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Next entry: The Next Two Months, McCain-Palin Style Previous entry: McCain’s pick: pretty clever

Why hardcore misogynists will vote for a woman

Because it’s easy to tell yourself, “McCain had to pick a woman to get the women’s vote.  They’re that dumb, those women.”  Having rationalized voting for a woman by showing that it’s proof that women are dumb, it’s easy enough to vote for McCain/Palin. 

I won’t paint a pretty picture on this—-female misogynists are crucial to the anti-feminist cause.  Anti-feminism would be nothing without female misogynists, or at least colluders.  (Hat tip to Renee for the term.)  Women who oppose equality for women come in two major stripes—-the ones who accept inferiority and those who think other women are inferior, but they’re the exception.  If you’re the latter, by the way, you get to be in the IWF but if you’re the former, you’re more in the CWA.  Women who accept their inferiority buy into the myth of chivalry.  Like K-Lo, they assume that their reward for letting their brains atrophy and denying their own rights will be that Prince Charming will swoop in and save the day.  Well, some don’t like men very much, but believe that you absolutely need to be on the good side of men to get by in this world, and find it inconceivable that one could be feminist and still get along with men.  I’d put Kathleen Parker in this category.  She drips with contempt for men, thinks they’re all ready to rape a woman given the opportunity, but still thinks women need to shut up and kiss ass to survive. 


And then you have the exceptionalists, the Ann Coulters of the world.  They really do believe women are inferior, but think that they’re the exception to the rule.  And they get away with being honorary men, because anti-feminist men need them to sell the anti-feminist cause.  Being an exceptionalist anti-feminist woman is not a bad gig—-you get paid well to parrot low opinions of women, and you get to feel superior to half the human race.  Most exceptionalist anti-feminists tend to stick more to general conservatism, however. The anti-choice movement wasn’t very keen on them, because the philosophy of anti-choicers is that every woman, without exception, should make child-bearing her main occupation, without brainy or leadership-oriented things distracting her from being a womb on wheels.  If you start allowing that some women are exceptions to the “all women are inferior” rule, then you have to allow that exceptional women should have access to birth control and abortion to be exceptional.  Look at childless Ann Coulter—-you can’t tell me that she is unaware of how not to have a baby. 

But grudgingly, anti-choicers are beginning to realize that it’s really hard to conceal how blatantly misogynist your mission is if all the leadership is male, and women are only there to beef up the ranks at protests and provide eye candy to male protesters.  So now, a few organizations, like Abstinence Clearinghouse, are employing female leadership.  I have no doubt that this is less than ideal for conservative men, but it’s a practical trade-off—-let a few bitches think they’re special in order to keep the rest of them down. 

The Palin pick is this strategy personified.  She’s the woman that gets to be at the top, and the rest of us will see our rights swirl down the toilet.  Fan-fucking-tastic.

Also, I’ll add that I don’t see her getting rejected for being a “secret” feminist like Harriet Miers was.  I don’t think conservative men will like Palin, but they’ll accept that her 5 children might mean that she’s one of those true believers who tries to get pregnant every time they have sex.  Miers, no way.  You know she’s like Coulter, all about the sex with no babies. (It’s worth remembering that a lot of anti-choice men don’t think women would really choose marriage and babies if they realistically had other options.)

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 03:24 PM • (155) Comments

What you said.

I know that McCain isn’t trying to get my vote. I am not his audience, but this is exactly what I find condescending about the whole thing.

And they will try to make it sound like they are making history, but using someone vaguely “like me” to help do things that only oppress me is more appalling than just trying to oppress me in teh first place.

Comment #1: Daisy  on  08/29  at  03:55 PM

Whadda ya want to be she’s got Ayn Rand’s collected works on her bedside table up there in Alaska too?

Comment #2: Danica Lefse Queen  on  08/29  at  03:56 PM

I dunno about the whole governor of Alaska business.  I’ve always considered Alaska rather the way Australia during the 1800s was considered.  It’s where the convicts and people who couldn’t earn an honest living in “conventional” society ran off to so they could avoid bounty hunters.

A cultural gulag, if you will. 

Being Queen of the Gulag just doesn’t strike me as terribly impressive on a resume.

Comment #3: Mezosub  on  08/29  at  04:02 PM

Don’t forget Ms. Phyllis Shoofly.


Palin strikes me as a female Dan Quayle.  Considering McCain’s complete lack of charisma and admitted lack of knowledge about anything other than warfare, it’s hard to see how the pick helps him.

Comment #4: keshmeshi  on  08/29  at  04:05 PM

Nail effectively hit on head. Good one, Amanda!

Comment #5: Mark  on  08/29  at  04:09 PM

To begin with, it minimized the effect that Obama’s brilliant speech would have on the nation, making sure it didn’t get replayed on the news the next day.

Comment #6: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/29  at  04:09 PM

Fun fact:

More Americans watched Obama’s speech than the Opening Ceremonies of the Olympics, or any other Olympics event.

Comment #7: Ben D.  on  08/29  at  04:10 PM

Because it’s easy to tell yourself, “McCain had to pick a woman to get the women’s vote.  They’re that dumb, those women.” Having rationalized voting for a woman by showing that it’s proof that women are dumb, it’s easy enough to vote for McCain/Palin.

That only works so far.  McCain isn’t exactly in the Springtime of his youth, and there’s a very real possibility he’ll just go belly up before the end of his first term.  That leaves a woman - who isn’t named Nancy Pelosi, so there’s that at least - in direct line of succession to the US Presidency.

What’s more, McCain isn’t exactly an inspiring figure.  Let’s face it, he was elected as the “None of the Above” choice for GOP Nominee.  Palin doesn’t fill that inspiration gap, except with a handful of diehard right wing feminists and anti-choice activists.

She can be rationalized away - hell, anything can be rationalized away… I bet the GOP could get the KKK to vote for a Colin Powell / Condi Rice ticket if they really felt the need - without hurting themselves, but that doesn’t mean they can inspire people to open their wallets and line up as volunteers.  Palin is just another bitter pill for tens of thousands of misogynistic assholes to swallow.  If you can get them to show up, they’ll still pull the right lever.  But why get off the couch when McCain / Palin is all the GOP has to offer?

Comment #8: Zifnab25  on  08/29  at  04:13 PM

So now, a few organizations, like Abstinence Clearinghouse, are employing female leadership.

And should the Gilead ever become a reality these colluders will have the pleasure of being forced to assume the role of *Serena Joy (*well, minus the sterility part for most of them).

“Yeah, thanks for helping us Menfolk put those uppity bitchez in their place by leading all of those anti-feminist and anti-abortion-and-contraception groups, and doing most of the p.r. and grassroots work. Not get your fucking asses to the hearth and keep your wombs heavy with your husbands’ man-gravy!”

Comment #9: Pseudo-Adrienne  on  08/29  at  04:14 PM

I can’t get over the fact that she and McCain have only met once prior to last night.  Qualifications aside, it’s important for running mates to have an ostensible relationship, get along, and to be on message.  Palin strongly supported Romney in the primary, and was slow to endorse McCain.  McCain seemed extremely uncomfortable during her speech, and they appear very unnatural together.  Like strangers.

If McCain’s whole plan was to pander to women, there were other misogynist women in the Republican party for him to choose from that would have been less of a gamble than Palin.  Kay Bailey Hutchinson is not pleased.

Comment #10: Jen  on  08/29  at  04:16 PM

Apparently Palin’s a member of Feminists for Life and a former beauty pageantess.

She’s only 44.  I’d wonder what she’s using for birth control, but of course she’s using the natural method, or abstaining, right?

Comment #11: deep6  on  08/29  at  04:21 PM

To begin with, it minimized the effect that Obama’s brilliant speech would have on the nation, making sure it didn’t get replayed on the news the next day.

True, but that was always going to happen.  What choice did McCain have?  Assuming Gustav doesn’t blow it out to sea, the RNC starts Monday. 

On the plus side, 38 million people saw that speech last night - which doesn’t even count PBS or C-Span.  More than the Academy Awards, the opening ceremony of the Olympics, or the finale of American Idol.  If it was that brilliant (I was, unfortunately, not one of those who saw it), then this is no more than a bit of a buzzkill.

We political junkies got a bit blindsided, and we’re analyzing every possible way it could go right or wrong.  But the low-info voter probably isn’t watching a press conference on CNN in the middle of the working day, and isn’t too excited about McCain choosing some total unknown as his running mate anyway.

Comment #12: Seraph  on  08/29  at  04:23 PM

Oh, deep, I think anti-choicers will easily convince themselves Palin only has sex on her anniversary after consuming too much wine and letting passion run away with her.

Comment #13: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/29  at  04:25 PM

I don’t actually find Palin to be un-charming.  She’s more dynamic on stage and in interviews than Kathleen Sebelius, who I’d been hoping Obama would choose as his running mate.  Palin’s folksiness will definitely appeal to low-info voters, and I’m less optimistic about November than I was last night.

But Alaska politics is a different animal from U.S. politics, and executive experience in Alaska (especially for 1.5 years) does not translate to the national stage.  The issues in Alaska are very idiosyncratic and extremely local.  There is no other state like it.  And its population is approximately the same size as that of Fort Worth, Texas (excluding Forth Worth’s metropolitan area). 

Also, in a Newsweek interview in March, she said she didn’t like when Hillary Clinton “whined” about sexism in the campaign.

Comment #14: Jen  on  08/29  at  04:26 PM

Oh, Jen, that’s really interesting. Do you have a link?

Comment #15: annejumps  on  08/29  at  04:29 PM

That will help her appeal, Jen.  Again, the base needs to be assured that she hates women as much as they do.  That’s what fucked Miers—-she never made that case.

Comment #16: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/29  at  04:32 PM

I believe this is the interview to which Jen is referring:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/156190

It’s in video form, which might make for some fun fair-use soundbites if the GOP tries to pull some puma-stye bogus victimology.

Comment #17: Gracchus  on  08/29  at  04:35 PM

Yeah, but, generally don’t they prefer their token women leaders to be older, to be done with their womb duties and not have to attend to the needs of one of the babies. It seems to me, there’s bound to be a little tsk-tsking behind the scenes from the Daddy Dobson crowd about maintaining a campaign schedule with a special needs baby.

Comment #18: Phoebe Fay  on  08/29  at  04:36 PM

I think you are right and that this pick will not really phase the misogynists. Another aspect is that republicans have show themselves to be entirely comfortable with voting for an inexperienced lightweight. Remember how the country was assured that his inexperience was ok because Bush would be surrounded by wise men like Cheney. Maybe this pick signals to the base that Cheney and his minions will still be in charge.

Comment #19: Walkingg  on  08/29  at  04:37 PM

Wow, I love watching the nuttiness here. Amanda, is that just more of your own personal “I hate successful women” schtick? Because this post certainly seems chockful of envy.

Palin gives the GOP a strong pro-life V.P., which reassures and reenergizes the base. Those are important points for bringing out the vote. She’s also got as much of a track record as your standard bearer, but she’s not POTUS. Not on the job training, like Biden said Obama would need. And, unlike Joe Biden, she doesn’t have a history of plagiarism, lying, and sticking her foot in her mouth. So, yeah, she’s a much better choice than Obama made. Plus, there are Hillary voters who will like her.

Comment #20: Sharon  on  08/29  at  04:39 PM

Phoebe, she’s 44.  According to all the wingnut writings out there, you go through menopause at 27, which is why you need to marry young.

Comment #21: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/29  at  04:42 PM

I don’t hate successful women, you moron.  God, could you be more stupid?  Not if you scooped your brain out with an ice cream scoop. 

I hate women who play patsy for the patriarchy.  Like you and like Palin.  I hate your guts, and you’re a failure and a moron, to boot.  So the consistent thread is hating women who hate women.

Comment #22: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/29  at  04:43 PM

“Maybe this pick signals to the base that Cheney and his minions will still be in charge.”

I have a theory that the Reichwing has perfected Terminator-like technology for mimicking people.  Have we ever seen Cheney and Palin in the same room at the same time, especially recently?...

Comment #23: MikeEss  on  08/29  at  04:44 PM

“Palin strikes me as a female Dan Quayle.  Considering McCain’s complete lack of charisma and admitted lack of knowledge about anything other than warfare, it’s hard to see how the pick helps him. “

With the McCain lacking charisma thing, the ticket strikes me more as the Republican equivalent of Mondale/Ferraro.  Let’s hope the ticket will win a similar number of electoral votes (unlikely, I know, but as long as it doesn’t make it to 270…)

Comment #24: calvinhobbes  on  08/29  at  04:47 PM

Sharon coughs up, “She’s also got as much of a track record as your standard bearer”

In what sense?  Oh she’s been in more beauty pageants.

Then Sharon leaves this steaming pile behind, “And, unlike Joe Biden, she doesn’t have a history”

Of course, standing up for ted stevens and trying to throw your brother in law off the state troopers won’t help,will it?

Finally, the puma piece de resitance, “So, yeah, she’s a much better choice than Obama made. Plus, there are Hillary voters who will like her.”

Oh yeah because Hillary voters want an evangelical, anti-choice woman to vote for.

Keep talking to yourself Sharon.  It will only sound better and better.

Comment #25: ice weasel  on  08/29  at  04:48 PM

I wonder, if McCain loses will they point to Palin and say “See, the public is just not ready for a woman to be in the Executive, she failed to inspire conservatives to go to the polls.”  Then use it as an excuse not to give more women opportunities for leadership in the party.

The anti-choice crowd will also love her—her fifth child has special needs (possibly Down’s Syndrome?) and she knew it during the pregnancy. They can hold her up as an example of seeing a pregnancy through no matter what the circumstances.

Comment #26: history_mom  on  08/29  at  04:48 PM

And, unlike Joe Biden, she doesn’t have a history of plagiarism, lying, and sticking her foot in her mouth.

Just having people fired for not firing who she tells them to fire.

Comment #27: Seraph  on  08/29  at  04:49 PM

She’s also got as much of a track record as your standard bearer, but she’s not POTUS.

As I’ve said elsewhere, representing 670,000 people in a homogeneous state is not the same as representing 12,000,000.

Palin has zero experience in national politics and less overall political experience than Obama.  (Why do people always “forget” he was in the Illinois state senate?)  And yet you want someone who 18 months ago was the mayor of a town of 9,000 people to run the domestic and foreign policy of a nation of 300 million?

Wow, you are desperate to control the wombs of strangers, aren’t you?

Comment #28: Mnemosyne  on  08/29  at  04:50 PM

I don’t hate successful women, you moron.  God, could you be more stupid?  Not if you scooped your brain out with an ice cream scoop. 

I hate women who play patsy for the patriarchy.  Like you and like Palin.  I hate your guts, and you’re a failure and a moron, to boot.  So the consistent thread is hating women who hate women.

LOL. I love the way you chose to sugarcoat it.

Comment #29: LanceThruster  on  08/29  at  04:54 PM

Sharon, don’t you think those PUMAs will be insulted to realize that McCain et al think that ANY woman will suffice?  To the extent that PUMAs exist, they weren’t only voting for Clinton because she was female but because she represented their concerns as feminists in a way the male candidates did not.  That the Republicans don’t get this and think all they need to do to capture the female vote is to nominate a female VP, only proves how institutionalized sexism is within the party.

But, of course, since you hate women you cannot possibly understand that perceiving women as a monolithic group who will vote for someone for no other reason than that they possess a vagina is an insult.

Comment #30: history_mom  on  08/29  at  04:55 PM

She is the living embodiment of the pro-life movement in sharp contrast to Obama, who couldn’t find it in his heart to pass a law to save the life of a born-alive abortion victim, an issue brought to the fore by nurse (and blogger) Jill Stanek, who found a Down syndrome baby in the dirty laundry room of the hospital where he had been left to die. Maybe 80% of Down syndrome babies are aborted.

Sarah Palin didn’t hesitate for a moment to accept hers, and upon his birth announced, “He’s perfect.”

This is driving the radical feminists nuts.

Comment #31: BobK  on  08/29  at  04:58 PM

Crap, I should’ve read the other thread before commenting on this one.  The trolls are saying exactly what I thought they would.

Comment #33: history_mom  on  08/29  at  05:03 PM

Sarah Palin didn’t hesitate for a moment to accept hers, and upon his birth announced, “He’s perfect.”

So nice that she had the financial wherewithal, childcare, medical coverage, and family and household support to make it so.  If all women had all that supportive stuff in place, there might be fewer abortions.

Comment #34: Ms Kate  on  08/29  at  05:04 PM

“She is the living embodiment of the pro-life movement…”

...so why, BobK, isn’t she quietly at home raising her children and making sure her husband has a fresh-cooked meal on the table when he comes home to his immaculately clean house from his stressful job as sole provider and head of his family? 

Or is it okay when Republican women live full lives despite being handicapped with the wrong genitals (thanks to feminist pioneers), but it’s not okay for Democrats?...

Comment #35: MikeEss  on  08/29  at  05:04 PM

Deep6 wrote:

She’s only 44.  I’d wonder what she’s using for birth control, but of course she’s using the natural method, or abstaining, right?

She has five children, including having given birth fairly recently.  She really might not be using contraception.

Comment #36: Dana  on  08/29  at  05:04 PM

Colluders are dangerous women. Just like every other social movement patrarichy cannot succeed without a support staff and of course women fulfill those roles. Palin is a colluder of epic proportions. Imagine if these colluders and stepford wives were to dedicate themselves to womens issues, how much further would we be today?

Comment #37: Renee  on  08/29  at  05:06 PM

Amanda wrote:

To begin with, it minimized the effect that Obama’s brilliant speech would have on the nation, making sure it didn’t get replayed on the news the next day.

Pretty smart, eh?  smile

Comment #38: Dana  on  08/29  at  05:06 PM

“Pretty smart, eh?”

...and so unexpected too.  Yawn…

Comment #39: MikeEss  on  08/29  at  05:08 PM

She has five children, including having given birth fairly recently.  She really might not be using contraception.

File under: none of my goddamn business.

So long as my contraceptive choices are filed under none of Her or the Governments business ...

Comment #40: Ms Kate  on  08/29  at  05:10 PM

“Sarah Palin didn’t hesitate for a moment to accept hers, and upon his birth announced, “He’s perfect.” “

Uh, if she didn’t hesitate for a second, why the hell did she have the amniocentesis in the first place, risking miscarriage, infection, all to find out if her kid had one of 3 common but survivable disabilities. From my understanding, amnios are done to see if there are conditions such as Downs Syndrome so you can abort. She considered it enough to get a gigantic needle shoved through her stomach.

And, on top of it, an amniocentesis could soon be considered an abortion! What with “any other action” that causes the demise of a pregnancy=abortion.

Comment #41: Ashley  on  08/29  at  05:17 PM

BobK,

Since you’re such an uncompromising adherent of the Bible, what are your thoughts on Timothy 2:12 ...

I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

... in light of the fact that McCain’s advanced age and health issues give a Palin a significant chance of having real executive authority over manly Xtian men like yourself?

Ultimately, Palin’s nomination will drive anti-choice fundies like yourself nuts, as you twist yourselves in logical pretzels trying to justify your support for her without opposing the Revealed and Literal Word of the Invisible Bearded Sky Man(tm).

Me, I’ll be getting out the popcorn and enjoying the show.

Comment #42: Gracchus  on  08/29  at  05:25 PM

Ashley, it is a good idea to know of and plan for the birth of such a child, as there are often attendent physiological defects that need tending - and the sooner the better for lifelong function.

Comment #43: Ms Kate  on  08/29  at  05:26 PM

Oh, and that is particularly true if you live in the bumfuck backwater of way out nowhere, and need a high level nursery to deliver those services.

Comment #44: Ms Kate  on  08/29  at  05:28 PM

“I hate successful women” schtick

Personally, I can’t think of many more significant failures of character than being a right-winger in this country… presumably murder or directly abusing those weaker than me, but IMNSHO there are still better excuses for some murders than there seem to be for advocating the feudalism-all-the-way-to-fascism ideological gamut of the GOP.  God knows my mother’s ghost would haunt me if I became a wingnut, anyway, because she had zero tolerance for selfish, crude, I-got-mine, kick-‘em-when-they’re-down people.

Comment #45: latts  on  08/29  at  05:34 PM

BobK: “This is driving the radical feminists nuts.”

No, its really not BOB, but I guess you define radical feminism differently than I do.

That’s great that she had her baby and she thought it was perfect. She had the CHOICE to do that and that was what she wanted. I want her to have that choice. Radical Feminists want there to be a choice and she can do whatever she wants to do with it. What she can not do, and what makes her a colluder, is the fact that she happily works against other women’s right to choose.

Just because she doesn’t want me to have a choice, doesn’t mean that I don’t think she shouldn’t be in charge of her own body. It just means I don’t think she should be in charge of making any decisions that could impact myself and other people she isn’t related to.

And Sharon, I know Amanda already said what she needed, but I have to ask if your definition of a successful Jewish person would be one that worked for the Nazi’s during the Holocaust? That is the only logical conclusion I can draw from your reading of Amanda’s post. I think its a fair question since the Republicans like to call everyone who doesn’t agree with them the next Hitler, and its not like we never had forced and coerced sterilizations here in the US.

Either way, I am still feeling quite proud after that speech last night. McCain may have taken the focus off of it for the next few hours but most people on the East Coast are already commuting to vacation mode for labor day and not sitting at work on the internet.

Comment #46: Daisy  on  08/29  at  05:43 PM

”...I have to ask if your definition of a successful Jewish person would be one that worked for the Nazi’s during the Holocaust?”

...that’s just a great example of bipartisanship…

Comment #47: MikeEss  on  08/29  at  05:45 PM

I’d be that Sharon worships Quisling.

Comment #48: Ms Kate  on  08/29  at  05:48 PM

I’d bet ...

Comment #49: Ms Kate  on  08/29  at  05:48 PM

I hate women who play patsy for the patriarchy.  Like you and like Palin.  I hate your guts, and you’re a failure and a moron, to boot.  So the consistent thread is hating women who hate women.

Nah, you hate women who get married, have children, and still have good lives, especially if they manage to juggle successful careers in the mix. Because, naturally, they must be “patsies for Teh Patriarchy.”  See, women who don’t see men as the enemy don’t hate women. They actually think women aren’t victims of some grand scheme to make all women barefoot and pregnant. So, no, I don’t hate women, one of your dumber statements. I just pity you.

Now about Palin’s experience. She’s been a mayor and a governor, both executive positions. That’s more than Obama has, and she isn’t trying to be POTUS. Why is voting “present” more exemplary of leadership skills than running even a small state?

And the arguments about her supposed corruption are really weak, compared to Obama’s connections to shady characters (including all the money funneled to Biden’s son).

Palin won’t win McCain the presidency, but she’s certainly a better choice than the Democrats have.

Comment #50: Sharon  on  08/29  at  05:49 PM

I think its a fair question since the Republicans like to call everyone who doesn’t agree with them the next Hitler

Yeah, because it was Republicans who came up with the whole BushHitler thing.

Comment #51: Sharon  on  08/29  at  05:51 PM

Palin might even have been class president in high school, so that gives her presidential experience, right Sharon?...

Comment #52: MikeEss  on  08/29  at  05:52 PM

A mayor.  Ha ha ha.

Comment #53: Ms Kate  on  08/29  at  05:57 PM

...and Palin was treasurer of the stamp-collecting club, and she operated a fan club for Bon Jovi for a few years, and she had a part-time job at McDonald’s where she rose up to assistant night manager, and we can’t forget forget she was captain of her high school basketball team.

My god!  She already has more experience than Franklin Roosevelt — and she’s only 44!!!...

Comment #54: MikeEss  on  08/29  at  05:57 PM

As I’ve said elsewhere, representing 670,000 people in a homogeneous state is not the same as representing 12,000,000.

If I tracked it down correctly, Obama represented just about as many people in the Illinois State Senate (The 13th District) as Palin represents as governor.

Comment #55: Vir Modestus  on  08/29  at  05:59 PM

OTOH, supposedly Palin was born in Idaho.  And we’re just expected to believe that?  Where’s her birth certificate? 

How do we know she wasn’t actually born in Canada, maybe even to Quebecer parents, and then smuggled into the US in an attempt to make America surrender to Canukistan and be forced to have everything labeled in both English and French?

My god!  I can’t believe how diabolical those Republicans are! 

No wonder god chose them to be America’s leaders…

I just wish there was some elite Democratic Kerner Squad to research this whole thing out…

Comment #56: MikeEss  on  08/29  at  06:05 PM

Nah, you hate women who get married, have children, and still have good lives, especially if they manage to juggle successful careers in the mix.

Sharon, you are soooo clueless.  I’m married, have kids, have good a good life, PhD, a career and I’ve never felt the least bit hated by Amanda.  I tend to agree with much of what she says, and let her know how and why when I think she’s barking up the wrong tree - a rare event, but it happens.

I think you are overrating yourself on your compliance with The Program.  I don’t think for a minute that if Amanda wanted to be married, have kids, etc., she would even hesitate to just fucking do it and without apology.  That is called agency.

Comment #57: Ms Kate  on  08/29  at  06:05 PM

Sharon,

As many conservatives do, you’re confusing executive experience (i.e. the job title) with leadership experience (i.e. the functional aspect). To be sure, one has to have practical experience in one’s general industry/sector to be an effective leader or executive, but beyond that the criteria for moving to the next level on the basis of merit involve factors such as operational scale, accomplishments, and management style (to name just a few)

In regard to the issue of executive role in government, the US system of checks and balances and succession are set up specifically with the assumption that members of each of the 3 branches of government will have intimate familiarity with the workings of the other two.

Comment #58: Gracchus  on  08/29  at  06:10 PM

The folks at confluence (aka PUMA) are already busy pushing Palin.  (So much for claiming they are not repugs)

Comment #59: Arbio  on  08/29  at  06:27 PM

The trolls are thick in here.

Comment #60: ice weasel  on  08/29  at  06:28 PM

I think she is one of the most UNcharismatic people I’ve seen besides McCain this campaign. Her accent alone makes me want to deduct IQ points.

*shudder*
A former beauty queen as VP and an old, peeling-like-rotting-fruit white man as POTUS?
Help me, Obama-wan-Kenobi. You’re my only hope.

Comment #61: Lindsay  on  08/29  at  06:28 PM

That’s more than Obama has, and she isn’t trying to be POTUS.

That’s why they should hire me as an NFL back-up quarterback because it’s not like I’m trying to be the starter. I mean, what are the chances of the starter getting injured? Like a gajillion-to-one?

Comment #62: LanceThruster  on  08/29  at  06:30 PM

Palin’s choice finally brought my wife fully on board for McCain, and I have yet to detect any misogyny in any of her attitudes.  Her son going to Iraq, McCain’s son already been there (still there?) doesn’t hurt.  I think she does make the race more interesting.

Comment #63: tomonthebay  on  08/29  at  06:33 PM

“...finally brought my wife fully on board for McCain…”


Get the fuck out. Seriously. The fact that she was even considering McSame is clear evidence that she is misogynistic.

How many children do you have? Are you one of those awesome men that treat their wife’s vagina like a clown car? Because if you don’t and you use contraception at all, you are a massive hypocrite.

Comment #64: Lindsay  on  08/29  at  06:40 PM

Palin’s choice finally brought my wife fully on board for McCain, and I have yet to detect any misogyny in any of her attitudes.  Her son going to Iraq, McCain’s son already been there (still there?) doesn’t hurt.  I think she does make the race more interesting.

To clarify, the main attraction for your wife is that both McCain and and Palin are willing to back up their support for the on-going Misadventure in Mesopotamia by doing what Bush and Cheney wouldn’t and sending their kids?

My editorialising about Iraq aside, I’m genuinely curious. Obama obviously can’t compete on that count, as his daughters are too young. But Biden’s son is being deployed to Iraq this October.

Comment #65: Gracchus  on  08/29  at  06:42 PM

I had hoped, at least, that after Clinton’s speech this week we’d seen the last of the cable news network attempting to have a discussion about gender.  Now we’ve got 8 more weeks of the Tucker Carlsons and the Chris Matthewes of the world leering at winking at Palin.  WHY DOES JOHN MCCAIN HATE ME?

Comment #66: blucas!  on  08/29  at  06:44 PM

Now about Palin’s experience. She’s been a mayor and a governor, both executive positions. That’s more than Obama has, and she isn’t trying to be POTUS.

By that measure, she has more executive experience than McCain.  Shouldn’t you be screaming for her to be at the top of the ticket instead of the far less experienced McCain?

Comment #67: Mnemosyne  on  08/29  at  06:45 PM

“do you smell that?”
“yeah…...FEAR”

Ah if only Palin was pro choice…she really would have it all. I have never seen the claws come out so fast in my life for a candidate. I am loving how the left attacks….They dont give a crap about women or minorities, unless of course they are liberal. I have to admit that in a perfect world she would not be my first or even second choice for VP. But she is smart, right on the issues and a rising star. This pick today left a smirk on my face all day. The next 67 days will not be good for Obama, the Ayers thing will be front and center, a little known fact to the average joe. Today McCain not only hit the bullseye…he destroyed the entire target. Im convinced that the tide has turned and obama WILL lose. And Everyone here and on KOS knows it too. “yeah…fear”

Comment #68: Casp  on  08/29  at  06:49 PM

What this looks like from Mile High’s Nose-Bleed Seats

This is another example of McCain’s lack of judgement.

When Obama picked Biden I was one of the people saying “My God, how does this help him win the election?” I wanted a more politically strategic pick, one which would deliver some key state or constituency. I was wrong. Obama, having much better judgement than I, chose a VP based not on what was good for the election or for the party but for the good of the country.

McCain, when choosing his VP chose someone who appeals to a key constituency and is good for the GOP but is bad for the country.

McCain’s choice is another example of how the GOP puts party before country.

Since Presidents age about 1 year for every month in office (kind of reverse dog years) and McCain is unhealthy at 72, it is highly unlikely that McCain will finish his first term. In that light nominating McCain is itself a big middle finger to America adding a VP as out of touch as Palin is just adding insult to injury.

This ties in with everything the GOP has done for the last two decades. Was spending two years investigating and impeaching a President over a sexual dalliance good for the country? No but it was good for the party.

Was it good for the country to tell Americans to go shopping after being attacked rather than to prepare for mutual sacrifice and responsibility? No but it was good for the GOP.

Was attacking a country which posed us no threat and did not attack us good for the country? No but it was good for the GOP.

The list goes on. From Gingrich to Bush to Cheney to McCain Republicans have shown terrible judgement and have consistently put the party ahead of the country. It is time for Democrats to tell them Enough!

Comment #69: Colorado Dave  on  08/29  at  06:56 PM

But she is smart, right on the issues and a rising star. This pick today left a smirk on my face all day.

The funniest part is that Obama predicted this last night when he said the Republicans would make a big election about small things.

We have a collapsing credit system, increasing unemployment, and an unending war in Iraq, and what’s at the top of your list?  Smirking because your guy, like, TOTALLY PWNED!!!

Politics is not a game.  It affects people’s everyday lives.  I’m always saddened to see people like you treat it like it’s the World Series and nothing more.

Comment #70: Mnemosyne  on  08/29  at  06:57 PM

Could you change that graphic so it says “Ladies Against Women”?  That would be awesome.

Comment #71: Jake  on  08/29  at  07:05 PM

“This is driving the radical feminists nuts.”

On what planet?

Comment #72: Notorious P.A.T.  on  08/29  at  07:15 PM

Unemployment is low…wtf are you talking about
the economy grew at 3.3% last quarter….doing fine
The war WILL end one day..but all the crappy new government programs he wants to institute will NEVER end….and considering we are on the hook for over 50 trillion for the programs we have NOW. The fact that you would want ANY new programs added shows that you dont give a crap about the country. Someones children will have to pay that bill.

aas for getting Pwned….well we will just have to see…but what I see is President McCain. I care more about people that you EVER will. Getting the government OUT of your life is the first step.

Comment #73: Casp  on  08/29  at  07:20 PM

am i the only one who, while i would rather eat my own undies than vote republican, am practically spitting fire on behalf of condoleeza rice?

fucking mccain passed up a woman who has been the us secretary of state for 8 years to pick mayor mccheese of bumblefuck alaska.

and seriously, no. i refuse to believe that its sexist for someone to question the family values of anyone, male or female, who is going to embark on a nationwide campaign for VP with a fucking special needs infant at home. id be just as angry if obama were doing so. palin chose to have this child, now she and her husband have a responsibility to give this child their all. thats the fucking awesome thing about having freedom of choice, nobody is forcing you to have the special needs child, but if you choose to have it, you better cater to the kids needs.

Comment #74: jessilikewhoa  on  08/29  at  07:21 PM

She’s been a mayor and a governor, both executive positions. That’s more than Obama has, and she isn’t trying to be POTUS.

No, she’s trying to inherit it when McCain dies in office. Super-feminist, that. I can see how unreasonable it is for Amanda and others not to immediately forswear the Black Messiah and vote for the next Susan B Anthony, here.

How long has she been mayor, again? Ten minutes? Did she even get her boxes unpacked before McCain tapped her for Vice POTUS?

Comment #75: Chet  on  08/29  at  07:26 PM

I don’t hate successful women, you moron.  God, could you be more stupid?  Not if you scooped your brain out with an ice cream scoop.

I think Hunter at DKos said it best regarding Republican stoopid when he said, to paraphrase, “...couldn’t be stupider if you scooped out your brains and filled your head with mayonnaise.”  Yeah, Teh Sharon, she’s that stupid.

Nah, you hate women who get married, have children, and still have good lives, especially if they manage to juggle successful careers in the mix.

I’m married.  To a man.  For 14+ years.  And I don’t believe Amanda hates me.

Sharon, on the other hand, is a paranoid, easily frightened nitwit.  Seems to be the meme with rightwing godbags:  Be afraid of everything.  Terrorists, illegal aliens, godless liberals, feminists, environmentalists, gun laws.  Interesting bit of irony, that, since the Bible is filled with admonishments to “not be afraid.”  Don’t they ever read that book, or is it just a doorstop? 

A mayor.  Ha ha ha.

A mayor of a town of 6,000 or so.  Sheesh, the village (that’s its legal designation) where I live has a population of 10K.  Perhaps our mayor should have been in the running for McCain’s VP?

Comment #76: AdobeDragon  on  08/29  at  07:31 PM

If McCain really wanted to advance women, he would have chosen Snowe or Collins or Dole or Hutchison or Rice. The fact that Palin has little experience is by design to show the social conservatives that McCain doesn’t really think women are equal.

The bigger point though is that Palin is very socially conservative:
she is for abortion only if the woman’s life is in danger (although she is ok with contraception);
thinks creationism should be taught alongside evolution in school;
has doubts about global warming;
and is not only against gay marriage but also same-sex health benefits.

Comment #77: JohnL  on  08/29  at  07:31 PM

And I don’t believe Amanda hates me.

Well, she won’t hate you, provided you don’t behave like you enjoy being married. Then she’ll claim that you’re just a tool of Teh Patriarchy and hate sex and I don’t know what else.

Sharon, on the other hand, is a paranoid, easily frightened nitwit.

LOL Oh, please. Why do liberals fear conservative women so much? I’m not afraid of liberals, feminists, atheists, homosexuals, goblins or gremlins, AdobeDragon. Pointing out where your philosophies and politics would cause (or do cause) problems for our society isn’t fear. It’s just common sense.

Comment #78: Sharon  on  08/29  at  07:36 PM

Sharon, what do you have against Snowe, Collins, Dole, Hutchison, and Rice? These are all Republican women who have tons more experience than Palin. McCain barely even knows Palin (he had to look at his teleprompter to get her name right), so it’s obvious that she was chosen because she’s a woman with little experience—her place is as a symbol and that’s it.

Comment #79: JohnL  on  08/29  at  07:51 PM

Question - has Palin ever even been to Washington DC? I mean that’s what, a 20-hour flight for her?

Comment #80: Chet  on  08/29  at  07:54 PM

Gracchus wrote:

In regard to the issue of executive role in government, the US system of checks and balances and succession are set up specifically with the assumption that members of each of the 3 branches of government will have intimate familiarity with the workings of the other two.

Well, in that regard, Mrs Palin trumps all of the other three: she’s had legislative experience on city council and executive experience as a mayor and a governor.  The other three candidates have legislative experience only.  None, of course, has had judicial experience.

Comment #81: Dana  on  08/29  at  07:54 PM

she’s had legislative experience on city council and executive experience as a mayor and a governor.

So, ten minutes of “experience” as an executive is better than, say, a decade as a legislator? She was mayor of a village, where the hardest duty was probably judging the biggest pig at the county fair.

She’s substantially inexperienced. To say she has “experience as an executive” is to say that I have experience as an “Oxford Don” because I drove Oxford, once.

To say that she “trumps” anything is ludicrous. She has zero experience in national politics. Absolutely zero.

Comment #82: Chet  on  08/29  at  08:03 PM

You know she’s like Coulter, all about the sex with no babies.
*shudder*
Pass the mind bleach, please.

Comment #83: Wareq  on  08/29  at  08:05 PM

Amanda wrote:

I don’t hate successful women, you moron.  God, could you be more stupid?  Not if you scooped your brain out with an ice cream scoop.

I hate women who play patsy for the patriarchy.  Like you and like Palin.  I hate your guts, and you’re a failure and a moron, to boot.  So the consistent thread is hating women who hate women.

A “patsy for the patriarchy?”  Sarah Palin took on a long-established male Alaskan politician, incumbent Governor (and former Senator) Frank Murkowski in the Republican gubernatorial primary in 2006, and beat him.  Wouldn’t a “patsy for the patriarchy” have said, “Oh, no, I can’t challenge such a powerful and wonderful man?” and stayed in Wasilla?  In 1996, she ran for mayor against the incumbent, another man, and won; wouldn’t a “patsy for the patriarchy” have demurred rather than run against a man?

Perhaps it is your position that any woman who does not hold all of your political positions on “women’s issues” as a “patsy for the patriarchy.”

I do, of course, love how you characterize anyone who disagrees with you as “a failure.”  It would be interesting to know by what criteria you judge such things.  What, exactly, makes you a success and your opponents failures?

Comment #84: Dana  on  08/29  at  08:06 PM

Hey, Sharon’s back!  Sharon, I see you didn’t get around to addressing my question:  shouldn’t the GOP be running Sarah Palin for president and not vice president since she has so much more executive experience than McCain?

Comment #85: Mnemosyne  on  08/29  at  08:09 PM

I care more about people that you EVER will. Getting the government OUT of your life is the first step.

Yeah, if getting the government out of my life included getting the government out of my bedroom in addition to helping people, I’d be all for that.  But the republicans are all for regulating who I sleep with, who I marry, and how I manage my own reproductive functions, all while making it as difficult as possible for me to actually support my children, educate them, keep them healthy, and have any measurable quality of life in the process.

I really don’t see how that is caring about anyone at all.  Unless by people you mean straight, white, christian males, preferably rich ones.

Comment #86: ks  on  08/29  at  08:11 PM

JohnL wrote:

Sharon, what do you have against Snowe, Collins, Dole, Hutchison, and Rice? These are all Republican women who have tons more experience than Palin.

Senators Collins and Snowe of Maine are about the most liberal Republicans in the Senate; they would not have appealed to the base.  Senator Hutchinson is apparently planning on running for governor of Texas.  Senator Dole would have been a decent choice.  Secretary Rice would make a very good vice president, but I’m not sure that she’d make a good candidate: she’s never run for office before.

Senator McCain picked a running mate who will make an excellent vice presidential candidate; how good a vice president she’d make remains to be seen.

He also did something no one has yet considered: if the ticket loses in November, Governor Palin will be the initial front-runner for the 2012 Republican presidential nomination.

Comment #87: Dana  on  08/29  at  08:12 PM

LOL Oh, please. Why do liberals fear conservative women so much?

You mean other than the fact that you keep insisting that you should be allowed to control our lives and our bodies because you know so much better than we do what’s good for us, so you keep doing things like getting pharmacists to deny our prescriptions or EMTs to refuse to transport us to the hospital?

Gosh, I can’t imagine why the fact that you’d rather see us dead than in control of our own lives and are taking steps to make sure it happens would make us hate and fear you.

Sorry, but now that we have conservatives shooting up churches and killing Democratic politicians, it’s hard for me to see people like Sharon and Dana as cute and funny anymore.  They think that murdering people is just part of the political game—hey, if you can’t hack it, shoulda been a Republican!

Comment #88: Mnemosyne  on  08/29  at  08:13 PM

Has Jill Stanek sworn on the Bible that her “finding the Down Syndrome infant left in the dirty laundry area of the hospital, to die” story is true?

No?

I wonder why? Could it be that she is scared of perjuring herself?

Remember, there was a to-do about 10 years ago concerning a “baby parts for sale” racket out of an abortion clinic or two? It was taken to the House or Senate for a special hearing, and the main witness withdrew his (no doubt already submitted in writing) testimony when he was required to swear to tell the truth etc.

As for Palin, it isn’t clear to me whether she had amnio or ultrasound. Ultrasound does not confirm the chromosome content but can be relatively accurate about major malformations associated with Down syndrome, and might be able to identify the characteristic facies. Amnio carries about a 1% risk of spontaneous abortion (miscarriage), ultrasound doesn’t have a known risk.

Comment #89: NancyP  on  08/29  at  08:48 PM

You all might want to browse to http://mudflats.wordpress.com for a, rather good article by an Alaskan blogger about Gov Palin.  It includes a photo of Wasilla (pop 6,000 or so), where Palin accumulated her “legislative” and “mayoral” experience.

It’s quite a good read, and you’ll like the snapshot.  Really.

Comment #90: strangelet  on  08/29  at  08:59 PM

Dana, you’ve got some nerve, coming here and lying through your teeth, smearing people, and generally acting like the putz you are.  Why don’t you tell us all about how them ebil queerz is gunna bully us into marrying them?

More class, right?

Comment #91: Damian  on  08/29  at  09:08 PM

Well, in that regard, Mrs Palin trumps all of the other three: she’s had legislative experience on city council and executive experience as a mayor and a governor.  The other three candidates have legislative experience only.  None, of course, has had judicial experience.

So McCain should switch places with her then, right?

Sharon and probably BobK would have difficulty working through that question, but you and I and the others know immediately that the idea is absurd.

My earlier point,  in response to Sharon’s lack of understanding of how the republic was designed, was that a candidate doesn’t need executive experience to be the choice that trumps all others for an executive office—even the second highest one in the country.

Comment #92: Gracchus  on  08/29  at  09:13 PM

Exception: Condi Rice as both Vestal Virgin and Aunt Jemima.

Comment #93: Judy Brown  on  08/29  at  09:22 PM

Governor Palin will be the initial front-runner for the 2012 Republican presidential nomination.

Good plan.  It worked out so well for President Kemp.

Comment #94: FlipYrWhig  on  08/29  at  09:23 PM

Damian: Would you be kind enough to point out for me a single lie in any of the comments I have made on this thread?  Thank you in advance for your efforts.

Comment #95: Dana  on  08/29  at  09:29 PM

Flip:  It doesn’t always work out that the losing vice presidential candidate wins the party’s presidential nomination the next time around, but they tend to get a bigger shot at it: think Ed Muskie in 1972, Walter Mondale in 1984, Joe Lieberman in 2004 and John Edwards this year.  It’s name recognition and prior service to the party that gives them an initial bump.

Comment #96: Dana  on  08/29  at  09:32 PM

Amanda said “I hate women who play patsy for the patriarchy.  Like you and like Palin.  I hate your guts, and you’re a failure and a moron, to boot.  So the consistent thread is hating women who hate women. “

Um….if you hate women who hate women does that mean you hate yourself?  Just askin’

And Graccus, If you’re going to quote the Bible, get it right.  The second chapter of 1Timothy is specifically talking about conduct during worship.  Since the neither the VP or president typically preach in a church there’s no need to worry about a woman VP or president conflicting with I Timothy 2:12.

Comment #97: Donna  on  08/29  at  09:36 PM

I forgot how much handing out fliers prepares you to be president. Oh and voting “present” 130 times…Oh and spending 140 days in the senate. There is leadership you can believe in. No wonder he is scared shitless of Townhall meetings. If his performance is ANYTHING like Saddleback…hes through. The guy has no idea what he believes.

Comment #98: Casp  on  08/29  at  09:39 PM

They dont give a crap about women or minorities, unless of course they are liberal.

If by “give a crap” you mean “would support politically or vote for”, then yeah you’re right.  Because being willing to vote for a woman or minority regardless of their politics implies that all women and minorities are the same.  Which would be sexist and/or racist.  Duh.

(Where the hell have all these trolls come from anyway?  Did Pandagon get added to some VRWC list?)

Comment #99: KL  on  08/29  at  11:01 PM

I do not want to be accused of being a troll but can see merits on both sides: Women who oppose women´s equality make others feel more comfortable and less misogynist about opposing women´s equality, too, but at the same time, women, just as men, should be free to have different opinions about issues and then debate them on the merits - which is where Palin would lose - without the need for identity-based attacks. Can we agree that this pick further highlights the danger of a McCain presidency, since it raises the specter of a proactive VP championing social conservatism - e.g., abstinence education and anti-choice campaigns - while allowing President McCain the Moderate to keep his hands clean? Cheney did a lot of Bush´s dirty work, too, on scare-mongering and selling torture, though Bush hardly kept his hands clean. Remember, the VP can be about as active and nefarious as the person in office makes it.

Comment #100: Luke  on  08/29  at  11:04 PM

Really good analysis.  In Illinois (and probably elsewhere) the ballot is filled with endless lists of judges and low-level elected officials, school board members, etc.  I know both my mother and sister have told me that if they don’t know who to vote for, they always just vote for the women on these lists.  They figure that, since women are in general smarter, they believe, they’re making the better choice.  I am not making this up.

So, what can we do to make sure women who aren’t obsessed by politics don’t get conned by this cynical and manipulative attempt by Rove and his cronies to steal one more election?

My mom and sister don’t read blogs or newspapers.  They get headlines from cable or on the radio while driving here and there.  They check their AOL a couple of times a week to get the email and joke exchange.  They bitch about Bush like everyone does and loved Hillary because of what Bill did to her.  I don’t want to sound condescending or anything, but it is a reality we have to deal with somehow.

Comment #101: Cynthia  on  08/29  at  11:08 PM

The next 67 days will not be good for Obama, the Ayers thing will be front and center, a little known fact to the average joe.

You guys have been peddling the Ayers thing for five months now—what’s going to finally make anyone give a shit?  Did you get a picture of 8-year-old Obama planting a bomb with the Weathermen?

Comment #102: Mnemosyne  on  08/29  at  11:17 PM

Oh and voting “present” 130 times..

At least Obama’s there. McCain has missed more than 60% of the votes in the Senate throughout his career.

Napping, I guess.

Comment #103: Chet  on  08/29  at  11:25 PM

I know both my mother and sister have told me that if they don’t know who to vote for, they always just vote for the women on these lists.

Yes, elections make me long for living in CA where you always know who’s running and what their positions are. 

Tell your mom and sister that they can get lists from the ABA and several other community watchdogs that tell you whether or not a judge is ‘recommended’ or ‘not qualified’.  Simply voting woman (or Irish as is quite common) isn’t good enough.

Why doesn’t Barack get credit for being a state senator (of a populous state with the 3rd largest city) except for wanting to kill and eat fetuseses?

Comment #104: caren  on  08/29  at  11:33 PM

“Did you get a picture of 8-year-old Obama planting a bomb with the Weathermen?”

...I’m picturing Li’l Barack with a bandanna tied around the ‘fro on his head, wearing a tie dye shirt, some faded jeans, leather sandals with tire-tread soles.  He’s got a copy of Mao’s Little Red Book stuffed in his pocket…

And then I laugh at how stupid the whole thing is…

Comment #105: MikeEss  on  08/29  at  11:46 PM

I live in a town of 8,000 people, with a female mayor who could quite plausibly run for governor. She’s a perfectly nice person, but the idea that she would be a 75-year-old heartbeat away from the president—even after a couple of terms as governor—is just not in there. I think the people who say Palin is purely symbolic are right, which goes very well with the notion that the GOP is rabid about winning office but completely uninterested in operating a working government once it has done so.

You also have to wonder how Palin’s troopergate is going to play out—she’s supporting another woman against a man doing a man’s job, after all, and that’s going to have to give pause to at least some of the GOP base…

Comment #106: paul  on  08/29  at  11:54 PM

“Why doesn’t Barack get credit for being a state senator…”

Apparently only “executive” experience counts.  So being a state senator means nothing.  Just like being a US senator means nothing…unless you were a POW for 5 1/2 years…

Now if he had run a company, oh, like Arbusto Energy, well that’s some solid qualification to be POTUS right there…

Or maybe if he had been mayor of a trailer park, or something…

Comment #107: MikeEss  on  08/29  at  11:57 PM

It’s name recognition and prior service to the party that gives them an initial bump.

But most of the people on your list flamed out very early—and the one who didn’t, Mondale, wasn’t the VP candidate on a losing ticket, he was the actual VP.  So he’s more like Nixon, Bush I or Gore.  I can only think of one VP candidate on a losing ticket who later became the nominee:  Bob Dole, 1976 and 1996.

Comment #108: FlipYrWhig  on  08/30  at  12:03 AM

re: getting ABA lists, etc.

It’s what I do in Chicago, because I’m a political animal.  Most of the people I know, even the multi-degreed, the smart tech types, seem to think politics is something that interrupts your life, and not in a good way, so you put it off as long as you can, or maybe don’t do it at all because you might get called to jury duty (a woman I know told me just today that’s why her son isn’t registering to vote).

There has to be a good and non-offensive grassroots way to raise the quality of information ordinary good people are getting.

Until then, I guess it’s good old fashioned door to door, info booths at community picnics, voter registration drives, the works.  Very labor intensive.  We all know neighbor to neighbor works the best, but oh, dear.  It’s so tiring!

Comment #109: Cynthia  on  08/30  at  12:38 AM

One would expect visting a feminist blog there would be some praise for women who worked very hard to get where she is. But, as we can see thats not the case, if a women doesn’t toe the radical, marxist line, shes no use to them.

It has never been about helping women for radical feminsts. It’s about power and promoting socialism.

Comment #110: BobK  on  08/30  at  12:46 AM

i refuse to believe that its sexist for someone to question the family values of anyone, male or female, who is going to embark on a nationwide campaign for VP with a fucking special needs infant at home.

A specially fitted out “Short Bus Express” with round-the-clock child care?

I like how McCain’s saying experience doesn’t matter, because Palin is just a heartbeat away from the Presidency, in his view. Now my home town—five times as big as Cicely, Alaska—did have the high school wrestling coach as Mayor. And while he did a fine job, he was not exactly Presidential. (I guess ex-wrestling coach Denny Hastert was in line for the Presidency. So maybe that would have been OK>)

But really, picking Palin as VP is like a bad science fiction idea where the President and Congress were selected completely at random, and ordinary citizens filled these offices as if they were on jury duty.

No wonder he is scared shitless of Townhall meetings.

Sure, I guess Obama could spend time with Gramps, whittling with the regulars in front of the bait and tackle store, or dropping into Floyd’s Barber Shop. But why?

Comment #111: Hector B.  on  08/30  at  12:56 AM

Um, did Sarah Palin work hard to get where she is?

Comment #112: FlipYrWhig  on  08/30  at  01:14 AM

If you think that wanting the government out of what women do with their bodies is socialism, I guess so, BobK.

Comment #113: The Dark Avenger  on  08/30  at  01:26 AM

Um….if you hate women who hate women does that mean you hate yourself?  Just askin’

That’s only a gotcha if you decide to ignore the context of the statement.  Here I’ll rephrase it so that even you can understand:

So the consistent thread is hating [individual] women who hate women [as a group].

See, the difference is in hating the individual for the evil they do rather than hating a group for simply existing.  But I’m sure the point is lost on you…

Comment #114: history_mom  on  08/30  at  01:30 AM

am i the only one who, while i would rather eat my own undies than vote republican, am practically spitting fire on behalf of condoleeza rice?

I think Condi has endorsed Obama.  It’d be kind of tricky putting her on the ticket after that.

Comment #115: Johnny Pez  on  08/30  at  03:49 AM

“Sharon, on the other hand, is a paranoid, easily frightened nitwit.”

I’m sorry, Sharon, that you have had to experience the tolerance, acceptance, and kindness of the Left.  Just remember all of the shockingly hateful things said about you the next time that you hear someone on the Left insisting that they are nicer than those mean right-wingers.  The Left believes in all manner of diversity, except for ideological diversity.  If you disagree with them on ideology, in their view, you must be pure evil.

History Mom posted “hating the individual for the evil they do”—unfortunately, for many on the Left, disagreeing with them on political issues consitutes “evil they do.”  Is there any room on the Left for considering that people might disagree with them in good faith, and not motivated by dark, evil forces?  If you are on the Left, please don’t tell me about how the Right deals with dissent, because regardless of what that is or isn’t, that doesn’t address the view of the Left on those who disagree with them.

Comment #116: Watergate  on  08/30  at  05:04 AM

“Sure, I guess Obama could spend time with Gramps, whittling with the regulars in front of the bait and tackle store, or dropping into Floyd’s Barber Shop. But why?”

It’s good that the Left isn’t elitist, and is really in touch with the common folk.

I guess that the Left figures that Gramps is unworthy of attention unless he is in Chicago.  In that case, he can be part of a community that can be properly “organized.”  Otherwise, screw Gramps.

Comment #117: Watergate  on  08/30  at  05:15 AM

“Um, did Sarah Palin work hard to get where she is?”  Um, yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

Comment #118: Watergate  on  08/30  at  05:19 AM

Oh dear.  Watergate, we don’t hate Sharon because of anything he/she can’t change, like being black, or a woman, or having slanty eyes.  We hate Sharon because he/she espouses policies that are going to get women killed, possibly her (if she is in fact a woman).  What’s wrong with looking after your own self-interest?

Comment #119: The Angry Geologist  on  08/30  at  08:53 AM

Flip asked:

Um, did Sarah Palin work hard to get where she is?

In a post in which Amanda began complaining—as always—about women enabling misogyny, one wonders if she will notice this question on the part of FlipYrWhig.  Sarah Palin is the governor of Alaska.  To achieve that office, she had to run for city council in Wasilla, win that, run against the incumbent mayor, a man who had won elections previously, and win that, then run against the incumbent Republican governor of Alaska, a man with a long and strong history in state politics, defeat him in the GOP gubernatorial primary, and then defeat the Democratic nominee for governor. 

Perhaps Flip never bothered to use Teh Google to check, but isn’t it evidence on which our hostess would immediately pounce were it written by Sharon or me of misogyny to even question whether someone who was elected governor of a state worked hard to reach such a position if that governor happens to be a woman?

Comment #120: Dana  on  08/30  at  10:11 AM

Dana, I think FlipYrWhig is trying to ask if Palin actually worked for her success or was brought into politics under the neo-conservative Wingnut Welfare program.

Comment #121: KL  on  08/30  at  10:45 AM

Watergate,

Sure there are plenty of assholes on the Left just as there are on the Right.  But there is a very real difference between “saying asshole things yet voting for real policy dollars to help everyone achieve the American Dream even including Right-wing assholes” and “being all polite on the Internets yet voting to screw you and your children over time and time again”.

I’d rather have bruised feelings during Internet policy debates than not enough economic stability to afford the necessary time to feel them.  On that score I’ll take Left-ish assholes over Right-ish assholes any day.

Comment #122: KL  on  08/30  at  10:52 AM

KL: Many people who enter politics have some sort of small patronage group, so there might well be some people who encouraged Mrs Palin to enter politics.  Still, she took the rather traditional start-small path, winning a city council seat, then challenging and defeating an incumbent mayor, and then, after losing a lieutenant gubernatorial campaign, challenged and defeated the incumbent Republican governor in the primary.  The Murkowskis are a Big Family when it comes to Alaska politics, with Frank Murkowski, the governor she defeated, having also been a United States Senator, and his daughter (whom he first appointed but then subsequently won on her own) a United States Senator.  That’s hard work; no one was just going to give a middle-sized town mayor Mr Murkowski’s job!

Comment #123: Dana  on  08/30  at  11:12 AM

One would expect visting a feminist blog there would be some praise for women who worked very hard to get where she is.

Where is she, except by dint of a man’s generosity? This is the second day of her life that anybody outside of her state has ever even heard of her, and it’s abundantly obvious that it has nothing to do with anything she ever did - since she’s abundantly unqualified for the position - but only because she’s McCain’s pick.

Yeah, that’s super-feminist. Can’t imagine why she’s getting a world of shit from Amanda.

Comment #124: Chet  on  08/30  at  11:48 AM

Chet:  And did you say the same about Geraldine Ferraro, who won a seat in Congress due to her own hard work, but about whom few outside of her district had heard until Walter Mondale picked her as his running mate?  Did you say the same about Hillary Clinton, who, were she simply Hillary Rodham, would never have won a Senate seat in New York?

Mrs Palin came up in politics the hard way, by her own work, running against the established powers in her town and then her state.  You don’t get to be governor of a state without hard work.

Comment #125: Dana  on  08/30  at  12:48 PM

“You don’t get to be governor of a state without hard work.”

...Jesse Ventura?  Arnold Schwarzenegger?...

Comment #126: MikeEss  on  08/30  at  01:02 PM

Mr Ess:  Jesse Ventura and Arnold Schwarzeneggar both ran for office, and won.  Mr Ventura didn’t even have the luxury of running on a major party, and still won.  That’s hard work.

Comment #127: Dana  on  08/30  at  01:32 PM

I don’t doubt that Palin worked hard to get where she is.  McCain worked hard to get where he is.  So did Obama.  So did Biden.  You don’t get to that level of politics without working hard.

However, the fact remains that the vast majority of the time, the 18-month governor of a state with 600K people is not tapped to be the #2 most powerful person in the country.  So you then begin to wonder—why is Palin’s 18 months as governor to 670,000 superior to Obama’s 4 years as Senator to 12,000,000 people when it comes to setting national policy?

I don’t blame her at all for seizing the chance—when else is someone going to come along and ask you to be Vice President of the United States?  I do question her qualifications given her short time in office and the small number of people she has been governing.  What about governing a state with a $12 billion oil surplus prepares you to help run a country that’s $300 billion in debt?

Comment #128: Mnemosyne  on  08/30  at  03:01 PM

And did you say the same about Geraldine Ferraro, who won a seat in Congress due to her own hard work, but about whom few outside of her district had heard until Walter Mondale picked her as his running mate?

Actually I think what I said at the time was “mommy, where do babies come from?” because I was, you know, four.

Did you say the same about Hillary Clinton, who, were she simply Hillary Rodham, would never have won a Senate seat in New York?

Yes, I did say exactly that, as a matter of fact. I’ve repeatedly stated on this forum and others that she has less experience in elected office than Barack Obama, and so it was completely ridiculous for her to pretend like the experience argument was a winner for her. Her Senate seat in New York - where she’s not even from - was basically given to her when her opponent imploded. The only hard campaign she’s ever run in her life was this most recent one, which she lost.

There are plenty of inspiring stories of women in politics. The stories of Palin and Clinton are not two of them.

Comment #129: Chet  on  08/30  at  03:41 PM

Sorry, I over- and understated a bit:  Alaska has a $5 billion surplus (not $12 billion) and the United States has a $410 billion deficit (not $300 billion).

Comment #130: Mnemosyne  on  08/30  at  03:52 PM

“That’s hard work.”

So if I worked “hard” and my qualification for office is being a former professional wrestler, you think I have a shot?  How about if I was a bad actor in some action flicks? 

Or is “hard work” not important so much as having that name recognition or being pretty?...

Comment #131: MikeEss  on  08/30  at  04:34 PM

You know what this dim bitch needs? A nice dose of John Edwards.

Comment #132: Pablo  on  08/30  at  04:36 PM

Pablo, fuck off.

Comment #133: Mnemosyne  on  08/30  at  05:40 PM

See, the difference is in hating the individual for the evil they do rather than hating a group for simply existing.  But I’m sure the point is lost on you…

Gee history_mom, thanks so much for helping even me to understand the finely nuanced point that it is different to for a feminist to hate all of the women as individuals who don’t hold their point of view regarding feminism (even though they are referred to as a group in the post as female misogynists and colluders), than for a non-feminist to “hate” all women (never mind the fact that women who disagree with tennents of feminism such as myself don’t hate other women) ..... Such an important distinction….how could I possibly have missed it!

Except, I wasn’t ignoring the context, I was pointing out the hypocricy of it.

Comment #134: Donna  on  08/30  at  05:54 PM

There are stories that Governor Palin is being investigated for abuse of her office by trying to get a particular state trooper fired.  Well, if the stories are true, she certainly should have done so, but only because the local officials didn’t take action themselves.

Mrs Palin knew this trooper because her sister was divorcing him.  Sounds like a family feud, doesn’t it?  But said state trooper admitted in court documents that he used his taser on his own 11-year-old son and drove his patrol car while drunk.

So, what do you have here?  You have a state trooper who should have been dismissed, and the governor trying to intervene when he was not.  Unfortunately, the governor was related to the trooper’s ex-wife, so it looks like family revenge.  It certainly doesn’t look good from the latter angle, but as governor, she was doing her duty.

Mrs Palin would probably have been better served politically to have recused herself on this one, but a state trooper who abuses his own children and drives while intoxicated in a state police car needed to be gone.

Comment #135: Dana  on  08/30  at  06:02 PM

Unfortunately, the governor was related to the trooper’s ex-wife, so it looks like family revenge.

She’s not just “related” to the ex-wife:  his ex-wife is Palin’s sister.  And there are competing stories, to say the least—the ex-husband says that the Palin family was essentially stalking him and he has voicemails and e-mails to back him up.

But I think we can all agree that it was bad for him to illegally kill that moose.

Comment #136: Mnemosyne  on  08/30  at  07:03 PM

Look at childless Ann Coulter—-you can’t tell me that she is unaware of how not to have a baby.

I thought that was because she has ‘Hostile Womb Syndrome’?

Comment #137: Childe O' Grace  on  08/30  at  07:57 PM

”....distracting her from being a womb on wheels. “

Uhhh, wouldn’t “womb on legs” been sufficient, accurate, and more felicitous?  I mean, not all women HAVE wheels.

(“Hostile Womb Syndrome” - LOL! Is that real?)

Comment #138: Eric, Rejector of Memez  on  08/30  at  08:45 PM

“She’s only 44.  I’d wonder what she’s using for birth control, but of course she’s using the natural method, or abstaining, right? “

WTF? She’s got five kids. What do you want?

Comment #139: Eric, Rejector of Memez  on  08/30  at  08:48 PM

Lindsay on 08/29 at 05:40 PM

Oh yeah, bring teh crazy, girl.  ::eyeroll::  Where the fuck did the “clown car” comment come from?

THIS kinda craziness is what make convincing reasonable people to read these blogs.  I try and I try, and then Hattie, Lindsay, or some other mook messes it up.

Comment #140: Eric, Rejector of Memez  on  08/30  at  08:54 PM

MikeEss: “So if I worked “hard” and my qualification for office is being a former professional wrestler, you think I have a shot?”

MikeEss, normally I enjoy your posts (some of the rare actual wit here), but one thing I hate seeing is people ignoring facts.  Ventura certainly was a professional wrestler (which basically means “stunt-man with a character”), but he was also a 6-year Navy UDT (‘qualified’ to call himself a SEAL, according to Wikipedia), folks who are known for their drive, focus, and dedication, and four-year mayor of the small Minnesotan city of Brooklyn Park (pop 67,338, y2000), ousting the incumbent mayor.

Military service, show business, stint as mayor of a small town.  To run Minnesota, that seems plenty experience.

BTW, one thing about Palin: she DEFEATED the <u>incumbent</u> Alaskan governor in a PRIMARY?  That seems rather remarkable. Is that correct?  Anybody talking about that?

Comment #141: Eric, Rejector of Memez  on  08/30  at  09:12 PM

BTW, one thing about Palin: she DEFEATED the incumbent Alaskan governor in a PRIMARY? 

Didn’t he basically self-destruct? My understanding is that there’s not a whole lot of reason to be impressed by her victory in the primary.

Comment #142: Chet  on  08/30  at  10:24 PM

BTW, one thing about Palin: she DEFEATED the incumbent Alaskan governor in a PRIMARY?  That seems rather remarkable. Is that correct?  Anybody talking about that?

Given that the corruption probe against Murkowski was hitting its stride right around the time of the primary—with more Republicans falling every day—no, it wasn’t especially remarkable.  It’s a similar reason why Blagojevich won in Illinois—the Illinois Republican Party imploded to the point that his opponent’s campaign slogan was basically, “I’m not the George Ryan who’s under indictment—I’m a totally different guy named Ryan!”  Palin was one of the few Republicans running who wasn’t connected with Murkowski, and there was no way a Democrat would be elected in Alaska.

As I said, I give her props for being able to take advantage of the political climate to go from small-town mayor to governor of the state, but I don’t think that qualifies her to be the Vice President of the United States.

Comment #143: Mnemosyne  on  08/30  at  10:31 PM

Another reason Murkowski lost—people were pissed that he appointed his daughter to fill his Senate seat after he was elected governor.  Alaska is now only one of three states that does not allow its governor to fill vacant US Senate seats—the legislature passed a bill because they were so angry at Murkowski.

Comment #144: Mnemosyne  on  08/30  at  10:34 PM

Oh, sorry—it looks like it was a ballot initiative, not a law passed by the legislature.  So, yes, the citizens of Alaska were not in a Murkowski-reelecting kinda mood that year, to say the least.

Comment #145: Mnemosyne  on  08/30  at  10:37 PM

Donna, there is no hypocrisy in saying you hate people for their actions but not for inherent characteristics. That you still fail to grasp it is not a surprise. 

And Watergate, it is not that one holds opposing beliefs that I think is evil, it is the attempt to force their beliefs on me, a woman with a functioning uterus. It is the attempt to dismantle any social program to assist families in need and prevent the creation of necessary legislation and programs to support families (you know, a real pro-life position). It is the desire to gut the education system to ensure unequal access to opportunities. And a whole host of other misanthropic policies supported by conservatives like Sharon that makes it evil. But again, it really isn’t a surprise that you fail to grasp that as well. For the “Left” to be tolerant as you define it would have meant that we couldn’t have called Nazis evil for their genocidal beliefs, which they turned into policy. Before you shriek “Godwin’s Law” at me, consider that this is the logical extreme of your position.

Comment #146: history_mom  on  08/31  at  03:18 PM

I have carefully read all of the comments thus far and
have come to a considered conclusion.

You people are stark raving insane.

Comment #147: aw  on  08/31  at  06:26 PM

You people are stark raving insane.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but a light just went on in front of my eyes.

Comment #148: junk science  on  08/31  at  08:23 PM

Hey Amanda,

errrrr….

Comment #149: Violet  on  09/01  at  02:12 AM

“For the “Left” to be tolerant as you define it would have meant that we couldn’t have called Nazis evil for their genocidal beliefs, which they turned into policy.”

So, in your view, people who disagree with you are no better than Nazis?

Can’t you admit that there is a difference between conservatives, right wingers, etc. and Nazis?  That really proves my point - there are many on the Left who believe that people on the Right are as morally evil as Nazis.

Can’t you at least try to believe that there are at least some people who disagree with you, say, on education policy who have motivations that aren’t pure evil?  I want to gut our education system because it sucks and has failed my children.  Are you that closed-minded that you can’t even imagine, for just a moment, that my opposition to the current education system isn’t based on some malicious, evil intent, but on a good-faith belief that a different system would better?

Sharon - yet more proof of the tolerance, acceptance, and nuance of the Left - if you disagree with them, you are a Nazi.

Comment #150: Watergate  on  09/01  at  03:35 AM

All I know is that if McCain/Palin win then I’m definitely leaving the country.  Probably moving to Sweden where the government actually gives a damn about working families and is proactive about providing some sort of assistance.

I mean I will probably have to move anyway.  If McCain/Palin win, I am not sure if I’m going to be granted access into the exclusive country club America will slowly turn into.  If I stay, I suppose they will let me a caddy or perhaps be a cocktail waitress…but I’m sure I’ll be stiffed and treated like crap while being slapped on the ass by the men while being called a whore by their wives.

Comment #151: so.unloveable  on  09/01  at  04:41 AM

Sorry for my lack of eloquence.  I didn’t realize it was 3 a.m.  I’m on the verge of a coma yet I couldn’t leave after reading all the comments without saying something.

Comment #152: so.unloveable  on  09/01  at  04:45 AM

I read your post. for the first time, I actually read the whole thing? Here’s my problem. I cannot see how you equate “Anti-feminism” with anything Sarah Palin has done…

  Maybe I just don’t get it, as I usually disagree? But please, on this one? Help me out, ok?

Comment #153: Blitz  on  09/01  at  10:42 PM

Watergate:  I see reading comprehension isn’t actually one of your strong points.  What’s sad is that you just did exactly what I said you would.

And yes, I do find it evil that you would try to gut a system that has helped and served far more people than it has failed. But since your precious snowflake had trouble, you want to destroy it rather than advocate reforms to prevent someone else’s child from losing out. Because in the end, it is all about you and you got yours, so fuck everybody else.  That pretty well sums up the conservative position.

Comment #154: history_mom  on  09/02  at  02:01 AM

Donna, there is no hypocrisy in saying you hate people for their actions but not for inherent characteristics. That you still fail to grasp it is not a surprise. 

History mom, did it ever occur to you that women who disagree with feminism do so not because they hate women but because they don’t like the actions of feminists? Of course not.  because then you couldn’t create this false dichotomy where a feminist disagreeing with non-feminist ideology is about hating “actions” but a non-feminist disagreeing with feminist ideology is about hating people for their inherent charactistics.

Comment #155: Donna  on  09/05  at  10:32 AM
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