Login

Register

Member List

RSS Feed

Amanda | Contact

Auguste | Contact

Jesse | Contact

Pam | Contact

Next entry: Why birtherism matters Previous entry: But he still watches college basketball!

Why Obama did the right thing

Monitoring right wing rhetoric and skeptical debunking of conspiracy theories and woo are two of my major areas of interest, so hopefully you'll forgive me for being a little giddy when Barack Obama decided to take the birthers head on this morning by releasing the long form birth certificate they've been claiming they want so badly to see.  As soon as it happened, I knew two things were inevitable: 1) The birthers would not accept the evidence in front of them and their claims that he's not a citizen would just get more baroque and 2) There would be harumphing from the people who are convinced that this kind of silliness can be ignored until it goes away. 

On the second point, I want to come right out and say that Obama did the right thing here.  The only real objections I have are with regards to timing---he probably should have just taken advantage of the situation by waiting until a politically opportune time to release his birth certificate.  Jesse, in chat, suggested that right before the first GOP debate would have been awesome.  But as it is, I think he had to deal with it and deal with it head on.  I was skeptical initially, but upon thinking about it, it's clear that dealing with it was the only option.

We've tried the "ignore the liars and they'll go away" thing and it's failed. Time and time again, people on the left try to ignore some right wing nuttery in hopes that it just disappears from lack of oxygen, and it sneaks up to bite us in the ass.  An unwillingness to fight back hard is why ACORN was dissolved.  It's probably why John Kerry was swiftboated out of winning in 2004.   It's how Terri Schiavo suddenly became a national story.  It's why health care reform turned into such a clusterfuck, and why the Democrats are acquiesing on budget-cutting instead of demanding more stimulus.  Acting like we're too good to even acknowledge people screeching about death panels and conspiracy theories involving John Kerry's war wounds has proven a failed strategy.

Punching back and setting the record straight, on the other hand, has shown promising signs of working.  Case in point: It saved Planned Parenthood's ass.  As soon as Lila Rose started going on TV and telling straight up lies about Planned Parenthood, Planned Parenthood put forward an aggressive defense.  Every lie floated about them was smacked down with haste.  The result was that when Republicans tried to defund Planned Parenthood, Democrats were able to stand firm and feel supported.  Contrast this with the reaction to ACORN---Democrats folded, allowing the vicious lies about the organization to dictate their choices because, in part, there wasn't a well-publicized truth they could cling to in order to defend themselves.

Does setting the record straight stop the lies and bullshit?  Absolutely not, and I'm hoping that the Obama administration isn't surprised when it turns out the birthers won't shut up, and that probably will include Donald Trump. But hitting back hard with the facts does create polarization, and that's what needs to happen here.  The biggest danger conspiracy theorists pose is not that the public will just simply start buying their nutty ideas wholesale, but the perception that where there's smoke, there's fire.  Again, with the Planned Parenthood example, what we saw was that Planned Parenthood's willingness to aggressively contradict lies about what services they provide and how much they do work with law enforcement when it comes to sex trafficking seriously limited how much the right was able to imply that something fishy was going on at Planned Parenthood. 

And so it goes with this birth certificate thing. Full blown birthers won't be moved one bit on this.  But I fear that a growing number of people were beginning to suspect that Obama was hiding something, because they can't think of another reason you would avoid talking about it.  By showing that he wasn't afraid to engage and denounce the birthers, Obama has done a lot to clear the air of smoke.  Now we can see that there isn't a fire, but a bunch of right wing nuts pumping smoke machines. 

I'm increasingly convinced that the way to deal with right wing lies is to spend less time worrying about the drawbacks to thorough rebuttals, and just issue the rebuttals.  I understand the fear of giving credence to lies by attending to them.  I definitely get why you don't want to validate some underlying narratives by correcting the record.  For instance, there is a very valid concern that by saying 97% of what Planned Parenthood does is not abortion, you're validating the taboo against abortion, or by demonstrating that it's false that feminists are ugly/humorless, you're throwing the ugly and the humorless under the bus. But it's also possible to overthink this.  Lies are a lot like fires that have gotten out of control.  You need to put the fire out before you start to fix the damage it's done.  And with lies, you're not even going to begin to counteract the damaging implications of them until you actually get the facts out in the first place.

With this birth certificate thing, I think we're going to see the refreshing effect that a little truth-telling can have on a debate.  Within just the course of the day, I've seen a dramatic uptick in the number of people willing to say directly that birthers are just straight up racists, for instance.  Part of the reason was that as long as birthers could hide behind the claim that all they needed was to see the long form birth certificate, there was plausible deniability.  Now that they've seen it and they're still squawking, it's become undeniable that they just don't like seeing a black man representing the nation, and they're willing to say any crazy thing that occurs to them to deny that he's a legitimate leader.  Hopefully, being a birther will soon be seen as being just as obviously racist as being a segregationist is (and let's be clear, segregationists have tried in the past to claim they're not racist).  I don't think that we were going to get any movement in that direction without the White House dealing directly with this problem. 

------

Registration is now required! We're still in the process of getting it all squared away, so for the moment don't forget to Login or Register using the links in the upper left menu before starting to write your comment.

Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 03:19 PM • (53) Comments

I think it’s a good thing because the wingnuts are going to keep screeching and sounding more and more deranged, the GOP will throw its full support to the Rich Asshole With That Bizarre Hair, and the non-crazy segment of the population will have another 18 months to sit there, watch them, and say “Sweet merciful crap in a casket, all the Republicans are completely insane! I’m not voting for them!”

Comment #1: Scott  on  04/27  at  05:06 PM

As a rule, giving into a bully’s demands just emboldens him to demand more and more. You’ve got to push back, not let him tromp all over you.

Comment #2: Hector B.  on  04/27  at  05:13 PM

Scott, you forget that the crazy element can easily convince the gullible and stupid element to get on board with their bullshit and then somehow, in spite of sense, reason and a majority of non-crazy, non-stupid people, the allegedly liberal media will dutifully strap on their kneepads, suck down and then happily regurgitate whatever idiocy is spewed in their direction in the name of “balance”

Comment #3: MadRaven  on  04/27  at  05:16 PM

@Scott

That’s why I think they should be encouraged in all their craziness in the primary. Birtherism, the gold standard, bizarre interpretations of the Tenth Amendment, demands to return to the selection of US Senators by state legislatures, insane saber rattling,  whatever, bring it on! By the time the nominee has “won” the primary, he’ll be perceived as a kook, a Christine O’Donnell on the Presidential level.

Comment #4: Ben D.  on  04/27  at  05:17 PM

Does setting the record straight stop the lies and bullshit?  Absolutely not, and I’m hoping that the Obama administration isn’t surprised when it turns out the birthers won’t shut up, and that probably will include Donald Trump.

He called them “carnival barkers.” I think he knows the score.

Comment #5: Gracchus.  on  04/27  at  05:18 PM

MadRaven@3: The crazies can convince the gullible and stupid only when they have a chance of acting something close to normal.

The GOP is in the process of abandoning the pretense of being creepy but somewhat nerdily charming Norman Bates and turning completely into the Killer Klowns from Outer Space. I don’t care how gullible they are—they won’t get in the car with the blood-drenched lunatic clown.

Comment #6: Scott  on  04/27  at  05:32 PM

“I don’t care how gullible they are—they won’t get in the car with the blood-drenched lunatic clown.”

...well, more correctly, at least 27% of them will not only get into the car with the blood-drenched lunatic clown, they’ll even offer to help pay for gas…

Comment #7: MikeEss  on  04/27  at  05:38 PM

I was just talking to my SO about this.  My take, much like Amanda’s, is that ignoring the crazy just does not work. Not in a world where FOX News can trumpet non-stop whatever crap they want and the other members of the media will dutifully fall in line and act like the crap is newsworthy just because people (mysteriously!) are talking about it.  But there has to be a way to address the crazy while complaining loudly how crazy it is.  I only know Obama released his birth certificate but I think it may have served him to point out that he’s only doing this because certain political leaders keep the birther conspiracy alive and its a complete distraction that is taking precious presidential time away from MUCH more important matters, like JOBS*. 

*as an aside why aren’t the Democrats screaming about JOBS every single time Republicans waste taxpayer money on stupid anti-abortion bills or whatever non-job bill they are floating at the moment.

Comment #8: carovee  on  04/27  at  05:40 PM

Well, I’d say the 27-percenters are the guys in hockey masks and blood-spattered jumpsuits sharpening their axes and giggling inappropriately at all the non-27-percenters, but I think this particular metaphor has now been fed into the demon-possessed mangler by now…

Comment #9: Scott  on  04/27  at  05:43 PM

  This needs to get spread far and wide:  <a > New York Leftist</a> Born in Kenya? Not hardly.

Comment #10: ginmar  on  04/27  at  05:47 PM

*as an aside why aren’t the Democrats screaming about JOBS every single time Republicans waste taxpayer money on stupid anti-abortion bills or whatever non-job bill they are floating at the moment

Because they have given in to deficit hysteria.

Comment #11: bay of arizona  on  04/27  at  05:50 PM

  Well, shit. Here’s the raw link.  http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/03/obama-born-in-kenya-no.html

  The whole ‘ignore them, they’ll go away’ never works, has never worked, and is why we’re left with only bits and pieces of Roe, for example. Plus, the look on birther’s faces when you point out this long list of reasons as to why it won’t work is priceless.

The hard part, really, is that they’re <i>so/i> stupid and their theories are so dishonest—if not morally offensive—-that maintaining one’s cool in the face of that is terribly hard. It’s 2011 and we have this huge population group who just don’t want a black man in the White House.

Comment #12: ginmar  on  04/27  at  05:53 PM

Scott @1: That, too.

Comment #13: Amanda Marcotte  on  04/27  at  05:57 PM

I wish the day he’d released his birth certificate wasn’t also the same day that the supreme court decided to eliminate class action lawsuits because as far as I can tell that hasn’t been getting any coverage in the progressive blogosphere.

Comment #14: clever screen name  on  04/27  at  05:59 PM

I look at it this way:  There is an intractably stupid element in our population who would see the dilapidated GOP van by the river-bottom with the words “Free Candy” spray painted on the side, tell themselves “hmm, seems legit” get in and then not only will they wonder how they woke up two days later naked in a ditch, three states away and missing a kidney, they’ll let the same van driver convince them that it was one of those other dazed naked people with kidney scars that did it to them

Comment #15: MadRaven  on  04/27  at  06:08 PM

I think it may have served him to point out that he’s only doing this because certain political leaders keep the birther conspiracy alive and its a complete distraction that is taking precious presidential time away from MUCH more important matters

Er, didn’t he say that we don’t have time for this silliness and we can now all move on to more important things?

Comment #16: annejumps  on  04/27  at  06:11 PM

In related news, Superman has renounced his US citizenship.

http://tinyurl.com/44zwskx

Did he ever really have it? Show us the cert, Smallville!

Comment #17: Yamara  on  04/27  at  06:14 PM

I think you’re probably right, Amanda, but I think releasing it now was at least as politically advantageous as any other time in the future; we were kind of at a rising crest of stupid Birtherism - Trump, bills in Arizona, etc - and I think Obama just cut that off at the knees.

This is John Cole’s Peak Wingnut theory.  It is wrong.

I look at it this way:  There is an intractably stupid element in our population who would see the dilapidated GOP van by the river-bottom with the words “Free Candy” spray painted on the side, tell themselves “hmm, seems legit” get in and then not only will they wonder how they woke up two days later naked in a ditch, three states away and missing a kidney, they’ll let the same van driver convince them that it was one of those other dazed naked people with kidney scars that did it to them

You forgot to mention that three days after waking, they receive a bill in the mail for kidney removal, with a threat to take their house if they don’t cough up.

Comment #18: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  04/27  at  06:26 PM

#16 The thing is, the lies the birthers tell are lies that these people want to believe.  They want to believe that they’re not racists, that they have reasons other than race for not wanting Obama in the White House.  They won’t look at or examine anything that proves that Obama’s American; their desire is so strong to believe otherwise that they surround themselves with it. It’s simpler that way. I think they’re basically really stupid for whatever reason and they just don’t want to bother.

Comment #19: ginmar  on  04/27  at  06:27 PM

Birtherism is about racism and how deep it goes in American society.  The notion that racism isn’t an important issue worthy of concern is one that I reject out of hand.  Most of the major problems in this country go back to white people’s unwillingness to share the benefits of this country with black people, and the rest go down to straight men being unwilling to share with women and gay people.

Comment #20: Amanda Marcotte  on  04/27  at  06:29 PM

The GOP is in the process of abandoning the pretense of being creepy but somewhat nerdily charming Norman Bates

I always thought the Bush Era GOP was more Patrick Bateman than Norman Bates.

Comment #21: Ben D.  on  04/27  at  06:37 PM

  Remember, the voice of the Repubs has always been Rush Limbaugh. He’s got a huge audience and he can influence stupid people.

Comment #22: ginmar  on  04/27  at  06:48 PM

Crazy lady Orly Taitz is bitching that it says “African” instead of “Negro” so it must be fake and Trump is now demanding to see Obama’s college records. This is the song that doesn’t end.

Comment #23: UltraMagnus  on  04/27  at  07:23 PM

I think the timing was perfect.

It’s the week after Easter.  Nothing is going on in Washington, and the press have so many column-inches to fill.  Hence, the long firm birth certificate release is getting a lot more attention than it would if Republicans were off on their newest sceme to slash funding for PBS shows about nutrition for disabled babies of single elderly grandmothers on public assistance.

Comment #24: Caelan Aegana  on  04/27  at  07:28 PM

Haha, that was a Freudian slip…

*Long form birth certificate.

Comment #25: Caelan Aegana  on  04/27  at  07:31 PM

Haha, that was a Freudian slip…

*long form birth certificate

Comment #26: Caelan Aegana  on  04/27  at  07:33 PM

The only real objections I have are with regards to timing—-he probably should have just taken advantage of the situation by waiting until a politically opportune time to release his birth certificate.

The downside of waiting until just before some politically pivotal moment is that the Repubs would say that there wasn’t enough time to confirm its accuracy.  Doing it now means there’s plenty of time for the birfers to prove just how intractably wrong they are, by making up even sillier explanations like “African isn’t a race, it’s a politically correct term that no one would have used on a birth certificate in 1961”.

Comment #27: oldfeminist  on  04/27  at  07:34 PM

I’ve already seen someone on facebook screaming about how this proves liberals wrong, since apparently we claimed there was no such thing as a long form certificate of birth and there is.

Nevermind that the long and short forms say the same things or that the short form is all you need to prove citizenship…

I don’t think my younger two children have a long form certificate anywhere where we could get to it.  Cook County sends you copies of the computer generated certificate, not a copy with signatures on it.  AS for child number one?  That original certificate was lost moves and moves ago.  Oops.  I guess he’s actually Kenyan.

Comment #28: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  04/27  at  07:56 PM

Yeah, the birthers no longer give a flying fuck about the birth certificate.

I went to RR to see how they’re reacting to Obama releasing the long-form of his birth certificate. The morons are all busy goalpost shifting and insisting that “natural-born citizen” means one’s parents had to have US citizenship at the time of birth (and that they’ve learned this in High-School and therefore the law must have been changed since then).

I’m pretty certain such a definition of “natural born citizen” would exclude about half of all US presidents…

Comment #29: jadehawk  on  04/27  at  08:07 PM

Wow. I agree with David Frum:

http://www.frumforum.com/the-birther-disgrace

If you had told me in 2007 that in 2011 a former Bush speech writer and urepentant neocon would be calling the GOP crazy, I wouldn’t believe it. But here we are.

Comment #30: Ben D.  on  04/27  at  08:28 PM

Even unrepentant Bush speech writer and professional neocon David Frum is calling this whole episode “not so subtly racist”.

Comment #31: Ben D.  on  04/27  at  08:29 PM

Geez, now there’s a doubleyourdating.com ad.  Ugh.

Comment #32: Crissa  on  04/27  at  08:32 PM

I don’t think it’s a matter of ignoring the bully hoping he’ll go away.  I think it’s a matter of now the bully knows just how much harassment to apply.  They also have the ego boost that they have been acknowledged as something worth addressing.  They are creaming their pants.  I don’t want them to be creaming their pants.

Comment #33: Theresa  on  04/27  at  08:52 PM

@Crissa,

I’ve got an Adopt-A-Turtle ad.

Comment #34: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  04/27  at  09:00 PM

The truism remains- to beat a bully give him a bloody nose- bully’s aren’t tough- they are cowards relying on the appearance of strength to cower their foes.

As far as rebutting their lies, I think it was Walter Mondale who lost saying over and over again “Stop lying about my record!”  Saying something is a lie is insufficient.  You need to discredit and ridicule the liars- as the {resident did calling them carnival barkers.

Comment #35: Woody25  on  04/27  at  11:02 PM

Blogger prevents comments longer than X characters from being posted. Just sayin’

Comment #36: Hector B.  on  04/27  at  11:02 PM

Birtherism and racism are like Fundagelical fertility cultism and racism.  They are not necessarily contingent on each other but they mingle very easily.

Comment #37: bekabot  on  04/27  at  11:03 PM

It really doesn’t matter where the President was born. If he was born somewhere other than the U.S., which there is no evidence of, that would just be another of many illegalities we have no choice but to accept, along with: torture, Wall Street fraud, wars of choice…what’s the fuss about

Comment #38: CslashW  on  04/27  at  11:51 PM

Most of the major problems in this country go back to white people’s unwillingness to share the benefits of this country with black people, and the rest go down to straight men being unwilling to share with women and gay people.

If I had to describe my feelings of the behavior of Republicans during the Bush administration and the Obama administration, it would be “disappointed.” I’m honestly disappointed in their behavior, they enthusiasm for torture, and their idiotic obsession with Obama’s birth certificate.

Right wingers have really acted like horrible, disgusting people, preaching about being “real Americans” while spitting in the face and stomping on everything American in their sight just because they desperately wanted tax cuts and felt like they had some kind of inherent right to hold the presidency and freaked the hell out and a morally superior person to themselves took office over the kooks and violent lunatics they were so slavishly devoted to. Every last one of those moral cripples needs to be held to account for their deviant behavior over the past 10 years and should never let their failures be forgotten about.

Comment #39: Tyro  on  04/27  at  11:54 PM

random facts about former presidents that would piss off modern Teabaggers:

Van Buren spoke English as a second language

Both Adamses, Taft and Fillmore were Unitarians

Hoover and Nixon were Quakers

Buchanan was a life-long bachelor

Buchanan, Wilson, Hoover and possibly Johnson had one immigrant parent

Arthur’s father was an immigrant and didn’t become a US citizen until 14 years after the birth of his son

both of Jackson’s parents migrated to North America only two years before he was born

Hayes and Garfield were raised by a single mothers

Ford’s mother divorced his father and even got child support for the kid

Teddy Roosevelt was both a Republican and a Progressive

Wilson was a “pointyheaded intellectual elitist from academia” (i.e. he had a PhD)

Comment #40: jadehawk  on  04/27  at  11:58 PM

CslashW @40, you do know that McCain wasn’t born in the US, right?  And he’s a natural born citizen because at least one of his parents was a citizen (and that people in the Canal Zone at the time were considered on US territory).  But it wasn’t in a US state.

Obama has a mother who’s a citizen, so he’s a citizen.  Full stop.

Comment #41: Crissa  on  04/28  at  12:13 AM

And now a different doubleyourdating ad, ‘why do women love jerks?’ it says.

Comment #42: Crissa  on  04/28  at  12:14 AM

It’s the big Google ad in the horizontal on the root page, if that matters.

...I’ve never gotten a turtle ad.  Ever.

Comment #43: Crissa  on  04/28  at  12:20 AM

...And Hector B @38, atheist’s post actually contained less characters than, say, Tyro’s @41.  So length isn’t really the important factor.

Comment #44: Crissa  on  04/28  at  12:24 AM

and that people in the Canal Zone at the time were considered on US territory

No, I researched that during the campaign. The act that established the Canal Zone stipulated that Panama retained sovereignty over it such that their ius soli applied. McCain was born a Panamanian citizen.

In those days, however many nationalities a kid had at birth, they had to pick one at the age of majority. Considering that McCain took an oath of allegiance to the United States at age 21 when he became a US Navy ensign, I would say he constructively renounced his Panamanian citizenship at that time.

Comment #45: Hector B.  on  04/28  at  12:32 AM

FWIW, my banner ad is for permanent birth control.

Google’s context sensitivity is completely messed up.

Comment #46: Hector B.  on  04/28  at  12:34 AM

FWIW, my banner ad is for permanent birth control.

Google’s context sensitivity is completely messed up.

Either that or it has a really low opinion of you, Hector…

Comment #47: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  04/28  at  01:19 AM

At least you’re not getting ads for Liberty University. I wouldn’t wish that place on my worst enemy’s kid.

Comment #48: JCfromNC  on  04/28  at  01:30 AM

You’ve got to push back, not let him Trump all over you.
Comment #2: Hector B.  on 04/27 at 05:13 PM

Fixed

 

Comment #49: phylosopher  on  04/28  at  02:42 AM

I’ve already seen someone on facebook screaming about how this proves liberals wrong, since apparently we claimed there was no such thing as a long form certificate of birth and there is.

Yep.  The local crazies on the local paper are askign why it took his mother 3 days to sign the cert and the doc 4. 

3-5 days was about the typical stay in the hosp back then for births back then, and you signed when you checked out.  Then the paperwork went up to the doctor.  Idiots.

Comment #50: phylosopher  on  04/28  at  03:16 AM

What made Clinton so effective as a campaigner was his “war room.”  No claim from the opposition ever went unanswered, and the answer always came within 24 hours - the wild accusations only lasted one news cycle.  He didn’t manage as well from the White House, but the principle of always answering back was a sound one.

Comment #51: ThatsNotHistory  on  04/28  at  08:36 AM

But the news cycle wasn’t 24/7, IIRC,  and there wasn’t social networking during CLinton’s terms..

Comment #52: phylosopher  on  04/28  at  11:48 AM

New research suggests people are more likely to endorse conspiracy theories if they would be willing to personally participate in such a conspiracy.

“Douglas and Sutton aren’t denying that fear avoidance plays a role, but they’re pointing to a different (perhaps complementary) phenomenon. In some cases, they argue, belief in conspiracies is a matter of psychological projection — that is, the tendency to apply one’s own attitude to others.”

“These studies suggest that people who have more lax personal morality may endorse conspiracy theories to a greater extent because they are, on average, more willing to participate in the conspiracies themselves.”

“The researchers found that “personal willingness to engage in the conspiracies predicted endorsement of conspiracy theories.” So did a propensity to manipulate others for personal gain.”

Magazine article: http://www.miller-mccune.com/culture-society/belief-in-conspiracies-linked-to-machiavellian-mindset-30295/

Journal article in British journal of social psychology: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2044-8309.2010.02018.x/abstract

Unfortunately the article itself is not published yet and not available in full.

Comment #53: dr_z  on  04/29  at  01:15 PM
Page 1 of 1 pages
Commenting is not available in this channel entry.