PM

The Justice Department provided racial statistics in the United States in 2005, 37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man.

When I fed this phrase into Google, it gave me ~12,000 hits. So I went looking for the original data. IT’s here:

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus0602.pdf (the relevant table is on page 30)

Interesting Things Our Troll’s Stock Racist Phrase Doesn’t Tell You:

1) The row of rape statistics (on this page and throughout) has the following footnote: “Includes verbal threats of rape and threats of sexual assault.” There doesn’t seem to be any further information in the document to show how the totals supplied break down into rape, sexual assault, and verbal threat. So I’m not sure we can draw any firm conclusions from this data about the number of rapes committed/reported in the US in 2005, as distinct from the broader category of sexual victimisation.

2) 50.6% of the white women who reported a rape/assault/threat in 2005 were the victim of a white man, or just short of 100,000 women. (Rape/assault/etc by black man accounts for 16.7%)

3) All the stats for every category *except* white victim/white perpertrator are accompanied by an asterisk, which leads to the following note: *Estimate is based on 10 or fewer sample cases. Which means that there were not between zero and ten cases of a black woman being raped by a white man in the US in 2005, but that out of 17,920 rapes/assaults/etc in which black women were the victims during 2005, a random sample of between 0 and 10 yielded no white perpetrators.

In conclusion: in a shocking turn of events, our shiny new troll is full of shit. But the facts, no doubt, have a liberal bias.

Comment #215: Nic_C  on  08/31  at  06:03 PM

Alara J Rogers writes:

“And that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with how hard it is for a black woman to convince a white judge and a probably mostly white jury that a white man raped her, when our culture is fairly convinced that women never get raped unless they are white religious virgins, and that white men never rape anyone unless ...

Comment #223: Alara J Rogers on 08/31 at 04:52 PM

Hey Alara,

Duke Rape Hoaxer Crystal Gail Mangum didn’t have any problems convincing NC district attorneys to indite completely innocent White Duke Lacrosse team members, without any physical evidence and with about 18 witnesses that contradicted her accusation. Not only did the NC district attorney throw evidence and caution to the wind to persecute alleged White rapists, virtually the entire mainstream media bought her accusations and gave this (non) story 24/7 news coverage. And Crystal was hardly a “religious virgin” - she was a stripper and also a prostitute - didn’t matter, the media and district attorneys office wanted White Rapist perps.

And Alara - crime statistics can be fudged a bit, interpreted in subtle ways to make different conclusions. But again, look at the racial statistics for rape in 2005:

“37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man.”

When you understand that law enforcement is pressured to identify a criminal as “White” and a victim as non White - it’s very possible that some or all of the 0-10 “White” rape criminals were Whiter Hispanics, or Middle Easterners.  So we’re talking…

37,460 to ZERO!

Folks, America does not have a serious or any problem with White American men sexually assaulting or raping Black women.

So when you see all the Hollywood, TV movies pushing this “White men are evil, RAPIST, Oppressors of Blacks, women, gays” propaganda. Understand that is just that:

lying propaganda.

It’s like organized crime in America.

If you live in a big city, metropolitan area you understand that America doesn’t have a big crime problem with

Swedish Mafias
Danish Mafias
Welsh and English Mafias

And North Dakota and Wyoming are not high crime states.

America has real problems with

Mexican Mafias
Jewish Russian Mafias
or yeah - The Italian Mafia.

How about Progressives here and everywhere else turn off the TV boob tube,  get away from Hollywood fantasy worlds and join real Americans in the real world?

Comment #216: jack ryan  on  08/31  at  06:13 PM

jack ryan @ 225:

<blackquote>But again, look at the racial statistics for rape in 2005</blockquote>

As I noted in 224, you’re aren’t looking at “the racial statistics for rape in 2005”. You’re looking at a racist meme that has been repeated across the internet 12,000 times, and which is itself based on a complete misreading of the DoJ’s table. Once again: THAT IS NOT WHAT THE STATISTICS SAY.

Comment #217: Nic_C  on  08/31  at  06:23 PM

And heh to my typo there…

Comment #218: Nic_C  on  08/31  at  06:24 PM

@Nic_C

I also googled and was shocked at how many links were to white supremacist sites.  Of course, googling also shows that black women are less likely to report rape than white women, and that shockingly white supremacists can’t fathom that any white men could ever be included in the “we don’t fucking know the race” category.

But, rather than bother too much with the idiot racist, there’s this.  (“jack ryan,” seriously?  Is there a name less likely to get you taken seriously as a seriously adult person with legitimate ideas and thinking skills and everything?)

Comment #219: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/31  at  06:27 PM

@ Atheist, a Feminist:

*grin*

But I must confess, I was surprised by a) how widely this myth has spread and b) how easy it was to prove wrong. A disturbing peek into the flipside of the internet - it only takes one person to (deliberately?) fail to read a footnote, and then a staggering number of people will repeat the mistaken slur without even thinking, simply because it fits their prejudices.

Comment #220: Nic_C  on  08/31  at  06:37 PM

Folks, America does not have a serious or any problem with White American men sexually assaulting or raping Black women.

Why do so many black folks have white ancestors, then?

Comment #221: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/31  at  06:39 PM

Wait…Harrison Ford Jack Ryan, or Ben Affleck Jack Ryan? It’s a critical distinction.

Comment #222: Byronic Commando  on  08/31  at  06:44 PM

@Nic_C

I think part of the problem is that rape is still so generally believed to be “stranger rape.”  If you are a racist asshat, people of color are the ultimate strangers, and so the ultimate rapists.  Similarly, white men can’t be strangers and, of course, would never be interested at all in women of color so they aren’t raping women of color.  Plus, it all boils down to us vs. them, of course.  White people are good because they aren’t sexually assaulting the opposing “team.”

That is probably also why you never see a percentage of total rapes of white women when they repeat that number.  It sounds less pretty when the white people are winning because our men rape more of their “own kind” (similarly feathered birds?).

Comment #223: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/31  at  06:47 PM

America has real problems with

Mexican Mafias
Jewish Russian Mafias
or yeah - The Italian Mafia

Why’d you leave out the Irish mob? They’re Catholic like those swarthy Italians. Oh, wait, they’re from northern Europe, so they’re ok.

Technically, though, so are the Russian mafiya guys. Oh, wait, the only problem there is with da Jooooos.

Nah, you’re no bigot, just a guy looking for some objectivity. Oh, wait…

Comment #224: Gracchus.  on  08/31  at  06:54 PM

Yes. Because the Duke case definitely means no white man ever gets away with raping a black woman. It clearly means there is no such thing as racism. *sigh*

I swear I want to slap Mike Nifong upside the head for how he screwed up that case, just because we will be hearing about this one screwed-up case from every racist forever as ZOMG PROOF that WHITE MEN ARE OPPRESSED!

Comment #225: snowmentality  on  08/31  at  07:09 PM

Gracchus writes:

“Why’d you leave out the Irish mob? They’re Catholic like those swarthy Italians. Oh, wait, they’re from northern Europe, so they’re ok.”

I apologize for leaving out the “Irish mob” and yes, I know it does exist in parts of the East Coast. But, I live in Chicago and my understanding is the Irish mob was dominant here until the New York Italian Mafia came in an brutally took over from them. Capone was New York born and bred, the St. Valentine’s Day massacre:

“South Side Italian gang led by Al Capone and the North Side Irish gang led by Bugs Moran.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Valentine’s_Day_massacre

As for your comment that I left out the Irish mob because the Irish are “white”.....

That’s always in dispute whether the Irish really are “White” or are instead a race of crazed Hibernian mad men and mad women.

My ex wife “Joan” was very, very Irish - and I learned the hard way that the term “Fighting Irish” was not originated from a men’s football team - it describes Irish women.

grin

Comment #226: jack ryan  on  08/31  at  07:09 PM

We’ve got an old-school Aryan. Even those dirty southern Europeans aren’t white and are a problem. When did all these roaches decide to crawl out of the floorboards?

Comment #227: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/31  at  07:11 PM

MaJeff is spouting PC nonsense

“We’ve got an old-school Aryan. Even those dirty southern Europeans aren’t white and are a problem. When did all these roaches decide to crawl out of the floorboards?”
Comment #236: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits on 08/31 at 06:11 PM

Italian Americans are some of THE best Americans in America.

What would our country be without the likes of…

Frank Rizzo

Philadelphia Police Commissioner and Mayor

Didn’t have urban Black riots, race hustler fake “reverands” like Sharpton causing trouble in Philadelphia went a great Italian American like Frank was running things.

Comment #228: jack ryan  on  08/31  at  07:18 PM

You numbshit ignorant idiot @235, in the history of Celtic culture the only acceptable response when you had been insulted was to reclaim your honor by FIGHTING. In Celtic communities it was ritualized and recognized and everybody knew what was going on. Sort of like, you know, duels of honor in the Southern states during the Antebellum period, although obvs those were manly and distinguished because they involve people you personally recognize as white.

You betcha the Irish were portrayed as “crazed Hibernian mad men and mad women” when it served the folks in power to have them marginalized by that portrayal. Whiteness has always been a function of respectability and social position, not skin color or racial heritage, an inconvenient fact you wilfully ignore despite obviously having all the clues in hand.

Non-Celts, natch, didn’t give enough of a damn about Celtic culture to know or care that an angered Celt was responding to imperatives clearly defined within their cultural upbringing. It was all barbarian shite to them.

Oh yeah, and you forgot the Poles. Those were also swarthy, dirty, apelike, subhuman non-white “whites” at one time.

You racist fucking turd.

Comment #229: kristin  on  08/31  at  07:35 PM

Cracker can’t read. I didn’t say American, I said white.

Comment #230: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/31  at  07:52 PM

Wait, America has a HUGE problem w/the Italian mafia and yet Italian-Americans are some of the best Americans in America?

Comment #231: kristin  on  08/31  at  08:05 PM

They’re not white Americans.

Comment #232: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/31  at  08:09 PM

While we’re talking about the unbearable whiteness of being, demographic-style: Indians were classified by the census as Asian until WWII, at which point—as a means of honoring their service in wartime—they were upgraded to “white.”

Comment #233: Byronic Commando  on  08/31  at  08:16 PM

“Wait, America has a HUGE problem w/the Italian mafia and yet Italian-Americans are some of the best Americans in America?
Comment #240: kristin on 08/31 at 07:05 PM

Yes, America has had problems with the Italian Mafia.

Yes, Italian Americans are some of the best Americans in America.

There is nothing contradictory about those two statements.

Few, if any Italian Americans go in for PC, multi cultural, Frankfurt School cultural Marxism non-sense.

And urban Italian Americans live right next to Black Americans - they don’t flee to the suburbs. Italians Americans mostly treat Black Americans fairly - as have White Southerners.

Most Black Americans are decent good folks - the “colored folks”.

Those bad, wicked, no good Black criminals, race hustlers, assorted “bad means good” - hop hop, rap music perverts/thugs, well Italian Americans and White Southerners don’t put up with these bad people, why should the rest of us?

Comment #234: jack ryan  on  08/31  at  09:10 PM

Dude actually said “wicked”. Probably his issue with “hip hop, rap music perverts/thugs” is that they dance.

Comment #235: kristin  on  08/31  at  09:20 PM

Dude actually said “wicked”. Probably his issue with “hip hop, rap music perverts/thugs” is that they dance.
Comment #244: kristin on 08/31 at 08:20 PM

It is impossible to “dance” to hip hop, rap music.

Americans were once good partner dancers, some of us still are good dancers.

Please, everyone - don’t promote “bad” music, bad criminals, bad movies, bad TV shows, bad liars, bad hustlers. “Bad” does not mean “Good”.

Comment #236: jack ryan  on  08/31  at  09:28 PM

I fear that most whites in America have a dangerously simplistic understanding of racism. The general misunderstanding I encounter is that racism is hating someone because of their skin color. Thus, most whites believe they aren’t racist unless malice is involved—malice they can’t rationalize away, that is.**

I grew up and was educated in Northern KY. I was given this definition of racism…and I was additionally taught about racism in the past tense (“some people are still racist,” I was told, “but they are exceptions”).

Naturally, I was not told how to, say, cope with and overcome the discovery of racism in myself, if I discovered it in the future. How pointless! I wasn’t racist (by my teachers impeccable definition of racism), and kids never ever change. Besides, if I had any racist inclinations, I was a horrible, irredeemable monster and no one would ever love me, care about my opinions, or want me to become a less racist person.

So, with just my teachers from my elementary school alone, you have an estimated 500 kids (per year!) being explicitly taught a stupid, restrictive, and harmful definition of racism; while NOT being taught how to deal with their own racism; leading to thousands of adults who are too terrified of finding out they are horrible irredeemable monsters to investigate or challenge their own racism and too reactionary to being called racist (which, to them, is like being called a horrible person) to actually consider that maybe racism is something more than what they understand.

**(“I hate illegal immigration, not Mexicans.”, “It’s not skin color, it’s the way they talk like idiots.”, etc)

Comment #237: Diane  on  08/31  at  09:30 PM

jack ryan is familiar with Tom Clancy novels (or maybe just the films based on the books), but is confused/upset about a meaning of “bad” that has existed for well over a century.  He is the worst time traveler ever.

Comment #238: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/31  at  09:31 PM

That’s always in dispute whether the Irish really are “White” or are instead a race of crazed Hibernian mad men and mad women.

In dispute where? On St0rmfr0nt? No American who’s taken seriously has disputed that since 1963, conservatives included.

My ex wife “Joan” was very, very Irish - and I learned the hard way that the term “Fighting Irish” was not originated from a men’s football team - it describes Irish women.

Let me guess: in addition to your charming racism, you’re also opposed to no-fault divorce.

Cracker can’t read. I didn’t say American, I said white.

For him the two are synonymous. As is Xtian. If you’re talking about voting American citizens, throw in male.

Comment #239: Gracchus.  on  08/31  at  09:36 PM

jack ryan is familiar with Tom Clancy novels (or maybe just the films based on the books), but is confused/upset about a meaning of “bad” that has existed for well over a century.  He is the worst time traveler ever.

No, it’s the books. He’s a literary man, as he made clear. I love the trolls who reference action heroes, especially when they exhort everyone else to “turn off the TV boob tube, get away from Hollywood fantasy worlds.” Years later, my favourite remains the guy who referred to Prince Bush—without a hint of irony—as “our Jack Bauer President.”

Comment #240: Gracchus.  on  08/31  at  09:42 PM

All these nit picking, personal insults aside - I do want to ask this “Progressive” community:

Why did American “progressives”, Liberal/Leftists choose to attack, hate poor and working class White Americans?

Most White Americans are poor, working class - before the 1960s Leftists, anarchists, “progressives” even the American Communists could be counted on to take the side of say - coal miners, meat packers, long shore-man. Folks like Saul Alinsky organized mostly White workers in Chicago back of the yards meat processing plants - the aim of Saul Alinsky was to represent the legitimate rights of poor and working class Americans - not hang out with media elites, Wall Street investment bankers, Hollywood pervert/producers.

Why did the Liberal/Left - progressives in America turn against mostly White (America was 90% European in 1960) workers to attack White union workers, White poor people in the 1960s/70s - it was Norman Lear making “Archie Bunker” the ENEMY?

Do you folks just want to get invited to summer on Martha’s Vineyard with Henry Louis Gates riding on his tri-cycle, attend the Aspen Ideas festival? Go to Harvard, Yale, be politically correct - embrace the cause of the weak and generally look down on, abuse regular Americans that actually work in blue collar jobs just to get by?

Comment #241: jack ryan  on  08/31  at  09:46 PM

I fear that most whites in America have a dangerously simplistic understanding of racism. The general misunderstanding I encounter is that racism is hating someone because of their skin color. Thus, most whites believe they aren’t racist unless malice is involved—malice they can’t rationalize away, that is.

There’s also an aspect, which I noted above, that involves the active erasure of history. The United States has been, pretty much for the entirety of its history, a white supremacist nation. That’s not just culturally, but in terms of policy, and it goes much deeper than backs of buses or separate water fountains.

The issues that Shirley Sherrod was discussing earlier this year were about Department of Agriculture policies and practices that were intended to favor white farmers, and to deprive black farmers.  It was pretty much policy to attempt to drive black farmers off the land.  It was a similar issue with regard to housing policy. Blockbusting, redlining, covenants, restrictive lending policies…all oriented toward depriving African Americans of the ability to buy property and build wealth.  When programs like Social Security were put in place, there were developed so as to exclude blacks.  When we look at land trusts for Native Americans, it’s no coincidence that family lands are comprised of a half-acre here, a half-acre one hundred miles away….

All of this cuts against the ideological “greatness” of America.  But, that’s exactly what the United States has been…a white supremacist hellhole.

Comment #242: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/31  at  09:50 PM

hmmmmmmm….90% stick rool got a new stick up its ass.

Comment #243: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/31  at  09:51 PM

To the stuff about American being “90% white” at any point in it’s history, please define “white”. Because white in 1740 isn’t white in 1840, which isn’t white in 1920, which isn’t white in 1980.

Seriously, asshole, the Pennsylvania Dutch were once considered “swarthy”, for fucks sake.

Comment #244: Ben D.  on  08/31  at  09:56 PM

America was 90% European in 1960

No it was not.

Comment #245: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/31  at  10:00 PM

Why did American “progressives”, Liberal/Leftists choose to attack, hate poor and working class White Americans?

I don’t think it was all the liberals’ doing.  C.f., the Southern Strategy.

Comment #246: Captain Bathrobe  on  08/31  at  10:15 PM

I don’t think it was all the liberals’ doing.  C.f., the Southern Strategy.

Indeed.

What the fool fails to recognize is that the American communists attempted to do multi-racial organizing.  Not everything fits into the dude’s race-war framework. Sure, American policy was based on maintaining separation, but in many areas working-class whites organized with working-class people of color…and that’s what terrified the white capitalist class. Those parasites are the motherfucking enemies of all of us.

Comment #247: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/31  at  10:17 PM

Oh, and Italian-Americans in the late 19th and early 20th Century weren’t stereotyped as leftist extremists?

LOL WUT?

Ever heard of Sacco and Vanzetti? And no, troll, before you google it, it’s not a pizza chain.

Comment #248: Ben D.  on  08/31  at  10:22 PM

Or in another vein, Irish Catholics in the 1840s weren’t seen as subversive agents of a foreign power (namely, the Vatican)? They were, and it doesn’t seem that different from overblown fears of “Marxists” especially the year 2010.

Twenty fucking TEN. Twenty years after the virtual extinction of state endorsed Marxism-Leninism, and you senile tools are still wetting the bed over “Commies”. Die already.

Comment #249: Ben D.  on  08/31  at  10:26 PM

Why did American “progressives”, Liberal/Leftists choose to attack, hate poor and working class White Americans?

I wasn’t aware that the greedheads who destroyed the U.S. manufacturing base during the over the past 30 years were progressives. Damn hippie steel mill owners and auto execs!

Comment #250: Gracchus.  on  08/31  at  10:36 PM

Twenty fucking TEN. Twenty years after the virtual extinction of state endorsed Marxism-Leninism, and you senile tools are still wetting the bed over “Commies”. Die already.

They’re doing a re-make of Red Dawn for these dopes, and were left with the crony capitalist Chinese as the closest thing to a “Commie” country that could mount an invasion of the U.S. As an added bonus, guess the race of the traitorous mayor of the invaded town is.

Comment #251: Gracchus.  on  08/31  at  10:47 PM

It is impossible to “dance” to hip hop, rap music.

Americans were once good partner dancers, some of us still are good dancers.

You picked the wrong person to try this line of bullshit on, since I am a dancer. I study Middle Eastern dance (ZOMGOHNOSWARTHINESS). I fucking defy you to move with 1/100th the grace, skill and musicality of my classmates.


Oh and by the way most of us could probably take your scrawny, insecure ass in a fight too.

Comment #252: kristin  on  08/31  at  10:59 PM

So the answer is yes, I’d need a passport, and yes, Sweden has citizenship rules, and yes, Sweden requires identification, and yes, Sweden would deport me if I was “undocumented”?

From what I recall from people who have visited there, Sweden doesn’t round up anybody on the street who is not blonde, demand their papers, and throw them in a holding cell if they’re not produced.

Comment #253: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/31  at  11:02 PM

From what I recall from people who have visited there, Sweden doesn’t round up anybody on the street who is not blonde, demand their papers, and throw them in a holding cell if they’re not produced.

Funnily enough, after 9/11 immigration authorities had a phony “crackdown” on illegal immigration. The main culprits? Northern Europeans overstaying student and journalism visas in NYC. A hell of a lot were Swedes, though they didn’t reveal that at the time.

Comment #254: Ben D.  on  08/31  at  11:16 PM

Funnily enough, after 9/11 immigration authorities had a phony “crackdown” on illegal immigration. The main culprits? Northern Europeans overstaying student and journalism visas in NYC. A hell of a lot were Swedes, though they didn’t reveal that at the time.

Go to Boston. A huge chunk of the construction industry is illegal and Irish. And it’s not like Southie was a major funder of terrorist violence in the 1970s and 80s…But if you’re white, you’re all right.

Comment #255: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  08/31  at  11:33 PM

It’s my humble prediction that hispanics as a group will be in about 40 years at the most seen as white and the hispanic version of Stick Rool will be telling us all how America was “78% white in 2010!” against whatever new immigrant boogeyman will exist at that point.

Comment #256: Ben D.  on  08/31  at  11:54 PM

I think you are absolutely right Ben D.

Comment #257: alysia  on  09/01  at  12:01 AM

“You picked the wrong person to try this line of bullshit on, since I am a dancer. I study Middle Eastern dance (ZOMGOHNOSWARTHINESS). I fucking defy you to move with 1/100th the grace, skill and musicality of my classmates.
Oh and by the way most of us could probably take your scrawny, insecure ass in a fight too.”


Comment #261: kristin on 08/31 at 09:59 PM

Please. Americans in the Big Band Swing era could dance. American GI’s in WWII got a warm reception in England in France because they could…

Dance.

There was a slight dancing revival in the Disco era - but otherwise, no Americans can’t dance.

Try doing any lead and follow partner dancing to hip hop, rap, techno music - just bodies gyrating, American bodies….

that can’t dance.

it’s the same with boxing. American boxers - most notably Black African American boxers were great in the 70s, 80s, early 90s. Now, we never even challenge for medals in the Olympics and the middle to heavy weight boxing champions are from Germany, Ukraine.

But, the American Mainstream Media - the lamestream media doesn’t show boxing these days - doesn’t like White boxing champions.

Hey Kristin, have you ever made any man happy in your life? Ever just had a nice dance and followed the man’s lead and not lectured the man about PC politics or all sorts of Leftist nonsense?

Maybe you should take up partner dancing, date/marry a steel worker - learn the joys of life that your grandmother once knew.

Comment #258: jack ryan  on  09/01  at  12:01 AM

Jack, get a goddamn job already. Or volunteer. Or get a hobby. Or get laid. Something.

You’re just sad if the point of your entire short life is to “piss off libs” on the internet.

Comment #259: Ben D.  on  09/01  at  12:05 AM

Jack,
What fucking steelworkers? Your putative home city of Chicago used to be a major center of the steel industry, and now it’s a shadow of its former self. Ditto the entire Rust Belt. Shit, I grew up in what was basically a one-firm aerospace industry town in the Midwest, and there’s not much going on there, either.

You so scared of brown people you haven’t left your house in 50 years? What’s the matter with you?

Comment #260: Matty  on  09/01  at  12:12 AM

It’s so cute when a Republican pretends to care about blue-collar industrial workers right after demonizing them as “union thugs” and promoting trade policies that outsource their jobs.

Comment #261: Ben D.  on  09/01  at  12:26 AM

Americans were once good partner dancers, some of us still are good dancers.

All the people into ballroom dancing, swing, salsa, and folk dancing who are not themselves members of ethnic groups whose folk dances they are performing are all the left-wing hippie-types.

Comment #262: Tyro  on  09/01  at  12:28 AM

Hey Kristin, have you ever made any man happy in your life? Ever just had a nice dance and followed the man’s lead

Wow, you really are a pathetic shitstain aren’t you? Crawl back under your hole.

Swing dance is great, for the record. You do know that before it was your beloved nice partner dance that real Ammurikans do, it was filthy, sexual, animalistic n****r dancing no respectable white person would get anywhere near, right? Ditto Latin ballroom dancing?

If you want some dancing that has always been lily white, try Morris dancing. I think that one might be safe.

Jesus, this is sad. My left pinkie toe knows more about dancing than this slackjawed moron does. It’s like when Christians try to lecture about the Bible without ever having read it.

Comment #263: kristin  on  09/01  at  12:43 AM

Jack,
What fucking steelworkers? Your putative home city of Chicago used to be a major center of the steel industry, and now it’s a shadow of its former self. Ditto the entire Rust Belt. Shit, I grew up in what was basically a one-firm aerospace industry town in the Midwest, and there’s not much going on there, either.
You so scared of brown people you haven’t left your house in 50 years? What’s the matter with you?
Comment #269: Matty on 08/31 at 11:12 PM

Matty,

How about just taking the side of regular American workers - many of them White American workers?

Just go in to any New England town, Midwestern town, Southern Town, Rocky Mountains and find some regular American folks many will be regular White American folks.

DON’T HATE THEM!

Don’t take the side of Hollywood perverts/idiots, Al Quada terrorists, PC Manhattan Jewish Lesbian supreme court nominees, Wall Street $ billionaire scam artists, Neo Conservative war mongers, CNN talking heads that have changed their named to things like Wolf Blitzer, $ billionaire agribusiness owners that want to import sub minimum wage slave workers in animal abusing, environmental destroying hell merchants who’s work environments would make The Jungle by author and journalist Upton Sinclair look safe and humane.

There is more to life than Manhattan, Harvard and Yale, Hollywood and this PC cultural marxist BS that demonizes regular Americans for thought crimes.

No regular Americans are not evil RACISTS

Think regular working class Americans are not politically correct, go try to have a gay and lesbian pride parade in Saudi Arabia.

And the Sudan has brought back slavery!

Is it OK with folks here if I have a beer and listen to some Motown?

Comment #264: jack ryan  on  09/01  at  12:56 AM

“jack ryan”‘s comments are a word salad of right wing shibboleths.

Comment #265: Tyro  on  09/01  at  01:00 AM

If you want some dancing that has always been lily white, try Morris dancing. I think that one might be safe.

My super-lefty Mom loves Morris dancing (and other traditional dances of the British Isles), in keeping with Tyro’s observation above. All the “white” dances are danced by the wrong kind of whites.

Comment #266: Matty  on  09/01  at  01:01 AM

“Is it OK with folks here if I have a beer and listen to some Motown?”

The beer’s okay, as long as it’s Miller or Budweiser. 

But Motown?  Sorry, Pat Boone is as close to Motown as you’re allowed…

Comment #267: MikeEss  on  09/01  at  01:03 AM

Jack, you asshole, I’m amazed at the energy you put in to believing the the problems for your precious white American workers are caused by some kind of Judeo-Afro-Marxist conspiracy, rather than good old fashioned white greed. If you gave a shit about the American worker, you’d know the history of that shit.

Too bad the Asshole Park Public Library doesn’t stock anything like that.

Comment #268: Matty  on  09/01  at  01:08 AM

Where you at the Tea Party Rally? I was in DC at the time. There weren’t steel mill workers. I saw lots of $1000 cameras, 50ish dudes with chicks my age, people that had the time and money to take a week off work to go see this guy from a tv show they like. I think you may be confusing David Brooks’s idea of working-class, middle America with the real place. I am from the Mid West and will be the first to say that upper middle class people in the big city are as if not more racist than working class midwesterners—you are the only one here using the “noble savage” type frame that the MSM uses to talk about them. And, while i loves me some hollywood perverts, I think people on this blog would be “against” all those things, and Amanda has blogged about many of them.

Comment #269: alysia  on  09/01  at  01:11 AM

@kristin

If you aren’t pleasuring a man, then whatever it is you are doing is wrong and you are doing it badly.  That is why only dirty communists ballet “dance” and need to get the fuck out of Boston.

Course, you should stay away from those steelworking union <strike>thugs</strike> Liberal-hating Republicans.  I’d recommend a police officer (since that was my grandfather’s career and he sure as fuck provided the “joys of life that [my] grandmother once knew” and still knows), but they are unionized too!  In addition, there is no way that someone like my grandfather would provide the kind of joy our 90% white advice-giver is advocating, which I assume involve rants like those here, ethnic slurs, and an unnatural aversion to gyrating.  His wife may be grateful for that, but it isn’t what I would want in my partner (nor would my grandma).

Between the birther in the other thread and Mr. “Goddamn the kids today and their happiness” over here, I’m beginning to wonder if Glenn Beck’s craziness this weekend didn’t drive a bunch of people off the deep-end.

Comment #270: Atheist, A Feminist  on  09/01  at  01:11 AM

Black domestics and porters, Latino and Asian agricultural workers…none of these people were working class. That’s the position of our Stormfronter. None of these people have anything in common with the white working class. No. The white working class and the black domestic and the Latino farm worker…none of these people share exploitation at the hand of capitalist parasites…

Oops. marxism. Better start slamming queers and Jews!

Comment #271: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  09/01  at  01:19 AM

If you aren’t pleasuring a man, then whatever it is you are doing is wrong and you are doing it badly.

Obvs. Oops, I guess I forgot for like 12 years that everything my body does is supposed to please a man. I sort of got this nutty idea that I could do things with it that, you know, please ME. Well that’s what I get for hanging around with those notoriously radical-marxist-leftist bellydancers, amirite?

The really sad thing is, you know how we talk about true wingnuts being impossible to dinstinguish from a parody anymore? Yeah, until your link I was assuming it was actually jack replying to me. *SOB* The crazy is truly dizzying.

Comment #272: kristin  on  09/01  at  01:21 AM

Also, Mr Kristin and I were giggling about how Jack’s idea of “pleasing a man” is a nice partner dance. We feel he’s sadly limited in scope there, you know? Between the two of us we came up with several much more interesting possibilities pretty fast. But oh well, Jack’s a wingnut, he has a tiny penis anyway.

Comment #273: kristin  on  09/01  at  01:25 AM

@kristin

I’m sorry.  I do highly recommend that episode, though.  It helps a lot whenever any of these guys start going on and on to just picture them in the ridiculous protest against visiting (about to defect) communist ballerinas.

Comment #274: Atheist, A Feminist  on  09/01  at  01:26 AM

This was my partner’s first thought of what jack ryan must have been thinking.

Comment #275: Atheist, A Feminist  on  09/01  at  01:33 AM

he has a tiny penis anyway

Ohhhh that’s why he’s so angry.

Comment #276: banisteriopsis  on  09/01  at  02:51 AM

Hey Kristin, have you ever made any man happy in your life?

Tell us how you do it, Jack…

Comment #277: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  09/01  at  07:05 AM

Hey Kristin, have you ever made any man happy in your life?

Because, after all, the only purpose women serve is as fuck toys for men.

Comment #278: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  09/01  at  09:05 AM

Hey Kristin, have you ever made any man happy in your life?
Because, after all, the only purpose women serve is as fuck toys for men.
Comment #287: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits on 09/01 at 08:05 AM

Such negativity - life here seems to be a constant stream of “F this, F that, F everything”

No of course, American women should not be treated as sex slaves.

Know what folks, I went to a church last weekend - urban, university community. Mostly White, but I’d say ~ 10% Black, same as the population of the USA. There were lots and lots of women there, women who were, get this…

MARRIED

Married with beautiful, small children.

They did not seem to be acting “oppressed”, no, they seemed really happy. No one, least of all their husbands were bossing them around, instead it looked like they were mostly running things.


I heard some real nice church music, some teens talking about their experiences with bugs and other teens at a recent camping event.

Maybe some folks might try this experience, spend some time around positive, healthy, regular American folks

Comment #279: jack ryan  on  09/01  at  09:31 AM

Maybe some folks might try this experience, spend some time around positive, healthy, regular American folks

The implication, of course, is that none of us are nice, positive, healthy, regular Americans. None of the people here are married, of course. None would ever go to a church or spend time around teens. 

I spent Friday night at a party with friends, several of whom are parents, some of whom are grandparents, many of whom are churchgoers. We ate and laughed and talked about our jobs and food and baseball. But, since we teach, we’re not real Americans. We’re not regular folks with families or mortgages or rents or bills.

Fuck off, scum.

Comment #280: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  09/01  at  10:35 AM

This can’t be a thing. jack, chris and liz are just too preposterous for words, you never even see this ish at FreeRepublic (at least the first two guys, Elizabeth’s birthering is standard issue) - *someone* is joking around in the comments section.

Comment #281: Selena777  on  09/01  at  10:52 AM

No of course, American women should not be treated as sex slaves.

True. Technically, in the Gilead of your dreams, wives should be treated as breeding slaves and chattel. Recreational sex is obviously just for sluts.

Comment #282: Gracchus.  on  09/01  at  12:03 PM

MAJeff writes:

“The implication, of course, is that none of us are nice, positive, healthy, regular Americans. None of the people here are married, of course. None would ever go to a church or spend time around teens. .... We’re not regular folks with families or mortgages or rents or bills.
Fuck off, scum.
Comment #280: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits on 09/01 at 09:35 AM

No MAJeff, I was making “observations” not making “implications” - I notice that you and most of the people here use the “F word” a lot. Nice people don’t do that. Here is an area where you can make some self improvement.

And my other observation that people here and the American so called “Progressives”, “Leftists” since the early 1960s have often been very hostile to the culture, values of regular Americans, including poor and working class White Americans.

I am not the only one to make this observation.

John Lennon and Paul McCartney made the same observation/comments that I am making in ~ 1967
addressing the likes of Abbie Hoffman.

“You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it’s evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don’t you know that you can count me out
Don’t you know it’s gonna be all right
all right, all right

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We’d all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We’re doing what we can
But when you want money
for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is brother you have to wait
Don’t you know it’s gonna be all right
all right, all right
Ah

ah, ah, ah, ah, ah…

You say you’ll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it’s the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don’t you know it’s gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right “


So why don’t you lighten up a bit, no a LOT - give regular working class, poor and middle class Americans a break - stop trying to persecute them for “thought crimes”, there are plenty of extremely rich, abusive, destructive people in the world, in our country that deserve some opposition - deserved to be confronted, insulted.

How about the rich SOB’s that own, run these very destructive Agribusinesses in Iowa? Maybe these rich, destructive SOBs are giving some money to “progressive” causes,  so they are getting a free pass


http://www.theatlantic.com/food/archive/2010/08/in-iowa-egg-country-stench-suspicion-and-fear/62226/

In Iowa Egg Country: Stench, Suspicion, and Fear

Comment #283: jack ryan  on  09/01  at  01:03 PM

As long as conservatives cling to their vision of Real Americans(TR) as the last, purest vestiges of a by-gone era (that never really existed), trolls just like the ones haunting Pandagon’s threads are going to stick to their bull-headed insistence that anyone who falls outside their classification of Real Americans(TR) are not worth caring about, have never been marginalized by the majorities, and in fact are the ones actually responsible for all of society’s ills.  They can no more fathom the concept of the benefits of diversity and cooperation than they can alter the laws of physics.  Armed only with Google, their anecdotal and limited experiences, and unshakable belief that they are absolutely right and everyone who disagrees with them are absolutely wrong, they thrive on the attention they receive when they make outrageous claims.  They’re not interested in constructive discussion.  They’re trolls.  Don’t feed them.

Comment #284: mythbri  on  09/01  at  01:04 PM

In this cornucopia of idiocy, I’ll take time to point out one aspect:

How about the rich SOB’s that own, run these very destructive Agribusinesses in Iowa? Maybe these rich, destructive SOBs are giving some money to “progressive” causes, so they are getting a free pass

What “progessive” causes? While I understand your view of public libraries being dangerous nests of liberals, corporate donations to them are as standard issue small-town philanthropy/corporate giving as are the other things mentioned in the article (BBQ events/picnics, patriotic festivals, fountain resorations). Are you claiming that all these are particularly progressive activities?

More in line with bad corporate citizenship described elsewhere in the article are the right-wing hallmarks described in this graf:

Before I left town, I stopped by the DeCoster Farms corporate office on Route 69. It’s a small brick building, dwarfed in size by the animal confinements, and it flies three flags at full mast on the roof: one is the American, one is the Iowan, and one is white with a blood-red crucifix. In the parking lot, one car had liberal bumper stickers for Obama/Biden and the ecumenical “Coexist”—edgy choices for a notoriously born-again corporate climate in which a manager once alleged that Jack DeCoster personally fired him for being atheist.

So if I’m reading you correctly, you’re basing your claim for the company’s “progressive” politics on a bumper sticker in the parking lot of a closed office building. Please ignore the Xtian fantasism, folks.

Understand, Jack, we’re not as stupid and intellectually lazy as you are.

Comment #285: Gracchus.  on  09/01  at  01:37 PM

They’re not interested in constructive discussion.  They’re trolls.  Don’t feed them.

I know, but when they try to associate progressivism with scumbag companies run by right-wing religious nuts, I have to at least point the disconnect with reality.

Comment #286: Gracchus.  on  09/01  at  01:40 PM

“How about the rich SOB’s that own, run these very destructive Agribusinesses in Iowa? Maybe these rich, destructive SOBs are giving some money to “progressive” causes, so they are getting a free pass”

Oh, yeah, I’m just positive that the Egg Barons are just shoveling money into Leftist causes, just so the All Powerful Professional Left will look the other way.  Prove it, dickhead...

It’s far more reasonable to assume (as history amply shows) that the Egg Barons have “conservatives/Republicans” in their pockets (with plenty of “New” Democrats vying for the same cash).  With regulatory capture and the general corruption of politics in America, no wonder they get whatever they want, and people’s lives be damned…

“They’re not interested in constructive discussion.  They’re trolls.  Don’t feed them.”

The problem is if you just their their slander sit there unremarked on, the implication is that we accept what they say as truth, which is utterly wrong.  So it’s kind of a dilemma: Responding maybe encourage more derails, or ignoring which gives them a platform for spewing lies unopposed…

???

Comment #287: MikeEss  on  09/01  at  01:44 PM

No MAJeff, I was making “observations” not making “implications” - I notice that you and most of the people here use the “F word” a lot. Nice people don’t do that. Here is an area where you can make some self improvement.

Clutch those pearls harder.

And, as Gracchus noted, do try to keep up. It’s fascinating to see right-wing trolls, who are so happy to accuse the left of class warfare whenever it attempts to criticize corporate America, or the entire move toward deregulation that DeCoster and the Kochs and the Waltons and BP and Exxon and ADM and others that have allowed them to get away with no oversight and poison our water and food then come back and attack us for cultural class antagonism toward….white racism? Willful ignorance?

Comment #288: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  09/01  at  01:48 PM

Gracchus sites a key part of the article in The Atlantic Article on the hideous animal abusing, environment abusing, worker abusing, community abusing agribusiness:

“Before I left town, I stopped by the DeCoster Farms corporate office on Route 69. It’s a small brick building, dwarfed in size by the animal confinements, and it flies three flags at full mast on the roof: one is the American, one is the Iowan, and one is white with a blood-red crucifix. In the parking lot, one car had liberal bumper stickers for Obama/Biden and the ecumenical “Coexist”—edgy choices for a notoriously born-again corporate climate in which a manager once alleged that Jack DeCoster personally fired him for being atheist”

I also noticed this, so here is a real opportunity to go after a real, rich, Right Wing bad guy - complete with religious right symbols.

So why aren’t “progressives” here and everywhere - going after this REAL BAD RICH, RIGHT WING AGRIBUSINESS OWNER?

Instead folks are wasting lots of time screaming “You’re RACIST” at regular White folks participating in some Glen Beck rally and most of the folks are sincere, concerned that their/our country seems to be going down in many bad ways that they don’t really understand and rich FOX talking heads like Glen Beck present themselves as having “the answers”.

Progressives, Liberals, Leftists, socialists, trade union organizers even American Communists used to get in their with regular poor and working class Americans, including poor and working class White Americans and take their side against abusive meat packing industries, steel monopolists, Peabody coal company etc.

What happened? Why did/do “progressives” target, harass, hate regular working Americans and give really abusive rich SOB owners of “scumbag companies” a virtual free pass?

Comment #289: jack ryan  on  09/01  at  01:55 PM

Typical nonsense. The politics of resentment and nothing more.

Comment #290: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  09/01  at  01:57 PM

So why aren’t “progressives” here and everywhere - going after this REAL BAD RICH, RIGHT WING AGRIBUSINESS OWNER?

You seem to think it’s because this company donates to libraries, Flag Day festivals, fountain restorations, picnics, and who knows what other horrific causes that progressives (and progressives alone) love. Oh yeah, and because one car had an Obama bumpersticker on it. Correct?

Or perhaps it’s because we’re all wealthy fatcats—the same anti-union greedhead hippies who destroyed the ability of hard-working, white Americans to make a living without a college degree by destroying and exporting the manufacturing base. Which is an interesting, if completely insane, concept.

There are progressive blogs and sites that focus on agribusiness and all the evil stuff it perpetrates. Since you’re clearly slow on the update, I’ll not that this blog is mainly focused on issues of feminism, GLBT rights and atheism, as well as the opposition of right-wingers to those issues. Companies like this one and ADM do come up from time to time, usually in discussions about food or energy issues.

Comment #291: Gracchus.  on  09/01  at  02:43 PM

Since you’re clearly slow on the update, I’ll not that this blog is mainly focused on issues of feminism, GLBT rights and atheism, as well as the opposition of right-wingers to those issues.

Which is exactly why he’s here.

Comment #292: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  09/01  at  02:46 PM

Which is exactly why he’s here.

So as usual, we’re reduced to two choices: is he playing dumb, or is he just plain dumb? Care to give us the answer, Jack?

Comment #293: Gracchus.  on  09/01  at  03:01 PM

@MikeEss #287

I know, it’s a Catch-22 situation: ignore them and they claim victory, engage them and and they keep coming back for more.

But when their argument essentially follows this pattern:

Troll: Outrageous statement!
Reasonable Commentor: Doubtful.  Citation?
Troll: Google!  And personal story, hyperbolized to reinforce my point!
Reasonable Commentor: Refute and discredit.
Troll: Nuh-uh!

At what point do we abandon futile attempts to reason with the unreasonable?

Comment #294: mythbri  on  09/01  at  03:08 PM

So as usual, we’re reduced to two choices: is he playing dumb, or is he just plain dumb?

Remember, though, this is a both/and blog.

Comment #295: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  09/01  at  03:14 PM

mythbri @294, my observation is that after a couple cycles of the playlet you describe, a troll either goes on to repeat the same shit that’s been discredited already or has a spectacular, blithering meltdown into the truly and obviously detached from reality (witness jack and his fetish for a nice partner dance; Austin Nedved chose instead to swear up and down that trees reproduce asexually and Elizabeth went on a birther rant).

To me, either of these things occurring is the signal that it’s time to shift from arguing to making fun. I prefer the approach that mocks a troll for being the completely pants-soiling incapable-of-dealing-with-reality child that they invariably are. You may find your Muse in another direction. Fly and be free.

Comment #296: kristin  on  09/01  at  09:39 PM

To be fair, the photo you’ve presented is better than the one they were originally going to go with…
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz315/copperpuppy/notatallracist.jpg

Comment #297: copper  on  09/01  at  10:11 PM
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