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Next entry: Reading The Constitution Might Be Important To Reading The Constitution Previous entry: Keeping up appearances

Yes, Scalia, there was feminism in the 19th century

FeminismHistory

Scalia has conclusively demonstrated that “originalism” just means “projecting my desires onto the original writers of the Constitution, so I can blame them instead of myself for my bigotry”.  Here’s the quote in question, where he dismissed the idea that the 14th amendment prevents gender discrimination:

The only issue is whether it prohibits it. It doesn’t. Nobody ever thought that that’s what it meant. Nobody ever voted for that. If the current society wants to outlaw discrimination by sex, hey we have things called legislatures, and they enact things called laws.

I like his sarcasm there, which really adds to the sense that Scalia’s implying that this women’s equality thing is just a fad that will pass soon enough.  At the link above, and at this one, Scott Lemieux conclusively demonstrates that Scalia’s ability to read the minds of the Constitution authors only comes into play when what he’s channeling from them is what he already believes.  “Originalism” is functionally a religion, where the Constitution is a holy document and the interpretation is done by priest-judges who get to make shit up as they go along, instead of thoughtful jurisprudence. 

Instead of reading the Constitution out loud in the House, the Republicans should do it in Scalia’s office, because he seems to have no idea what the actual text of the 14th amendment is.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Emphasis mine.  Instead of trying to rule by holding seances to ascertain what the folks who wrote this meant by it, Scalia should be reading the text and asking some straightforward questions, especilly about who he considers a “person”.  Are women considered “persons” nowadays under the law?  I’d say yes, even though there’s constant assault on female personhood by the anti-choice movement, and the justice system fails to provide equal protection all the time by not enforcing laws against rape and domestic violence as much as they should.  Matt Yglesias has more on this.

It’s probably true that in the subjective understanding of mid-19th century lawmakers “nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws” didn’t contradict legal discrimination against women. That’s because in some sense they didn’t think women were “persons” the same way men are. By the same token, when the framers authorized congress “[t]o establish Post Offices and Post Roads” they obviously didn’t intend, as a matter of subjective understanding, to authorize automatic postage stamp dispensers or bridges strong enough to carry trucks. But we understand today that a well-run post office does in fact include stamp machines, computers, and all sorts of other technology that wasn’t inside the heads of 18th century constitution writers.

Of course, it’s always possible—-likely, even—-that Scalia thinks this “women are people” thing will turn around any day now, and all our rights will be stripped away and we’ll be returned to chattel status.  I wonder how the women he works with feel about this. 

But Matt’s concession to the notion that folks in 1868, when the 14th amendment was ratified, couldn’t conceive of the concept of women as persons is actually wrong.  On the surface, it makes a rough sort of sense to believe that was the belief back then, because the time seems so foreign and far away to us now.  But it does well to remember that the Victorian era was not the medieval era, and Western civilization was already centuries into the growth of the Enlightenment/secular humanism, which is the basis of feminism.  Matt walked it back almost immediately, posting shortly after that some evidence that some of the people who wrote the 14th amendment did, in fact, think it had the implication of women’s equality.

Rep. Benjamin Butler was present at the creation, and he believed the 14th Am. had the potential to guarantee equal protection for female citizens. Same with Chief Justice Salmon Chase, who affirmed a woman’s equal right to practice law in his 1873 dissent in Bradwell v. Illinois. Chase was not only closer than his fellow justices to the men who wrote the Amendment, he was much more deeply involved in the debates of the Reconstruction period.

As Matt notes, Scalia said “no one” would have thought that women were equal in 1868.  But a short 7 years later, suffrage was denied to women in a decision that nonetheless held that the 14th amendment applied to women.

The larger implication of Scalia’s comment, beyond just the 14th amendment, was that 1860s America was a fantasyland for misogynists, where the notion that women were subhuman was held by consensus and not especially controversial.  This is simply false.  Feminism had existed not just decades before that, when the Seneca Falls convention kicked off the suffrage movement.  Mary Wollstonecraft’s A Vindication of the Rights of Women had been published in 1792, after all.  The concept of women’s equality had been around for a long time, and by the time the 14th amendment came around, the idea that women could be equal was widespread enough to be a kitchen table debate.  Feminism got a big boost from abolitionism, and I’d say that by 1868, abolition would have been far from a fringe idea.  It might have even had an impact on the 14th amendment, though I’d like to hear Scalia try to claim otherwise. 

And let’s face it; if they wanted to exclude women, they could have used the word “men” instead of “persons” in the 14th amendment.  That they didn’t in an environment where feminism was a growing political movement should hardly be read as a ringing endorsement of keeping women as chattel in perpetuity. 

Scalia’s “I can read the minds of people in the past without knowing my history” act is getting really old. Can we just stop pretending he’s some great legal mind?  He doesn’t even know how to read the word “persons”.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 11:56 AM • (35) Comments

Given how powerful Scalia is on the court - and in the minds of conservatives - an equal rights amendment really would look good on the Constitution.

Comment #1: Loch Ness Monster  on  01/07  at  12:25 PM

The cynic in me thinks that this is will end up being used by the Birthers.  If Scalia says women aren’t citizens, then it doesn’t matter that Obama’s mother was born in Kansas.  Obama’s father wasn’t a citizen, therefore Obama must a be a Muslim Fascist Socialist Marxist Usurper of Real America (did I get all the Birther buzzwords in?)

It is sometimes awe-inspiring the level of ass-hatery that Scalia brings out from time to time.  Women aren’t citizens!  Florida can’t count votes in a presidential election!  Torture at Gitmo is A-OK!

Comment #2: bouj  on  01/07  at  12:28 PM

Even aside from what the drafters of the 14th Amendment intended, Scalia was obviously absent from law school the day they taught basic statutory interpretation there.  A statute is to be interpreted according to the plain meaning of its text.  If AND ONLY IF the statute is ambiguous will the court begin an inquiry into legislative intent—and that’s done not by assuming about society at that time, but by examining floor debates, essays by drafters, committee reports, etc.  For Scalia to claim that the word “persons” is ambiguous is preposterous—and would suggest that in his view, none of the Bill of Rights applies to women, since all of those amendments refer to “people” and “persons”.

Comment #3: Amused  on  01/07  at  12:34 PM

My curiosity has been stimulated by Scalia’s remarks and the subsequent flurry of commentary.  Since the Congressional Globe is available online from the Library of Congress, I’m going to see if I can find the record of discussion in Congress regarding the 14th Amendment.  All of this speculation about the meaning of “persons” in 1868 is entertaining, but if we’re really looking for original intent, the discussion of the amendment as preserved in the Congressional Globe might be a more credible source than any other.  I wonder if Scalia had already consulted that document when he made his remarks.  He might be right, you know.  It doesn’t mean that the 14th shouldn’t be applied to women, since originalism it, itself, a pretty bogus notion that seems to be pure convenience.  Originalism is a construct to me, a kind of convenient ideology that flies int he face of commons sense but is useful in wiping out a great deal of progress in the law that the Supreme Court has made.  However, as I said, the record of debate on the amendment might just demonstrate that Scalia was right about the original intentions of Congress in 1868.

Comment #4: DBK  on  01/07  at  12:39 PM

“Can we just stop pretending he’s some great legal mind?”

I’ve read several comments by Scalia aside from the subject of this post and my impression is that he’s just a bitter old asshole. I’m no legal scholar (or “great legal mind”) and would certainly defer to anyone else who is, but I’ve read a lot of Supreme Court decisions (and had a reading comprehension class in elementary school ;->) and his opinions always seem to read as “Its this way because I say it is” as he twists whatever legal precedent he can find that helps support his conclusion.

My 2 cents.

Comment #5: Mark  on  01/07  at  12:53 PM

Given how powerful Scalia is on the court - and in the minds of conservatives - an equal rights amendment really would look good on the Constitution.

They tried it, the conservatives and Reagan with Phyllis Schlaffy managed to turn the whole debate upside down and kept it from being ratified.  The United States since about 1976 has been tromping down the path of white supremacy for votes by one party and the other party afraid to stand up has been silently watching and quietly agreeing. 

If we honestly look at Scalia he is no worse than most of our supreme court justices in their practices.  He like most conservatives on their fundamental principles rely upon the past to justify their current agendas whether accurate or not.  A conservative wants to maintain the status quo (in appearance) but is simply using the status quo concept to further their own ends.  The progressive/liberal admits to furthering their own ends but justifies it by claiming advancement of society and progression towards a common goal.  When I use the term “furthering their own ends” I mean it in an ideological sense, they aren’t explicitly being greedy or attempting to manipulate, merely advocating their positions.

Before they had a solid-right majority Scalia was the right-wing voice of white men everywhere, now he is tromping down the path of bigotry so hard it’s kind of scary to think he’ll easily live another 20 years.  What does bother me though is that the 14th amendment does apply to women, the 15th amendment applies to men.  They clearly define “persons” to include female slaves and immigrant women because while it seems odd females in America were citizens prior to this but with a limited legal role due to misogyny.  The 14th amendment protects everybody of both race and sex by default of citizenry status.  The abridging of privileges and rights is inserted to apply to all citizens to avoid the issues that southern states would later use in the Jim Crow era.  Clearly Scalia is just a blithering moron and a raging bigot.

Comment #6: Xeranar  on  01/07  at  12:55 PM

Interestingly, they actually do make a sex distinction later in the Fourteenth Amendment. Section 2 (emphasis added, obviously):

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

The distinction between the sexes wasn’t given - it clearly needed to be written in Section 2. Of course, no distinction was made in Section 1. If in order to make the distinction it had to actually be expressed in Section 2, that would imply that no distinction exists in Section 1.

So Scalia’s a douche. QED.

Comment #7: Jeff  on  01/07  at  01:05 PM

Re: legislative intent, comically enough, Scalia abhors the practice of determining legislative intent from anything other than the words of the statute. He openly mocks it as an exercise in cherry picking. Never mind how close it is to his method of constitutional interpretation.

Comment #8: vladimir  on  01/07  at  01:20 PM

A statute is to be interpreted according to the plain meaning of its text.  If AND ONLY IF the statute is ambiguous - Amused

I guess Rabbinic legalism works differently than secular law, although not that much differently.  In Rabbinic Judaism “a statute is to be interpreted ccording to the plain meaning of its text.  If and only if the statute is ambiguous” is the statute to be interpreted exegetically or even eisegetically.  Of course all biblical statutes are ambiguous if you think about them long enough, so ...

Meanwhile, back in secular law, given Scalia’s central position in the conservative pantheon of judicial “thinkers” sophistry about the meaning of persons, his complete ignorance about what the writers of the 14th amendment intended (*) and his clear Humpty-Dumpty reasoning about “the term ‘original intent’ means what I say it means” when challenged about the actual original intent, how is it that conservatives can claim to be in favor of “original intent” and “strict construction” and against judicial activism?

* it isn’t just the 14th amendment and it isn’t just Scalia: e.g., many religious conservatives claim that “the first amendment never was meant to take religion out of government” even though the “wall of separation” phrase against which they rail actually is from a key supporter of the bill of rights!

Comment #9: DAS  on  01/07  at  01:25 PM

I deal with a relative who is very slowly losing mental capacity and verbal discipline. Pretty much whatever they think comes out of their mouth. I think we’re seeing the same thing with Scalia. He is censoring his bigotry less and less. He may live another twenty years, but I’m considering that he may have to step down earlier due to mental compromise.

Comment #10: LCforevah  on  01/07  at  01:35 PM

I think this is especially hilarious given that the 15th amendment, which guaranteed the right to vote regardless of “race, color, or previous condition of servitude” was passed around the same time.  If Congress at the time had wished to exclude women from the protection of the 14th amendment, then they could have easily done so in the same way as they did in the 15th—by making it only apply to discrimination based on race, color, or previous servitude.  That they did not strongly suggests that 14th was intended to be applied as broadly as possible—and to include women.

Comment #11: Captain Bathrobe  on  01/07  at  02:04 PM

“Even aside from what the drafters of the 14th Amendment intended, Scalia was obviously absent from law school the day they taught basic statutory interpretation there.”

Scalia reminds me of the arrogant guy in law school who thought that being named editor of the law review provided final and irrefutable proof that he was the smartest guy in the room. 

Justice Scalia is in love with using the original intent line of analysis whenever it suits his purpose, but not so much when it undermines the outcome at which he’s hoping to arrive.  Forget about looking at the four corners of the document itself in order to divine it’s meaning, Jeff is correct that the specific designation of men in Section 2 of the 14th Amendment leads one to the conclusion that this distinction was not made in Section 1 specifically because there was no intention to strictly limit its applicability to men.

But then again I’m sure it’s quite easy for Scalia to get all meta about why women’s rights should be left to the whims of Congress when he is so comfortably ensconsed in his own male priviledge.

Comment #12: Lolagirl  on  01/07  at  02:05 PM

“And let’s face it; if they wanted to exclude women, they could have used the word “men” instead of “persons” in the 14th amendment.”

<sarcasm>Everyone knows “person” only applies to men and fetuses.<sarcasm>

Comment #13: Albert Cirrus  on  01/07  at  02:13 PM

Republican/Conservative Hypocrisy:

We’re Pro-Life!  (...while we push for more war, but less healthcare…)

We’re for shrinking government!  (...while we massively increase it…)

We’re for balanced budgets!  (...only under Democratic administrations…)

We want to eliminate earmarks!  (...unless they’re for my state/district…)

We’re for reduced regulation and red tape!  (...in those areas where massive profits can be made at the expense of human health and human lives…)

We want to get government out of your wallet!  (...but only if your wallet is really, really big — and we’re going to make sure government intrudes more and more into every other aspect of human existence, especially in your bedroom and your relationships and your womb… kiss privacy goodbye…)

We judge the law only by the original intent of the Framers of the Constitution!  (...as long as we can spin it to say what we want it to say…)

Comment #14: MikeEss  on  01/07  at  02:23 PM

“Look at all the wonderful things you have, sir: King Arthur’s Excalibur. The only existing nude photo of Mark Twain. And that rare first draft of the constitution with the word ‘suckers’ in it.”

Comment #15: norbizness  on  01/07  at  02:51 PM

You can add John Stuart Mill’s “The Subjection of Women,” published in 1869, to the list of roughly contemporaneous works indicating that equal rights for women were far from an un-contemplated subject.  Provocative, yes.  Uncontemplated?  No.

Comment #16: nolo  on  01/07  at  03:01 PM

Everybody already mentioned what I wanted to say - women were specifically excluded from the 15th, and in the ““male inhabitant” clause of the 14th.

The fact that they didn’t in the equal protection clause very much implies that they were specifically choosing not exclude women.

Comment #17: bay of arizona  on  01/07  at  03:26 PM

I’m sure it’s obvious to most of us, but the two biggest problems the current Supreme Court has: There are three justices who are not Catholic, and three justices who are not male.

As soon as President Palin (working closely with Vice-President Bachmann, of course) remedies this grossly unrepresentative and irresponsible situation, the court will be perfect…

Comment #18: MikeEss  on  01/07  at  03:29 PM

Scalia and other court conservatives didn’t seem to have any problem with treating corporations as persons in the Citizens United decision. What concept of “originalism” did they use to support that?

Comment #19: weirdnoise  on  01/07  at  03:46 PM

He thinks the Fourteenth Amendment protects corporations AND Bush’s lead in the 2000 election. 

Not clear to me how originalism supports those issues.

Comment #20: EvskiG  on  01/07  at  03:53 PM

“Scalia and other court conservatives didn’t seem to have any problem with treating corporations as persons in the Citizens United decision. What concept of “originalism” did they use to support that?”

If you had as many years of legal training and judicial experience as Antonin “Obscene Italian Gesture” Scalia, then you’d know the difference between a Proud and Upstanding American Corporation and a mere woman when it comes to legal personhood.  It’s very easy if you have his awesome understanding. 

Also, I think if you’re a great man like Antonin “Hurts So Good” Scalia and a member in good standing of Opus Dei, it helps to wear a cilice and regularly whack yourself with a scourge while formulating your brilliant legal opinions…

Comment #21: MikeEss  on  01/07  at  04:14 PM

And let’s remember that the “male” part was written into the voting-related sections of the 14th and 15th amendments specifically because of Susan B Anthony and a bunch of other women who were going around getting themselves arrested trying to cast ballots. So Scalia fails in multiple ways at the same time: his interpretive method is crap, he applies it aribtrarily and capriciously so that he’s wrong about the plain in-context meaning of the words in front of him, and he’s just plain on another planet about the historical conditions from which his convoluted parsing is supposed to spring.

It seems to me, though, that a proper originalist would have to look not at the meaning of various words at the time they were written, but at their meaning at the most recent time that there was an opportunity to amend them. Because that’s the meaning that constitution-writers meant to leave in place.

Comment #22: paul  on  01/07  at  04:17 PM

...regularly whack yourself with a scourge while formulating your brilliant legal opinions…

I would happily volunteer to help him out with that. (But, unfortunately, the Founding Fathers (TM) seem to make no mention of “safewords”* so I guess I’ll just continue until I get tired… smile)

*and c’mon, you know Ben Franklin was up on that shit

Comment #23: Bagelsan  on  01/07  at  04:39 PM

“It seems to me, though, that a proper originalist would have to look not at the meaning of various words at the time they were written, but at their meaning at the most recent time that there was an opportunity to amend them. Because that’s the meaning that constitution-writers meant to leave in place.”

I think you do have to look at the words and interpret them as they would have been understood at the time.  One specific example would be the “well-regulated militia” part of the 2nd Amendment.  In the parlance of the time, this meant more along the lines of “well disciplined”.  It had nothing to do with giving states the “right” to raise a militia.

Heck, we even have words change meaning in just the last few decades.  Or did you think when the theme song of the Flintstones mentioned having “a gay old time” that meant that Fred and Barney were telling their wives they were going to the lodge, but instead were actually heading off together for a little bit of the old yabba-dabba-doo?

Now, as to whether Scalia is correct in his interpretation, I’d figure he’s likely wrong.  I won’t say definately, because otherwise why would we have the push over the decades to enact some form of the Equal Rights Amendment?

(On a side note, I used to think that the ERA had expired because of the built-in cutoff date.  I only just learned that the cutoff isn’t actually in the text of the amendment, but in the preamble, which means it could very well still be active.  After all, the 27th Amendment was ratified over 200 years after it was originally proposed.  Let’s hope it won’t take that long to get the ERA ratified.)

Comment #24: Cicero  on  01/07  at  06:07 PM

“I won’t say definately, because otherwise why would we have the push over the decades to enact some form of the Equal Rights Amendment?”

On further reflection, I think I can answer my own question on that.  After all, the 15th Amendment affirmed that the right to vote “shall not be denied or abridged… on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.”  Yet Jim Crow reigned for decades in the South after this amendment was ratified.  It didn’t require another amendment, but it did require federal legislation to remedy, and that after many years, tears and lives were spent to make it a reality.

Comment #25: Cicero  on  01/07  at  06:46 PM

I’m pretty sure they didn’t think that it wouldn’t apply to women - they just thought women wouldn’t ask for its protection.  One part hubris, one part intent, one part ignorance.

Comment #26: Crissa  on  01/07  at  07:26 PM

Then again, I think the founding fathers had no intent to disparage women when they chose ‘men’ instead of persons in their writings.  For the most part, many women never had the physiological chance to be equal.

Comment #27: Crissa  on  01/07  at  07:28 PM

I think you do have to look at the words and interpret them as they would have been understood at the time.  One specific example would be the “well-regulated militia” part of the 2nd Amendment.  In the parlance of the time, this meant more along the lines of “well disciplined”.  It had nothing to do with giving states the “right” to raise a militia.

As many people have pointed out since this issue came up, the most important part of the 2nd Amendment argument is that they have no doubt Scalia’s “original intent” interpretations would suffer massive fail if someone used his reasoning to argue that all semiautomatic and automatic weapons, any hand weapon with a self contained cartridge (that is bullet plus propellant handled and fired as a single unit), anything with a magazine, anything with a bolt-action or level action, or any weapon with any other number of post-1800 weapons technology developments that surely the writers of the US constitution were not thinking of (as they didn’t exist) when they were writing the text of said amendment.

Comment #28: KeithM  on  01/07  at  08:05 PM

My understanding is that Jeff at #7 is correct.  In section 2 of the 14th amendment they specifically refer to men—and everywhere else the implication is that it refers to everyone.

This is because there was a big debate at the time of adoption of the 14th amendment.  Ex-slaves were going to be given the right to vote and first wave feminists were agitating strongly that women should also get the right to vote at the same time.  Men specifically decided not to go that route—they didn’t want to give women the right to vote at the national level—they wanted to be clear that they were just giving ex-slave males the right to vote. 

It split the first wave into two groups for 20-30 years (they’d all backed abolition—some were in favor of at least giving male ex-slaves the vote—others said women should also get the vote—and so women suffrage groups split at that point into two groups).

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/vfwhtml/vfwtl.html
1869:
“The women’s rights movement splits into two factions as a result of disagreements over the Fourteenth and soon-to-be-passed Fifteenth Amendments. Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony form the more radical, New York-based National Woman Suffrage Association (NWSA). Lucy Stone, Henry Blackwell, and Julia Ward Howe organize the more conservative American Woman Suffrage Association (AWSA), which is centered in Boston.”

Comment #29: triozyg  on  01/07  at  08:59 PM

Oh—Paul already got the history at #22. 

Scalia is just nutty if he’s taking the “male” part of section 2 of the 14th amendment and applying it to the guarantee of equality in section 1.

Re: #17 above, gender is not mentioned in the 15th amendment (there’s no exclusion of women from the guarantees given in the 15th amendment).  The intentional mention of male in the constitution is the 14th amendment section 2 and that was removed by the 19th amendment giving women the right to vote. 

This is the entire text of the 15th amendment:
“Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.”

Comment #30: triozyg  on  01/07  at  09:11 PM

Let’s hope Scalia doesn’t decide to actually read some history, because John Adams was definitely not on board with that feminism nonsense:

http://www.thelizlibrary.org/suffrage/abigail.htm

Sends me into a frothing rage whenever I read it.

Comment #31: Abra  on  01/07  at  11:22 PM

Scalia loves two things—frothy intellectual legal reasoning, and hurting people he considers subhuman.  He used to let the former rule over the latter, and since 2000, he’s done with that sort of foolishness.

Comment #32: Punditus Maximus  on  01/08  at  11:42 AM

I’m okay with Scalia’s propositions, providing that a couple of conditions are observed.  Which are:

1.  If women are to be denied protection under the law (since women don’t count as persons and since the law can only apply to persons) women must also be freed of all obligations to the law, like paying traffic fines, property taxes, and income taxes.  If we’re not part of the club, we can’t be expected to pay the dues.  If we commit violent crimes, such as assault or murder, we ought to be expect to be executed, the way dogs are put down when they turn bad, but otherwise it ought to be understood that if the law, by nature, cannot shelter us, we owe no duty to it.

2.  If women are not persons and if, consequently, our opinions, preferences, and beliefs carry no weight, women ought to be exempted from all psychological taxes; in other words, from the obligation to support and nurture strangers, acquaintances, and kin.  If we’re some sort of meaningless beings, what’s the point of gaining our support?  And if our support is valueless, why should we be required to provide it?  What sapient creature worthy of the name is better off for having secured the good opinion of a vending machine or a toaster?  Turn the question around and you’ll see that only a fool would think of courting an appliance.  Let us be held to our strict duty, whatever that is (let some reasonable assessment of our strict duty be reached) but after that duty has been performed, declare the slate clean and call the accounts even.  (Some fundamentalist/evangelical women already live by a version of this rule; they let it be understood that they’re in love with Jesus, not their husbands.)

I’m also okay with Scalia’s propositions on condition that he explain why a fetus is a person while the woman who is carrying the fetus doesn’t qualify for the same status, and that he make his explanation damned convincing.  (I wish him luck and look forward to witnessing the contortions in which he will be compelled to engage.)

Comment #33: bekabot  on  01/08  at  11:42 PM

Don’t forget the Worcester, Massachusetts Women’s Rights Convention in 1850.  The Worcester Women’s History Project did a play for the 150th anniversary of that convention (I know because I stage managed it), held in the very same hall as the convention.

Comment #34: JonG  on  01/09  at  02:33 AM

I’m just impressed that female fetuses are persons but the women carrying them aren’t.

Comment #35: Punditus Maximus  on  01/09  at  08:05 AM
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