I’m not sure exactly what to make of that men’s studies curriculum.  I mean, I’m sure a lot of it is patriarchal bullshit: Male Victimization, men and spirituality, and men in literature all sound like pretty weak sauce, and then, a lot of these classes look to be extremely basic.  But there is a class titled “Patriarchy,” anyway, so this program may be at least somewhat critical.

But masculinity studies are certainly worth pursuing, in the way that whiteness studies are important:  otherwise, it keeps non-white/non-male as the only things that need to be studied, while the privileged classes remain somewhat free from examination.

Billingham, I feel the same way.  Also, they have two women professors involved in the program from WMST and Gender Studies.  But then again, the website says:

The Women’s Movement, the Peace Movement, and the Industrial Revolution, all have made sweeping cultural changes that have gravely affected the lives of men, generally redefining “male” identity. Some men have welcomed these changes and made the adjustment. Others have actively resisted the forces intent upon redefining them. In the wake of this cultural evolution, many men find themselves lost and confused, angry and alienated.

Oh noes, the poor dudez!

Most WMST courses already do a good job dismantling masculinity and explaining how sexism harms men.  I wish more men would take the courses though.  I think the average male college student probably doesn’t really understand what the classes are about, and thinks he won’t relate.

Male Victimization seems an incredibly important subject (at least in the context of crime). What could be wrong in classical criminology was that gender aspects were ignored altogether and victimization was not problematic at all. Then with feminism breaking in, there were more critical looks on victimhood, the construction of the victim, the denial of agency and so on, which have been incredibly important. Nowadays there are hopefully gender and crime, and victimization classes in criminology, as well as in gender studies and women’s studies. To have more focused subjects like Female and Male Victimization is certainly not beyond the pale.
Some problems of male victimization, like being denied victimhood, the notion of taking it like a man, living with expectations of capacity of violence, being both perpetrator and victim… it’s a field open for a critical approach.

There’s nothing wrong with doing men’s studies, as I think that women’s studies have shown that it too is needed.

Completely agree with Amanduh that it’s a pity that a lot of men have not realised that women’s/gender studies courses are pretty much essential for understanding the world, the way I see it.

Damn, no masters of creation degree?  Where will my son be able to fulfill his dream of becoming Slardibardfast some day if there is no masters of creation degree?

Anders, I think the term “critical approach” are central to the value of such exercises.  It is one thing to deconstruct male victimization, quite another to validate certain modes of it that construe “victimization” with “having to behave yourself and compete fairly”.

Institute leaders have said they would teach both the creationist and evolutionist views, but that their group favors the former.

Favoring the former is why they aren’t scientists.

Again, if they have a credible alternative theory, publish it!  Yes, the scientific community will resist it—look at the history of string theory—but publish your results, and eventually you will win over b/c facts can’t be denied.

What?

They don’t have any tests/hypotheses/ideas other than trying to retrofit the answer “God did it”?  Never mind then.

“In the wake of this cultural evolution, many men find themselves lost and confused, angry and alienated. Most of the changes have come about so rapidly that orderly social adjustment has been impossible. Cultures forced to abandon a tradition must replace it with a new tradition of equal value, or find expression of such loss in violent substitutes. It is not surprising then, at a time when many men experience a loss of power, identity, self-worth and purpose, that we are witnessing an upsurge of crime, addiction, divorce, and chronic illness. Proactive solutions are few, in part, because men are under organized, confused about what is happening, uninformed about their rights and their situation, or just resistant to change. Even major men’s organizations established to effect change, such as, Promise Keepers, The national Organization for Men Against Sexism, and New Warriors, receive little ongoing attention from the media, and have been ineffective at rallying many constituencies of the wider society.”

One can easily imagine a similar argument being made about anti-White-ism in about 1870…and it would make about as much sense…

***

Master of Creation? 

I thought they had already invented God, right?  Ain’t enough room on this planet for more than One God…unless He can divide Himself into Three…but still remain One…but divided into Three…but…

And shouldn’t you be able to prove you can Create before being granted a Master of Creation?...

Yeah, Antigone, but this doesn’t look like it’s about how patriarchy hurts men.  It looks like it’s about how feminism hurts men - and that’s a world of difference.

No Masters of Creationism?  I suppose the next thing you’re going to tell me is that there will be no Doctor of Magic.

Don’t knock all men’s studies programs.  Hobart & William Smith Colleges (I went there for 3 semesters) has a men’s studies minor, and is all around strong in gender studies.  They are of the heart Kimmel hate Bly kind.  They have a good interdisciplinary focus, and work on things like race, sexuality and how the patriarchy hurts men. 

http://academic.hws.edu/mensstud/index.asp

Well, it says something about a university when they have to put information on accreditation front and center on their home page.

I agree that a well organized Men’s Studies program could be a really good thing, but I certainly wouldn’t expect Akamai U. to offer it.

Magis, I believe only Arkham University offers a doctorate program in thaumaturgy.

It is not surprising then, at a time when many men experience a loss of power, identity, self-worth and purpose, that we are witnessing an upsurge of crime, addiction, divorce, and chronic illness.

That’s odd.  I may be wrong, but I thought that crime rates and chronic illness rates are actually decreasing.  Also, I haven’t seen much evidence that addiction is increasing.  I know that divorce rates are increasing, but I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing.  Does anyone have info about the rates of these various things?

I think that, for the cultural moment, at least, any Men’s Studies curriculum needs to be treated very skeptically. All the above reasons why it is a good thing are valid, if that is what they are actually focused on.

After all, it isn’t hard to imagine the same kind of college that would even consider a Creation Science degree setting up a Women’s Studies program that centers purely around housekeeping, parenting, decorating, and entertaining.

Following the link in the OP, it sure looks to me like the program focuses on How To Keep the Patriarchy Alive and Healthy in a Hostile World. I’d love to be wrong.

At the same time, there will be some self-selecting. The kind of man who lives the patriarchy may well avoid such a degree as not being manly enough. Why study what God already sorted out for you?

The last time there was a thread on the Creation Science major, people (I think rightly) pointed out that it looked a lot like a tool to get teachers specifically degreed to extend the BS into school systems that have held out so far based on things like “science teachers need a degree in an accredited scientific field.”

When I was a teenager, my church started a Promise Keepers group, and my cheating dad even joined it.  At first I was excited that there’s a group that emphasizes the husband’s role in having a good marriage, instead of putting all the responsibility/blame on the wife.  I thought it was great that there was a group where men would be admired for not cheating and for spending more time with their kids.  I was really disappointed to find out later that along with this good stuff, there was also a bunch of crap about being the decision-maker and being the stronger one, etc.  (Although my dad never tried to change this at home, nor did any of the other men to my knowledge).  It’s just a shame how this stuff is sort of sneaked in under the guise of a good group.

<blockquote>Magis, I believe only Arkham University offers a doctorate program in thaumaturgy.</blockquote)

(I had to look that term up)

*large giggle*

Well, I can’t say I didn’t learn something today.

*grumble*

Note to self.  Use the *&!!@ Preview button, you lazy !!@#$%.

Fortunately, accrediting bodies are still acting in a sensible way about “creation science” and “intelligent design”.  Very few trained scientists defect to those areas, and accreditation boards still listen to the scientific community (mostly!).

I have had a running argument with a religion professor at my college (I am a physics professor) about “intelligent design”.  He simply doesn’t understand that scientists are not being closed-minded for rejecting ID, but he is the first to admit he doesn’t know much about science himself.

I bet that degree from Arkham University is worth more than a Master of Creation degree from Akamai University. 

For one thing, it’s certainly more grounded in reality.  Besides, Dr. Herbert West is one of their most distinguished professors.  He holds the prestigious Howard Lovecraft chair in Advanced Metaphysical Studies.  His lectures are so stimulating, he can take really dull topics or people and bring them back to life…

Where will my son be able to fulfill his dream of becoming Slardibardfast some day if there is no masters of creation degree?

Ms. Kate, he’ll just have to take that “Large Structures: Fjords, Peaks, and Valleys” specialization in his landscape architecture degree.

Me, I’m wondering if I can transfer any credits from my History MA to the Revisionist MA program.  *crosses fingers*

I suppose the next thing you’re going to tell me is that there will be no Doctor of Magic.

Does that mean we should address them as Mr. Strange and Mr. Doom?  What is this going to do to Dumbledore’s teaching credentials?

Seriously, I would have fucking loved to see a Masters in Creationism get recognized.  It would be like a giant blinking sign over your head that says, “Please don’t take me seriously.”  Maybe after that we can finally start getting them to recognize my degree in Angelology.
http://www.internetbiblecollege.com/subjects/13-subjects/15-angelology-by-ken-chant

:-p

Magis, I believe only Arkham University offers a doctorate program in thaumaturgy.

Miskatonic University has degree programs in a wide range of occult fields, and a world-class library.  Alas, their best copy of Necronomicon was checked out nearly a century ago and never returned.  Those that remain are generally considered poor translations.  There are several copies of Malleus Maleficarum, however, and one with facing-page English translation is particularly good.

I know that divorce rates are increasing, but I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing.

Actually, divorce rates have been decreasing since the late 1970s.  The myth of constantly increasing divorce rates is one of the most persistent ones out there, but it’s not backed up by the facts.

We do have the highest divorce rate in the world (which matches up with the fact that we also have the highest marriage rate in the world), but it’s been stable for several decades now.

Mnemosyne,

Thank you for clearing that up for me.  I guess the divorce rate is just like the other 3 things on that list then, and people are worrying for no reason.  I’m amazed that the divorce rate is as low as 17.7%; even I thought it was over 40% for some reason.

Mnemosyne,

Thanks for the link. I love how the co-author of the report says the rise in cohabitation is bad for children and thus society, because it’s inherently less stable than marriage - in (apparently) the same breath as noting that cohabitation rates are higher in Europe *and* more children grow up with both biological parents there.

Catgirl:

That’s not a percentage. It’s 17.7 per thousand married women per year, which is very difficult to translate into a comparison to the usual crap about 40/50/whatever percent of marriages end in divorce. You have to figure out how long people live, when they marry, and most important what happens with people who movein and out of the pool. If you had a sample of seven women happily married for 40 years and elizabeth taylor you’d still have a majority of marriages ending in divorce…

It’s funny how it’s always “divorce rates increasing!” and never “number of aimless marriages decreasing!”. (Nevermind that the divorce rates aren’t increasing.)

This appears to be a Jungian program, and as such is essentialist - men the leaders, women the followers, etc. I suspect that it is largely aimed at new-age types and has little or no contact with conservative Christianity or conservative Christians (who would not be particularly happy to associate with the “world wisdom traditions”, drums-in-the-woods crowd). I think that the program means to update patriarchy for the modern world, given its links list includes MRA organizations but few legit. demographic and psychological associations, academic centers, or other non-advocacy organizations. Plus, there’s a resources reading list that has the usual suspects including all the “boo-hoo, boys are shortchanged in school” books.

There is a definite role for gender studies that critically examine masculinity from the male point of view. No one disputes the fact that “masculinity” is a constricted role in current pop culture and ideology. The caring role is truncated early on by peer pressure and mass culture. The bullies, football heroes, thugs, and studs all get recognition, but the boys that help out at home, stick up for unpopular kids, do community service once in a while, do well at school, but are neither wealthy nor athletic stars nor handsome and most sought after by the high status girls- these are unrecognized and often unhappy boys. Too bad, because boys derided as “boy scouts” in their early teens are the ones with staying power as adults.

Notice it is the “divorce rate”, irrespective of the “went out for a pack of cigarettes and didn’t bother with the legal formalities” rate.

There are many very good men’s studies programs out there.  McGill University, for instance, has one of the leading ones.

There is a definite role for gender studies that critically examine masculinity from the male point of view.

Actually, gender studies programs should critically examine masculinity from the sociological/psychological/historical/anthropological point of view.  It’s an academic discipline, not a consciousness-raising session—at least, the good programs are.

I have had a running argument with a religion professor at my college (I am a physics professor) about “intelligent design”.  He simply doesn’t understand that scientists are not being closed-minded for rejecting ID, but he is the first to admit he doesn’t know much about science himself.

That line of thinking isn’t limited to non-scientists.  I know respected physicists in accredited departments who (privately) buy into ID quite comfortably while going about their secular little routines of measuring optical vortices in Poynting vector fields.  It goes without saying, of course, that said physicists are religiously devout.

Sorry, I guess I’ve had the Necronomicon out for quite while now, haven’t I? As usual, it’s the book I haven’t read that I owe the biggest fines on.

Like Magus, I had to look up thaumaturgy.  I have no real feelings on men’s studies one way or another, not being aware that there was such a thing until this morning, but it seems to me that any university that offers a degree in thaumaturgy is suspect, so I looked it up too.  Now I am not surprised.  I never read H. P. Lovecraft, so my knowledge of Arkham University was also non-existent, so I’ve learned at least three things this morning, from one post. 

There is a reason they call them universities.

I’m always delighted to find a Pandagon thread that’s gone Cthulu.  It’s even better than going Godwin!

When I first heard of Pandagon, ages ago, I read the name as ‘pan-Dagon’ and thought ‘Nice Lovecraft reference!’  The stuff about the not-exactly-bears confused the hell out of me.

befuggled:  “Sorry, I guess I’ve had the Necronomicon out for quite while now, haven’t I? As usual, it’s the book I haven’t read that I owe the biggest fines on.”

Wilbur?  Wilbur Whateley, is that you?  I thought that pesky dog had killed you! 

Charles Dexter Ward, here, and I’ve often wondered who checked that book out and never returned it.  Please return it post-haste, as I need it to talk to some “salty” relatives of mine.

Sorry, I guess I’ve had the Necronomicon out for quite while now, haven’t I? As usual, it’s the book I haven’t read that I owe the biggest fines on.

If you think the Great Old Ones are bad, wait ‘til you get the stinkeye from the front desk staff.  Other people have been waiting for that book, and some of them haven’t even been devoured yet.

I’m not really sure where you go with a degree in making shitty YouTube videos and building fake, reactionary museums.

Three words:  Accredited science teachers.

Other people have been waiting for that book, and some of them haven’t even been devoured yet.

Well, not completely.  Just… stay out of the reserve stacks at night.  It’s better for everyone that way.

Does that mean we should address them as Mr. Strange and Mr. Doom?

Actually, Dr. Strange is an MD, although he hasn’t practiced in a long time.  As for Dr. Doom?  He probably has honorary doctorates at the Latverian state universities.  Either way, I’d recommend you call the man whatever he tells you to call him.

I know it’s a derail, but that whole “banana is atheist nightmare” video still fucking infuriates me.

That thing in your hand is not JUST a banana, you prick. It’s a Cavendish Banana, which was specifically bred with Mendelian selection to create traits like pretty yellow color when ripe, easy to hold shape, and pleasant, sweet-but-not-too-sweet taste. There are over 700 different species of bananas, many of which share few or even none of these traits. There are species with inedible fruit, with large, oddly shapen, unappetizingly dark skin that are very starchy and for cooking stand in nicely for potatoes. The Banana you have right there is from a species that is less than 100 years old, which was bred because Gros Michel, the previous major breed, started dying from a plague called Panama disease, which Cavendish were resistant to. Big Mike (as the breed translates) were larger, sweeter, and required less cost and effort to ship since they had more resilient skin. And even THAT breed was Mendelian in origin.

The Banana is a human domestication, not god’s gift. Citing it as proof of a divine creator is like declaring that god loves music because how else would the ipod be so perfectly suited to the human hand and accommodating of human musical tastes.

karpad, we went off into Lovecraftian esoterica.  I don’t think much of anything is a derail at this point.  Besides, yours actually sort of addresses the original post.  And hey, I learned something about bananas!  :D

The banana isn’t a nightmare - it is a tasty treat prized by many species of primates!

Karpad is right—the banana is a product of intelligent design. Unlike the Intelligent Design folks and their Designer, though, we have a pretty damn good idea who designed the banana, how they did it, and why. The Intelligent Design folks can’t supply any of that, which is why Intelligent Design is crap.

And I don’t see the problem with the nice library people at Miskatonic. And their helpers. They’re not much worse than some of the librarians I’ve encountered elsewhere at more conventional libraries.

(I have a lot of respect for librarians, but certain members of that profession can be pretty awful.)

The banana isn’t a nightmare

That banana gif is a nightmare though. :D I feel vaguely unclean watching it…

No M.A., eh? Are there actually places offering a Bachelor’s degree in creationism?

I just think “Master’s of Creation” would be a great (if slightly misspelled) title to a lost Black Sabbath album.

It sounds like a bad lost Metallica album to me, but mileage varies.