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Next entry: In defense of nekkid pictures, even of dudes Previous entry: An entertaining Twitter shaming episode, and what it means

Why Else Was Dick In A Box The Top-Selling Gift At Kay’s Jewelers?

FeminismSex

Andrew Klavan has investigated Anthony Weiner, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Dominique Strauss-Kahn, and come to the inevitable conclusion: it's all women's fault.

I blame women.  No, really.  Women — by which I mean each and every single member of the female gender — you know who you are — need look no further than themselves to explain why Weiner-types behave toward them in this fashion.   We men are always hearing complaints from women about how badly we treat them, what pigs we are, how pushy and abrasive…  on and on.  But what these same women conveniently fail to mention is that this stuff really works on them!

[...]

So, then, ladies — what do you expect?  All we guys want is for you to love us.  If this is the sort of guy you follow after in droves, this is the sort of guy we’re encouraged to be. 

Everyone I know has dated assholes.  It's because assholes know how to manipulate people.  Now, I'm pretty sure that DSK raping women doesn't exactly count as women "falling for" something, unless it's the seemingly reasonable belief that they won't be raped.  

When you look at Klavan's other exhibits, though, it's obvious what must happen: the more than three billion women on Earth should start some sort of network wherein unapproved men are shunned, and only middle-aged writers for Pajamas Media are allowed to come into the womanly fold.

Ha, I said "womanly fold".  I'm awesome.

But you all need to understand the eminently reasonable threshold here: all women (like all minorities everywhere) are responsible for the actions of every other woman on the face of the planet, so that if anyone reciprocally flirts with world-famous movie actors or prominent politicians, you're basically boning them as you speak.  Sorry for the late notice, but I figured you'd want to know that you're responsible for adultery and rape by people you've never met and whom you might actually find revolting.  So, uh, stop it.

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Posted by Jesse Taylor on 02:55 PM • (94) Comments

It’s just the Nice GuyTM rant repackaged.

Look, lots of guys have been through a phase where we didn’t understand why many of the women we were interested in guys who weren’t “good for them”. (And sometimes, said guys probably weren’t, but the women were autonomous individuals and had the right to date them anyway.)

And then most of us grew up and realized it’s better to make connections with people who ARE interested in you than to pine for people who aren’t.

Some didn’t, however, and they write pieces like Klavan’s.

Comment #1: Dilan Esper  on  06/06  at  03:34 PM

Well it’s sure a lot easier than examining why men so often behave like overentitled leches.

I think I’ll pin all my personal shortcomings on the Mexicans. I blame you, Mexicans! For my lack of punctuality!

(BTW, I think you got your quote tags wonky)

Comment #2: snobographer  on  06/06  at  03:34 PM

Has it become fashionably retro to blame the MTV-Video-Games, or is that now considered quaint and precious?

Comment #3: Mighty Ponygirl  on  06/06  at  03:47 PM

Anyone see the desperate PUA dude in the comments?  “PUAs know women’s minds better than they do”, “read the Misandry bubble” etc etc.  LOL. He must really need to make a sale.

I couldn’t muster up enough to care about the article to comment on it.  Another flaccid whiny “edgy” dude cowering behind misogyny, trying desperately to draw attention away from the fact that he’s a flaccid whiny dude cowering behind misogyny.

Comment #4: Rare Vos  on  06/06  at  03:49 PM

My resident Nice Guy has frequently stated that women need to “reward” feminist men with sex and companionship.  The thing is, his “feminism” makes me vomit and veers between benevolent misogyny and malevolent misanthropy.

Which just goes to prove that you can’t magically determine who is truly a good person or not, and sometimes it can take weeks, months, or years to find out someone you thought was a great person is actually a piece of shit.  I think I can understand why some women settle for fucking men who are sexy and interesting, even if they’re assholes.

Comment #5: keshmeshi  on  06/06  at  04:05 PM

It’s just the Nice GuyTM rant repackaged.

Exactly.

And just why would a member of the AARP set, married according to wikip, still care about “bad boys” getting all the chicks? Let it go, Andrew. Being a Nice Guy TM, eaten up with envy over somebody else’s appealing to women, is something to conceal, not expose to the world. Bad enough when one is a frustrated adolescent, trying to hit upon the magic combination that gets some woman’s panties to drop; inexcusable for someone with a lifetime of partnership behind him.

Comment #6: Hector B.  on  06/06  at  04:18 PM

That whole article read like a caption script to a “Downfall” parody video.

Comment #7: Yamara  on  06/06  at  04:18 PM

I agree. Chicks who end up with guys like that do it to themselves,and I have no sympathy for them what so ever. Not my fucking problem,and I don’t have to do shit about it. I don’t want to hear any complaining about where all the “good” men have gone when you end up with guys like that. You deal with it and keep me the fuck out of this drama and bullshit. That’s what you should all be saying. And I’m not trying to come off like the type of person described in the first post, I’m not here to tell you what is and what’s good for you,or be all like oh,why doesn’t she go out with such a good guy,etc. No, I’m merely saying not my problem and I don’t give a fuck. Plus,perhaps we shouldn’t be encouraging such things,but hey,look who I’m dealing with.

Comment #8: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/06  at  04:34 PM

Well it’s sure a lot easier than examining why men so often behave like overentitled leches.

I think I’ll pin all my personal shortcomings on the Mexicans. I blame you, Mexicans! For my lack of punctuality!

I think Sarah Silverman originated this joke. It went something like:

“The Passion of the Christ came out and reignited the debate about whether the Jews killed Christ or the Romans did. Personally, I blame the blacks.”

Comment #9: Dilan Esper  on  06/06  at  04:37 PM

can someone translate #8 for me?  I don’t speak Trollese.

Comment #10: Rare Vos  on  06/06  at  04:52 PM

@Yamara I think you’re on to something.  Surely this whole thing is a put-on.  I mean, nobody’s really that stupid, are they?

Comment #11: Gordon  on  06/06  at  04:56 PM

@10

Exact same argument as Klavan except pretending he doesn’t care about it because it doesn’t affect him.

Comment #12: Treefinger  on  06/06  at  04:58 PM

Just think of #8 as a caption script to a “Downfall” parody video.

Comment #13: Yamara  on  06/06  at  04:59 PM

I’ve been the ‘nice guy’ and I’ve been the ‘bad guy.’ It’s all context dependent.

My question is why they don’t switch the script? Why don’t the nice guys seek out ‘nice girls’ who are not the vacuous ‘babes.’

After a while, you learn to avoid manipulative babes or crazy babes or empty babes. Too much trouble.

In the same way, women have to learn not to pine for a ‘hunk’ who’s going to crush them.

That’s the part that’s really bizarre. If you’re a nice guy, don’t get a crush on a crazy stripper.
It’s practice what you preach.


BTW. There was a link on the site to “The Futurist.”

DON’T LOOK AT IT. IT WILL MAKE YOU REALLY MAD. Just a tip.

Comment #14: KingElvis  on  06/06  at  05:04 PM

Stop talking sense, KingElvis. Women don’t have different personalities, they have different hair colors and breast sizes instead. They’re mere ciphers onto which fantasies are projected by actual people. There’s no way that some women can be assholes that have a preference for other assholes that is counterproductive, but still makes way more sense than an ostensibly non-asshole guy’s preference for female assholes. What makes more sense is a tug of war between a passive-aggressive asshole and an aggressive asshole where the former inevitably loses. Go hard or go home, kids.

Comment #15: Selena777  on  06/06  at  05:20 PM

Anyone here used to watch Cheers?  Maybe Andrew should get his head out of his Klavan.

Comment #16: DBK  on  06/06  at  05:22 PM

“Why don’t the nice guys seek out ‘nice girls’...”

They’re not nice guys. They just act like they are as a tactic.


“women have to learn not to pine for a ‘hunk’ who’s going to crush them.”

Women can’t read minds or predict the future. The “hunk” doesn’t promise to crush you on the first date.

Comment #17: snobographer  on  06/06  at  05:27 PM

Just to make it clear: the Nice Guy TM is not a nice guy. He is bitter and resentful that other guys are having sex while he is not. His defining characteristic is his sense of entitlement.

Comment #18: Hector B.  on  06/06  at  05:29 PM

The ultimate irony of all the “Nice Guy” TM rants is that, as Amanda has pointed out numerous times, the answer to all of their woes is MORE FEMINISM!  Guess what?  Empowered, feminist women are much less likely to take a lot of crap from self-entitled assholes, and if you treat women like they’re actually people with opinions, hopes, dreams, faults, and the whole nine yards, they’ll probably be much more receptive to romantic advances.  But all of this disingenuous politeness in the hopes of getting in their pants?  They can see right through that to the rotten core that believes that women are only there for men’s sexual gratification.  So in summary, regard women as people worthy of respect in their own right.  It helps all around.

Comment #19: progrocker  on  06/06  at  05:37 PM

Just to make it clear: the Nice Guy TM is not a nice guy. He is bitter and resentful that other guys are having sex while he is not. His defining characteristic is his sense of entitlement.

I suspect there are degrees of it, from the fully misogynistic types who have major problems with women to the guys who are simply unrealistic and can’t stop themselves from pining for women who aren’t interested in them.

The key personality aspect, however, is the belief that the desired women are with guys who are “bad for them” and that the “Nice Guy” would be so much better. That claim could be true or false in the particular circumstance, but it doesn’t matter, because either way, the woman isn’t interested and the “Nice Guy” needs to find someone who is.

Comment #20: Dilan Esper  on  06/06  at  05:55 PM

Awesome post.  No gurls allowed.

Comment #21: Iam138  on  06/06  at  06:05 PM

The key personality aspect, however, is the belief that the desired women are with guys who are “bad for them” and that the “Nice Guy” would be so much better.

This interpretation, sadly, is from the Nice Guy TM’s point of view. He cannot think objectively on this point because he does not see why he would be less or un-desirable.  The key personality aspect is the NGTM’s sense of entitlement—clearly he is so much more deserving of that woman’s—or any woman’s—attention than the guy she is actually with.

Comment #22: Hector B.  on  06/06  at  06:18 PM

“Why don’t the nice guys seek out ‘nice girls’...”

They’re not nice guys. They just act like they are as a tactic.


“women have to learn not to pine for a ‘hunk’ who’s going to crush them.”

Women can’t read minds or predict the future. The “hunk” doesn’t promise to crush you on the first date.

I was taking the ‘nice guy’ term on literal face value. The learning would come through experience, just as it must for the average guy who only pursues the ‘babe’ type. The harsh taskmaster of experience should temper and teach the nebbishy types of both sexes.

 

Comment #23: KingElvis  on  06/06  at  06:34 PM

This interpretation, sadly, is from the Nice Guy TM’s point of view. He cannot think objectively on this point because he does not see why he would be less or un-desirable.  The key personality aspect is the NGTM’s sense of entitlement—clearly he is so much more deserving of that woman’s—or any woman’s—attention than the guy she is actually with.

Sure. But my point is, it doesn’t really matter whether the particular guy is objectively “nice” or not. It doesn’t matter whether the guy is “nicer” than the guy who the desired woman is dating. It’s a sort of tunnel-vision that doesn’t take into account that the only really important fact is that the woman isn’t interested in him.

I really think this is, for many guys, a phase which they grow out of (like many awkward things that one believes as a teenager). Only some guys don’t grow out of it and become whiners on the internet. Those are the more deep-seated misogynists, as opposed to the guys who haven’t grown up and figured out that if she’s not into you, it doesn’t matter that you are really into her.

Comment #24: Dilan Esper  on  06/06  at  06:35 PM

Women — by which I mean each and every single member of the female gender — you know who you are — need look no further than themselves to explain why Weiner-types behave toward them in this fashion.

And yet, these are the same assholes who accuse feminists of hating “all men” and of blaming “all men” for rape.

Comment #25: AJB  on  06/06  at  07:16 PM

RAT MAN PZ & THE NEW SH*THEADS


debunkingskeptics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1769

WRONG AGAIN

Comment #26: zjudgez  on  06/06  at  07:18 PM

Personal anecdote warning:

The Nice Guys (TM) who make up most of my husband’s gaming group have long been mystified as to why my husband was successful in the hunt for a mate while they were not. After all, he’s egotistical (though fortunately he has a sense of humor about it), can be ruthless, or even sometimes sadistic if he’s got a goal in mind, and is in general not even interested in being a “nice” person.

One day he called me while he was at a game to ask me to look up the answer to a question for him. While I was looking, we chatted the way we invariably do. After he hung up, one of the Nice Guys (TM) said to him (exact quote) “Wow! You talk to her almost as if she’s your equal!”

He was not thereby enlightened. I, however, was very enlightened as to why this bunch of generally pleasant, well-educated sorts are to a man, unsuccessful at dating.

Comment #27: Tapetum  on  06/06  at  07:22 PM

@ #19,yeah well what about when all that shit you mentioned doesn’t work? Or what about when girls do sleep with said guys who only treat women as objects and just to get in there pants and use them for only sexual gratification,they know what’s going on and they like it? Let’s look at WeinerDick-gate for example. So men aren’t the only ones who are guilty of this,so stop blaiming all the man,and accept the fact or responsibility that alot of chicks do this to themselves,and that just proves the article in question as right. It’s not my personal style myself,but hey,you deal with your own shit.

@ #27,so again,you just prove the article right. By your own admisstion,your husband is a ruthless,sadistic,egomaniac,I really don’t care and I don’t mean it as a personal attack. I personally have a zero tolerance policy for that sort of thing,meaning if you try to pull that shit with me,I’ll do it right back or do all I can to stop you. Someone wants to deal with it and let it happen to them? Not my fucking problem. I must say,his group of freinds sound like a mix of saps? schmucks? rue with naievety? You know them better than I,so I’ll leave the choice of wording to you.

Comment #28: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/06  at  08:09 PM

I, however, was very enlightened as to why this bunch of generally pleasant, well-educated sorts are to a man, unsuccessful at dating.

The Social Network, which we finally saw, on DVD, contained the best depiction of an NGTM in the Mark Zuckerberg character—the feelings of the woman who went out with him were absolutely unimportant to him.

Comment #29: Hector B.  on  06/06  at  08:10 PM

.... meanwhile everyone was getting laid but him.  Then, when they became successful, women appeared from nowhere to have sex with them. Hey, maybe the screenplay was written by a Nice Guy TM.

Comment #30: Hector B.  on  06/06  at  08:12 PM

The minute a guy makes a big deal over how ‘nice’ he is, I start losing interest.

Because it’s very telling when someone over-emphasizes something about themselves. In this case, it means they REALLY want you to think of them as nice. That’s their selling point, so to speak. It’s a cover—they aren’t really that nice. It comes in degrees, of course. Some Nice Guys (TM) are going through a phase. Some, though, are woman-hating assholes out to punish every single woman ever because the cheerleader wouldn’t date him in high school. (Just an example, but it usually goes something like that.)

The thing is, to me, being “nice” is not a special feature. IT IS A BASELINE REQUIREMENT. You know, like ‘breathes oxygen, exudes carbon dioxide’ and ‘possess functional vertebrae’ and ‘mental stability’. I *expect* that you will not hit me or yell at me or swear at me.

But I expect more. (I KNOW. THE NERVE. WHAT DO YOU BITCHEZ WANT?!!!)

Gosh, I dunno. Kindness, compassion, respect, love? That’s what *I* want. Oh, and trust.

And no, I will not answer for the actions of all the women who have mistreated you. I will not explain the actions of other women you’ve known. 1) Can *you* explain the random actions of a total stranger? No? Yeah, I didn’t think so, and yes, it’s just as unreasonable an expectation when you expect it of *me*. 2) I don’t give a rat’s ass. I sure as hell don’t feel sorry for you.

Comment #31: Chai_Latte  on  06/06  at  08:37 PM

.... meanwhile everyone was getting laid but him.  Then, when they became successful, women appeared from nowhere to have sex with them. Hey, maybe the screenplay was written by a Nice Guy TM.

Actually, though, here’s the thing. There really are women who are attracted to money and power. It’s not misogynist to say this. We can talk about the reasons for it, and what it means, and whether it is a bad thing, and we can remind people that lots of women AREN’T attracted to those things, but the notion that some women ARE is not any sort of big revelation. (Remember, Henry Kissinger famously said “power is the ultimate aphrodesiac”. And he should know—he wasn’t exactly a conventionally attractive man who would naturally attract the attention of the opposite sex.)

So if a NiceGuyTM fell into a ton money, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this would suddenly result in more sexual opportunities. And indeed, it wouldn’t surprise me if, in his own mind, it reified the misogynistic Nice Guy meme. After all, he’s the same guy, but now that he has money, “all the girls” suddenly like him (even though in reality it isn’t anywhere near “all” the girls).

So while I don’t know Zuckerberg’s actual story particularly well, I could certainly see the plausiblity of the scenario of some geeky NGTM type living through a pissed-off adolescence and early adulthood in which he is convinced that women are unjustly rejecting him in favor of “bad boys” and “Alpha males”, and then getting rich, suddenly attracting more attention from certain kinds of women, and thinking this proves that he was right in his Nice Guy rantings.

It just happens that since 99.999 percent of us aren’t going to start a billion dollar company, it might behoove us to lose the Nice Guy baggage even if you become a billionaire, one of the “benefits” is that you never have to grow up.

Comment #32: Dilan Esper  on  06/06  at  08:41 PM

@#32, You blame the guy who suddenly gets a lil bit or alot of money/success/power for the irresponsibilities of women,why? He’s getting what he wants,and they’re giving it to him. It’s his fault why? Or let’s say said hypothetical guy isn’t the “nice guy” you describe,but youre general run of the mill arrogant,elitist,thinks they’re more superior,condescending douche,with all the money power etc,basically straight up says they’re not “nice”, which is fine by me until it starts to personally affect me,and yes I’ll say it,I have certain,strong misanthropic tendencies,we all do,esp certain feminists,as I’ve seen myself, and yet chicks still go for said douche? Who’s fault is that? Let’s say guy isn’t “hidden nice guy mysogynist”, but straight up honest yeah I’m this type of mysogonist etc? I only ask cause I never here this said,esp in circles or sites such as this. Dismiss me and make fun of me all you want and don’t answer the question ignore and be immature and stick your fingers in your ears and go “LAH!LAH!LAH!LAH!!! I CAN’T HEAR YOU!!!!” all you want,that just shows what sort of person you are and how in the right I am. And why blast Zuckerberg,if anything you said about him is even remotely true,they admitted to manipulating the story for there own means/agenda,what do you care if he’s succesful,“nice guy bitter mysogonist”,and the chicks are still liking him and fucking him? Jealous much? Denial much? Upset that he was right along when you weren’t? Hmm???

Comment #33: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/06  at  09:16 PM

Translation of #8: Even though I’m self-evidently an asshole, since I’ve determined I deserve sex, women should give it to me.  And if they don’t—-a frequent choice!—-then it’s because they’re stupid and has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I’m so repulsive that 90% of people, male or female, write me off of after reading less than 100 words of my gut-spilling on an internet forum.

Comment #34: Amanda Marcotte  on  06/06  at  09:20 PM

It actually isn’t Zuckerberg’s actual story… he had a steady girlfriend throughout the majority of the time the film covers, she met him pre-Facebook explosion, and they’re still together.

Comment #35: Selena777  on  06/06  at  09:20 PM

@#34,tsk,tsk,tsk Marcotte,how wrong you are. Of course,I bet you don’t like being told that do you? I never said I deserve anything,when did I say that? You can insult me and make fun of me all you want,I really don’t care what someone on an internet forum or social network site says,unlike some people,but I ask that you please don’t put words in my mouth and allow me to speak for myself. After all,aren’t your types the one who always preach,or should I say,always bitch about equality this and that? Allright then. Hah! You think I care what some people on an internet forum think? Or you think I’d actually be dumb or crazy enough to say this stuff in public? I bet that gets your panties in a twist doesn’t it?  I’m so repulsive? Really? Funny how you would know that cause we’ve never met before,and I thought it was all about what’s on the inside and not the outside? After all,aren’t you and your ilk the ones always bemoaning stupid fashion adds of all things cause of body image issues with women and such? Know how you deal with that? Be and adult and learn not to give a shit about things like that and not let it affect you. @#35, my point exactly. not that I feel some need to always defend Zuckerberg,could care less what anyone says him,and no,I would not be ok with any sort of anti-semitic jokes or sayings against the guy either,but when they obviously spin the truth or warp the story to there own agenda,the bullshit is obvious. I am surprised there were not lawsuits over it in regards to defamation or misrepresenting of people,etc. Btw, the movie was ass.

Comment #36: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/06  at  09:41 PM

Of course I can’t speak to what is in the mind of total strangers.

But, I’ll come right out and say this, perhaps what the Nice Guys don’t get is that a woman may be inclined to have sex with a supposedly not Mr. Nice Guy because that’s just what they want at the moment.  I know, I know, women aren’t supposed to actually want sex, and we are all slutty sluts if we just decide that we want to get laid on some random night and are without a long term partner/spouse.  I suppose also that all of this slutty badness is compounded in the mind of Nice Guys when that sex is not had with them and that women becomes the stupidest chicks in the world to Mr. Nice Guy if he thinks that guy is a jerk. 

There’s the rub (no pun intended) for the Nice Guys, perhaps if they didn’t act so creepy and so over entitled to female fawning attention because of their “niceness” they might actually get a women’s attention from time to time.  But all of that logic (and gasp, feminism!) is completely lost on Nice Guys, isn’t it?

Comment #37: Lolagirl  on  06/06  at  09:45 PM

@#37, Perhaps that maybe “nice guys” exist because of feminism in the first place? Lot of reasons as to why that is,which I’ll get into later. Here’s the thing too: No matter how much bullshit you want to believe about equality this and that,girls are gonna be judged as being sluts no matter how much you get your undies in a twist. No one cares it upsets you. Shut up and handle your own problems. Don’t expect society/read congress/the system,to always be in your favor. But I’m sure you already know that by now,hence you’re illegitimate complaints. Some of us do believe in tradition,family,etc, and aren’t going to change that cause someone cried over it. Deal with it as you like to say to said “nice guys”.  Or answer me this,what about when said “jerk etc”, acts entitled and all that? Hmm? Oh what you like cause your little pussy gets wet? Ok,well,not my problem. Just don’t come crying to me when you get used and dumped,unless you like that sort of thing,in which you will be judged whether you like it or not.

Comment #38: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/06  at  10:01 PM

Dilan, the point I think here is that women aren’t rewards, they’re people.  And, as people, their sexual choices are theirs to make.  They aren’t objects to be handed out for good behavior.  Which is why it’s funny that Iamright blah blah claims other men “objectify” women, while he argues that women should be doled out on a merit-based system.  He confuses getting laid with getting an A on the test.  I can’t think of something more objectifying than arguing that a woman is a material good that should be awarded based on standards set by men.  Women aren’t currency, you know?

Comment #39: Amanda Marcotte  on  06/06  at  10:11 PM

It actually isn’t Zuckerberg’s actual story… he had a steady girlfriend throughout the majority of the time the film covers, she met him pre-Facebook explosion, and they’re still together.

That’s important information.

As I think about this, and having known some people who worked in Hollywood, I suspect the actual story behind that storyline in “The Social Network” is that it is true of some powerful people in the entertainment industry.

Successful men in Hollywood probably attract even more female sexual attention than other successful people, because in addition to the fact that having money and power can attract women, there is a HUGE amount of casting couch activity in Hollywood. (This is enormously difficult to document, but there have been some good books written about it. It would be a great topic for a good feminist journalist to tackle, however, because there are all sorts of feminist implications for a lot of common behavior in the industry. I suspect that the typical norms and mores of the entertainment industry are one reason you saw so many actresses defending Roman Polanski.)

So it is quite possible that the people BEHIND “The Social Network” completely buy into the Nice Guy narrative because they were whining about it before they became successful and suddenly found they got a ton of attention from women after they hit the big time. So they just put it into the movie even though it had nothing to do with Zuckerberg’s biography.

Comment #40: Dilan Esper  on  06/06  at  10:13 PM

Dilan, the point I think here is that women aren’t rewards, they’re people.  And, as people, their sexual choices are theirs to make.  They aren’t objects to be handed out for good behavior.  Which is why it’s funny that Iamright blah blah claims other men “objectify” women, while he argues that women should be doled out on a merit-based system.  He confuses getting laid with getting an A on the test.  I can’t think of something more objectifying than arguing that a woman is a material good that should be awarded based on standards set by men.  Women aren’t currency, you know?

Of course they aren’t. Look, I completely agree that the NiceGuyTM mindset flounders precisely because it doesn’t give any consideration to the right of women to choose who they want to sleep with.

The point I am making about the Zuckerberg narrative (which turns out to be false as to Zuckerberg anyway), however, is that the way the rest of the male population finds out what you just said is we sit around pining for women who aren’t interested for awhile until we realize that they have the right not be interested in us and we’d better pursue women who ARE interested in us instead. “Nice Guy” is a phase we grow out of. (Some people don’t, and these people become the misogynists who rant about the alleged “problems” with women the rest of their lives.)

But if the NiceGuyTM comes into money, this process may not happen because it happens that the EFFECT of there being women who are attracted to status and money is that if a guy gets rich, suddenly there’s going to be women available to him without him having to change his outlook or modify his behavior. If THAT happens to a guy, he may become completely convinced of the Nice Guy narrative because he was never forced to take the step of adjusting his attitudes towards women.

He’s wrong, but as far as he is concerned, the world has confirmed his prejudices. And then it makes its way into a screenplay.

Comment #41: Dilan Esper  on  06/06  at  10:23 PM

iawayaar - good luck with finding the perfect paragon of a mate. From my perspective the secret is not finding a person without faults, but rather one whose faults you can live with. Is my husband a “nice” person? Not by the usual standards - he’s perfectly charming to people he likes and/or respects, but he’s downright vicious to fools. He thinks very well of himself, but he has reason to, and it doesn’t offend him or prick his pride if people don’t agree with his evaluation. He’s quite driven, and if he sets his sights on a goal, you’d better not get in his way. He’s also loyal to a fault and egalitarian to the point where he finds people who don’t agree to be fools (see above for how he treats fools).

All of which means that he’s quite sweet and considerate to me, a great Dad, and treats both me and our kids as separate human beings with our own right to exist, fully his equals in intellect and sovereignity. I’ll take it over a “nicer person” who considers me his support staff any day. I don’t consider that nice at all.

Comment #42: Tapetum  on  06/06  at  10:26 PM

@#39,no shit women are people. I never said they weren’t. Don’t get it twisted. It’s just if they want to be treated like such,they should act it. Well,I never said women were objects,but they do act it alot of the time. They pine for said dream guy,aspire to be trophy wives,fight each other over it,etc. Not all,but alot do. But women,esp really hot ones,act like and enjoy being treated like currency. If not,then why do alot of them do it? I’m only going by what I see. But they like and seek this approval/validation thing from men.

Comment #43: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/06  at  10:27 PM

@#42, I never talked about finding a person without faults,I have them as we all do,but there is just some shit I won’t put up with as I’m sure you do as well. What those are? Well,that’s for us to determine. I mean,and I mean this hypothetically,not as an attack,please don’t take it as such,if you’re willing to put with someone who is immature,rude,mistreats you,not my problem. Just I’m not dealing with that shit from anyone. Call me too serious. I really don’t care. Downright vicious to fools? How vicious? What sort of fools? And what are the situations? People who don’t agree with his evaluation? Well,what if they didn’t ask for his fucking evaluation in the first place?  So,waitwaitwaitwait,lemme get this straight,anyone who doesn’t agree with him he considers a fool? Ok.Wow. Not even going to get into the problems with that one since it speaks for it’s self. I really don’t like or mean to get into people’s personal buisness,anywhere,online or off,but I can tell: He’s someone I wouldn’t like or get along with,and more than likely,it would be because of something he did. He’s someone I’d have to call him on his shit for and tell him to knock it off. Which I don’t want to hear shit about since that’s something strongly advocated on here very strongly. I actually agree that a person,nice or not,who just treats others as there support staff as you put is bullshit is well,and that’s another thing I would have zero tolerance for. So then overall,you’re admitting to exactly what the guy in the article said. You have every right to do what you want as an adult,just don’t be too surprised when not everyone sees the same as you and calls you out on any perceived bullshit.

Comment #44: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/06  at  10:43 PM

You can’t act like an object. Objects don’t act.

I’d have thought the Nice GuyTM thing had been explained pretty thoroughly by now.

Comment #45: snobographer  on  06/06  at  10:46 PM

And the irony of you judging someone you’ve never met for judging people he knows and deals with personally is deep waters indeed. I’d be just fine with you not liking him. I’m pretty sure I don’t like you.

Comment #46: Tapetum  on  06/06  at  10:46 PM

Can we ban iarayaaw just because I can’t stand his poor punctuation, spacing, random capitalization and grammar?  It’s an eyesore, and reading through his comments aren’t worth it.

Comment #47: Antigone  on  06/06  at  10:50 PM

Well,I’m not here to be liked. If I wanted to do that, I’d just shut my mind off, follow the lead like every other mindless drone on here,and kiss ass. Not me,not my style. Well, I’m not totally judging him, just going with what I heard. Yeah.Ban me. Go ahead. Prove how immature you really are.  And aside from the spacing, my spelling and such is fine. I mean, if you’re going to insult me, try to come up with something a little more original than going after spelling errors. At least put some thought into it.

Comment #48: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/06  at  10:58 PM

Oh and what deep waters would those be? Cause I refuse to take that sort of shit and not buckle down like one of these “fools” you describe?

Comment #49: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/06  at  11:14 PM

Oh,and answer me this: If all this girls don’t like being treated like shit thing isn’t true,it’s half true if you ask me,but for example, why is this girl I was talking with telling me that the guys she seeing ignores her and treats her rudely,and she more or less stays with him out of comfort? Ok then. Thought so. So don’t be surprised when those “nice guys” realize what’s going on and make it work for them. I think I know why feminists seem to have such a problem with/obsess over “nice guys”: they have alot in common.

Comment #50: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/06  at  11:16 PM

@#34,tsk,tsk,tsk Marcotte,how wrong you are.

tl;dr

Comment #51: Hector B.  on  06/06  at  11:21 PM

He was not thereby enlightened. I, however, was very enlightened as to why this bunch of generally pleasant, well-educated sorts are to a man, unsuccessful at dating.

One of the problems that Nice Guys(tm) face, and I speak as one who thankfully grew out of it in my later teens, is that they’re so focused on how they are honestly “better’ than another guy who is getting laid in one or more particular areas, perhaps even objectively so, that they don’t recognize the flaws that others can see in them. Looking back, my particular problem was that while I was generally more mature in behaviour than my peers, quite honestly smarter than a lot of them, and thus didn’t act like a hormone-driven teen all the time, I was blind to the fact I had one monstrous rampaging ego because of that. Yeah, I was smarter and I made damn sure everyone knew it. Had to prove I was the smartest guy in the room all the time.

Once I figured out how I was being a complete jackass to everyone and got my ego under control by learning some humility (due to some humiliating incidents of me unquestionably acting like an idiot)...all of a sudden it seemed girls were willing to talk to me, hang out with me, all the stuff I was pissed off was happening to other people who weren’t me. Oh, the ego was still there, and it did come out to play frequently, but I was at least aware of it (most of the time).

At that point, no doubt there was some other Nice Guy(tm) out there was wondering why the hell their humble selves couldn’t get a date while that egomaniac KeithM, who was completely full of himself (although admittedly not as much as he had been a few years ago), was in a steady relationship.

 

Comment #52: KeithM  on  06/06  at  11:24 PM

I’m so repulsive? Really?

Your writing is, at least. It’s painful to read, haphazard, and reflective of a disorganized, crazed mind.

Comment #53: Tyro  on  06/06  at  11:29 PM

@#52, you don’t think that the guys getting laid all the time suffered from similar if not the same ego problems,and the girls still liked them? Or they were perhaps better at hiding it but were just as arrogant,egomanical,think they’re somehow better than the other guy(s)etc. Jocks for example?  Rich douchey snobs with lots of money,nice cars,shitty clothes and an even shittier attitude,and yet chicks still like them? I’m just pointing out the obvious here that’s all.Or what about when said guys feel they must show off,and everyone just eats it all up?  And for some reason,it’s ok and accepted for them to do it,but no one else? Something smells funny,and it aint youknowwhat. I actually have the same “problem”, I don’t feel I need to be or prove to be the smartest, but I sure as shit ain’t gonna play dumb or get taken for a sucker.

Comment #54: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/06  at  11:39 PM

Or if someone,guy or girl,does think they’re a good catch,why shouldn’t they be bothered by a lack of action so to say?

Comment #55: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/06  at  11:40 PM

Dang.  And here I thought The Screwfly Solution was just fiction.

Comment #56: Blue Jean  on  06/06  at  11:45 PM

True; if you’ve got enough money and/or power, you can get a physically attractive person of either gender to escort you just about anywhere. 

Thing is, 1) there are a lot more men than women with the said money/power;

and 2) There are a lot more straights than gays,

and 3) Heterosexuality is still considered more acceptable than homosexuality.  Thus, the rich guy who shows up with a different woman on his arm every week is considered a lovable scamp; the rich guy who shows up with his male partner every day for years is considered suspect.

Thus, we get the stereotype that “all physically beautiful women want are rich guys”.  There are plenty of physically beautiful men who would jump at the opportunity to be “arm candy” for wealthy patrons (or wealthy matrons), but there just aren’t as many opportunities for them.

Comment #57: Blue Jean  on  06/07  at  12:03 AM

Screwfly Solution eh? Just more feminazi propaganda saying any men who might disagree with you are mysogonyist rapist murderers etc. Real mature. Real mature.

Comment #58: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/07  at  12:03 AM

As for gay or straight, I don’t care either way. Ok sure,maybe I made some disparaging comments that could come off as homophobic,I really don’t mean for it to be,I really don’t hate anyone and could care less gay or straight either way. However,if you allow yourself to be treated like an object/arm candy,don’t complain when you get treated like shit by any and everyone. Actually,if I see rich guy with said different women on each arm every other week,I say he’s a douche,and she’s a clueless bimbo,unless she likes this sort of thing. If I see two gay dudes,I just go,eh,fuckin weird. It’s weird to me,ok. No, I don’t hate the gays,but not everyone is as p.c as you. Oh I disagree,if a gay dude wants to be some rich gay dudes arm candy,it will happen if both parties want it too.

Comment #59: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/07  at  12:07 AM

tl, dr

Comment #60: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  06/07  at  12:55 AM

Funny how it’s always the feminists who think men are horrible people, when it’s generally the conservatives who are saying that rape victims are at fault, because of course the men have no self-control.

Comment #61: Tapetum  on  06/07  at  01:12 AM

The interesting part in this thread is that Iamrightandyouareallwrong still hasn’t conclusively passed the Turing test. Sounds like an Eliza clone left to run rampant reading MRA/PUA sites.

Comment #62: BlackBloc  on  06/07  at  01:15 AM

I wish to invoke the Stick Rule.

Comment #63: mr_subjunctive  on  06/07  at  01:17 AM

A lot of times, the beautiful women that rich guys are seen with are rich girls whose parents bought beauty for them. When it comes to “trophy wives” of the non-nouveau riche - meaning the vast majority of rich people whose lives aren’t highly publicized - a pedigree is usually part of the package, and middle class/working class girls, no matter how beautiful they may be, don’t stand a chance in hell. Extreme hypergamy is uncommon, and American society is way too class conscious for these elite pairings of natural beauty and wealth to occur with regularity anywhere besides the movies and among the people who make those movies.

Comment #64: Selena777  on  06/07  at  01:58 AM

Well, I don’t know about the rest of you ladies, but I’ve seen the error of my ways, and I feel I must apologize on behalf of all the 3 billion women on the planet. So, here goes:

On behalf of all the woman out there who dared to have attractive breasts, hips, legs, etc. and then didn’t share those body parts with you, sorry. Also, on behalf of all those women who didn’t conform to your idea of feminine beauty and then dared to actually walk around in public, so sorry. And on behalf of the lesbians who have the unmitigated gall to have lady parts they don’t share with any men, oops, sorry, our bad. Sorry about the nuns, too. It’s just so rude of them to keep all their lady bits for Jesus. Sorry about women who are gold diggers. Sorry, too, about those women who opt to support themselves with their “careers” and who go around expecting “equal pay” and “respect” and shit. Sorry about all the girls who go around having boobs before they’re of legal age. Sorry about the woman who insist on continuing to exist after they’ve passed the age you consider the maximum for fuckability.

All of us are really truly sorry that all you Nice Guys (TM) are out there.

Comment #65: Phoebe Fay  on  06/07  at  02:08 AM

@#62,when and where did I say anything at all about mra or pua anything? Hmm? You can make fun of me all you want,but don’t assume anything or put words in my mouth. I know pua is a scam in many ways,but I also know feminists hate it cause it goes against everything they don’t like or want to see,i.e guys succeeding with ways they don’t necessarily approve of. As if anyone asked them. While some mra types are crazy,they have there points. Oh but does saying that now get me labled mra,sexist pyscho etc? Well,wouldn’t surprise me. Look where I am.

Comment #66: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/07  at  02:10 AM

Paragraphs, people, paragraphs.  Some of us have midde-aged eyes.

Comment #67: Captain Bathrobe  on  06/07  at  02:13 AM

When women do avoid “nice guys”—perhaps those who are genuinely “nice”, in a terms of how conventional folk view “niceness”—it is because we don’t want a namby-pamby moralist, somebody who is too afraid to take risks, or someone who views everything in terms of neat little categories.  Those attitudes are, after all, not very sexual.  Frankly, the least sexual attitude I can imagine is one that posits, “Men are like this and women are like that and you have to comply with the rigid strictures of your gender determinants whilst I comply with mine.”  That point of view is quintessentially anti-sexual, because sexuality is about destroying the boundaries, about merging, risk-taking and the ability to discover oneself in the other.

Comment #68: scratchy888  on  06/07  at  03:26 AM

Comment #68 highlights the blatant hypocrisy of those on this site and other similar ones. Esp this part,“destroying the boundaries,about merging,risk-taking,and the ability to discover oneself in the other”

Comment #69: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/07  at  03:33 AM

This is particularly odious and disheartening because Andrew Klavan’s dad was an awesome guy.  Maybe AK is rebelling.

Comment #70: Theresa  on  06/07  at  03:39 AM

Jesus, why does Klavan expect women to be his personal mirror? Form your personality by yourself, asshole.

Comment #71: Princess Rot  on  06/07  at  06:47 AM

@71 - I think that would be too much work for him. Forming a personality for yourself requires honest self-examination - can’t have that.

Comment #72: Tapetum  on  06/07  at  08:23 AM

Blackbloc @ 62:

Yeah, I’m leaning towards thinking “Iamright” is a bot, as well; #69 is just a quotation from the previous comment plus some random gibberish.

@ 50:

If all this girls don’t like being treated like shit thing isn’t true,it’s half true if you ask me,but for example, why is this girl I was talking with telling me that the guys she seeing ignores her and treats her rudely,and she more or less stays with him out of comfort?

Of course, yes: this one girl you know is in a bad relationship, so therefore that’s what all girls want. We really *are* that interchangeable! Clue: if you can’t distinguish one woman from another, that might just be a reason why you don’t have much success with them.

Comment #73: Nic_C  on  06/07  at  08:31 AM

So some women (not all) go for the bad boy types that treat them like crap…they take it and come back for more.  Meh.  And some guys (not all) go for the damsel in distress, gravitating towards the fucked up girl or the high maintenance bitch who they can be the hero to…and they take shit over and over and come back for more.  People of either gender or any sexual orientation are variable and often weird.  smile  Fortunately, we as humas have developed powers of observation and the ability to communicate, so we can filter out what bugs us.  It’s almost like a self-correcting mechanism…I don’t like like to treat people badly nor be treated badly, so I rarely find myself spending much time with people who do (and if I do, I get the hell away).  That goes for ANY sort of human interaction, whether it’s family, friends, co-workers, or people on the street.  No one is forcing anyone to be miserable, and anyone who oversimplifies the complexities of human culture and society as “all _____ do this” is just being obtuse and-or stupid.

Comment #74: Kaija  on  06/07  at  08:46 AM

I like to think a lot of these Nice Guys (TM) who complain about all the assholes getting the nice girls only think the guys are assholes because those guys see through the Nice Guy (TM) act. If somebody is only pretending to be nice because he’s hoping to get into my significant others’ pants, I don’t feel under any particular obligation to be nice to him. If he’s doing that crap to any of my friends, again, I don’t feel like I’m under any obligation to be nice to him.

Being (I hope) a genuinely nice guy, I am usually not rude to people. In fact, never, if I can help it. But some of the stuff that I don’t intend to be rude probably could be construed that way by a Nice Guy (TM).

As for the guy with the impossibly long screen name, what a douchebag. Can we please stop making this thread all about him?

Comment #75: Matthew, Patron Saint of Affogato  on  06/07  at  08:57 AM

@#28 she said the guy can be a ruthless egomaniac, but the point is he directs that energy at his job or whatever, and treats her as an equal, whereas the others might be more passive in daily interaction but consider women their inferiors. There’s a big difference, you can be attracted to confidence in someone and not be putting up with being treated like shit, if he doesn’t direct that ruthless sadism at you. Strauss-Kahn, Schwarzenegger, etc. are assholes as partners because they abused and assaulted women, not because they are aggressive go-getters in other areas of life (though some of them qualify as the assholish in those, too). You can be a nice guy who wouldn’t hurt a fly, but hates women; you can be an arrogant braggart who treats women as equals. You can see which one most women would be more inclined towards.

Personally I prefer gentle, quiet nerds anyway, but I’m still going to reject them if they act like I’m an alien from a primitive planet in our interactions.

Also, you are supposed to put a space after punctuation, you know. Basic English grammar. It would make your rants far more reasonable. I am right and you are wrong, and all that.

Comment #76: Treefinger  on  06/07  at  09:18 AM

By “nice guy who wouldn’t hurt a fly, but hates women” I mean an OTHERWISE nice guy (He recycles! He donates to charities! He reads to children at the orphanage! He’s the quiet type!), or someone who thinks pulling up a chair for a woman and paying the bill makes him nice. Obviously, misogyny disqualifies you from niceness.

Comment #77: Treefinger  on  06/07  at  09:21 AM

And by reasonable, I meant “readable”. Damn typos.

Comment #78: Treefinger  on  06/07  at  09:23 AM

@76 Bing, bing, bing! Thank you Treefinger!

People tend to either love or hate my husband. Generally this breaks down by which side of the idiot divide he decides they’re on. Since this results in all the idiots staying far, far away from him, we’ve both decided we can live with this.

I’m actually quite fond of gentle, quiet nerds. But the only ones who seemed to have any interest in me were also misogynistic, and I’m not so fond of that.

Comment #79: Tapetum  on  06/07  at  09:44 AM

@#28 she said the guy can be a ruthless egomaniac, but the point is he directs that energy at his job or whatever, and treats her as an equal,

In general, and accounting for the possibility that Tapetum is serving as an unreliable narrator with regard to her husband’s nature, I find that people who are egotistical assholes to others will eventually be egotistical assholes to you. It’s just the nature of it.

But part of growing up involves the dual realization of a) people are in relationships that work for them and b) you don’t want to be in a relationship with someone who wants different things than you do.

Comment #80: Tyro  on  06/07  at  10:01 AM

#67: Are you sure that’s a bad thing?  I’m young and I can’t be arsed to wade through that anti-whitespace mess.  Which means I’m saved from reading any of that drivel.  Yay, my brain is saved by my laziness!

Comment #81: Jayn Newell  on  06/07  at  10:09 AM

I read this thread until I went to bed last night, and I’m being bad by posting before I catch up. But for the resident trolls and all the trademarked Nice Guys out there, look at it this way.

Sometimes, just like you, women want to get laid. No strings, no fuss, no muss, no bother. Not only are we not looking for a relationship, we actively DO NOT WANT one. When that’s the case, it makes great sense to choose a partner who is a “bad boy” because they’re more likely to leave us the hell alone *after* the sex in question. No awkward phone calls, no needing to “let him down gently.” We both know what we’re there for, and we each get exactly what we came for.

Pretty simple really, once you’re a grown up. (Oh, and slut shaming me isn’t likely to work, I’m probably old enough to be your mother, Troll. Yes, we older women don’t dry up and blow away once we hit 50. Shock, I know.)

Comment #82: Broce  on  06/07  at  10:10 AM

Re: Iamrightandyouareallwrong

Please continue using your odd punctuation and squished-together words. It makes it so much easier to quickly identify your drivel and pass it by.

Scrollin’, scrollin’, scrollin’, keep those mousies scrollin’...

Comment #83: SallyStrange  on  06/07  at  10:14 AM

“Or if someone,guy or girl,does think they’re a good catch,why shouldn’t they be bothered by a lack of action so to say?”

Because human beings are not vending machines. You cannot insert Character Trait X, Physical Characteristic Y, etc., pull the handle and have sex pop out There is no formula, which is what Nice Guys TM miss out on. They spend too much time trying to fit whatever mold they’ve decided women “should” like, (as though women were a monolithic whole all wanting the same thing) and being shocked & disappointed when their formula does not get them sex.

Might be interesting for them to stop trying a formula, recognize that women are separate individuals, and try being *themselves* for a change. Of course, it might also be nice if they’d stop thinking their receding hairlines and beer guts meant they should date beauty queens, but that’s another story.

Comment #84: Broce  on  06/07  at  10:20 AM

The Nice Guys (TM) who make up most of my husband’s gaming group have long been mystified as to why my husband was successful in the hunt for a mate while they were not. After all, he’s egotistical (though fortunately he has a sense of humor about it), can be ruthless, or even sometimes sadistic if he’s got a goal in mind, and is in general not even interested in being a “nice” person.
One day he called me while he was at a game to ask me to look up the answer to a question for him. While I was looking, we chatted the way we invariably do. After he hung up, one of the Nice Guys (TM) said to him (exact quote) “Wow! You talk to her almost as if she’s your equal!”

Keeping in mind your description of your husband, it could well be that his gaming friends meant that statement in surprise as if to sarcastically observe, “because you always treat us like total shit!” You also have to consider this story with the consideration that, given his personality, he’s portraying his gaming friends’ reaction as worse than it was to make him look better.

But people are complicated: sometimes you really can be an asshole to your friends (most of the time) but have respect for your partner (most of the time).

Comment #85: Tyro  on  06/07  at  10:41 AM

In some cases, I don’t think the problem is why girls go for assholes instead of nice guys like you. The problem is, all these other assholes are getting laid, and why can’t you, as a fellow asshole, get some action too? I mean girls like being treated like shit, right? You could treat them like shit like no one’s business. Why isn’t assholery working for you when it’s a proven aphrodisiac? It’s refreshing in its honesty, I think.

Comment #86: junk science  on  06/07  at  11:04 AM

Might be interesting for them to stop trying a formula, recognize that women are separate individuals, and try being *themselves* for a change.

I don’t think that’s a good idea. It seems like the only thing that keeps them from getting punched in the teeth on a regular basis is their wise decision to conceal their true personalities when they don’t have anonymity to hide behind.

Comment #87: junk science  on  06/07  at  11:35 AM

Oh, Nic_c!  In most situations, one real world account would be labelled “anecdata” and easily dismissed. 

HOWEVER; this is a female we’re discussing, so therefore she is representative of and must account for all women—or at least half by stick troll’s reckoning.

And if the world isn’t fair, well we should really just grow up and take it.  Shutting up is the most important part of this version of growing up.

Comment #88: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  06/07  at  11:47 AM

And if the world isn’t fair, well we should really just grow up and take it.  Shutting up is the most important part of this version of growing up.

Unless you’re a sexually frustrated dude, in which case growing up and shutting up is the absolute last thing you should do. In fact, you should be as relentlessly annoying as possible to people you know will never have the slightest respect for you, so you can validate your belief that no interesting person wants anything to do with you, and the world will continue to make sense.

Comment #89: junk science  on  06/07  at  12:10 PM

As it happens “I” wouldn’t describe my husband as an egomaniacal asshole. Huge ego, and capable of being an asshole at time, certainly. He would agree with my description (in fact, he does and would like me to add “Of course I think I’m the center of the universe. Doesn’t everybody? But my universe is better.”)

There are certainly no lack of people in the world, though, who would describe him that way. And have.

Also, having met his gaming friends and heard their tales of dates gone bad, I suspect he was quoting verbatim, or close to it. They’re pleasant enough in casual social contact, but I suspect they treat me with respect because their DM is likely to have the local dragon eat them if he’s pissed at them.

Comment #90: Tapetum  on  06/07  at  01:02 PM

Great Post!

............Many initial concerns in first reading the article which I had to re-read to gain your position, was WTF!!!!????  HA!

As a FemDomme, I agree we need such a system… So, anyone want to help me organize it:)

Thank you for the post.

Mistress C
The Femdom Warrior Goddess
Creator of the Whip It- FWG.. Femdom Wrestling & Grappling

Comment #91: FemDomWarriorGoddess  on  06/07  at  01:54 PM

...allowed to come into the womanly fold.

I saw what you did there, almost choked even.  You really didn’t have to point it out as we pretty much all would have seen it.  You really have a high enough quality of reader/commenter….
oh, fuck it.  It was funny.

Comment #92: helen w. h.  on  06/07  at  04:45 PM

@#90, I already know I would not like or get along with your husband. I know you don’t care,nor do I expect you too,and I don’t care myself. I have a zero tolerance policy for that shit, and if I need to get nasty with people like that,then so be it. Also,by basically saying that you’re husband has a huge ego and can be an asshole and you don’t mind,basically proves what I’ve been saying all along that women do like being treated like shit from time to time,or all the time,and you don’t want to take responsibility. It’s not my problem and I don’t care either way,just I’m glad you proved right what I’ve been saying along. Also,treating women like shit is not my style,just if you let it happen to you and happen to like it,not my fucking problem,either blow me or get the fuck out. So,as by your and many other examples on here,feminism of all things is a fucking joke,and not to be taken seriously by anyone,cept for those who desperately need it.

Comment #93: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/08  at  01:02 AM

@#73 ,and #88, it might be one example,but it seems happen alot more than you seem to want to realize or accept. I’m only in it to see what and if I can get what I want out of it,and not some white knight shit. I bet something like that happening really makes you upset doesn’t it? How can this non-feminist dare do something like that?!?! Fuck you.

and #88,eh,I don’t even need to say anything to you.

#84 as well. you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Comment #94: Iamrightandyouareallwrong  on  06/08  at  01:05 AM

Actually the fact that you think that I as an individual prove anything whatsoever about women at large or feminism is a pretty big joke right there. Haven’t you ever heard “the plural of anecdote is not data”? Learn it. Live by it.

Nor have I ever said that my husband is an asshole to me - he doesn’t think I’m an idiot, or he wouldn’t have married me.

Comment #95: Tapetum  on  06/08  at  07:14 PM
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